Anyone Ever Refuse a DUI test?

[Trailer Park Casanova]

In the field or at the Station/Med center?
What were your penalties, did you fight it?
Suspention on your Drivers License?
How did your insurance react to it?
What were your final outcomes?

[Daytona100]

Instant guilty also max penalty and fines. Better off leaving the country!!!! :cry:

[No Name]

I think they take your license for one year automatically if you refuse a test. I’m sure the LE that post on here will be with you shortly.

[H20 Party Starter]

Directly to jail, no pass GO, no $200 :frown:

[topless]

Just say no speaka english and they'll think you're illegal so you'll be off scott free.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Just say no speaka english and they'll think you're illegal so you'll be off scott free.
lol
Really that is the dumbest thing you can do. They will get thier sample( you already signed a doc saying that its ok for them to take a sample... when you got your DL) basicly what happends is its instant cuffs and they draw your blood( by force if they need to). Even if your below the legal limit your still fooked. You will lose your DL, I beleave its a year.

[topless]

lol
Really that is the dumbest thing you can do. They will get thier sample( you already signed a doc saying that its ok for them to take a sample... when you got your DL) basicly what happends is its instant cuffs and they draw your blood( by force if they need to). Even if your below the legal limit your still fooked. You will lose your DL, I beleave its a year.
Isn't that why most of them don't have a license anyway?

[JetBoatRich]

You might be better off just running :rolleyes: maybe they will not catch you :rolleyes:
j/k

[DAVEO]

My brother did that years ago. Only lost his licence 1 year. No dui charged. Im not sure about fines. They did not force him to do any test.

[NOTALENT]

You can refuse to take it when you get pulled over. They may get mad at you or try and make you take it, but you do not have to. If they think you are drunk they will take you in and then you will have to take it. You may sober up a small amount by the time you get there and through processing...

[Legal Chemistry]

lol
Really that is the dumbest thing you can do. They will get thier sample( you already signed a doc saying that its ok for them to take a sample... when you got your DL) basicly what happends is its instant cuffs and they draw your blood( by force if they need to). Even if your below the legal limit your still fooked. You will lose your DL, I beleave its a year.
They cannot force you to submit a sample. Refusal to consent to a BAC test results in a mandatory 1 year suspension -it is recorded and fined as a refusal to submit (probably add in a suspicion of under the influence of "X" substance.) The outcome is less drastic than a DUI, but you're still taking it in the arse in the end.

[YeLLowBoaT]

13384. (a) The department shall not issue or renew a driver's license to any person unless the person consents in writing to submit to a chemical test or tests of that person's blood, breath, or urine pursuant to Section 23612, or a preliminary alcohol screening test pursuant to Section 23136, when requested to do so by a peace officer.
(b) All application forms for driver's licenses or driver's license renewal notices shall include a requirement that the applicant sign the following declaration as a condition of licensure:
"I agree to submit to a chemical test of my blood, breath, or urine for the purpose of determining the alcohol or drug content of my blood when testing is requested by a peace officer acting in accordance with Section 13388 or 23612 of the Vehicle Code."
(c) The department is not, incident to this section, required to maintain, copy, or store any information other than that to be incorporated into the standard application form.
By have a DL you have already waved your rights to not giving a test.

[BADBLOWN572]

You have the right to refuse the field sobriety test. If I ever got busted, that is what I would do. Do submit to the breath/blood.
If you refuse the field sobriety test, they have no argument that you were legally "drunk" at the time they pulled you over. If you do submit to a FST, you may still get a DUI even if you are less than the limit. They can say that your BAC went down since the time you were pulled over. They can get you based on the field sobriety test evidence. If there is no field sobriety test done, they cant say that you were drunk (unless you were falling over drunk). Just because you "smelled" of alcohol doesn't mean that you were drunk.
Chances are if you do refuse a field sobriety test, you are going to get a pair of bracelets and go to jail, but they will test you at the facility. If you are below .08 at that time, they would have a hard time to proove that you were DUI material at the time you were pulled over.

[ratso]

13384. (a) The department shall not issue or renew a driver's license to any person unless the person consents in writing to submit to a chemical test or tests of that person's blood, breath, or urine pursuant to Section 23612, or a preliminary alcohol screening test pursuant to Section 23136, when requested to do so by a peace officer.
(b) All application forms for driver's licenses or driver's license renewal notices shall include a requirement that the applicant sign the following declaration as a condition of licensure:
"I agree to submit to a chemical test of my blood, breath, or urine for the purpose of determining the alcohol or drug content of my blood when testing is requested by a peace officer acting in accordance with Section 13388 or 23612 of the Vehicle Code."
(c) The department is not, incident to this section, required to maintain, copy, or store any information other than that to be incorporated into the standard application form.
By have a DL you have already waved your rights to not giving a test.
I guess if someone is gonna drive while intoxicated, it might be cheaper in the long run to NOT renew their license. :idea:

[topless]

I was given a FST once and passed and the guy stil made me blow.....Oh never mind.

[ratso]

I was given a FST once and passed and the guy stil made me blow.....Oh never mind.
:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

[wsuwrhr]

I have heard this as well. If you are a dumbass, and get caught driving after partying, never, ever, ever do a field sobriety test. If you do submit to a
FST, it is up to the officers discretion, at least until you get to the station.
You know if you are ****ed up or not. If you are pulled over and they are asking questions, you are already in trouble.
Puke anywhere, anytime you can, to get anything not already in your bloodstream OUT. ASAP.
Brian
You have the right to refuse the field sobriety test. If I ever got busted, that is what I would do. Do submit to the breath/blood.
If you refuse the field sobriety test, they have no argument that you were legally "drunk" at the time they pulled you over. If you do submit to a FST, you may still get a DUI even if you are less than the limit. They can say that your BAC went down since the time you were pulled over. They can get you based on the field sobriety test evidence. If there is no field sobriety test done, they cant say that you were drunk (unless you were falling over drunk). Just because you "smelled" of alcohol doesn't mean that you were drunk.
Chances are if you do refuse a field sobriety test, you are going to get a pair of bracelets and go to jail, but they will test you at the facility. If you are below .08 at that time, they would have a hard time to proove that you were DUI material at the time you were pulled over.

[ratso]

I have heard this as well. If you are a dumbass, and get caught driving after partying, never, ever, ever do a field sobriety test. If you do submit to a
FST, it is up to the officers discretion, at least until you get to the station.
You know if you are ****ed up or not. If you are pulled over and they are asking questions, you are already in trouble.
Puke anywhere, anytime you can, to get anything not already in your bloodstream OUT. ASAP.
Brian
...yeah, puke, all over the officers uniform if you have to, and in the back seat of the patrol car, and at the police station... :rollside: :)

[PHOTOGLOU]

I was given a FST once and passed and the guy stil made me blow.....Oh never mind.
FST is to prove impairment...... Blowing is to prove drunk..... You can be under the LEGAL limit but still get a driving under the influence........ You could pass all the FST's but blow over .08 and get a drunk driving... There are 2 different charges....

[MONEYFURNOTHIN]

I have a "friend" who was stopped on the parker strip. He had alot of LE on his boat. So he had some good coaching on what to do and not to do during the contact. Make a long story shoter, took all fst, and according to his coach's passed every one. When the bull dike man hating sweet heart of an officer said ok i just want you to take a quick breathalizer, the coach's said dont take it, refuse. The "friend" refused, more officers came, more fst's were given. We believe your under the influence, on with the hand cuffs, lifevest and into the boat for a afternoon boat ride to la paz holding station. Once there "friend" again refused test. About an hour later they handed good ole friend a faxed copy of a search warrent and said, now you cant refuse, will be taking your blood. Once in court friend was charged with oui, and a charge relating to refusing the breathalizer. As a friend my advice would be, if your drunk and get busted, man up and face the music. Your guilty and your not going to get out of it. If you get busted in az, on the water, here is a friends advice. Cooperate, spend the night in jail (dont bail out) see the judge in the morning, plea guilty, pay your fines, time served DONE! If you bail out, you dont see the judge in the morning, so its trips back in forth to az, for court, and ultimaitly your going to pay the same money and maybe have to go back in the klink for a couple more days. JUST MAN UP AND FACE THE CRIME YOU GOT BUSTED.

[slink]

They cannot force you to submit a sample. Refusal to consent to a BAC test results in a mandatory 1 year suspension -it is recorded and fined as a refusal to submit (probably add in a suspicion of under the influence of "X" substance.) The outcome is less drastic than a DUI, but you're still taking it in the arse in the end.
Hope you didn't pay a lawyer for that advise :) :) Yes LEO's can force blood and yes they will. It's called evidence. I've seen many held down while nurse Susy Q pricks them with a needle. Nice way to pick up another misdemeanor for obstructing/delaying and usually add a third, cuz it's inevitable youre going to kick/hit one of the LEO's when you resist :)

[topless]

FST is to prove impairment...... Blowing is to prove drunk..... You can be under the LEGAL limit but still get a driving under the influence........ You could pass all the FST's but blow over .08 and get a drunk driving... There are 2 different charges....I was joking. I passed the breathalizer too so he only gave me a speeding ticket. It wasted about 30 minutes and I was pissed because when he told me I was free to go I asked him if I passed all his little tricks and he said yes so I asked him why he gave me the breathalizer. He said they make everyone do it so I told him we could have saved alot of time if he hadn't made me do all the monkey tricks. I think I pissed him off at that point.

[Rod-64]

No...........but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :crossx:

[SurfOnH20]

As a LEO I dont mind if people refuse to perform the FSTs (less writing for me). I do mind if they refuse any BAC tests at the station. My dept allows forced blood draws. You are handcuffed behind your back and sat in a chair with several officers standing over you in case you don't go with the program. When people see we are serious they dont resist. Some depts as a matter of policy don't perform forced BAC tests.

[laveydayz]

How does a DUI in say Arizona or Nevada effect your Calif. license?

[CBadDad]

If you refuse the field sobriety test, they have no argument that you were legally "drunk" at the time they pulled you over. If you do submit to a FST, you may still get a DUI even if you are less than the limit. They can say that your BAC went down since the time you were pulled over. They can get you based on the field sobriety test evidence. If there is no field sobriety test done, they cant say that you were drunk (unless you were falling over drunk). Just because you "smelled" of alcohol doesn't mean that you were drunk.
Chances are if you do refuse a field sobriety test, you are going to get a pair of bracelets and go to jail, but they will test you at the facility. If you are below .08 at that time, they would have a hard time to proove that you were DUI material at the time you were pulled over.
Overall good advice, but I doubt that refusing the FST is gonna change much in the long run. Friggen piglets will lie and steal to get a conviction. It's called creative writing 101... "the perps eyes were bloodshot and he was staggering around the scene (even if you never got out of your car) and his speech was slurred". That little bit of "evidence" is just as good as any ol' subjective FST.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[Legal Chemistry]

As a LEO I dont mind if people refuse to perform the FSTs (less writing for me). I do mind if they refuse any BAC tests at the station. My dept allows forced blood draws. You are handcuffed behind your back and sat in a chair with several officers standing over you in case you don't go with the program. When people see we are serious they dont resist. Some depts as a matter of policy don't perform forced BAC tests.
Interesting, because in there is an implied consent in California that if you are given a license to drive, you consent to blood, breath, etc. However, courts in CA tend to side with the person who refuses to allow the blood withdrawn. The law protects blood withdrawal much heavier than breath because inserting a needle into one's body (1) invades the person (who may also have health or religious reasons for not wanting needles inserted) and (2) may force a person to forcefully waive their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination. Love those civil rights.
Truth in all this: Don't drive drunk. I very much respect the officers removing those deemed too drunk to drive off the road for the safety of my family, friends, and myself....

[YeLLowBoaT]

Interesting, because in there is an implied consent in California that if you are given a license to drive, you consent to blood, breath, etc. However, courts in CA tend to side with the person who refuses to allow the blood withdrawn. The law protects blood withdrawal much heavier than breath because inserting a needle into one's body (1) invades the person (who may also have health or religious reasons for not wanting needles inserted) and (2) may force a person to forcefully waive their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination. Love those civil rights.
Truth in all this: Don't drive drunk. I very much respect the officers removing those deamed too drunk to drive off the road for the safety of my family, friends, and myself....
If you say you are a jahova wittness they can not draw your blood... its ether piss or breath.

[wsuwrhr]

...yeah, puke, all over the officers uniform if you have to, and in the back seat of the patrol car, and at the police station... :rollside: :)
When someone is in THAT situation, getting ready to get a DUI, do what you gotta do.

[Boatcop]

How does a DUI in say Arizona or Nevada effect your Calif. license?
The same as if it was in CA. Interstate compacts report the offense in your home state. Same with Boating OUIs (BUIs)
If you refuse the field sobriety test, they have no argument that you were legally "drunk" at the time they pulled you over. If you do submit to a FST, you may still get a DUI even if you are less than the limit. They can say that your BAC went down since the time you were pulled over. They can get you based on the field sobriety test evidence.
In Arizona the laws says above .08% within 2 hours of operating a motor vehicle/watercraft
This takes away the defense that they had just slammed 6 shots 2 minutes before getting pulled over, and weren't above the limit while driving, and their BAC has since gone above the limit.
If due to delays, such as a refusal and we need to get a warrant, the test shows, say a .06% BAC 3 hours later we can still extrapolate the reading back to above a .08% through expert testimony. The average person will metabolize .015% per hour. So 3 (hours) x .015 = .045 + .06 = .105% BAC
Even though we can't force a person to do FSTs, we can use the refusal in court. In all my years of doing this, I have never had a violator refuse FSTs. Remember that the first thing to be impaired is JUDGMENT! The alcohol makes them think that they can pass the tests, and they go ahead and do it.
We love it when they make statements such as "I couldn't do these tests sober", or 1/2 way through they just say "Screw it, I'm drunk. Take me away."
Most of our stops on the highway use dash cams. When one of these is used, and we have the entire thing on tape, there is very little defense that they weren't impaired, when it shows them falling out of the car and walking back leaning on the car, stumbling etc. All those high priced lawyers can do in those cases is to try and get it plead down (unlikely) or argue PC for the stop. (even more unlikely).
13384. (a) The department shall not issue or renew a driver's license to any person unless the person consents in writing to submit to a chemical test or tests of that person's blood, breath, or urine pursuant to Section 23612, or a preliminary alcohol screening test pursuant to Section 23136, when requested to do so by a peace officer.
From the looks of California law here, it looks like you don't have the right to refuse a preliminary (roadside) breath test.

[HavasuSelect]

I have a question as to a certain F.S.T. The officer made me recite every other letter of the alphabet with my arms fully extended at shoulder height and my head tilted back into the sunlight. Is this a standard test that is normally given?

[Boatcop]

I have a question as to a certain F.S.T. The officer made me recite every other letter of the alphabet with my arms fully extended at shoulder height and my head tilted back into the sunlight. Is this a standard test that is normally given?
Was this a highway or a lake stop?
There's only 3 validated FSTs for use on the highway. HGN, Walk and Turn, and One leg Stand.
FSTs for watercraft haven't been validated (yet). In AZ we are using HGN, Alphabet (every other letter) recite (no arms up or head tilt), 30 second estimation and seated finger to nose.
In studies we did several years ago, we found that those are the best indicators of impairment on the water. We are supposed to be using those 4 as much possible to get field data on their application.
But since none are validated as of yet, pretty much anything can be used. We do, however, try to stay away from those that require balance or other such tests, since boat motion and "sea legs" can throw those off and get invalid results.

[Kilrtoy]

Overall good advice, but I doubt that refusing the FST is gonna change much in the long run. Friggen piglets will lie and steal to get a conviction. It's called creative writing 101... "the perps eyes were bloodshot and he was staggering around the scene (even if you never got out of your car) and his speech was slurred". That little bit of "evidence" is just as good as any ol' subjective FST.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
You are so far off I thought you were telling fairy tales.....
:boxed:
In Cali refusal is worse... You may not get the conviction, but your CDL is gone for 1 year compared to 1
month, plus applicable fines will still apply

[HavasuSelect]

Was this a highway or a lake stop?
There's only 3 validated FSTs for use on the highway. HGN, Walk and Turn, and One leg Stand.
FSTs for watercraft haven't been validated (yet). In AZ we are using HGN, Alphabet (every other letter) recite (no arms up or head tilt), 30 second estimation and seated finger to nose.
In studies we did several years ago, we found that those are the best indicators of impairment on the water. We are supposed to be using those 4 as much possible to get field data on their application.
But since none are validated as of yet, pretty much anything can be used. We do, however, try to stay away from those that require balance or other such tests, since boat motion and "sea legs" can throw those off and get invalid results.
I'm sorry, I should have stated it was on the water. It was last Memorial at Windsor. AZ Fish and Game gave the test. I just thought it was a little odd. Thanks for the info.

[CBadDad]

You are so far off I thought you were telling fairy tales.....
:boxed:
In Cali refusal is worse... You may not get the conviction, but your CDL is gone for 1 year compared to 1
month, plus applicable fines will still apply
Here we go again kilr, you want to use clear text for us uninformed. :rolleyes:
I didn't mention anything about refusing to blow.

[SnoopJonnyJon]

Was this a highway or a lake stop?
There's only 3 validated FSTs for use on the highway. HGN, Walk and Turn, and One leg Stand.
FSTs for watercraft haven't been validated (yet). In AZ we are using HGN, Alphabet (every other letter) recite (no arms up or head tilt), 30 second estimation and seated finger to nose.
In studies we did several years ago, we found that those are the best indicators of impairment on the water. We are supposed to be using those 4 as much possible to get field data on their application.
But since none are validated as of yet, pretty much anything can be used. We do, however, try to stay away from those that require balance or other such tests, since boat motion and "sea legs" can throw those off and get invalid results.
Man, it's a good thing I have never had a drink in my life... because there is no way I can say every second letter in the alphabet. I guess that's the problem with being an engineer. I'd rather be asked to do a calculus exam on the side of the road.

[HavasuSelect]

Man, it's a good thing I have never had a drink in my life... because there is no way I can say every second letter in the alphabet. I guess that's the problem with being an engineer. I'd rather be asked to do a calculus exam on the side of the road.
When I read the report it stated that I passed it. I just sang the Alphabet song in my head.

[Ziggy]

Man, it's a good thing I have never had a drink in my life... because there is no way I can say every second letter in the alphabet. I guess that's the problem with being an engineer. I'd rather be asked to do a calculus exam on the side of the road.
I was thinking the same thing.....When in your life have you ever recited every other letter in the alphabet??? I'm sitting here right now at work and couldn't do it....No way, no how....
.

[CBadDad]

Just recite the alphabet but only vocalize every other letter.
Did you go to Hooters for lunch?

[ratso]

Was this a highway or a lake stop?
There's only 3 validated FSTs for use on the highway. HGN, Walk and Turn, and One leg Stand.
FSTs for watercraft haven't been validated (yet). In AZ we are using HGN, Alphabet (every other letter) recite (no arms up or head tilt), 30 second estimation and seated finger to nose.
In studies we did several years ago, we found that those are the best indicators of impairment on the water. We are supposed to be using those 4 as much possible to get field data on their application.
But since none are validated as of yet, pretty much anything can be used. We do, however, try to stay away from those that require balance or other such tests, since boat motion and "sea legs" can throw those off and get invalid results.
...maybe I'm just a dumbass, but every other letter... you may as well haul me in stone cold sober :yuk:

[Ziggy]

Just recite the alphabet but only vocalize every other letter.
Did you go to Hooters for lunch?
Sing and hum on the one they don't want to hear...LOL
.
Haven't graced the place with my pressence since we all were there last...
Did I tell you my car wouldn't start when we left there....I was low on gas and the car was tilted slightly....Lucky I was to have my local tow co. nearby to bring me a splash of petrol :D

[Kilrtoy]

Here we go again kilr, you want to use clear text for us uninformed. :rolleyes:
I didn't mention anything about refusing to blow.
Where should I start, there is way to much here to reply to , I have other threads requiring my attention
Overall good advice, but I doubt that refusing the FST is gonna change much in the long run. Friggen piglets will lie and steal to get a conviction. It's called creative writing 101... "the perps eyes were bloodshot and he was staggering around the scene (even if you never got out of your car) and his speech was slurred". That little bit of "evidence" is just as good as any ol' subjective FST.
If you lived closer i would take you out and through the whole process ofcourse when your sober and watch how the whole story unfolds and you would be shocked in the end. Ofcourse the cops lie cheat and steal, they are all on commission and need to get their pay checks one way or another :rolleyes:

[CBadDad]

...maybe I'm just a dumbass, but every other letter... you may as well haul me in stone cold sober :yuk:
It's all bullshit, that's why you don't have to do it.

[Kilrtoy]

It's all bullshit, that's why you don't have to do it.
Sounds like an angry hose dragger who got popped to me!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ziggy]

Sounds like an angry hose dragger who got popped to me!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL---I thought you guys all worked for us, we the people :D :D Don't be hatin' on each other. :)

[CBadDad]

Where should I start, there is way to much here to reply to , I have other threads requiring my attention
Overall good advice, but I doubt that refusing the FST is gonna change much in the long run. Friggen piglets will lie and steal to get a conviction. It's called creative writing 101... "the perps eyes were bloodshot and he was staggering around the scene (even if you never got out of your car) and his speech was slurred". That little bit of "evidence" is just as good as any ol' subjective FST.
If you lived closer i would take you out and through the whole process ofcourse when your sober and watch how the whole story unfolds and you would be shocked in the end. Ofcourse the cops lie cheat and steal, they are all on commission and need to get their pay checks one way or another :rolleyes:
My point was that the FST is subjective and you shouldn't do it, but at the same time it doesn't matter.
As far as the lie, steal & cheat comment, it's a cat and mouse game for (most) cops. If you admit guilt they'll back off, but if you try and exercise your rights, they'll do whatever they have to, to get it right.
I've seen it first hand, but I'll show you that I'm not the only one. Pulled this off of the Delta DUI thread...
I was with O.C. on that shit day a couple of years ago. Yes we were drunk and in the wrong. The Law/Sherriff (if you can call him that), pulled us over from "hear say" witch is illegal. We went to court with a lawer to fight the "hear say" issue. Officer Dick lied in court under oath in front of a judge and a long story-short O.C. got NAILED!
Sorry to hear about you guys getting popped. I personally lost alot of respect for the law after that day.
What about the whole Rampart deal? You know that shit happens all of the time all over this country and its flat out wrong. I could go on some long psycobable rant as to why this shit happens, but I've said enough.
One last thing. I don't drive drunk. Have a few cold ones and hit the road, maybe, but if I'm driving I pay attention to what I'm drinking. I've seen the effects first hand what drunk drivers do.

[CBadDad]

Sounds like an angry hose dragger who got popped to me!!!!!!!!!!!
Nope, never got popped. Guess again.

[Kilrtoy]

My point was that the FST is subjective and you shouldn't do it, but at the same time it doesn't matter.
As far as the lie, steal & cheat comment, it's a cat and mouse game for (most) cops. If you admit guilt they'll back off, but if you try and exercise your rights, they'll do whatever they have to, to get it right.
I've seen it first hand, but I'll show you that I'm not the only one. Pulled this off of the Delta DUI thread...
What about the whole Rampart deal? You know that shit happens all of the time all over this country and its flat out wrong. I could go on some long psycobable rant as to why this shit happens, but I've said enough.
One last thing. I don't drive drunk. Have a few cold ones and hit the road, maybe, but if I'm driving I pay attention to what I'm drinking. I've seen the effects first hand what drunk drivers do.
Yes there are a few bad cops, I will whole heartedly agree, But to place a blanket statement over all of them is wrong.
AS FAR AS RAMPART, IM SURE YOU AND 95% OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WOULD PISS ON themselves IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY IN THAT NECK OF THE WOODS. I spent 3, long, hard, emotional years in the place, dont even talk about rampart if you have never been there, let alone work there.
As of last it was only two cops that went down behind that crap, Rafael Perez and Nino Derdon....
When I do my job, I dont first call the Fd to come and handle it for me, To bad the same cant be said.

[Boatcop]

I was thinking the same thing.....When in your life have you ever recited every other letter in the alphabet??? I'm sitting here right now at work and couldn't do it....No way, no how....
.
It's actually very easy. As someone said, recite it in your head, but vocalize every other letter. No time limit. Just go slow.
Most impaired people get about 1/2 way through it, then lose train of thought, start reciting every letter, start over, repeat letters, revert to an earlier letter, etc. In our studies we found that with, very few exceptions, sober folks got through it all, no problem. Those with .08% or higher tend to start screwing up around "I" or "K". The higher the BAC, the earlier they mess it up.
But again, we don't base the decision just on a single test. It's the totality of the evidence that leads to our decision to arrest or not.
Just to let you all know a little secret, you're doing FSTs from the first second we make contact. How you go about getting the equipment we ask for, answering our questions while you're getting the stuff. (Divided attention - forgetting what we asked for, stopping to think about our questions, name, city, etc.) Putting on the PFD if we ask you to come aboard our boats, etc.
Most sober people can multi-task, give us their name, where they live, etc. while they're doing something else, like diggin out PFDs, fire extinguisher, registration, etc. Impaired people have to stop one thing to do another. When their attention is taken away from what they're concentrating on, they tend to forget the original task.
Kind of like having to concentrate on throttle, steering, direction, other boats, etc. while driving a boat.

[Super D]

My true story: got pulled over (I was absolutely buzzed), failed the fst, was told to blow breath - I refused. Cop gets mad, I get cuffed, go to cop station, pace constantly, burped prior to breath test at station, cop gets mad. Now I have a choice - blood or urine, for whatever reason I choose blood. They call phlebotomist, takes her approx an hour to arrive, I pace constantly. ABout 2 hours from when this all started I give blood, I pull .07 - barely legal. They still send me a letter they are pursuing me for under influence (part b or whatever...), I get a lawyer, it all goes away. About $1,000 later I have my license again, l don't drink and drive anymore.
Don't be an idiot - DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE!!! :crossx:

[Boatcop]

My point was that the FST is subjective
FSTs are NOT subjective. They have been studied, tested, and (in the case of Motor Vehicles) validated as a measurable test of impairment level.
We just don't watch. We are recording the performance. How many steps you take off of the line. How many steps you don't make heel to toe. How many times you put your foot down. If you "hop" to maintain balance. How many times you forget the directions (count to 30, keep arms down, etc.)
That's where we're at with the watercraft FSTs. We're gathering the data to submit to NHTSA to have them validated.
We have had people who do fairly well on FSTs, but are still above (sometimes WAY above) the legal limit. (believe it or not, people actually practive these things while they're drunk, to try and get away with it later)
But rarely do we have people do poorly on the FSTs and NOT be impaired by some substance, determined later by chemical testing.

[CBadDad]

I don't know why you want to make this a fire vs police thing? It's not to me anyways, you probably heard a new one at the donut shop that you want to break out on here. :rolleyes:
You don't know me either or how I grew up. But for the record, just because you put on a gun and a badge and went into that area, I AM NOT IMPRESSED (maybe thankful, but still not impressed). For your 411, I grew up on the west side of LBC and am as white as they come. Many years I was the only white kid in my class and since I was never very fast, learned how to brawl. I can remember having to ride my bike down the middle of the street just so I would have reaction time before some tried to jump me. Drive by's were common and had a little girl that was in my second grade class killed and that was 35 yrs ago. You have no idea...I could show up in that area today and not get harrassed, so step off fool (that last line was suppose to be funny).
Back on topic. You admit yourself that there are bad cops. Maybe you don't get a comission, but some of you must feel that it'll make things look better to your boss if you have more arrest and convictions. Or is it a Capone thing? You don't always catch them doing the really bad stuff, but you always catch 'em. I dunno, you tell us...
__________________
I take everything I read here with a grain of salt...Hell, I don't believe half of the shit that I write!

[CBadDad]

FSTs are NOT subjective. They have been studied, tested, and (in the case of Motor Vehicles) validated as a measurable test of impairment level.
We just don't watch. We are recording the performance. How many steps you take off of the line. How many steps you don't make heel to toe. How many times you put your foot down. If you "hop" to maintain balance. How many times you forget the directions (count to 30, keep arms down, etc.)
That's where we're at with the watercraft FSTs. We're gathering the data to submit to NHTSA to have them validated.
We have had people who do fairly well on FSTs, but are still above (sometimes WAY above) the legal limit. (believe it or not, people actually practive these things while they're drunk, to try and get away with it later)
But rarely do we have people do poorly on the FSTs and NOT be impaired by some substance, determined later by chemical testing.
O.K., I believe you that the test is not subjective, only what you write down.
Sorry, don't mean to offend all LEO's just Kilr...

[Kilrtoy]

I don't know why you want to make this a fire vs police thing? It's not to me anyways, you probably heard a new one at the donut shop that you want to break out on here. :rolleyes:
You don't know me either or how I grew up. But for the record, just because you put on a gun and a badge and went into that area, I AM NOT IMPRESSED (maybe thankful, but still not impressed). For your 411, I grew up on the west side of LBC and am as white as they come. Many years I was the only white kid in my class and since I was never very fast, learned how to brawl. I can remember having to ride my bike down the middle of the street just so I would have reaction time before some tried to jump me. Drive by's were common and had a little girl that was in my second grade class killed and that was 35 yrs ago. You have no idea...I could show up in that area today and not get harrassed, so step off fool (that last line was suppose to be funny).
Back on topic. You admit yourself that there are bad cops. Maybe you don't get a comission, but some of you must feel that it'll make things look better to your boss if you have more arrest and convictions. Or is it a Capone thing? You don't always catch them doing the really bad stuff, but you always catch 'em. I dunno, you tell us...
__________________
I take everything I read here with a grain of salt...Hell, I don't believe half of the shit that I write!
Long Beach are you serious, Long beach is like disneyland when the power goes out, just a bunch of unhappy 3rd graders :rolleyes: as far as being impressed, do you really think I care?
The only boss i worry about is the wife, they rest don't add up or hold weight

[Kilrtoy]

I don't know why you want to make this a fire vs police thing? It's not to me anyways, you probably heard a new one at the donut shop that you want to break out on here. :rolleyes:
I never heard a fireman be referred to as a hero, until 911, now you all call yourselfs HERO
Why is that?
I just mess with ya'll because you are all so sensitive...
YOU WILL NEVER HEAR ME CALL MYSELF A HERO

[RitcheyRch]

I was thinking the same thing.
Man, it's a good thing I have never had a drink in my life... because there is no way I can say every second letter in the alphabet. I guess that's the problem with being an engineer. I'd rather be asked to do a calculus exam on the side of the road.

[topless]

The only boss i worry about is the wife, they rest don't add up or hold weight
Don't lie, I know you worry about me too.

[mike37]

FSTs are NOT subjective. They have been studied, tested, and (in the case of Motor Vehicles) validated as a measurable test of impairment level.
We just don't watch. We are recording the performance. How many steps you take off of the line. How many steps you don't make heel to toe. How many times you put your foot down. If you "hop" to maintain balance. How many times you forget the directions (count to 30, keep arms down, etc.)
That's where we're at with the watercraft FSTs. We're gathering the data to submit to NHTSA to have them validated.
We have had people who do fairly well on FSTs, but are still above (sometimes WAY above) the legal limit. (believe it or not, people actually practive these things while they're drunk, to try and get away with it later)
But rarely do we have people do poorly on the FSTs and NOT be impaired by some substance, determined later by chemical testing.
I must be drunk right now cus I cant do the alphabet every other letter to save my life
and I haven't had a drink in two weeks
so how **** am I if I just tell you I cant do that right up front and I'm not drunk

[79 HUSTLER]

I'm focking drunk.... :) :)

[CBadDad]

I never heard a fireman be referred to as a hero, until 911, now you all call yourselfs HERO
Why is that?
I just mess with ya'll because you are all so sensitive...
YOU WILL NEVER HEAR ME CALL MYSELF A HERO
Never called myself a hero either, nor have I heard any of my bro's refer to themselves as hero's either. We're mostly just a bunch of folks that are glad we don't have to really work for a living.
I don't blame cops for disliking fireman. I mean, everyone is glad to see a fireman, but when a cop is in the area, everyone is worried they're gonna get a ticket or something. I mean, when was the last time anyone took some cookies to the police station? Not that you guys would eat them, too afraid they were poisoned. But your jelousy is unbecoming...

[CBadDad]

Long Beach are you serious, Long beach is like disneyland when the power goes out, just a bunch of unhappy 3rd graders :rolleyes: as far as being impressed, do you really think I care?
The only boss i worry about is the wife, they rest don't add up or hold weight
That's it?
No enlightenment as to why some cops lie?

[Kilrtoy]

That's it?
No enlightenment as to why some cops lie?
cops lie, fireman kill people all in the same i guess
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=4270929

[CBadDad]

cops lie, fireman kill people all in the same i guess
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=4270929
Dude, that is soooooo wrong.

[Kilrtoy]

Dude, that is soooooo wrong.
I didnt kill my wife....

[topless]

I didnt kill my wife....Buy right now, You're killing me Larry.

[CBadDad]

I didnt kill my wife....
Niether did I, but oh how I wanted to at times and if she get's wacked today, I will be the first one that gets talked too (although I won't say a word to them and I won't take a lie detector test either).
Talk about being overly sensitive...You admitted that there are some bad cops. I just asked you to enlighten us as to why they are bad. I'm not talking about the ones that are on the take, that's obvious. But why do some cops feel like they have to lie in there paperwork or on the stand (under oath no less) to get an arrest or a conviction. I said why I think it is, what's your take???

[Dave C]

so what your saying is that if someone no speak da englis' they get off the DUI.... ;) ;) :rollside: :rollside:
Most impaired people get about 1/2 way through it, then lose train of thought, start reciting every letter, start over, repeat letters, revert to an earlier letter, etc. In our studies we found that with, very few exceptions, sober folks got through it all, no problem. Those with .08% or higher tend to start screwing up around "I" or "K". The higher the BAC, the earlier they mess it up.
.

[Kilrtoy]

I won't take a lie detector test either).
Now that is subjective
Talk about being overly sensitive...You admitted that there are some bad cops. I just asked you to enlighten us as to why they are bad. I'm not talking about the ones that are on the take, that's obvious. But why do some cops feel like they have to lie in there paperwork or on the stand (under oath no less) to get an arrest or a conviction. I said why I think it is, what's your take???
I cant answer that question, I have never done that and dont have any need to . You would have to ask one who has

[Kilrtoy]

so what your saying is that if someone no speak da englis' they get off the DUI.... ;) ;) :rollside: :rollside:
No they get ripped out of their car and get their ass beat....
IM JUST KIDDING :boxed:

[Legal Chemistry]

[QUOTE=Boatcop]
(Divided attention - forgetting what we asked for, stopping to think about our questions, name, city, etc.) ... Most sober people can multi-task, give us their name, where they live, etc. while they're doing something else, like diggin out PFDs, fire extinguisher, registration, etc. Impaired people have to stop one thing to do another. When their attention is taken away from what they're concentrating on, they tend to forget the original task.
QUOTE]
Jeez, I'm phucked! I have the world's worst ADD!!!!! Kind of like ABC's, did I tell you the story when I was in 1st grade? I was the 1st person to get a burrito. A burrito is like a horse, called a burro. Crabs burrow. Yum, crabs, steak, and lobster - dinner tonight. Like last night for dinner... :220v:
OH SH!T -where was I again?????? :cry:

[ratso]

[QUOTE=Boatcop]
(Divided attention - forgetting what we asked for, stopping to think about our questions, name, city, etc.) ... Most sober people can multi-task, give us their name, where they live, etc. while they're doing something else, like diggin out PFDs, fire extinguisher, registration, etc. Impaired people have to stop one thing to do another. When their attention is taken away from what they're concentrating on, they tend to forget the original task.
QUOTE]
Jeez, I'm phucked! I have the world's worst ADD!!!!! Kind of like ABC's, did I tell you the story when I was in 1st grade? I was the 1st person to get a burrito. A burrito is like a horse, called a burro. Crabs burrow. Yum, crabs, steak, and lobster - dinner tonight. Like last night for dinner... :220v:
OH SH!T -where was I again?????? :cry:
lol... I have a headache now. :hammerhea

[HocusPocus]

i did it!!!! i did it!!! every other letter in the alphabet! took me a few tries though.. and i don't drink at all.. ever. :)

[John.]

Niether did I, but oh how I wanted to at times and if she get's wacked today, I will be the first one that gets talked too (although I won't say a word to them and I won't take a lie detector test either).
Talk about being overly sensitive...You admitted that there are some bad cops. I just asked you to enlighten us as to why they are bad. I'm not talking about the ones that are on the take, that's obvious. But why do some cops feel like they have to lie in there paperwork or on the stand (under oath no less) to get an arrest or a conviction. I said why I think it is, what's your take???
How about something even more pressing...Why do some firefighters have sex with sheep???
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0307062sheep1.html
:220v:
Any yet another good reason to not drink too much.

[CBadDad]

How about something even more pressing...Why do some firefighters have sex with sheep???
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0307062sheep1.html
:220v:
Any yet another good reason to not drink too much.
"The Smoking Gun", now there is a credible source....Did you even read the police report? Looks like creative writing 101 by the deputy and the media. He was charged with tresspassing and disorderly conduct. But you already decided he's guilty...Maybe ol' Alan just wants to annex his property, like he said (not that I believe that for a minute).
That was just a stupid post. I bet I could find way more stupid cop links. Here are a few...
Why do cops hate tourist?
http://www.officer.com/article/index.jsp?siteSection=1
Why do cops think they have fee reign to kill people?
http://flyservers.com/members5/policecrime.com/police_brutality.html
Why d cops like to have sex with underage girls?
http://www.ktvu.com/news/9226966/detail.html

[CBadDad]

I cant answer that question, I have never done that and dont have any need to . You would have to ask one who has
Alright, fair enough. I'll get off your case.

[RiverDave]

FSTs are NOT subjective. They have been studied, tested, and (in the case of Motor Vehicles) validated as a measurable test of impairment level.
We just don't watch. We are recording the performance. How many steps you take off of the line. How many steps you don't make heel to toe. How many times you put your foot down. If you "hop" to maintain balance. How many times you forget the directions (count to 30, keep arms down, etc.)
That's where we're at with the watercraft FSTs. We're gathering the data to submit to NHTSA to have them validated.
We have had people who do fairly well on FSTs, but are still above (sometimes WAY above) the legal limit. (believe it or not, people actually practive these things while they're drunk, to try and get away with it later)
But rarely do we have people do poorly on the FSTs and NOT be impaired by some substance, determined later by chemical testing.
You see BoatCop.. I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, but I'm dead sober at work right now, and I failed the ABC every other letter test. I don't feel so bad though becuase apparently..
SnoopJohnnyJon
Man, it's a good thing I have never had a drink in my life... because there is no way I can say every second letter in the alphabet. I guess that's the problem with being an engineer. I'd rather be asked to do a calculus exam on the side of the road.
Admitted he would fail.. I think he'd probably pass on the calculus exam though even after a few beers. Perhaps that should be an FST? Just as likely as I'd pass that on the 1st shot, then this ABC dealio.
Havasu Select - claims he passed it..
When I read the report it stated that I passed it. I just sang the Alphabet song in my head.
I question if he could do it in the middle of the night with some guy shining a light in his face on the side of the road already scared out of his wits..
Ziggy
I was thinking the same thing.....When in your life have you ever recited every other letter in the alphabet??? I'm sitting here right now at work and couldn't do it....No way, no how....
Can't do it.. He mighta been drinking at lunch though so who knows? Seriously.. Dead sober failed the test.
Ratso
...maybe I'm just a dumbass, but every other letter... you may as well haul me in stone cold sober
Failed
RitcheyRitch
I was thinking the same thing.
Failed
Can't do it.. referring back to SnoopJonnyJon's post.
Mike37
I must be drunk right now cus I cant do the alphabet every other letter to save my life
and I haven't had a drink in two weeks
so how **** am I if I just tell you I cant do that right up front and I'm not drunk
Failed, and is asking how screwed he is BTW..
79Hustler
I'm focking drunk....
I'm assuming he's being sarcastic about not being able to pass this test either? If not maybe he's really is just drunk.
Legal Chemistry
Jeez, I'm phucked! I have the world's worst ADD!!!!! Kind of like ABC's, did I tell you the story when I was in 1st grade? I was the 1st person to get a burrito. A burrito is like a horse, called a burro. Crabs burrow. Yum, crabs, steak, and lobster - dinner tonight. Like last night for dinner...
OH SH!T -where was I again??????
Being sarcastic about failing. the Jeez I'm phucked part implies failed though.
Hocus Pocus
i did it!!!! i did it!!! every other letter in the alphabet! took me a few tries though.. and i don't drink at all.. ever.
Failed the FST on the first COUPLE TRIES, and claims he doesn't drink ever..
Now I'm going to show you the difference between the mentallity of someone that enforces the law, me someone whom doesn't. ;)
It's actually very easy.
Here you have 9 people (including myself) that are intelligent SOBER (at present) subjects that all failed this "easy" SOBRIETY test. Yet you in an earlier post flat out said they are NOT subjective? How on gods green earth do you figure that? The reason it's "easy" for you and other officers is becuase when you learned the test you guys all failed it the 1st time too and probably had a little laugh about it.. Then after a couple tries you got it down cold! Now it's "easy" Well on the side of the road that would be my 1st time doing this?
As someone said, recite it in your head, but vocalize every other letter. No time limit. Just go slow.
If this test was in fact "easy" and any joe schmoe could pass it sober, then there should be no reason to have to give any kinda tip on how to pass it. The law to drive a car (as it has been explained to me) equates out to the lowest common denominator. I.E. The person that has one drink and is "impaired." That's the way it has to be.. What about the tests to prove sobriety? Obviously those aren't the lowest common denominator becuase there's people out there that don't even know the whole alphabet and 9 INTELLIGENT SOBER PEOPLE right here that just failed it? (Few Exceptions? Looking like 90% to me?)
Most impaired people get about 1/2 way through it, then lose train of thought, start reciting every letter, start over, repeat letters, revert to an earlier letter, etc. In our studies we found that with, very few exceptions, sober folks got through it all, no problem.
Well this isn't a professional study or anything, but so far out of 10 people only one passed it the 1st time? And happened to be humming the letters you don't want to hear (same advice given by you?) If I was standing on the side of the road and even had one beer, I'd be doing my damndest not to be "humming" in front of whomever? LOL.. I would start just like I did.. A, C, E, ????
[quote]
Those with .08% or higher tend to start screwing up around "I" or "K". The higher the BAC, the earlier they mess it up.
This test is so not subjective that we can even start to guess BAC's by which letter they miss on etc.. Yet 9 out of 10 people failed it on here there 1st try? In the comfort of their own workplace, without a light shining in their eyes, and a figure of authority directing orders at them in a less then "asking" fashion..
Tell me how this makes any sense? If you have an explanation for that, I'd love to hear it, becuase from my dead SOBER (haven't had a drink since memorial day) opinion that particular test is focked.. LOL "I couldn't pass it sober" doesn't necesarrily mean I'm drunk right now.. It means I literally failed this thing Sober. Now if I practiced it a few times and got it down cold, then I'd be one of those asshole drunks that practiced it..
Kinda damned if ya do and damned if ya don't. LOL
When you get to the office in the morning boatcop, walk up to one of the fireguys and ask them to do this test without ANY INSTRUCTION other then every other letter, and see if they pass. I think you might be surprised at the failure rate of this "easy" test. Or better yet, ask the Mrs when you get home?
Again none of this shit really matters to me becuase I don't drink and drive anymore, and if I'm drinking I have a DD. But you have to admit some of the stuff used to implicate "impaired" is.. well maybe not as accurate as they'd have you believe?
If you'd like me to prove it to you, I can take a video camera and film 10 random people try and perform this test sober, and after that a few people that have been drinking just for good measure.
Maybe it's time to take a good hard look at some of those stats etc.. that the state is giving you guys and ask yourself.. How "subjective" are these? Just becuase they said it, and they "studied" it doesn't necesarilly mean it's true.
State decides what's legal and what's not as far as tests etc.. State gets paid on DUI's. So when people say it's all about the $$$, there not claiming it's you getting the money, the city does get some of it. The rest? It's all the government to us and DUI's, Tickets of any nature are in fact a "fundraiser." I.E. Click it or Ticket in California? California has a budget crisis, and so the cops are literally out raising some money. Courts have been told to lessen the amount of "reduced" fines.. Yet apparently "justice is blind." Maybe in a perfect world, but certainly not in this one.
RD ;)

[Daytona100]

Im another dumbass who failed dead sober. After the tip of doing it in my head and vocalizing every other letter it was easy. But stressing on the boat with the family on board it would be a different story. We only keep water on the boat so I dont really have to worry about it. But I would no doubt fail the test if I really had to think about it. But I would pass the breathalyzer and blood test.

[FreshTracks]

RD-- Well put. Nice post.

[HavasuSelect]

I did do it. Granted I did get mixed up at one point, and forgot which letter I was on. I was also wondering if they administer that test to everyone. Before they started that test they asked what my highest level of education was. I said "college". I'm wondering if they give that particular test to high school drop outs or to people who might not know the alphabet in the first place.

[RiverDave]

I did do it. Granted I did get mixed up at one point, and forgot which letter I was on. I was also wondering if they administer that test to everyone. Before they started that test they asked what my highest level of education was. I said "college". I'm wondering if they give that particular test to high school drop outs or to people who might not know the alphabet in the first place.
Were you dead sober when you got mixed up on the letter? Aside from the point whether or not you passed the test is irrelevant.
It's the 9 dead sober guys in the comfort of their own offices that just failed the test and the fact that it's referred to as "easy" is more what concerns me. I failed it sitting here at my desk sober.. I'd damn sure fail it on the side of the road being nervous and standing in front of a cop.
Whether I had 1 beer, 10 beers, or zero beers wouldn't change the outcome of the test is my point, so how is that a valid approved and "studied" test? This is the real world, with real people, and roughly 90% just failed the damn thing..
Incidentally BOTH engineers here whom are both college grads both just failed it as well.. So that's 3 for 3 in my office. I actually had to make a cheat sheet just to see if they were doing it right or not both screwed up midway through.
Kinda makes you say WTF? How's some poor avg non edumucated joe smoe like myself going to pass this thing on the FIRST try.
RD

[HavasuSelect]

P.S. Someone stated before that there isn't a time limit. In my situation that was false. While I was taking the test my eyes were closed. When I finished the alphabet I opened my eyes and saw the officer looking at his stop watch. When I received the report I noticed that the officer stated that I completed the test in about 32 seconds. This was by AZ Fish and Game.

[HavasuSelect]

Were you dead sober when you got mixed up on the letter? Aside from the point whether or not you passed the test is irrelevant.
It's the 9 dead sober guys in the comfort of their own offices that just failed the test and the fact that it's referred to as "easy" is more what concerns me. I failed it sitting here at my desk sober.. I'd damn sure fail it on the side of the road being nervous and standing in front of a cop.
Whether I had 1 beer, 10 beers, or zero beers wouldn't change the outcome of the test is my point, so how is that a valid approved and "studied" test? This is the real world, with real people, and roughly 90% just failed the damn thing..
Incidentally BOTH engineers here whom are both college grads both just failed it as well.. So that's 3 for 3 in my office. I actually had to make a cheat sheet just to see if they were doing it right or not both screwed up midway through.
Kinda makes you say WTF? How's some poor avg non edumucated joe smoe like myself going to pass this thing on the FIRST try.
RD
I'm not arguing that fact. I really don't agree with that particular test. My dad is a retired cop in Parker. When I told him about the test he'd never even heard about it.

[Kilrtoy]

Wife just did it, But she is smart :boxed:
I still cant do it....

[Boatcop]

You guys are confusing the validated roadside FSTs with water FSTs. As I said, for motor vehicle FSTs, only 3 are validated. HGN, Walk and Turn, and One Leg Stand.
Validated means they have been tested, both in control situations and in the field, sufficiently to make them an acceptable measure of impairment in the average person. It also means that they cannot be argued as a "subjective" test.
There are no FSTs that are (yet) validated for use on the water. Those that I described, HGN, 30 second estimate, every other letter alphabet, seated finger to nose, have undergone the controlled testing, and are currently undergoing field testing, through our use of them.
Once a sufficient number of field tests are completed (I don't know how many that is) the results of the testing will be submitted to NHTSA for further control testing, and if they show that they are an acceptable measure of impairment, without being too complicated for the average person, they will then be validated for water use.
If it turns out that is not the case, they will be scrapped and other methods will be developed.
There is no law, written anywhere in any law book, that tells us what FSTs to use. We use what we're trained to use.
Last night I asked my wife to do the every other alphabet test, just for the heck of it. She ran right through it, no problem. No extra instruction. Just told her to recite every other letter of the alphabet. Breezed it from A-Y.
That was generally the same result of the hundreds of people that were tested in the "control" portion of the watercraft FST evaluations.
I don't get to pick and choose what tests I do. I do them as I've been trained to do.
Until they are officially Validated, the defense in an OUI case can argue their effectiveness in evaluating level of impairment. All we can do is do things the way we're trained.
In the case of the Game and Fish Officers, It sounds like either they weren't doing them correctly, or memory of the events are a little foggy and the 2 tests (30 second estimate and alphabet) were combined. I can't say. I wasn't there.

[Jordy]

How's some poor avg non edumucated joe smoe like myself going to pass this thing on the FIRST try.
RD
Wait until they non-subjectively ask you to do it in Russian... :D :D :D

[Jbb]

Riverdave,left.......studying for the FST's...... :p
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860thug.jpg

[Quid Pro Quo]

Yes there are a few bad cops, I will whole heartedly agree, But to place a blanket statement over all of them is wrong.
AS FAR AS RAMPART, IM SURE YOU AND 95% OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WOULD PISS ON themselves IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY IN THAT NECK OF THE WOODS. I spent 3, long, hard, emotional years in the place, dont even talk about rampart if you have never been there, let alone work there.
As of last it was only two cops that went down behind that crap, Rafael Perez and Nino Derdon....
When I do my job, I dont first call the Fd to come and handle it for me, To bad the same cant be said.
Hey Kilr I'm a LAFD Firefighter/Paramedic on Skid Row and I take offense to your comments. Sounds like your a little jealouse of the FD. It's o.k I understand you didn't mean to stand in the wrong line. I have a joke for you to make you feel a little better o.k.?
What do cops and Firemen have in common? They both want to be firemen!

[Kilrtoy]

Hey Kilr I'm a LAFD Firefighter/Paramedic on Skid Row and I take offense to your comments. Sounds like your a little jealouse of the FD. It's o.k I understand you didn't mean to stand in the wrong line. I have a joke for you to make you feel a little better o.k.?
What do cops and Firemen have in common? They both want to be firemen!
HAHAHAHA, that is almost laughable, so you are in the 5% I refer to, but you still call us in before you go in, facts are facts, cant change them :boxed:
that joke has been told so much on here it is almost as old, tired and worn out as "HB HAS A MAGAZINE", that is a damn close second

[Legal Chemistry]

Well boys and girls... if your in a crunch with the "field sobriety trouble" -I travel with my attorney -we're here to assist a lending hand... just be careful out there "wink-wink". Or just carry a cool g in your glovebox -works all the same, j/k. lol

[famaffair]

How many COPS, Fireman, Families coming home from a river trip, have been killed by ignorant D.U.I drivers? I wish I knew an exact amount, but one is way too many.
Bottom line, those who drive drunk boat or car should be locked up and pay a heavy price. The average person that is arrested for drunk driving had driven drunk 15-20 timnes before they were caught. Getting off on a small technical issue can go either way. For some it would be a lesson learned and they would avoid driving under the influence at all cost. Idiots would feel they could do it again because there is always a way to beat the system.
This .2 cents has been added by famaffir :) :) :)
Stay tuned for new boat "Family Affair Part II" should be on the water by Labor Day.

[ratso]

How many COPS, Fireman, Families coming home from a river trip, have been killed by ignorant D.U.I drivers? I wish I knew an exact amount, but one is way too many.
Bottom line, those who drive drunk boat or car should be locked up and pay a heavy price. The average person that is arrested for drunk driving had driven drunk 15-20 timnes before they were caught. Getting off on a small technical issue can go either way. For some it would be a lesson learned and they would avoid driving under the influence at all cost. Idiots would feel they could do it again because there is always a way to beat the system.
This .2 cents has been added by famaffir :) :) :)
Stay tuned for new boat "Family Affair Part II" should be on the water by Labor Day.
A cop here was busted on some child molestation charge recently... I don't think that would be one too many.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

How many COPS, Fireman, Families coming home from a river trip, have been killed by ignorant D.U.I drivers? I wish I knew an exact amount, but one is way too many.
Bottom line, those who drive drunk boat or car should be locked up and pay a heavy price. The average person that is arrested for drunk driving had driven drunk 15-20 timnes before they were caught. Getting off on a small technical issue can go either way. For some it would be a lesson learned and they would avoid driving under the influence at all cost. Idiots would feel they could do it again because there is always a way to beat the system.
This .2 cents has been added by famaffir :) :) :)
Stay tuned for new boat "Family Affair Part II" should be on the water by Labor Day.
I have also seen ignorant SOBER people kill innocent drivers because they cant drive. Im not saying that its ok to drive drunk but you just cant single out someone that is at .08. .08 is legally drunk to the justice system. I bet there are alot of people on here that can blow a .08 not not even be phased by it. Then there are others that can blow a .06 and be out of control. I know damn well that when I am at .08 I am not even buzzed yet. I got pulled over in havasu and blew a .06 and I was sober. I did all of thier tests and passed. The thing about my situation was that I was respectful and polite to the officers. They pulled me over because I was doing boat wheelies. I guess they dont like that out there. Here in phx, I do that all the time and the officers wave at us. I wasnt cited but I did get an ass chewing from them.You live and learn.
Just dont drink and drive period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[laveydayz]

I don't know why you want to make this a fire vs police thing? It's not to me anyways, you probably heard a new one at the donut shop that you want to break out on here. :rolleyes:
You don't know me either or how I grew up. But for the record, just because you put on a gun and a badge and went into that area, I AM NOT IMPRESSED (maybe thankful, but still not impressed). For your 411, I grew up on the west side of LBC and am as white as they come. Many years I was the only white kid in my class and since I was never very fast, learned how to brawl. I can remember having to ride my bike down the middle of the street just so I would have reaction time before some tried to jump me. Drive by's were common and had a little girl that was in my second grade class killed and that was 35 yrs ago. You have no idea...I could show up in that area today and not get harrassed, so step off fool (that last line was suppose to be funny).
Back on topic. You admit yourself that there are bad cops. Maybe you don't get a comission, but some of you must feel that it'll make things look better to your boss if you have more arrest and convictions. Or is it a Capone thing? You don't always catch them doing the really bad stuff, but you always catch 'em. I dunno, you tell us...
__________________
I take everything I read here with a grain of salt...Hell, I don't believe half of the shit that I write!
Two totally different jobs....in my opinion fire & popo are both heroes for risking thier lives everytime they go to work to protect and help us......what about the female LAPD who is now paralyzed for the rest of her life for protecting the public....so why so much hate CBADDAD??

[SnoopJonnyJon]

Were you dead
Incidentally BOTH engineers here whom are both college grads both just failed it as well.. So that's 3 for 3 in my office. I actually had to make a cheat sheet just to see if they were doing it right or not both screwed up midway through.
Maybe that's our problem. Engineers can't do it :p When was hired at Case New Holland, they made me do all sorts of dumb aptitude tests. The alphabet-pattern type ones i only made it through maybe 1/3 before time ran out ... the number recognition i got through in about half the time, same with the mechanical proficiency one. I think I would suck at most of the FST's. My balance is pathetic... like to lean against a wall to put my boots on or I'll be stumbling all over the place... but get me on a sportbike and I can balance it on one tire no problem. I'm just not wired to be like these guys that can walk without falling over and actually know the alphabet. :220v: Good thing I have never had a drink in my life :p

[RiverDave]

How many COPS, Fireman, Families coming home from a river trip, have been killed by ignorant D.U.I drivers? I wish I knew an exact amount, but one is way too many.
Bottom line, those who drive drunk boat or car should be locked up and pay a heavy price. The average person that is arrested for drunk driving had driven drunk 15-20 timnes before they were caught. Getting off on a small technical issue can go either way. For some it would be a lesson learned and they would avoid driving under the influence at all cost. Idiots would feel they could do it again because there is always a way to beat the system.
This .2 cents has been added by famaffir :) :) :)
Stay tuned for new boat "Family Affair Part II" should be on the water by Labor Day.
I don't want to point out the obvious but I think your 180 degrees off the mark here.. Typically COPS AND FIREMEN are the most gross offenders of DUI.. I've partied with a shitload of cops over the years and still continue to do so. These guys are slurring something fierce 9 times out of 10 right before they head home. Firemen, well.. LOL Those guys can drink. Atleast the ones I know can, and they don't blink an eye about driving home either. ???
So what was your point again?
RD
RD

[Tom Brown]

So what was your point again?
Memory loss is typically associated with a BAC of 0.15 and higher. :idea:
It sounds like you're having a great weekend, Dave. http://www.***boat.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

[thom]

this thread is kiling me.. cops vs fire fighter .. theres bad peps in every industry.. but dont call them all bad.. but i will add cops seem to get a chip on there shoulder a little more than the average guy.. but they also deal with alot more than the average guy. either way glad to have both fire fighters and LEO around... your both appreciated and you both have LARGE egos at times..but we all get a large ego at times

[Moneypitt]

Boatcop, wouldn't every other one start with B and end with Z? A to Y would be a failing grade......Or would it? Without absolute instructions on where to start, you could fail everyone. A to Y or B to Z?????...........Like Burger king, having it YOUR WAY.........MP

[RUCAV]

I have not read all the replies, but an Officer can force a sample. Your refusal doesnt mean a whole lot. As for not consenting to a field sobriety test, does not mean there arent other symptoms available for the officer to document. Its a gamble.

[Tom Brown]

When would it ever be to someone's advantage to submit to a field sobriety test?

[ratso]

When would it ever be to someone's advantage to submit to a field sobriety test?
...when :rollside: :) you are sober???

[Wet Dream]

I was given a FST once and passed and the guy stil made me blow.....Oh never mind.
Topless, I've gotta give it to you. That was a funny line.

[Kilrtoy]

When would it ever be to someone's advantage to submit to a field sobriety test?
when your not drunk :rollside: