Guy kills transexual and walks???

[Nord]

Just heard of this, this is what happened to my knowledge.....
Guy goes out with a girl, they drink, have a good time.
Go back to a house (which one I'm not sure) and start fooling around.
Guy finds out girl is a dude and stabs it 20 times with scissors killing it.
Claims some sort of temporary sanity over gay shock!!!!!
4 years is the term, then he walks.
I'm not sure what I think yet,
do you guys think this is justified??? :confused:

[moneypit]

By all means. False advertisment big time... I would come un-glued myself. Some freak w/ a snausage. Yuck!!!

[superdave013]

I'm not sure what I think yet,
do you guys think this is justified??? :confused:
Only if her unit was bigger then his! lol

[Nord]

The guy saw it and freaked out!!!!
Then turned into straight scissor hands and had at it!!!

[superdave013]

Ok, killing someone is bad m'kay. But if I were in that situation... I don't know man, thats kinda freaky and shit. If it ever happened, I hope there arent any sissors laying around cause who knows...
:argue: :220v:
Forensic
Oh c'mon, you'ed hit it. lol

[Nord]

Ok, killing someone is bad m'kay. But if I were in that situation... I don't know man, thats kinda freaky and shit. If it ever happened, I hope there arent any sissors laying around cause who knows...
:argue: :220v:
Forensic
Thats exactly what I was thinking, thats why I started this thread!!!!
M'kay<-----lol!! :rollside:

[Jbb]

Has Brown checked in this morning...?

[Nord]

Has Brown checked in this morning...?
Jbb<-----never misses a beat!!!!!

[cdog]

I think it's highly likely that a person would freak out and do some extreme stuff during that kind of situation. Killing someone? Who knows. But i'd sure beat the she-it out of it. Sure glad i'm married.

[HocusPocus]

sounds like another urban legend to me..
anyone got a link to an actual news source??

[ROZ]

20 times with scissors killing it. This is funny...
You ask if it's justified, but don't acknowledge it as a person...woop's I didn't either :supp:
I think she/he too her/his chances when going after a straight person... Had to know the potential for something like this... Not saying it's right, but you never know how someone could react over something like this...

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Justitifed in murdering the person? When is murder ever justified outside of self defense of yourself and others? Keeping in mind I totally understand a parent going after someone that hurt their child or other family member.

[Nord]

Justitifed in murdering the person? When is murder ever justified outside of self defense of yourself and others? Keeping in mind I totally understand a parent going after someone that hurt their child or other family member.
Kinda falls under the same category, maybe, I'm not sure.

[Nord]

sounds like another urban legend to me..
anyone got a link to an actual news source??
Its on Fox new right now!!

[Sleek-Jet]

What I want to know is why Nord is so wrapped up about this....
Did he lose a work-out partner or something???? :D :D :D

[Froggystyle]

Tough call...
I am not sure what the It was trying to accomplish in this case. You have to think it would have to expect some sort of not just shocked, but potentially violent reaction on the part of the straight male. Most hetero males are quite homophobic for one, but for another quite protective of any hits on their masculinity.
Justified? Yeah. Expect a reaction, with a differing level of violence or reaction dependent on the straight male slighted.
Warranted? No. You don't kill people for being creepy. I would do something, but I don't know what. I never seem to have these kinds of problems because I don't date guys... ;)

[Nord]

What I want to know is why Nord is so wrapped up about this....
Did he lose a work out partner or something???? :D :D :D
Terd!! :D
Just thought the thread would be a good subject

[Tom Brown]

Has Brown checked in this morning...?
Man.... I take it up the ass around here more than the aforementioned corpse.

[Nord]

Man.... I take it up the ass around here more than the aforementioned corpse.
There you are!!!
Late morning, or just lurking?? :confused:

[***boateditor]

Man gets four years for killing trans woman
Prosecutors accept plea in face of ‘trans panic’ defense
By ELIZABETH WEILL-GREENBERG
Friday, September 02, 2005
Last August, when Estanislao Martinez, then 23, discovered that the person he went home with — 29-year-old Joel Robles — was a transgendered woman, he stabbed Robles 20 times, jumped out of the window and was found walking naked along a highway, according to police.
Police discovered the victim’s body inside Robles’ Fresno apartment on Aug. 15, 2004, according to police.
Robles often went by the male name, Joel, according to California gay rights activists.
Martinez, now 24, claimed he suffered from “trans panic” and, to the surprise of the transgender rights activists, the Fresno, Calif. district attorney accepted a plea in the case. Martinez received a four-year sentence for voluntary manslaughter. He was sentenced to three years for killing Robles and one year for using scissors as a weapon, according to the Fresno Bee.
“What message does that put out about the trans community?” said Christopher Daley, director of the Transgender Law Center. “It raises the risk for trans women in that community.”
While Robles’ case can’t be changed, Daley hopes that the plea will “serve as a flashpoint for district attorneys around the state to look at this issue.”
Fighting the panic defense
Some offices already have, like Georgia’s Fulton County District Attorney’s office, which held the first ever symposium on gay panic earlier this year, called “Defeating the Gay Panic Defense.” It was inspired, in part, by the death of a gay colleague; his killer employed the gay panic defense and was acquitted.
Gay panic has traditionally been defined to mean that a “defendant’s latent homosexuality caused his violent reaction to a gay man’s advance,” according to a piece on trans panic in the Boston Third World Law Journal by Victoria Steinberg.
Trans panic is a variant of this strategy, with the defendant claiming, “his violent acts were triggered by the revelation that another person, sometimes with whom he has been sexually involved, is transgendered,” she explained.
Gay panic or trans panic are not defenses that completely exonerate a defendant, legal experts explained. Rather, they are used as mitigating factors to lessen the severity of the punishment or charge — often from first-degree murder to manslaughter. Neither is a recognized legal defense like self-defense or insanity, they said.
“Most cases invoking Homosexual Panic Disorder as a defense are really insanity defenses based on Acute Aggression Panic Disorder, a different disorder in which the person suffers from a predominating aggressive drive,” wrote Peter Nicolas, a law professor at the University of Washington, in his article, “‘They Say He’s Gay’: The Admissibility of Evidence of Sexual Orientation.”
Homosexual Panic Disorder derived from psychiatrist Edward J. Kempf during World War I. It lost its medical legitimacy when homosexuality was removed from diagnostic books as a mental disorder.
“According to Kempf, there are two character traits required for a diagnosis of Homosexual Panic Disorder: the individual must have a pronounced fear of his own homosexuality, and this terror must coexist with the individual’s fear of heterosexuality,” Nicolas wrote.
However, unlike Homosexual Panic Disorder, many defendants who employ the gay panic or trans panic strategy do not claim to be gay. Also, Kempf found that his subjects became self-loathing and withdrawn, not violent.
Gay panic and trans panic have no medical basis, according to Matthew Weissman, a clinical psychologist based in Washington, D.C., who specializes in sexuality.
“There is no such thing as gay panic or trans panic in any kind of professional manual,” he said. “It’s primarily a construction of the legal profession.”
He added that a person who commits a violent act with no rational provocation may suffer from psychosis or another type of mental disorder.
“Whenever I hear about people who panic and become violent you need to look at the underlying personality,” Weissman said. “Because most people coming home with the wrong person, they excuse themselves.”
Ruthann Robson, author of “Lesbian (Out)Law: Survival Under the Rule of Law” and an expert in lesbian legal theory, said that gay panic or trans panic should be considered by the courts in the same way they weigh any irrational reaction but it should not be considered a reasonable response.
“It can explain your state of mind,” she said. “It should be put in the same category as a person who is troubled by aliens or people who wore blue shirts.”
She continued: “When we say something is a defense it means a reasonable person would justifiably be panicked by being close to a gay person.”
Gay panic and trans panic have been used, with differing results, in several high profile cases, like the Matthew Shepard case, the Jenny Jones trial and the Gwen Araujo case in Alameda County, Calif.
In the Araujo case, four friends allegedly murdered Gwen, a teenager, after they discovered she was biologically male. They allegedly beat her with a skillet, their hands and a shovel. Prosecutors aggressively pursued the case, but the jury deadlocked on first-degree or second-degree murder, rejecting the manslaughter charge; the second trial went to the jury this week.
“The performance of the different offices are on opposite ends of the spectrum,” said Daley in a statement comparing the Araujo and Robles cases. “In Fresno County we have what seems to be a near abdication of their responsibilities.”
Robert Ellis, assistant district attorney for Fresno County, said that in the Robles’ case “we believed we ran significant risks at trial.”
He wouldn’t specify what those risks were but did say that he wouldn’t “characterize one statement as primary.”
“It’s fair to say that issues regarding the victim’s status were certainly talked about in the case in terms of a potential defense,” he said.
It’s difficult to gauge the gay panic defense’s success rate, which often varies based on geography, Daley said. He and other California gay rights advocates are working to eliminate this variability and ban it from the courtroom altogether through legislative action.
The California legislation would function similarly to rape shield laws, which prohibit some discussion of a victim’s sexual history, explained Shannon Minter, legal director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights.
“They can do the same in violent crimes against gays or trans persons,” he said. “Bias and prejudice cannot lawfully be used to lessen someone’s offense.”
David Rubin, a deputy district attorney in San Diego County, agreed that gay panic or trans panic are not legitimate defenses.
“The defense is truly aimed at exploiting the lowest, basest, most prejudiced reactions of the jurors,” he said.
However, while some say the strategy can exploit jurors’ homophobia, they believe it should still be permissible.
“Any defendant or lawyer who advances this type of defense without sufficient psychological evidence is asking for jury nullification,” said Jack King, public affairs director for the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.
But, King added, while he opposes the strategy, legislation barring it would violate a defendant’s constitutional right to a defense, much like the early rape shield laws that had to be reinterpreted by the courts to pass constitutional muster.

[Nord]

Man gets four years for killing trans woman
Prosecutors accept plea in face of ‘trans panic’ defense
By ELIZABETH WEILL-GREENBERG
Friday, September 02, 2005
Last August, when Estanislao Martinez, then 23, discovered that the person he went home with — 29-year-old Joel Robles — was a transgendered woman, he stabbed Robles 20 times, jumped out of the window and was found walking naked along a highway, according to police.
Police discovered the victim’s body inside Robles’ Fresno apartment on Aug. 15, 2004, according to police.
Robles often went by the male name, Joel, according to California gay rights activists.
Martinez, now 24, claimed he suffered from “trans panic” and, to the surprise of the transgender rights activists, the Fresno, Calif. district attorney accepted a plea in the case. Martinez received a four-year sentence for voluntary manslaughter. He was sentenced to three years for killing Robles and one year for using scissors as a weapon, according to the Fresno Bee.
“What message does that put out about the trans community?” said Christopher Daley, director of the Transgender Law Center. “It raises the risk for trans women in that community.”
While Robles’ case can’t be changed, Daley hopes that the plea will “serve as a flashpoint for district attorneys around the state to look at this issue.”
Fighting the panic defense
Some offices already have, like Georgia’s Fulton County District Attorney’s office, which held the first ever symposium on gay panic earlier this year, called “Defeating the Gay Panic Defense.” It was inspired, in part, by the death of a gay colleague; his killer employed the gay panic defense and was acquitted.
Gay panic has traditionally been defined to mean that a “defendant’s latent homosexuality caused his violent reaction to a gay man’s advance,” according to a piece on trans panic in the Boston Third World Law Journal by Victoria Steinberg.
Trans panic is a variant of this strategy, with the defendant claiming, “his violent acts were triggered by the revelation that another person, sometimes with whom he has been sexually involved, is transgendered,” she explained.
Gay panic or trans panic are not defenses that completely exonerate a defendant, legal experts explained. Rather, they are used as mitigating factors to lessen the severity of the punishment or charge — often from first-degree murder to manslaughter. Neither is a recognized legal defense like self-defense or insanity, they said.
“Most cases invoking Homosexual Panic Disorder as a defense are really insanity defenses based on Acute Aggression Panic Disorder, a different disorder in which the person suffers from a predominating aggressive drive,” wrote Peter Nicolas, a law professor at the University of Washington, in his article, “‘They Say He’s Gay’: The Admissibility of Evidence of Sexual Orientation.”
Homosexual Panic Disorder derived from psychiatrist Edward J. Kempf during World War I. It lost its medical legitimacy when homosexuality was removed from diagnostic books as a mental disorder.
“According to Kempf, there are two character traits required for a diagnosis of Homosexual Panic Disorder: the individual must have a pronounced fear of his own homosexuality, and this terror must coexist with the individual’s fear of heterosexuality,” Nicolas wrote.
However, unlike Homosexual Panic Disorder, many defendants who employ the gay panic or trans panic strategy do not claim to be gay. Also, Kempf found that his subjects became self-loathing and withdrawn, not violent.
Gay panic and trans panic have no medical basis, according to Matthew Weissman, a clinical psychologist based in Washington, D.C., who specializes in sexuality.
“There is no such thing as gay panic or trans panic in any kind of professional manual,” he said. “It’s primarily a construction of the legal profession.”
He added that a person who commits a violent act with no rational provocation may suffer from psychosis or another type of mental disorder.
“Whenever I hear about people who panic and become violent you need to look at the underlying personality,” Weissman said. “Because most people coming home with the wrong person, they excuse themselves.”
Ruthann Robson, author of “Lesbian (Out)Law: Survival Under the Rule of Law” and an expert in lesbian legal theory, said that gay panic or trans panic should be considered by the courts in the same way they weigh any irrational reaction but it should not be considered a reasonable response.
“It can explain your state of mind,” she said. “It should be put in the same category as a person who is troubled by aliens or people who wore blue shirts.”
She continued: “When we say something is a defense it means a reasonable person would justifiably be panicked by being close to a gay person.”
Gay panic and trans panic have been used, with differing results, in several high profile cases, like the Matthew Shepard case, the Jenny Jones trial and the Gwen Araujo case in Alameda County, Calif.
In the Araujo case, four friends allegedly murdered Gwen, a teenager, after they discovered she was biologically male. They allegedly beat her with a skillet, their hands and a shovel. Prosecutors aggressively pursued the case, but the jury deadlocked on first-degree or second-degree murder, rejecting the manslaughter charge; the second trial went to the jury this week.
“The performance of the different offices are on opposite ends of the spectrum,” said Daley in a statement comparing the Araujo and Robles cases. “In Fresno County we have what seems to be a near abdication of their responsibilities.”
Robert Ellis, assistant district attorney for Fresno County, said that in the Robles’ case “we believed we ran significant risks at trial.”
He wouldn’t specify what those risks were but did say that he wouldn’t “characterize one statement as primary.”
“It’s fair to say that issues regarding the victim’s status were certainly talked about in the case in terms of a potential defense,” he said.
It’s difficult to gauge the gay panic defense’s success rate, which often varies based on geography, Daley said. He and other California gay rights advocates are working to eliminate this variability and ban it from the courtroom altogether through legislative action.
The California legislation would function similarly to rape shield laws, which prohibit some discussion of a victim’s sexual history, explained Shannon Minter, legal director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights.
“They can do the same in violent crimes against gays or trans persons,” he said. “Bias and prejudice cannot lawfully be used to lessen someone’s offense.”
David Rubin, a deputy district attorney in San Diego County, agreed that gay panic or trans panic are not legitimate defenses.
“The defense is truly aimed at exploiting the lowest, basest, most prejudiced reactions of the jurors,” he said.
However, while some say the strategy can exploit jurors’ homophobia, they believe it should still be permissible.
“Any defendant or lawyer who advances this type of defense without sufficient psychological evidence is asking for jury nullification,” said Jack King, public affairs director for the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.
But, King added, while he opposes the strategy, legislation barring it would violate a defendant’s constitutional right to a defense, much like the early rape shield laws that had to be reinterpreted by the courts to pass constitutional muster.
Thanks HBE!!!!
Told you, come on now, Nord doesnt make stuff up,.........
except for his penis size :D :D

[Tom Brown]

There you are!!!
Late morning, or just lurking?? :confused:
Every now and then my employer enjoys having some of my attention. :D

[Jbb]

Tom.."Trans Panic"....Brown......lol :p

[HocusPocus]

Man gets four years for killing trans woman
Prosecutors accept plea in face of ‘trans panic’ defense
By ELIZABETH WEILL-GREENBERG
Friday, September 02, 2005
Last August, when Estanislao Martinez, then 23, discovered that the person he went home with — 29-year-old Joel Robles — was a transgendered woman, he stabbed Robles 20 times, jumped out of the window and was found walking naked along a highway, according to police.
Police discovered the victim’s body inside Robles’ Fresno apartment on Aug. 15, 2004, according to police.
Robles often went by the male name, Joel, according to California gay rights activists.
Martinez, now 24, claimed he suffered from “trans panic” and, to the surprise of the transgender rights activists, the Fresno, Calif. district attorney accepted a plea in the case. Martinez received a four-year sentence for voluntary manslaughter. He was sentenced to three years for killing Robles and one year for using scissors as a weapon, according to the Fresno Bee.
“What message does that put out about the trans community?” said Christopher Daley, director of the Transgender Law Center. “It raises the risk for trans women in that community.”
While Robles’ case can’t be changed, Daley hopes that the plea will “serve as a flashpoint for district attorneys around the state to look at this issue.”
Fighting the panic defense
Some offices already have, like Georgia’s Fulton County District Attorney’s office, which held the first ever symposium on gay panic earlier this year, called “Defeating the Gay Panic Defense.” It was inspired, in part, by the death of a gay colleague; his killer employed the gay panic defense and was acquitted.
Gay panic has traditionally been defined to mean that a “defendant’s latent homosexuality caused his violent reaction to a gay man’s advance,” according to a piece on trans panic in the Boston Third World Law Journal by Victoria Steinberg.
Trans panic is a variant of this strategy, with the defendant claiming, “his violent acts were triggered by the revelation that another person, sometimes with whom he has been sexually involved, is transgendered,” she explained.
Gay panic or trans panic are not defenses that completely exonerate a defendant, legal experts explained. Rather, they are used as mitigating factors to lessen the severity of the punishment or charge — often from first-degree murder to manslaughter. Neither is a recognized legal defense like self-defense or insanity, they said.
“Most cases invoking Homosexual Panic Disorder as a defense are really insanity defenses based on Acute Aggression Panic Disorder, a different disorder in which the person suffers from a predominating aggressive drive,” wrote Peter Nicolas, a law professor at the University of Washington, in his article, “‘They Say He’s Gay’: The Admissibility of Evidence of Sexual Orientation.”
Homosexual Panic Disorder derived from psychiatrist Edward J. Kempf during World War I. It lost its medical legitimacy when homosexuality was removed from diagnostic books as a mental disorder.
“According to Kempf, there are two character traits required for a diagnosis of Homosexual Panic Disorder: the individual must have a pronounced fear of his own homosexuality, and this terror must coexist with the individual’s fear of heterosexuality,” Nicolas wrote.
However, unlike Homosexual Panic Disorder, many defendants who employ the gay panic or trans panic strategy do not claim to be gay. Also, Kempf found that his subjects became self-loathing and withdrawn, not violent.
Gay panic and trans panic have no medical basis, according to Matthew Weissman, a clinical psychologist based in Washington, D.C., who specializes in sexuality.
“There is no such thing as gay panic or trans panic in any kind of professional manual,” he said. “It’s primarily a construction of the legal profession.”
He added that a person who commits a violent act with no rational provocation may suffer from psychosis or another type of mental disorder.
“Whenever I hear about people who panic and become violent you need to look at the underlying personality,” Weissman said. “Because most people coming home with the wrong person, they excuse themselves.”
Ruthann Robson, author of “Lesbian (Out)Law: Survival Under the Rule of Law” and an expert in lesbian legal theory, said that gay panic or trans panic should be considered by the courts in the same way they weigh any irrational reaction but it should not be considered a reasonable response.
“It can explain your state of mind,” she said. “It should be put in the same category as a person who is troubled by aliens or people who wore blue shirts.”
She continued: “When we say something is a defense it means a reasonable person would justifiably be panicked by being close to a gay person.”
Gay panic and trans panic have been used, with differing results, in several high profile cases, like the Matthew Shepard case, the Jenny Jones trial and the Gwen Araujo case in Alameda County, Calif.
In the Araujo case, four friends allegedly murdered Gwen, a teenager, after they discovered she was biologically male. They allegedly beat her with a skillet, their hands and a shovel. Prosecutors aggressively pursued the case, but the jury deadlocked on first-degree or second-degree murder, rejecting the manslaughter charge; the second trial went to the jury this week.
“The performance of the different offices are on opposite ends of the spectrum,” said Daley in a statement comparing the Araujo and Robles cases. “In Fresno County we have what seems to be a near abdication of their responsibilities.”
Robert Ellis, assistant district attorney for Fresno County, said that in the Robles’ case “we believed we ran significant risks at trial.”
He wouldn’t specify what those risks were but did say that he wouldn’t “characterize one statement as primary.”
“It’s fair to say that issues regarding the victim’s status were certainly talked about in the case in terms of a potential defense,” he said.
It’s difficult to gauge the gay panic defense’s success rate, which often varies based on geography, Daley said. He and other California gay rights advocates are working to eliminate this variability and ban it from the courtroom altogether through legislative action.
The California legislation would function similarly to rape shield laws, which prohibit some discussion of a victim’s sexual history, explained Shannon Minter, legal director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights.
“They can do the same in violent crimes against gays or trans persons,” he said. “Bias and prejudice cannot lawfully be used to lessen someone’s offense.”
David Rubin, a deputy district attorney in San Diego County, agreed that gay panic or trans panic are not legitimate defenses.
“The defense is truly aimed at exploiting the lowest, basest, most prejudiced reactions of the jurors,” he said.
However, while some say the strategy can exploit jurors’ homophobia, they believe it should still be permissible.
“Any defendant or lawyer who advances this type of defense without sufficient psychological evidence is asking for jury nullification,” said Jack King, public affairs director for the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.
But, King added, while he opposes the strategy, legislation barring it would violate a defendant’s constitutional right to a defense, much like the early rape shield laws that had to be reinterpreted by the courts to pass constitutional muster.
he got 4 years.. seems like he is getting his punishment to me. it wasn't like he went home.. came back with a gun.. and shot him.
thanks for the article. :)

[core attitude]

Claims some sort of temporary sanity over gay shock!!!!!
So let's get this right......if he would have stayed crazy he would have gone down instead of up the river? :eek:

[Nord]

So let get this right......if he would have stayed crazy he would have gone down instead of up the river? :eek:
lmao :boxed: :rollside:

[superdave013]

4 years for killing someone is bullshit I think. I don't care who or what they are. If you kill a person that is not harming you then you should get more then 4 years.
I just found out last Sunday that I guy I used to race with and had lost track of killed his girlfriend! (I'm still a lil freaked out about that news) He got 25 to life! That sounds more like it to me.

[moneysucker]

Personally, I don't give a rats @$$ if someone is queer or tranny whatever. They are running a high risk by not making it known to anyone who they may become involved with. This does not mean they deserve to be killed when the startled assailent finds out. I would not object to a slight beating Like you would to a normal man who wrongs you. Unfortunately, there is a defense to every crime and they will be used until they are used up. You must also look where he was tried too. He did the crime in Fresno and in that county as well as many other central valley comunities, There are a lot of farmers, ranchers and basically older values are still observed and some activities are not as readily accepted as they are in the larger annonymis societies that we have in the larger cities. If this case was tried in LA or ESPECIALLY in SF there would have been a much harsher punishment from the liberals. What ever. It is over. 2 lives ruined.

[cain129]

Just heard of this, this is what happened to my knowledge.....
Guy goes out with a girl, they drink, have a good time.
Go back to a house (which one I'm not sure) and start fooling around.
Guy finds out girl is a dude and stabs it 20 times with scissors killing it.
Claims some sort of temporary sanity over gay shock!!!!!
4 years is the term, then he walks.
I'm not sure what I think yet,
do you guys think this is justified??? :confused:
**** YEA :cry: :devil: