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Chipster27
08-28-2006, 04:04 PM
What's your opinion?
On a 24 foot vee hull - say an Essex Valor - is a 525 too much motor for that boat? Is it useless to put a 525 in a 24 foot boat? Not knowing much about hull design etc...would the 525 create any "drivability" issues? Would a 496HO be better?
So now step to a little bigger boat, say 26/27 footer. Same configuration vee hull; for example a Lavey Nu Era 26. Is a 496 HO too small, would a 525 be the right size? Would a 600 or Ilmor 625 be the best choice?

ChumpChange
08-28-2006, 04:08 PM
I know that Dana slapped a 525 in one of their 23's. The boat ran insane fast for a boat that size. Their standard is the 496.
I don't think there would be driveability issues as long as you only put the throttle down when conditions were accomodating. It's about the driver behind the wheel when ample power is available.
Where you going to do most of your boating? Bigger is always better.

talbert450r
08-28-2006, 04:11 PM
Im going with the 496 mag in my new 24 Stealth. I have heard the 496 HO is not worth the money, you only get a few mph's. I think the 496 mag would be enough, but you do realize you will never have enough power. Its a mans never ending search for more power. :rollside:

Devil's Advocate
08-28-2006, 04:13 PM
umm...hmmm....I'd go with the pretty blue one! :D :rolleyes:

Beer-30
08-28-2006, 04:21 PM
Im going with the 496 mag in my new 24 Stealth. I have heard the 496 HO is not worth the money, you only get a few mph's. I think the 496 mag would be enough, but you do realize you will never have enough power. Its a mans never ending search for more power. :rollside:
Oh, I think you will end up eating those words. Multiple peeps here that have Mag are always looking to bring it up to HO standards. Now, the HO is not some super-motor that works great in every single boat for every single person. The extra torque, more than the fitty HP, moves boats around better.
To answer the man's question, I have a 30-footer with an HO. It moves the boat, 8 people, 3 ice chest, gear, and full fuel just fine for me. Plus, I can go an average weekend and not fill up. I can launch at Windsor, hang in the Channel. Fire up and head to Topock at 40-45. Come back to Channel. Finish the day. Launch next day. Hang in Channel. Run over to Copper. Run WFO to Springs. Eat. Run WFO back to Channel - and still not put gas in. Mind you, it's down to 1/4 in each tank, but still goin.
Now, would I love to have a 525? Sure! Do I NEED it? No. The boat will do 60 with a full load. That pretty respectable for a 7500lb single.
If I were buying a brand new boat, I would still get an HO. 525s are excellent motors, built with some very nice components. They are just a little overpriced, though. One could rebuild an HO to 525 specs for less money - and have it whatever color and specs YOU want.

Chipster27
08-28-2006, 04:21 PM
....but you do realize you will never have enough power. Its a mans never ending search for more power. :rollside:
I saw the pics of your boat, very nice!
Belive me, I know the power thing. I've bought 3 versions of the same car in the past 5 years. Love the car, but always want more power!! My dirt bike is a 525 and my quad is a 700, street bikes were always liter bikes. Obvoisuly you have to have some disciplin between your ears and the throttle. Knock on wood, no tickets in almost 8 years.
Most of my boating will be from Needles to Parker, possibly Mead/Powell and Mojave once in a while. That's why I'm leaning towards a 26. I was with my neighbor in his 21 Hallett this weekend and it struggles in the chop. Runs great in light chop and glass. I'm just afraid that a 24 might be enough to cut through the soup on Havasu or Topoc. But if I go with a vee in a 26 with a 525 I'm somewhere in the $120k range. Not a decision I'll be making in the near future so I have some time to ponder all these silly questions.
Thanks everyone.

INSman
08-28-2006, 04:22 PM
In a 26 footer or more, a 496HO will be boring and you will be wishing you had at least a 525 if not more. :cool:

Chipster27
08-28-2006, 04:22 PM
umm...hmmm....I'd go with the pretty blue one! :D :rolleyes:
I'll leave the colors and design to my wife...I have no creativity. An all white boat with a blue stripe and the word BOAT would work for me....

Chipster27
08-28-2006, 04:26 PM
In a 26 footer or more, a 496HO will be boring and you will be wishing you had at least a 525 if not more. :cool:
I did talk to a guy selling a 26 Lavey. He had a 496HO with a procharger on it. Said it would run mid 70s, but wished he had done a 525.
I'd really love the Merc 600 or an Ilmor 625, but $40k for the motor plus the hardware to support it is a lot of $$$

Devil's Advocate
08-28-2006, 04:27 PM
I'll leave the colors and design to my wife...I have no creativity. An all white boat with a blue stripe and the word BOAT would work for me....
I was talking about the 525, it's a pretty blue... :p

Biglue
08-28-2006, 04:31 PM
Having the HO or bigger power will give it a higher resale value though. Something to consider.

Beer-30
08-28-2006, 04:33 PM
I did talk to a guy selling a 26 Lavey. He had a 496HO with a procharger on it. Said it would run mid 70s, but wished he had done a 525.
I'd really love the Merc 600 or an Ilmor 625, but $40k for the motor plus the hardware to support it is a lot of $$$
Ultimately, it comes down to what is fast enough for you.
My wife is fine with 60, but much more, and she would be giving me "the look". Plus, anyone on my boat is usually fine at that speed, so I personally don't need any more.
So, if faster than high 60's in a 26 footer is what you want; go more than an HO. If you want to just cruise at 45-50 and top around 67-68; go with the HO and spend the money on other upgrades that you will use more. Tabs, billet, stereo, maybe steering? Just an idea.

voodoomedman
08-28-2006, 04:39 PM
Oh, I think you will end up eating those words. Multiple peeps here that have Mag are always looking to bring it up to HO standards. Now, the HO is not some super-motor that works great in every single boat for every single person. The extra torque, more than the fitty HP, moves boats around better.
To answer the man's question, I have a 30-footer with an HO. It moves the boat, 8 people, 3 ice chest, gear, and full fuel just fine for me. Plus, I can go an average weekend and not fill up. I can launch at Windsor, hang in the Channel. Fire up and head to Topock at 40-45. Come back to Channel. Finish the day. Launch next day. Hang in Channel. Run over to Copper. Run WFO to Springs. Eat. Run WFO back to Channel - and still not put gas in. Mind you, it's down to 1/4 in each tank, but still goin.
Now, would I love to have a 525? Sure! Do I NEED it? No. The boat will do 60 with a full load. That pretty respectable for a 7500lb single.
If I were buying a brand new boat, I would still get an HO. 525s are excellent motors, built with some very nice components. They are just a little overpriced, though. One could rebuild an HO to 525 specs for less money - and have it whatever color and specs YOU want.
I don't think he will end up eating his words at all. It depends on the hull. With bigger boats you need all the extra you can get and want the HO. The 24 Stealth pops out of the hole quickly and accelerates quickly and really the only thing having the HO will do is give it maybe another 2 mph in the top end. The guys at Ultra will tell you that. Kinda funny that they don't try and upsell you to make an extra couple of bucks. The Mag is all that is needed. Now in your 30 footer then heck yeah go with the HO at a bare minimum.
Now 24 foot V's and smaller with Huge power your probably asking for chine walk. There really is no need unless you want to haul a$$ in the right conditions and you are a very, very, very good driver.

superduty
08-28-2006, 04:43 PM
Chipster27 What's your opinion?
I have a friend that runs a 496 in his 21' Lavey and my feelings are that if the pilot of the boat knows what he is doing then you'll always want more. His 21 handles and performes great. I put the Blue one in my Lavey 2750 because I didn't want to be down the road with the 496 sitting in a proven boat that can handle more and had spent that much money and still didn't get exactly what I wanted. I originally thought about the 496 mainly because of funds but the same buddy with the 21' said he would kick my arss if I disrespected that boat like that. I believe his words were "lie, cheat, steal, borrow, do what ever you have to but put nothing smaller than the 525". I have no regrets. :crossx:

wsuwrhr
08-28-2006, 04:45 PM
In a 26 footer or more, a 496HO will be boring and you will be wishing you had at least a 525 if not more. :cool:
I agree, once you build it, it is really hard($$$$) to go back and repower it.
Always better to have more power than you need, rather than have less power than you want it.
Just costs more money, in gas, drives, maintainance and storage fees.
Don't forget the storage fees. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Brian

wsuwrhr
08-28-2006, 04:48 PM
I'll leave the colors and design to my wife...I have no creativity. An all white boat with a blue stripe and the word BOAT would work for me....
Merc 525's are a pearl blue, I think the HO and the 496 is black.
Brian

Beer-30
08-28-2006, 04:48 PM
I don't think he will end up eating his words at all. It depends on the hull. With bigger boats you need all the extra you can get and want the HO. The 24 Stealth pops out of the hole quickly and accelerates quickly and really the only thing having the HO will do is give it maybe another 2 mph in the top end. The guys at Ultra will tell you that. Kinda funny that they don't try and upsell you to make an extra couple of bucks. The Mag is all that is needed. Now in your 30 footer then heck yeah go with the HO at a bare minimum.
Now 24 foot V's and smaller with Huge power your probably asking for chine walk. There really is no need unless you want to haul a$$ in the right conditions and you are a very, very, very good driver.
Another good post.

blackcloud75
08-28-2006, 05:17 PM
You'll always want bigger.........just go w/ the 525

Kilrtoy
08-28-2006, 05:35 PM
I love these threads....
I love these threads....
Did I say i love these threads.....
I know of alot of people wishing they went big right now.....
GO AS BIG AS YOU CAN AFFORD AND THEN GO ONE STEP BIGGER...
TRUST ME ON THIS ONE....
YOU NEVER HEAR ANYONE SAY DAMN I WISH I HAD A SLOWER BOAT, BUT EVERYONE WISHES THEY HAD A FASTER BOAT

Tequila-John
08-28-2006, 05:37 PM
I love these threads....
I love these threads....
Did I say i love these threads.....
I know of alot of people wishing they went big right now.....
GO AS BIG AS YOU CAN AFFORD AND THEN GO ONE STEP BIGGER...
TRUST ME ON THIS ONE....
YOU NEVER HEAR ANYONE SAY DAMN I WISH I HAD A SLOWER BOAT, BUT EVERYONE WISHES THEY HAD A FASTER BOAT
AMEN BROTHER!!!

ratso
08-28-2006, 05:38 PM
I love these threads....
I love these threads....
Did I say i love these threads.....
I know of alot of people wishing they went big right now.....
GO AS BIG AS YOU CAN AFFORD AND THEN GO ONE STEP BIGGER...
TRUST ME ON THIS ONE....
YOU NEVER HEAR ANYONE SAY DAMN I WISH I HAD A SLOWER BOAT, BUT EVERYONE WISHES THEY HAD A FASTER BOAT
Kinda like boobs huh? :idea:

Kilrtoy
08-28-2006, 05:45 PM
Kinda funny that they don't try and upsell you to make an extra couple of bucks. The Mag is all that is needed. .
I thought there was no money to be made in motors , I thought they were all sold at cost :idea:

talbert450r
08-28-2006, 05:50 PM
Even if you go with the 600 you will wish you had the 625, get the 625 you will wish you had gone bigger, like I said It will never end. Find out what boat you want and see what everyone else is running, and ask the boat owners what they think of their motor pros v cons. Then make your decision and never look back. :boxed:

Kilrtoy
08-28-2006, 05:57 PM
Even if you go with the 600 you will wish you had the 625, get the 625 you will wish you had gone bigger, like I said It will never end. Find out what boat you want and see what everyone else is running, and ask the boat owners what they think of their motor pros v cons. Then make your decision and never look back. :boxed:
I bought the biggest motors made and am so glad I did...
I would regret it if I would have gone smaller

rodnjen
08-28-2006, 07:00 PM
Not one person asked what the boat will be used for, is it a family ski/wakeboard weekend cruiser? Or, do you like running high rpm's most of the time. That particular boat (Essex) has a lot of utility, it's not necesarily the fastest hull but it is stable and predictable. You may not see much benefit for the extra money with the 525. I've talked with a couple of Valor owners that say they see 70 with the HO, not bad.
It just depends on what you are buying the boat for.

acatitude
08-28-2006, 07:08 PM
bigger is always better:crossx:
ditto
hp is like boobs if some is good more is better :rollside:

Havasu_Dreamin
08-28-2006, 07:14 PM
Buy my 29 Essex with a 525.....Now, to the question at hand, I think the HO in the 24 would be plenty fast but if you need to have the blue motor, go for it.

phebus
08-28-2006, 07:22 PM
I would call my insurance agent, and get a quote on the boat set up both ways, and see what the difference is.

voodoomedman
08-28-2006, 07:23 PM
I thought there was no money to be made in motors , I thought they were all sold at cost :idea:
If you believe that I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you. Hell If you'll buy that I'll throw the Golden Gate in free.

voodoomedman
08-28-2006, 07:27 PM
I love these threads....
I love these threads....
Did I say i love these threads.....
I know of alot of people wishing they went big right now.....
GO AS BIG AS YOU CAN AFFORD AND THEN GO ONE STEP BIGGER...
TRUST ME ON THIS ONE....
YOU NEVER HEAR ANYONE SAY DAMN I WISH I HAD A SLOWER BOAT, BUT EVERYONE WISHES THEY HAD A FASTER BOAT
Your right to a certain extent. It depends on the hull and what the boat is used for. I am actually perfectly happy with my 496 Mag. However I did upgrade. It was not standard when I bought mine. The 6.2 was standard and I got a look from my wife for spending the extra. I would be bugged about it to this day if I did not upgrade. Now there isn't much need for extra in my hull. Maybe a 525 would be alright. However, there that just built one with a Teague 800 in it. Helllllooooooooo. I hope he knows how to control himself in that thing or we are going to be see another one of those knock down drag out threads debating the quality of an Ultra because some dude has way too much power for his boat. Your boat is bichen but I wouldn't want to drive it with some sort of 5000 horsepower jet engine in it. Even you would say I got too much power.

Jyruiz
08-28-2006, 07:36 PM
If you are a speed demon, go with the most power you can afford. I only have the 496mag on my 26'r and have only gone past 50mph once. I like to cruise and enjoy the ride, my cruising speed is between 40mph and 45mph, gives me plenty of time to avoid the careless boaters/lake lice out there.

Kilrtoy
08-28-2006, 07:39 PM
If you believe that I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you. Hell If you'll buy that I'll throw the Golden Gate in free.
I recall another thread where I posted some prices and was called a liar and everyone said they were sold at cost, So now they are not....

River918
08-28-2006, 07:43 PM
I posted the same question when I was having my Shockwave built earlier this year and got the same answers. I think the appropriate answer is getting what you can afford, including what the price of insurance will be if you get a bigger motor. I personally went with the mag/ho in my 25 footer and it goes plenty fast FOR ME (70 to 73 mph). I did as someone else suggested and used some of the extra $$$$ it would have cost to go with a blue motor and bought some "extras." For example: upgraded the gauges, went with full hydraulic steering (the best $$$ I could have spent), upgraded the stereo, etc.....You'll get alot of answers from people trying to spend your money, but only YOU know what YOU can afford. If speed is that critical to you and you can afford the initial cost and insurance, I would suggest going as big as you can.
By the way, I know of a nice 25'er with a mag/ho and numerous options for sale.... :rolleyes:
Check this one out:
http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117811
(Come on guys, you think I'd pass up a chance like this?)

Kilrtoy
08-28-2006, 07:49 PM
Your right to a certain extent. It depends on the hull and what the boat is used for. I am actually perfectly happy with my 496 Mag. However I did upgrade. It was not standard when I bought mine. The 6.2 was standard and I got a look from my wife for spending the extra. I would be bugged about it to this day if I did not upgrade. Now there isn't much need for extra in my hull. Maybe a 525 would be alright. However, there that just built one with a Teague 800 in it. Helllllooooooooo. I hope he knows how to control himself in that thing or we are going to be see another one of those knock down drag out threads debating the quality of an Ultra because some dude has way too much power for his boat. Your boat is bichen but I wouldn't want to drive it with some sort of 5000 horsepower jet engine in it. Even you would say I got too much power.
That is getting a little extreme...5000 HP.... Maybe 4500 would be ok
:boxed:
I know off hand of two people this year that picked up there boat and on the second day were already regretting the engine choice(TOO SMALL)....
I know of a cobra that just dumped his 496 with 19 hours on it for a 200 hp more powerful motor and one last year that regretted it the day of delivery... That is just off the tip of my tongue... nobody wants to go slow, if that is the case, buy a pontoon and save the cash

voodoomedman
08-28-2006, 07:50 PM
I recall another thread where I posted some prices and was called a liar and everyone said they were sold at cost, So now they are not....
I was thinking you were joking because I remembered that. Anyways I don't know for sure and it's just my opinion but come on. I don't think that any of these guys are in the business just for the fun of it. They need to turn a profit. Now there might not be a huge margin in Mercury motors but I'm sure there is profit in there. Go buy a new car and have them tell you they are making no money by selling it to you at invoice. I'm sure Jay can tell you all about dealer holdbacks, volume incentives and a myriad of other things that the manufacturer pays them for selling that car.

voodoomedman
08-28-2006, 07:52 PM
That is getting a little extreme...5000 HP.... Maybe 4500 would be ok
:boxed:
I know off hand of two people this year that picked up there boat and on the second day were already regretting the engine choice(TOO SMALL)....
I know of a cobra that just dumped his 496 with 19 hours on it for a 200 hp more powerful motor and one last year that regretted it the day of delivery... That is just off the tip of my tongue... nobody wants to go slow, if that is the case, buy a pontoon and save the cash
I agree. I'm just saying there does come a point. Like I said a 525 in a 24 foot V is probably a kick in the pants but a freaking Teague 800. Geez.

voodoomedman
08-28-2006, 07:53 PM
I posted the same question when I was having my Shockwave built earlier this year and got the same answers. I think the appropriate answer is getting what you can afford, including what the price of insurance will be if you get a bigger motor. I personally went with the mag/ho in my 25 footer and it goes plenty fast FOR ME (70 to 73 mph). I did as someone else suggested and used some of the extra $$$$ it would have cost to go with a blue motor and bought some "extras." For example: upgraded the gauges, went with full hydraulic steering (the best $$$ I could have spent), upgraded the stereo, etc.....You'll get alot of answers from people trying to spend your money, but only YOU know what YOU can afford. If speed is that critical to you and you can afford the initial cost and insurance, I would suggest going as big as you can.
By the way, I know of a nice 25'er with a mag/ho and numerous options for sale.... :rolleyes:
Check this one out:
http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117811
(Come on guys, you think I'd pass up a chance like this?)
Nice post.
Well maybe it could have done without the shameless spam. :D

98 Vector 21
08-28-2006, 07:54 PM
Step up...You will allways want more...
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/budmeyser/26corba005-1.jpg

Kilrtoy
08-28-2006, 07:54 PM
Ok so what is the price of a 15K bumped 525HP
what is the profit margin....
I can think of one manufacture that sells them at 30K bumps and then dumps the price to 15 and says I cant go any lower ....im saying that is a 20K profit...

River918
08-28-2006, 07:57 PM
I agree. If you know how to use a throttle and your drive can handle it, then go for as many ponies as your check book can handle.
Gorgeous ride.......I miss my Hallett245..... :frown:

Kilrtoy
08-28-2006, 07:58 PM
but a freaking Teague 800. Geez.
I will agree that is way too much, for that boat....

Decided Advantage
08-28-2006, 08:12 PM
If you can handle the 23K bump I'd go for the 525HP. I'd opt for an all forged 502 over a cast 496 any day. The boat only goes as far as you push the stick. If you drive to fast it's your fault no the 525's. Ck merc on this I think they recommend changing the valve springs out on a 525 at 250 hours. Still cheaper than changing the 496 out after chasing 525s at 250 hours.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. :crossx:

Chipster27
08-28-2006, 08:20 PM
Check this one out:
http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117811
(Come on guys, you think I'd pass up a chance like this?)
Now I remember where I saw your boat, it was on GD.com. I also remember you (with the GD.com name) on RV.net. Didn't you have a Gearbox that had some de-lamination issues?

River918
08-28-2006, 10:32 PM
Now I remember where I saw your boat, it was on GD.com. I also remember you (with the GD.com name) on RV.net. Didn't you have a Gearbox that had some de-lamination issues?
Yep, lemon lawed that bad boy (finally)..

DMOORE
08-28-2006, 10:44 PM
If you actually have to think about the bigger motor, you have already answered your own question. Go with it. If you don't, you'll regret it later.
Darrell.

THOR
08-29-2006, 05:39 AM
What is the jump from the HO to the 500HP?
Better yet, what is the jump from the HO to the 525?
I'd really like to know the honest answer and see what the real list price is and start from there.

wsuwrhr
08-29-2006, 06:59 AM
Nice sig sir.
Brian
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. :crossx:

Beer-30
08-29-2006, 08:42 AM
What is the jump from the HO to the 500HP?
Better yet, what is the jump from the HO to the 525?
I'd really like to know the honest answer and see what the real list price is and start from there.
HP500EFI is no more. No longer produced. Kinda leaves a wide gap between HO and 525.

shadow
08-29-2006, 09:26 AM
If you actually have to think about the bigger motor, you have already answered your own question. Go with it. If you don't, you'll regret it later.
Darrell.
Thats a fact!
Gaurantee that 99.9% of the people that own a boat would like more HP
no matter what HP they have.The ones that say they don't are bull shitting themselves. :)

Singleton
08-29-2006, 09:44 AM
At the end of the day it all depends on the boat (size and weight) and what you want to do with it (family cruise, etc \ or run for speed).
Just ordered the Ultra 26' Shadow Deck and went with the 496HO (should run in mid-70's, low 70's with full load) and that is fast enough for me. Wife does not like it when I go over 45 in current boat and with the kids I needed to think safety first. Also my insurance (lovely State Farm) would not insure it with a 525 (they state too much motor for that size\weight boat). They did some sort of calc and said the boat would go over 85 with that package, but they did not even talk to JW, so how the hell can they figure that out.
So I would say get the motor you want for what you are going to do with the boat you are going to purchase. Remember everyone gets boat\speed jealous out on Havasu at some point in time, but in the end you have to be happy with what you paid for.

DCBDaytona
08-29-2006, 09:47 AM
Go Big or Go Home...After all, you wouldn't buy Mustang with a V-6 would you?

Kilrtoy
08-29-2006, 11:11 AM
What is the jump from the HO to the 500HP?
Better yet, what is the jump from the HO to the 525?
I'd really like to know the honest answer and see what the real list price is and start from there.
you will never know, because noone will ever tell you

Kilrtoy
08-29-2006, 11:13 AM
Go Big or Go Home...After all, you wouldn't buy Mustang with a V-6 would you?
Well, they sell more of those than GTS, kinda like 496's than 525's

Deano
08-29-2006, 11:51 AM
If you can afford it, go with the 525. Its not just about top speed. I would rather cruise a 525 at 65mph than go balls out to get it with the ho.

THOR
08-29-2006, 01:06 PM
you will never know, because noone will ever tell you
I know it is a bunch, but I'll take a ball park price for now.
SO HOW F'N MUCH IS IT?

Chipster27
08-29-2006, 03:21 PM
Yep, lemon lawed that bad boy (finally)..
That was one of the longest running threads in the toyhauler section. Glad to hear it all worked out.

redi4fun
08-29-2006, 03:53 PM
you will never know, because noone will ever tell you
Look here Thor,
http://www.hallettboats.com/options.html
it will give you some idea of the jump. :)

Jimmy James
08-29-2006, 09:57 PM
You'll always want bigger.........just go w/ the 525
Just like the women and their boobs.... they always wish they would have went bigger!!!!
The bigger the better, I say!

Hardly Satisfied
08-30-2006, 08:25 AM
What's your opinion?
On a 24 foot vee hull - say an Essex Valor - is a 525 too much motor for that boat? Is it useless to put a 525 in a 24 foot boat? Not knowing much about hull design etc...would the 525 create any "drivability" issues? Would a 496HO be better?
So now step to a little bigger boat, say 26/27 footer. Same configuration vee hull; for example a Lavey Nu Era 26. Is a 496 HO too small, would a 525 be the right size? Would a 600 or Ilmor 625 be the best choice?
the 496 is a junk motor the 525 motor is hand built with better parts