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BADBLOWN572
08-16-2006, 02:52 PM
I have a friend who has the opportunity to purchase a mold for a 20' Spectra. The mold is the original Spectra bottom and a modified deck, similar to the Howard Custom Cruiser. He is wondering if he should get the molds. He is very interested in it, but is unsure if anyone would be interested in purchasing them. He initially wants to start off with either blank hulls for sale and eventually get into full blown production boats setup for V-drive or IO. I don't know what to tell him. What do you all think? I know that the 20' Spectra is one of the best riding bottoms ever built, but not sure if anyone is looking for them. First rule of business is make sure that you have a market to sell to before you jump in with both feet. That is what he is trying to do.
He wants me to do the rigging on the boats which is great, but I want to make sure that I don't spend a bunch of time and effort designing parts, setups, etc without knowing that it is going to go somewhere. So, part of this is me wondering if I want to get involved with this project.
I found these pictures online of the boats
ORIGINAL
http://images.traderonline.com/EMedia/tarchive2/240/425372/00511058901.jpg
Howard Custom Cruiser (very similar to the new design)
http://images.traderonline.com/img/6/dealer/759226/85202412_1.jpg

lilrick
08-16-2006, 03:00 PM
GO FOR IT!!!!! I just bought a 20' Spectra v-drive ..Only downfall is that it's old . A new one would be bitchen.

RiverDave
08-16-2006, 03:12 PM
Well you already know my .02 cents on it BB572 as we've talked about it at pretty great lengths, but I'll say it again anyways..
If someone was to start producing these boats, and put a 496 / Bravo in them, and it came down to even steven on everything (Price, options) between one of these, and a newer style daycruiser (Cobra, Shockwave, etc..) I'd buy one of these hands down everytime. I prefer the classic styling, and more importantly the performance / ride of the old cruisers.
Obviously I'd be interested in a blank hull.
RD

HM
08-16-2006, 03:20 PM
If you build it, they will come.
I am with RD, I like the classic lines, and it would be nice to buy one brand new.

460 jus getn it
08-16-2006, 03:22 PM
Hell yea, stuff a blown 496 in there. I say go for it.

Cole Trickle
08-16-2006, 03:24 PM
I think it would be a bitchin ride and you would have some intrest.
With that being said I think it is the wrong time to jump into the boat market.I also think it would only appeal to a very small group of people that read this board and thumb through the magazines.(This could be a good thing)
I like them but would have zero intrest in owning something smaller than 25' due to the fact you could only put 4 people in that boat comfortably.I am sure that boat handles rough water great but it just dosen't have the freeboard/size I would be looking for in a Parker or Havasu boat.
If you could keep the price down and offer a nice package I am sure it would sell.(50-65K with standard BB power)

Sleek-Jet
08-16-2006, 03:29 PM
...I am sure that boat handles rough water great but it just dosen't have the freeboard/size I would be looking for in a Parker....
Wha??????? You are honestly saying a 20' boat in the River Cruiser class is not big enough for Parker???
I'm confused... :rollside: :rollside:
I know I would like to buy one... but in reality I probably wouldn't do to not wanting to finance a boat.

Cole Trickle
08-16-2006, 03:32 PM
Wha??????? You are honestly saying a 20' boat in the River Cruiser class is not big enough for Parker???
I'm confused... :rollside: :rollside:
I know I would like to buy one... but in reality I probably wouldn't do to not wanting to finance a boat.
20' to me is a small boat. I don't think it's enough boat on a really busy holiday weekend.
We have a 20' and it has not hit the water since we got the 28'.(Took on alot of water leaving the firework show a couple years back :p )

spectras only
08-16-2006, 03:33 PM
Love the 20 spectra [ had one for 26 yrs ] , but the trend seems to be towards larger boats .
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/spectra20.3jpg.jpg
I think a modified decked 24 spectra would be more popular , hence its rough water capabilities .
Here's my 24 V-drive a few weeks ago >
http://media.putfile.com/24-Spectra-in-English-Bay-2006-July-22

riverbound
08-16-2006, 03:36 PM
I honestly think it would be a VERY niche market (similar to the wood boats) and as long as marketed correctly to the right people it might do well. at the same time with interest rates where they are and people selling off all their toys becuase they got in way over their head. it might not be the best time to start a boat business.
I wouldnt put my money into it, unless it was done as a complete hobby. I odnt think the timing is right to start a niche boating co. But then again I have missed out on an opportunity or two for thinking the timing was wrong.

Sleek-Jet
08-16-2006, 03:38 PM
20' to me is a small boat. I don't think it's enough boat on a really busy holiday weekend.
We have a 20' and it has not hit the water since we got the 28'.(Took on alot of water leaving the firework show a couple years back :p )
It's a mater of prespective I guess... I'll take my 21' (Elim. Daycruiser) just about anywhere and feel safe in it, though I might not be going very fast at times. :D :D :D
With gas prices going the way they are, it might be a good time to "re-introduce" buyers to the smaller river cruisers...

Tequila-John
08-16-2006, 03:39 PM
YES Danny YES!!!

Cole Trickle
08-16-2006, 03:44 PM
[QUOTE=Sleek-Jet]It's a mater of prespective I guess... I'll take my 21' (Elim. Daycruiser) just about anywhere and feel safe in it, though I might not be going very fast at times. :D :D :D
QUOTE]
agreed
I am pretty spoiled with the current boat. It basicly goes through anything that Havasu can throw at it without batting an eye.
I also usually have 4-10 people on the boat so I need the room.

superdave013
08-16-2006, 03:45 PM
post this in the v drive forum to get the best response. I think it would go if you could keep the price inline. And by that I don't mean cheep. I know a guy who built a new schiada 21' not long ago and he had around 60K invested before an engine. Granted it was super nice with all the bad boy hardware. Those guys will always go for the schi schi but what about the people that don't have 150K for a complete boat? Like I said, if you could do it with the price inline I think that mold would be booked for a long time.
I do like the lines of the new style deck. There is a market for this style of boat for sure.

AZKC
08-16-2006, 03:47 PM
Love the 20 spectra [ had one for 26 yrs ] , but the trend seems to be towards larger boats .
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/spectra20.3jpg.jpg
I think a modified decked 24 spectra would be more popular , hence its rough water capabilities .
Here's my 24 V-drive a few weeks ago >
http://media.putfile.com/24-Spectra-in-English-Bay-2006-July-22
Not even on a whim would I go out in water like that in my 20ftr, looks like yours handled ok though :)

superdave013
08-16-2006, 03:49 PM
Well you already know my .02 cents on it BB572 as we've talked about it at pretty great lengths, but I'll say it again anyways..
If someone was to start producing these boats, and put a 496 / Bravo in them, and it came down to even steven on everything (Price, options) between one of these, and a newer style daycruiser (Cobra, Shockwave, etc..) I'd buy one of these hands down everytime. I prefer the classic styling, and more importantly the performance / ride of the old cruisers.
Obviously I'd be interested in a blank hull.
RD
C'Mon Dave, it would have to have a v drive or it would be just another I/O. I think some jetters would have some intrest also. I think the I/O crowd would go another direction more often then not. Just my 0.02

superdave013
08-16-2006, 04:03 PM
old skool
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1503IMG_0559.jpg

lilrick
08-16-2006, 04:21 PM
old skool
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1503IMG_0559.jpg
nice.

Havasu Lite
08-16-2006, 04:24 PM
I agree with RD. The cool to have something like this that could be made AFFORDABLE. It would be great to buy a boat like this with a 496 turn key setup.
I want mine in Crate Orange!!

wsuwrhr
08-16-2006, 04:25 PM
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1503IMG_0559.jpg
Hey SD,
While we are on the subject, remind me never to let you drive (ie. blow up) my boat.
Thanks pal.
Brian
:argue: :argue:

phebus
08-16-2006, 04:25 PM
A great boat in it's day, but a dinosaur in today's market. Way to small.

Sun burners
08-16-2006, 04:35 PM
What kind of $$$ for a bare hull?
Thanks Mike

Boatcop
08-16-2006, 05:25 PM
Isn't there a guy in Torrance who acquired the Spectra molds and was producing the blanks a few years ago?
I'd see if he was still producing and what kind of market he has/had.
If he couldn't make it, it might not be worth the investment, but you never know what kind of marketing he did on it.
I'll have to find the threads on him......
Found it. Molds from Miller Custom Boats
Here's the pics:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2428P3190007.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2428P3150138.JPG
and the thread.....
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74018

riverbound
08-16-2006, 05:37 PM
Isn't there a guy in Torrance who acquired the Spectra molds and was producing the blanks a few years ago?
I'd see if he was still producing and what kind of market he has/had.
If he couldn't make it, it might not be worth the investment, but you never know what kind of marketing he did on it.
I'll have to find the threads on him......
Found it. Miller Custom Boats
Here's the pics:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2428P3190007.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2428P3150138.JPG
and the thread.....
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74018
From what I recall, this guy never gave pricing out and seemed to have blown off any potential customers. I know I asked him a cvouple times for pricing and was never given an answer.

mbrown2
08-16-2006, 05:48 PM
Niche Market....
If you are looking to fill a niche market and not get rich (maybe break even) then go for it..
I think a lot of folks will come on these boards and say yes for a various reasons but when it comes to actually parting with money to buy one, I doubt it will happen......For them it sounds like a great idea when someone else is doing it.
The v drive boat guys are not swallowing up copies of Coles (now being done) so I doubt they are going to be swallowing up copies of Spectra's...(since it is not Spectra doing the layup or build)
The guy that wants a Schiada or Hallet Vector or 210 wants a Hallet or Schiada and is not going to settle for copy of Spectra that may or may or may not be built the same way...better or worse and will have questionable resale value....this buyer is not necessarily price centric but looking at the whole picture:
How long till this project gets off the ground and when do I get a boat...
How much will truly cost since the rigging will take a while and be done from scratch..
How will resale be for a revived Spectra...
I have it in my heart to have a Schiada...and I know I am going to pay a pretty penny for it.
To do the Sprectra with the engine I want...is going to be approx 10-12K for the boat no interior/rigging, 50K for the engine, 3-4K for interior, and who knows for guages and rigging...maybe 10K-15K....so for 70-75K I am into a no name new boat for maybe half as much as a Schiada....well I can find a used newer Schiada or Hallet for right around the same price and sell it for the same tomorrow as opposed to taking a depreciation hit on this boat...
I am probably going to go with the Schiada or Hallett....just my .02.
If you are ok with niche...go for it!

superdave013
08-16-2006, 06:23 PM
MBrown, you know what? You are prolly right. except I think your rigging figure is to low. Just going by what I've got invested in rigging mine.

mbrown2
08-16-2006, 07:00 PM
MBrown, you know what? You are prolly right. except I think your rigging figure is to low. Just going by what I've got invested in rigging mine.
I thought it was low....maybe with accessories, guages, rigging, steering, hardware...it will probably be north of 20K.....
And heck, you have done the work yourself....
Also, I could probably go with a lower priced motor package, but I don't how to build them myself and Carson's motor without a secret handshake are 40K non efi, 50K + for EFi....even quad whipple stuff is going to be near 50K from a reputable builder...

Froggystyle
08-17-2006, 07:24 AM
I...Carson's motor without a secret handshake are 40K non efi, 50K + for EFi....even quad whipple stuff is going to be near 50K from a reputable builder...
With the secret handshake a twin turbo EFI motor from Carson is north of $65K complete with no drive.

RiverDave
08-17-2006, 09:39 AM
I don't know about dinosaurs in todays Market. I got a brand new 22'6 Nordic back in 1998 and I can remember one of the 1st weekends I had it out, I was putting along about as fast as I cared to go in it for the water conditions only to see some 70's Spectra go blowing by me like I was standing still.. and didn't seem to be getting beat up while doing it.
Seems to me that the original bottom designs work alot better then the new ones. I don't think I've been for a ride in a new boat in this same 20 - 21' size range that has really impressed me. The Shockwave 22LX (I think that's what it's called) actually kind of impressed me, but it's ugly as sin..
Danny, instead of purchasing those molds, it might be an interesting idea to go Pop a mold off a 24 and change the deck. Those boats are tanks, and can easily be run in the ocean (alot smoother and faster then most 28's nowdays) or the river. People can also overnight in them, which opens the market up to the big blue, Mead & Powell as well as the river guys?
personally I think I'd rather have a 20, but a larger market = more boats sold so I would consider going that route?
RD

Sleek-Jet
08-17-2006, 09:46 AM
me. The Shockwave 22LX (I think that's what it's called) actually kind of impressed me, but it's ugly as sin..
RD
Carefull... talk like that will get another thread locked down... :D :D
Why not just sell bare hulls... or stage 2 with all the rigging but no power... then let the customer finish the boat???
These type of hulls appeal to the "Hot Boater" more than the ready-to-run produc-tsom guys anyway, IMHO...
If it came down to restoring my boat from the stringers up... I'd just as soon start with a virgin hull and go from there... I could use my power, interior and "stuff", but not have to worry about a 30 year old hull...

superdave013
08-17-2006, 10:03 AM
Seems to me that the original bottom designs work alot better then the new ones. I don't think I've been for a ride in a new boat in this same 20 - 21' size range that has really impressed me. The Shockwave 22LX (I think that's what it's called) actually kind of impressed me, but it's ugly as sin..
RD
ding ding ding, Houston we have a winner here.
Think about it. Last weekend at Long Beach how many new designs were out there? I'll answer that, NONE
And if someone thinks their new 20 ~ 21' boat can run in the bumps with Maximus's 1959 20' Rayson Craft or Ted Colby's 21' Rayson Craft then bring it out. The Schiada's are right there too. I drove the # 71 20' Spectra at last years enduro and was passing newer boats like they were stopped until the engine let go.
My dad has owned boats from way before I was born. I let him drive my 20' schiada and he freaked at how well it handled the chop.
They really are all that and you won't understand until you get behind the wheel. Now if you are into lots of room, banging sound systems and tribal graphics then these boats are not for you.

superdave013
08-17-2006, 10:30 AM
They want 20'ish grand to produce the parts for a v-drive.. You can get that down into the 5 grand range pretty easily I would imagine. Probably even cheaper if you played your cards right.
I agree with most of that post but this part. If you think you can do it for 5K in volume you will be in for a shock. Heck, you will have close to 3K in just the v drive before you open the box. Have you priced an Auqamet 22 or K monel prop shaft lately? Toss a good v drive prop in there and you are already at your budget. Now about all that 316 stainless cav hardware .....

phebus
08-17-2006, 10:33 AM
There is no denying the Stoker hull is a great, fast hull, and you can still buy a new one today, but how big is the market?
That is what I feel the market share would be for a new Spectra. Great boat, but I don't think you would sell enough to warrant investing a whole lot of money in.

RiverDave
08-17-2006, 10:35 AM
I agree with most of that post but this part. If you think you can do it for 5K in volume you will be in for a shock. Heck, you will have close to 3K in just the v drive before you open the box. Have you priced an Auqamet 22 or K monel prop shaft lately? Toss a good v drive prop in there and you are already at your budget. Now about all that 316 stainless cav hardware .....
Not referring to the actual V-Drive / Rudder etc... The fabbed parts. Rail Kit, Motor plates, Cav Plates, Cross members etc.. There's going to be some expensive parts in the process no doubt, but you can get most of the way there for pretty cheap.
You could waterjet entire rail kits, Cav Plates etc.. out of Sheets for pretty cheap. If you modelled it up correctly and put it all the parts 2D into an actual "sheet" and had them cut it a sheet at a time, the actual cutting wouldn't cost you hardly anything.. Material will be the greatest cost, and that depends on whether your using aluminum and or stainless. Obviously the cooler you get, the more things cost. I talked to Stan up at Schiada once and he told me the blocks of stainless they used to make those external steering peaces were around 2K just for the material.

mbrown2
08-17-2006, 10:40 AM
Seems to me that the original bottom designs work alot better then the new ones. I don't think I've been for a ride in a new boat in this same 20 - 21' size range that has really impressed me.
Think about it. Last weekend at Long Beach how many new designs were out there? I'll answer that, NONE
Both those quotes are pretty dead on.....and it makes a pretty ironic statement about rough ride capabilities for most new boats today 25ft and below....

superdave013
08-17-2006, 11:36 AM
There is no denying the Stoker hull is a great, fast hull, and you can still buy a new one today, but how big is the market?
That is what I feel the market share would be for a new Spectra. Great boat, but I don't think you would sell enough to warrant investing a whole lot of money in.
2 different boats and to different mind sets in the customers. Schiada has around a 2 year wait for a new 21' so someone is buying them (at well over 100K). I bet some of those guys would jump ship to Hogan if there were offering a nice v drive cruiser.
And of any new player in this market I think Hogan could pull it off. V drive guys are very very picky and yes, a quirky bunch too. They would take one look at what Hogan is doing now and know they are at the right place.

RiverDave
08-17-2006, 11:46 AM
There is no denying the Stoker hull is a great, fast hull, and you can still buy a new one today, but how big is the market?
That is what I feel the market share would be for a new Spectra. Great boat, but I don't think you would sell enough to warrant investing a whole lot of money in.
Pretty sure Stoker as a company isn't bigger becuase Al doesn't want it to be any bigger then it is? I don't remember who told me that, but I've heard it from a few people. He could very easily build and sell more boats..
RD

MKEELINE
08-17-2006, 03:05 PM
Niche Market....
If you are looking to fill a niche market and not get rich (maybe break even) then go for it..
I think a lot of folks will come on these boards and say yes for a various reasons but when it comes to actually parting with money to buy one, I doubt it will happen......For them it sounds like a great idea when someone else is doing it.
The v drive boat guys are not swallowing up copies of Coles (now being done) so I doubt they are going to be swallowing up copies of Spectra's...(since it is not Spectra doing the layup or build)
The guy that wants a Schiada or Hallet Vector or 210 wants a Hallet or Schiada and is not going to settle for copy of Spectra that may or may or may not be built the same way...better or worse and will have questionable resale value....this buyer is not necessarily price centric but looking at the whole picture:
How long till this project gets off the ground and when do I get a boat...
How much will truly cost since the rigging will take a while and be done from scratch..
How will resale be for a revived Spectra...
I have it in my heart to have a Schiada...and I know I am going to pay a pretty penny for it.
To do the Sprectra with the engine I want...is going to be approx 10-12K for the boat no interior/rigging, 50K for the engine, 3-4K for interior, and who knows for guages and rigging...maybe 10K-15K....so for 70-75K I am into a no name new boat for maybe half as much as a Schiada....well I can find a used newer Schiada or Hallet for right around the same price and sell it for the same tomorrow as opposed to taking a depreciation hit on this boat...
I am probably going to go with the Schiada or Hallett....just my .02.
If you are ok with niche...go for it!
Who's doing the Cole?

superdave013
08-17-2006, 03:17 PM
Who's doing the Cole?
3 different guys. all post in the v drive forum.
Two TR2 molds and a TR4 mold are around

RiverDave
08-17-2006, 03:59 PM
3 different guys. all post in the v drive forum.
Two TR2 molds and a TR4 mold are around
Those are drag flats right? Kind of a different market?
Pretty sure if you found somebody to start laying up the 20's - 21's as well as the old 250 you'd have a bunch of buyers. The 250 was bad ass.. Hauled ass as well.
RD

BADBLOWN572
08-17-2006, 04:42 PM
Looks like this thing just might go. Not 100% sure yet, but it is looking promising. Initial pricing should be right at $15K for a blank hull with either a carpeted floor (IO/Jet) or a flow coated floor (V-drive). If it happens, we would also be able to provide all of the hardware for an additional cost. Still in the planning stages, but it is looking promising. :)

Tequila-John
08-17-2006, 04:45 PM
Looks like this thing just might go. Not 100% sure yet, but it is looking promising. Initial pricing should be right at $15K for a blank hull with either a carpeted floor (IO/Jet) or a flow coated floor (V-drive). If it happens, we would also be able to provide all of the hardware for an additional cost. Still in the planning stages, but it is looking promising. :)
Nice Danny. How goes it bud

MKEELINE
08-18-2006, 09:15 AM
3 different guys. all post in the v drive forum.
Two TR2 molds and a TR4 mold are around
I knew about the flat molds. I was thinking about the 20'er, like John(J540) has or the 22'er. I've always dug the Nighthawk and Superhawk hulls, but have only seen a few setup as v drives.