Question for all of you

[Socal33]

First time posting here so please go easy.
After many trips with friends my wife and I have decided to look into buying a boat for our family. My question for all of you is simple, not really but here goes.
Do people buy boats they can afford, or are most saddled with payments for 15-20years??

[wedge44]

Most are saddled with payments they may be able to afford...... :D :D :D

[nordy racer]

didn't you know... thats the only way to boat, allways worried about the 20 year payment..

[T-56]

I've always bought boats I could pay cash for. But, I'm single w/ no children so I get away w/ alot of things most ppl can't
Welcome!

[MRSDRMCAT]

we have the 30 year loan :220v: :p :220v: :p

[Run_em_Hard]

I did a ten on mine...not too long. If you are comfortable doing a long term loan on a boat, go for it.

[Socal33]

I've always bought boats I could pay cash for. But, I'm single w/ no children so I get away w/ alot of things most ppl can't
Welcome!
Thats my point, half of the big $$$ boats I see are driven by kids half my age.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Alot of ppl with the high $ boats are paying long term loans. IMO if you can't pay something off in less then 5 years( other then a house) you can't aford it.
If your looking to "get your feet wet" there are lots of runabouts in the 17-20ft range that would make a great choice for a new boater.

[Run_em_Hard]

Thats my point, half of the big $$$ boats I see are driven by kids half my age.
Its like I tell everyone that can't believe what kind of time and money me and my father have into my boat..."It all depends on what you want to spend your money one". I am only 22 and my boat is in my sig...but I don't do like all my friends and go to the bar twice a week or buy a ton of stupid shit.

[No Name]

My advice is to buy as much boat that you can pay cash for without going broke and having to take a second mortgage on your home. Boating is a very expensive hobby and I could not imagine having a boat payment on top of all the other expenses that come along with ownership.

[3 daytona`s]

Thats my point, half of the big $$$ boats I see are driven by kids half my age.
When you look in the SPAM section and many other sites,the novelty of a big bad-ass boat ends much before the loan is paid.

[Kilrtoy]

When you look in the SPAM section and many other sites,the novelty of a big bad-ass boat ends much before the loan is paid.
That goes for anything....
Do what makes you happy and you can afford, and remeber GAS AINT CHEAP

[No Name]

GAS AINT CHEAP
That’s for sure. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Dan Lorenze]

Everyone's different. All that matters is that you get on the water. We paid cash but their's nothing wrong with making a payment, I guess it's all about how big you want to go and if you want to buy new or used. Their are a lot of barely used boats for sale right now.

[centerhill condor]

no name and the others are right! #1 your first boat will get beaten up on the trailer, water, backyard, hit the dock, rocks, etc, etc, etc.... buy a boat with cash money. #2 If you borrow money to buy a boat, you're betting much worse than at Vegas! You'll have your first boat a year or two and then realize what you really "needed"...#3 with borrowed money you're upside down and mad at it and she's (wife) mad at you! #4 Boats break constantly and require preventive maintenance....so you'll spend an additional "payment" on repairs and stuff you don't even know exists yet. #5 A paid for boat can sit in the back yard without insurance.
Dave Ramsey makes a fortune off people after they make stupid decisions! See the spam section... guy has a $250k boat he must sell because of a baby... ? my guess is the wife doesn't know about the baby yet? its all about ego...edging God out.
Also, check with your insurance agent about a list of boats and options they won't insure. People with low impulse control show up at the state farm office with a 22' tunnell, with OT pipes, twin blowers with nitrous and wonder why they can't get insurance.... make note to self.
My buddy greg says, if it floats, flies, or fornicates, rent it! One nice thing about borrowed boat money is they're always folks in financial distress that "must sell"...there's your cash opportunity!

[Trailer Park Casanova]

I think most get the LOOOONG payments.
If we finance, it's a big down then 36 months and we make double payments.
The long financing often keeps the owners upside down on the boats equity and thus hard to sell without taking a "Discount".
Best way is to use a home equity loan so you can write it off if you're some time longer than 36 months on the financing.
It surprises me how many people go for that super long financing.
Some peeps are stuck with floats they can't afford in this economy, and are trying to unload them to a dead market.
I don't have the balls to get in that long or deep or expensive.
That's for sex.

[axkiker]

where in the world are you all getting 20 - 30 yr loans on boats at. The most I have seen is 10-15 yr. Like my pappy said if you can finance it you can afford it. Its the american way.
But seriously if you are considering financing sometimes its not a bad direction to go. For one it may put you in a boat which makes you happier. Can you put a price on being happy. 2nd if say you were going to spend 50k on a boat. Which is better to spend that whole lump on a boat which is going to do nothing but depreciate. Or make payments on it and dump that 50 k into some type of investment which will make you some chedder in the long run.
Not that this always holds true but just a thought.

[sleekcraft78]

Its like I tell everyone that can't believe what kind of time and money me and my father have into my boat..."It all depends on what you want to spend your money one". I am only 22 and my boat is in my sig...but I don't do like all my friends and go to the bar twice a week or buy a ton of stupid shit.
Well said right there. I myself own my own house, boat, Duramax, Tahoe, Quads Toy box trailer, And the only bills I have are the house and trailer. Friends of mine don't understand that the bar and smokin pot is sucking them dry. Whatever! I always get what I want and I'm 25.

[GHT]

That goes for anything....
Do what makes you happy and you can afford, and remeber GAS AINT CHEAP
No Doubt!!! I still have a full tank from last weekend and I expect it will stay full for another 3 weeks..... When you not paying for gas your paying to fix your boat.... :cry: :cry:

[v-drive]

like someone else said buy something that gets you floating. Boating is an education and you need to be educated before you plop down a bundle without knowing...v-drive

[NOTALENT]

You only live once....fock it...Buy a DCB and sell it next week... :crossx:

[ratso]

The only "rule of thumb" here is Don't buy a Bayliner...

[GunninGopher]

It sounds like you've been to the river enough to have an idea of what you'll want, but I guarantee you that you will find a lot of things that you'd do different by the end of next summer, and want a different boat by then.
I'd suggest getting something that you think you'd like for cheap so that you can unload it in a couple of years and get a newer one that you can be more confident will fit your family's needs.
My most recent boat (my 4th) I paid 3k for and it needed about $500 wofth of work. I've done some upgrades, but still only have about 5k into it. All along I have known that I'd be getting another one in a couple of years. By the way, it runs perfect. Try to find a deal like that.
One more thing, every boat inherently has significant tradeoffs so try to figure out what your biggest priorities are so that you can make an informed decision.
Bigger boats are more expensive to purchase, own and run, more cumbersome to store and tow, but they have more room, are more comfortable.
Smaller boats are less expensive to purchase and run, they are easier to store and tow, but you have less space and they are more challenging and less comfortable in larger wakes.
The first things you need to think about are how much money you have, how much room do you need, and where are you going to run it.

[a catered life]

i may be a little different than most of the guys here but hell im looking to retire early also......i generally pay cash for most everyting.... if i need to finance anything it better be something i can live in :p i dont do payments we have been blessed to pay cash for most things cars, trucks, boats, etc.....we may not have the best looking boat or the fastest on the water but thats not my goal in life... my goal is to have enough money to give my kids life long memories and be able to own something...to me thats one of the best feeling in the world (OWNERSHIP)......i have never financed a boat and hopefully never will we just looks for good used boats to upgrade to and enjoy what we have

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

I like the payment plan of twenty years. With the money you invest in RE it could make your payment for you. If something bad were to happen oh well. You put nothing down.
Good example
Buy 100 thousand dollar condo cash. rent it for 700 per month.
after hoa and taxes you have 400 left for a payment!
Ta da!! Thats why I sit in the big goushy leather chair!!
If you a baller I guess cash is ok, but I know most everyone here and they need the payment plan :rollside:

[a catered life]

I like the payment plan of twenty years. With the money you invest in RE it could make your payment for you. If something bad were to happen oh well. You put nothing down.
Good example
Buy 100 thousand dollar condo cash. rent it for 700 per month.
after hoa and taxes you have 400 left for a payment!
Ta da!! Thats why I sit in the big goushy leather chair!!
If you a baller I guess cash is ok, but I know most everyone here and they need the payment plan :rollside:
good example but you forgot one thing most of the time if you have cash for something you can get it for a huge percentage less and see your profits faster so that 100 thousand condo for you may cast me only 80 or 85 but of course i have to save the 85k :p
and ps i also have a big goushy leather chair but i got the cheap one that only has leather to touch :p

[MBlaster]

If it was 2 years ago I'd say finance something since moneys dirt cheap.
But with 17 straight Fed fund increases(except the last) the cost of money has gone up quite a bit. Guys that did HELOC's are starting to hate life. The state of the world is so focked up we are a fart away from real bad chit. That being said I'd find something cheap and affoardable and pay cash.
Unless you like paying 7.5% interest on a 10-15 year loan with a ***/mo payment + insurance, gas, mantanence,etc.

[axkiker]

what he said.
I like the payment plan of twenty years. With the money you invest in RE it could make your payment for you. If something bad were to happen oh well. You put nothing down.
Good example
Buy 100 thousand dollar condo cash. rent it for 700 per month.
after hoa and taxes you have 400 left for a payment!
Ta da!! Thats why I sit in the big goushy leather chair!!
If you a baller I guess cash is ok, but I know most everyone here and they need the payment plan :rollside:

[MBlaster]

i may be a little different than most of the guys here but hell im looking to retire early also......i generally pay cash for most everyting.... if i need to finance anything it better be something i can live in :p i dont do payments we have been blessed to pay cash for most things cars, trucks, boats, etc.....we may not have the best looking boat or the fastest on the water but thats not my goal in life... my goal is to have enough money to give my kids life long memories and be able to own something...to me thats one of the best feeling in the world (OWNERSHIP)......i have never financed a boat and hopefully never will we just looks for good used boats to upgrade to and enjoy what we have
Amen brutha.

[Avenger 1975]

You can get a great boat for short money if you aren't too concerned with new and perfect. If you look at early to mid '90's 18-20 ft. I/O models you can spend $5,000 - $10,000 for a boat that would cost $25,000 - $35,000 new. Might be some hull wear and interior will show its age but it will run and ski nearly as good as the new boat. Then next year or the year after you'll know what you like and dislike and can make a better decision long term.
This way you pay cash now, see how you like it, how much you use it, and can make a better decision on cash/financing down the road.

[KACHINA KEN]

Mine is for 12 yrs with alot down, payment is no more than a Vette payment so no big whoop. It's like buying a couple nice cars one after the other . I think it's totally worth it, just don't get over your head.

[Socal33]

If it was 2 years ago I'd say finance something since moneys dirt cheap.
But with 17 straight Fed fund increases(except the last) the cost of money has gone up quite a bit. Guys that did HELOC's are starting to hate life. The state of the world is so focked up we are a fart away from real bad chit. That being said I'd find something cheap and affoardable and pay cash.
Unless you like paying 7.5% interest on a 10-15 year loan with a ***/mo payment + insurance, gas, mantanence,etc.
Very amazing to here that people borrow against their homes to buy toys. I would never be able to sleep, nor look at myself in the mirror. I have to agree with A Catered Life's point of view, if you dont have the cash, or at least 75% of it then forget about it.
Thanks for the opinions folks.

[Debbolas]

:DOur first boat was a 19ft Sea Ray that we used for 5 years, until our kids got so big they all couldn't fit in the bow together.
We love our boat we have now....we went up to 26ft.
I think we actually need two boats, a little jet for the river and our big boat for the lakes.
If you can, buy used :D
Good Luck!:D

[Socal33]

Seems fair to say that there are two types of boat owners. Those that live within their means, and those that are over extended nursing their big ego's. Glad to see that most of you are on the good side of that.
As far as the post regarding the Fed and 17 rate hikes, judgement day is coming, and I for one will be combing the spam section to buy a $100,000 boat for about .40 cents on the dollar.
Thanks again.

[KACHINA KEN]

Seems fair to say that there are two types of boat owners. Those that live within their means, and those that are over extended nursing their big ego's. Glad to see that most of you are on the good side of that.
As far as the post regarding the Fed and 17 rate hikes, judgement day is coming, and I for one will be combing the spam section to buy a $100,000 boat for about .40 cents on the dollar.
Thanks again.
You can do that now over on OSO. :) :) :)

[MR HARLEY]

You only live once....fock it...Buy a DCB
Hell yeah! :crossx:

[Cole Trickle]

I think you need to do whats best for your situation.
We own 2 boats
Our 85 21' foot Cole cost us 13K 10 years ago.It ran perfect for the first 4 years and then started nickle and diming us to death.(2K here-5K there-rtc..)The boat hasn't been driven in over a year and we are almost embarrased to sell it because we have close to 45K into the boat (Including the original cost) and we could sell it for maybe 12K.
Used boats are very exspensive when you start replacing Motors,Jets,Gauges,Interior,etc.
If you calculate what we spent on that boat and break it down monthly we averaged right at $500 a month to keep it running.
We fianced our new boat in May 05. I locked in a good 15 year interest rate that is under 7% and I shopped boats that would work for us for the next couple years and in my opinion got a ton of boat for the money and now have the luxary of a warranty.(We have used it )
The new boat cost us about $100 more a month than the old boat and gets way better fuel economy and has turn key reliability. (Not to mention it is 10 feet longer and has a higher top speed :) )
I would rather finance a semi high dollar boat than waste 80K cash up front on a depreciating item.(I will sell it and buy something else in the next 2 years or so)
I will never use my home equity to buy toys. If I can't afford them cash or monthly I won't buy them.

[burtandnancy]

Remember the old boater saying "if you have to ask, you can't afford it."

[Jyruiz]

Since it is your first boat, buy used but used with low hours, or a used one from somebody here. The peeps on this board tend to take real good care of there stuff. I financed mine with a low rate and for 15 years, but I always send extra so it really wont take me that long to pay it off. I like many others here, would not pay cash for something that looses its value so fast, I can put that money to work for me in other places.

[No Name]

I can put that money to work for me in other places.
And with the money you make on investing that 80,000.00 or 100,000.00 you can make your boat payment. :confused: :D :D

[Titan7]

This is a great thread and right on point with my current situation.
I think it just depends on your financial situation and what makes you happy. I am looking at purchasing a new boat also but I don't have $100k sitting around. Payments make a lot of sense for many folks. A 10-15 yr loan does not mean you have to go full term, you can pay it off sooner.
My wife was shocked at the price for new boats and she was concerned about resale value. I reminded her about our 2003 fully loaded Explorer that cost $37k and is now worth $16k. How's that for a nice ROI. I know it's a car and they are money pits, but that's just reality. Glad I got 0%APR on that deal but I am still losing a crap load of money. Had I paid in cash for it nothing would have changed. I would still be out $21,000. We looked at new GMC Tahoes, Fully loaded $53k+ :220v: :220v: :220v: Car pricing is F-ing out of control. $53k today = $25k value in 2-3 yrs.
Now I have seen a lot of posting on this board about how boats retain their value. I see many 3-4 yr old boats selling for what the they were purchased for 3-4 yrs ago because the cost of a new one is $20k higher. That does not seem like a bad deal? I think the guys in the $80k-$100+ range are having a really hard time selling because frankly, that's a really small market. On this forum it may not seem that way but outside of here, it a very small market. Boat prices are out of control too, most of my employees, are making $60-$90k per year, so they need to spend the entire gross annual salary to purchase a 23-26 foot custom boat, or 4-8x their salary to purchase a home in OC. Crazy, just crazy.
I know a lot of folks say "pay cash for toys or cars, etc", well, if you can afford the payment then you can afford the toy as long as you can live on one income (if you are married). Your other option is you can save for a couple years. I know there are some well to do folks on this forum that can wake up tomorrow and go drop $50-$100k cash tomorrow if they want, reality is 90% can't. I can't go drop $60-70k cash tomorrow, however I have a pretty good amount of disposible monthly income after all liabilities are paid so a $500-1000 boat payment is a drop in the bucket. So I am not worried about payments.
HELOC, not for everyone, but I don't see the problem with them. If you can't make the boat payment I would venture to guess you are having a hard time with the house payment too, or perhaps lost your job and then you are just f--ked all around. What about the car payment? If I got $50k Ultra tomorrow with a HELOC and a year from now I can't make the boat payment I would think I could get at least $45k for it, I can eat $5k for a year of use.
Now if the boat's worth $30k, well that's going to hurt. From a pure financial perspective, a HELOC purchase will put your home at risk if you default on the HELOC. However if you got into that situation you could just re-fi everything assuming your credit, employment, and equity sitiuation is positive. If any of these areas is lacking, don't do the HELOC.
Sorry for the long rant.

[Kilrtoy]

Now I have seen a lot of posting on this board about how boats retain their value. I see many 3-4 yr old boats selling for what the they were purchased for 3-4 yrs ago because the cost of a new one is $20k higher. That does not seem like a bad deal?
That is because of the crazy housing market
I think the guys in the $80k-$100+ range are having a really hard time selling because frankly, that's a really small market. On this forum it may not seem that way but outside of here, it a very small market.
have you actually priced a boat out the door with everything, they are all that price, almost all of them

[Kilrtoy]

we had to pay cash for our boat .... this "one" family from jersey was trying to block the "sale" :mad: :)
HEYYYYYYYYYYYY, FORGET ABOUT IT, HUHHHHHHHH, No hard feelings

[Titan7]

Kilrtoy,
I agree with you on the prices, it's just crazy most of the builders we went to see had nice stuff but to say prices are well high, well that is an understatement. It sort of looks like the RE market. Now Interest rates and gas prices are going up are the prices of boats are coming down a little? I would hate to get into a new boat today and see a 20-30%+ drop in value next year. Timing is everything, just trying to determine if this is the right time. It's a little scary looking at a winter build when you won't get delivery until next Feb-Mar, who knows what the boat industry, interest rates, and gas prices will look like then? But those Ultras sure look nice!

[Kilrtoy]

Well I will go out on a limb and be slammed for it, BUT IT IS THE WRONG TIME TO BUY A NEW BOAT...
RE is dropping like a bad habit, rates are up, crazy loans are not happening, gas is thru the roof.
years ago boats went up 1 maybe 2K a year, now they are 10k a year plus, wait til you cant refinance your house to the moon on 0% interest to get that boat, boat builders will drop their price, HIGH END BUILDERS will stay the course but the middle and low end will have no choice but to drop prices to stay in business
I can already feel the wave coming after me

[voodoomedman]

If you have the money and can afford it then don't worry so much about what the value will be in a year or two unless you think you will hate boating or want a bigger boat. I could care less if my boat was worth only $5 tomorrow. Why? Because I love boating, my family loves boating and we love our boat. It isn't going anywhere. The only thing that may sting is that if prices drop that much then you might say I could have gotten a better deal if I'd have waited a year or two. Guess what that's a year or two without boating. Besides I personally think prices aren't going to just plummet. The drastic increases will stop and your better and your best builders might come down a bit. Maybe some of the less respected builders prices will drop somewhat significantly but they are less respected for a reason.

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

good example but you forgot one thing most of the time if you have cash for something you can get it for a huge percentage less and see your profits faster so that 100 thousand condo for you may cast me only 80 or 85 but of course i have to save the 85k :p
and ps i also have a big goushy leather chair but i got the cheap one that only has leather to touch :p
Sorry I forgot to say the condo was going for 125! Oh ya that chair your in must make your but sweat. Come on your worth it get a real one :rollside:

[DCBDaytona]

Well I will go out on a limb and be slammed for it, BUT IT IS THE WRONG TIME TO BUY A NEW BOAT...
RE is dropping like a bad habit, rates are up, crazy loans are not happening, gas is thru the roof.
years ago boats went up 1 maybe 2K a year, now they are 10k a year plus, wait til you cant refinance your house to the moon on 0% interest to get that boat, boat builders will drop their price, HIGH END BUILDERS will stay the course but the middle and low end will have no choice but to drop prices to stay in business
I can already feel the wave coming after me
I agree with you Mig...I WOULD NOT buy a new boat right now. Prices are inflated from the economy, so as the economy deflates, boat prices will too.
As for the cash/finance issue...Do whatever suites you best given your circumstances. For example, My pops has owned 7 boats in thr last 10 years and has paid cash for everyone...But he was also making more than the average person. Me on the otherhand, I'm 23 with a good paying job out of college. I don't have the cash, and don't have any desire to buy a house because of the market...I bought boat #1 last Oct for $20k cash, sold it two months ago for $27k, then turned and paid off my truck and put the remainder down on Boat #2, with short term financing for the remainder. The payments are tiny and well within my budget.
One thing to consider...If you're young good luck with insurance and financing. :yuk:

[HocusPocus]

when buying a boat, new or used eventually you will want to sell it to upgrade or get out all together. with very few exceptions, boats are not good investments, remember that just because you still owe $60k on a boat, it doesn't mean thats what its worth or what it will sell for. if you buy a $10k dollar boat then do $15k in upgrades it doesn't necessarily make it worth $25k. :) although many people selling their old boats may think so. :rollside:
doing a little homework on prices can save you some cash upfront and save you some heart ache in a couple years when you sell. good luck and happy boating.

[beaverretriever]

Personally throwing 50-100k cash on a boat is dumb (unless 80k is like 100 bucks to you?) That money can be used many other ways to make you more than the 8% the loan may cost you.
We split the difference.
Im also not saying dont put anything down or finance a 100%. I dont agree with that either. We found that 1/2 down always seems like a good plan. We always put 1/2 or more down, this way you will always have some equity in your purchase if things go bad.
We were one of the blessed when we sold our last boat.. WE SOLD IT FOR MORE THAN WE BOUGHT IT FOR! We used it for a solid yr. We felt it wasnt right for us and decided to get rid of it. The way boat prices were and are going up, the same model now a yr later is a good 3-6k more than what we paid for ours when new. Ours was low hrs, and the wait to get a new one was 2 months so people were all over it, even at a full retail price. We sold at peak season when people were excited about hitting up the lake. It actually came down to inflation that helped us instead of depreciation killing us. LOL.
So that brings me to my next tip. Buy during the off season. You will get a much better deal. ;)
Many of the people on this site really know there stuff so ask lots of questions and use that Search button. It really helped me.
Good luck

[Dave C]

what this guy said.......
invest your cash in something (real estate, stock market, new business venture) Then finance your hobbys under shortest possible loan terms.
If you must finance, seriously consider making extra principal payments on your loans...... but live within your means.
People would be shocked on how much interest they pay on their loans if they keep them for their entire length. Assume 3 loans of $20,000, $50,000 & $80,000. Just the total interest paid over a 15 year term @7% is $12,357, $30,894 & $49,431, respectively. :cry:
Now assume the same loans but increase the loan payment by 50% each month (i.e. pay a little extra). The total interest drops to $6,332, $15,730, $25,128, respectively (monthly payments increased by $89, $224, $359) :)
by paying a little extra each month, the total finance charges over the life get cut in half. :supp: over time, most of us can afford to throw an extra hundred each month at our boat payment. every little bit counts, over time!!
ahh but what the hell do I know ;)
davec <----- CPA
I like the payment plan of twenty years. With the money you invest in RE it could make your payment for you. If something bad were to happen oh well. You put nothing down.
Good example
Buy 100 thousand dollar condo cash. rent it for 700 per month.
after hoa and taxes you have 400 left for a payment!
Ta da!! Thats why I sit in the big goushy leather chair!!
If you a baller I guess cash is ok, but I know most everyone here and they need the payment plan :rollside: