Saltwater pool ???

[phebus]

I'm getting bids on a pool out here in Havasu, and want a saltwater system, but one of the builders I talked to the other day said that saltwater systems are great in other areas, but here in Havasu the total disolved solids in the water is so high, that saltwater systems don't work well here. He is the only builder to say that I should pass on a saltwater system.
Roz, Bling, anyone know???

[dirty old man]

He may be on to something there. High tds (total dissolved solids) can be a real problem. check it out

[Tequila-John]

I'm getting bids on a pool out here in Havasu, and want a saltwater system, but one of the builders I talked to the other day said that saltwater systems are great in other areas, but here in Havasu the total disolved solids in the water is so high, that saltwater systems don't work well here. He is the only builder to say that I should pass on a saltwater system.
Roz, Bling, anyone know???
Not sure if thats true bud. Most of my neighbors here have salt and have not complainted about it. Normally Havasu is 2-5 degree's hotter then where i am in Gilbert

[hyevon]

I have a salt water system in my Rancho Mirage house for two years now, and no problems what so ever

[blown65]

What is your TDS level? Call a water treatment dealer and see what they say the number is for water around there.

[Pheelin Phroggy]

We have a salt water pool in Hesperia, near Victorville, best thing we ever did, we also just sold our partnership in a pool maintenance company and have never heard of that, the nice salt chlorination systems allow adjustment of chlorine generated (including super shock of needed). We have a very high concentration of metals and are about 5 degress in summer temps below you out there where we are and it does not effect the performance of the system. We lose about 100lbs of salt every 3 months through evaporation and spillage (swimming), thats about 12 bucks worth. Critical things are conditioner to maintain the chlorine generated and ensure you or your pool guy brushes the tile weekly, salt will leave a nice salt ring around your pool if you dont.
Our .2 cents worth

[JB in so cal]

Phebus,
youmove away from the ocean, all the way to havasu; and now you want salt water to swim in!
You were in one too many smoky rooms :rolleyes:
btw. beautiful day out here, today :rollside:

[NOTALENT]

My buddy has the setup in his house in havasu...they live there year round...they absolutley love the system. I t dispenses salt like every hour or something...has suction cups at the bottom to do the cleaning..I think its awesome...and you dont smell like chlorine.

[Tequila-John]

My buddy has the setup in his house in havasu...they live there year round...they absolutley love the system. I t dispenses salt like every hour or something...has suction cups at the bottom to do the cleaning..I think its awesome...and you dont smell like chlorine.
Those suction cups are pop ups bud.

[XTRM22]

I talked to two different pool guys who gave me the same story, so I went with the D.E. filter and pop up cleaners. There are some other possible issues with the salt system, including hi salt content if you don't drain the pool once a year, and in the real heat, occasionally the salt system will shut down and you end up adding chlorine anyway. So far my pool never smells of chlorine, and the content is low enough that the dogs drink out of it with no ill effects. Jerry at Southwest has been building and servicing pools here in Havasu about the longest, give him a call their doing our maintenance right now.
Chuck

[lakewake]

You do have a higher TDS do to the increased level of hardness in your water compared to so Ca. The only problem that poses is, the chlorine generation cell picks up more of the calcium on the blades inside the cell on many brands. You are supposed to maintain the cell every 90 days by dipping it in a 5 to 1 dilution of Muratic acid 1 gal to 4 gal of water. The acid strips the calcium off of the cell and lets it bond the salt and pool acid to make a chloride which now replaces chlorine. Many new models have non metalic cells that allow for lower maint. time and cost. You can always use the epoxy base pebble tech or resin lined pool instead of plaster and then you can use soft water in the pool. Don't fill a plaster pool with soft water. It will aggressively go after the calcium and lime that make the plaster hard and you will have big problems in a few years.The only system that would fill a pool with soft water is a Kinetico. It has no capacity to it's softening capabilities.

[phebus]

One of the companies I am dealing with, said the reason people have problems with TDS and saltwater systems, is that they spec the saltwater system to the gallonage of the pool (i.e., a 15k gal rated system for a 13k gal pool). They stated with the TDS here in Havasu, that you should go with a 40k gal rated system for a 13k gal pool.
Make sense?

[KoolPop]

I'm getting bids on a pool out here in Havasu, and want a saltwater system, but one of the builders I talked to the other day said that saltwater systems are great in other areas, but here in Havasu the total disolved solids in the water is so high, that saltwater systems don't work well here. He is the only builder to say that I should pass on a saltwater system.
Roz, Bling, anyone know???
We have a salt water system here in Havasu, and we love it, we also are using an aqua-zerv system which drains off a little water all the time the pump is on, although it would not work draining into plants with salt water. Some of the builders are afraid to service salt water pools out here for some reason. We love ours and Mojave county pools are not afraid of them. I did alot of research on the systems and recommend a system called Resilience salt chlorinator. It is sold by the Heloicoil dealer out here. His name is Danny Stifle, and his cell # is (928)486-4440.

[Throttle]

One of the companies I am dealing with, said the reason people have problems with TDS and saltwater systems, is that they spec the saltwater system to the gallonage of the pool (i.e., a 15k gal rated system for a 13k gal pool). They stated with the TDS here in Havasu, that you should go with a 40k gal rated system for a 13k gal pool.
Make sense?
no, wtf are doin now?

[ROZ]

You are supposed to maintain the cell every 90 days by dipping it in a 5 to 1 dilution of Muratic acid 1 gal to 4 gal of water. The acid strips the calcium off of the cell and lets it bond the salt and pool acid to make a chloride which now replaces chlorine. Many new models have non metalic cells that allow for lower maint. time and cost. You can always use the epoxy base pebble tech or resin lined pool instead of plaster and then you can use soft water in the pool. Don't fill a plaster pool with soft water. It will aggressively go after the calcium and lime that make the plaster hard and you will have big problems in a few years.The only system that would fill a pool with soft water is a Kinetico. It has no capacity to it's softening capabilities.
Spoken like a pool guy, are you one?
Phebus,
Wierd.. It seems that there wouldn't be any pools out there if the TDS levels were off the chart.. :D
As long as the pool is properly maintained, you will have no problem... As for why a pool company won't service a salt system pool, I have no idea... They're loosing out on money...
While I do the tile as part of my service, there are a lot of pool guys who do not. So make wure you choose one that will scrub your tile line... It won't be the end all to a grungy water line, but it will definitely help :)

[NOTALENT]

Those suction cups are pop ups bud.
Thats what I meant...they suck the dirt and debris through..my bad :p

[Parker Dreamin]

My buddy has the setup in his house in havasu...they live there year round...they absolutley love the system. I t dispenses salt like every hour or something...has suction cups at the bottom to do the cleaning..I think its awesome...and you dont smell like chlorine.
dont stick your thing in those suction cups bud....

[NOTALENT]

dont stick your thing in those suction cups bud....
Haha....dont need to...haha....you going to photos tommorow??

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Saltwater is all good except I know of no kids that like swimming in it over fresh water.
Most kids pass.
We had to wash our cloths, skivvies, uniforms and shower in salt water when I was in the Marines.
Nothing really dried,, always damp and sticky.
I can't imaging taking a dip in the salt pool to cool off,, then laying there and the salty dry sticky itch hits your entire body as ya dry in the sun.
So imagin' yourself: Ya jump in, then lay on the lounger to dry off in the sun,, the salt forms on your bod like the dry-wet itch after sex before ya rinse off your root,,, but all over your body instead of just your tally whacker.
Running a freshwater pool is far more refreshing to use, and ain't that a BFD to maintain.
Correct PH + minimum chlorine & occasional shock,,,
Ya wanna swim in salt or fresh water???
I mean,, come on.

[riverracerx]

saltwater pool?

[DILLIGAF]

I'm getting bids on a pool out here in Havasu, and want a saltwater system, but one of the builders I talked to the other day said that saltwater systems are great in other areas, but here in Havasu the total disolved solids in the water is so high, that saltwater systems don't work well here. He is the only builder to say that I should pass on a saltwater system.
Roz, Bling, anyone know???
I have a salt water pool here in BH and have no problems at all. I love the salt water pool. Easy on the skin, less evaporation and makes its own clohrine thru some electrical plate thing.

[Devil's Advocate]

...and makes its own clohrine thru some electrical plate thing.
It sounds so technical.. :D

[lakewake]

Spoken like a pool guy, are you one?
Phebus,
Wierd.. It seems that there wouldn't be any pools out there if the TDS levels were off the chart.. :D
As long as the pool is properly maintained, you will have no problem... As for why a pool company won't service a salt system pool, I have no idea... They're loosing out on money...
While I do the tile as part of my service, there are a lot of pool guys who do not. So make wure you choose one that will scrub your tile line... It won't be the end all to a grungy water line, but it will definitely help :)
Hey Roz...Not a pool man. I had a solar pool heating company with an old business partner here on ***boat. We sold the Goldline Aqua Rite system. I have been in commercial and residential water treatment since 94 so am a bit experienced in water chemistry. I agree all the systems will fair well if maintained. A lot of "Pool Men" are just vacuum and chemical jockies. Many don't yet understand the Chlorine generators and speak ill of them.

[Parker Dreamin]

you can go to the ocean if you want saltwater..... come on.

[Tequila-John]

you can go to the ocean if you want saltwater..... come on.
Thats a long way Bud///

[Parker Dreamin]

Thats a long way Bud///
oh sorry....... then go for a golf cart run with your neighbor...... vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..i would love too...

[Tequila-John]

oh sorry....... then go for a golf cart run with your neighbor...... vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..i would love too...
EWWWW good 1 bud.

[lakewake]

Saltwater is all good except I know of no kids that like swimming in it over fresh water.
Most kids pass.
We had to wash our cloths, skivvies, uniforms and shower in salt water when I was in the Marines.
Nothing really dried,, always damp and sticky.
I can't imaging taking a dip in the salt pool to cool off,, then laying there and the salty dry sticky itch hits your entire body as ya dry in the sun.
So imagin' yourself: Ya jump in, then lay on the lounger to dry off in the sun,, the salt forms on your bod like the dry-wet itch after sex before ya rinse off your root,,, but all over your body instead of just your tally whacker.
Running a freshwater pool is far more refreshing to use, and ain't that a BFD to maintain.
Correct PH + minimum chlorine & occasional shock,,,
Ya wanna swim in salt or fresh water???
I mean,, come on.
Big misconception about the "Salt Water Pools". The water is salinated to 2800 to 3500 parts per million. About 600 pounds per 40,000 gal pool at start up. The salt content is now more closly assimilated to the same salt level in our bodies. That is why the red eye and burn is a lot less. The salt and the muratic acid are bonded to make a chloride in the chlorine generating cell. It heads out in the return water stream. When it hits algae or bacteria it kills it and breaks down. On the way back through the cell the two get married up again and the process continues. The water is still a fresh water system but without the chlorine.Chlorine is a known cancer causing agent and will be outlawed eventually. The feds are positioning the states to pressure the water treatment districts to move towards elimination of chlorine in all water supplies. Most water districts in so Ca are going to be compliant by 2008-2009 by replacing chlorine and ammonia disinfection with Ultra Violet and ozonation disinfection.

[Parker Dreamin]

EWWWW good 1 bud.
i sure would be bud.. possible green ciggie or what.....

[Tequila-John]

i sure would be bud.. possible green ciggie or what.....
Been a while u?

[Parker Dreamin]

Been a while u?
way to long...
2nite possible one, then a hot tub...weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Tequila-John]

way to long...
2nite possible one, then a hot tub...weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
AHHHHH so Cute

[Parker Dreamin]

AHHHHH so Cute
sollo bud... wife is sleeping........

[Tequila-John]

sollo bud... wife is sleeping........
Dont get a hand burn bud!!

[SHOTKALLIN]

Salt is cheaper to buy than chlorine. I've had both and I love my salt water pool.

[Parker Dreamin]

Dont get a hand burn bud!!
possible wishkey cock bud

[Tequila-John]

possible wishkey cock bud
DING!

[Parker Dreamin]

DING!
double ding ding

[Outnumbered]

I'm getting bids on a pool out here in Havasu, and want a saltwater system, but one of the builders I talked to the other day said that saltwater systems are great in other areas, but here in Havasu the total disolved solids in the water is so high, that saltwater systems don't work well here. He is the only builder to say that I should pass on a saltwater system.
Roz, Bling, anyone know???
I just went through this TDS thing. Here is the main issue with the high TDS: It's so damn hot and dry here that the water evaporates at a very high rate. The more that evaporates the higher the TDS, regardless of salt or standard chlorinization. You WILL have to completely drain your pool every 18 to 24 months to keep the TDS and stabilizer levels in check with either system. Once they get too high, the pool just eats chlorine as quick as you can feed it in. Lots of peeps run salt systems here with success. I run a standard chlorine/sand filter and find it is very easy and cheap to maintain. But, I also have a high quality auto cleaner (pop-ups). Our water is similar hardness to Havasu as far as I know.
If I was on a budget and had to choose between a salt system or a good auto cleaner I would get the cleaner. Our pool is always clean and no hoses or creepy-crawly dealio to mess with. I never vacuum the pool and never have dirt or leaves in it unless its right after a storm. I run a low chlorine level and have never had an algea problem even with 90+ degree water. I think the cleaner helps with this because the pool is always crystal-clear. But, I have heard that a cheap or poorly installed auto cleaner won't work and can be a pain in the ass.
Hope this helps.

[hava life]

We have the saltwater system and I love it. You can hardly taste the salt and it is not hard on the skin like a chlorine pool. I add acid once a week and salt about one bag in 3 to 4 months deppending on use. I clean the salt system about once a month, that only takes a few minutes. Once a month I take a water sample in to have a pro check it. In the winter I put it on winter mode and that is it. I've had a chlorine pool here and it was a lot of maintance, if you don't live here you have to watch your pool maintance company, not all are honest. Don't slam me I am just saying this from experience, there is nothing worse then paying a service and coming out on a week vacation to your home and having a green pool. In my opinion I will not go back to a chlorine pool.

[mickeyfinn]

Big misconception about the "Salt Water Pools". The water is salinated to 2800 to 3500 parts per million. About 600 pounds per 40,000 gal pool at start up. The salt content is now more closly assimilated to the same salt level in our bodies. That is why the red eye and burn is a lot less. The salt and the muratic acid are bonded to make a chloride in the chlorine generating cell. It heads out in the return water stream. When it hits algae or bacteria it kills it and breaks down. On the way back through the cell the two get married up again and the process continues. The water is still a fresh water system but without the chlorine.Chlorine is a known cancer causing agent and will be outlawed eventually. The feds are positioning the states to pressure the water treatment districts to move towards elimination of chlorine in all water supplies. Most water districts in so Ca are going to be compliant by 2008-2009 by replacing chlorine and ammonia disinfection with Ultra Violet and ozonation disinfection.
Close, the way the system works is by taking water with a 2500-3500ppm salt content (nacl) and running it between an anode and cathode. DC current is applied to these elements allowing the current to flow through the nacl pool water. This converts the nacl in part to cl2 which immediately converts to Hypochlorous acid. This is the actual disinfection agent in salt or chlorine pool systems. Truthfully they are all chlorine pools. The difference is whether you add chlorine or salt. High TDS, among other things can cause the cells to short out due to excessive buil-up. This is not a problem if you increase the frequency of acid dipping. You will always get build-up, it only becomes a problem if it can arc or dead short from anode to cathode. Oceans are about 35,000ppm salt. The salt water pools feel better, cost less time and money to operate.

[lakewake]

Close, the way the system works is by taking water with a 2500-3500ppm salt content (nacl) and running it between an anode and cathode. DC current is applied to these elements allowing the current to flow through the nacl pool water. This converts the nacl in part to cl2 which immediately converts to Hypochlorous acid. This is the actual disinfection agent in salt or chlorine pool systems. Truthfully they are all chlorine pools. The difference is whether you add chlorine or salt. High TDS, among other things can cause the cells to short out due to excessive buil-up. This is not a problem if you increase the frequency of acid dipping. You will always get build-up, it only becomes a problem if it can arc or dead short from anode to cathode. Oceans are about 35,000ppm salt. The salt water pools feel better, cost less time and money to operate.
Being a salesman myself and not an engineer I try and keep it plain and simple so all can follow, but I'll play along.
How it all works.
The electronic chlorinators generate chlorine by passing low voltage electrical current through the pool water and converting the chloride ions from salt into chlorine. When salt is added to the swimming pool, it immediately dissociates to form sodium and chloride ions:
NaClNa+ + Cl-
Inside the Cell there are a series of titanium/ruthenium plates that are connected to the low voltage power source in the electronics unit.
Electrical current flow is denoted at the movement of electrons (e- ) which start at the negative terminal of the power supply and flow through the pool water and return to the power supply at the positive terminal. The number of electrons leaving from, and returning to, the power supply is always the same. At the anode (connected to positive voltage terminal) the following reaction occurs:
2 Cl-Cl2 (gas) + 2e-
At the cathode (connected to negative voltage terminal) the following reaction occurs:
2 H2O + 2e-H2 (gas) + 2 OH-
The hydrogen gas is not soluble in water and so it is carried along with the water flow into the pool. Sometimes, it is possible to actually see the tiny hydrogen bubbles coming out of the return jets. At the other electrode, the chlorine gas is highly soluble in water and reacts with the water as follows:
Cl2 + H2OHOCl + HCl
The HOCl is known as hypochlorous acid and is the primary sanitizer in the swimming pool. Whenever chlorine is introduced into the swimming pool, whether it be by liquid bleach, granular chlorine, gas chlorine, di- or tri-chlor tablets, the end result is always hypochlorous acid.
The above reactions tend to cause the pH of the pool to drift slightly higher. The hydroxide ions generated at the cathode are highly basic. This is countered by the chlorine reaction with water that generates hypochlorous acid (a weak acid) and hydrochloric acid (a strong acid).
Depending on the pH of the pool water, a varying amount of the hypochlorous acid will dissociate to form hypo chlorite ions. While both forms act as a sanitizer for the pool, tests have shown that the hypochlorous acid is up to 10 times more effective than the same concentration of hypochlorite ions.
HOClH+ + OCl-
Lower pH levels will increase the amount of hypochlorous acid, higher pH levels will increase the amount of hypochlorite ions. It is important to keep the pool pH in the range of 7.2 to 7.8.
The function of hypochlorous acid in the pool is two fold: first it will kill algae and bacteria and secondly, it acts as an oxidizer to remove the dead material from the pool. During the oxidation process, the hypochlorous acid reverts to water and salt (Cl-).

[hava life]

Good! now i know how it works :rollside: and all this time i thought it was just turn the dial to get a stronger chlorine reading.

[ROZ]

on why a pool builder won't install a salt system in his pools... Waranty work.. We are finding that some heater mfg's void the warranty on pools with salt water systems...

[DRMCAT]

Rick,
Whatever you do, do not get sucked into the Ozone system. It works like crap. Both of my brothers have the saltwater system and they have had "O" problems. I will definately go with it in my next pool. My .02

[phebus]

You know, I think I'll just fill it with beer, and kill two birds with one stone :D

[blackcloud75]

Rick,
PM Seasday here on the boards, He is in the Industry and knows some people out there.....
Cory

[Riverkid]

We have a Goldline Aqua Rite. It was just replaced last Fri under warranty (incorrectly reading salt PPM). After the next timer cycle, the Jandy Aqualink didn't even recognize the Aqua Rite was installed (no salt display, output level, ability to set levels, etc). Cell was not generating. I unplugged the cell and then plugged it back in. It's now back up and generating, but it is reporting to the Aqualink that it is a Naturesoft system???
Any feedback here would be much appreciated. Thanks. :)

[DILLIGAF]

It sounds so technical.. :D
DA---Would you really rather read this? lol
Good explanation lakewake.
Being a salesman myself and not an engineer I try and keep it plain and simple so all can follow, but I'll play along.
How it all works.
The electronic chlorinators generate chlorine by passing low voltage electrical current through the pool water and converting the chloride ions from salt into chlorine. When salt is added to the swimming pool, it immediately dissociates to form sodium and chloride ions:
NaClNa+ + Cl-
Inside the Cell there are a series of titanium/ruthenium plates that are connected to the low voltage power source in the electronics unit.
Electrical current flow is denoted at the movement of electrons (e- ) which start at the negative terminal of the power supply and flow through the pool water and return to the power supply at the positive terminal. The number of electrons leaving from, and returning to, the power supply is always the same. At the anode (connected to positive voltage terminal) the following reaction occurs:
2 Cl-Cl2 (gas) + 2e-
At the cathode (connected to negative voltage terminal) the following reaction occurs:
2 H2O + 2e-H2 (gas) + 2 OH-
The hydrogen gas is not soluble in water and so it is carried along with the water flow into the pool. Sometimes, it is possible to actually see the tiny hydrogen bubbles coming out of the return jets. At the other electrode, the chlorine gas is highly soluble in water and reacts with the water as follows:
Cl2 + H2OHOCl + HCl
The HOCl is known as hypochlorous acid and is the primary sanitizer in the swimming pool. Whenever chlorine is introduced into the swimming pool, whether it be by liquid bleach, granular chlorine, gas chlorine, di- or tri-chlor tablets, the end result is always hypochlorous acid.
The above reactions tend to cause the pH of the pool to drift slightly higher. The hydroxide ions generated at the cathode are highly basic. This is countered by the chlorine reaction with water that generates hypochlorous acid (a weak acid) and hydrochloric acid (a strong acid).
Depending on the pH of the pool water, a varying amount of the hypochlorous acid will dissociate to form hypo chlorite ions. While both forms act as a sanitizer for the pool, tests have shown that the hypochlorous acid is up to 10 times more effective than the same concentration of hypochlorite ions.
HOClH+ + OCl-
Lower pH levels will increase the amount of hypochlorous acid, higher pH levels will increase the amount of hypochlorite ions. It is important to keep the pool pH in the range of 7.2 to 7.8.
The function of hypochlorous acid in the pool is two fold: first it will kill algae and bacteria and secondly, it acts as an oxidizer to remove the dead material from the pool. During the oxidation process, the hypochlorous acid reverts to water and salt (Cl-).