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Excessive Force
08-20-2006, 04:30 PM
Anyone here ever built on their property without a permit. Friend of mine found out a few days ago that he is maxed out on what the city sees as sufficient space to his house. He wants to add just one small 10x20 room to the back of his house. City says no way. Cant afford a bigger house. Hes contemplating bout doing it without the permit. Any downfalls to this route? Any advice will be appreciated....thx....EF

DMOORE
08-20-2006, 04:35 PM
If they find out during construction thet could force him to remove it.
Darrell.

TBONE1904
08-20-2006, 04:38 PM
I have added on without permits allot of time in San Diego, as I am selling here are the only downfalls I have seen:
1. While building can not make it obvious.
2. When you sell will not be able to include the unpermitted square footage.
3. Get the hammer out and GIT-R-DONE!!!!!!

buzzaro
08-20-2006, 04:41 PM
If they find out during construction thet could force him to remove it.
Darrell.
I think they can make him remove it any time they find out, even after its done. Also there could be some legal repurcussions down the road if he were to sell the house, the new owner could sue him if anything were to happen in the new construction built w/o a permit which is taken as not being to code.

Moneypitt
08-20-2006, 04:42 PM
Most of the non permited additions are caught up in the pre sale inspection. At that time the addition would have to be removed prior to close of escrow. If your friend wants the addition anyway, try permiting it as an "enclosed patio", that wording has been approved when actual room additions were denied. I'm sure we have some real estate people here that can add some insight as to the requirements "if and when" the property is ever put up for sale with un permited additions.........MP

burtandnancy
08-20-2006, 04:59 PM
All of the above plus a possible lien when you try to sell...

Badger301
08-20-2006, 05:03 PM
Also keep in mind the neighbors...problem neighbors can and will call the city jeapordizing (sp) the whole project.

RitcheyRch
08-20-2006, 05:17 PM
Dont think is worth the hassle.

bkplesh
08-20-2006, 05:22 PM
Most of the non permited additions are caught up in the pre sale inspection. At that time the addition would have to be removed prior to close of escrow. If your friend wants the addition anyway, try permiting it as an "enclosed patio", that wording has been approved when actual room additions were denied. I'm sure we have some real estate people here that can add some insight as to the requirements "if and when" the property is ever put up for sale with un permited additions.........MPI build my by first getting a permit for a enclosed patio.Then when it was done and all sign off.Then I finished the rest of the room.

Fire Angler
08-20-2006, 05:25 PM
I build my by first getting a permit for a enclosed patio.Then when it was done and all sign off.Then I finished the rest of the room.
Save yourself all of the trouble, if they'll give you a permit to do a patio enclosure, do it.

squirt'nmyload
08-20-2006, 05:34 PM
Also keep in mind the neighbors...problem neighbors can and will call the city jeapordizing (sp) the whole project.
thats what i was thinking

HocusPocus
08-20-2006, 05:39 PM
i would never build anything without a permit.. why waste the time on something you may have to take down one day.

Goober
08-20-2006, 05:55 PM
also you might need to have the wiring inspected by the city.

uvindex
08-20-2006, 06:36 PM
Besides the stuff mentioned above... When you go to sell, one of the questions on the seller disclosure is something like, "Have any improvements been done without a permit?" so you'll either have to lie on the form (thus opening yourself up to who-knows-what kind of legal repercussions from the buyer) or spill the beans then.

lakewake
08-20-2006, 06:52 PM
Put a second story room on and knock a wall out downstairs to ajoin two rooms to get your extra 200 SF.

Howie Feltersnatch
08-20-2006, 07:00 PM
One of my old neighbors built a very nice awning (steel framed, steel roofed, powder coated, etc) for their driveway in the back of their house so they coud park their cars in the driveway without worrying about damage from hail, sun, birds, etc. A city inspector came by one day on an unrelated job in the area, spotted it, reported them for having a structure too close to the city easment (the alley in this case) and they had to tear the whole thing down. BS in my opinion but if the gov't officials didn't keep themselves busy harassing the taxpayers their jobs might be eliminated and that would be a bad thing right? right? anybody? right....

YeLLowBoaT
08-20-2006, 07:43 PM
10x20 is not exactly a small room when your trying to sneak something under the radar. I do alot of stuff with getting a permit( in sac you have to get a permit for a water heater, $170.... yeah I got the permit....it seems like you need to get a permit if you do anything.) There are things you can get aways with, this is not one of them. not to far from my dads house a guy built something like that years ago. He recently took out a huge 2nd then split. The county made the bank knock down all but 2 walls.( the ended up just knocking it all down.) From what the contractor was telling me, the bank is in t he hole about 500k in loans and anohter 200k in building a new house. I guess the bank did the math, if they built a new house they would only lose like 200k rather then 400k if they sold the lot.

Excessive Force
08-21-2006, 02:50 PM
thanks for the advice fellas! Looks to me its not worth all the hassle to have to possibly tear it all down especially as how he planned on it tying into the gable roof. FOCKIN CALIFORNIA!!!!!!

HM
08-21-2006, 03:41 PM
Has he considered filing for a variance?

WET HULL
08-21-2006, 04:09 PM
I am a contractor in Cali. If you dont want the permits because of cost then I would take very, very detailed photos the entire way through the build process. Pics of the forms for the footing with a tape measure to show the size. All the rouphed in items and so forth. Every thing you do take a picture no matter what!!!!!Build it to code and don't cut corners. In some cases you are able to go back and get the permits if you can prove that it was built to code. You can pull the codes off of the cslb website and follow them. If you do get a permit still take very good pics, because some inspectors are a pain in the arse. Good Luck.

YeLLowBoaT
08-21-2006, 05:37 PM
I am a contractor in Cali. If you dont want the permits because of cost then I would take very, very detailed photos the entire way through the build process. Pics of the forms for the footing with a tape measure to show the size. All the rouphed in items and so forth. Every thing you do take a picture no matter what!!!!!Build it to code and don't cut corners. In some cases you are able to go back and get the permits if you can prove that it was built to code. You can pull the codes off of the cslb website and follow them. If you do get a permit still take very good pics, because some inspectors are a pain in the arse. Good Luck.
he can't get the permit do to spacing issue. So even if he did all that, they would still make him tear it all down even if it was perfect.

Mandelon
08-21-2006, 06:01 PM
Bootleg rooms are done all the time. If he is already at the max FAR (Floor Area Ratio) for his lot in his zoned area, he can try to get a variance. FAR is usually 60% coverage of the lot. Includes garage. A variance application typically costs a couple grand to get processed and if denied, you don't get a refund.
Around here you can put up a 300 sf patio cover without a permit. Over time you can enclose it without freaking out the neighbors. But it still isn't legal. Depending on the particulars you can maybe get a permit to enclose it. But the building dept is pretty hip to folks trying to sneak around the rules.
If you build it and get caught they will open a file on you, and keep checking periodically to see if you've done anything about it. Often times they seem to just go away. If a neighbor calls then problems have a way of being resolved NOT in your favor.
You can sell a property without permitted improvements, that happens every day. If the buyer doesn't want it, then they won't buy it. The square footage of unpermitted portions would typically not be included in the appraised value of the home. But the lender wouldn't not lend on it. The issue is disclosed and the buyers are aware that they may have to take it down someday....its a chance they willingly take.
Houses like that can be a moneymaker too. About 8 years ago I bought a house that had a bunch of unpermitted issues for $99,000. I pulled a couple over the counter permits for electrical and plumbing, got the city inspectors to sign off on it and sold the house after we remodeled for $215,000. Of course now its probably worth $750,000 :rolleyes:

Excessive Force
08-22-2006, 02:44 PM
Bootleg rooms are done all the time. If he is already at the max FAR (Floor Area Ratio) for his lot in his zoned area, he can try to get a variance. FAR is usually 60% coverage of the lot. Includes garage. A variance application typically costs a couple grand to get processed and if denied, you don't get a refund.
FAR here is 30% !!! Its BS, thats why he is thinking about doing it on the DL. A variance here i think is a couple hundred bux only. When he talked to a jr. inspector he said it wasnt worth his time and money cuz he claims they are real strict.

Excessive Force
08-22-2006, 02:45 PM
he can't get the permit do to spacing issue. So even if he did all that, they would still make him tear it all down even if it was perfect.
That is the case here. re permit

3 daytona`s
08-22-2006, 02:50 PM
My biggest concern here is if and when they discover this, I would think $hit would hit the fan since they already denied it and he went ahead anyway.

YeLLowBoaT
08-22-2006, 08:04 PM
FAR here is 30% !!! Its BS, thats why he is thinking about doing it on the DL. A variance here i think is a couple hundred bux only. When he talked to a jr. inspector he said it wasnt worth his time and money cuz he claims they are real strict.
Where I live he would be right. I know clients that have tried to bump stuff out a couple of feet so that they could put in a ADA complaint bathroom and were denied. To get a variance you ether have to greese a palm or know some 1.
Or you could be like Bob Vila( remember him from "This old house") he built a addition to his house. Not only was he violating spacing, but it was also not up to code... They made him tear it all down + alot of fines.

Trailer Park Casanova
08-22-2006, 10:33 PM
It could very well void any claim on the homeowners insurance, even the permitted sections.
I'm a CA licensed contractor, I'd never bootleg anything if for reason, insurance sakes.
Lots of outs in policies for just this very thing.