Battery chargers

[Jyruiz]

I have four batts on my boat, one is used for starting the boat and the other 3 are used for the stereo. They are all maintenance free batteries and I am looking for a charger that can charge all three batteries at the same time, I should tell you that the three batteries are connected to the 2nd position on the Perko switch. I currently have a Sears charger that has the option for maintenace free and will charge at 2 and 10 amps, but I don't know if that is enough to charge all the batteries over night, or if I should be even using that charager. I don't necessariley need something that mounts inside the boat, and was wondering if I need to charge each battery seperately even though the three batteries are wired together some how.
Any help would be appreciated.

[rivercrazy]

If those three batteries are wired in parallel (i.e there is a positive lead running from perko #2 to battery 1 and a jumper to batteries 2 and 3, they you can easily charge these batteries as a bank at the same time.
If you charge them with a 10 amp charger, each battery will charge at 3.33 amps each which is just fine. Lower amp charges over a longer period of time are better for the batteries versus a high amp short charge cycle.
Just make sure you charger is an automatic type that senses when the batteries are fully charged. That way the charger turns itself off when the batts are topped off. Using a non-automatic charger will cook the batteries if you overcharge em

[Jyruiz]

If those three batteries are wired in parallel (i.e there is a positive lead running from perko #2 to battery 1 and a jumper to batteries 2 and 3, they you can easily charge these batteries as a bank at the same time.
If you charge them with a 10 amp charger, each battery will charge at 3.33 amps each which is just fine. Lower amp charges over a longer period of time are better for the batteries versus a high amp short charge cycle.
Just make sure you charger is an automatic type that senses when the batteries are fully charged. That way the charger turns itself off when the batts are topped off. Using a non-automatic charger will cook the batteries if you overcharge em
I should have taken pictures of my batteries last time I was in Havi. I don't know if they are wired in Parallel, I know I can see two of the batteries wired positive to positive, but I have not fallowed the negative wires. And the only reason I see two wired + to + is because two of them are on the same side while the other two are on the other side of the engine.

[rivercrazy]

If the positive leads are wired together then they are in parallel. The two you mention are definately in parallel. If you charge one, the other will charge as well.
The negative leads are all daisy chained to all the batteries and to the engine block. not an indicator they are parallel or in series. (in series only for 6V batts)

[waxer]

They would have to be wired in Parallel, if not your stereo would be operating at 36 volts

[Jyruiz]

If the positive leads are wired together then they are in parallel. The two you mention are definately in parallel. If you charge one, the other will charge as well.
The negative leads are all daisy chained to all the batteries and to the engine block. not an indicator they are parallel or in series. (in series only for 6V batts)
I will have to see if the third battery is wired to the positive of the other two then, but would there be any reason why it would not be? The charger I have does stop once the batteries are charged so no problem there.

[Jyruiz]

They would have to be wired in Parallel, if not your stereo would be operating at 36 volts
Guess that settles that, thanks. Ok, so anybody have a recommendation for a good charger? I need to leave one in the Havi house and one here in CA. I am also wondering if the charger will stop charging if one battery is fully charged, but the others are not.

[CampbellCarl]

Juan
So that all 3 batt's get charged equally, I have always put the + cable from the charger on batt #1 and the - cable from the charger on batt #3. Forces the batt's to charge equally, or think of it this way....it's one BIG battery!
Carl

[Jyruiz]

Juan
So that all 3 batt's get charged equally, I have always put the + cable from the charger on batt #1 and the - cable from the charger on batt #3. Forces the batt's to charge equally, or think of it this way....it's one BIG battery!
Carl
Thanks Carl, I will give that a shot.

[phebus]

I have the same set-up as you, with three batteries for the accesories, and one starting battery. I use a Dual Pro two bank charger, and like it very much.
I plug it in at the end of the day, and when I come back the next day, the batteries are charged, and the thing has never failed me.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1753DSCN1490.JPG

[Jyruiz]

I have the same set-up as you, with three batteries for the accesories, and one starting battery. I use a Dual Pro two bank charger, and like it very much.
I plug it in at the end of the day, and when I come back the next day, the batteries are charged, and the thing has never failed me.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1753DSCN1490.JPG
That looks cool, but how do you wire it and what happens to the third battery since it is only a two banck charger?

[phebus]

Even though I have four batteries, I only have two banks. All batteries that are wired together in parrallel, count as one bank. You couldn't charge them seperately if you wanted to, as long as they are wired together. As long as you have a two position Perko, you have two banks. The charger I have puts out 15a per bank, so the three batteries on one bank receive 5a each, and the other single battery gets 15a.

[Jyruiz]

Even though I have four batteries, I only have two banks. All batteries that are wired together in parrallel, count as one bank. You couldn't charge them seperately if you wanted to, as long as they are wired together. As long as you have a two position Perko, you have two banks. The charger I have puts out 15a per bank, so the three batteries on one bank receive 5a each, and the other single battery gets 15a.
Is there an option to charge the batts at a lower amperage, for the bank that has the single battery? And does it also shut off when batts are fully charged? And how did you wire it? Sorry for all the questions.

[kcvega]

How about charger voltage? I've got an old ass Penny's charger and it only puts out 5.5 volts.

[Havasu Hangin']

Juan
So that all 3 batt's get charged equally, I have always put the + cable from the charger on batt #1 and the - cable from the charger on batt #3. Forces the batt's to charge equally, or think of it this way....it's one BIG battery!
Carl
It really doesn't matter where you put the leads...I don't think electrons don't care where you connect the positive and negative.

[beyondhelpin]

The bass fisherman use as much or more for their trolling motors as we use for our stereos. All of the bass boats have built in chargers. I have the same setup they do. I have pretty close to the same battery setup as you. Check Cabelas or Bass pro. They will have a set up that will fit your needs.
If you want to charge fully over night you will have to have a minimum 10 amps per bank for your stereo. 15 would be even better. Auto is the way to go. Never have to worry about boiling your batterys. Mine is auto and if I pull the boat out it gets plugged in. Dont unplug till she is going in. I trashed numerous batterys before I got this setup. The boat never fully charged them. When that happens frequently your batterys go to sh*t in a hurry.
Get a good charger and save money in the long run. Sorry to rant but this shit has cost me a lot of cash over the years.

[Jyruiz]

The bass fisherman use as much or more for their trolling motors as we use for our stereos. All of the bass boats have built in chargers. I have the same setup they do. I have pretty close to the same battery setup as you. Check Cabelas or Bass pro. They will have a set up that will fit your needs.
If you want to charge fully over night you will have to have a minimum 10 amps per bank for your stereo. 15 would be even better. Auto is the way to go. Never have to worry about boiling your batterys. Mine is auto and if I pull the boat out it gets plugged in. Dont unplug till she is going in. I trashed numerous batterys before I got this setup. The boat never fully charged them. When that happens frequently your batterys go to sh*t in a hurry.
Get a good charger and save money in the long run. Sorry to rant but this shit has cost me a lot of cash over the years.
So which charger do you have?

[beyondhelpin]

I have the Motorguide Max Pro 15 amps per bank x 3. Auto charge with maint cycle. Also has a remote indicator. Dont know if they are still available. You should only need a 2 bank.
Mainly look for auto with plenty of power per bank.

[Jyruiz]

Juan, what kind of batteries do you have? What manufacturer is what I mean?
I don't know, I know they are maintenance free batteries, but I do not know the name brand. I might be going to Havi next weekend, I will find out and let you know.

[beyondhelpin]

Not 100% sure but from his description the sound like lead acid. All my sugestions apply to lead acid batterys. What SB is really looking for is the type of battery.

[Jyruiz]

Just trying to make sure they're not Odysseys or something like that you're going to destroy with an improper charger for that application.
Do you know if there a dual purpose charger, might go with different batteries later on after this take a dump. And I am pretty sure the batts I have are not odysseys.

[beyondhelpin]

Yes they do. Up to 30 amps. Just noticed the 10 amp total. Thought it was 10 amps per bank. Sounded like ahell of a deal for $169. As a matter of fact I was removing the link as you were posting

[Beer-30]

I would get one of these or the DualPro version. I have this brand, but the "12", which is two banks of 6 amps. The "20" is two banks of 10, which I think would fit your needs perfectly. The two banks would just see two LARGE 12V batteries.
Or, you could run one side of the charger to 3 of them, and the other to the 4th battery. I doubt you could charge all 3 overnight, though. Depends on how run down they were when you parked it.
Fully automatic, winds down to trickle/maintenance when necessary. Won't ever harm your batts.
http://images.outdoorinteractive.net/mgen/461129_d.jpg?is=300,300,0xffffff&cvt=jpg
http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/product.asp?prod=461129

[Beer-30]

Or, there is this:
http://www.dualpro.com/new/images/se4_se4.jpg
http://www.dualpro.com/new/se4.html
But you don't even want to know what it costs.
Ok, you dragged it out of me, about $420.

[Jyruiz]

I'm almost positive that neither of those is capable of charging AGM batteries.
Are AGM batts the gel type?

[Beer-30]

The Marine Pro that I have says it is fine for Acid or AGM, just not gel.
The DualPro's are designed for their AGM batteries. I just read the online manual.
Pretty much every charger these days is fine for AGM. The gels are difficult customers, though.

[Beer-30]

No gel is gel.
AGM is Absorbed Gas Mat.
You can throw AGMs in your car, as we all have for years. Same with boats. If your alternator can charge it and not hurt it, neither will a regular battery charger.
Either of these are OK with AGM, and are fully automatic to not hurt your batts.

[Jyruiz]

So much to know about batteries, I guess I have to learn more about the different batts before I can purchase a charger. I am the type that always thinks for the future, so that kind of makes it even harder I guess.

[Beer-30]

So much to know about batteries, I guess I have to learn more about the different batts before I can purchase a charger. I am the type that always thinks for the future, so that kind of makes it even harder I guess.
Not really. If you have ones that say "maintenance free", then they are most highly likely acid-filled. If they say AGM on them, they are just that.
I have not ever known a gel batt to say maint free, and it for sure would not say AGM.
So, if you have flooded batts (acid) or AGM (Optima and the like) you are just fine with whatever of these chargers you pick. I have the MarinePro 12 on my two (currently) Optima blue-tops and they don't even get warm. I kept a volt gauge on them to test the charger and it did exactly what it said it would. Either the MarinePro or the DualSE would be an excellent pick for you. Just decide how many banks you want. Two, fairly slowly. Or, four real fast.

[Froggystyle]

One thing about charging batteries is that you want to be close to your max charge rate, but not above. Batteries don't like to be trickle charged. A good, strong charge will actually knock some of the coating off of each cell when it hits, and will "refresh" the battery every time you do it. It essentially cooks off the corrosion that occurs between the electrolyte and the lead. A good charge will keep your batteries a lot healthier for a lot longer. My Trojans were recommended to never charge at less than 15 amps per. So, we charge the stereo bank at 40 amps and the single 27 at 20 amps.
It has worked for me very well.
The negative of #3 and positive of #1 doesn't matter when you are running in parallel but the batteries are close together. When it does matter a LOT is if you are running in parallel but the batteries have a long lead between them... like on different sides of the boat for example. In that case, you will always get better matched performance by going positive to one and negative to the other. You will get a more even charge and both batteries will stay matched better for their life span. Same goes for the load. You should always have the load negative come off of one and the positive come off of the other. Electricity will choose the path of least resistance, and if the load goes into one battery with the other along for the ride, you will wear out the first battery way quicker. Additionally, when charging the bank, the first battery will charge faster and show the charger that it is all full, which it is. The battery behind it isn't though.
I did not hear this from an old wife either. An electrical engineer actually.

[rivercrazy]

If the wire run is say less than 10' and the battery cable is of sufficient gauge, its not going to make any material difference. (If the batteries are the same age and condition)

[Beer-30]

Ok, guys.
The poor kid asked about battery CHARGERS, not wire lengths.

[Jyruiz]

I would get one of these or the DualPro version. I have this brand, but the "12", which is two banks of 6 amps. The "20" is two banks of 10, which I think would fit your needs perfectly. The two banks would just see two LARGE 12V batteries.
Or, you could run one side of the charger to 3 of them, and the other to the 4th battery. I doubt you could charge all 3 overnight, though. Depends on how run down they were when you parked it.
Fully automatic, winds down to trickle/maintenance when necessary. Won't ever harm your batts.
http://images.outdoorinteractive.net/mgen/461129_d.jpg?is=300,300,0xffffff&cvt=jpg
http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/product.asp?prod=461129
Would this charger also work with Odessey batteries?

[Jyruiz]

Forget the question, I just looked them up and they are AGM.

[Beer-30]

I like the ProSport(s) because they give you the option (one-time). There is a small, looped wire at the base of the thing. If you have Gel batts, you clip this wire and it puts it into Gel charging mode. Other than that, it is for ACID (whether AGM or flooded) :)

[Jyruiz]

I like the ProSport(s) because they give you the option (one-time). There is a small, looped wire at the base of the thing. If you have Gel batts, you clip this wire and it puts it into Gel charging mode. Other than that, it is for ACID (whether AGM or flooded) :)
I want the stereo batteries to get a full charge over night, so how would I wire the 2 bank charger for 3 batteries?

[It's all Good]

Here is a link to the manufacturer of Odyssey's new charger, they also OEM the Sears Die-Hard line:
Schumacher Electric (http://www.batterychargers.com/itemlist.cfm?cid=2)

[Beer-30]

The thing I don't like about the ProMariner chargers is that you must cut a jumper to select whether you are going to be charging lead-acid or AGM type batteries. With the 2 bank ProMariner you can't mix battery types.
Partially right. The ProSport 12, 20, and other models have a one-time jumper for GEL only. Otherwise, it is ready for Flooded or AGM.

[Beer-30]

I want the stereo batteries to get a full charge over night, so how would I wire the 2 bank charger for 3 batteries?
Well, lets make it easy and say, for example sake, that you have three on one side of the boat, and one on the other.
One bank of a two bank charger would go to ANY of the three that are connected together.
The other bank would go to the other side of the boat, the solo batt. The two banks are completely isolated and will never connect the two together. Even when plugged in, each bank is it's own entity.
Now, a simpler method with alot less wiring, is to connect at a junction point. If there is an electric solenoid that connects the three batts to the one batt during ignition operation; that would be an easy point to attach to both "banks". Just run a ground from each "bank" to that point also and connect accordingly.

[It's all Good]

Partially right. The ProSport 12, 20, and other models have a one-time jumper for GEL only. Otherwise, it is ready for Flooded or AGM.
Thanks for that info. Been a while since I read the manual.

[phebus]

Well, lets make it easy and say, for example sake, that you have three on one side of the boat, and one on the other.
One bank of a two bank charger would go to ANY of the three that are connected together.
The other bank would go to the other side of the boat, the solo batt. The two banks are completely isolated and will never connect the two together. Even when plugged in, each bank is it's own entity.
Not neccesarily so. If the Perko is left in the "All" position, all the batteries would share the output from the charger. To keep the batteries isolated, the perko can't be in the all position, and best yet, should be in the off position while charging.

[Jyruiz]

Thanks for answering all my question guys, but to make it easy on myself, I think I will just go with this CHARGER (http://www.batterychargers.com/details.cfm?prodid=SC%2D6000A&catid=2) and just connect it every time I am going to use it. The lone battery on Perko #1 switch really never needs the charge, it is the other three that power the system in the boat that does.

[Beer-30]

Thanks for answering all my question guys, but to make it easy on myself, I think I will just go with this CHARGER (http://www.batterychargers.com/details.cfm?prodid=SC%2D6000A&catid=2) and just connect it every time I am going to use it. The lone battery on Perko #1 switch really never needs the charge, it is the other three that power the system in the boat that does.
That's fine, but put the switch on ALL when you connect the charger. Not necessarily for overnight turn-around, but during long spells of no use. A sitting battery, AGM or Flooded will "sulfate" with no charge going to it. The two amp portion should maintain all of the batteries nicely until next use. You will get alot more mileage out of all of your batteries if they are "maintained". Just sitting kills them.

[Jyruiz]

That's fine, but put the switch on ALL when you connect the charger. Not necessarily for overnight turn-around, but during long spells of no use. A sitting battery, AGM or Flooded will "sulfate" with no charge going to it. The two amp portion should maintain all of the batteries nicely until next use. You will get alot more mileage out of all of your batteries if they are "maintained". Just sitting kills them.
Thanks, will do.

[acatitude]

geez, Im so confused now, I think i'm just going to throw away my stereo...:D

[riverroyal]

so what do I need for 2 batteries,optima gel.Im also so shopping:D

[Misogynist]

They would have to be wired in Parallel, if not your stereo would be operating at 36 volts
I was just going to say that. But I think he has them on different circuits. I'm guessing he was wondering if the charger would charge all three batteries at once. The answer........ YES... but slower. If you have maintenance free batteries they charge better at a lower rate. So everything should be fine. Just give yourself enough time to make sure they are fully charged. Overnight may NOT be enough time.

[Misogynist]

That's fine, but put the switch on ALL when you connect the charger. Not necessarily for overnight turn-around, but during long spells of no use. A sitting battery, AGM or Flooded will "sulfate" with no charge going to it. The two amp portion should maintain all of the batteries nicely until next use. You will get alot more mileage out of all of your batteries if they are "maintained". Just sitting kills them.
Two amps may cook the batteries if left on all the time. I suggest getting a battery "maintainer" at an auto parts store or Sears. They only put out 1.5 amps max and then lower down to only a few milliamps once the batteries are charged. Batteries store energy chemically. A fully charged battery has plates of lead peroxide.... when a current flows, an electron is released from the lead peroxide and it converts to lead sulfate. If the battery is allowed to stay in a discharged condition for a long period of time, the sulfate "crystalizes" and cannot be converted back into lead peroxide. That is why it is important to store batteries fully charged. Eventually small amounts of lead sulfate crystalize over time and when the battery charges they fall off the grid and fall to the bottom of the battery case and blacken the electrolyte.

[Beer-30]

Two amps may cook the batteries if left on all the time. I suggest getting a battery "maintainer" at an auto parts store or Sears. They only put out 1.5 amps max and then lower down to only a few milliamps once the batteries are charged. Batteries store energy chemically. A fully charged battery has plates of lead peroxide.... when a current flows, an electron is released from the lead peroxide and it converts to lead sulfate. If the battery is allowed to stay in a discharged condition for a long period of time, the sulfate "crystalizes" and cannot be converted back into lead peroxide. That is why it is important to store batteries fully charged. Eventually small amounts of lead sulfate crystalize over time and when the battery charges they fall off the grid and fall to the bottom of the battery case and blacken the electrolyte.
Exactly. At the beginning of this thread, someone wanted to use a regular ol' clamp on battery charger for all of the batteries.
I run the ProMariner 120. 2X 6amp, isolated. But, during the initial charge, it senses which "channel" has the most draw (least charged) and puts more amperage to that side. Then it evens out. Ultimately, it goes to "maintenance" mode, dropping from 14.3v down to 13.0, and varying between 500ma, and 1.5a. Perfectly safe and keeps the sulfating away.