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View Full Version : Noise cops on the river???



kingLHC
05-21-2006, 07:38 AM
We got pulled over yesterday while returning to Havasu from the Sandbar. Turns out, they have a boat up river measuring sound and radioing to the officers down stream a discription of your boat. No ticket because we have mufflers and were right on 86db, the limit.
Now, I'm a little pissed. According to our local paper, this is because someone said the noise disturbs the wildlife in the refuge. Come on. People were running dry stack headers 40 years ago. I think the refuge has evolved with the noise. I would love to see a study. I'm thinking there's more to it.

wanna B V
05-21-2006, 08:12 AM
So is the noise level for engine noise only or does that mean any noise like really loud stereos??

kingLHC
05-21-2006, 08:33 AM
So is the noise level for engine noise only or does that mean any noise like really loud stereos??
Engine noise.

Outnumbered
05-21-2006, 09:24 AM
So is the noise level for engine noise only or does that mean any noise like really loud stereos??
No, the animals actually like the music:
http://www.zewebanim.com/images/madagascar-dreamworks-lemur1g.jpg

Backseat Driver
05-21-2006, 09:54 AM
I would like to see the study Fish & Game is refering to. Does anyone know about it? What about a study on Human Habitat? We need to have beer, boats and fun!

Not So Fast
05-21-2006, 10:37 AM
What agency ?????????:idea: NSF

Moneypitt
05-21-2006, 10:47 AM
I think the refuge has evolved with the noise. I would love to see a study. I'm thinking there's more to it.
You bet there is more to it....It's called the Almighty BUCK, its all about money. Either boosting revenue, and/or allowing the water cops to justify their budget. Sure, there are issues that need addressing by LE, but this noise crap isn't one of them. We, (***boaters) sat back and allowed this to happen, always figuring "someone else" would surely fight back, but alas, no one did........Study? You want a study. I think the study has been done. The results were that the people now living on the river don't like the noise, and they are also the local VOTERS, so guess whos wheels will get the grease........Its all about $$$$$$$$$$$..................MP

mjc
05-21-2006, 10:57 AM
don't forget all the big money at the refugee and the new golf course there. They are the closest to that water now and nobody lived there before.

MudPumper
05-21-2006, 11:18 AM
We got pulled over yesterday while returning to Havasu from the Sandbar. Turns out, they have a boat up river measuring sound and radioing to the officers down stream a discription of your boat. No ticket because we have mufflers and were right on 86db, the limit.
Now, I'm a little pissed. According to our local paper, this is because someone said the noise disturbs the wildlife in the refuge. Come on. People were running dry stack headers 40 years ago. I think the refuge has evolved with the noise. I would love to see a study. I'm thinking there's more to it.
I'm kinda wondering why they even stopped you if you were not over the limit. Seems kinda bull shit to me.

OCMerrill
05-21-2006, 11:19 AM
Us Glamis and Pismo Beach users went through a ton of this crap in the past years.
It seam’s made up using the wild life "card" to lay down any new or not previously enforced law. Biggest possibly being revenue but what could also be in play is threatened lawsuits by rogue organizations like the Sierra Club and others. They are NOT YOUR FRIEND.
The Fish and Wildlife service got legally bent over by "Them" in the recent past. I hope this is not a sign of things to come on this stretch of the river already legislated to just pass through use.
In Glamis it was a plant, then a lizard, now...it will always be something. In Oceano you can't even fly a kite in fear of scaring the Snowy Plover let alone about only 1/3rd of the beach remains open.
It's going to get worse I fear...

OCMerrill
05-21-2006, 11:24 AM
Another thought...
Maybe it's time to support (if one exists) or create an organization simular to the ASA (American Sand Assoc.) to battle this kind of stuff if it comes to that.
Without the ASA forming, Glamis as we currently know it would no longer be.
I could just not imagine not being able to use this part of the river in the future.

Boatcop
05-21-2006, 12:44 PM
Yep!
God Damn them for enforcing the LAW. :cry:
Just like the useless CHP that has the gall to stop cars that are speeding.
What's this world coming to. :notam:

Thorsinc
05-21-2006, 12:47 PM
The next step for the activist will be to convince someone that the noise is disrupting a species of animals during its mating season and then things will get worse for all. Try to develop land when the Nat Catcher is trying to get little something something!

Sleek-Jet
05-21-2006, 12:52 PM
I'm kinda wondering why they even stopped you if you were not over the limit. Seems kinda bull shit to me.
I would think that the only way to administer the noise test is at an idle from a few feet away and above the water line... kinda hard to do when a boat is at speed.

Beer Factor
05-21-2006, 01:00 PM
Yep!
God Damn them for enforcing the LAW. :cry:
Just like the useless CHP that has the gall to stop cars that are speeding.
What's this world coming to. :notam:
In my opinion i dont think they should be pulled over unless the officer is sure that the boat is illegal. Otherwise don't waste their time.

buzzaro
05-21-2006, 01:21 PM
Yep!
God Damn them for enforcing the LAW. :cry:
Just like the useless CHP that has the gall to stop cars that are speeding.
What's this world coming to. :notam:
Just because an idea was made into law doesnt make it any less stupid. The CHP arent pulling over cars doing 55, although at one time they did when it was the law. Why was it changed you ask? It was stupid. Could another stupid bill make it to law? Apparently it can.

Boatcop
05-21-2006, 01:26 PM
The AZ law is 86db at 50'. No provision for idle testing.
Oh, and the "new" law you speak of was enacted in 1972.
And who really cares about the wildlife in a National Wildlife Refuge, anyway.
Who was there first?

77charger
05-21-2006, 01:59 PM
Yep!
God Damn them for enforcing the LAW. :cry:
Just like the useless CHP that has the gall to stop cars that are speeding.
What's this world coming to. :notam:No $hit most boats can be quieted down and the owners know that before hand.I AINT ONE FOR NOISE RESTRICTIONS EITHER.But you know the laws you take the chance kinda like tinted windows or driving 70 in a 65 might be fine one day not the next accept it.I dont worry aout noise laws cause i have thru hub exhaust thats the way my boat came.sure it only goes 60 and no it aint a bayliner either but a 21 ft eliminator with a 350 mag.

schiada96
05-21-2006, 02:56 PM
The AZ law is 86db at 50'. No provision for idle testing.
Oh, and the "new" law you speak of was enacted in 1972.
And who really cares about the wildlife in a National Wildlife Refuge, anyway.
Who was there first?
For a law that was rarely enforced in your jurisdiction for 30 years. Kind of like the sodomy law

Moneypitt
05-21-2006, 03:13 PM
The AZ law is 86db at 50'. No provision for idle testing.
Oh, and the "new" law you speak of was enacted in 1972.
And who really cares about the wildlife in a National Wildlife Refuge, anyway.
Who was there first?
Alan, the only wildlife on the strip are the people getting stopped, and who was THERE first, the boats or the people in the houses. Its like buying a house under an airport glidepath and then complaining about the noise....Granted there are areas of the river where a loud boat should take it easy to preserve the wildlife, but most of the river should be open to any and every boat, regardless of noise. What about the obnoxious music blasting out of some of those "quiet" boats, is there a Db reading for them to comply with? I think if you buy a house on the Parker Strip, you KNEW what you were getting into before hand, so live with it, or move out.......Ray

Boatcop
05-21-2006, 03:33 PM
Alan, the only wildlife on the strip are the people getting stopped, and who was THERE first, the boats or the people in the houses. Its like buying a house under an airport glidepath and then complaining about the noise....Granted there are areas of the river where a loud boat should take it easy to preserve the wildlife, but most of the river should be open to any and every boat, regardless of noise. What about the obnoxious music blasting out of some of those "quiet" boats, is there a Db reading for them to comply with? I think if you buy a house on the Parker Strip, you KNEW what you were getting into before hand, so live with it, or move out.......Ray
This thread refers to getting stopped between the Sandbar and Havasu. That area is within the Wildlife Refuge. Not the Strip. As far as we're concerned, we give latitude on exhaust noise up into the mid 90s
We DO know the history and culture of the Parker Strip, and noise enforcement isn't a high priority. Except for those that choose to run open headers, non-muffled zoomies, etc.
Comparing boat noise to airports (or race tracks) is apples and oranges. Those are legal activities. Running unmuffled or excessively loud boats are not.
Excessive noise (86+) and no muffling device are 2 different animals. If someone is at least making an effort to quiet the exhaust, we'll let it slide. But running open is just flaunting it in our face.
Oh. And I've been patrolling with the SO here for 18 years. We've been citing for no mufflers as long as I've been around, and prior to that also. We've only had certified sound meters for about 2 years. In that time we've written very few tickets for excessive noise. But the ones we have written were for levels from 98 all the way up to 105.
Remember that noise is a logarithmic scale. For every 3 db increase the noise doubles. 89 is twice as loud as 86. 92 is twice as loud as 89, and so on.
So us giving a walk to those between 86 and 95 is a hell of a break.

Boatcop
05-21-2006, 03:38 PM
What about the obnoxious music blasting out of some of those "quiet" boats, is there a Db reading for them to comply with?
No db reading, but there is a statute for "Disorderly Conduct". The exact wording of the DC statute is "Makes unreasonable noise". And yes, we enforce that too.
Just ask RD.

Phat Matt
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
i wonder what would happen if "NO ONE SHOWED UP TO THE PARTY"say all summer? no $$$ for the zoo no jobs ,motels empty,BIG LAYOFF, cops,park workers ,and no crime(ya right)and their stoping everyone for bullshit(yes their are some very loud boats).maybe its the dick head's son from the marina starting all this?i don't know,come on up to powell and play,i used to go to the zoo 3-4 times a year(500-800$ for 3 days)now maybe 1 time i will make it this year,but i'm/we are only 1 ,how many more ?
He doesn't have anything to do with it. :notam:

Phat Matt
05-21-2006, 03:59 PM
it was just a thought
I know. :)

shueman
05-21-2006, 04:29 PM
You bet there is more to it....It's called the Almighty BUCK, its all about money. Either boosting revenue, and/or allowing the water cops to justify their budget. Sure, there are issues that need addressing by LE, but this noise crap isn't one of them. We, (***boaters) sat back and allowed this to happen, always figuring "someone else" would surely fight back, but alas, no one did........Study? You want a study. I think the study has been done. The results were that the people now living on the river don't like the noise, and they are also the local VOTERS, so guess whos wheels will get the grease........Its all about $$$$$$$$$$$..................MP
Your not even close.... :rolleyes: it's about the Wildlife Refuge and Species Habitat.... :cool: One way to get the message out is to do routine stop checks....

ColeTR2
05-21-2006, 06:36 PM
We DO know the history and culture of the Parker Strip, and noise enforcement isn't a high priority. Except for those that choose to run open headers, non-muffled zoomies, etc.
Comparing boat noise to airports (or race tracks) is apples and oranges. Those are legal activities. Running unmuffled or excessively loud boats are not.
Excessive noise (86+) and no muffling device are 2 different animals. If someone is at least making an effort to quiet the exhaust, we'll let it slide. But running open is just flaunting it in our face.
Oh. And I've been patrolling with the SO here for 18 years. We've been citing for no mufflers as long as I've been around, and prior to that also. We've only had certified sound meters for about 2 years. In that time we've written very few tickets for excessive noise. But the ones we have written were for levels from 98 all the way up to 105.
Very True! My boat is Loud but I have baffles and water. I have been pulled over just to be checked out. I understand that. Every-time I have been checked I have been treated fair No Ticket. Just make and effort to reduce your noise, this can be done easy with mufflers. The best way to reduce noise is with your left foot!! When your running through heavy populated areas like around the Key's just back way off and run more down the center of the river, if it's safe to do so. There are plenty of places to get on it where there are no homes or wildlife reserves, like the stretch between Badnoch's and the casino. Or in the middle of the lake between LHC and Havasu Springs. Common sense. I never thought that I'd get pissed about noise on the strip. I love the sound of a V8. But the Saturday morning before the Desert Storm Poker Run from 3:00 am tell 5:00 am a big horse power twin was test and tuning on the same mile stretch of the river. It sat me straight up in bed and I live 1 mile from the river on top of a hill. It was OK at first but after one hour WTF!! it's four in the morning! This is the kind of stupid stuff people do that F's it up for all of us. Not all of you see this but Law enforcement does, and I'm sure the calls came in, a bunch from this A hole. And at the end of the month when they do the reports it says we have got a lot of call about noise.

77charger
05-21-2006, 07:39 PM
V The best way to reduce noise is with your left foot!!
How does the down pedal quiet you down i thought it was for controlling the boats ride.LOL
i am sure you meant right foot :p

ColeTR2
05-21-2006, 08:00 PM
How does the down pedal quiet you down i thought it was for controlling the boats ride.LOL
i am sure you meant right foot :p
Only you would catch that! :D Don't most boat have right hand drive? Oh I forgot real boats don't have a gas pedal. I meant right hand. :D I think :confused:

Magic34
05-21-2006, 08:31 PM
No, the animals actually like the music:
http://www.zewebanim.com/images/madagascar-dreamworks-lemur1g.jpg
I like to move it, move it. She like to move it, move it! :rollside:

Outnumbered
05-21-2006, 09:18 PM
I like to move it, move it. She like to move it, move it! :rollside:
Good...I'm glad someone caught that :D I was starting to think I was the only one with kids around here.

Duck
05-21-2006, 09:27 PM
What depatment were the noise cops from, San Berdoo, LHC, Wildlfe? Did the driver get a field sobrity test too.

Magic34
05-21-2006, 09:38 PM
Good...I'm glad someone caught that :D I was starting to think I was the only one with kids around here.
As a matter of fact, that is on right this very second in the toy room. :)

Kindsvater Flat
05-21-2006, 09:51 PM
They did a 2 week test up here with the 2 stroke bikes vs spotted owl. Bikes won and the spotted owl didn't move at all.

Hardly Satisfied
05-22-2006, 02:19 AM
that's crazy

schiada96
05-22-2006, 03:29 AM
Good...I'm glad someone caught that :D I was starting to think I was the only one with kids around here.
what is a nibble amongst friends?

Perfect Mixer
05-22-2006, 07:11 PM
Yep!
God Damn them for enforcing the LAW. :cry:
Just like the useless CHP that has the gall to stop cars that are speeding.
What's this world coming to. :notam:
Here on land I sure wish they'd enforce noise laws on Harleys and the like. Damn drag pipes shake my windows all day Saturday and Sunday.

HTRDLNCN
05-22-2006, 08:01 PM
Remember that noise is a logarithmic scale.
For every 3 db increase the noise doubles.
89 is twice as loud as 86. 92 is twice as loud as 89, and so on.
So us giving a walk to those between 86 and 95 is a hell of a break.
__________________________________________________ ___________
Sorry but your wrong on that point.
You are confusing db with dbspl.
power and apparent sound level do not work like that when dealing with spl.
While 3db requires twice the power it does NOT produce twice the sound level.
10db would give you twice the sound level but would require ten times the power.
3dbspl is very small change in sound level, 10dbspl would be twice as loud.
Most adult ears wouldnt be able tell the difference between an 86dbspl exhaust and an 89dbspl exhaust..
Nowhere near twice as loud .
__________________________________________________ ______________
http://www.e2s.com/kb-3.htm
Although an increase of 3 dB represents a doubling of the sound pressure,
an increase of about 10 dB is required before the sound subjectively
appears to be twice as loud. The smallest change we can hear is about 3 dB.
The subjective or perceived loudness of a sound is determined by several
complex factors. One such factor is that the human ear is not equally
sensitive at all frequencies. It is most sensitive to sounds between
2kHz and 5kHz, and less sensitive at higher and lower frequencies
__________________________________________________ ______________
more reference on DB SPL :
http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/
http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/03_db.html
http://www.mne.psu.edu/lamancusa/me458/3_human.pdf

kingLHC
05-25-2006, 12:46 AM
I'm kinda wondering why they even stopped you if you were not over the limit. Seems kinda bull shit to me.
They stated they weren't sure who was over the limit. Their meter isn't directional, so if you are in a pack, they have to guess.

kingLHC
05-25-2006, 12:58 AM
The AZ law is 86db at 50'. No provision for idle testing.
Oh, and the "new" law you speak of was enacted in 1972.
And who really cares about the wildlife in a National Wildlife Refuge, anyway.
Who was there first?
Honestly, I appreciate your enthusiasm for upholding the law, and they were made for a reason. Since you have time to research this stuff, find out who studied the Havasu National Wildlife Refuge and determined the wildlife is bothered by the noise.
Personally, I think it's those crazy fools in canoes!!! Paddle faster!!!

kingLHC
05-25-2006, 01:08 AM
What depatment were the noise cops from, San Berdoo, LHC, Wildlfe? Did the driver get a field sobrity test too.
Wildlife. Suprisingly, no sobriety test, though he wasn't drinking either. They did ask to see all safety equipment.

Kiddunot
05-25-2006, 05:38 AM
here is my two sense on the ordeal, i think the squirrels, snakes and spiders should stop complaining about the noise. Pulling someone over for being stupid, drinking or endangering others i think is ok. I dont have some big loud speed boat, i just drive a chapparel boat. I dont have anything to worry about regarding this post. But i do think the people that do have loud motors are not hurting anyone. There out there to have a good time and they want to listen to there motor. I am sure if you had a 100,000 + boat you would want to hear motor as well. I know i would. I am sure it is the locals that live near the river that are complaining. Maybe they should come up with a law where you cannot operate loudly between certain times to respect the local residents. I dont know, but to get pulled over and harrassed over noise sounds pretty ridiculous to me. Go get the people that are major offenders of the law (drunk drivers, fighters, rapist, theives etc.) not noise makers.

OrangePicker
05-25-2006, 07:32 AM
This thread refers to getting stopped between the Sandbar and Havasu. That area is within the Wildlife Refuge. Not the Strip. As far as we're concerned, we give latitude on exhaust noise up into the mid 90s
We DO know the history and culture of the Parker Strip, and noise enforcement isn't a high priority. Except for those that choose to run open headers, non-muffled zoomies, etc.
Comparing boat noise to airports (or race tracks) is apples and oranges. Those are legal activities. Running unmuffled or excessively loud boats are not.
Excessive noise (86+) and no muffling device are 2 different animals. If someone is at least making an effort to quiet the exhaust, we'll let it slide. But running open is just flaunting it in our face.
Oh. And I've been patrolling with the SO here for 18 years. We've been citing for no mufflers as long as I've been around, and prior to that also. We've only had certified sound meters for about 2 years. In that time we've written very few tickets for excessive noise. But the ones we have written were for levels from 98 all the way up to 105.
Remember that noise is a logarithmic scale. For every 3 db increase the noise doubles. 89 is twice as loud as 86. 92 is twice as loud as 89, and so on.
So us giving a walk to those between 86 and 95 is a hell of a break.
Do you look at turbos as a effort to quiet the exhaust?

the_gray_goose
05-25-2006, 08:28 AM
Ok I just can't stay quiet on this any more!
And I have an outboard boat that doesn't even come close to being above the noise limit.
This is fish and game that we are talking about, and I have just a few questions I would like to ask here.
What does more damage to the animals in the refuge?
A load boat going by that they may hide from for a minute or so.
A guy with a fishing license and a baited hook all day looking to catch and kill his limit for the day.
A guy with a shotgun and a bird hunting licence looking to blow anything that moves in the air.

atomickitn
05-25-2006, 09:38 AM
refuge is ment to be justr that !!!no hunting or killing of any sort ....unless you find some a hole messing with your wife or your stuff...carry on :rollside: