Unions Just Suck!!!

[mickeyfinn]

Can you imagine working for a company that has filed bankruptcy and has openly told the world that a strike would likely kill cause the company to close and then your union starts to seriously talk about doing just that?...Just amazing. Bet if the guys at the bargaining table would be unemployed if the company goes under they would be singing a different song. And to think the union is supposed to look after its members.:
News Sponsored by:
Delta Union Chiefs Ask Members to Authorize Strike
ATLANTA (AP) The executive committee of the pilots union at Delta Air Lines voted unanimously to ask rank-and-file members to authorize a strike.
Lee Moak, chairman of the executive committee, said the decision came after a day-long closed-door meeting in New York.
Union leaders want the right to strike if the struggling carrier succeeds in voiding their contract in bankruptcy court.
Delta filed for bankruptcy protection in New York on September 14th. The airline wants to reject the contract so it can impose $325 million in concessions on its 6,000 pilots, which would include a 19 percent pay cut.
The pilots, who are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, initially offered almost $91 million in average annual concessions over four years. They have since reviewed their proposal and now value it at $150 million, which would include a nine percent pay cut for seven months followed by lower cuts thereafter.
The cuts would be on top of $1 billion in annual concessions the pilots agreed to last year.
The airline has said a strike by its pilots would put the company out of business. It believes a strike would violate the Railway Labor Act. The union has argued that if its contract is thrown out by the court, it would be allowed to strike.

[GHT]

I agree with the title.... For sure.... I can get, keep, progress, succeed, and negotiate my own deals / jobs. I don't need some Union that is claiming or almost bankrupt to work for me. I'll take my chances with the employer.
Besides who are you going to trust the employer giving you money or the union TAKING YOUR money?????

[GHT]

Although Unions HAVE done a lot for this country by protecting employees (in the past). But there are MANY laws in place that do that now.

[Infomaniac]

Since when do unions care if they kill the company or not?
Some Eastern Airline employees put up signs that said "We Won" after the strike killed the Airline.
:idea: :idea: :idea:

[Ziggy]

Although Unions HAVE done a lot for this country by protecting employees (in the past). But there are MANY laws in place that do that now.
Couldn't have said it better........their usefullness has run its course. Bet anything the Union bosses have nicer stuff than you, especially when you're out walking the curbs with stick signs feeding wife and kids TopRamin.
:rolleyes: BS

[nodigg]

UNIONS are outdated antiquated and counter-productive! Okay, IMO!

[ahhell]

UNIONS are outdated antiquated and counter-productive! Okay, IMO!
I agree with your humble opinion...pay as ability affords
31 bucks an hour for a novice back hoe operator...gimme a fukking break
no wonder everything cost so much...supporting a bunch of union bosses

[Sleek-Jet]

Whether or not the union strikes, Delta is probably done for. Full service carriers are a thing of the past.

[nodigg]

I agree with your humble opinion...pay as ability affords
31 bucks an hour for a novice back hoe operator...gimme a fukking break
no wonder everything cost so much...supporting a bunch of union bosses
I gotta say I was pretty shocked when I rolled in to Havi to set up shop 5 years ago at how cheap you could (THEN) get dirt pushed in this part of the country!

[THOR]

I just love it how people who arent in unions bad mouth them. I find it funny and kind of ironic how scab guys, wearing short, no hard hat, t shirts are always the ones getting hurt and/or killed. There are many more injuries on non union job than union job. Product for large commercial stuff is better too.

[nodigg]

I have a withdrawal card from teamsters and the retail clearks and the postal carriers. I have gone up against the teamster strikers as well when i union busted a few years back. (now that was fun) I HATED having to be in a union. I am a WORKER! I don't need someone to "protect my job". A worker gets what he earns. I hated that slackers got paid the same as I did for calling in sick when they were most needed cause they could get away with it. I think I found a topic close to my values! :rollside:

[olbiezer]

a worker gets what he earns? man u got to come down to earth and smell the coffee......

[THOR]

I dont know what union your were in but hourly employees dont get paid if they call in sick. Are you inferring that union workers dont work. Do you have any concrete or carpentry skills. I'll put you to work and earn a hard eight hours worth of pay that will make you feel like you were in a fight.

[Biglue]

a worker gets what he earns? man u got to come down to earth and smell the coffee......
No he's exactly right. If you are so capapable you will earn what you ask for without union rep. Just my .02

[JetBoatRich]

I was on a Delta flight last week, when the hotel shuttle picked me up :rolleyes: he stopped for others who happened to be the pilot and captain from my plane :rolleyes: . The ride over was interesting, they were not happy people :mad:
Never worked for a Union and in some jobs I am sure the help protect employees.

[Infomaniac]

a worker gets what he earns? man u got to come down to earth and smell the coffee......
Earns??? What company that has collective bargening agreement employees can promote the ones that EARN a raise or promotion. Gotta be by seniority man. Get your raise or promotion by doin your time. Not by earning it.

[nodigg]

I dont know what union your were in but hourly employees dont get paid if they call in sick. Are you inferring that union workers dont work. Do you have any concrete or carpentry skills. I'll put you to work and earn a hard eight hours worth of pay that will make you feel like you were in a fight.
Let's see, I pour concrete daily, wish 8 hour days would get the work done....
Every time a union jack gets a raise, we all pay for it, no one seems to get it.
Unions are the reason we have inflation.

[nodigg]

a worker gets what he earns? man u got to come down to earth and smell the coffee......
If one does not like the job he has chosen, go find one you do like. People should stop asking for hand outs and help them selves to the american dreams.

[Infomaniac]

I just love it how people who arent in unions bad mouth them. I find it funny and kind of ironic how scab guys, wearing short, no hard hat, t shirts are always the ones getting hurt and/or killed. There are many more injuries on non union job than union job. Product for large commercial stuff is better too.
LMAO man. More work being done = more injuries.

[Biglue]

This is gonna get just as good as the other 4000 union threads. :crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :crossx:

[nodigg]

Earns??? What company that has collective bargening agreement employees can promote the ones that EARN a raise or promotion. Gotta be by seniority man. Get your raise or promotion by doin your time. Not by earning it.
I'm not sure you are serious or not. Kinda funny though, to get a raise or promotion based only on time spent and not effort, talent, training, cooperation or atitude....

[nodigg]

LMAO man. More work being done = more injuries.
Its hard to get hurt on the job when you spend your on duty time going to the bathroom and witing up grievances so you can get the most of your breaks and lunches....

[olbiezer]

lets see nodiggggg all managers are hailo wearing angels and all union guys are greedie nasty money sucking slackers that just suck money up for no work........now is that it?

[Charley]

Wouldn't it be funny if the striking Union is what saved the company?? let em strike so my two brothers in law(as well as thousands of others) can get hired.... after getting layed off from United, and realizing good jobs don't grow on trees, they would both take a lower paying non union job...Let Delta hire em at .70 on the dollar and pull themselves together again!

[THOR]

Let's see, I pour concrete daily, wish 8 hour days would get the work done....
Every time a union jack gets a raise, we all pay for it, no one seems to get it.
Unions are the reason we have inflation.
Hmmm, that is funny. Most economists would say it is supply and demand. I will have to tell Greenspan that unions are the fault for inflation. Pouring concrete? I am not talking about patio brother. Big jobs. When is the last time you poured 1000 yards in a day? I will go out on a limb and say NEVER.

[Infomaniac]

I'm not sure you are serious or not. Kinda funny though, to get a raise or promotion based only on time spent and not effort, talent, training, cooperation or atitude....
Yea I'm serious. Airline union jobs work like that. You "bid" on the job opening. The most senior person gets it. Not the most qualified or hardest working person. Seniority rules.

[THOR]

LMAO man. More work being done = more injuries.
Scab, untrained, unskilled = more injuries. Union jobs are much safer.

[olbiezer]

charley i thought the same thing many years ago but, the same asswholes that ran the company into bankruptsy court will still be in charge and your brother in laws will start a union for better working conditions in about 3 years........just ask the air traffic controllers that stayed after the 81 strike.....it was necessary.........

[Biglue]

Wouldn't it be funny if the striking Union is what saved the company?? let em strike so my two brothers in law(as well as thousands of others) can get hired.... after getting layed off from United, and realizing good jobs don't grow on trees, they would both take a lower paying non union job...Let Delta hire em at .70 on the dollar and pull themselves together again!
Where is there union rep now?????
Not being sarcastic towards you BIL's but simply stating a point for the pro union folks.

[THOR]

Its hard to get hurt on the job when you spend your on duty time going to the bathroom and witing up grievances so you can get the most of your breaks and lunches....
Where do you work dude? You have a misconception that unions in construction are like Walmart unions. Walk onto a carpenters union job, sheet metal job, iron workers job. I say you last four minutes.

[nodigg]

lets see nodiggggg all managers are hailo wearing angels and all union guys are greedie nasty money sucking slackers that just suck money up for no work........now is that it?
Wow, how did you pull that from what I typed?? I knew I should have stayed in school in stead of joining the union at 16! Then maybe I could expalin myself better!

[THOR]

Wouldn't it be funny if the striking Union is what saved the company?? let em strike so my two brothers in law(as well as thousands of others) can get hired.... after getting layed off from United, and realizing good jobs don't grow on trees, they would both take a lower paying non union job...Let Delta hire em at .70 on the dollar and pull themselves together again!
You are way too logical to be in this thread Charley. Go back to C&T. :cool:

[olbiezer]

oh btw delta pilots will be working for 49 percent of there former pay if this all goes through so dont count on your brother in laws working for 70 cents on the dollar ....more like 30 cents on the dollar......

[ahhell]

Im not versed on unions, but I watched 2 very close (husband and wife) friends loose EVERYTHING(house, cars, way of life), when the grocery stores went on strike...yeah they even scabbed at non striking stores...no thanks
nothing like picking up a friend so he can do labor work at a construction site, after being a store manager

[nodigg]

Where do you work dude? You have a misconception that union in construction are like Walmart unions. Walk onto a carpenters union job, sheet metal job, iron workers job. I say you last four minutes.
Cool, now we got us a personal thing! lol! As I said, I have worked union for years, that's why I feel I have the right to say they do more harm than good in todays world. Where do I work? Why, you wanna send a mobster down to unionize my work so they can get their fare share of the pension fund?

[nodigg]

Im not versed on unions, but I watched 2 very close (husband and wife) friends loose EVERYTHING(house, cars, way of life), when the grocery stores went on strike...yeah they even scabbed at non striking stores...no thanks
nothing like picking up a friend so he can do labor work at a construction site, after being a store manager
I was a retail clerk for five years. I felt no sympathy for those peeps. (Well, okay, a littel if they lost their way of life after the unions forced them to strike and they may have not voted to do so). That was a hell of a job they had going for themselves. I remember being the highest paid young man around in high school and later. GREAT benefits.

[THOR]

Cool, now we got us a personal thing! lol! As I said, I have worked union for years, that's why I feel I have the right to say they do more harm than good in todays world. Where do I work? Why, you wanna send a mobster down to unionize my work so they can get their fare share of the pension fund?
Sorry Nodigg, it isnt personal brother. I was merely saying that side work concrete is much easier that union jobs that are large that have regulations regarding psi, rebar thickness, etc. I laugh when I see guys pooring concrete that have no idea what they are doing.
Who said anything about a mobster. We arent in the 1920's anymore. Hoffa is dead. Union guys just dont like scabs working for less and doing shitty jobs.

[Biglue]

I was a retail clerk for five years. I felt no sympathy for those peeps. (Well, okay, a littel if they lost their way of life after the unions forced them to strike and they may have not voted to do so). That was a hell of a job they had going for themselves. I remember being the highest paid young man around in high school and later. GREAT benefits.
UFCW??????

[nodigg]

Sorry Nodigg, it isnt personal brother. I was merely saying that side work concrete is much easier that union jobs that are large that have regulations regarding psi, rebar thickness, etc. I laugh when I see guys pooring concrete that have no idea what they are doing.
Who said anything about a mobster. We arent in the 1920's anymore. Hoffa is dead. Union guys just dont like scabs working for less and doing shitty jobs.
Come on Brotha', don't call me a scab, I'm an independent kinda guy! I don't poor inferior, I pour the best! Higher psi and no hot loads. IMO, unons HAD a purpose when 12 year old kids were sewing in poorly lit factories 15 hrs a day. Now it all about how far they can push the price of goods and services up so they can get more. (Inflation)

[nodigg]

UFCW??????
If I remember correctly, it was the retail clerks union? at the time. Shite, I can't remember even any more. 1972- 1977 or so. Buena Park, CA

[Focker]

My 2 Cents
My Dad Was A Gm Union Lifer
Worked For A Gm Owned Cad Dealer 7th And Union St In La
Gm Sold The Dealership To Pvt Party (thomas Cadillac)
All Union Benefits Tossed
Strike Lasted In My Mine Forever
Got Shit Each Week For Benefits In Other Words Strike Benefits Are Null
Union Finally Sold Out And Employees Got Nothing
My Memory
Dude Shoot Between The Eyes Trying To Rob A Liqour Store That My Dad And I Walked Into After A ****en Union Meeting That They Told My Dad They Sold And Settled.
My Dad Died At 42 Years Old And The Union Told My Mom To
**** Off

[THOR]

Come on Brotha', don't call me a scab, I'm an independent kinda guy! I don't poor inferior, I pour the best! Higher psi and no hot loads. IMO, unons HAD a purpose when 12 year old kids were sewing in poorly lit factories 15 hrs a day. Now it all about how far they can push the price of goods and services up so they can get more. (Inflation)
Sorry to burst your bubble but inflation isnt caused by unions. Also, name one contractor that can pour 1000+ yards in a day. Or have the pull go get that much mud to a job. You honestly dont have a clue what construction unions do. You just hate them do to your misconception. No mob ties anymore, no slackers filing grievance in the job trailers, non of that. Just large commerical work getting done that independent guys not only can bid, but can man and arent qualified to work on. They just arent trainer properly to do large commercial stuff. That isnt a slam, just reality.

[nodigg]

My 2 Cents
My Dad Was A Gm Union Lifer
Worked For A Gm Owned Cad Dealer 7th And Union St In La
Gm Sold The Dealership To Pvt Party (thomas Cadillac)
All Union Benefits Tossed
Strike Lasted In My Mine Forever
Got Shit Each Week For Benefits In Other Words Strike Benefits Are Null
Union Finally Sold Out And Employees Got Nothing
My Memory
Dude Shoot Between The Eyes Trying To Rob A Liqour Store That My Dad And I Walked Into After A ****en Union Meeting That They Told My Dad They Sold And Settled.
My Dad Died At 42 Years Old And The Union Told My Mom To
**** Off
That SUCKS!
Unions, a false sense of security!

[THOR]

No Two Gates....

[Biglue]

If I remember correctly, it was the retail clerks union? at the time. Shite, I can't remember even any more. 1972- 1977 or so. Buena Park, CA
Worked for Lucky's supermarkets through HS. It's why I was asking. They actually required a minimum of 16 hours to maintain union benefits but sometimes that is all the hours I was scheduled. But they still took their money......month in month out. As soon as you worked I think at least 32 hours/week after a month staright you were considered full time. Well after 3 weeks they would cut your hours scheduled. Can't really say I ever benefited from working with a union. it was all a BS game.

[Biglue]

My 2 Cents
My Dad Was A Gm Union Lifer
Worked For A Gm Owned Cad Dealer 7th And Union St In La
Gm Sold The Dealership To Pvt Party (thomas Cadillac)
All Union Benefits Tossed
Strike Lasted In My Mine Forever
Got Shit Each Week For Benefits In Other Words Strike Benefits Are Null
Union Finally Sold Out And Employees Got Nothing
My Memory
Dude Shoot Between The Eyes Trying To Rob A Liqour Store That My Dad And I Walked Into After A ****en Union Meeting That They Told My Dad They Sold And Settled.
My Dad Died At 42 Years Old And The Union Told My Mom To
**** Off
Worked for a manager that used to work for GE. He told me about a strike that lasted years. When he finally went back to work he didn't gain anything and lost benefits and stuff like that. He almost lost his home. Many of his friends suffered worse that him. Lost everything basically.

[nodigg]

Sorry to burst your bubble but inflation isnt caused by unions. Also, name one contractor that can pour 1000+ yards in a day. Or have the pull go get that much mud to a job. You honestly dont have a clue what construction unions do. You just hate them do to your misconception. No mob ties anymore, no slackers filing grievance in the job trailers, non of that. Just large commerical work getting done that independent guys not only can bid, but can man and arent qualified to work on. They just arent trainer properly to do large commercial stuff. That isnt a slam, just reality.
Damn, you sure like to tell me how much I don't understand T. You obviously don't have a clue how much I DO know, but hey, (If) there were no unions, there would be no problem getting the work done. The unions keep the small guys from getting the work because they control so much in construction. We don't use unions out here and the jobs get done. I wonder How we mangaed all these years without Jimmy backing us up? Oh my gawd, I'll bet this city will die unless someone gets the unions in here quick! I don't hate unions, i feel sorry for those that are stuck being forced to belong to them and subjected to their propaganda machines. Obviosuly there are dedicated workers who happend to also belong to unions. I just feel they are generally detrimental to todays America.

[nodigg]

Worked for Lucky's supermarkets through HS. It's why I was asking. They actually required a minimum of 16 hours to maintain union benefits but sometimes that is all the hours I was scheduled. But they still took their money......month in month out. As soon as you worked I think at least 32 hours/week after a month staright you were considered full time. Well after 3 weeks they would cut your hours scheduled. Can't really say I ever benefited from working with a union. it was all a BS game.
I always wanted to work for Lucky's. I was at Thriftimart. They couldn't compete with the big union stores and went under a few years after I left.
Union=false sense of security.

[THOR]

Damn, you sure like to tell me how much I don't understand T. You obviously don't have a clue how much I DO know, but hey, (If) there were no unions, there would be no problem getting the work done. The unions keep the small guys from getting the work because they control so much in construction. We don't use unions out here and the jobs get done. I wonder How we mangaed all these years without Jimmy backing us up? Oh my gawd, I'll bet this city will die unless someone gets the unions in here quick! I don't hate unions, i feel sorry for those that are stuck being forced to belong to them and subjected to their propaganda machines. Obviosuly there are dedicated workers who happend to also belong to unions. I just feel they are generally detrimental to todays America.
I agree to disagree then. I see many more commercial jobs that are union than not. Name one hospital, large parking structure, casino, etc that is non union? Cant be done. Why? Non union guys can man up a job and will spend half the day fighting with inspectors getting things signed off because they are wrong.
I'll quit picking on you now, I dont want you to bleed. :)

[olbiezer]

ya must be those peskie inflationary unions that u used to be in there nordigggg

[Biglue]

I always wanted to work for Lucky's. I was at Thriftimart. They couldn't compete with the big union stores and went under a few years after I left.
Union=false sense of security.
They really are. They cannot guarantee to offer what the company is not willing to offer or afford...........bottom line. People just don't get it. It's not the union that pays for benefits and pensions.

[nodigg]

I agree to disagree then. I see many more commercial jobs that are union than not. Name one hospital, large parking structure, casino, etc that is non union? Cant be done. Why? Non union guys can man up a job and will spend half the day fighting with inspectors getting things signed off because they are wrong.
I'll quit picking on you now, I dont want you to bleed. :)
No sweat, just a dialogue of two differing opinions based upon each individuals experiences in the work place, and their inferences drawn as a result. If I was more learned, I would call it debate. Not to worry about the blood, I work for a living.
DAMN THESE LAP TOP KEYS ANYWAY!

[nodigg]

ya must be those peskie inflationary unions that u used to be in there nordigggg
I wuz alwayz a triein ta drive up the prices soes Iz could gets mea raze.

[Biglue]

Sorry to burst your bubble but inflation isnt caused by unions. Also, name one contractor that can pour 1000+ yards in a day. Or have the pull go get that much mud to a job. You honestly dont have a clue what construction unions do. You just hate them do to your misconception. No mob ties anymore, no slackers filing grievance in the job trailers, non of that. Just large commerical work getting done that independent guys not only can bid, but can man and arent qualified to work on. They just arent trainer properly to do large commercial stuff. That isnt a slam, just reality.
That's not true bro. There will always be mob ties. IT IS a racket.
Back in the early 90's the teamsters were still the no 1 Mob affiliated union. They tried to organize us and the big wigs hired a dude to talk us out of voting the union in. Huge propaganda back and forth. I just don't see myself giving my money to a guy who drives a nicer car than me for a I ALREADY HAVE. Does that make sense?

[nodigg]

They really are. They cannot guarantee to offer what the company is not willing to offer or afford...........bottom line. People just don't get it. It's not the union that pays for benefits and pensions.
The clerks union negotiates a raise for the union members. Yeah! :rollside:
Now the food price goes up to cover the raises given. The carpenters now have to get a raise so they can maintain their standard of living while paying more for food. The cost of houses has to increase so the retail clerks have to get a new raise so they can afford to buy a house, and so on, and so forth, and again, and again till your paying a million dollars in Orange County for the house your dad bought for 12 grand......

[Racer277]

When a company I worked for went union, our productivity dropped, but our labor costs nearly doubled. Using the same techs we had all along. :mad: They just became union workers (brothers? comrads?).
Then the union came to me, asking me to teach classes at the hall on installation. WTF? :argue: Our techs were better than the ones in the hall...

[MagicMtnDan]

btw that 19 percent paycut for the pilots is on top of a 30 percent paycut they got last year can u live on half pay? how many of delta's top exutives took a 50 per cent pay cut? id really like to know.
It's not about the unions or the executives taking pay cuts. It's about a company being managed well during good and bad times. After 9/11 the airlines were killed by lost ticket sales and then rising fuel prices. Plus the big airlines were not competitive with the others (like Southwest which is now a big airline).
Sure unions suck but businesses must be run profitably by management whether or not they have unions.

[nodigg]

When a company I worked for went union, our productivity dropped, but our labor costs nearly doubled. Using the same techs we had all along. :mad: They just became union workers (brothers? comrads?).
Then the union came to me, asking me to teach classes at the hall on installation. WTF? :argue: Our techs were better than the ones in the hall...
I think your biased Sean! lol!

[Racer277]

Every week I reply to bids that require me to pay $28/hour to techs that can do the job for $15/hour....

[nodigg]

WTF! Its past my bedtime, gotta get some sleep so I can pour some bad concrete tommorrow! Maybe a union guy will show up and show me how to getter' done properly.

[nodigg]

Every week I reply to bids that require me to pay $28/hour to techs that can do the job for $15/hour....
Government jobs are something are they not?

[olbiezer]

delta airlines has been going down hill sence ron allen took over many years ago.......i agree with you dan some buisnesses will go under even if they are not union.....

[Racer277]

:mad: :mad: :mad: Government jobs are something are they not?

[nodigg]

Every week I reply to bids that require me to pay $28/hour to techs that can do the job for $15/hour....
Is your shinney metal ass still in Havi tonight?

[Racer277]

Is your shinney metal ass still in Havi tonight?
Negative, worked Barstow today, back in Bako tonight....
Fit the truck with boat attached in the garage. That made my week!
It's a small boat though....

[olbiezer]

Government jobs are something are they not?
man u lost me on that one........yes gov jobs are something and they pay very little on average.......oh ya for your info most gov jobs are run by non union guys that got there position by sucking up to there buddies that sucked up to there buddies that were there before them and sucked up to get the peter principle going......your average social security worker makes alot less then it takes to live in calif........thats a different matter though.....like in real estate " location, location, location........

[djunkie]

YAAAA!!!! F-UNIONS!!!! :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[HOOTER SLED-]

YAAAA!!!! F-UNIONS!!!! :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
Union worker=lazy fools. :D :devil: :devil: :devil:

[djunkie]

Union worker=lazy fools. :D :devil: :devil: :devil:
:hammerhea Come up on that ship with me tonight and finish lashing it. We'll see if you still think I'm lazy. :crossx:

[HOOTER SLED-]

:hammerhea Come up on that ship with me tonight and finish lashing it. We'll see if you still think I'm lazy. :crossx:
Man, that shit ain't hard work, it's just dangerous. :D WHat about the rest of the jobs?? :crossx:

[Focker]

Union worker=lazy fools. :D :devil: :devil: :devil:
UNION WORKERS ARE GREAT PEOPLE
UNIONS TAKE ADVANTAGE AND MISLEAD EVERYONE AND ARE THE GUILTY BASTARDS

[Biglue]

Man, that shit ain't hard work, it's just dangerous. :D WHat about the rest of the jobs?? :crossx:
Especially if you can't speak ingles. :crossx: :crossx:

[Outnumbered]

This ought to stir up some $hit:
:p :p :p
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/973ghettoair-lbwu.JPG

[bordsmnj]

hey hire a scab electrician to do your electrical. then call me to fix it. i get a good laugh. i used to run work for 15 dollars an hour. now i make over double that and don't have to supply all the tools, beat my truck up and listen to bullshit about how the company is"working on getting" benifits for us employees. if you don't like my union you can kiss my ****in ass. i got a call the other day from a guy who thought he was doing me a favor by offering me a job as an electrician for 10 dollars an hour. i guess he meant well. i guess i'm mislead.

[LUVNLIFE]

I agree with your humble opinion...pay as ability affords
31 bucks an hour for a novice back hoe operator...gimme a fukking break
no wonder everything cost so much...supporting a bunch of union bosses
31 dollars an hour is journeyman pay not apprentice(novice) pay. The thing is if the guy doesn't cut it send him back to the hall and call out another one. That's why they have an out of work list to hire off of.

[LUVNLIFE]

Where do you work dude? You have a misconception that unions in construction are like Walmart unions. Walk onto a carpenters union job, sheet metal job, iron workers job. I say you last four minutes.
Thor brings alot of good points up. We do underground pipeline and if you are not pulling your weight and busting ass then down the road you go. No grievence is filled you are just not a good worker. We watch some of our non-union counterparts and wonder how they even survive with the bullshit they pull, bad workmanship and trying to sneak things by.

[LUVNLIFE]

That's not true bro. There will always be mob ties. IT IS a racket.
Back in the early 90's the teamsters were still the no 1 Mob affiliated union. They tried to organize us and the big wigs hired a dude to talk us out of voting the union in. Huge propaganda back and forth. I just don't see myself giving my money to a guy who drives a nicer car than me for a I ALREADY HAVE. Does that make sense?
If they really were mob related that dude as you call him would have disappeared. Maybe he drives a better car than you because he has a better job than you, or maybe he gets paid what he's worth :rolleyes: :boxed:

[Cat Skinner]

Union worker=lazy fools. :D :devil: :devil: :devil:
How about we send you off a 200' foot cut with about 350,000# strapped to your ass. Hell any non union schmuck can do that!

[LUVNLIFE]

When a company I worked for went union, our productivity dropped, but our labor costs nearly doubled. Using the same techs we had all along. :mad: They just became union workers (brothers? comrads?).
Then the union came to me, asking me to teach classes at the hall on installation. WTF? :argue: Our techs were better than the ones in the hall...
Sounds like bad management :rolleyes: :D :D :D

[GHT]

Hmmm, that is funny. Most economists would say it is supply and demand. I will have to tell Greenspan that unions are the fault for inflation. Pouring concrete? I am not talking about patio brother. Big jobs. When is the last time you poured 1000 yards in a day? I will go out on a limb and say NEVER.
1,000 yards??? I would go out on a limb an say you don't do ut your self very offen, if at all. You see, if you are pouring 6" s.o.g.s (slab on grade) that would mean you would be pouring (approx.)60,000 sf. Even if you are as good as you say (no disrspect, I'm sure you are very good) there is very litle you can do to control that large of a pour. Even if you had 2 laser screed and 2 pumps (or belts). I have found that 650 yrd pours are optimum because of labor effectiveness the quality of the work is far supierior. I know thi because I have continued to work my ass off and fight for my own wages WITHOUT a union. Because of this I direct them and many others. That is the American dream.... Doing it on your own.. not with someone else holding your hand..

[LUVNLIFE]

How about we send you of a 200' foot cut with about 350,000# strapped to your ass. Hell any non union schmuck can do that!
He doesn't even know what your talking about but I do and I could do it. Seems I 've seen non-union guys end up in a pile at the bottom :p

[blackcloud75]

There are some unions that work in conjunction with their management,
Oh.................and there are some bargaining units that are forbidden by LAW to strike. Some unions are crooks but some are not. PHUCK the scab folk.
ILL TRAINED=ILL PREPARED!!!!!!!

[LUVNLIFE]

1,000 yards??? I would go out on a limb an say you don't do ut your self very offen, if at all. You see, if you are pouring 6" s.o.g.s (slab on grade) that would mean you would be pouring (approx.)60,000 sf. Even if you are as good as you say (no disrspect, I'm sure you are very good) there is very litle you can do to control that large of a pour. Even if you had 2 laser screed and 2 pumps (or belts). I have found that 650 yrd pours are optimum because of labor effectiveness the quality of the work is far supierior. I know thi because I have continued to work my ass off and fight for my own wages WITHOUT a union. Because of this I direct them and many others. That is the American dream.... Doing it on your own.. not with someone else holding your hand..
I don't think anyone holds Thor's hand. I'm sure he has gotten to the level he is at through hard work. Even in the construction unions you are not going to be put in a supervisers spot without knowing the biz and working you ass off.

[Cat Skinner]

He doesn't even know what your talking about but I do and I could do it. Seems I 've seen non-union guys end up in a pile at the bottom :p
We're hiring :cool: I like watching underground guys on scrapers. Next time you're in Nor Cal we can move some dirt over beers while on the water. CS

[LUVNLIFE]

We're hiring :cool: I like watching underground guys on scrapers. Next time you're in Nor Cal we can move some dirt over beers while on the water. CS
If not sooner then Shasta Cat Attack weekend you are on :cool:

[GHT]

I don't think anyone holds Thor's hand. I'm sure he has gotten to the level he is at through hard work. Even in the construction unions you are not going to be put in a supervisers spot without knowing the biz and working you ass off.
Don't get me wrong.. I am very familiar with unions (I drove for UPS) at one time. I very much resspect Thor and ALL other hard works and fellow HBers. I'm not here to bash anyone (nor be bashed). As we all know, just because someone doesn't believe as you do or do as you do, doesn't make them wright or wrong.
His (and everyone elses) job gets him to the lake so he can ejoy the fruits of his labor and hang with all the cool peeps on the boards. Nuff union / non union... Uts Friday... Let's drink beer.. :)

[framer1]

I just love it how people who arent in unions bad mouth them. I find it funny and kind of ironic how scab guys, wearing short, no hard hat, t shirts are always the ones getting hurt and/or killed. There are many more injuries on non union job than union job. Product for large commercial stuff is better too.
So your telling me if you wear shorts and a t-shirt to work you have a good chance of getting hurt. Spare me :argue: I'll put up a one tract framer aganst any two union carpenter, notice the different framer and carpenter.Please don't tell me how clean you frame doing something fast doesn't mean it isn't done right. I was in the carpenter union for five years and it was a total rip off. I don't care if your union or not but don't be ripping on us real framers :yuk:

[mike37]

Scab, untrained, unskilled = more injuries. Union jobs are much safer.
thats funny most of the union guys I know are the most lazy and un safe
and and don't know how to do the job half as good as the non union guys

[mike37]

and a thousand yards of concrete in footings on a large commercial job is very doable
I have don it

[nodigg]

I think its time to debate religion now! :rollside:

[Seadog]

Unions used to serve a function, but they have become like dinosaurs. Slow, lumbering and unadaptable. Not all unions are alike, which makes it hard to be definitive, but the majority are worthless. A few of my experiences:
Several relatives worked for B.F. Goodrich making tires. The union would call a strike every three years. Management would stock up for the 'scheduled' strike. My uncle would work hauling hay or other jobs to survice during the strikes, and the local businesses would suffer from lack of sales. He knew that he would not get enough from the strike to compensate for his three month 'vacation'. Competition from overseas dictated that changes be made. The company asked the union for concessions. Union say go get f***ked despite the members voting for it. The plant was closed. The area fo over 50 miles around has still not recovered after about twenty years.
My dad retired from the military and eventually went to work for a coal company. He worked up to being operations manager. He made a bunch of changes to improve the bottom line, but found that the union members were way over paid for the area. During bankruptcy proceedings , the judge agreed and made them take a 10% cut in pay. They proceeded to do 25% less work. The company finally closed. It is doing just fine as part of a non-union company.
My wife worked for the feds. They are not required to be union, but my wife was harrassed by the unions in the big offices and refused promotions because she was not union. When she worked for a small office, even though she was friendly with everyone, they would discuss important data that was supposed to be given to everyone, in the union meetings. She was not being told information that would help her do her job. Yet, the gal that was suppose to be doing the same job, would usually sit around doing little or nothing. My wife was doing work above her job level and was the go-to person in the office, but was never promoted.
I have worked for Wal-Mart. My niece word a long time for Wal-Mart. For most people it is a good job, but it is a training job for most. I wouldn't mind working part-time for Wal-Mart after I retire. If Wal-Mart has to go union, it would cost us more money to shop there and someone else would start taking over their business. We used to have meat cutters at our store and you could get great cuts of meats. Then the unions force Wal-Mart to unionize the meat cutters. Now we get generic cuts from some big company that sends the meat pre-cut to Wal-Mart.
We had a grocery store here that was union. The gal at the register was making more than most of the jobs here in town, with major benefits. She had been doing the job for decades because it paid too good to leave. They closed and she had no skill or job experience to find a job. All the register jobs could be done by young people at a lot less. There is another grocery chain there now and they are doing just fine competing.
These are just a few of the reasons why I do not care for unions. Most of the concrete and other work that I oversee being done by outside contractors are being done by wetbacks because they do good work and are cheap. Some of these jobs are several hundred yards at a time. A thousand yards is possible, but there is not a purpose to it, at least not any of the jobs I have been involved with. We keep three concrete companies going continuously during the summer. We have a lot of personel that are skilled positions and have been union electricians, carpenters, etc. They work for less money because of the benefits we offer and because they don't have to worry about being out of work for long periods during slack times.

[cougarcat]

Sure unions suck but businesses must be run profitably by management whether or not they have unions.[/QUOTE]
Exactly..........I happen to work for DAL as a AMT (16 yrs) and this used to be a great place to work before Management screwed it up. I say this because there isn't anything/anyone else to blame. No one work group ever made industry leading wages (except the pilots.......DALs only major union). Our (tech.) pay has been slashed over 20% this year alone. Our 401K match (for 16 yrs has been in company stock)..all gone. You never hear anything about what the non-contract workers have given up in the media. Guess what...it's just taken, no fanfare, no drawn out negotiations, no praise for "saving" the company. Of the nine or so major airlines (including Jet Blue, Southwest, Air Tran, etc.) our pay is 8th. Even the scabs at NW make more. We were told that we need to sacrifice....that's why our (technician) pay is 38% behind industry leading SW (union represented of course). The company is asking....key word here... our pilots to sacrifice down to the Air Tran and JetBlue pilots wages. I don't think our pilots will strike, but it's their only leverage in negotiations.
You might say that fuel, change in the industry (from LCC's), 09-11-01, etc. caused DALs mess it's in. That certainally didn't help, but what about American and Continental. Still completely unionized, full service, etc. making good money. No, it was DALs management giving themselves "retention" bonuses to keep the "team" together, bankruptsy proof pensions, changing their bonus lingo from profit making to cost savings, buying back 2.4 billion in stock, etc. when they should have been doing their damn job! Instead of getting fired, with nothing but a boot up their ass, for poor performance, they were "let go" complete with golden parachutes of their "contract". Leo Mullin walked with a 13 million severance package with untold perks. If I F-up on my job people could die and I'd be fired/probably prosecuted with nothing. He F-s up and is rewarded. Go figure.
Is a union good or bad? I've never had one but have seen the better benefits the pilot group get vs. the non-contract folk. I can see the pay being better (if I had went to school to be a pilot then.......), but when the company gives them better retirement, better 401k match, better overall benies it doesn't seem right. We all work for the same company.
I think our technician group should have a union. We shouldn't get treated differently/worse because we don't have representation. If that's how the company sees us (as sheep) then we should step up to the plate. There have got to be checks and balances in business.....which I think unions can provide. We should all share in the good times and all (including management)have to sacrifice in the bad. It's gotta be all for one at this company or we're going down.
I guess this sums it up the best.........Judge Beatty also batted aside Gallagher's argument that pay cuts already imposed on nonunion employees need to be considered. Beatty said the nonunion pay cuts have no bearing because those employees don't have a labor contract.
Sorry for the rant.............I really like my job (AMT) but am wary of the leadership and the direction we're going. Definately looking elsewhere.
CC

[Jbb]

Since when do unions care if they kill the company or not?
Some Eastern Airline employees put up signs that said "We Won" after the strike killed the Airline.
:idea: :idea: :idea:
I won...... :rolleyes:

[THOR]

That's not true bro. There will always be mob ties. IT IS a racket.
Back in the early 90's the teamsters were still the no 1 Mob affiliated union. They tried to organize us and the big wigs hired a dude to talk us out of voting the union in. Huge propaganda back and forth. I just don't see myself giving my money to a guy who drives a nicer car than me for a I ALREADY HAVE. Does that make sense?
If that is what you want to believe Big, then so be it.

[THOR]

Union worker=lazy fools. :D :devil: :devil: :devil:
:rolleyes:
Typical argument. Roll on to a scab job. That should make a good laugh. 15 guys going in 14 different directions is pure comedy.

[THOR]

hey hire a scab electrician to do your electrical. then call me to fix it. i get a good laugh. i used to run work for 15 dollars an hour. now i make over double that and don't have to supply all the tools, beat my truck up and listen to bullshit about how the company is"working on getting" benifits for us employees. if you don't like my union you can kiss my ****in ass. i got a call the other day from a guy who thought he was doing me a favor by offering me a job as an electrician for 10 dollars an hour. i guess he meant well. i guess i'm mislead.
I always liked you Bmnj. Nothing would need to be fixed if a union lazy a$$ did it the first time.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I dont know what union your were in but hourly employees dont get paid if they call in sick.
This statement only applies to unions, right? I only ask as my employer offers sick leave and vacation and bereavment and paid holidays to our hourly employees.

[framer1]

:rolleyes:
Typical argument. Roll on to a scab job. That should make a good laugh. 15 guys going in 14 different directions is pure comedy.
Sounds like the job your referring to must have a union lead man :rolleyes: Like I said if you want to be union man that's your business but don't go saying union carpenters are better than a real framer. Believe me, union carpenters aren't real framers.

[THOR]

Sounds like the job your referring to must have a union lead man :rolleyes: Like I said if you want to be union man that's your business but don't go saying union carpenters are better than a real framer. Believe me, union carpenters aren't real framers.
Framers? I see very little framing on real large carpentry jobs. Just because you are a framer, it doesnt mean you are a carpenter. Many carpenters dont pound nails and dont frame. Few are framers and many specialize in concrete. Many scab 7-eleven jobs are framing jobs. Again, I am referring to large commercial jobs which non-union guys arent on.

[DCBob]

I just got here where's the :coffeycup

[framer1]

Framers? I see very little framing on real carpentry jobs. Many scab 7-eleven jobs are framing jobs. Again, I am referring to large commercial jobs which non-union guys arent on.
:confused: What the heck are you talking about. A framer can frame anything. House, commercial building it doesn't matter. Unless of course if you can't read a set of plans it could make it a little tougher :D

[THOR]

:confused: What the heck are you talking about. A framer can frame anything. House, commercial building it doesn't matter. Unless of course if you can't read a set of plans it could make it a little tougher :D
You are right. A framer can frame. That is it.

[framer1]

You are right. A framer can frame. That is it.
Now that we got that staighten out, what's up with my maid went to USC :D Just joking, i'm a big SC fan and I have some money riding on the SC- texas game.

[Charley]

You are way too logical to be in this thread Charley. Go back to C&T. :cool:
thanks... I think??
I guess it's completely unfair to blanket how all unions operate and I agree they differ one to the other. I don't condemn all Unions, I can only look at some of the decisions they make and wonder if they are stiff arming whats truly fair. I am feeling a little biased because of personal situation I was merely a bystander too recently. I was on a job where a Union steward just refused to partially cut his crew even though the work was done. In my business It is standard practice to get the bulk of the work done, then shave back to a skeleton crew for the clean up work..... this union rep wanted to keep his crew on to make a meal deal or whatever... and refused my client what was fair and resonable. Then he proceeded to chew out my client(an extremely important person in my industry) for even asking for the cut and all in front of a good portion of the crew!!
Well here is the interesting part, and it echoes some of the recent GM/Union woes...we were in a building that has been a little slow on work lately....In fact they are trying to create a new "easier to work with image", then this occurs..... Well the guy that got refused and chewed has a fair amount of pull on whether to bring business back into this building... How do you think he is feeling about that concept? It's just ironic how something like a "Union Rule" or "Way of doing things" will shoot themselves in the foot on occasion. Instead of flexing and offering a fair solution it's the Union way or the highway... well I think and hope those days are over. The supermarkets proved an interesting point, and I wonder if the Tide isn't turning.
I want to be perfectly clear here, I do not dislike Unions, I believe them to be an important part of keeping things fair for the workers. I do however disagree when a Union continues to push and bully the wages/benefits to the point where a company can't compete in a thier market and even worse survive in that market. My (logical?) Rant is over, God Bless America for giving me the freedom to participate in an open discussion here on a site that has bikini wearing babes too ;)

[THOR]

Now that we got that staighten out, what's up with my maid went to USC :D Just joking, i'm a big SC fan and I have some money riding on the SC- texas game.
How many points you giving up? If it is still 6 or 7, I think you'll be just fine. Actually, if you could tease it down to even, you'll be even better.

[framer1]

How many points you giving up? If it is still 6 or 7, I think you'll be just fine. Actually, if you could tease it down to even, you'll be even better.
I was in Vegas in Aug. and I bet a hundred that SC would win the national title again. It pays 220 for the hundred and that would be staight up. I'm sure I will be making other bets before it is all said and done.

[Biglue]

If they really were mob related that dude as you call him would have disappeared. Maybe he drives a better car than you because he has a better job than you, or maybe he gets paid what he's worth :rolleyes: :boxed:
Dude you have no clue.
This dude was a focking wreck. Could not live life the way you and I do. YOu have to cantact him through a string of phone message centers. He really did live like a TV movie spy seriously. I have no reason to make this up.

[rivercrazy]

Unions in general have put such a chokehold on our economy that it makes it almost impossible for manufacturers and capital intensive servicers to stay in business. Any then everyone wonders why jobs are going overseas. If your not competitive with your competition you dead. Unions are job killers in the long run. Were seeing bonefide proof of this right now.

[chub]

Every week I reply to bids that require me to pay $28/hour to techs that can do the job for $15/hour....
Why would a "tech" want to do a job for 15/hour instead of 28?

[little rowe boat]

There are some unions that work in conjunction with their management,
Oh.................and there are some bargaining units that are forbidden by LAW to strike. Some unions are crooks but some are not. PHUCK the scab folk.
ILL TRAINED=ILL PREPARED!!!!!!!
Amen to that brother.

[GHT]

and a thousand yards of concrete in footings on a large commercial job is very doable
I have don it
Footings.... would be very easy..

[LUVNLIFE]

Don't get me wrong.. I am very familiar with unions (I drove for UPS) at one time. I very much resspect Thor and ALL other hard works and fellow HBers. I'm not here to bash anyone (nor be bashed). As we all know, just because someone doesn't believe as you do or do as you do, doesn't make them wright or wrong.
His (and everyone elses) job gets him to the lake so he can ejoy the fruits of his labor and hang with all the cool peeps on the boards. Nuff union / non union... Uts Friday... Let's drink beer.. :)
Well said. Is it beer time now. :cool:

[LUVNLIFE]

So your telling me if you wear shorts and a t-shirt to work you have a good chance of getting hurt. Spare me :argue: I'll put up a one tract framer aganst any two union carpenter, notice the different framer and carpenter.Please don't tell me how clean you frame doing something fast doesn't mean it isn't done right. I was in the carpenter union for five years and it was a total rip off. I don't care if your union or not but don't be ripping on us real framers :yuk:
The carpenters union ruined tract framing. Besides the work Thor is talking about is not tract framing. A tract framer wouldn't know what to do to build a five story parking structure or a 120" pipe to box transition structure.

[XTRM22]

and a thousand yards of concrete in footings on a large commercial job is very doable
I have don it
Yup, me too Non-Union job in Tucson a few years back. Hard hats,steel toed boots, and all the safety info and equip. of any Union job. I was a field engineer for Hensel Phelps for two years on that job. I'm not sure the Union has completely outlived their purpose, but anyone who says it takes Union people to do a quality job have been reading the Union pamphlets for to long!
Chuck

[mickeyfinn]

We are just finishing 700 million dollars worth of construction.Three major contractors on site. We have union and non-union subs depending on which GC we are talking about. Almost without fail the union job suffers quality,schedule and budget problems. Problems harder to resolve and people harder to work with. As for large concrete pours, we have poured 1000 yard monolithic slabs routinely, larger slabs are done but not as often. Our contractors using non-union labor are finishing 150 to 200 days further ahead of schedule. Non of the GC'S are union. When is the last time you saw a $700,000,000.00 union construction job come in on or under budget and/or ahead of schedule?

[canuck1]

Hmmm, that is funny. Most economists would say it is supply and demand. I will have to tell Greenspan that unions are the fault for inflation. Pouring concrete? I am not talking about patio brother. Big jobs. When is the last time you poured 1000 yards in a day? I will go out on a limb and say NEVER.
Since when is a 1000 yard pour big? Union jobs safer than non?????? BS. Slower maybe

[mike37]

The carpenters union ruined tract framing. Besides the work Thor is talking about is not tract framing. A tract framer wouldn't know what to do to build a five story parking structure or a 120" pipe to box transition structure.
If its on the plans I can build it
keep it up your makin me laugh :D

[THOR]

Besides the work Thor is talking about is not tract framing. A tract framer wouldn't know what to do to build a five story parking structure or a 120" pipe to box transition structure.
Word to that. Tract framing isnt the same as union carpentry.

[THOR]

We are just finishing 700 million dollars worth of construction.Three major contractors on site. We have union and non-union subs depending on which GC we are talking about. Almost without fail the union job suffers quality,schedule and budget problems. Problems harder to resolve and people harder to work with. As for large concrete pours, we have poured 1000 yard monolithic slabs routinely, larger slabs are done but not as often. Our contractors using non-union labor are finishing 150 to 200 days further ahead of schedule. Non of the GC'S are union. When is the last time you saw a $700,000,000.00 union construction job come in on or under budget and/or ahead of schedule?
Many of times. They finish on time or before plenty of times.

[THOR]

Since when is a 1000 yard pour big? Union jobs safer than non?????? BS. Slower maybe
Much safer. Check the stats. Oh wait, scab jobs just run to the hospital cuz there isnt anyone or anything to report. No regs at all.

[TCHB]

It is funny our highest paid people are in unions and they do not complain. My daughters boyfriend got paid $500K for one job. Oh yeah the job lasted three months. Maybe I need a union like baseball players, football, basketball, hockey so I can boost my pay.
Actors Guild Union

[mike37]

Word to that. Tract framing isnt the same as union carpentry.
Exactly we are better faster and cleaner

[olbiezer]

dudes.i am not trying to get anyone in or out of a union........some buisnesses need unions..........some buisnesses need the protection from bad management more then others its that simple.....i know that i am better off because of a union then with out one...........

[THOR]

Exactly we are better faster and cleaner
Now that is funny. I needed a good laugh. I thought the tract framing consisted of 12 illegals on the roof.

[Havasu1986]

My .02 My dad on Tues. was honered for his 60 years of being a UAW member. There were over 300 people there to honor him. I have been in the fire sprinkler union for over 23 years. The company I work for has not been forced to sign the union agreement since 1969, they have wanted the union work to get the best quality of jobs and workers available. I am a general foreman on a 200 million job called O.C. Performing Art Center with the Flour Co. It is mandatory to use union help to keep up with the schedule. The thing about unions that the non union people don't understand is the fraternity type feelings that we have for a life time. Would 300 people show up to honor someone 60 years of non union help. Just my opion. I would not have a house in Havasu and Yorba Linda with all my toys working non union.

[havasu5150]

Some thoughts..
i work in a union environment. I have a number of thoughts.
1st I believe that with today's laws most unions are unneccessary to protect someones job. It is virtually impossible to fire someone without just cause.
Regardless of whether or not it is a union shop. 10% of the employees are going to be top performers (regardless of management). 10% are shitbags and 80% fall in the middle....and are more influenced by how managment deals with the shitbag than the top performers.
Dan made a comment that management must be able to run the company effectively Union or no, good times or bad....this is true. However it is more influenced on whether the company can compete in the market place. In my industry, Union companies once dominated and handled well over 75% of the business. Now there are essentially only three union companies left and we are continuously losing market share....because we can't compete. We pay higher wages, more health, pension and welfare, and have greater restrictions than our non union competitors. Our customers often perceive a better product form the non union companies. The labor contract is over in another year. if a strike were to take place....the union companies will be done (all share the same labor agreement) . They may not close up immediately, but we will lose so much market share that it would simply be a matter of time. Short time.
When people say that a company died due to poor management.....it's probably true in that managment negotiated a shitty contract......look at GM and nod.

[thesunking]

My .02 My dad on Tues. was honered for his 60 years of being a UAW member. There were over 300 people there to honor him. I have been in the fire sprinkler union for over 23 years. The company I work for has not been forced to sign the union agreement since 1969, they have wanted the union work to get the best quality of jobs and workers available. I am a general foreman on a 200 million job called O.C. Performing Art Center with the Flour Co. It is mandatory to use union help to keep up with the schedule. The thing about unions that the non union people don't understand is the fraternity type feelings that we have for a life time. Would 300 people show up to honor someone 60 years of non union help. Just my opion. I would not have a house in Havasu and Yorba Linda with all my toys working non union.
Just curious but who was awarded the glass and glazing contract? Looks like you guys are slated for completion in the summer of '06 and ahead of schedule.

[Havasu1986]

Just curious but who was awarded the glass and glazing contract? Looks like you guys are slated for completion in the summer of '06 and ahead of schedule.
It's on the tip of my tounge but right now I know the foremans name is Toby. Coors Lite is all I know right now. 9/15/06 is opening nite. The glazer as been great with us using his crane and boom lift. 2 t shirts and some beer goes along way. I will think of the company when the beer stops Monday morning.

[mike37]

all you union boy keep talking about how much $$$$$
are you making union pay or prevailing wage
what is a union carpenter making per Hr

[THOR]

all you union boy keep talking about how much $$$$$
are you making union pay or prevailing wage
what is a union carpenter making per Hr
35 per hour or so. How much do the illegals make for tract homes? $5/hour?

[LUVNLIFE]

You are right Mike. I'm laughing right now :D :D :D

[sorry dog]

Sorry to burst your bubble but inflation isnt caused by unions. Also, name one contractor that can pour 1000+ yards in a day... Just large commerical work getting done that independent guys not only can bid, but can man and arent qualified to work on. They just arent trainer properly to do large commercial stuff. That isnt a slam, just reality.
Brassfield & Gorrie, Harbert Intl, and plenty of local guys around here. I don't recall anybody being part of a union around here.
Aren't you an Auburn man?
I've worked with a few civil engineers from there - most were 100% sure they were always 100% right :rolleyes: ...not sure what they are teaching those guys down there.

[Cas]

I'd like to see a formal poll of the owners of the companies to see what their thoughts are on unions.
Just curious Thor, how many companies have you worked for? How many different areas, states?

[TCHB]

1. Companies fail due to wrong assumptions about what price and volume not labor costs. Labor costs come into the picture when margins are cut by price and volume losses. Look at Calpine a major player in the energy business now ready for BK. They thought they could handle the dept load, short term fuel costs, and forward markets. They were wrong on all counts. Labor did not even come into the equation.

[XTRM22]

35 per hour or so. How much do the illegals make for tract homes? $5/hour?
Ya know I'm really tired of that reasoning, maybe where you are it's still like that, but I ran jobs in Tucson for the last ten years and the only illegals we saw were the occasional laborer for the landscaper, and they quit doing that because the fines were so high when they got caught. I've been on more non-union jobs then union, and I've always been with the GC salaried, so maybe I haven't seen the differences you speak about but a good tradesman is a good tradesman whatever trade he's in with or without a union and he's going to make scale for his ability based on local economy.
Chuck

[THOR]

Brassfield & Gorrie, Harbert Intl, and plenty of local guys around here. I don't recall anybody being part of a union around here.
Aren't you an Auburn man?
I've worked with a few civil engineers from there - most were 100% sure they were always 100% right :rolleyes: ...not sure what they are teaching those guys down there.
I graduated from Auburn. Lived in LV and now back home in HB.

[THOR]

I'd like to see a formal poll of the owners of the companies to see what their thoughts are on unions.
Just curious Thor, how many companies have you worked for? How many different areas, states?
I have worked for plenty of companies. Some construction related and some not. I saw horribly bad work practices mainly in Las Vegas where illegals were working for minimal wages and putting up poor work. I am sure the work here in socal is much, much better. I am sorry if I offended you but I am only stating what I have seen and read.
BTW, I sell heavy equipment now.

[THOR]

Ya know I'm really tired of that reasoning, maybe where you are it's still like that, but I ran jobs in Tucson for the last ten years and the only illegals we saw were the occasional laborer for the landscaper, and they quit doing that because the fines were so high when they got caught. I've been on more non-union jobs then union, and I've always been with the GC salaried, so maybe I haven't seen the differences you speak about but a good tradesman is a good tradesman whatever trade he's in with or without a union and he's going to make scale for his ability based on local economy.
Chuck
Chuck, I havent ever seen what goes on in AZ. I was referring back to my LV days were illegals were the primary framers and did a piss poor job. I am no better, but then again, I am not a framer nor am I a carpenter. I didnt mean to offend and should have specified where I was talking about. I have seen a handful of jobs here in socal with illegals framing away as well.

[LUVNLIFE]

I have worked for plenty of companies. Some construction related and some not. I saw horribly bad work practices mainly in Las Vegas where illegals were working for minimal wages and putting up poor work. I am sure the work here in socal is much, much better. I am sorry if I offended you but I am only stating what I have seen and read.
BTW, I sell heavy equipment now.
Hey Thor who do you sell heavy equipment for?

[THOR]

Hey Thor who do you sell heavy equipment for?
South Coast Bobcat

[mike37]

35 per hour or so. How much do the illegals make for tract homes? $5/hour?
shit no one works for $5 an hr

[THOR]

shit no one works for $5 an hr
illegal framers do. Maybe not that low, but much lower than you make.

[sleekcraft80]

Word to that. Tract framing isnt the same as union carpentry.
I can remember in the mid 70s working tract jobs in Buena Park where ALL the trades were union.