Havasu City Council Meeting

[Magic34]

Anyone go to that?
Here is what was said in the AZ Republic online
Lake Havasu OKs ordinance targeting rowdy boaters
Associated Press
Jul. 12, 2006 02:37 PM
LAKE HAVASU CITY - Rowdy boaters beware: Lake Havasu City has a tough new public conduct law that may land offenders in jail.
The City Council passed the new ordinance Tuesday after spirited presentations from many opposed to the new law, including the Chamber of Commerce, which worried that tourists will be scared away.
The law makes its a misdemeanor to be unreasonably loud, seriously disruptive, use obscene language or engage in indecent exposure anywhere in the city. Violators can be sent to jail for six months and levied a $2,50 fine.
But the law is aimed primarily at boaters and revelers along the channel at Lake Havasu City. The area becomes jammed on holiday weekends, and police sought the beefed-up laws to help them control crowds that sometimes become unruly.

[No Name]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/3087LakeHavasu04.jpg

[Liquid Courage]

That is a pretty vague law! I can see that one going to the supreme court on apeal if the law isn't careful out there.

[UncleLarry]

Not much to say.. Police wanted a way to get rid of those that are way rowdy, drunk or screaming.... So it was easily passed even thro many showed up in opposition of it.
Bottom line is if are way out of control and even if no one complains the LE can now detain you. Thanks the key to this ordinance - it gives the LE power to arrest even if no complaint is made.

[Magic34]

I dont really have a problem with all of that at all.
All I really need to know is if I can run my generator and A/C and go to sleep in my cabin where I cant bother anyone. :crossx:

[UncleLarry]

I guess thats ok as long as you dont walk in your sleep - start one hellava of a party and then you and your closest 200 friends (who too walk in their sleep) get all crazy and loud and drunk....

[Ziggy]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/3087LakeHavasu04.jpg
Exactly......it was already illegal to do that......... :rolleyes: Did anyone tell them to pull their heads out??
.
But then again, so is crossing the border thru fences and tunnels :mad:

[Liquid Courage]

I think it could be actually a good thing. I'm sick of seeing the freakin' loosers out there causing trouble, fighting, being out of control and basically screwing it up for people that just want to chill, have a few drinks and enjoy the weather with friends. As long as LE uses the law as a tool and not take advantage of it then all will be well.

[CMATT21]

In San diego they are trying to pull down a cross at war memorial. In our goverment buildings they attempt to remove anything with GOD in it. You can still burn a UNITED STATES FLAG... Blah, Blah, BLah. But in Havasu, A get away from it all and have a good time spot. You can't swear, dance, and get buzzed. I guess I've found Pleasentville. My fear as always is not that the fricking idoits get busted but hard working, regular people just letting loose. We shall see.............. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Keith E. Sayre]

So what does that really mean, does a Texan visiting the channel and sees
his first set of pasties and lets out a big Texas "yee haw" holler get arrested
now?
At what point will the city council state it as THEY want it, "having fun in the
channel will offend someone so you'll be arrested. Smiling will not be tolerated.
What kind of idiotic message are we sending to the tourists that support this
entire town? I'll say it again, if we drive away the boaters this town will be
bankrupt tonight. Not tommorrow, tonight. Anyone stupid enough to believe
that the old retired geezers support this town is way confused, dangerously ignorant or isn't dealing with reality. Have a nice day but don't smile in the
channel.
Keith Sayre
Conquest Boats

[4day!!]

When are they gonna pass a law that will allow us to kick the sh!t out of these low life sh!tbags (locals or not) that are stealing and vandalizing our stuff? I dont know where that just came :rolleyes:

[funkybunchjr]

So what does that really mean, does a Texan visiting the channel and sees
his first set of pasties and lets out a big Texas "yee haw" holler get arrested
now?
Hey, I resemble that :)

[RiverDave]

Dancing is now illegal? Loud music? So much for the wakeboard boats with the tower speakers eh?
RD

[shueman]

So what does that really mean, does a Texan visiting the channel and sees his first set of pasties and lets out a big Texas "yee haw" holler get arrested now?
...pretty simple to me.....keep your top on in the channel..... :rolleyes:
If you prefer to wear pasties, take it elsewhere on the lake or river.
What's so difficult about that...??

[Tom Brown]

Dancing is now illegal?
Perhaps it will make it a little easier to swallow knowing that water balloons are also illegal.

[Magic34]

Dancing is now illegal? Loud music? So much for the wakeboard boats with the tower speakers eh?
RD
I thought you were in Mexico, not Canada.

[Boatcop]

Take away the skin show and the dirt bags on the shore will also leave.
Who wants to watch a bunch of people playing on the beach, building sand castles with their kids and dogs and having fun? where's the excitement in that? Damn those people for wanting to have somewhere they can bring the kids.
We all know that only boats with drunks and strippers spend money, anyway. And anything but adult entertainment in public places will cause the whole city to dry up and blow away.
Lak Havasu City Ghost Town!
Has a nice ring to it, huh?

[UncleLarry]

No one said anything about loud music
No one said anything about pasties
No one said anything about dancing...
What was said if now if YOU are being a friggen complete ass the LE can arrest you even if no one makes a complaint and NO we never did have that law on the books...
Wow..

[jbtrailerjim]

I'm all for them cracking down on the idiots. A lot of people on here complained about wanting the city to crack down on the people who, break the laws, trash the channel, and disrespect the city. Now they are doing something about it and now all I read is people frickin whinning about the cops cracking down and having zero tolerence for law breakers.
It's real simple. Obey the laws and you should'nt have any problems out there.

[shueman]

...It's real simple. Obey the laws and you should'nt have any problems out there.
Totally agree.... :cool:

[2Driver]

expressed it well in another thread about getting ticketed for dancing.
I figure there is going to be some extreme measures and judgment errors as town officials attempt to regain the town from out past where it should not have gone in the first place.
Personally I'd like to see a sensible and comprehensive plan for the town's overall erosion in quality of life.It seems they really need to get their heads out of the weeds and get some bigger thinkers in there.

[Kilrtoy]

Everyone is missing the point here.
They are taking away a civil right of ours....PEDIOD.
The police will not WILL NOT CRACK down on the people they should, they will crack down on people like YOU, that is right YOU and me....
Yes this town is setting it self up for a major lawsuit and a major pay out....

[ROZ]

All I have to say is that Vegas tried to be kid friendly and lost revenue... Now that it's sin city again, they're building and renovating hotels and condos...
I'm not saying I oppose the law taking care of the riffraff, but the leos there will be hastling EVERYONE and not EVERYONE is going to like it.. Hopefully those who are the problem will either tone it down or leave...
As far as making swearing illegal, that can be taken to the supreme court...

[Hotcobra270]

Where do you guys think this will end? will this extend to the sandbar, steamboat and coppercanyon? will I have to be hidden in a cove in order to blast my stereo with other boaters that are enjoying the music?
I understand cracking down on the idiots that create problems for others but if nobody is complaning and or getting hurt what does it matter?

[Mandelon]

Where do you guys think this will end? will this extend to the sandbar, steamboat and coppercanyon? will I have to be hidden in a cove in order to blast my stereo with other boaters that are enjoying the music?
I understand cracking down on the idiots that create problems for others but if nobody is complaning and or getting hurt what does it matter?
Those areas are not within city limits. So LHPD won't be out there. I believe they only have jurisdiction in the channel and in Thompson bay....

[TCHB]

So what does that really mean, does a Texan visiting the channel and sees
his first set of pasties and lets out a big Texas "yee haw" holler get arrested
now?
At what point will the city council state it as THEY want it, "having fun in the
channel will offend someone so you'll be arrested. Smiling will not be tolerated.
What kind of idiotic message are we sending to the tourists that support this
entire town? I'll say it again, if we drive away the boaters this town will be
bankrupt tonight. Not tommorrow, tonight. Anyone stupid enough to believe
that the old retired geezers support this town is way confused, dangerously ignorant or isn't dealing with reality. Have a nice day but don't smile in the
channel.
Keith Sayre
Conquest Boats
Well said Keith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TCHB]

Well said Keith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Captain Dan]

Where do you guys think this will end? will this extend to the sandbar, steamboat and coppercanyon? will I have to be hidden in a cove in order to blast my stereo with other boaters that are enjoying the music?
I understand cracking down on the idiots that create problems for others but if nobody is complaning and or getting hurt what does it matter?
As far as stereos in the channel are concerned you should be in a private cove somewhere to blast your music, maybe everyone around you doesn't share your taste in music. That's just common courtesy.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Where do you guys think this will end? will this extend to the sandbar, steamboat and coppercanyon?
This is a city ordinance therefore it will not be enforced at the Sandbar, Steamboat or Copper Canyon as all three are outside of the city limits. That does not prevent the municpalities that enforce laws in those areas from enacting a similar ordinance.

[ThongMagnet]

"You don't have to be swearing to be a public nuissance, but it will bring attention to people who are loudly using profanity."
And easier to to spot the drunks.
Drunks are no longer welcome in the channel. Fine some other place to be stupid :)

[2Driver]

Look, anytime a company, business or town council for that matter attempts to throw the pendulum in the opposite direction to get something quickly accomplished there will be errors in judgment and process. This thing will settle itself out without anyone's rights being violated - too much :rolleyes: They are going to extremes because it gotten to extremes.
Bottom line is none of us wants more knifings, gang activity, fights, wading in trash and belligerent human waste in the channel parked next to us. Unfortunately we are dealing with a city council that like most are corporate fall-out "know littles" without the ability to make a logical decision and properly address issues at the core. I say live with it for a while and let it chase the trash away and things might just get better for all of us.

[LHC30Victory]

Like some others here have said - that ord is too vaguely written. I will admit I have not seen a lot of enforcement misques in the channel but if half of what has been said about bone headed authority misuse by LHCPD, then the vagueness of this ord is compounded. For instance, I have not seen LHCPD take on the "gangster" type element that has been a real threat to safety and quality of life, so will this change that?
Only good leadership and a firm collective understanding of what is illegal will do.

[lalhc]

It's a shame that the channel has become so out of control, and it's not only weekends and holidays anymore. I can't even take my kids through the channel w/out worrying about what they're going to see and what they're going to hear. I'm not attempting to shelter my boys. It's just not right for 8 year olds to see women flashing and others cursing like there's no tomorrow.

[Kilrtoy]

They are not taking any civil rights away, kindergarten cop.
They will not crack down on people like me. The ordinances do not create any new laws, they allow better enforcment of current laws.
The only way the ACLU will get involved is if it becomes a race issue or the cops bust a 3 time convicted child molestor - because he is "unfairly" persecuted for a crime he paid his debt to society for and was innocent anyway.
Cheese and rice you people a just slightly over reacting. I say bring it on!!! What, the cops are really going to bust me for playing the oldies station, drinking gatorade and for my wife wearing board shorts? I know, they are going to bust me for having my registration sticker being closer than 3 inches to the CF numbers!!!
well lets see here, you already stated that you DONT COME HERE, so you have no clue.. The difference being I do live and I see what goes on every weekend and on week days. I see how people are treated now and this is only gonna make life worse for the hard working people who enjoy this town.....
The people that need to be dealt with , arent even looked at in this town. It is the people that come here with families that will suffer.
There are bigger issues in this town than people enjoying themselves in the channel.
How many dope cops do they have in this town and that is the biggest problem, yet they utilize all of there resources to crack down on mom dancing in a parked boat.....
I can go on and on that.
Sorry dancing in public on the boat that is parked would fall somewhere under civil rights.

[Kilrtoy]

Like some others here have said - that ord is too vaguely written. I will admit I have not seen a lot of enforcement misques in the channel but if half of what has been said about bone headed authority misuse by LHCPD, then the vagueness of this ord is compounded. For instance, I have not seen LHCPD take on the "gangster" type element that has been a real threat to safety and quality of life, so will this change that?
Only good leadership and a firm collective understanding of what is illegal will do.
They dont do it now, so why would they start

[Kilrtoy]

It's a shame that the channel has become so out of control, and it's not only weekends and holidays anymore. I can't even take my kids through the channel w/out worrying about what they're going to see and what they're going to hear. I'm not attempting to shelter my boys. It's just not right for 8 year olds to see women flashing and others cursing like there's no tomorrow.
you have to be kidding...
The cursing I agree, but that is a society issue, that occurs everywhere.
as far as the rest of the stuff.
I saw a girl flash for the first time this year this weekend(it is JULY) and she was arrested on the spot. I have yet to miss a weekend on the water and I spend alot of time in the channel with my two kids and i fail to see any of this stuff

[INSman]

I dont really have a problem with all of that at all.
All I really need to know is if I can run my generator and A/C and go to sleep in my cabin where I cant bother anyone. :crossx:
pulleaseeeee...
your days are numbered mister, with that rowdy ass crew you run with and continuously attract :220v:

[INSman]

you have to be kidding...
The cursing I agree, but that is a society issue, that occurs everywhere.
as far as the rest of the stuff.
I saw a girl flash for the first time this year this weekend(it is JULY) and she was arrested on the spot. I have yet to miss a weekend on the water and I spend alot of time in the channel with my two kids and i fail to see any of this stuff
I miss it all too, but I am guessing that it is probably because I am always driving and not having time to take in and enjoy the sights :220v:

[mbrown2]

Loud music? So much for the wakeboard boats with the tower speakers eh?
RD
Too late bro they shut me down two years ago at the Xmas parade...:)

[bignet]

So what does that really mean, does a Texan visiting the channel and sees
his first set of pasties and lets out a big Texas "yee haw" holler get arrested
now?
At what point will the city council state it as THEY want it, "having fun in the
channel will offend someone so you'll be arrested. Smiling will not be tolerated.
What kind of idiotic message are we sending to the tourists that support this
entire town? I'll say it again, if we drive away the boaters this town will be
bankrupt tonight. Not tommorrow, tonight. Anyone stupid enough to believe
that the old retired geezers support this town is way confused, dangerously ignorant or isn't dealing with reality. Have a nice day but don't smile in the
channel.
Keith Sayre
Conquest Boats
That is the best response of the day...and let's not forget that this law is sooooooo vague, that any LE that has a hair up his ass and pissed cuz he drew duty that weekend, can arrest your ass if he damn well pleases, and there ain't sh!t you can do about it, cuz there isn't a judge that'll go against him/her. :mad: :mad: Well funs over...... :cry:
bignet

[shueman]

This is a city ordinance therefore it will not be enforced at the Sandbar, Steamboat or Copper Canyon as all three are outside of the city limits. That does not prevent the municpalities that enforce laws in those areas from enacting a similar ordinance.
LHC has the parks and the channel; that's it.
There's 10-12 other government agencies that have jurisdiction over the rest of the lake, shoreline, and the river north....primarily the Cali & AZ Sheriff's and the Coast Guard.....no municpalities.... :rolleyes:

[shueman]

Look, anytime a company, business or town council for that matter attempts to throw the pendulum in the opposite direction to get something quickly accomplished there will be errors in judgment and process. This thing will settle itself out without anyone's rights being violated - too much :rolleyes: They are going to extremes because it gotten to extremes.
Bottom line is none of us wants more knifings, gang activity, fights, wading in trash and belligerent human waste in the channel parked next to us. Unfortunately we are dealing with a city council that like most are corporate fall-out "know littles" without the ability to make a logical decision and properly address issues at the core. I say live with it for a while and let it chase the trash away and things might just get better for all of us.
Well said... :cool:

[bignet]

That's exactly what law enforcement needs, more laws designed to allow them to arrest you for no reason at all. :rolleyes: Disruptive? My kids are disruptive at times, I guess I better carry bail money.
Stupid is as stupid does. The ironic part is, I'll complain the loudest and I'll be the last person on the planet actually arrested for any of these violations.
You better knock on wood Shockwave! :p
bignet

[kanedog]

the channel is crazy. naked people dancing on boats, grandmothers walking their grandkids in the 115 degree heat running for their lives because of the public sex acts, drunks floundering around, tweakers tweaking by the dog park!!!!!gambling across the lake, loud music, boats over 36' in the channel................run for your lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ziggy]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/3087LakeHavasu04.jpg
The ordinances are already in place, they need to enforce them vigorously and equally but not by subjective opinion that these new 'rules' will allow.
I'm 100% for keeping it within the laws, I don't really need/want to see flashing where the general public has access or petty arguements between people......we're all there to enjoy the lake and what recreation it offers.....
.
.
And if loud music is disallowed what will the Ad-Boat biz owner have to attract attn.......not that I particularly like it myself but the new deal has effects on others beside us friendly boaters.

[Kilrtoy]

Really....cops want to arrest people for no reason at all? I don't get how people think this. usually, people are doing something that the cops would like to arrest them for or atleast question them. people who have had trouble with the law, act a certain way when the law is present that the PoPo pickup on. They notice when people get uneasy when they are around and they want to know why they are now uneasy and look for reasons to question them. I have 3 inlaws that are Anaheim PD and I talk with them about how certain people act funny around cops and how they pick up on it...and they say it is so obvious to them. And, most of the time, there is something the popo finds to warant their suspicions. Ktoy knows...he sees how the school kids stop passing notes and shooting spit wads when he pulls up on his "motor."
And KToy, you are quite funny. Now that we all know you are not 830.3049848f9dodf....your point of view as a cop is worthless. :D Seriously, you are the only cop(so far) who has a problem with this as another well respected LOCAL PoPo (Alan) seems to back this ordinance. But then, Alan is not is not the attention wh0re that you are. I'd like to see other cops views on this, not just the kindergarten cop - who sells porn out of the garage(nice family business). Maybe we can see more photos of your wife pointing your service revolver at the camera - that seem to be a big hit with other cops on here as well - while we are the subject of appropriate behavior. I don't mean to come across as flaming you so much but more to show your credibility when it comes to judgement and appropriate behavior, especially as an officer of the law. I know...the line forms here for haters. :rolleyes:
Oh, and you live there?...you fockin newbie!! You act like some 20 year veteran of Havasu. I have spent more time in Havasu before I was 10 than you have and you live there. Yah, I don't come there anymore, for exactly the reason the city council created this new ordinance. I have been avoiding Havasu longer than you have been a boat owner. I am sure there are other serious issues, but this is not about dancing in a boat -that is more of the colateral consequences. As Alan said...get rid of the skin shows, and you get rid of the dirt bags causing most of the problems. I think cleaning up the area around London Bridge....the #2 tourist attraction in the state and major source of revenue for the city...is quite a high priority. I think the city council would love to have people like me and my family come to havasu. Not a whole lot of drama created by my family building sand castles and listening to oldies and the Cedarmont Kids (christian kids music) that you can only hear when you are in the boat. My boat is a part of Havasu history...a 20 1/2 Campbell River Cruiser. Nobody will complain about us keeping to ourselves and saying that Havasu needs to get rid of the people that don't know how to party. However, they might complain about a short hairy ugly midget with a lazy eye and a farmer tan. :D
lets get some thing straight it is lunch ticket laundering, spit wads are so 70's.
As far as tourist, what does this city do to attract them?please point me to the websites they have and that are linked to attract tourist...
Hell the realtors do more campaigning than the city does. Come on out and spend the day in the channel with this newbie and you will understand my point of view. i also dont think it is fair to compare parker to havasu. the same thing goes on down there that goes on up here, yet there is no complaining about what goes on down there.

[moneypit]

What a Joke. These law makers are out of control.Sounds like they have been on Meth or they are suffering from heat stroke. Since that can't find a legitmate reason to jail or cite people under the current law, they stream up laws that only have a front end and no back end. An open law like this is an infraction against anyone to carry out the right as a person who is having a good time. Sure people can get loud and be abnoxious to others but it doesn't make sense if they are NOT breaking any laws.
I can hear the cops minds spinning. "Oh my god, those people are having to good of a time, but I cant do anything about it".
It's amazing to me that the law can't flip through their book to find a current code that some of these "undesirables" are crossing. This just proves that Havasu management has no clue as to what they are doing or what it is they really want.
1. Mooring rules.
2. Noise rules.
3. Pull over grandma and grandpa and site someone whos standing behind the gate of the pontoon.
They don't want it in their backyard, so they will make up their own rules. I've seen alot of hollywood movies like this where people show up at a quiet where they have all their own rules.
Don't get me wrong. I can't stand loud and obnoxious people but they have the right to be loud and obnoxious if they aren't breaking the law. I just pull anchor and move on.
If the city of Havasu want to clean up the channel, they need to enforce the laws that are already in place. Hell, stop people from parking in the channel or build a wall along the channel. I dunno. These people's heads are spinning.

[Magic34]

Just wanted to add what a local LE on Lake Pleasant here in Phoenix had to say about some stuff.
I posted this before but the thread disappeared....
The wife and I were having a mellow day on Pleasant (Monday July 3). We went out around 1 PM and the lake was dead. We rolled into Humbug to anchor by ourselves, and there were about 5-6 boats of the "party" crowd in there. Also a houseboat was rented out with a DJ and music loud enough to hear throughout the entire cove, over 300 yards away, you could hear it word for word.
Now, none of that is a problem in my book. We sat in floating shairs for about 3 hours. I was tired as hell from the race weekend and didn't even want to go to the lake, but the wife insisted.
Anyways, a LE boat with 1 officer was in the cove as well with it pulled on the rocky shore. He was watching the whole cove with most of his attention on the "party" scene.
On his way out, he stopped to chat with us for about 25 minutes. Super nice guy as well.
He told us that their problem was with the "party" crowd and what is associated with it. He said that the ***boaters, cruisers, and family groups are pretty much trouble free. It is the huge party crowd where the issues are.
He was looking with binoculars for the longest time and we asked what he was looking for. He was looking for naked women. He told us that most of the trouble out there stems from s chick being naked, and maybe her boyfirend getting pissed because he is drunk or something and maybe another guy was hitting on her and a fight breaks out.
On Lake Pleasant, if you are cited for being naked, or no top on, it is a $2500 (I think, maybe $1500) fine and you are not allowed on the lake for 2 years.
He said pasties and thongs are fine, but the second someone is considered "naked" than it is off the lake and fines in hand.
He also said he used to work Havasu about 5 years ago, and when he was there, this is what they were after as well.
LE does remember boats if you are regulars too and they get a norm for what your behavior. The LE in the above story told us that he has seen us out there over the past year and knows that he doesn't really need to worry about us. I thought that was cool that he noticed stuff like that.
To me it makes sense about the trash coming to look at chicks, but then again, I am not mixed into that so I would say I am not as informed as others may be with this.
All I know is that I try to stay out of trouble and go by what the law says. I dont drink out there or do anything that I guess would be considered lewd behavior. I cant afford to have my image tarnished by legal BS in my business, so I try to live a pretty clean life. Am I better than anyone else? NO, but this is just my program for my many reasons and I still have a great time at the lake.
I go to Havasu because something about a city right on the water is great to me. I like being able to take the boat to lunch in the channel or even shopping. If there were more places within a few hours drive, I'd go there too.

[Magic34]

One more thing.... I should be living in Vegas right now, but I am fighting it very hard because I dont want to raise my daughter there.
Something about 4 chicks in thongs on the back of a taxi sounds great as the young single guy, but raising a 2 year old daughter, or any age child... I just dont want them to see that every day or even once a month and all that is associated with it.
With this thought, I understand what they are trying to do in the channel, but by the split responses, maybe they are just doing it in a "non-political" way.

[Dan Lorenze]

I cruised through the channel a couple of weeks ago, kids were throwing rocks at boats (mine) I saw a "dookie" floating by, smelled like carbon monoxide and I'm sure the water had just a few gallons of urine in there.. I'm still amazed that some of you with such beatiful boats just sit there all day long in that S-hole of a place. I don't understand the attraction to the channel other than it being a great place for a bachelor party to get drunk and try to start trouble.. The channel reminds me of a tailgate party at a Raider game...

[SoCalSouthpaw]

It's a shame that the channel has become so out of control, and it's not only weekends and holidays anymore. I can't even take my kids through the channel w/out worrying about what they're going to see and what they're going to hear. I'm not attempting to shelter my boys. It's just not right for 8 year olds to see women flashing and others cursing like there's no tomorrow.
Ya know, I dont have kids (yet). So, I am going to voice my opinion based on some common sense more than parenting knowledge. With that said, dont take offense - as I am not passing judgement on yours, or any parents, parenting skills. Ok, if I had an 8 year old, I would be more concerned about the message they may get from seeing all the beer bonging, and drinking that is going on rather than them seeing skin, or hearing swearing. I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.

[SoCalSouthpaw]

well lets see here, you already stated that you DONT COME HERE, so you have no clue.. The difference being I do live and I see what goes on every weekend and on week days. I see how people are treated now and this is only gonna make life worse for the hard working people who enjoy this town.....
The people that need to be dealt with , arent even looked at in this town. It is the people that come here with families that will suffer.
There are bigger issues in this town than people enjoying themselves in the channel.
How many dope cops do they have in this town and that is the biggest problem, yet they utilize all of there resources to crack down on mom dancing in a parked boat.....
I can go on and on that.
Sorry dancing in public on the boat that is parked would fall somewhere under civil rights.
Yeah but, Holy Moly's immediate and extended families net worth is over 100 mill. as he puts it. Do you think he may have bought himself a clue? I hear they can be on sale from time to time..... :p

[SoCalSouthpaw]

I miss it all too, but I am guessing that it is probably because I am always driving and not having time to take in and enjoy the sights :220v:
I kidnapped, and have hostage, your Kool-aide guy on your sig INSman. Look for him in my upcoming Avatar!!!! :D He is being held for a ransom.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I cruised through the channel a couple of weeks ago, <snip> smelled like carbon monoxide
Uhhh, carbon monoxide is odorless. As such there is no smell associated with it.

[Huckleberry]

I'm a firm believer in giving the cops the tools they need to get the job done. But...As Kilr said, they already have the necessary tools(laws) they need. They just seem to go after the tourists instead of the shitbag tweakers and resident thugs that live there. I'm not saying there aren't tourists who deserve full service from the city, but they are the exception rather than the rule I think.
When we go to the lake with our 13-year old daughter we often pull up in the channel at the end of the day. If we end up beaching in the area of problem idiots, we simply back off the beach and move to a quieter area. Believe it or not, they still exist in the channel!

[catman-do]

I dont mind if they enforce a ilttle better. However I do agree that they need to concentrate more on the tweekers out there doing damage to the tourists that support the city. If it goes too far to one extreme or another people will leave. If it gets too out of control the good element will leave for lack of good conduct being held, on the other hand if they crack down too much then mostly everyone will leave. If I wanted to not be able to enjoy a beer, be max'd at 35 mph, and have some asshole cop harrassing me I would go to lake perris and save tons of money. Those 100 million dollar net worth people someone was talking about wouldnt come to havasu in the first place. They would be running million dollar boats off the shores of florida! Havasu has always had a "white trash" conotation with it, I think the city wants that to change but it never will. Hell, im white trash and proud of it thats why I go there. I just make a little more than other white trash.

[Ziggy]

. I'd like to see other cops views on this,
Like some others here have said - that ord is too vaguely written. I will admit I have not seen a lot of enforcement misques in the channel but if half of what has been said about bone headed authority misuse by LHCPD, then the vagueness of this ord is compounded. For instance, I have not seen LHCPD take on the "gangster" type element that has been a real threat to safety and quality of life, so will this change that?
Only good leadership and a firm collective understanding of what is illegal will do.
__________________
...........

[Throttle]

i did not know that good people havin a good time would stir so much *#@!

[Havasu_Dreamin]

i did not know that good people havin a good time would stir so much *#@!
The problem is that not all of them are 'good'.
Without addressing this new ordinance and it's ramifications and vagueness directly think about this, the channel and London Bridge beach is basically the City Park of Havasu. Consider what kind of activities/behavior you, collectively not directed at Throttle, would expect to see or tolerate in your own City Park and then apply the same principals/values to the activities in their City Park. Just a thought.
Flame away as I've got my fire proof underwear on today.

[kanedog]

I'd buy some of that stuff Kilrtoy is supposedly selling anyday. PM me Kilr, we can meet, I will purchase.

[Liquid Courage]

Bottom line:
If this new law is enforced properly it is going to be a good thing.
(Like many other laws) if it is abused, it will be a very bad thing.
There's an old saying in LE....They only catch the dumb ones.....Act dumb and bring attention to yourself is going to bring the heat down. I say good ridence!
Though I do agree enforcement should be a bit more selective. I don't really think LE should be worried about me driving through the channel in my Cigarette because it's a few feet too long when there are 18 pure dirtbags throwing trash on the ground and being beligerent near by...That is a true story but it's not the cops fault, they do have their hands full out there and as with all LE agencies are most likely understaffed. And as a side note, that is the only time I've ever been sweated in the channel by LE.

[RiverDave]

I cruised through the channel a couple of weeks ago, kids were throwing rocks at boats (mine) I saw a "dookie" floating by, smelled like carbon monoxide and I'm sure the water had just a few gallons of urine in there.. I'm still amazed that some of you with such beatiful boats just sit there all day long in that S-hole of a place. I don't understand the attraction to the channel other than it being a great place for a bachelor party to get drunk and try to start trouble.. The channel reminds me of a tailgate party at a Raider game...
Part of the reason they are trying to clean it up if I had to guess.
RD

[superdave013]

just like Palm Springs. To them, the revenue is not worth it. If the city shrinks...all the better to them. But reality is - Havasu is one of a kind. And...there are not a lot of boating areas in the south west, so competition is not that big. So, it will not shrink.
it won't srink just as Palm Springs didn't. My inlaws moved to the P.S. area a few years ago. I don'tsee that place shrinking at all. In fact I'd say it is growing at a pretty good pace.

[kanedog]

Are you suggesting that we become rats and informants?

[Flyinbowtie]

I have spent a total of less than 12 hours in the channel, and only about 10 days in Havasu, so subtract whatever the perceived value of being a resident for any time at all would be from what I have to say.
Somebody asked for other cop's comments.
Enforcing laws, whether state or local ordinance, is critically dependant upon the mindset of the cop working the beat. If they have guidance from the sergeants, who have been givn direction from the brass, then they use the tools at hand to do the work.
I don't know if LHCPD has the tools. If the enactment of this ordinance was driven by the P.D., then perhaps they did not feel they did have the tools. If the council did it, then the COP and Sheriff need to find out just what the problem is they want addressed, and figure out how to address it. It does sound alot like the right hand don't know what the left hand is doing down there, which is typical of small tourist-dependant type towns.
Like any tool, though, it is all about how they are used.
I will say this about the tweakers. This is something I do know about.
If the county or city has a Task Force, then there is a huge cherry waiting to be picked in the channel. Tweakers go to places for just a few reasons. To cop crank, to use crank,to steal stuff to buy crank, or to make crank.
Tweakers are probably good for at least 60% of the property crime in LHC.
Just like everywhere else.
Hook a bunch of them up for 11550 H/S, or whatever is the Az. statute, and start working the park, channel, etc for them. Get a probation handle on a couple dozen frequent flyers and start working the search/siezure end. Tweakers will snitch out their own mothers to stay out of jail.
If there isn't a task force or it is understaffed, then maybe somebody with some juice needs to sit down and start lookin' for some (more) grant money.
None of this is rocket science; just basic police work. Hit this hard, with patrol and non-uniformed DRE types, and the channel will darn near clean itself up.

[91nordic29]

...pretty simple to me.....keep your top on in the channel..... :rolleyes:
If you prefer to wear pasties, take it elsewhere on the lake or river.
What's so difficult about that...??
pasties are perfectly legal

[beaverretriever]

Typically, I like and agree with most your posts Keith. But I think you are having a over-dramatized knee jerk reaction and over estimate how many people will go away and who will actually be hassled. I have 7 families in my direct family that have a collective net worth of well over $100 million that all avoid Havasu who have boating as their #1 recreational hobby. They would love to come back to Havasu and I think Havasu would love to have them back. You don't seem to realize how much business has been driven away. I know a lot of other people in the same boat...so to speak. They are the ones that quietly went away when they were told that if they didn't like it, don't come. I think the tourists would be encouraged that extra measures are being taken to make sure the #2 tourist attractiion in AZ has a Disneyland type atmosphere.
HolyMoly,
I see what you are saying but I hate to say it, the families with money dont spend it in Havasu.
MOST of the families I know that are into the sport of boating do all their shopping at home then bring their own food in coolers, bbq at the house they rent, stay at home at night after a hot day on the lake.
MOST of the younger crowd goes out to dinner every night, goes to the bars, and drops a lot of cash.
I was one of that younger crowd. Not one time till I was about 28 did my friends or I ever bring food. We went out every night, and spent a ton of dough.
Now that Im in my 30s, we dont spend the money like I used too. We dont go get plastered at the bar till 1 am everynight, but I still do know a lot younger people that do.
The reason your family is worth 100 million is because they probably dont spend 300.00 a night at the bar on alcohol. LOL

[Dan Lorenze]

Uhhh, carbon monoxide is odorless. As such there is no smell associated with it.
You're correct.. I should have said exhaust fumes.. :)

[KACHINA KEN]

The sky is falling.

[ViB]

That is the best response of the day...and let's not forget that this law is sooooooo vague, that any LE that has a hair up his ass and pissed cuz he drew duty that weekend, can arrest your ass if he damn well pleases, and there ain't sh!t you can do about it, cuz there isn't a judge that'll go against him/her. :mad: :mad: Well funs over...... :cry:
bignet
Well said. Just for the above reason, we're done! What are we really going to do about being arbitrarily arrested...? drop 50k to take the conviction from some pissant LHC court to the district appellate court? Is it worth it? Or is it better to just go somewhere else without the risk?
Sorry, venting here :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Ziggy]

The sky is falling.
Dang sky just bumped me in the head :) So I pushed it back up where it belongs. :p

[bignet]

I think the city council would love to have people like me and my family come to havasu. Not a whole lot of drama created by my family building sand castles and listening to oldies and the Cedarmont Kids (christian kids music) that you can only hear when you are in the boat. My boat is a part of Havasu history...a 20 1/2 Campbell River Cruiser. Nobody will complain about us keeping to ourselves and saying that Havasu needs to get rid of the people that don't know how to party. However, they might complain about a short hairy ugly midget with a lazy eye and a farmer tan. :D
No offense Holy Moly, but save the sermon doggy...My entire family may not be worth $100 million :rolleyes: , but I don't think all the tourists go to Havasu to listen to Christian music and watch your kids make sand castles.....even the families that go there, I'd say, most of the adults are there because the river is our outlet. It's our playground. I AGREE the Channel should be regulated, but no more than LE is already doing. Having an ordinance as vague as this one, is just asking for there to be an abuse of power. It's overly subjective in what one person considers "lewd behavior". Hell, my grandma wouldn't watch Soul Train, but my mom did? :idea:
Just my .02
:crossx:
bignet

[SoCalSouthpaw]

Ever since HolyMoly quit going to Havasu and the Channel - its gone downhill, the devil saw an opportunity and exploited it. So, you have what we see today in the channel. The devils work. Once word spread about the absense of the 100million dollar family promoting a safe family evironment via broadcasting Christian Music over a loud speaker and having the kiddy's building Sand Castles and such - all hell broke loose. :skull:

[Magic34]

HolyMoly,
I see what you are saying but I hate to say it, the families with money dont spend it in Havasu.
MOST of the families I know that are into the sport of boating do all their shopping at home then bring their own food in coolers, bbq at the house they rent, stay at home at night after a hot day on the lake.
MOST of the younger crowd goes out to dinner every night, goes to the bars, and drops a lot of cash.
I was one of that younger crowd. Not one time till I was about 28 did my friends or I ever bring food. We went out every night, and spent a ton of dough.
Now that Im in my 30s, we dont spend the money like I used too. We dont go get plastered at the bar till 1 am everynight, but I still do know a lot younger people that do.
The reason your family is worth 100 million is because they probably dont spend 300.00 a night at the bar on alcohol. LOL
I am a "younger" family and I know you said "MOST" but a lot of our friends that we hang or come with dont do all of that.
I am 27 and have been going to Havasu with my own boat since I was 22. We stay at a local hotel, buy all our food in Havasu once we get there, buy most of our drinks there in Havasu, and lunch is always at either Havasu Springs or somehwere in the channel. I have a 2 y/o daughter so for 3 1/2 years, I was going there not as a parent.
Last time there, we stayd at a friend's house for the first time, and only BBQ'd 1 night but bought everything in Havasu which was about $100 for 10 people. The other 2 nights, we were at local restaurants. I think I enjoy the hotels more for the ease of everything.
That being said, I have been to Kokomos 2 times in 5 1/2 years, and I think that was when I first went to Havasu when I was 22 and I have ordered 1 drink there and was in there no more than 2 hours.
Outside the booze which I hardly spend any money on unless it is trying to get the wife hammered at Javalina Cantina (and that is only 2 margaritas :rollside: ), all of my money is spent on food and hotel, and the same goes for most of our group from PHX that comes too. The only exception is that they do drink much more than us, but that is very easy to do.
On an average weekend staying at the Nautical, I spend $750 on hotel, $450 on boat fuel, buy gas for the truck in Havasu, so another $80 or so, and all of our food which averages probably $250 per trip. If staying at QB, the hotel is about $300 less.
I would think that this is the norm for familes (with exception of boat fuel) as even though it seems a lot of people own homes there, that would be the minority in terms of visitors.
I understand your point, but even a 20% change either way could put a temporary struggle on the city, whether it is the family crowd or party crowd.
I think they should police it better, but the "gray" area does seem as a violation of rights, and it needs to be very black and white about what is allowed and what is not.
A female dancing on a boat with a bikini on, regardless of how skimpy it may be, should not be a fine in my opinion. I agree with that, but at the same time, I also see the point as the "tweakers" come into the channel looking for that stuff.
The city is taking shots in the dark about what to do, and it is clear that they are willing to just try anything to make this happen. Maybe they dont have the budget to get the right consultants in there to evaluate what should really be done, and I dont see them asking for the state's help. That would be a political nightmare/embarassment for them to look for help on running their city. They would become the laughing stock of politics in AZ. Maybe that is starting, who knows.
A more visible LE presence goes a long way.

[shueman]

Being a town that is heavily dependent on tourism, it's a difficult task to keep all the various elements in play....not easy, not easy at all. I wish them luck.

[Magic34]

Being a town that is heavily dependent on tourism, it's a difficult task to keep all the various elements in play....not easy, not easy at all. I wish them luck.
Exactly, good luck!!!!

[Ziggy]

I am a "younger" family and I know you said "MOST" but a lot of our friends that we hang or come with dont do all of that.
I am 27 and have been going to Havasu with my own boat since I was 22. We stay at a local hotel, buy all our food in Havasu once we get there, buy most of our drinks there in Havasu, and lunch is always at either Havasu Springs or somehwere in the channel. I have a 2 y/o daughter so for 3 1/2 years, I was going there not as a parent.
Last time there, we stayd at a friend's house for the first time, and only BBQ'd 1 night but bought everything in Havasu which was about $100 for 10 people. The other 2 nights, we were at local restaurants. I think I enjoy the hotels more for the ease of everything.
That being said, I have been to Kokomos 2 times in 5 1/2 years, and I think that was when I first went to Havasu when I was 22 and I have ordered 1 drink there and was in there no more than 2 hours.
Outside the booze which I hardly spend any money on unless it is trying to get the wife hammered at Javalina Cantina (and that is only 2 margaritas :rollside: ), all of my money is spent on food and hotel, and the same goes for most of our group from PHX that comes too. The only exception is that they do drink much more than us, but that is very easy to do.
On an average weekend staying at the Nautical, I spend $750 on hotel, $450 on boat fuel, buy gas for the truck in Havasu, so another $80 or so, and all of our food which averages probably $250 per trip. If staying at QB, the hotel is about $300 less.
I would think that this is the norm for familes (with exception of boat fuel) as even though it seems a lot of people own homes there, that would be the minority in terms of visitors.
I understand your point, but even a 20% change either way could put a temporary struggle on the city, whether it is the family crowd or party crowd.
I think they should police it better, but the "gray" area does seem as a violation of rights, and it needs to be very black and white about what is allowed and what is not.
A female dancing on a boat with a bikini on, regardless of how skimpy it may be, should not be a fine in my opinion. I agree with that, but at the same time, I also see the point as the "tweakers" come into the channel looking for that stuff.
The city is taking shots in the dark about what to do, and it is clear that they are willing to just try anything to make this happen. Maybe they dont have the budget to get the right consultants in there to evaluate what should really be done, and I dont see them asking for the state's help. That would be a political nightmare/embarassment for them to look for help on running their city. They would become the laughing stock of politics in AZ. Maybe that is starting, who knows.
A more visible LE presence goes a long way.
I'd agree the city is trying to make things better...a shot in the dark can be dangerous though.....
I believe they may just need people that can write and speak better so the real objective is properly articulated and not misunderstood by the public....
Time will tell if the new idea will be effective or have the reverse effect and drive people away from visiting again.

[Magic34]

By the way... I have a neutral view on this. I am not for or against the CC.
If there is something I see in the channel that we dont like, maybe a fight or someone doing drugs, it's simple to me, we leave the channel and go somewhere else. My boat does move and I try to keep gas in it.

[SoCalSouthpaw]

bump :cool:

[JustDawn]

Ever since HolyMoly quit going to Havasu and the Channel - its gone downhill, the devil saw an opportunity and exploited it. So, you have what we see today in the channel. The devils work. Once word spread about the absense of the 100million dollar family promoting a safe family evironment via broadcasting Christian Music over a loud speaker and having the kiddy's building Sand Castles and such - all hell broke loose. :skull:
Great post... :cool: ,How does Havasu survive without the 100 million dollar club present :rolleyes:
Been going to Havasu since 1993,A LOT has changed since then...It's been stated many times,but the MTV fiasco is when(IMO) things began to deteriorate...
Back then you would have some fairly busy weekends and some pretty slow weekends.
It seems as if EVERY weekend in Havasu is now packed...
We drive 1100 miles round trip every 2-3 weeks,Met a couple last week who drive from Denver,15 hrs each way,at least once a month just to be part of the deal...the Place still works,and to be honest unless things change significantly...we'll keep doing the drive....(PlayDeep)

[SoCalSouthpaw]

No offense Bignet, but you obvious didn't understand my post...so I will slow down and use small words. The point of mentioning the $$$ is because there are many people who keep claiming that Havasu will go broke as if it was only the people who like to party and listen to loud music are the only one's with money when there are just as many non partying types with plenty of money who will come and I gave a specific example. The comment was not meant to be bragging about money(because I am not part of that figure...nor will they give me any) - the comment was meant to say BULLSHIT that Havasu will go broke. All the people in my family are self made - there was no money in this family just a generation ago - so no trust fund babies (yet), just people who were tired of working for someone else. Also, I didn't say that people would come to see my family in "action." I said, nobody would be bothered and the only people that can here the music, if we are even playing it at all, are the people in my boat..and perhaps right next to it..but they would have to lean in to figure out what kind of music it was. I don't assume people want to listen to my music or even assume they won't mind listening. The point of even mentioning the music type is that it was innocuous...oops, big word, sorry...I mean that it was nothing anyone would be offended by - unlike playing M&M at ear drum shattering levels of how he killed his bitch ho wife and had his daughter come along while they dumped her body in the lake or perhaps a long remix version of "I just wanna f you."
The point is, there is a large group of people that were at Havasu before it became a party spot and were told to leave if they don't like it by the crowd that invaded it. Now, it is a little just rewards and kind of fun to watch that same crowd scream and cry about how the sky is falling and civil liberties are being taken and blah blah blah.....the shoe is on the other foot, so if you don't like it...don't come, Right?!?!? You are not a hypocrite are ya?
:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: yawwwwwwn......one little sheep, two little sheep, three lit.....Oh, hey! Wow, sorry there Preacher Man Holy. I guess I dozed off trying to follow the sermon. I think I can still offer up an interesting observation even though I was countin sheep (no pun) - what I think is kinda funny is how you have your point of view, in regards to why you havent been to Havasu in, 20yrs was it? Something like that. Anyways, point being is I find it humorous for someone :boxed: who obvisously doesnt like Havasu current day and havent been there for so long....to spend so much time in a forum where 90%+ of the topics relate to Havasu in some fashion or another. Makes one kinda go "Hmmmmmmmm.... :idea: "