Arnold for GOV...Again?

[99 232 baja]

So people of California what do think of your foreign born governor, has he done any good? Should he go back to movies?

[YeLLowBoaT]

Actually I think he as done a fairly good job....

[v-drive]

The guy inherited a broke state that the gov he kicked out tried to sink further in his final days. he took on an impossible task and (I feel ) is striving to make it better. Ofcourse all the armchair experts will say he's screwed but I don't see them coming up with any answers. Hell yes i'll vote for him again
v-drive

[91nordic29]

"foreign born governor" :confused:
i guess that is your real question. why not just say it?

[blackcloud75]

Actually I think he as done a fairly good job....
He has taken money(2 billion from education alone) from education and public safety without its guarranteed return. Promised to cut beneficiary benefits for public safety.
I guess he has a pretty good record!!!!!!!!!!

[bigq]

He has taken money(2 billion from education alone) from education and public safety without its guarranteed return. Promised to cut beneficiary benefits for public safety.
I guess he has a pretty good record!!!!!!!!!!
Really? Where did he take this money from? They are getting more money then the previous years.
Everyone wanted him to fix the budget, but when it came time to make cuts it is ok as long as it was not their budget.
Please don't say they need more money for education. California spends way to much already and throwing more money at the problem might make us feel better, but it is hardly the problem. :hammer2:

[Lake Ape]

It would really help if kids from Mexico weren't going to school in the US school system and returning to Mexico after school. Illegals don't pay taxes to goto school so they are riding your legal kids shirt tales...

[bigq]

It would really help if kids from Mexico weren't going to school in the US school system and returning to Mexico after school. Illegals don't pay taxes to goto school so they are riding your legal kids shirt tales...
No gevernor will touch that. :rolleyes:

[bordsmnj]

he had to make a lot of unpopular decisions. it's a thankless job but he's getting it done. a lot of different org.s i see bitch and whine about how he's ripping them off...untill u get to fine print and see he's not exactly starving people. they just don't get the whole "the state is BROKE" thing.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

He has taken money(2 billion from education alone) from education and public safety without its guarranteed return. Promised to cut beneficiary benefits for public safety.
I guess he has a pretty good record!!!!!!!!!!
Waaaaaa.....Waaaaaaaa......Waaaaaaaaa !!!!!! :cry:
I'm so tired of those BS comercials using whining teachers..... :yuk:
Education still gets more & more money each year and squanders it. :confused:
Screw your California public education system that takes more & more of my taxes each year and turn's out a sub standard product. :devil:
In the real world people are fired each day for poor performance. :idea:
Quit all you F'n whining and suck it up like the rest of us !!!! :boxed:
CJG
:coffeycup

[bigq]

First, many of those kids are legal. If you're born here, you're legal, period. Second, schools are funded from property taxes and the general fund. If you own property in CA, you pay property taxes, I don't care where you were born.
All kids born here are considered legal,but that doesn't mean the parents are. I think he was referrring to the poorer illegals, which I can't see owning property. It is a strain on the education system and the health care system in California. What makes it even harder for the kids is a lot of the parents don't know english and that makes it harder for the education to take place. :(

[Debbolas]

I like Arnold, :cool: I believe he is trying to "fix" the broken parts of our government and education. :D ...I'm very nervous about giving him "carte blanch" to fix education, I know it is broken, but it makes me nervous :squiggle:

[wsuwrhr]

The guy inherited a broke state that the gov he kicked out tried to sink further in his final days. he took on an impossible task and (I feel ) is striving to make it better. Ofcourse all the armchair experts will say he's screwed but I don't see them coming up with any answers. Hell yes i'll vote for him again
v-drive
Yep

[bigq]

Those are merely assumptions on your part.
Which part? My assumptions of what he stated?

[Third Alarm]

I am a Firefighter and my wife is a Teacher, Arni wants to deunionize all public workers. If we didn't have our unions we would be up shit creek. They fight for us and make sure we have some rights.
What has he done that has been posative change? I haven't seen it yet but I do see the possiability for alot of negative change. We are still haveing rolling blackouts!!!
Teachers have a real crappy job and now he wants teachers to get raises only if there test scores are good. Believe it or not Teachers at the end of eack school year try and balance out the class rooms with childeren that have special learning dificulties and problem childeren. Yes they trade them using cards like baseball cards, so if your child doesn't score well on test you may have a child that no teacher wants to have because they will bring down the overall score of the class and that teacher may not get a raise I call bull shit on that. My wife just got a new kid in her class one week after school has started in Mission Viejo and he doesn't speak any English and my wife and the kids in her class don't speak any Spanish. Hmmmm I wounder how his test scores will be.
And people only bitch and complain about Firefighters and Cops making too much money untill they need one. Or we have a giant disaster 9-11 or Katrina and all of a sudden we are the greatest and we don't have enough of them and we are not prepared enough.
I don't think either me or my wife make that much money in comparison to people with a lot less education behind them. We don't complain about the money we make, but please don't touch our retirement.
Jeff

[blackcloud75]

"And people only bitch and complain about Firefighters and Cops making too much money untill they need one. Or we have a giant disaster 9-11 or Katrina and all of a sudden we are the greatest and we don't have enough of them and we are not prepared enough."------------Third Alarm
Think of Public Safety as an Insurance Policy............
You hate paying for it until you really need it.

[bigq]

I am a Firefighter and my wife is a Teacher, Arni wants to deunionize all public workers. If we didn't have our unions we would be up shit creek. They fight for us and make sure we have some rights.
What has he done that has been posative change? I haven't seen it yet but I do see the possiability for alot of negative change. We are still haveing rolling blackouts!!!
Teachers have a real crappy job and now he wants teachers to get raises only if there test scores are good. Believe it or not Teachers at the end of eack school year try and balance out the class rooms with childeren that have special learning dificulties and problem childeren. Yes they trade them using cards like baseball cards, so if your child doesn't score well on test you may have a child that no teacher wants to have because they will bring down the overall score of the class and that teacher may not get a raise I call bull shit on that. My wife just got a new kid in her class one week after school has started in Mission Viejo and he doesn't speak any English and my wife and the kids in her class don't speak any Spanish. Hmmmm I wounder how his test scores will be.
And people only bitch and complain about Firefighters and Cops making too much money untill they need one. Or we have a giant disaster 9-11 or Katrina and all of a sudden we are the greatest and we don't have enough of them and we are not prepared enough.
I don't think either me or my wife make that much money in comparison to people with a lot less education behind them. We don't complain about the money we make, but please don't touch our retirement.
Jeff
When did he say he was going to "deunionize" all public workers? Has made a move to get rid of the unions?
Nothing has been written in stone in regards to performance based incentives. He has stated more than likely it will be the district or schools they initiate the outline for the compensation guideline.
Lastly, I don't know anyone that has stated you're professions are compensated to much. If anything it is not enough. I would think you would want to move you're retirement money into something you can control, something outside of state control. What happens to the retirement funds if the state goes broke?

[Kilrtoy]

For some reason there has been a growing sediment of anti-professions. More specifically Teachers, Nurses and Fireman, Most people always have disliked the Police. This gov is exploiting this idea even more. This is very confusing to me....Attack the very people who we need the most, but think the least of. More people are worried about their starbucks server or there cell phone customer service rep than their vital needs workers. As Black Cloud stated and summed it up very well
Think of Public Safety as an Insurance Policy............
You hate paying for it until you really need it

[Kilrtoy]

Nothing has been written in stone in regards to performance based incentives. He has stated more than likely it will be the district or schools they initiate the outline for the compensation guideline.
This correct , But you left out they will have to follow guidelines that he(gov) sets up
Lastly, I don't know anyone that has stated you're professions are compensated to much. If anything it is not enough.
Not in this thread, but plenty in the past have said it
I would think you would want to move you're retirement money into something you can control, something outside of state control. What happens to the retirement funds if the state goes broke?
The state does not control PERS or STERS

[bigq]

This correct , But you left out they will have to follow guidelines that he(gov) sets up
Not in this thread, but plenty in the past have said it
The state does not control PERS or STERS
So the state doesn't fund the PERS? :confused:
I can't believe anyone would think you get paid to much, but it takes all kinds.
It's not like you make enough to purchase a 26' twin OB DCB or something. :D :D Joking here :D

[MBlaster]

The school system isn't breaking Kali. It's all the free medical care for the uninsured illegal aleins, bums, and crack ho's kids .

[HM]

I am voting for Arnold.
Libs are crapping thier pants. Most of what you hear is a bunch of crap and spin. Kilrtoy is just a pawn and doesn't even know realize that it is not his job or his pay at risk, it is the guys much higher than that that are not willing to cut the fat and want to make people like Kilrtoy pay for it then get them all worked up that it is Arnold's fault.
A little common sense is all that is needed: Arnold wants to cut the police, firemen, and teachers? Yah, and I got some property in Florida I want to sell you. Luckily for the liberals, there are people stupid enough to believe it.

[99 232 baja]

This thread did exactly what I wanted it to do, it made you express your opinion. I really do not care where he came from as long as he NEVER runs for president(which he cannot do, because he is a foreigner)

[Kilrtoy]

I am voting for Arnold.
Libs are crapping thier pants. Most of what you hear is a bunch of crap and spin. Kilrtoy is just a pawn and doesn't even know realize that it is not his job or his pay at risk, it is the guys much higher than that that are not willing to cut the fat and want to make people like Kilrtoy pay for it then get them all worked up that it is Arnold's fault.
A little common sense is all that is needed: Arnold wants to cut the police, firemen, and teachers? Yah, and I got some property in Florida I want to sell you. Luckily for the liberals, there are people stupid enough to believe it.
Ok your right I have no clue and you do, What next...
YES there is way to much fat at the top and that is true in all sections of work.
Noone ever said cut the people from their postions, cut their pay and benefits, yes. Arnold wants to take a perfectly working system and turn it in the the states problem, WHY? Explain this one.....

[Rexone]

I would vote for him again. He inhereited a broke focked up mess from Davis and much of Sacramento is still in denial they need to cut back spending. Living within your means when not accustomed to it can be painful. I don't think they have a full comprehension of that yet.

[Biglue]

I am a Firefighter and my wife is a Teacher, Arni wants to deunionize all public workers. If we didn't have our unions we would be up shit creek. They fight for us and make sure we have some rights.
What has he done that has been posative change? I haven't seen it yet but I do see the possiability for alot of negative change. We are still haveing rolling blackouts!!!
Teachers have a real crappy job and now he wants teachers to get raises only if there test scores are good. Believe it or not Teachers at the end of eack school year try and balance out the class rooms with childeren that have special learning dificulties and problem childeren. Yes they trade them using cards like baseball cards, so if your child doesn't score well on test you may have a child that no teacher wants to have because they will bring down the overall score of the class and that teacher may not get a raise I call bull shit on that. My wife just got a new kid in her class one week after school has started in Mission Viejo and he doesn't speak any English and my wife and the kids in her class don't speak any Spanish. Hmmmm I wounder how his test scores will be.
And people only bitch and complain about Firefighters and Cops making too much money untill they need one. Or we have a giant disaster 9-11 or Katrina and all of a sudden we are the greatest and we don't have enough of them and we are not prepared enough.
I don't think either me or my wife make that much money in comparison to people with a lot less education behind them. We don't complain about the money we make, but please don't touch our retirement.
Jeff
Unions are money suckers now a days. I can't believe people still fall into those propagandas. They only service maybe 5 % of their members and the majority of them only get attention at contract renewal times. In the mean time you are steady paying monthly dues for nothing.........excellent investment NOT.
Ask the Supermarket folks from several months back. Better yet ask the Teamsters that should have had a fat pension form several years back. If Arnie could get them out it's a good thing. Working management can't run their business to their liking because of stuff unions impose in HIS company.
People don't seem to understand that unions can't guarantee you what the COMPANY can't afford or is not willing to provide. Just my .02.
As far as the State goes he's basically taken a broken place and getting it to function the way it was once. Shouldn't have to come out of public service folks pockets though. Cut the fat out of shit like city halls where people can piss away days without doing shit.

[Tom Brown]

I'd vote for him... for terminator. :cool:

[HM]

Arnold wants to take a perfectly working system and turn it in the the states problem, WHY? Explain this one.....
Oh please tell me you were drinking when you posted this?!?!
LMFAO!!!! Perfectly working system....oh kilr...you kill me!!!

[Kilrtoy]

Unions are money suckers now a days. I can't believe people still fall into those propagandas. They only service maybe 5 % of their members and the majority of them only get attention at contract renewal times. In the mean time you are steady paying monthly dues for nothing.........excellent investment NOT.
.
This is where you are SO WRONG.....
My 110 a month is spent very well, Granted I don't agree with everything they do... Do you have any Idea how much a GREAT lawyer cost these days...mine cost 110 a month
Do you have a boss that doesnt like you and tries to impose illegal B.S. On you.... When that happens a union rep fixes things really quick....

[Kilrtoy]

Oh please tell me you were drinking when you posted this?!?!
LMFAO!!!! Perfectly working system....oh kilr...you kill me!!!
Nope sober and yes PERS and STERS is a perfectly working system, why do you think arnie wants at it.....

[257]

This thread did exactly what I wanted it to do, it made you express your opinion. I really do not care where he came from as long as he NEVER runs for president(which he cannot do, because he is a foreigner)
Bush is from Texas is he a foreigner??? lol

[HM]

Nope sober and yes PERS and STERS is a perfectly working system, why do you think arnie wants at it.....
Whatever bud. Keep drinking that koolaid the union gives you. I drank the union koolaid and luckily I was alergic. ;)

[Kilrtoy]

Whatever bud. Keep drinking that koolaid the union gives you. I drank the union koolaid and luckily I was alergic. ;)
What union......

[HM]

1985 - 1988 Lucky Grocery - UFCW
1988 - 1990 UPS - IBT

[Biglue]

This is where you are SO WRONG.....
My 110 a month is spent very well, Granted I don't agree with everything they do... Do you have any Idea how much a GREAT lawyer cost these days...mine cost 110 a month
Do you have a boss that doesnt like you and tries to impose illegal B.S. On you.... When that happens a union rep fixes things really quick....
Cannot argue the Lawyer fees........hands down.
The one question to be considered is how often is there a need for a lawyer?
As far as me being imposed illegal deals at work, I never have experienced that. Perhaps in law enforcement that is a real worry. There are other resources for researching things I'd would be worried about.
I've had a management postion for much of my working life. Dealing with problematic employees was always hard to do.

[Froggystyle]

Do you have a boss that doesnt like you and tries to impose illegal B.S. On you...
This is where you and I disagree. It is their company, run their way. If you don't like it... leave.
Flip it around Miguel... How would you like employees who run to legal representation any time you have to make a management decision that affects their paychecks?
Employment should be a lot simpler. You are either worth what people are paying you, and everyone is happy, you are not worth what people are paying you and you are miserable while they attempt to drag the work out of you, or you are underpaid in which case you are able to leave and get a better job elsewhere getting paid what you are worth.
Inevitably, people who leave in search of better pay end up back where they started, and they find out what the market will support. Applying your skills in any business other than municipal law enforcement would land you a rent-a-cop job or a government contractor work in Iraq/Afghanistan. You would make a lot less as a rent-a-cop and a lot more as a government contractor. Short of those options, not too many people are looking for cops these days.
I know... try bringing a Navy SEAL resume to the job market. The only thing people are interested in hiring for is the discipline and drive. The ability to shoot someone in the head at 600 yards with iron sights is not particularly compelling to a fortune 500 company.

[HM]

When I worked for UPS, the union was constantly bad mouthing management and insisting they wanted to take advantage of us. My shop steward constantly harrassed me when ever I beat my route by more than 3 hours, which was almost every day, and usually like 5 hours during Christmas. I was told by several union people that I made everyone else look bad. The shop steward told me that I would not last long, and he was right. :D

[Froggystyle]

Oh... and I would vote for Arnold again, and possibly donate to his campaign this time.

[Biglue]

1985 - 1988 Lucky Grocery - UFCW
1988 - 1990 UPS - IBT
I was part of UFCW for 2 years and they actually were a burden to it's employees. I was only guaranteed 16 hours a week. Full time (regular full time employee) hadn't been heard of the whole time I was there. The only regulars were people with 10+ years there. What kind of bargaining is that? I was pissed that I was only entitled to 16-24 hours per weekly average and still had to pay union fees. They were deducted out of my check BTW. They got their taste no matter what. That is why my view of unions is what it is.

[Throttle]

I love politics...
Keep the unions strong!
Schools do not get what they have been promised for years, period (never enough)! and neither do the staff!
my opinion, u don't like it? You dont have to, thats why its mine! :devil:

[HCS]

Arnies getting my vote.

[HM]

I was part of UFCW for 2 years and they actually were a burden to it's employees. I was only guaranteed 16 hours a week. Full time (regular full time employee) hadn't been heard of the whole time I was there. The only regulars were people with 10+ years there. What kind of bargaining is that? I was pissed that I was only entitled to 16-24 hours per weekly average and still had to pay union fees. They were deducted out of my check BTW. They got their taste no matter what. That is why my view of unions is what it is.
I know exactly what you are saying. I worked night crew and they would work me 40 hours per week and then on the 3rd week or 4th week (I forget) they would cut my hours so that they would not have to make me a "full time" employee. Most people would blame management...but reality was that the union cut such great deals for the "full time" people already there that it made sense not add any more "full time" people. I would have instituted the exact same plan. That is the difference between people who know how to make money, and people who only know how to ask (or demand) money.

[Biglue]

I know exactly what you are saying. I worked night crew and they would work me 40 hours per week and then on the 3rd week or 4th week (I forget) they would cut my hours so that they would not have to make me a "full time" employee. Most people would blame management...but reality was that the union cut such great deals for the "full time" people already there that it made sense not add any more "full time" people. I would have instituted the exact same plan. That is the difference between people who know how to make money, and people who only know how to ask (or demand) money.
The only time I saw beyond 30 hours was during Holidays. And then like you said before my hours were significant enough I had a decrease in hours scheduled. I mean for a kid to work through HS or perhaps beginning of college it might work but not at 16 hours a week. Like I said If I needed a lawyer once in 5 years at $110 (Kilrs monthly union fee) a month that would equal $6600 I kept in my pocket.
Here's a thought. If union fees were no longer allowed as a write off, I guarantee more people would see the light at the end of the year.

[HM]

The only good thing I can say about the UFCW was that back then, they did not spend a bunch of time bad mouthing management and the company(times have changed!). At UPS, it was a daily ritual, not to mention every news letter and every statement was constantly taking swipes. I guess if they say it enough, they beleive it.
Unions are socialist organizations, by any definition. From mandatory enrollement to to the basic idea the "THEY" need to protect you. Yo, Louie, you give me $110 bucks, and I make sure no one kills you. Sound like a deal? Oh ya louie, I put a life insurance policy on you and I am the beneficiary...try not to get yourself killed. ;)

[Kilrtoy]

1985 - 1988 Lucky Grocery - UFCW
1988 - 1990 UPS - IBT
Ok from these unions I have no knowledge. I will also conceded that the Grocery unions SCREWED THEIR EMPLOYEE'S BIG TIME
but from the union I belong it is needed and needed badly.

[Supultlbich]

This is where you and I disagree. It is their company, run their way. If you don't like it... leave.
Flip it around Miguel... How would you like employees who run to legal representation any time you have to make a management decision that affects their paychecks?
Employment should be a lot simpler. You are either worth what people are paying you, and everyone is happy, you are not worth what people are paying you and you are miserable while they attempt to drag the work out of you, or you are underpaid in which case you are able to leave and get a better job elsewhere getting paid what you are worth.
Inevitably, people who leave in search of better pay end up back where they started, and they find out what the market will support. Applying your skills in any business other than municipal law enforcement would land you a rent-a-cop job or a government contractor work in Iraq/Afghanistan. You would make a lot less as a rent-a-cop and a lot more as a government contractor. Short of those options, not too many people are looking for cops these days.
I know... try bringing a Navy SEAL resume to the job market. The only thing people are interested in hiring for is the discipline and drive. The ability to shoot someone in the head at 600 yards with iron sights is not particularly compelling to a fortune 500 company.
I think one thing that is missing from kilr's point is that police and fire departments cant strike, and need the representation of the unions for negotiating contracts and day to day on the job grivance issues. I am not a huge fan of unions,and am aware of the downside, but I realize that as a public saftey employee I need the representation.
As far as your inability to enter the job market after your time in the Navy, the dept I work for just hired a former seal commader, and he fits right in. Teamwork, discipline, chain of command....those are all words you have heard before.

[Kilrtoy]

This is where you and I disagree. It is their company, run their way. If you don't like it... leave.
Flip it around Miguel... How would you like employees who run to legal representation any time you have to make a management decision that affects their paychecks?
Employment should be a lot simpler. You are either worth what people are paying you, and everyone is happy, you are not worth what people are paying you and you are miserable while they attempt to drag the work out of you, or you are underpaid in which case you are able to leave and get a better job elsewhere getting paid what you are worth.
Inevitably, people who leave in search of better pay end up back where they started, and they find out what the market will support. Applying your skills in any business other than municipal law enforcement would land you a rent-a-cop job or a government contractor work in Iraq/Afghanistan. You would make a lot less as a rent-a-cop and a lot more as a government contractor. Short of those options, not too many people are looking for cops these days.
I know... try bringing a Navy SEAL resume to the job market. The only thing people are interested in hiring for is the discipline and drive. The ability to shoot someone in the head at 600 yards with iron sights is not particularly compelling to a fortune 500 company.
There is actually a lot more work than what you stated paying Sickening wages, actually extremely over paid. But Im not here to discuss those jobs and they are not union jobs...
I agree you work for what you are paid and what you are doing......
My point on this is unions in my field protect you from the evils imposed on you by management. And there are many....
Granted there are lazy people also that get protection that should be gone.....
can you teach me how to shoot at 300 yards with iron sights......

[Biglue]

The only good thing I can say about the UFCW was that back then, they did not spend a bunch of time bad mouthing management and the company(times have changed!). At UPS, it was a daily ritual, not to mention every news letter and every statement was constantly taking swipes. I guess if they say it enough, they beleive it.
Unions are socialist organizations, by any definition. From mandatory enrollement to to the basic idea the "THEY" need to protect you. Yo, Louie, you give me $110 bucks, and I make sure no one kills you. Sound like a deal? Oh ya louie, I put a life insurance policy on you and I am the beneficiary...try not to get yourself killed. ;)
Not necessarily so. There is a way to refuse being a union member. It was briefly detailed in an attempted union organization of a company I worked for. But basically you were cutting your own neck if the company was union.
I worked for a company a few years ago that certain people on the floor tried to get organized. Corporate peeps paid a consultant to fight the union trying to come in. The consultant revealed that many unions were still organized crime influenced to that day.
I figured he was propaganda himself so I didn't pay him too much mind. At voting time, I made my decision based on my needs and opinions.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Ok, since I don't live in Cali, I can't vote 1 way or another.
Arnold took a horrendous mess away from Grey-out Davis. Ya just cannot spend $$ you don't have. When will Cali legislature figure that out?
Teachers .... (and schools)
Give every school, a million $ PER KID, ya know what'll happen? KIds will graduate school who CANNOT READ WELL (just like now), Kids will drop out (just like now), kids will pick on other kids untill fights (or shootings) happen (just like now), and there will be teachers who are NOT QUALIFIED TO BE ABLE TO TEACH (just like now). Money cannot and will not fix the government school system. Teachers need to be held to performance and qualification standards, Students need to be held to BEHAVIOR STANDARDS (that means "Discipline" and uniforms, when they are on school-time, they are there to LEARN, not show off their phones & flashing Reboks), School Administration (which is way to darned big), needs to be held to performance standards, PARENTS need to be held to standards. Yes, ALL Students of the US Govt School System MUST SPEAK ENGLISH PASSABLY. For NEW Imigrants, there should be a class in learning ENGLISH, NOT SCHOOL CLASSES IN THEIR NATIVE TONGUE.
Unions .....
The biggest problem with the US Govt School System is THE NEA AND THE Teacher's UNION.
1996, 2 January, I became employed at Learjet andf joined the IAMAW. I still belong, for 1 reason, the right to vote on my contracts, and to bitch about it if I get forced one I do not like (If ya didn't vote, and don't like it, shaddup).
Unions serve one purpose today, $$$ and power (for the union, not for the membership). Back from the 20's thru the 70's, I'll give them credit for fixing a lot of things. Those halcyon days of need are GONE.
I had a boss who disliked me, controll freak and my membership in the Air Natl Guard bugged him because he could put me on all the overtime he wanted EXCEPT for 1 weekend a month and my AT time when I would not be at work and he could do nothing about it. We buted heads in front of HR one day over a related subject adn I not only read him company policy, read him sections of US Code Title 8, Title 10, and part of the SSRA explaining to him just what leave time I could and COULD NOT BE REQUIRED to take. No, I was not friendly, no, I did not swear, Decorum was maintained, the HR guy (worthless moron) became scared shi+less, my union steward just stood by quietly (un-needed), Danny-boy shrunk back into his chair, and we adjuorned. After that, he NEVER ONCE gave me a problem of attitude (yes, I still had a JAG office up my sleeve.
My union, has the most of it's time spent saving hacks and lazy bastard's jobs. Right now I could name off 10 to 15 people out of a department of 45 who SHOULD NOT BE BEING PAID $15 PER HOUR (or working on aircraft period) because they either do very little or tear up anything they touch. The company can't fire them unless they get in attendance trouble or get written up enough times (none are stupid enough to comit a really egregious mistake). I know of 1 guy (this past spring), caught ASLEEP ATOP A PLANE IN A FALL HARNESS, they went to HR, and he said he had been PRAYING. He IS a religious "zealot" (no, that is not used as a swear, but he does constantly listen to radio preaching, makes a LOT of scriptural references, nice guy but you know the type). He is also black so you can insert here any corporate concerns over EEO filings. This guy can spend 6 hours just researching a job that I can research in 20 min and DO IN 2 HOURS.
One of them (we'll use the comon moniker "Bob" so as to not reveal his identity) (no he doesn't post here, may not be able to run a computer), recently told me that a time study was going on in the department and to make sure I "filled in" all my allotted hours for the jobs I was doing. I asked him "Didn't such activity constitute an illegal work slowdown/strike?" Told him to check Article 32 of the contract, which defines such as in immediate termination offence, and gently advised him to let anyone he knows that might do such a thing to be VERY CAREFUL.
Useless focker hasn't spoken to me again for weeks. I realixed what a hack HE was when I had to read and explain a blueprint to him last spring. He's been building airplanes longer than I have. He took 4 days to do a job I would have accomplished in 1.
I've quit jobs for $$$, I've quit jobs due to jackas$$ bosses, and never once looked back. It was always for the better.
I needed union representation precisely 1 time since I went to war from 11Sep 2001 till 3Aug 2003, 3 weeks after going back to work. The union (made a mistake) pulled 22 1/2 MONTHS of dues out of my check for the time I was gone, unpaid, "back-dues". Yes, they propmptly cut me a check that afternoon after I had a 1 minuite conversation with the plant chairman (allllllllll the way to the top).
Yes, I am in a union, no, I do not support them. If you are in a union, fine, if you like it, great, If you are in, and don't like it, leave if you want. I have my reasons not to.

[Biglue]

I think one thing that is missing from kilr's point is that police and fire departments cant strike, and need the representation of the unions for negotiating contracts and day to day on the job grivance issues. I am not a huge fan of unions,and am aware of the downside, but I realize that as a public saftey employee I need the representation.
As far as your inability to enter the job market after your time in the Navy, the dept I work for just hired a former seal commader, and he fits right in. Teamwork, discipline, chain of command....those are all words you have heard before.
There is actually a lot more work than what you stated paying Sickening wages, actually extremely over paid. But Im not here to discuss those jobs and they are not union jobs...
I agree you work for what you are paid and what you are doing......
My point on this is unions in my field protect you from the evils imposed on you by management. And there are many....
Granted there are lazy people also that get protection that should be gone.....
can you teach me how to shoot at 300 yards with iron sights......
A question for you both. Would the city play a role in defending you in certain deals like law suits or is the union paying for legal representation? Kilr you being a LEO I know thats reality.
Kilr when you say management imposed. Are you being tasked to walk on a legal line with your job duties? If so what are some examples?

[Froggystyle]

There is actually a lot more work than what you stated paying Sickening wages, actually extremely over paid. But Im not here to discuss those jobs and they are not union jobs...
I realize I was being simplistic, but just stating a point. Specific professions have specific options generally. I know ten people with degrees in marine biology working in retail. Tough to get one of the 10 jobs in marine biology...
can you teach me how to shoot at 300 yards with iron sights......
My pleasure... anytime.

[Kilrtoy]

A question for you both. Would the city play a role in defending you in certain deals like law suits or is the union paying for legal representation? Kilr you being a LEO I know thats reality.
Kilr when you say management imposed. Are you being tasked to walk on a legal line with your job duties? If so what are some examples?
The government only defends you incases they see fit. Ask the four defendants in the King case. You need lawyers to protect you from management in addition to the general public.
I will not cite, cases nor facts of cases, there is plenty on the web you can read the legal findings.
When a civil case is brought against you, the department does not and will not cover you.....

[advantage21]

Lets Not Forget Vehicle Reg I Am Sure If We Get Some Other Bonehead In Office We Are Sure Screwed There . He's Got My Vote
I Think He's Doing A Good Job For The Circumstance That He Tookover.

[HM]

Ok from these unions I have no knowledge. I will also coceded that the Grocery unions SCREWED THEIR EMPLOYEE'S BIG TIME
but from the union I belong it is needed and needed badly.
I have no knowledge of your union either. I just don't like them period, but I would also never be a cop on purpose. Wearing a uniform everyday would just take the edge off of Friday night dressup with the wife. Did I say that outloud? :D
Unions operate based on the assumption that management is trying to fock you, you need them for protection from management. Their existance creates a hostile environment of us against them and perpetuates their need of existance. The people who typically benefit the most from the unions are the least productive people of society. I guess unions help keep employment opportunities open for these morons as there are only so many goverment jobs to go around...and a union job within a government job? Fricken payday for these losers!

[Biglue]

The government only defends you incases they see fit. Ask the four defendants in the King case. You need lawyers to protect you from management in addition to the general public.
I will not cite, cases nor facts of cases, there is plenty on the web you can read the legal findings.
When a civil case is brought against you, the department does not and will not cover you.....
Fair enough.
Perhaps their is a need for legal rep for you. Maybe your union is somewhat better than the average.........I dunno. Thay have been burdonsome in my job positions held hence my opinion. The other thing is that for all the union fees people pay monthly. The people on the recieving end of those fess are living far fatter than you and I. There is an agency that deatails those facts. I can't remember what they are called.

[Kilrtoy]

Lets Not Forget Vehicle Reg I Am Sure If We Get Some Other Bonehead In Office We Are Sure Screwed There . He's Got My Vote
I Think He's Doing A Good Job For The Circumstance That He Tookover.
That is a correct statement....
NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Those fees have been in place before most of us even owned or drove a car and yes im reffering to all of you even in your 60's...
Most people never realized how expensive it was to register a car. Of course we all started to realizethis fact, when we started buying cars that cost 40, 50, 60 and 70k.....
Gray Davis may not have even been born when those fees were implemented by the state :hammer2: :hammer2: :hammer2: :hammer2: :hammer2:

[Kilrtoy]

I have no knowledge of your union either. I just don't like them period, but I would also never be a cop on purpose. Wearing a uniform everyday would just take the edge off of Friday night dressup with the wife. Did I say that outloud? :D
I can hook you up on some authentic stuff to make it more realistic for you guys LOL
Unions operate based on the assumption that management is trying to fock you, you need them for protection from management. Their existance creates a hostile environment of us against them and perpetuates their need of existance. The people who typically benefit the most from the unions are the least productive people of society. I guess unions help keep employment opportunities open for these morons as there are only so many goverment jobs to go around...and a union job within a government job? Fricken payday for these losers!
:D :D :D
yes I already agreed they do protect these people and that is a down side,

[HM]

I can hook you up on some authentic stuff to make it more realistic for you guys LOL
:D :D :D
:D :D :D

[Kilrtoy]

HOT LOOKING CHICKS dig these
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/111Picture020.JPG

[HM]

HOT LOOKING CHICKS dig these
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/111Picture020.JPG
LOL. Got a glue-on mustache to go with those?

[Throttle]

[QUOTE=Biglue]A question for you both. Would the city play a role in defending you in certain deals like law suits or is the union paying for legal representation? QUOTE]
union pays for representation... Supultlbich along with a few others around here work for an agency that that several cities contract services. Short end to your answer is NO, I am not aware of any city backing us up for anything. Maybe if we were city employees??? Still NOT! associations/unions are a must in our business. There is no room for mistakes, and unfortunately if one is made I do not plan on waitin on some city to say it will be okay!
I strongly think a city would F the employee at any chance...

[Throttle]

Lets Not Forget Vehicle Reg I Am Sure If We Get Some Other Bonehead In Office We Are Sure Screwed There . He's Got My Vote
I Think He's Doing A Good Job For The Circumstance That He Tookover.
how many vehicles do you own? get ready to pay up.

[Throttle]

I have no knowledge of your union either. I just don't like them period, but I would also never be a cop on purpose. Wearing a uniform everyday would just take the edge off of Friday night dressup with the wife. Did I say that outloud? :D
Unions operate based on the assumption that management is trying to fock you, you need them for protection from management. Their existance creates a hostile environment of us against them and perpetuates their need of existance. The people who typically benefit the most from the unions are the least productive people of society. I guess unions help keep employment opportunities open for these morons as there are only so many goverment jobs to go around...and a union job within a government job? Fricken payday for these losers!
strongly disagree, add this to your list of assumptions, to help provide you and your family with the safety it relies on - politics, legislation.

[Kilrtoy]

I Think He's Doing A Good Job For The Circumstance That He Tookover.
lets not forget the pile of crap Gray took over from PETE wilson...
How soon we forget the 61 days without a budget and the state paid warrants(IOU'S) instead of money to its employees and credit holders...
:hammer2:
We can say this about EVERY Gov. that takes office....

[HM]

strongly disagree, add this to your list of assumptions, to help provide you and your family with the safety it relies on - politics, legislation.
I don't rely on politics and legislation, I adjust for it. Unions have only held me back and actually put a target on me because I did not conform to the socialist views nor did I believe their scare tactics.
You did make a good point about the city wanting to f their employees if they could. But then, I would never be a city employee on purpose. I am odd...if I don't like a job or they don't pay me enough (in my mind) I leave. I was raised in an atmosphere that emphasized self preservation and not to depend on anyone or anything to take care of you; Security and safety are not guaranteed, and the more they guaranty it, the more likely it will not be there.

[Throttle]

I don't rely on politics and legislation, I adjust for it. Unions have only held me back and actually put a target on me because I did not conform to the socialist views nor did I believe their scare tactics.
You did make a good point about the city wanting to f their employees if they could. But then, I would never be a city employee on purpose. I am odd...if I don't like a job or they don't pay me enough (in my mind) I leave. I was raised in an atmosphere that emphasized self preservation and not to depend on anyone or anything to take care of you; Security and safety are not guaranteed, and the more they guaranty it, the more likely it will not be there.
you dont rely on the politics and legislation but you do rely on your local police and fire agencies to provide services for you. If it were not for the politics and legislation you probably would not have the services you have today, nor the requirements of the personnel providing them for you. depends on who you want showing up to your emergency?
I do not work for a city, however the agency I do work for collects $$$ from more than 20 cities to pay for fire services. The size of our organization is probably the 3rd or 4th largest in the state and we rely on our locals heavily!
Maybe you are not interested in the daily attire, but I proudly wear mine for our communities that rely on us.
back to the point of the thread, arnold? He will go before our local does!

[MBlaster]

The school system isn't breaking Kali. It's all the free medical care for the uninsured illegal aleins, bums, crack ho's and all their kids .

[Third Alarm]

For most of the replys that I have read people are against unions in the public sector but for most Police, Firefighters and Teachers we want them and we like them. My union dues are $38.00 a month. Every fire sticker on the back of cars are a representation of the agency and our union. We must like it or there wouldn't be any stickers.
Every time we go to negotitations our city bold face lies to us that they have no money. So then we need to hire a Lawyer to fight for us and SHOW ME THE MONEY, and they always find millions of dollars every time.
If cities truly negotiated fairly then I would agree with the public sector.
Our retirement is private and that is what Arnie hates because it has done so well that he is looking at it for another source of income for this state.
I wish that I could video tape a typcal medical aid that we go on to show a huge waste of money. Aprox 50% of our patients wip out medical cards like its real insurance and its FREE. Why do you think there are so many hospital E.R.s closing. People don't need to have a stong work ethic if they can sit home and watch Springer for free. Stop funding lazy people and stop the Illegals.
Jeff

[Jyruiz]

Unfortunately we live in a time were people believe everything they see on TV. I am voting for Arnold again, and my wife is a teacher.

[Supultlbich]

[QUOTE=HolyMoly]I have no knowledge of your union either. I just don't like them period, but I would also never be a cop on purpose. Wearing a uniform everyday would just take the edge off of Friday night dressup with the wife. Did I say that outloud? :D
Unions operate based on the assumption that management is trying to fock you, you need them for protection from management. Their existance creates a hostile environment of us against them and perpetuates their need of existance. The people who typically benefit the most from the unions are the least productive people of society. I guess unions help keep employment opportunities open for these morons as there are only so many goverment jobs to go around...and a union job within a government job? Fricken payday for these losers![/QUOTE
Let me get this straight," the least productive members of society" so you just told every cop and fireman on this forum, that we fall into this stereotype?? Prety elequent man. By the way, the next time your ass is in trouble, and you need help, or better yet a family member is sick or injured, be sure to call the folks that show up losers and unproductive members of society. It will realy go over well, but be sure they will do their jobs, even risk their lives to make sure you and your family are safe. But then again they are all just losers.

[v-drive]

I know, ask all of the union employees what the union did for them when Boeing moved Douglas to Washington and Kansas...v-drive

[Kilrtoy]

I know, ask all of the union employees what the union did for them when Boeing moved Douglas to Washington and Kansas...v-drive
Nothing for me, I dont work there.... :hammer2:

[blackcloud75]

HOT LOOKING CHICKS dig these
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/111Picture020.JPG
They prefer these.............http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1453100_0741.JPG

[Kilrtoy]

Little girls like those, WOMEN prefer DEHNER'S

[Third Alarm]

Well I guess us lazy worhtless people are lucky that Arnies new popularity pole just now came back at 36% :jawdrop:
Can you say BYE, BYE Arnie :shift:

[blackcloud75]

Little girls like those, WOMEN prefer DEHNER'S
your right.......
I forgot the suspenders!!!!!!!!!!!

[Supultlbich]

your right.......
I forgot the suspenders!!!!!!!!!!!
But wouldnt they look better next to a Red Fire engine :D :D

[Throttle]

But wouldnt they look better next to a Red Fire engine :D :D
like dis one?
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/505/2610000_0126-med.JPG

[YeLLowBoaT]

Well I guess us lazy worhtless people are lucky that Arnies new popularity pole just now came back at 36% :jawdrop:
Can you say BYE, BYE Arnie :shift:
so who would you want to run for gov?

[Kilrtoy]

so who would you want to run for gov?
That is the $1,000,000.00 question.....NOT arnie is a good start....
the only other person that comes to mind that is F@@@ED up Like arnie is
ROY ROMER... Im sure some Colorado people will concur...

[Kilrtoy]

so who would you want to run for gov?
Richard Riodan.......but he is getting too damn old

[blackcloud75]

like dis one?
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/505/2610000_0126-med.JPG
It normally would be red....reserves are yellow.
Westminister guys?????A bunch of good friends work down that way.

[Throttle]

It normally would be red....reserves are yellow.
Westminister guys?????A bunch of good friends work down that way.
yeah, worked on a relief rig yesterday (white). This pic just happens to be one of our newest in the past few months.

[Brooski]

It normally would be red....reserves are yellow.
Does that mean Ventura County Fire is manned completely by reserves? :eek:
VC Fire's entire fleet is yellow. They wanted to be different than the the City FDs within the County.
Terminate the Terminator!

[blackcloud75]

Does that mean Ventura County Fire is manned completely by reserves? :eek:
VC Fire's entire fleet is yellow. They wanted to be different than the the City FDs within the County.
Terminate the Terminator!
Not VCFD, our reserve(old) apparatus are yellow, front-line rigs are red

[Kilrtoy]

Never knew FD's had reserves...

[blackcloud75]

Never knew FD's had reserves...
reserve(old) apparatus i.e.: back-up, throw down, or kawasaki

[Kilrtoy]

THIS WHY YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE PD OR FD, MOST PEOPLE WOULD NEVER DREAM OF DOING THIS FOR 1,000,000.00 ONE TIME, LET ALONE 20 BUCKS AN HOURS
Sergeant Denny Galloway
San Jacinto County Constable's Office - Precinct 2
Texas
End of Watch: Thursday, September 15, 2005
Biographical Info
Age: 34
Tour of Duty: 11 yrs
Badge Number: Not available
Incident Details
Cause of Death: Drowned
Date of Incident: Thursday, September 15, 2005
Weapon Used: Not available
Suspect Info: Not available
Sergeant Denny Galloway drowned while attempting to rescue a man from the Trinity River.
The man, a U.S. Marine Corps service member who had just returned from serving in Iraq, had attempted to rescue a woman and child from the river when he too became caught in its current.
Upon arriving at the scene, Sergeant Galloway immediately entered the water in an attempt to save the man. Both Sergeant Galloway and the man became caught in debris and the rough currents and drowned. The woman and child were rescued.
Sergeant Galloway had served with the San Jacinto County Constable's Office for 11 years. He is survived by his wife.
Agency Contact Information
San Jacinto County Constable's Office - Precinct 2
P. O. Box 1603
Shepherd, TX 77371
Phone: (936) 628-6833
* Please contact the agency for funeral information

[blackcloud75]

Bag-Pipes........
Kiss the wife and kids....
....when you leave for duty
....when you come home from duty

[riverfamily]

QUOTE from Throttle "keep the unions strong! schools do not get enough! (never enough!) Holy crap that is so dumb, you may believe schools do not get enough $, thats your opinion but that "NEVER ENOUGH" is total union BS! Thats the TAKE TAKE TAKE attitude of the majority of union members. You guys think unions are so great? why dont you do a quick check and find out how many of the HOT BOAT MANUFACTURES are union shops? How about none! Why? its called being competitive and being able to control cost for what the market will bear. The state and the cities are now having a big problem, for years they have gone to the public and gotten higer taxes to pay for everything they wanted. But now the public is saying "IT IS ENOUGH! LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS!" And Kilrtoy PERS is not a perfect system, it may be to you but not the the rest of the free world. It is not self sufficent it requires the state to pay into it and the problem is it will go broke if some changes are not made ( either higer taxes or reduced benifits for future employees ) Something has to be done, what? I dont know but it will have to be a compromise. Oh 1 more thing Arnolds 36% approval rating Yea Im really worried about that! wasn't it one of those polls and the LA Times that had Cruz Bustamecha running neck and neck with Arnold at one time?

[Kilrtoy]

QUOTE from Throttle "keep the unions strong! schools do not get enough! (never enough!) Holy crap that is so dumb, you may believe schools do not get enough $, thats your opinion but that "NEVER ENOUGH" is total union BS! Thats the TAKE TAKE TAKE attitude of the majority of union members. You guys think unions are so great? why dont you do a quick check and find out how many of the HOT BOAT MANUFACTURES are union shops? How about none! Why? its called being competitive and being able to control cost for what the market will bear. The state and the cities are now having a big problem, for years they have gone to the public and gotten higer taxes to pay for everything they wanted. But now the public is saying "IT IS ENOUGH! LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS!" And Kilrtoy PERS is not a perfect system, it may be to you but not the the rest of the free world. It is not self sufficent it requires the state to pay into it and the problem is it will go broke if some changes are not made ( either higer taxes or reduced benifits for future employees ) Something has to be done, what? I dont know but it will have to be a compromise. Oh 1 more thing Arnolds 36% approval rating Yea Im really worried about that! wasn't it one of those polls and the LA Times that had Cruz Bustamecha running neck and neck with Arnold at one time?
Oh here we go.....
It is not perfect, but 100 times better than a 401K and that is what ARNOLD is attempting to shove down our throats.
PERS has been around along time and worked GREAT... It is BIG governments fault things are failing....
Dont place the burden on the worker bee's backs.....

[blackcloud75]

kilr check pm's

[Throttle]

[QUOTE=riverfamily]QUOTE from Throttle "keep the unions strong! schools do not get enough! (never enough!) Holy crap that is so dumb, you may believe schools do not get enough $, thats your opinion but that "NEVER ENOUGH" is total union BS! Thats the TAKE TAKE TAKE attitude of the majority of union members. You guys think unions are so great? why dont you do a quick check and find out how many of the HOT BOAT MANUFACTURES are union shops? How about none! Why? its called being competitive and being able to control cost for what the market will bear. The state and the cities are now having a big problem, for years they have gone to the public and gotten higer taxes to pay for everything they wanted. But now the public is saying "IT IS ENOUGH! LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS!" QUOTE]
wastin my time...
do you have kids in school? chances are that your childrens teacher (s) probably spends as much or more time with them than you do. Would it make any sense to take care of the issues that are being heard throughout the state from you school districts and thier needs?
as for a union boat manufactuer? what are you even talkin about? get outa here. no way is that even compare to what we have been talkin about.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Miguel, BlackCloud, Throttle and the rest of you guys that all HATE! Arnold...
You just hate him because of what you think YOU may lose !!!!
You just care about yourselves.....your standard of living, your peeps....
That must be nice to be able to do that!!!!!
I, like Arnold, need to think of OTHER people all day long.....
The decisions I make all day as a business owner mostly affect my employees more than me !!!.....
You guy's would rather have that piece of SHIAT! Gray Davis in, or someone like him, no matter how bad he was, just as long as YOU guys made out OK.
It comes down to this.....The needs of the many out weigh the needs of a few......
You guys are no better than the UAW idiots in Detroit, they would rather trash a whole plant and watch it go under than agree to cutting some jobs and reducing some pay & bennies to save the plant....
What sense does that make......
Kilr.....We have debated this same point many times.....
Why is it so bad that things change ???? We have already figured out that things are not working the way it is ????
As far as the teachers go......How many times do we have to hear that the teachers are getting screwed by getting less money......They get a bigger budget each and every year, why can't they be honest and say....yep!...we got more money than last year....and a bunch more that two years ago....
How many people are forced to run a household on the same money each year regardless of inflation.....or even on less money than the year before.....Huh?
Like I said above, If many of those teachers worked in the private sector they'd be fired for poor performance......
I don't agree with everything that Arnold's doing, in fact think he's a pussy on some stuff, but when I look at what the State needs, I say he's doing a damn fine job.
If I was to act like you bunch, I would say "Fire that A-Hole" cause' he won't lower the Corporate income tax so I can make more money and look out for my own future.....
Doesn't that sound about right ????....It's all about you guy's.....
Not about what's good for the whole State.....
Arnolds got my vote......
AND....as far a bye-bye Arnold......Not a chance.....He'll be "baaaaaaack"
Also for the record.....you public service guy's do a fine job.....I respect you...
Just don't puss out and leave when the shiat hit's the fan like your brothers did in New Orleans......
I'd be interested to hear you speak up about those cowards.....
Later Boy's
CJG
:wink:

[Kilrtoy]

Miguel,
You just hate him because of what you think YOU may lose !!!!
YES my old years of relaxing enjoyment
You just care about yourselves.....your standard of living, your peeps....
Well, this would be true, but what di we give up for the future we may never see.
You guy's would rather have that piece of SHIAT! Gray Davis in, or someone like him, no matter how bad he was, just as long as YOU guys made out OK.
CHRIS, I probably make in ONE YEAR what you make in TWO MONTHS and you make that off GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS, so what now
You guys are no better than the UAW idiots in Detroit, they would rather trash a whole plant and watch it go under than agree to cutting some jobs and reducing some pay & bennies to save the plant....
Now you have crossed the line, I save lives almost every day, maybe even a few times a day I have no clue, BUT THAT IS A BULLSHIT EXAMPLE
What sense does that make........
I have no clue, you said it
Kilr.....We have debated this same point many times.....:
yes we have and i still make double digit an hour wages while you make TRIPLE digit an hour wages, SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

mmmmmm WTF

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

[QUOTE]
do you have kids in school? chances are that your childrens teacher (s) probably spends as much or more time with them than you do. Would it make any sense to take care of the issues that are being heard throughout the state from you school districts and thier needs?
Well.....
I do !!!
AND....I am glad to pay about $900 a month for private school.
Like I've posted before........Why would you send your most prized posessions into a WAR ZONE (Average Public School) each day.....
If many parents could see the results that see each year from private school, they'd find the money somewhere.......
Structured......repeatable......and results driven......just like the private sector.......Make the grade or ship out.......
Your also correct.....Many people DON'T spend enough time with their kids... That's sad......I for one am not one of them.....
Later,
CJG
:cool:

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT
The point is.......
Hey....your still a nice guy.....for a Socialist that is.......and I respect what you do....WackerBoy!!!!
Are you out here in Havi right now ????
One of the best days of the whole Summer......
Give Yvonne a squeeze.....
Later,
CJG
;)

[Kilrtoy]

If I was to act like you bunch, I would say "Fire that A-Hole" cause' he won't lower the Corporate income tax so I can make more money and look out for my own future.....
WHY would you...
YOU ARE LIVING LIKE A KING OFF THE LAPD CONTRACTS
Doesn't that sound about right ????....It's all about you guy's......
If it was not for the stupid people in charge of the GOV, how much would you really be worth
AND....as far a bye-bye Arnold......Not a chance.....He'll be "baaaaaaack"
Also for the record.....you public service guy's do a fine job.....I respect you...
Just don't puss out and leave when the shiat hit's the fan like your brothers did in New Orleans......
I'd be interested to hear you speak up about those cowards.....
YEAH, because if we didnt complain , You would make no money...
Sounds like you are creating your own bank acount here...
OH BYE THE WAY THE RADIO ,MDT, TELEPHONE and whatever else you provide sucks, yes IT SUCKS....
:[/QUOTE]

[Kilrtoy]

The point is.......
Hey....your still a nice guy.....for a Socialist that is.......and I respect what you do....WackerBoy!!!!
Are you out here in Havi right now ????
One of the best days of the whole Summer......
Give Yvonne a squeeze.....
Later,
CJG
;)
YES I AM and I know you do, I wish I could , But she is at work, because of BUDGET CUTS, yes at work because my pay check does not cut it anymore...
HI ARNOLD, YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBER ASSHOLE

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

CHRIS, I probably make in ONE YEAR what you make in TWO MONTHS and you make that off GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS, so what now
Yea?....
Miguel?
What's that got to do with it ????
That's MY opportunity.....To win or to lose.....
I have to bid for and fight for each contract I get......
It's not easy......There are many....many....many....less qualified, minority or women owned business that I have to contend with each day.....Believe me....Govenmnent work is some of the most BS work we do....
I just refuse to lose money at it....in spite of them.....I just get the work in the end because I CAN DO what I say I CAN DO........many others can't.
Yes......I am very fortunate.....I am blessed enough to remember that each day....REALLY I DO !!!!
BUT!.....There have been many times over the past 15 years that I have been self-empoyed that I have spent the entire night, or week, or month of nights staring at the ceiling, because I was just about out of business.....
It's my gamble.........I make my own destiny.........
I get paid on MY performance......NO PERFORMANCE.....NO MONEY!!!!
Believe me.....It's not always fun being on the sharp end of the stick every day, but just like you.....I wouldn't have it any other way.......
BTW.......my 401K is doing JUST fine thanks.......
Later,
CJG
:D

[Kilrtoy]

Yea?....
Miguel?
What's that got to do with it ????
That's MY opportunity.....To win or to lose.....
I have to bid for and fight for each contract I get......
It's not easy......There are many....many....many....less qualified, minority or women owned business that I have to contend with each day.....Believe me....Govenmnent work is some of the most BS work we do....
I just refuse to lose money at it....in spite of them.....I just get the work in the end because I CAN DO what I say I CAN DO........many others can't.
Yes......I am very fortunate.....I am blessed enough to remember that each day....REALLY I DO !!!!
BUT!.....There have been many times over the past 15 years that I have been self-empoyed that I have spent the entire night, or week, or month of nights staring at the ceiling, because I was just about out of business.....
It's my gamble.........I make my own destiny.........
I get paid on MY performance......NO PERFORMANCE.....NO MONEY!!!!
Believe me.....It's not always fun being on the sharp end of the stick every day, but just like you.....I wouldn't have it any other way.......
BTW.......my 401K is doing JUST fine thanks.......
Later,
CJG
:D
With that I will not take you down to L2R's point of view and yes, I understand what you are saying, but to say we are all , not worth the money is bullshit...
I think you know I hold back on my job description, as I do not need to brag, I know what I do and so do you. But to place our pensions and health benifits on the line is BULLSHIT...
Lets look at the problem
ILLEGAL AILENS, THAT IS THE PROBLEM

[Brooski]

Miguel, BlackCloud, Throttle and the rest of you guys that all HATE! Arnold...
You just hate him because of what you think YOU may lose !!!!
And you like him because you think of what YOU may lose when he goes away.
You just care about yourselves.....your standard of living, your peeps.... And arent you like most business owners in business to improve your standard of living?....and take care of yourself and your family? We have the same goal.
I, like Arnold, need to think of OTHER people all day long..... Problem is, most of us have to think about others, no matter what class. Arnold is looking out for the rich, not the hard working blue collar workers in this state.
Also for the record.....you public service guy's do a fine job.....I respect you...
Just don't puss out and leave when the shiat hit's the fan like your brothers did in New Orleans......
I'd be interested to hear you speak up about those cowards.....
I dont believe calling them cowards is called for until we here what actually happened to those folks. New Orleans Police Chief said its not that they walked off the job. They never showed up after the flooding started. Many of their houses are under water. He even said that many of them may be dead, along with their families. Disregarding that, I would bet you would put your family first before your job. But then again, I dont know you. Just a normal human reaction.
Terminate the Terminator!

[blackcloud75]

Just don't puss out and leave when the shiat hit's the fan like your brothers did in New Orleans......
Apples vs. Oranges
Would you be an effective/productive employee knowing your life's possessions were flushed?
Would you still remain at your post or would you ensure the safety and well being of loved ones?
Totally different shiat, should've used a better reference

[Tom Brown]

Isn't Gary Coleman running on a pro-union platform and vowing to pump more money into the public sector? :idea:

[riverfamily]

Throttle sorry you cant make the connection re: union boat manufactures I forgot your in the public sector and dont know anything about profit and loss or a hard cap budget. And yes I do have kids in the public school system ( but no the teachers do not see them more than I ) and I'll even go one more and say some should be getting paid more $, but some should also be getting paid less. The thing you guys will not look at is BENIFITS, they have no cost health insurance for them AND their families weather they have 1 kid or 10 kids no cost to them. Well guess what that all adds cost to state for that employee. Let me explain it to you this way maybe you will understand. lets say you want to hire a teacher for 35kyr. ( dont give me your they dont make that much bs I know 2 that make over 50kyr ) Its not 35k a year, see you have to pay taxes on that teacher (taxes dont just come out of your check some are matched dollar for dollar by your employer), workers comp, sick and vacation (you have to pay the sub when when they are out) oh yea state disablility insurance, unemployment insurance, employment training tax (my personal favorite and a couple others I cant think of right now that you as a employee dont even know exist because we as employers have to pay them. (also read state) then there are the benifits such as health insurance, dental, optical, perscription, etc. for the whole family. The medical insurance alone for a family of 4 is 9000.00 per year and that is coverage no where near as good as state employees( it has co-pays itc.) so that teacher is actually costing closer to 62 to 70k per year. so here is the thing to ponder --- teacher A is single, her class as a whole improves evey year, she never calls in sick, etc. etc. then teacher B is married with 4 kids ( her insurance cost to the state is triple what A is) her class does poorly and she calls in sick the max every year, she has a bad attitude etc.etc. she costs the state more and you cant get rid of her because the union protects her. I have no problem with state employees getting coverage for themselves but there should be some cost paid by the employee for dependants etc. there needs to be some cost controls! now or later something has to change Im already afraid of the day that I will have to look my son in the eyes and explain to him how we all screwed this state up so bad that he is going to pay 60% of his hard earned $ to taxes and live in a 2bed 1 bath shack in compton for 1.2mil.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Riverfamily....
Do you have something against the "Paragraph"???? :idea:
Hehe!!! :p
Later,
CJG
:cool:

[ROZ]

Our school systems suck. I have 6 teachers in my family who are all employeed by the california schools. Their job is tough because everyone involved in the beurocratic red tape (from principals to schoolboards and from unions to the state capitol) has completely fk'd the system up. School districts throughout this state are bankrupt because of the haneous decisions and actions taken from ereryone above the teacher's heads... For those who say students here illeagaly from any country doesn't impact, think again...
The system is a disgrace... Fortunately the elementary school my daughter goes to, though under funded, is a recognized school. The principal is good and has a staff that believes in him and it shows. Reguardless, 3rd grade is our cut off.. Our daughter will go to private school from the 4th grade on...
BTW, the Children of the 6 teachers in my family ALL went to private schools... That itself should tell ya how well the system works.
I don't know enough about the oplice, fire, and nurse unions to comment, but I will say that those making decisions for them aren't necessarily making them for them...
Have a good day :)

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Lets look at the problem
IT"S THE MEXICANS THAT IS THE PROBLEM
WHY do you always gotta bring the Beaners into it !!!!!
:D

[dc96819]

I would vote Arnold again.Someone needs to address unpopular decisions.
Companys need to get control of some Unions.
Only unions members tell me, its not my job or get
caught sleeping and not get fired.The screwups need them the most.
Theres 2 screwups for every 10 employees of what i see.Iam not saying
there all screwups just that its obvious in unions. :notam:

[blackcloud75]

Shaken,
Hypothetical- Trying to grasp the white collar view:
What would you do if every single employee of your company wanted to organize a union?
Would you fire all of them? Or you would you have a "meet and confer" to come to some sort of mutual agreement?

[riverfamily]

I am a graduatuate or//of our publics skool scstm.LOL!

[ROZ]

Sorry, got off topic :rolleyes:
Would I vote for Arnold again, I don't know.... Some of the crap he spews is good, but some of it is way the heck out there... Just like all politicians :D

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

WHY do you always gotta bring the Beaners into it !!!!!
:D
oooooo WTF here we go again
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1616Holeshit_KKK_.jpg

[blackcloud75]

I am a graduatuate or//of our publics skool scstm.LOL!
classic!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Shaken,
Hypothetical- Trying to grasp the white collar view:
What would you do if every single employee of your company wanted to organize a union?
Would you fire all of them? Or you would you have a "meet and confer" to come to some sort of mutual agreement?
Well.....
First.....I would never have that problem......
They all get paid well.......including health care, company trucks, 2 weeks bonus pay at Christmas, paid vacation, plus a paid day off for each 10 nights away from home, plus 3 paid rain days a year (I know...SoCal?).....
But......To answer your question......I would shut the whole thing down and start over.......It's not worth being put through that BS......
I would NEVER be held hostage......from anyone.......
He'll we've fired paying CUSTOMERS for pulling BS, taking any shiat from well paid employees in unacceptable......
If they want to run the show and be the CEO......Then let them go out and do it !!!
CJG
;)

[riverfamily]

A good intelligent friend of mine (intelligent because he got the hell out of cali. and completly retired(with his investments and 401k) at 55. Once told me that 25% of the people in the U.S. are complete and utter morons, and right now we have 6% unemployment. ----------YOU FIGURE IT OUT------------

[blackcloud75]

Shaken,
Thanks for the honesty I know it's not only your family you lookout for.
Just Curious,
Cory

[blackcloud75]

Once told me that 25% of the people in the U.S. are complete and utter morons, and right now we have 6% unemployment. ----------YOU FIGURE IT OUT------------
Your right!
They write all our study material to the second grade reading level with lots of pictures. Not to mention, they tell us how everything is to be done. This hand goes here, this hand goes there.
Brain Surgery I tell ya'

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

G'nite boys......or err....I mean Good Morning !!!!!
CJG
:wink:

[C-2]

You did make a good point about the city wanting to f their employees if they could. But then, I would never be a city employee on purpose. I am odd...if I don't like a job or they don't pay me enough (in my mind) I leave. I was raised in an atmosphere that emphasized self preservation and not to depend on anyone or anything to take care of you; Security and safety are not guaranteed, and the more they guaranty it, the more likely it will not be there.
Exactly. Shaken is also making some excellent points.
My wife is a union employee and I'm not sure I would vote for Arnie, so I'm really kinda open to this whole discussion.
I've gotta say, after years of reading this crap on HB, I'm getting tired of the "you owe me" mindset of public servants.
If I call you, then you better be whisking me off to the hospital in a Rolls or Bentley, cause by my calculations, that's what you owe me since I've never called and figure I should have plenty of credit based upon the taxes I've paid over the past 39 years. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Kilrtoy]

Exactly. Shaken is also making some excellent points.
My wife is a union employee and I'm not sure I would vote for Arnie, so I'm really kinda open to this whole discussion.
I've gotta say, after years of reading this crap on HB, I'm getting tired of the "you owe me" mindset of public servants.
If I call you, then you better be whisking me off to the hospital in a Rolls or Bentley, cause by my calculations, that's what you owe me since I've never called and figure I should have plenty of credit based upon the taxes I've paid over the past 39 years. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I agree, TOO BAD ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELONG HERE HAVE SUCK UP ALL THAT MONEY and now its dry

[blackcloud75]

I agree, TOO BAD ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELONG HERE HAVE SUCK UP ALL THAT MONEY and now its dry
And who are the people who are legally bound to interact, provide compassion and care to these individuals on a daily basis????????????
Cops
Firefighters
Nurses
Teachers
How do we cost recover the money from the people who freeload?
That is the real problem Arnie should focus on.

[C-2]

And who are the people who interact(by law) and provide compassion and care to these individuals on a daily basis????????????
Cops
Firefighters
Nurses
Teachers
How do we cost recover the money from the people who freeload?
That is the real problem Arnie should focus on.
I agree Kilr raises a good point and which you agree, but there are many occupations in life, few which are mandated by law. It's a career choice.

[blackcloud75]

I agree Kilr raises a good point and which you agree, but there are many occupations in life, few which are mandated by law. It's a career choice.
Professions aren't mandated by law,
Services provided by certain Professions are law

[little rowe boat]

Oh God please don't let Arnie win.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I agree, TOO BAD ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELONG HERE HAVE SUCK UP ALL THAT MONEY and now its dry
Whether or not the union arguments have any agreements in them or not, THAT is the largest problem (money-wise) California (and several other southern states) have. Cali wouldn't be as broke as it is, or taxes could be lower, or both if it weren't for the freeloaders on the public dole, MANY MANY of which are undocumented ("ILLEGAL" DAMMIT) Mexicans from S of the border.
Y'all would still get to enjoy the rolling blackouts because Cali does not generate as much energy as it uses and does not even have the transmission capability to BUY as much as it uses (thank various environmentalist groups for THAT one out there). We'll be there in Ks eventually unless we build one soon, we are at 80% of capacity now and growing.
From :http://www.energy.ca.gov/electricity/2004-07-08_SUMMER_DEMAND.PDF
2004 June July Aug Sep Oct
Total Available Capacity 57,948 57,928 58,207 58,138 49,963
Total Demand_________ 54,826 60,898 60,898 60,898 48,193
It's not getting better, see page 9, unless generating plants are built.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Oh God please don't let Arnie win.
:yuk:
:p

[rivercrazy]

I'll be voting for Arnold - Again!

[little rowe boat]

I'll be voting for Arnold - Again!
My family and friends,my colleagues and their family and friends WONT be voting for him.

[rivercrazy]

I'm glad to hear your participating in the system. But your tactics there don't deter me from voting one bit! BTW - about 90% of the people I know will be voting for Arnold! :D

[little rowe boat]

I'm glad to hear your participating in the system. But your tactics there don't deter me from voting one bit! BTW - about 90% of the people I know will be voting for Arnold! :D
I hope you don't know many people. :D

[rivercrazy]

LOL! :D
Glad we can keep this light hearted.

[little rowe boat]

LOL! :D
Glad we can keep this light hearted.
Absolutely.

[MagicMtnDan]

So many misguided people because of the attack ads running night and day on TV against Arnold...
We've had years of democrats running this state towards bankruptcy. In fact, the biggest problem in the state is the same problem it's always had, a liberal, free-spending, fiscally irresponsible state legislature which is overwhelmingly democratic.
If you love or want to love the state you live in, if you and your family want to live in a state that functions in a balanced and fiscally sound way then you better vote for Arnold. If you don't like him I shudder to think of who you do like!
Only Arnold has the strength, ability, financial resources and independence to fix everything (well, he's trying) that's broken. This state is dysfunctional and the only chance it has is for Arnold to try to fix it. If you're not pulling for him to get the job done then I believe you're an enabler who votes democratic and then bitches about all the things that are wrong in CA.
Some thoughts for the union people here:
* I respect the hell out of what you do for this state - thank you!
* We have no society without teachers, police, firefighters, nurses but, we have no state without doctors, lawyers, stay-at-home mothers and fathers, delivery people, construction workers, retail people, small business owners, etc. Everyone, every profession is important.
* Why do you union people allow your unions to spend unbelievable sums of money backing politicians every couple of years?! I believe it's immoral to spend union dues that should be going to running the union and to the paying union members.
* The problem in our society typically isn't HOW MUCH money is spent, it's HOW it's being spent! We have so many incompetent people in school administration (too many people in school administration) running the system while the vast majority (teachers) are not getting enough pay or enough of the money spent on supplies and schools, etc.
The system is broken and it takes independent, unselfish, dedicated, focused, driven leaders (like Arnold) who are willing to take a beating from the lobbyists while staying the course and working to fix this very broken state.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Phuck it, I'm voting for Pedro!

[Kilrtoy]

The system is broken and it takes independent, unselfish, dedicated, focused, driven leaders (like Arnold) who are willing to take a beating from the lobbyists while staying the course and working to fix this very broken state.
Isnt this the guy who got caught taking an 8 million dollar kick back... Even davis didnt take that much.....
Come on.....he only gave it back BECAUSE HE GOT CAUGHT

[lewiville]

Waaaaaa.....Waaaaaaaa......Waaaaaaaaa !!!!!! :cry:
I'm so tired of those BS comercials using whining teachers..... :yuk:
Education still gets more & more money each year and squanders it. :confused:
Screw your California public education system that takes more & more of my taxes each year and turn's out a sub standard product. :devil:
In the real world people are fired each day for poor performance. :idea:
Quit all you F'n whining and suck it up like the rest of us !!!! :boxed:
CJG
:coffeycup
BINGOBINGO

[lewiville]

Unions are money suckers now a days. I can't believe people still fall into those propagandas. They only service maybe 5 % of their members and the majority of them only get attention at contract renewal times. In the mean time you are steady paying monthly dues for nothing.........excellent investment NOT.
Ask the Supermarket folks from several months back. Better yet ask the Teamsters that should have had a fat pension form several years back. If Arnie could get them out it's a good thing. Working management can't run their business to their liking because of stuff unions impose in HIS company.
People don't seem to understand that unions can't guarantee you what the COMPANY can't afford or is not willing to provide. Just my .02.
As far as the State goes he's basically taken a broken place and getting it to function the way it was once. Shouldn't have to come out of public service folks pockets though. Cut the fat out of shit like city halls where people can piss away days without doing shit.
True.... when was the last time you saw a commercial about a union saying something good. The union is only trying to save there ass's and keep there salery's ( can't spell) coming in. So now they have to send out mesages saying that he (Arnold ) is taking away ( feel sorry for the fire fighters and cops that did the ad ).
Remember the grocery store strike? Allot of people lost there lively hoods, but did the presidents of the unions lose anything ............fock no, they all still got paid $500,000 a year and still got bonus's on top of that!

[Sleek-Jet]

That is the $1,000,000.00 question.....NOT arnie is a good start....
the only other person that comes to mind that is F@@@ED up Like arnie is
ROY ROMER... Im sure some Colorado people will concur...
Now why would you bring that old bean/sheep farmer into this nice clean discussion on politics??? :D

[Sleek-Jet]

Whether or not the union arguments have any agreements in them or not, THAT is the largest problem (money-wise) California (and several other southern states) have. Cali wouldn't be as broke as it is, or taxes could be lower, or both if it weren't for the freeloaders on the public dole, MANY MANY of which are undocumented ("ILLEGAL" DAMMIT) Mexicans from S of the border.
Y'all would still get to enjoy the rolling blackouts because Cali does not generate as much energy as it uses and does not even have the transmission capability to BUY as much as it uses (thank various environmentalist groups for THAT one out there). We'll be there in Ks eventually unless we build one soon, we are at 80% of capacity now and growing.
From :http://www.energy.ca.gov/electricity/2004-07-08_SUMMER_DEMAND.PDF
2004 June July Aug Sep Oct
Total Available Capacity 57,948 57,928 58,207 58,138 49,963
Total Demand_________ 54,826 60,898 60,898 60,898 48,193
It's not getting better, see page 9, unless generating plants are built.
The reduced ampacity of the transmission system was not the sole reason for the rolling black outs. California decided to de-regulate it's transmission system, and forced all the utilities to sell off their generation. So, since all the power had to be purchased on the open market, the cost went through the roof on high demand days. Some generator operators purposely held back generation capacity to force the cost of electricity on the spot market to skyrocket. Basically Cali had a self induced energy crisis.
The California ISO had no authority to make generators operate. Isn't deregulation fun???
Then, once all the dust had cleared, Gov. Davis told all the utilities that the state would pay for all the overpriced electrons to keep them [the utilities] solvent. And why did this happen?? When Cali de-regulated, the legislation did not allow utilities to pass on the higher cost of electricity to their consumers. It was a self defeating idea from the very beginning.

[MagicMtnDan]

More info on the unions and the state of California:
1 person in 8 in California is a member of a union.
Union pensions pay 90%. Imagine what happens to the state's finances when all these union people retire!
How do the legislators think the state can afford to pay for these thousands of union retirees?!
That's why the unions are frying Arnold at every opportunity. They don't want to lose their juicy fat deals that the rest of us will pay for - forever! :devil:

[Kilrtoy]

More info on the unions and the state of California:
1 person in 8 in California is a member of a union.
Union pensions pay 90%. Imagine what happens to the state's finances when all these union people retire!
How do the legislators think the state can afford to pay for these thousands of union retirees?!
That's why the unions are frying Arnold at every opportunity. They don't want to lose their juicy fat deals that the rest of us will pay for - forever! :devil:
Talk about BULLSHIT LIES DAN..
Come on where do you get these facts....
You are so far off...

[Ultrafied]

Arnie gets my vote ... he did what he said on the vehicle registration. He compromised with the Indian Casinos to get money, and he is trying to do what's best.
I definitely wonder why the teachers, firefighters, and police are spending so much of their money on advertisement (prime time, major networks). They say they aren't special interest groups yet they are acting like it.
Most of us respect the fire fighters and police, we need them and understand that their salaries should be kept in line with what is needed. If it isn't, then let them enter the private sector for more money. They can't, well maybe time to switch careers. I know I have (and I didn't enjoy it much at the time). Why stay if you are not appreciated.
The teachers ... well, they are in a tough position. I understand. I understood it enough to send my son to a private school. If it wasn't empathy by the teachers, it was lack of direction, discipline and funding in the public school system. I paid my taxes and then I paid my tuition in private education.
As far as someone referring that we are still having rolling blackouts ... BS ... we haven't had a rolling blackout in 2 years, at least not in SC Edison's area. Always someone wanting to put fear into the election process unfounded.

[blackcloud75]

Obviously some people don't understand that a lot of union members pay their benefits out of there Pocket(salary) and are not employer paid. If union members retire, aren't they living off of their own investment????Not the state's????

[blackcloud75]

As far as someone referring that we are still having rolling blackouts ... BS ... we haven't had a rolling blackout in 2 years, at least not in SC Edison's area. Always someone wanting to put fear into the election process unfounded.
I thought Riverside has their own Utilities??????

[Kilrtoy]

Arnie gets my vote ... he did what he said on the vehicle registration..
See this is where you are confused
its ok to fix the states problems on the backs of PD FD Nurses and TEACHERS.... but when it comes to YOUR pocket **** THAT...
How old are you.. These fees have been in place probably before you were even born. I know they were before I was born and that was 68.....
no one ever noticed the price of fees until they all started buying 40,50,60,70 plus thousand dollar cars.. That is when we realized what the fees were
So what you are saying is FIX THE PROBLEM , JUST NOT ON MY DIME
I definitely wonder why the teachers, firefighters, and police are spending so much of their money on advertisement (prime time, major networks). They say they aren't special interest groups yet they are acting like it.
Most of us respect the fire fighters and police, we need them and understand that their salaries should be kept in line with what is needed. If it isn't, then let them enter the private sector for more money. They can't, well maybe time to switch careers. I know I have (and I didn't enjoy it much at the time). Why stay if you are not appreciated.
.
You pay them minimum wage you will get minimum wage services...
I sure as hell want the best paid FD and PD, Nurses working on me and I want the best paid teachers, teaching kids.... There are already to many stupid uneducated people walking around....

[blackcloud75]

It's Official ... Arnold and Co. Going After Pensions in 2006
This past April, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger temporarily pulled back his proposed ballot initiative to privatize all public employee pensions – the one that would have eliminated death and disability benefits for widows and orphans of fallen firefighters. But when he made the tactical move, he also made a promise: ‘I’ll Be Back’ after your hard-earned retirement next year.
Unfortunately for firefighters, this is one promise the governor has decided to keep.
In the dead of night on September 8th, the last night of the legislative session, Arnold’s prime pension henchman – Assemblyman Keith Richman – introduced yet another flawed pension privatization proposal.
If approved by lawmakers when they return to Sacramento in January, Richman’s new measure, ACA 23, would go before voters next year … right on Arnold’s timetable.
The introduction of ACA 23 is the “smoking gun” revealing Arnold’s two-step attack on public employees.
Step One: Silence your voice with Proposition 75, the Paycheck Deception Initiative.
Step Two: Steal your pension next June.
Like previous pension privatization attempts, ACA 23 contains a number of the same dangerous provisions, the more egregious include:
Constitutionally outlaws defined benefit (DB) retirement plans for all state and local firefighters effective 7.1.07 in favor of risky defined contribution (DC) and hybrid retirement schemes;
Eliminates specific provisions that otherwise provide for secured, defined death benefits for the survivors of firefighters killed in the line of duty;
Constitutionally Increases the normal retirement age for firefighters from age 50 to age 55;
Constitutionally takes away retiree health care for those firefighters who have not yet reached age 55; and
Constitutionally eliminates the single-highest year standard in favor of a 36-month average when calculating a firefighter’s final compensation for retirement purposes.
In short, ACA 23 lacks a common sense approach to the issue of retirement stability. Instead of outlining potential improvements to defined benefit retirement systems, it mandates an extreme, unnecessary and “one size fits all” approach that threatens the retirement security for millions of working Californians.
Philosophically, ACA 23 is simply mean-spirited. The measure does nothing more than inappropriately and unfairly attack the retirement security of those fire service professionals who have made protecting the public their life’s work; putting their lives on the line to keep Californians safe each and every time the alarm bell rings.
We can’t let Governor Schwarzenegger and his allies steal the hard-earned pension security of California’s first responders. That’s what’s at stake this November 8th.
If passed, Prop. 75 will give the Governor and his allies a license to take our hard-earned retirement because we won’t have the resources necessary to fight him. When he tried to take our pensions this past spring, we had the strength, unity and resources to force him to back down.
If approved by voters this November, Prop. 75 will steal our voices so that the Governor will have a clear field to steal our retirements next year!
To find out how you can help fight the governor’s pension grab, click here.
FIGHTING FOR FIREFIGHTERS, OUR FAMILIES AND OUR FUTURE
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and his special interest allies have declared war on firefighters, teachers, nurses, law enforcement and millions of other public employees. Their weapon: an $80 million November 8th Special Election that nobody wants, pushing an agenda that silences our voice and paves the way for public safety cuts, and an end to our secure public retirement system.
For them, it’s about power. For us, it’s about our families and our future.
Proposition 75: Paycheck Deception – steals our strong, united voice in state and local elections with restrictions that hit public employees (i.e. firefighters, teachers, cops), and no one else.
Proposition 76: Political Power Grab – erodes fiscal checks and balances, giving any governor virtually unlimited power to impose his or her agenda without any accountability
Click HERE to read what the governor doesn’t want you to know about Propositions 75 and 76.
WHY IT MATTERS TO YOU …
The Pension Two-Step: Prop. 75 steals our voices this November, so the governor can steal our pensions next June.
The Hidden Agenda: Prop. 75’s authors don’t want you to know about their real motives, their corporate backers and Arnold’s unseen hand.
Political Power Play: Prop. 76 erodes democratic checks and balances and erases meaningful government accountability.
The Budget Shell Game: Prop. 76 will shrink local public safety budgets and actually encourage higher taxes.
IF WE ARE TO PRESERVE OUR VOICE FOR TOMORROW, WE MUST SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE TODAY
Get Informed … Click HERE to learn more about the governor’s special interest agenda and HERE to find out who is behind it.
Get Active … Click HERE to see how your fellow firefighters are fighting back!
Get Registered … Click HERE to find out how to register to vote
Get to the Polls … Click HERE to learn how to register as a permanent absentee voter.
“There is more at stake in this special election than ever before ... our jobs, our pensions, our families’ future, and maybe even our safety on the front lines. This is truly the fight of our lives.”
Lou Paulson
This is from the Third Largest Fire Department in the USA's webpage.
AND they aren't even in the PERS system. It just doesn't effect State retirement and benefits.
TRICKLE DOWN EFFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
www.lacountyfire.com

[blackcloud75]

.......Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and his special interest allies have declared war on firefighters, teachers, nurses, law enforcement and millions of other public employees. Their weapon: an ]$80 million November 8th Special Election that nobody wants, pushing an agenda that silences our voice and paves the way for public safety cuts, and an end to our secure public retirement system.......
Can't 80 million do something else?????

[Kilrtoy]

.......Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and his special interest allies have declared war on firefighters, teachers, nurses, law enforcement and millions of other public employees. Their weapon: an ]$80 million November 8th Special Election that nobody wants, pushing an agenda that silences our voice and paves the way for public safety cuts, and an end to our secure public retirement system.......
Can't 80 million do something else?????
WHAT he is spending 80 million TAXPAYERS DOLLARS to go after PUBLIC SAFETY.....
I call that responsible...... :hammer2: :hammer2: :hammer2: :hammer2:

[Ultrafied]

Well Kilr, I'm 53 ... the fees put in place 1 1/2 years after I started driving (you could ride a motorcycle at 15 1/2 then), so I do remember. What I was referring to was Davis's attempt to raise the fees back up to where they originally were. And yes, it is a lot more noticeable at the 40, 50 and 60k level. But Arnie promised to keep them where they were at and lower them back (remember, Davis and already raised the fees).
On the back of nurses, PD, teachers .... they are, and I assume you are, state employees ..... correct. I am a tax payer, represented in Sacramento. If to balance the budget, either cut expenses or bring in gross. That is the way it is in private industry. Put it on a ballot and let vote if I want it on my back. If not, CUT EXPENSES .... every company has too.
If I vote to pay them minimum wage, so be it .... but no more FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).... it gets old after awhile. What I see in the advertisement by the teachers, PD, nurses and Fire Fighters is FUD being inserted into the public to keep ones job.

[Kilrtoy]

Well Kilr, I'm 53 ... the fees put in place 1 1/2 years after I started driving (you could ride a motorcycle at 15 1/2 then), so I do remember. What I was referring to was Davis's attempt to raise the fees back up to where they originally were. And yes, it is a lot more noticeable at the 40, 50 and 60k level. But Arnie promised to keep them where they were at and lower them back (remember, Davis and already raised the fees).
On the back of nurses, PD, teachers .... they are, and I assume you are, state employees ..... correct. I am a tax payer, represented in Sacramento. If to balance the budget, either cut expenses or bring in gross. That is the way it is in private industry. Put it on a ballot and let vote if I want it on my back. If not, CUT EXPENSES .... every company has too.
If I vote to pay them minimum wage, so be it .... but no more FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).... it gets old after awhile. What I see in the advertisement by the teachers, PD, nurses and Fire Fighters is FUD being inserted into the public to keep ones job.
Ok then you do remember. So is it ok to balancce it on your and every other citizen of this state or just the employees of this state. Sounds lik ethe latter to me...
and yes they should cut more positions in Government at the top....He has appointed alot of high powered positions with high power pay and they do WHAT....NOTHING BUT COLLECT ALOT OF MONEY..
it is not a scare...
lets look back a few years when Pd lowered there standards because DOT com and other companies were paying HUGE money...
They hired alot of shitty cops and fireman (ofcourse you dont hear about the FD it is not new worthy)
lets look at NewOrleans P.D.. PRIOR to the hurricane.. they were the lowest paid BIG city PD in america and that is why Crime was was out of control... 1/2 the department was on the take....YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.. That has already been proven.
As it is alot of FD's dont have paramedics..... You may not realize how important this is... get in a car wreck and have one of the goodhew or other ambulance companies save your ass IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN...
Arnie will make it worse...

[Ultrafied]

Well, in business, the top doesn't get fired, sorry to say. Every governor will bring in his own team, just as any new CEO will do in the private sector. Unfortunately, something has to give, the budget is not going to magically balance. As far as I can see, Arnie is not going to make our PD pay lower ... just some of the benefits. Same with FD and nurses. The teachers will be paid upon performance (what a novel idea).
Long story short, he has initiatives coming up. If they pass, then that's what the PEOPLE want. Unfortunately, State, County and City employees will have to abide by what majority wants. If that means a lousy, low paid PD (or FUD as I call it), then that's what they will get and live with. As far as myself, I really don't believe that it ever will get that way. It will mean that State employees will have to tighten up like a lot of us have had to do over the years. It is called change ......

[Throttle]

[QUOTE=Ultrafied] The teachers will be paid upon performance (what a novel idea).
QUOTE]
Really, I guess in stead of teaching-they will just teach the tests so they can keep their jobs and make some $$$.
I disagree with the "novel idea".

[Froggystyle]

HOT LOOKING CHICKS dig these
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/111Picture020.JPG
No, hot chicks WEAR those... ;)

[Throttle]

No, hot chicks WEAR those... ;)
froggy just wants pics to prove it... :D

[Sleek-Jet]

[QUOTE=Ultrafied] The teachers will be paid upon performance (what a novel idea).
QUOTE]
Really, I guess in stead of teaching-they will just teach the tests so they can keep their jobs and make some $$$.
I disagree with the "novel idea".
I've never understood this argument. Life is about tests and how you perform. To get the job I have today, I had to go learn information about the job, I then had to prove I knew the information by taking..... wait for it.... a test. The outrage . I have to meet perfomance standards to keep my job, and those are nothing more than a series of little tests day to day that keep my supervisors appraised of my performance.

[C-2]

Well, in business, the top doesn't get fired, sorry to say. Every governor will bring in his own team, just as any new CEO will do in the private sector. Unfortunately, something has to give, the budget is not going to magically balance. As far as I can see, Arnie is not going to make our PD pay lower ... just some of the benefits. Same with FD and nurses. The teachers will be paid upon performance (what a novel idea).
Long story short, he has initiatives coming up. If they pass, then that's what the PEOPLE want. Unfortunately, State, County and City employees will have to abide by what majority wants. If that means a lousy, low paid PD (or FUD as I call it), then that's what they will get and live with. As far as myself, I really don't believe that it ever will get that way. It will mean that State employees will have to tighten up like a lot of us have had to do over the years. It is called change ......
You bring a lot of common sense to this debate and I agree with it.
My wife is a union Baker - she loved her craft and it's the only one she knows. About 5 years ago, she made damn good money working it. But the strike changed all that and her days are numbered. While she loves what she does - we're not so sure she can make money at it any longer. Either she toughs it out for lower pay, or she walks. That's a reailty we accept.
I think PD, Fire and Teaching jobs have been the focus of a lot of public distain of the past several years. The more you folks holler about stuff being taken away - the more the average joe questions your occupation and it's compensation.
I too beleive there is a threshold of tolerance, and finding a happy median is key. A median where you folks are happy; and the public is happy.
Like Ultrafied said - change. If policing or fighting fires iw hat you love to do - but feel you you aren't being compensated adequetly - then find another career. Public health doctors, social workers and public defenders/prosecutors are highly educated people. They know going into it they can make four-fold the money elsewhere. Again, a reality they have come to accept since their passion seems to be *truly* helping people and not expecting a CEO salary and perks.
Dot dissing you guys, just something I've been thinking about.
Carry on....

[Throttle]

I've never understood this argument. Life is about tests and how you perform. To get the job I have today, I had to go learn information about the job, I then had to prove I knew the information by taking..... wait for it.... a test. The outrage . I have to meet perfomance standards to keep my job, and those are nothing more than a series of little tests day to day that keep my supervisors appraised of my performance.
my job does not come easy either, its all about testing... example 5,000-10,000 applicants for maybe 100 jobs over several years... My job is like winning the lottery with out the cash. Continuous education and testing, professionalism and pride.
Now, gf is a teacher and she works hard and puts everything she can into her 3rd grade class. She meets the standards but the kids do not... this is a huge soap box and BS. But an example for you, a child moves to California and into the school 3 weeks before the rest of the class will advance to 4th grade, he does not even come close to the standard of the State of CA for education let alone the rest of the class. He should not pass and move up, so since he does not pass or advance to 4th grade are you saying that my gf should pay the price? FU, I dont think so.

[Kilrtoy]

Like Ultrafied said - change. If policing or fighting fires iw hat you love to do - but feel you you aren't being compensated adequetly - then find another career. Public health doctors, social workers and public defenders/prosecutors are highly educated people. They know going into it they can make four-fold the money elsewhere. Again, a reality they have come to accept since their passion seems to be *truly* helping people and not expecting a CEO salary and perks.
..
Who ever asked for CEO salary or perks....
Come on don't stretch thing out of proportion

[Kilrtoy]

I've never understood this argument. Life is about tests and how you perform. To get the job I have today, I had to go learn information about the job, I then had to prove I knew the information by taking..... wait for it.... a test. The outrage . I have to meet perfomance standards to keep my job, and those are nothing more than a series of little tests day to day that keep my supervisors appraised of my performance.
Ok I have a plan
I want you to build car Engine from the ground up, you will receive all the engine parts, but the catch is you only get a flat head screw driver.... Now you can begin your test, I hope you dont fail.
now back on the test subject...Most teachers live in decent neighborhoods and drive in to complete shit holes... most of you would not do that.... they give there best to a classroom of non english speaking kids. But damn you have to start at the bottom and it takes years just to get them to learn to SPEAK english let alone understand how to write it. Brand new teachers in L.A. get thrown straight into South Central... talk about crushing ones fantasy to educate people.... Now should they get fired because this country continues to allow illegal aliens in to this country and then force teachers to educate them, I think not

[Sleek-Jet]

my job does not come easy either, its all about testing... example 5,000-10,000 applicants for maybe 100 jobs over several years... My job is like winning the lottery with out the cash. Continuous education and testing, professionalism and pride.
Now, gf is a teacher and she works hard and puts everything she can into her 3rd grade class. She meets the standards but the kids do not... this is a huge soap box and BS. But an example for you, a child moves to California and into the school 3 weeks before the rest of the class will advance to 4th grade, he does not even come close to the standard of the State of CA for education let alone the rest of the class. He should not pass and move up, so since he does not pass or advance to 4th grade are you saying that my gf should pay the price? FU, I dont think so.
Nothing against your g/f, I just find a flaw in the "teaching to the test arguement."
I have an aunt that is a teacher, we have this discussion all the time. Most teachers all cry the same thing "We are restricted in what we teach, now we have to teach the test and that's all".
I always like to ask, "So what were you teaching before???"
Educators, for the most part, do not like to be judged or held to a standard.

[C-2]

Who ever asked for CEO salary or perks....
Come on don't stretch thing out of proportion
I thought you once said that $100K for a patrol officer is not uncommon? If true, to me that's seems pretty excessive. I saw the average starting salary for a college grad Chemical Engineer is about half that amount.

[Sleek-Jet]

Ok I have a plan
I want you to build car Engine from the ground up, you will receive all the engine parts, but the catch is you only get a flat head screw driver.... Now you can begin your test, I hope you dont fail.
So you're saying that teachers are not teaching the material (the tools in your little allegory) to pass "the test"???
Teachers have a thankless job, don't get me wrong, but some sort of standard has to be applied.

[Kilrtoy]

I thought you once said that $100K for a patrol officer is not uncommon? If true, to me that's seems pretty excessive. I saw the average starting salary for a college grad Chemical Engineer is about half that amount.
I never said that ... That was someone else and I strongly disagreed with that...
Now is it possible to attain that. YES, but at what price to your health and family... You start living at the station 7 days a week to make that...

[Kilrtoy]

So you're saying that teachers are not teaching the material (the tools in your little allegory) to pass "the test"???
Teachers have a thankless job, don't get me wrong, but some sort of standard has to be applied.
The teachers are you, the kids are the engine, now you have only a screw driver to put them together....
Granted 25 % of the teachers will profit from arnies plan the other 75% will not....
My friends FRIEND, whom I have met lived in NY, finished her degree and was offered a job as a teacher in L.A. She was told she gets a teaching bonus and is going to work in a state of the art BRAND NEW school. She was on the top of cloud nine...
so she shows up and WOW, talk about an eye opener. Its in S.C. Los Angeles most of the kids already cant read or write and 1/2 barely speak english.....
how do you think her class scores are.....Should she be fired.....

[riverfamily]

From Long Beach Press Telegram Editorial 9/20/05
"One financial expert describes it as one of the most stunning transfers of wealth in human history, from the pockets of taxpayers to the pockets of goverment employees. What will it take to awaken the victims?
Whats happening is that extravagant encreases in pensions and other compensation of state and local government employees threaten to cause a wave of bankruptcies, tax increases and cutbacks in service. An analysis by th L.A. Daily News this week showed that California's largest public agencies face an increase of $108 BILLION in pension costs compared to just three years ago. According to the Legislative Analyst's Office, thats a TENFOLD INCREASE.
Steven B. Frates, a senior fellow at the Rose Inatute of State and Local Government at Claremont McKenna College, says that we are just beginning to see the effects of this givaway. He says Californians will suffer greatly as a consequence: schools, roads, bridges, sewers, water systems and similar improvements will have to be curtailed because more money will get chaneled into the huge retirement obligations.
The damage is close at hand, because a third of California and L.A. County employees are expected to retire within the next five years. (The percentage of federal employees is even higher, although their pension benefits are not nearly so rich.)
The first horror story is San Diego, which has not yet figured out a way to avoid bankruptcy caused by spiked public pensions that created a $1.4 BILLION unfunded liability. Even after those problems surfaced, Orange County supervisors jacked up pension benefits well beyoun what the county could reasonably expect to handle in future years.
L.A. County alone has an unfunded liability of $ 16 BILLION; the city of L.A. $ 3.2 BILLION; L.A. Unified $ 6.9 Billion; and CalPERS, the state public employee retirement system, $ 22.3 BILLION.
There are three ways to improve matters, at least for the future: Make government employees pay for the fattened pensions; implement two-tiered plans, so that future hires have smaller pensions; and start replacing government workers with contract employees who get salaries and pensions more like those of taxpayers.
And when should woters wake up to whats going on? Now would be a good time."
And one other way increase taxes which the MAJORITY of Californians do NOT WANT!

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

[QUOTE=Ultrafied] The teachers will be paid upon performance (what a novel idea).
QUOTE]
Really, I guess in stead of teaching-they will just teach the tests so they can keep their jobs and make some $$$.
I disagree with the "novel idea".
Why ???
That's how I've been paid most of my life.......on "Performance"......
Like I said before.....No Performance = No PAY!!!
That's how the "Real World" lives.....
I know there are under performers in teaching and I bet you know of under performers in your profession.......
If they weren't so protected by the union's, they could be replaced by "possibly" better qualified people.....or atleast different people to try.
But most of you "union" folks just want to "Stick" together for survival, no matter what you really think of the ability of the other guy/girl.
Man........We debate this topic every few weeks.......The same always holds true...
It's change.....People really don't like change....
The State can't afford the perk's anymore.....I REALLY do feel for all of you in Public Service,....I think many of us are tired of all the complaining....FUD!......
We are scratching & clawing every day, without a guaranteed retirement......Then some bimbo comes on the TV with a condesending attitude to talk crap about Arnold "Stealing" from an already bloated and mis-managed teaching budget.......One that get's bigger and more mis-managed each year....
We just lose interest with all the complaining.....
Sorry....
Maybe you shouldn't have played THAT lottery....
Regards,
CJG
:smile:

[Sleek-Jet]

The teachers are you, the kids are the engine, now you have only a screw driver to put them together....
Granted 25 % of the teachers will profit from arnies plan the other 75% will not....
My friends FRIEND, whom I have met lived in NY, finished her degree and was offered a job as a teacher in L.A. She was told she gets a teaching bonus and is going to work in a state of the art BRAND NEW school. She was on the top of cloud nine...
so she shows up and WOW, talk about an eye opener. Its in S.C. Los Angeles most of the kids already cant read or write and 1/2 barely speak english.....
how do you think her class scores are.....Should she be fired.....
I'm not arguing anything on Arines plan, I'm just arguing the cry of "teaching to the test". The test scores should be used by the schools to change what is needed, of course that takes $$$$ which brings us back to the beginning. :rollside:

[CA Stu]

He has taken money(2 billion from education alone) from education and public safety without its guarranteed return. Promised to cut beneficiary benefits for public safety.
I guess he has a pretty good record!!!!!!!!!!
Hey dumbass, if there's only so much money in the bucket, it has to come from somewhere, and those two areas are hopelessly bloated government bureaucracies laden with entrenched, ineffective people that are way more of a burden on our tax base than the welfare recipients!
Damn right I'm voting for him!
Fiscal conservatism is a good thing!
Thanks
CA Stu

[Kilrtoy]

Hey dumbass, if there's only so much money in the bucket, it has to come from somewhere, and those two areas are hopelessly bloated government bureaucracies laden with entrenched, ineffective people that are way more of a burden on our tax base than the welfare recipients!
Thanks
CA Stu
I agree and they are all holding top postions....but we all know cuts happen at the bottom , not the top where they should be .....

[blackcloud75]

Hey dumbass, if there's only so much money in the bucket, it has to come from somewhere, and those two areas are hopelessly bloated government bureaucracies laden with entrenched, ineffective people that are way more of a burden on our tax base than the welfare recipients!
Damn right I'm voting for him!
Fiscal conservatism is a good thing![/
Thanks
CA Stu
.......Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and his special interest allies have declared war on firefighters, teachers, nurses, law enforcement and millions of other public employees. Their weapon: an ]$80 million November 8th Special Election that nobody wants, pushing an agenda that silences our voice and paves the way for public safety cuts, and an end to our secure public retirement system.......
Can't 80 million do something else?????
Not sure if you knew what 80 million meant?????????
Oh wait, that would be taxpayers money!!!!!Yours and Mine!!!!!
Maybe you should read some of the info. posted...
cricket.................cricket................... .cricket
Cory aka BC75 better known as "Dumbass"

[riverfamily]

Stop quoting the union party line! Yes the 80 mil could go to something else and your union dues could be HALF as much as they are if your union didnt spend so much money on prime time TV ads and stoped trying to bribe (opps I mean lobby) every democrate in office. But 80 mil now may save us 20 plus Billion later . See editorial from Press Telegram Long Beach (which is a liberal paper)

[blackcloud75]

Stop quoting the union party line! Yes the 80 mil could go to something else and your union dues could be HALF as much as they are if your union didnt spend so much money on prime time TV ads and stoped trying to bribe (opps I mean lobby) every democrate in office. But 80 mil now may save us 20 plus Billion later . See editorial from Press Telegram Long Beach (which is a liberal paper)
................L.A. County alone has an unfunded liability of $ 16 BILLION; the city of L.A. $ 3.2 BILLION; L.A. Unified $ 6.9 Billion; and CalPERS, the state public employee retirement system, $ 22.3 BILLION.
There are three ways to improve matters, at least for the future: Make government employees pay for the fattened pensions; implement two-tiered plans, so that future hires have smaller pensions; and start replacing government workers with contract employees who get salaries and pensions more like those of taxpayers.And when should woters wake up to whats going on? Now would be a good time."...............
I am sorry there are already numerous tiered system within these Retirement systems( to many to list)
MOST of us already pay for our retirement out of our pocket(not our employer's)
Private Employee retention is less than 2 years in Privatized Public Safety Organizations (Pinkerton, Brinks, Rural/Metro, AMR) there again '
"You Get What You Pay For!"
BTW, I would quote politicians/news affiliates/etc. but are they always HONEST............................................ .
Maybe the root of the Problem is the ****in' tax evading Freeloaders
Solve that Arnie!!!!!!!

[Kilrtoy]

Stop quoting the union party line! Yes the 80 mil could go to something else and your union dues could be HALF as much as they are if your union didnt spend so much money on prime time TV ads and stoped trying to bribe (opps I mean lobby) every democrate in office. But 80 mil now may save us 20 plus Billion later . See editorial from Press Telegram Long Beach (which is a liberal paper)
That is a editorial, One persons view...I ican write something like that, that is slanted the opposite direction, whats your point....

[blackcloud75]

That is a editorial, One persons view...I ican write something like that, that is slanted the opposite direction, whats your point....
I agree with both sides........believe who????
I tend to believe my Brothers and Sisters of Public Service. You are always better off if you stick with Family and people with similiar interests.
No matter what the ISSUE is.

[Ducatista]

From Long Beach Press Telegram Editorial 9/20/05
"One financial expert describes it as one of the most stunning transfers of wealth in human history, from the pockets of taxpayers to the pockets of goverment employees. What will it take to awaken the victims?
Whats happening is that extravagant encreases in pensions and other compensation of state and local government employees threaten to cause a wave of bankruptcies, tax increases and cutbacks in service. An analysis by th L.A. Daily News this week showed that California's largest public agencies face an increase of $108 BILLION in pension costs compared to just three years ago. According to the Legislative Analyst's Office, thats a TENFOLD INCREASE.
Steven B. Frates, a senior fellow at the Rose Inatute of State and Local Government at Claremont McKenna College, says that we are just beginning to see the effects of this givaway. He says Californians will suffer greatly as a consequence: schools, roads, bridges, sewers, water systems and similar improvements will have to be curtailed because more money will get chaneled into the huge retirement obligations.
The damage is close at hand, because a third of California and L.A. County employees are expected to retire within the next five years. (The percentage of federal employees is even higher, although their pension benefits are not nearly so rich.)
The first horror story is San Diego, which has not yet figured out a way to avoid bankruptcy caused by spiked public pensions that created a $1.4 BILLION unfunded liability. Even after those problems surfaced, Orange County supervisors jacked up pension benefits well beyoun what the county could reasonably expect to handle in future years.
L.A. County alone has an unfunded liability of $ 16 BILLION; the city of L.A. $ 3.2 BILLION; L.A. Unified $ 6.9 Billion; and CalPERS, the state public employee retirement system, $ 22.3 BILLION.
There are three ways to improve matters, at least for the future: Make government employees pay for the fattened pensions; implement two-tiered plans, so that future hires have smaller pensions; and start replacing government workers with contract employees who get salaries and pensions more like those of taxpayers.
And when should woters wake up to whats going on? Now would be a good time."
And one other way increase taxes which the MAJORITY of Californians do NOT WANT!
Exactly why Arnold and his save the State prop's will be getting my vote...or votes!!! :D :D :D riverfamily understands what Arnold understands, and I agree too. Extravagant pensions and Union contracts must be curtailed and brought more in line with the private sector. The State is in the financial toilet, many areas need to be addressed, not just this one. Changing the districts the legislature has created to preserve themselves need to change, so we can vote these free spending liberals the fock out. People who don't belong here, and are bankrupting our social services, need to get the fock out too. Alot has to change, and some people will not like it...too bad! It's gunna happen...just as Gumby(Grey Davis) :squiggle:

[Kilrtoy]

I agree with both sides........believe who????
I tend to believe my Brothers and Sisters of Public Service. You are always better off if you stick with Family and people with similiar interests.
No matter what the ISSUE is.
DONT WORRY BC, they all want to F*** US NOW, but they sure have no problem calling 911 and expect the best service.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

BTW, I would quote politicians/news affiliates/etc. but are they always HONEST
Yes, politicians can't be trusted but you think because a union says it it makes it any more valid or true? Like a union has never been guilty of promoting their own agenda.
The amazing thing about all of this is that this thread is now up to 185 posts and not one single post will have persuaded anyone to vote any differently.

[Kilrtoy]

The amazing thing about all of this is that this thread is now up to 185 posts and not one single post will have persuaded anyone to vote any differently.
This is the best statement in the whole thread

[Kilrtoy]

LOL...the union runs 911? Who's on first? :)
State is broke, could not afford to buy it. So we just pretend where its at....

[riverfamily]

You want to explain to me how you pay for your own retirement when it has guaranteed payouts? I dont know your exact pension but when you have some state employees getting 80 to 90% of their highest paid salary during retirement (even if they only held that position for 1 year) plus health up to 100% depending on service for as long as they live, for both them and their family. It is impossible for this to be funded entirely by the employee.

[Kilrtoy]

You want to explain to me how you pay for your own retirement when it has guaranteed payouts? I dont know your exact pension but when you have some state employees getting 80 to 90% of their highest paid salary during retirement (even if they only held that position for 1 year) plus health up to 100% depending on service for as long as they live, for both them and their family. It is impossible for this to be funded entirely by the employee.
I highlighted a key word again, SOME.. Most get nowhere even close to that, NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE....

[riverfamily]

Kilrtoy my point is you are right, the state is broke and broken but we cant just keep ignoring it. It is like a festering boil and its going to hurt but we got to lance that sucker, before it explodes and gets infected. So lets all agree that something needs to be done.
Like re-elect Arnold!!!!! LOL!!!

[riverfamily]

Ok, but dont you think all police officers in the state should have the same retirement? Lets say you get 50% but a Long Beach officer gets 80% are you saying your job is less dangerous? easier? Maybe your system is not one of the bloated ones. Shouldnt they all be in line with one and another?

[Throttle]

[QUOTE=Sleek-Jet] Most teachers all cry the same thing "We are restricted in what we teach, now we have to teach the test and that's all".
I always like to ask, "So what were you teaching before???"
QUOTE]
Curriculum!
now add larger classes with students that do not even speak english let alone know how to read it or write it... what do you think they are teachin smartazz?
the curriculum does not match the test, get it? :confused:

[Kilrtoy]

Kilrtoy my point is you are right, the state is broke and broken but we cant just keep ignoring it. It is like a festering boil and its going to hurt but we got to lance that sucker, before it explodes and gets infected. So lets all agree that something needs to be done.
Like re-elect Arnold!!!!! LOL!!!
I do agree, lets start by RAISING VLF'S RETROACTIVE back to last year.....
State employee's get a
1.25% at 65 years of age retirement
So lets say you started when you were 30 and actually worked until you are 65, that means you get a whooping 43.75% of your salary.....
That is not even half of this imaginary 90 you ARNIE supports are speaking of ......
So lets say a employee is making 3K at time of retirement that means they get 1312 a month.... that is a few cents more than minimum wage...

[riverfamily]

This is getting off the subject, all the people we are talking about are VERY MUCH NEEDED. The problem is the state is telling all state employees that they are going to take care of everything years down the road when it has no idea what that cost is going to be. What if health insurance goes up 1000% in the next 5 years how is the state going to pay that for all of the existing and retired employees?

[Kilrtoy]

This is getting off the subject, all the people we are talking about are VERY MUCH NEEDED. The problem is the state is telling all state employees that they are going to take care of everything years down the road when it has no idea what that cost is going to be. What if health insurance goes up 1000% in the next 5 years how is the state going to pay that for all of the existing and retired employees?
Ok lets look at SS now....
The problems are easily fixed.. CLOSE THE DAMN BORDERS. What happen to tuff border security after 9/11..... Its bullshit and they keep coming like a plague

[riverfamily]

What about this one? My Mother works for UC Riverside if she retires with 30years in she will get 90% of her last highest paid position plus 100% medical for her and my step father for life

[riverfamily]

yea your right close the boarders but nobody wants to touch that one they will be called racist.

[Kilrtoy]

What about this one? My Mother works for UC Riverside if she retires with 30years in she will get 90% of her last highest paid position plus 100% medical for her and my step father for life
What exactly does she do....

[blackcloud75]

plus 100% medical for her and my step father for life
Damn, I wish!!!!!
I would get 45 bucks a month!

[riverfamily]

administrator (and she and I have this conversation all the time)

[blackcloud75]

And nothin' for the Mrs.'s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blackcloud75]

administrator (and she and I have this conversation all the time)
No wonder,Management

[totenhosen]

Damn, I wish!!!!!
I would get 45 bucks a month!
Yeah it might be $45.00 a month out of your pocket but more like $600.00+ a month for the state.

[Kilrtoy]

administrator (and she and I have this conversation all the time)
See I learned something new today, I never knew professors had that retirement, I thought they were like the rest of the teachers.... 2% at 60

[riverfamily]

see I belive it should be the same for all state employees a fair amount with controled costs. Im not just picking on you guys.

[blackcloud75]

Yeah it might be $45.00 a month out of your pocket but more like $600.00+ a month for the state.
Nope my Medical benefits stop the day I retire and I (me not my family) get 45 BUCKS. Nuttin' from da' state!

[totenhosen]

see I belive it should be the same for all state employees a fair amount with controled costs. Im not just picking on you guys.
Thats where I disagree. I think the guys with high risk jobs need a different type of compensation. Do I think a DMV clerk should get x % of their income at retirement? NO!

[riverfamily]

not a professor or teacher I dont want to say over what but yes it is a management position.

[blackcloud75]

Viva Pedro!!!!!!!!!

[totenhosen]

Nope my Medical benefits stop the day I retire and I (me not my family) get 45 BUCKS. Nuttin' from da' state!
Irregardless the other person mentioned gets medical for life.

[riverfamily]

no see I believe it should be a higher salary now. (your retirement will be higher due to your higher salary even if the % is the same) Also pay based on hazard of the area served a Seal Beach cop should not be paid more or equal to a police officer in the hood, with all same stuff years of service etc.

[blackcloud75]

Thats where I disagree. I think the guys with high risk jobs need a different type of compensation. Do I think a DMV clerk should get x % of their income at retirement? NO!
Then Vote for Arnold!!!!!!
He wants everybody the same.
Fireman=Lunch Lady
Cop=Recreation Director(Sorry Kilr,Bad example but the looks of all your
pics you DEFINATELY qualify!)
Your right all Public employees take the same risk!

[Kilrtoy]

not a professor or teacher I dont want to say over what but yes it is a management position.
Ok she is under safety then.... as far as I know they are the ONLY ONES who have that

[Kilrtoy]

Thats where I disagree. I think the guys with high risk jobs need a different type of compensation. Do I think a DMV clerk should get x % of their income at retirement? NO!
This is what a DMV employee gets
1.25% at 65 years of age retirement

[Kilrtoy]

Then Vote for Arnold!!!!!!
Cop=Recreation Director(Sorry Kilr,Bad example but the looks of all your
pics you DEFINATELY qualify!)
But I am a recreation Director if you only knew...

[blackcloud75]

Irregardless the other person mentioned gets medical for life.
How can you say irregardless????????
How many Administrators are in the UC system?
Not as many as there are fireman,cops,nurses,teachers and other public servants.
Like Kilr said "TRIM THE FAT UP TOP!"

[blackcloud75]

But I am a recreation Director if you only knew...
Can I be your ASSistant director. I think that position would have better benefits!
Mama, I AM THROWING AWAY MY SUPERMAN OUTFIT! It don't pay enough!

[JB in so cal]

I think we can settle this with just a few generalities and put this to bed. Here goes:
Cops write tickets 'cause they have quotas
Firefighters only work 3 days a month, then go the Havasu to bang chicks
Public Sector employees make bank in retirement
The Governator is a pussy
Teachers can't teach
90% of kids in public schools don't speak english
Once you get a Civil Servant job, you're set for life
All Firefighters have big mustaches
Motorcycle cops have hot wives
Thanks. Remember to tip your servers.

[riverfamily]

ok Im done, you vote your way I'll vote mine (and stuff the box LOL) and we will all have to live with the outcome one way or the other.

[blackcloud75]

I think we can settle this with just a few generalities and put this to bed. Here goes:
Cops write tickets 'cause they have quotas
.........Carpal Tunnel SYndrome
Firefighters only work 3 days a month, then go the Havasu to bang chicks
.........work 3 days straight, 1 off, back 2 more days, 1 off, back for 1
Public Sector employees make bank in retirement
.........This is what a DMV employee gets 1.25% at 65 years of age retirement
The Governator is a pussy
.........flabby
Teachers can't teach
.........students can't learn
90% of kids in public schools don't speak english
.........well, your right
Once you get a Civil Servant job, you're set for life
.........Not if Nov. 8 comes the way He wants
All Firefighters have big mustaches
.........Mine come in like PEDRO'S (so no)
Motorcycle cops have hot wives
.........Hell Ya'
Thanks. Remember to tip your servers.
Sorry I modified it!
Classic Original!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Here ya' go! Don't spend it all in one place!

[Kilrtoy]

I think we can settle this with just a few generalities and put this to bed. Here goes:
Cops write tickets 'cause they have quotas
Firefighters only work 3 days a month, then go the Havasu to bang chicks
Public Sector employees make bank in retirement
The Governator is a pussy
Teachers can't teach
90% of kids in public schools don't speak english
Once you get a Civil Servant job, you're set for life
All Firefighters have big mustaches
Motorcycle cops have hot wives
Thanks. Remember to tip your servers.
OH NO THEY DONT... TRUST ME on this one....

[blackcloud75]

OH NO THEY DONT... TRUST ME on this one....
LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

DONT WORRY BC, they all want to F*** US NOW, but they sure have no problem calling 911 and expect the best service.
Kilr....
That's the BS that looses your allies !!!!!
A - I've never dialed 911...
B - I just expect someone to do their job to the best of their ability if I ever do dial 911...
Listen....If you guy's are so wound up about this, GO FIND ANOTHER JOB !!!!
Just like the rest of us would.....
All you guy's are so balled-up over this, it's a wonder you can do your job's at all!!!
You are so brain washed with entitlement it's crazy.....
Don't you see it.....
Were the one's footen the bill for your services and all we hear is whiney biatches!......
If I lose a contract, or a deal changes and cost's me money, who can I complain to.....The guy who's paying for it and decided to change the deal ???....
Hey, the deal changed....I gotta go look somewhere else for a better deal.....
JUST QUIT!!!
Find something that pays better and is safer.....
REALLY......If I was as angry as you guys....I would find another job.....
It's not worth your sanity!!!
I have said this so many times....
I REALLY feel for you guys.....
But I can't get over how you feel entitled to what you currently have....
Later,
CJG
:)

[Kilrtoy]

Actually, no, its the truth...
You wil lose alot of good cops and fireman. Then the replacements will be subpar. Instead of having a top notch, trained, hard charging persons.
You will get substandard workers who are going to have the same attitude towards their jobs that the workers at Mcdonalds have....
NOBODY hates their jobs, That is YOUR SPIN.
I have gone years without a raise, You dont hear me complaining.... I accepted no raises in return for other perks.
how about This Chris. you go in tommorrow call a meeting , tell everyone they are taking a 25% pay cut effective immediately. then get back to me in a month or so and let me know how many employees left and the Crap that replaced them...... also how the employees work is doing for the ones that stayed....

[JBUSAF]

Just back after a week away, reading this long thread has made my eyes hurt! But since nobody replied to this one:
"Sergeant Denny Galloway drowned while attempting to rescue a man from the Trinity River.
The man, a U.S. Marine Corps service member who had just returned from serving in Iraq, had attempted to rescue a woman and child from the river when he too became caught in its current.
Upon arriving at the scene, Sergeant Galloway immediately entered the water in an attempt to save the man. Both Sergeant Galloway and the man became caught in debris and the rough currents and drowned. The woman and child were rescued."
God bless the Marines and the Cops
I left Cali last year, don't miss much but the family and friends, remember that we all do things for a reason, some live to serve and protect, it should never be about the money.
JBUSAF 20 years and counting in the USAF
Have a great day! :cool: