LHC Council Prays before they start a council meeting

[Kilrtoy]

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME...
Nowonder this town is so back ass...
What happen to seperation of church and state

[Phat Matt]

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME...
Nowonder this town is so back ass...
What happen to seperation of church and state
LHC is a city. :p

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Just going to let that grenade roll right on by and not get on my soapbox about how this fabled "separation of church and state" does not exist in the constitution. :idea:

[Keith E. Sayre]

I think that bunch can use all the help they can get. I'm ok with it.
Keith Sayre

[Her454]

What happen to seperation of church and state
I can't believe you actually said that. :rolleyes: :rollside: And by the way, you should concentrate more on your spelling than the LHC Council. :rollside:

[Kilrtoy]

Sorry but I have never seen city, county, state or federal government pray before they make decisions...
and my spelling is just fine, just ax me :boxed:

[Ziggy]

Was a big controversy in Oceanside on that subject....They have a plaque that says "In God we Trust" in counsel chambers..........
.
whatever floats the boat........

[Jbb]

I can't believe you actually said that. :rolleyes: :rollside: And by the way, you should concentrate more on your spelling than the LHC Council. :rollside:
http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/thumbs/poopstir.gif

[mickeyfinn]

I won't go to far, but:
Separation of church and state is not in our constitution.
The idea comes from the first amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
No where does this read the wayit has been interpreted.
This was meant to keep the state out of the church, not the church outof the state.
This country was founded by people who believed in God and people who wanted to insure they continued to have the right to worship him. They gave people the right to worship whomever they wanted or not at all. Todays interpretation is part of what has been going wrong with this country. Values continue to be watered down until we have none. You cannot have unity if you preach diversity.

[mickeyfinn]

Sorry but I have never seen city, county, state or federal government pray before they make decisions...
and my spelling is just fine, just ax me :boxed:
Very common in most areas for commission,council meetings to start with a non-denominational prayer.

[Her454]

This country was founded by people who believed in God and people who wanted to insure they continued to have the right to worship him. They gave people the right to worship whomever they wanted or not at all. Todays interpretation is part of what has been going wrong with this country. Values continue to be watered down until we have none. You cannot have unity if you preach diversity.
This should open up a can of religious worms but I totally agree.
http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/thumbs/poopstir.gif
I think I love you Jbb. Now if you could just find me a witch that stir'd it up. ;)
They may have been praying so they won't get thier asses handed to them.... :p
Whatever works for them. :rollside:
Sorry but I have never seen city, county, state or federal government pray before they make decisions...
and my spelling is just fine, just ax me :boxed:
Maybe thats whats wrong. ;)

[mickeyfinn]

I have never been accused of political correctness

[Her454]

I have never been accused of political correctness
I like you for that. :crossx:

[Kilrtoy]

Asking for guidance from god before making a decision which you are already bias on, is not the way to conduct business, especially government business

[mickeyfinn]

If there were a way to get 100% voter turn out to vote on that statement,I think you would find that those who agree with you to be a very small minority.

[Her454]

Asking for guidance from god before making a decision which you are already bias on, is not the way to conduct business, especially government business
Says who?

[Kilrtoy]

Says who?
Says me....
make a decision based on what is correct,
not on what the church wants

[HM]

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME...
Nowonder this town is so back ass...
What happen to seperation of church and state
People who like to spout "separation of church and state" usually show their ignorance of what that actually means. I won't mention any names, Miguel. :D
and GRAY DAVIS sux.

[Her454]

Says me....
make a decision based on what is correct,
not on what the church wants
And praying constitutes what the church wants? Thats a bunch of crap. If its non denomination prayer, and most of it is - who cares? If someone prays to God to help them make the RIGHT decision it should'nt matter, period.
If our leaders are taking us in the right direction (and Im not saying LHC is doing that) then it shouldn't matter a rats ass to you or anyone else who or what they pray to.

[Powerquestboy]

[QUOTE=Kilrtoy]Says me....
make a decision based on what is correct,
not on what the church wants[/QUOTE
Actually I'm pretty sure that it doesnt state anywhere in the bible anything about channel restrictions, OUI's, or any general boating rules or regulations. I know there is mention of an arch in the bible but I dont think that passage will inhibit your right to moore at the sandbar. I've been to the church 100's of times and they have never made an official statement as to their position on city issues like, water mains, right of way, new bridges etc. Usually they just talk about god and stuff. I dont think they are hurting anything as long as they dont start basing their decisions on lightning strikes and sh#t.

[mickeyfinn]

I have always wondered what the problem is. Most who object don't believe. Can't prove the God doesn't exist as you can't prove a negative. If you don't believe you still want good decisions. If a prayer gives someone confidence why do you care? Shouldn't be any different than a pitcher who wears his lucky underwear. If there is a God would you not want his guidance? Either way no harm is done. Our laws were originally based on judea-christian beliefs. Things worked pretty well until we started watering the laws down.

[Mrs.Killer]

OH leave Kilr alone, the lord needs your prayers more than he does......

[little rowe boat]

I don't have a problem with it.

[LAPII]

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME...
Nowonder this town is so back ass...
What happen to seperation of church and state
Then why do you continue to boat there, there are lots of other lakes.

[hotlavey]

Asking for guidance from god before making a decision which you are already bias on, is not the way to conduct business, especially government business
So give us an example of how it has affected any decisions one way or another.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

[QUOTE=Kilrtoy]Says me....
make a decision based on what is correct,
not on what the church wants[/QUOTE
I dont think they are hurting anything as long as they dont start basing their decisions on lightning strikes and sh#t.
Amen! LOL

[Troy McClure]

I have always wondered what the problem is. Most who object don't believe. Can't prove the God doesn't exist as you can't prove a negative. .
You can't prove a negative, however, you can't prove that God does exist either. Which would be proving a positive BTW. Proof is hard to come by for the religious, unless you BELIEVE for some reason. What's up with that????

[mickeyfinn]

I don't argue that. It is a matter of faith.

[Sleek-Jet]

Asking for guidance from god before making a decision which you are already bias on, is not the way to conduct business, especially government business
Welcome to small town USA... don't like it, move back to focking California... or get involved in the local political scene and change things...
People simply amaze me... they move out of Cali to get away from all the PC bs or what ever lame ass reason you can think of to leave... and want to change wherever you move to right into where you left from... If I had a quarter for everytime I heard some Kalifornian refuge say "That's not the way we did it in "Fill in rat infested ceaspool of a city back in California", I could afford a new boat.

[Troy McClure]

From Wikipedia:
The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in the Constitution, but rather is derived from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists. In that letter, quoting the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, he writes: "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." Letter to Danbury Baptists (1802)
Thomas Jefferson BTW was the author of the Declaration of Independence. Ironically one of the only documents that helped to found this country that actually mentioned the word God.

[Troy McClure]

So give us an example of how it has affected any decisions one way or another.
Hmmm hard one. 9/11 maybe?

[Todd969]

Hmmm, I just wanted to be your neighbor :)

[Kilrtoy]

Then why do you continue to boat there, there are lots of other lakes.
There are no lakes like this one on the west coast, IMO

[Kilrtoy]

Welcome to small town USA... don't like it, move back to focking California... or get involved in the local political scene and change things...
People simply amaze me... they move out of Cali to get away from all the PC bs or what ever lame ass reason you can think of to leave... and want to change wherever you move to right into where you left from... If I had a quarter for everytime I heard some Kalifornian refuge say "That's not the way we did it in "Fill in rat infested ceaspool of a city back in California", I could afford a new boat.
Sorry did not realize god was running this town...
No wonder the council whole heartly agrees on every issue...
I never moved because of PC and my lame ass is here because we love the river and wanted to get away from all the shit bags in LA, IE, you name it., I thought the bible belt was further east...

[Kilrtoy]

And praying constitutes what the church wants? Thats a bunch of crap. If its non denomination prayer, and most of it is - who cares? If someone prays to God to help them make the RIGHT decision it should'nt matter, period.
If our leaders are taking us in the right direction (and Im not saying LHC is doing that) then it shouldn't matter a rats ass to you or anyone else who or what they pray to.
You would not be saying that if they were praying to Budda or Mohammed

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1616Holeshit_KKK_.jpg
praying is good

[Sleek-Jet]

Sorry did not realize god was running this town...
No wonder the council whole heartly agrees on every issue...
I never moved because of PC and my lame ass is here because we love the river and wanted to get away from all the shit bags in LA, IE, you name it., I thought the bible belt was further east...
God isn't, people that believe in "him" are. Like I said, welcome to small town USA.
You affirm in court or take an oath??
Put up or shut up Kilr old boy... bitching about it on the internet is about like praying to the ether...
Get involved and we'll talk a little more.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Sorry did not realize god was running this town...
I thought the bible belt was further east...
I guess you're still gonna have to 'splain to me (from "further east") just how "Dear lord, please guide us in our decision-making, Amen. translates into "god was running this town".

[SmokinLowriderSS]

You would not be saying that if they were praying to Budda or Mohammed
I would. It is STILL "asking for guidance from the all-knowing chosen deity of worship."

[HM]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1616Holeshit_KKK_.jpg
praying is good
I love that cartoon!

[havaduner]

Dont know how I feel about prayer before a council meeting one way or another.
Who were they praying to???
I thought a city council was supposed to ask their constituents how they would like thier city to be run?

[my21advantage]

OH leave Kilr alone, the lord needs your prayers more than he does......
That's right!
I love a woman who has to protect her man :D

[chub]

May the Lord bless and keep us all.
I firmly believe this nation was created a Christian nation. That's how I read our bill of rights and constitution.
flame on!

[Ziggy]

Take a look at your greenbacks and see who this country believes in......

[Troy McClure]

May the Lord bless and keep us all.
I firmly believe this nation was created a Christian nation. That's how I read our bill of rights and constitution.
flame on!
No flame, how about just supporting your argument. Where in either document does it state that the U.S. was created as a Christian nation?

[ratso]

Take a look at your greenbacks and see who this country believes in......
Dead Presidents? :idea:

[Troy McClure]

Take a look at your greenbacks and see who this country believes in......
That's a weak argument. "In God We Trust" was printed on money MUCH later than the Constitution was written. BTW I could care less if it's on money or not, I'll still make and spend it!

[Kilrtoy]

God isn't, people that believe in "him" are. Like I said, welcome to small town USA.
You affirm in court or take an oath??
Put up or shut up Kilr old boy... bitching about it on the internet is about like praying to the ether...
Get involved and we'll talk a little more.
I would love too, albeit I dont have the time or MONEY to compete against these people...
Now if someone would bankroll me into office, I would be glad to.

[CMATT21]

We have a fire board in our district of San Diego. They pray for guidence before ever meeting. We have issues with the guy who prays.I think on the outside we see an hidden agenda and someone who does not live a Christian life praying and it makes us think it's alot of BS. Most non-christians don't understand that part of being a sinner(a human) is imperfection. When someone prayes they should be perfect. The Lake Havasu Counsil are humans, imperfect and I feel real idiots but they can still pray. Sorry if I offended someone with this post but I don't f'n care.

[Kilrtoy]

I would. It is STILL "asking for guidance from the all-knowing chosen deity of worship."
Im pretty sure you along with a whole shit load of others from Kansas would have a big probably if your town council started off by praying to mohammed or budda. I would also be equally offended

[Ziggy]

That's a weak argument. "In God We Trust" was printed on money MUCH later than the Constitution was written. BTW I could care less if it's on money or not, I'll still make and spend it!Money is this worlds motivator regardless of who's belief we reference.
Everyone will trust who or what they want.

[waterwitch]

You would not be saying that if they were praying to Budda or Mohammed
Im pretty sure you along with a whole shit load of others from Kansas would have a big probably if your town council started off by praying to mohammed or budda. I would also be equally offended
I think you meant to say.. Problem.....
Anyways, these two statements are just LAME. They aren't praying to
Mohammad, or rubbing the belly of a Buddha.
Give it up, no one is going to vote in a guy that has lived in Havasu for
all of a minute to city council. So deal with it.

[Sleek-Jet]

That's a weak argument. "In God We Trust" was printed on money MUCH later than the Constitution was written. BTW I could care less if it's on money or not, I'll still make and spend it!
How about the President of the United States swearing an oath to protect this nation... on a Holy Bible, and swearing that oath to God...
... and that goes for just about every elected official in this country.

[Throttle]

well they are not at church on sundays, so they might as well bore me with it while I am sittin at a council meeting. besides they need all the help they can get.

[Kilrtoy]

I think you meant to say.. Problem.....
Anyways, these two statements are just LAME. They aren't praying to
Mohammad, or rubbing the belly of a Buddha.
Give it up, no one is going to vote in a guy that has lived in Havasu for
all of a minute to city council. So deal with it.
Really , I think you are wrong, better read some of the profiles that are already in place. One specific person lived here less time than I when elected.., and yes I meant to same problem and it would be a problem if they were doing that

[ratso]

How about the President of the United States swearing an oath to protect this nation... on a Holy Bible, and swearing that oath to God...
... and that goes for just about every elected official in this country.
...that's really sad because most politicians and presidents are lying bastards.

[waterwitch]

Really , I think you are wrong, better read some of the profiles that are already in place. One specific person lived here less time than I when elected.., and yes I meant to same problem and it would be a problem if they were doing that
Your having a hell of a time with spell check tonight.
Download google toolbar. It has spellcheck on there for free.....
Really, does it make a difference who is in office? He wouldn't last more
then a year anyways.... so go with the flow.

[Mrs.Killer]

...that's really sad because most politicians and presidents are lying bastards.
Amen to that.....

[Troy McClure]

How about the President of the United States swearing an oath to protect this nation... on a Holy Bible, and swearing that oath to God...
... and that goes for just about every elected official in this country.
You forgot "Swearing to tell the truth and nothing but the truth....." Again, put into the Oaths MUCH later than the writing of our Constitution and Bill. It does not mean anything as far as basing the structure of The U.S.
Adding "So Help Me God" to the Pledge of Allegiance, does not make it Official that this is a religious Country.

[Troy McClure]

Your having a hell of a time with spell check tonight.
Download google toolbar. It has spellcheck on there for free.....
Really, does it make a difference who is in office? He wouldn't last more
then a year anyways.... so go with the flow.
Didn't you mean THAN???? But you spell well.

[Sleek-Jet]

You forgot "Swearing to tell the truth and nothing but the truth....." Again, put into the Oaths MUCH later than the writing of our Constitution and Bill. It does not mean anything as far as basing the structure of The U.S.
Adding "So Help Me God" to the Pledge of Allegiance, does not make it Official that this is a religious Country.
So, when was it added???
I'm not arguing the pledge, but you wanted proof. Our founding fathers were not athiests... the bill of rights gaurantees freedom of religion. So you can believe in whatever you want. If a city councilman wants to pray before a meeting, how is that forcing anything on you?? You can chose not to listen, you can chose not to bow your head, just as easily as he can chose to pray.
It's called personal choice and responsibility... which is what the constitution and bill of rights is all about.

[ratso]

Didn't you mean THAN???? But you spell well.
He spelt it rite... just used it in the wrong text. :rollside:

[Kilrtoy]

Goes to show you how much you really don't know...
Spell check is for when I am getting paid

[waterwitch]

Didn't you mean THAN???? But you spell well.
NO, I like then... but thanks for the compliment!
He spelt it rite... just used it in the wrong text. :rollside:
SHE... waterWITCH
Goes to show you how much you really don't know...
Spell check is for when I am getting paid
Like I give a shit! Just would be nice if one didn't have to try and figure
out what the hell you were saying to be able to respond... or is that
your whole purpose??

[Kilrtoy]

This was posted by you (WATERWITCH) just yesterday.
Talk about spelling and grammatical errors. Glass house honey.
Here are a few pictures of the boat Jeff and his dad are building.
This boat was litterally dead. New stringers, and everything else new,
it'll be a great boat!! I believe it's a 62, but I may be wrong.

[waterwitch]

This was posted by you (WATERWITCH) just yesterday.
Talk about spelling and grammatical errors. Glass house honey.
Here are a few pictures of the boat Jeff and his dad are building.
This boat was literally dead. New stringers, and everything else new,
it'll be a great boat!! I believe it's a 62, but I may be wrong.
LMAO! Guess I should update that spell check!
One to many T's in literally...I still like the way it's written.
I like the pictures even more. Glad to see you flow my posts so closely!
I see Caps... are you getting perturbed Kilr???

[Ziggy]

This was posted by you (WATERWITCH) just yesterday.
Talk about spelling and grammatical errors. Glass house honey.
Here are a few pictures of the boat Jeff and his dad are building.
This boat was litterally dead. New stringers, and everything else new,
it'll be a great boat!! I believe it's a 62, but I may be wrong. :idea:
whatchutalkingaboutwillis?

[Kilrtoy]

LMAO! Guess I should update that spell check!
One to many T's in literally...I still like the way it's written.
I like the pictures even more. Glad to see you flow my posts so closely!
I see Caps... are you getting perturbed Kilr???
No, but I think God is about this post. The army is in full force here... :boxed:

[DUCKY]

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME...
Nowonder this town is so back ass...
What happen to seperation of church and state
Don't even start.... When I went to a city council meeting a while back, I was proud that they did so. This city is bassakwards because of the money thrown around between pockets. This Country and it's Constitution was founded on Christian and Biblical beliefs and principles and enjoyed nearly 200 years of great wealth, success and growth under those principles. The decline of our civilization in the last 30 years can be directly attributed to the "politically correct", Liberal morons that are too afraid of stepping on someones toes instead of reaching in and getting the job done. And just to let you know, the concept of a "separation of church and state" is no where to be found in this Nation's Constitution. It was merely mentioned in a letter by Thomas Jefferson to a group calling themselves the Danbury Baptists. If you haven't heard, a recent poll said that 86% of Americans still believe in God. I am one of those 86% and I am telling you and the other 14% to sit down and shut the hell up.
:mad:

[Kilrtoy]

. If you haven't heard, a recent poll said that 86% of Americans still believe in God. I am one of those 86% and I am telling you and the other 14% to sit down and shut the hell up.
:mad:
Glad to know, that you know, what I beleive in...

[3 daytona`s]

:) Welcome to small town USA... don't like it, move back to focking California... or get involved in the local political scene and change things...
People simply amaze me... they move out of Cali to get away from all the PC bs or what ever lame ass reason you can think of to leave... and want to change wherever you move to right into where you left from... If I had a quarter for everytime I heard some Kalifornian refuge say "That's not the way we did it in "Fill in rat infested ceaspool of a city back in California", I could afford a new boat.
If I have heard this once I`ve heard it a hunred times,live in Az. in the summer and want to run the show.If you think you own the place get off your ass go to the meetings instead of reading the paper and this thread.I hear all the pissing about the channel needs dredging why doesn`t one of the "HOT RODS" go around with a "Hat" every weekend and have all the bitchers and users put up or shut up.Why would the council care if the channel suits many of these people.All you guys kick in and pay for the dredging - it will put you in a new light with the locals. Kilrtoy I understand,he is in such frantic overdrive to post on every thread so he can reach 1 MILLION before anyone that he might not think first,but he is a constant critic of the council.I was always taught,if you have no solution or plan shut up and watch. SLEEK JET=EXCELLENT,INTELLEGENT POSTS

[Kilrtoy]

I wonder what the former LHC mayor was praying too when she got busted for snorting cocaine...
Maybe for some more blow.

[Kilrtoy]

:)
If I have heard this once I`ve heard it a hunred times,live in Az. in the summer and want to run the show.If you think you own the place get off your ass go to the meetings instead of reading the paper and this thread.I hear all the pissing about the channel needs dredging why doesn`t one of the "HOT RODS" go around with a "Hat" every weekend and have all the bitchers and users put up or shut up.Why would the council care if the channel suits many of these people.All you guys kick in and pay for the dredging - it will put you in a new light with the locals. Kilrtoy I understand,he is in such frantic overdrive to post on every thread so he can reach 1 MILLION before anyone that he might not think first,but he is a constant critic of the council.I was always taught,if you have no solution or plan shut up and watch. SLEEK JET=EXCELLENT,INTELLEGENT POSTS
GREAT POST :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I have watched Uncle Larry, business owners and people with alot more money than I, go down to these meeetings and get NO WHERE, This is a small town and has small town money... If you dont think there are about 5 very rich powerful people in this town that controls what happens, you are sadly mistaken. Im sure you can easily name two of them if you have ever visited this town

[Ziggy]

I wonder what the former LHC mayor was praying too when she got busted for snorting cocaine...
Maybe for some more blow.
to ;)
.
so now she has to pay the piper for her choices.

[Her454]

Kilr, Kilr, Kilr......isn't it time to say your prayers and go to bed?
Tuck Mrs Kilr in or something, she's probably tired from fighting your battles. :rollside:

[slowinhavasu]

Don't forget to vote.....May the Devil bless you..... :crossx:

[Kilrtoy]

Sorry dont push god on me, I know where to find him

[Biglue]

Sorry dont push god on me, I know where to find him
At the council meeting? :)

[Tom Brown]

Don't forget to vote.....May the Devil bless you..... :crossx:
Amen! :D

[Her454]

Sorry dont push god on me, I know where to find him
Who is pushing God on you Kilr? They are simply praying before a meeting. Its a right/freedom as an American. It is hurting nothing. Your reference to Budda earlier is ridiculous. If they want to pray to a Brass Monkey and they get the job done RIGHT, what should you care?

[Kilrtoy]

Who is pushing God on you Kilr? They are simply praying before a meeting. Its a right/freedom as an American. It is hurting nothing. Your reference to Budda earlier is ridiculous. If they want to pray to a Brass Monkey and they get the job done RIGHT, what should you care?
Why I am being forced into this praying....
You all are missing the point...
DONT PUSH RELIGION ON ME.....
I KNOW WHERE TO FIND IT
and no it is not...
Do you think the American public would take offense to the president praying to Budda or Mohammed before he makes decisions PUBLICLY...
I think the whole country would revolt and try and kill the man...

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

this is the top on BS threads :yuk:

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

Don't forget to vote.....May the Devil bless you..... :crossx:
LMAO

[3 daytona`s]

When you move into a new town,neighborhood I`m thinking conform to their way of doing things or stay out.This is crazy go up river and start a new town ,there are people who helped build that town.I think it`s amazing there are people who don`t like their enviroment decide to move and feel the whole thing will change to their liking.I`m telling you if I had lived in Havasu for some time I would be at the meetings and would attempt to protect rights and wishes of those who live there 24-7-365 not when they want.

[Marty Gras]

Is it the "prayer itself" or what was being said/voted on DURRING THE MEETING, that offended you? How deep did this "prayer" go? Was it a "controling religious act" or just a "let's all get our own (personal) selves centered on an honist level"? Did the act of a "prayer" try to control the meeting or just "settle the participants" into a more agreeable mood. I don't know, but I do know that whatever "GOD" you pray to/or not, may bring an 'air' of calm to your thoughts and responces. Our paper money and coins still say, "in god we trust" and I also see in that statement, "not my god, nor your god, but each one of us who reads this credo, "in each one of our own individual selves that has a god" and in him/her we (each) do trust. Please don't confuse my "trust in god" for any "trust in the mayor and city council"! "Wouldn't be prudent at this time". The "say one thing and do something totally different" Mayor and council are due for a big change. Miguel, you only need to align yourself with the realtors, and the "Havasu 100" and you will be elected at the next vote. That has been the way things go here for many years. You will only need to SELL OUT ALL OF YOUR NEIGHBORS, for your own personal benifit. You will also be required to join in the over taxing and manipulating of your fellow citizens. Your 'personal 100' friends will really appreciate your help when getting "zoning or building requirements changed". Your "personal 100 friends" will offer you "gifts" that you will be unable to reject. Good luck "Mr Politico". I offer my humble "prayers". By the way, the denominations of these "prayer" procedings are in $50's and $100's!!!! HA HA!!!

[Ziggy]

this is the top on BS threads :yuk:
Right on Mel..........

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

Kilr, Kilr, Kilr......isn't it time to say your prayers and go to bed?
Tuck Mrs Kilr in or something, she's probably tired from fighting your battles. :rollside:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1616gggggg_1_.gif

[HM]

I am praying for KToy to get his 830.39q7e8ulakjd nojfjackassjdfiao9ei certification so he can be a real bad ass and not just play one in the cross walk. :220v:

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

I am praying for KToy to get his 830.39q7e8ulakjd nojfjackassjdfiao9ei certification so he can be a real bad ass and not just play one in the cross walk. :220v:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1616gggggg_1_.gif

[Her454]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1616gggggg_1_.gif
SYA =http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/thumbs/poopstir.gif LOL

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

SYA =http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/thumbs/poopstir.gif LOL
not me LMAO where are the tit and azz

[Tom Brown]

Right now I'm praying for a really good drama thread before I go to bed.

[Her454]

not me LMAO where are the tit and azz
Have you prayed for them yet? :rollside:
Right now I'm praying for a really good drama thread before I go to bed.
At least you are praying, thats a start.
Her454 ~ helping peoples one at a time LOL.

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

I can bring up the now you have seen it all thread
ooooo thats right I had it deleted LMAO

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

Have you prayed for them yet? :rollside:
At least you are praying, thats a start.
Her454 ~ helping peoples one at a time LOL.
I pray everynight for everyone

[Her454]

I can bring up the now you have seen it all thread
ooooo thats right I had it deleted LMAO
THAT WAS PURE UNADULTERATED SIN! Shame on you! :rollside:

[LAPII]

I am praying for KToy to get his 830.39q7e8ulakjd nojfjackassjdfiao9ei certification so he can be a real bad ass and not just play one in the cross walk. :220v:
LOL, amen to that!

[Tom Brown]

THAT WAS PURE UNADULTERATED SIN!
Not at all. I'm adulterating to it right now. ... by myself. :cool:

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

THAT WAS PURE UNADULTERATED SIN! Shame on you! :rollside:
yeah I caught HELL for that one but WTF you post BS on a wed site and get mad when it gets around. I dont know I guess his vagina still hurts

[Kilrtoy]

I am praying for KToy to get his 830.39q7e8ulakjd nojfjackassjdfiao9ei certification so he can be a real bad ass and not just play one in the cross walk. :220v:
AMEN, brother pray harder, just do it to the right GOD this time...

[Kilrtoy]

Is it the "prayer itself" or what was being said/voted on DURRING THE MEETING, that offended you? How deep did this "prayer" go? Was it a "controling religious act" or just a "let's all get our own (personal) selves centered on an honist level"? Did the act of a "prayer" try to control the meeting or just "settle the participants" into a more agreeable mood. I don't know, but I do know that whatever "GOD" you pray to/or not, may bring an 'air' of calm to your thoughts and responces. Our paper money and coins still say, "in god we trust" and I also see in that statement, "not my god, nor your god, but each one of us who reads this credo, "in each one of our own individual selves that has a god" and in him/her we (each) do trust. Please don't confuse my "trust in god" for any "trust in the mayor and city council"! "Wouldn't be prudent at this time". The "say one thing and do something totally different" Mayor and council are due for a big change. Miguel, you only need to align yourself with the realtors, and the "Havasu 100" and you will be elected at the next vote. That has been the way things go here for many years. You will only need to SELL OUT ALL OF YOUR NEIGHBORS, for your own personal benifit. You will also be required to join in the over taxing and manipulating of your fellow citizens. Your 'personal 100' friends will really appreciate your help when getting "zoning or building requirements changed". Your "personal 100 friends" will offer you "gifts" that you will be unable to reject. Good luck "Mr Politico". I offer my humble "prayers". By the way, the denominations of these "prayer" procedings are in $50's and $100's!!!! HA HA!!!
This is so true,but i would say maybe Havasu 20 at best..
It was the fact that a city meeting started with a prayer, not its content....

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

Satan
traditional opponent of God and humanity in Judaism and Christianity. In Scripture and literature the role of the opponent is given many names, such as Apolyon, Beelzebub, Semihazah, Azazel, Belial, and Sammael. Nicknames include the Tempter, Evil One, God of This World, Father of Lies, and Prince of Darkness. But in the New Testament it is Satan, with its Greek equivalent diabolos (the Devil), which came to dominate, displacing or demoting other names and figures.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1616krampuscard.gif
mmmmmm

[Havasu1986]

When you move into a new town,neighborhood I`m thinking conform to their way of doing things or stay out.This is crazy go up river and start a new town ,there are people who helped build that town.I think it`s amazing there are people who don`t like their enviroment decide to move and feel the whole thing will change to their liking.I`m telling you if I had lived in Havasu for some time I would be at the meetings and would attempt to protect rights and wishes of those who live there 24-7-365 not when they want.
Very well said. You can watch them on T.V. Or you can go to the meetings and voice your opions in front of the people who were voted in by your town.

[Jesster]

What's wrong with starting sessions with prayer and if Jefferson was all about the seperation of church and state dont you think he might have spoken up since he was alive at the time and not left interpretation to a bunch of activist judges.
The First Continental Congress, Tuesday, September 6, 1774, their first official act was a call to prayer at 9:00am
Ever since the First Continental Congress each session of Congress is still started with an opening prayer.
O' Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from Thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee, to Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give; take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them Wisdom in Council and Valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle!
Be Thou present, 0' God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst the people.
Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior. Amen

[Kilrtoy]

Very well said. You can watch them on T.V. Or you can go to the meetings and voice your opions in front of the people who were voted in by your town.
and nothing will change, you should already know this...
can someone please pray to god and ask him to send in some evil beings to help me out here... :rollside: :boxed:

[USCFAN]

I pray everynight for everyone
For everyone SYA? :idea:

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

and nothing will change, you should already know this...
can someone please pray to god and ask him to send in some evil beings to help me out here... :rollside: :boxed:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1616lightening.gif
BECAREFUL SOMEONE IS WATCHING

[havasu5150]

The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. It does not guarantee freedom from religion. If someone is offended by a public display of a religious symbol or prayer, it is a personal issue.

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

For everyone SYA? :idea:
you know I do will you be in havasu this weekend

[Havasu1986]

KToy
I'm sure your in a union like I am. Every time we have a new contract come up. The out come was decided well before we have even voted on where to put the new money. Why even go.

[Marty Gras]

Do you think that large, well lighted, well controled (traffic lights), wide area at the intersection of Mulberry and SR95 just happens to be "ready to go" for NO REASON? Just think back to the "state land lease" and the (then mayor's) visit to Phoenix. All of the lands in that area are owned, controled, or brokered by "people in the know". (Havasu 100) The same people who put the "past 2 mayors" in office and got the entire 'ball rolling' for a new marina, C1/C2 business district and "grand hiway entrance", paid for by the state? I wish I could get the state or city to pay for "some improvements" on my next land deal. NEVER have any of the past mayors or council people been held accountable for their actions, they all just EXPECT US TO KEEP PAYING WITHOUT QUESTION. I say "get a rope"!

[USCFAN]

you know I do will you be in havasu this weekend
I haven't decided yet.

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

I haven't decided yet.
dont be a puss WTF bring that sled out I will be at moabi all day saturday for a BBQ

[BajaMike]

Who cares???:confused:
This guy is cool though...
http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/thumbs/poopstir.gif

[USCFAN]

You know I am trying to get there. Just have alot going on in Cali right now.

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

You know I am trying to get there. Just have alot going on in Cali right now.
I hear you, well if you make it you know where I will be

[USCFAN]

Thats a big 10-4. I guess thats one of the advantages of having a house in Havi, you can just get up and go at the last minute.

[Kilrtoy]

KToy
I'm sure your in a union like I am. Every time we have a new contract come up. The out come was decided well before we have even voted on where to put the new money. Why even go.
yes I know how shit works and most of the time I just shake my head....

[Kilrtoy]

Do you think that large, well lighted, well controled (traffic lights), wide area at the intersection of Mulberry and SR95 just happens to be "ready to go" for NO REASON? Just think back to the "state land lease" and the (then mayor's) visit to Phoenix. All of the lands in that area are owned, controled, or brokered by "people in the know". (Havasu 100) The same people who put the "past 2 mayors" in office and got the entire 'ball rolling' for a new marina, C1/C2 business district and "grand hiway entrance", paid for by the state? I wish I could get the state or city to pay for "some improvements" on my next land deal. NEVER have any of the past mayors or council people been held accountable for their actions, they all just EXPECT US TO KEEP PAYING WITHOUT QUESTION. I say "get a rope"!
I agree, but until we can get someone in town other than the select few it will continue

[Redwing247]

This is a prayer that was delivered before a meeting of Kansas House of Representatives in Topeka, Jan 1996.
Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and seek your direction and guidance.
We know your Word says, "Woe to those who call evil good," but that's exactly what we've done.
We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and inverted our values.
We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of your Word and called it moral pluralism.
We have worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism.
We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.
We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice.
We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building esteem.
We have abused power and called it political savvy.
We have coveted our neighbors' possessions and called it ambition.
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.
Search us O God and know our hearts today; try us and see if there be some wicked way in us; cleanse us from every sin and set us free.
Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent here by the people of Kansas, and who have been ordained by you, to govern this great state.
Grant them your wisdom to rule and may their decisions direct us to the center of your will. I ask it in the name of your son, the living savior, Jesus Christ.
Amen.

[Cheap Thrills]

You forgot ..
We came to shit and only farted :D
.
Ok that was bad... Bad CT bad bad bad bad bad....
.
C.T. :wink:

[Kilrtoy]

This is a prayer that was delivered before a meeting of Kansas House of Representatives in Topeka, Jan 1996.
Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and seek your direction and guidance.
We know your Word says, "Woe to those who call evil good," but that's exactly what we've done.
We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and inverted our values.
We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of your Word and called it moral pluralism.
We have worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism.
We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.
We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice.
We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building esteem.
We have abused power and called it political savvy.
We have coveted our neighbors' possessions and called it ambition.
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.
Search us O God and know our hearts today; try us and see if there be some wicked way in us; cleanse us from every sin and set us free.
Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent here by the people of Kansas, and who have been ordained by you, to govern this great state.
Grant them your wisdom to rule and may their decisions direct us to the center of your will. I ask it in the name of your son, the living savior, Jesus Christ.
Amen.
That is great, too bad it is left open for way to many interpetations...
in either direction...

[Jbb]

I think I love you Jbb. Now if you could just find me a witch that stir'd it up. ;)
;)
That's what im talkin about.......but how come when I call.....you always laugh at me....? (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/curly.johnson/music/witch.wav)

[kingcole80]

Well i hope they were praying for all the jetskis do disapeer overnight! LOL :skull:

[GHT]

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME...
Nowonder this town is so back ass...
What happen to seperation of church and state
Figures you would get this whole controversy going. Sh1t stirrer.. :rolleyes:

[DUCKY]

The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. It does not guarantee freedom from religion. If someone is offended by a public display of a religious symbol or prayer, it is a personal issue.
That's right! If you are offended, It's a personal issue. This country is based upon majority rule, and the majority has been too quiet for far too long. We have let the "14%" run our lives and it's time to stand up and flip the table over!

[Quality Time]

Sorry but I have never seen city, county, state or federal government pray before they make decisions...
and my spelling is just fine, just ax me :boxed:
I serve many City's and attend many Commission and Council meetings. Some do some don't. I've seen the Minute Men come in a blast a Council for not.

[AzMandella]

After reading all of this I think I have to throw my two cents in.Seperation of Church and State was not only meant to keep the State out of our Churches but to also keep our Churches out of our decision making in our government.Yes this country was founded by Christians,but Christians from different faith's.Catholics,Protastant,Babtist's and many other christian faiths do not always agree on the teachings of the bible.The place of government is to make decisions and laws based on human rights and morality,yes I know that many peoples morality comes from the teaching's of the bible,but as human beings we know right from wrong,not our own personal religious beliefs.This has been demonstrated on many levels such as slavery and women's rights.Had religion been alowed to dictate the beliefs on these subjects women would still be 2nd class citizens and we would still have slavery.Just remember that if we let religion dictate government than many of the freedoms we have today would be gone.say like birth control if a predominately Catholic government were to make their decisions based on religion there would be no birth control because it is a sin in their religion even though my religion might condone it.The lists go on and on and on if you think that religion has any place in government.
Now to Killers original statement.I usually don't agree with Killer's thoughts.But I can see where he is coming from in this instance.If a city council is going to start meetings with prayer than it also might mean that they are are going to govern by their own personal religious beliefs rather than what is the best thing for the city.Just imagine if people really did govern by religion only.Hell we might not be able to boat on Sunday's because the council decided that it was god's day and that sports and recreational activities should not be preformed on the holy day of the week.Even if it contridicts your religous beliefs these people made it law and you have to abbide by it.

[Redwing247]

That is great, too bad it is left open for way to many interpetations...
in either direction...
Agree with you, that was a great prayer. We have a freedom to choose, that is what so great about this country. As for me, God's commandments are not intended to be customized for the particular whims of particular believers. God's word is not a menu from which each of us may select a la carte, according to one own desire. Far from it, it must be taken in its entirety. Now you know where I stand.

[Powerquestboy]

After reading all of this I think I have to throw my two cents in.Seperation of Church and State was not only meant to keep the State out of our Churches but to also keep our Churches out of our decision making in our government.Yes this country was founded by Christians,but Christians from different faith's.Catholics,Protastant,Babtist's and many other christian faiths do not always agree on the teachings of the bible.The place of government is to make decisions and laws based on human rights and morality,yes I know that many peoples morality comes from the teaching's of the bible,but as human beings we know right from wrong,not our own personal religious beliefs.This has been demonstrated on many levels such as slavery and women's rights.Had religion been alowed to dictate the beliefs on these subjects women would still be 2nd class citizens and we would still have slavery.Just remember that if we let religion dictate government than many of the freedoms we have today would be gone.say like birth control if a predominately Catholic government were to make their decisions based on religion there would be no birth control because it is a sin in their religion even though my religion might condone it.The lists go on and on and on if you think that religion has any place in government.
Now to Killers original statement.I usually don't agree with Killer's thoughts.But I can see where he is coming from in this instance.If a city council is going to start meetings with prayer than it also might mean that they are are going to govern by their own personal religious beliefs rather than what is the best thing for the city.Just imagine if people really did govern by religion only.Hell we might not be able to boat on Sunday's because the council decided that it was god's day and that sports and recreational activities should not be preformed on the holy day of the week.Even if it contridicts your religous beliefs these people made it law and you have to abbide by it.
Seriously....Think about what you are saying. I know of no Bible that takes an official postion on issues like roadways, Bridges, channel restrictions, etc. Its the City Coucil, they discuss City issues. If they are wondering weather to outlaw boats over 30 feet mooring in the channel they will not find the answer in the Bible. If LHC needs to create a law that says its not ok to urinate on your naked wife in the channel they can search every Bible known to man and will not find the answer. Hell I dont even think the Bible says anything negative about nudity???? Do you think Eve hooked it up with adam because he came to this earth wearing an Armani suit? Like I said earlier in this thread as long as they are not putting something to vote and looking to the sky and waiting for 1 or 2 lightning strikes, its pretty much a non issue. Maybe the Mayor carry's a lucky rabbits foot on his key chain, that doesnt necessarily mean he's flipping lucky coins when hes got a tough decision to make.

[AzMandella]

Seriously....Think about what you are saying. I know of no Bible that takes an official postion on issues like roadways, Bridges, channel restrictions, etc. Its the City Coucil, they discuss City issues. If they are wondering weather to outlaw boats over 30 feet mooring in the channel they will not find the answer in the Bible. If LHC needs to create a law that says its not ok to urinate on your naked wife in the channel they can search every Bible known to man and will not find the answer. Hell I dont even think the Bible says anything negative about nudity???? Do you think Eve hooked it up with adam because he came to this earth wearing an Armani suit? Like I said earlier in this thread as long as they are not putting something to vote and looking to the sky and waiting for 1 or 2 lightning strikes, its pretty much a non issue. Maybe the Mayor carry's a lucky rabbits foot on his key chain, that doesnt necessarily mean he's flipping lucky coins when hes got a tough decision to make.
I know that there is no parts of the bible about boating.They are extreme examples of what might happen if we let lawmakers impose laws based on religious beliefs.Not all people have the same religious beliefs and nobody should have to live life based on someone's religious beliefs that might contridict the beliefs of others.That is exactly why we have "Separation of Church and State"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Obviosly there are not many religious implications as far as roads,bridges and channel restrictions,but city councils decide a lot more than that as far as our laws of society is concerned.And if you think that looking to the sky for a sign from god is the only way lawmakers can use their religious beliefs to impose their own morality on the public than you are very mistaken.By your statement you are saying that as long as they are not looking to the sky for a bolt of lightning as an answer from god they may use their riligious beliefs to make laws.That is very foolish.What if they decided that pornography went against their religious beliefs and passed a law banning porn in LHC.It would be reversed on appeal as a violation of peoples constitutional rights.Just talk to people who lived in the south(Bible Belt) 50 yrs ago and see how many laws were made forcing people to adhere to laws tha were based on their religios beliefs that were overturned years later because they violated other peoples constitutional rights.Everybody can keep arguing about wether religion and government should exist together all they want.But our forefathers were smart enough to know that not everybodies beliefs are the same and that is why Separation of Church and State was added the Ammendments.

[mickeyfinn]

After reading all of this I think I have to throw my two cents in.Seperation of Church and State was not only meant to keep the State out of our Churches but to also keep our Churches out of our decision making in our government.Yes this country was founded by Christians,but Christians from different faith's.Catholics,Protastant,Babtist's and many other christian faiths do not always agree on the teachings of the bible.The place of government is to make decisions and laws based on human rights and morality,yes I know that many peoples morality comes from the teaching's of the bible,but as human beings we know right from wrong,not our own personal religious beliefs.This has been demonstrated on many levels such as slavery and women's rights.Had religion been alowed to dictate the beliefs on these subjects women would still be 2nd class citizens and we would still have slavery.Just remember that if we let religion dictate government than many of the freedoms we have today would be gone.say like birth control if a predominately Catholic government were to make their decisions based on religion there would be no birth control because it is a sin in their religion even though my religion might condone it.The lists go on and on and on if you think that religion has any place in government.
Now to Killers original statement.I usually don't agree with Killer's thoughts.But I can see where he is coming from in this instance.If a city council is going to start meetings with prayer than it also might mean that they are are going to govern by their own personal religious beliefs rather than what is the best thing for the city.Just imagine if people really did govern by religion only.Hell we might not be able to boat on Sunday's because the council decided that it was god's day and that sports and recreational activities should not be preformed on the holy day of the week.Even if it contridicts your religous beliefs these people made it law and you have to abbide by it.
If the country was being run the way it was intended, most of this would not be an issue. Everyone wants to talk about separation of church and state even though it is not a real part of our system. What should have peoples concern is states rights. Originally politicians came from people who were well known in their community. People elected them because they agreed with them on issues. Whether based in religion or not didn't matter. If I voted for you because of your beliefs and you are a deeply religous person I do want you to vote you feelings, from wherever you get them. Abortion laws, drinking on Sunday, boating on Sunday are all local issues that should have no need for federal input. Rowe vs. Wade should not have been decided at the federal supreme court level. The ruling should have been something on the order of "This is a state issue, rulings on this issue should be made at the state level" If a majority catholic state wants abortion and birth control to be illegal, so be it. No different from gambling or Sunday liquor sales. If you don't like the laws that the majority of people around you choose to live by, you can move. Pretty simple concept.

[Jesster]

After reading all of this I think I have to throw my two cents in.Seperation of Church and State was not only meant to keep the State out of our Churches but to also keep our Churches out of our decision making in our government.Yes this country was founded by Christians,but Christians from different faith's.Catholics,Protastant,Babtist's and many other christian faiths do not always agree on the teachings of the bible.The place of government is to make decisions and laws based on human rights and morality,yes I know that many peoples morality comes from the teaching's of the bible,but as human beings we know right from wrong,not our own personal religious beliefs.This has been demonstrated on many levels such as slavery and women's rights.Had religion been alowed to dictate the beliefs on these subjects women would still be 2nd class citizens and we would still have slavery.Just remember that if we let religion dictate government than many of the freedoms we have today would be gone.say like birth control if a predominately Catholic government were to make their decisions based on religion there would be no birth control because it is a sin in their religion even though my religion might condone it.The lists go on and on and on if you think that religion has any place in government.
Now to Killers original statement.I usually don't agree with Killer's thoughts.But I can see where he is coming from in this instance.If a city council is going to start meetings with prayer than it also might mean that they are are going to govern by their own personal religious beliefs rather than what is the best thing for the city.Just imagine if people really did govern by religion only.Hell we might not be able to boat on Sunday's because the council decided that it was god's day and that sports and recreational activities should not be preformed on the holy day of the week.Even if it contridicts your religous beliefs these people made it law and you have to abbide by it.
You can't govern by morals alone, morals are relative to each person unless a strict set of guidelines are used to judge them by (read commandments). But the minority of society has taken control, by getting society to govern by morals then saying we can't have the 10 commandments in government buildings, what are the 10 commandments but a set of rules that make sense. Then they get prayer taken out of schools then under god out of the pledge, students cant say a prayer before a football game, nor can they invoke Gods name during a commencement speech. Next will be in god we trust, and its just a matter of time that any reference to God or Jesus in a public place will be ruled unconstitutional. What is wrong with this it isn't hurting the atheist or the Jew, or the Muslim nobody is forcing them to pray, acknowledge a divine existence or do anything. That, would be, unconstitutional. Nobody is hurt by these things but everybody is hurt by the removal of these them.
By removing God and his teachings from our lives personal morals have nothing to be measured against and will decay into chaos for this country. Our country is in decline now and in my opinion the main reason for that is moral turpitude (did I say turpitude :) ) or moral relativism of our politicians and general population because we are no longer taught right and wrong according to a strict set of rules but instead by a small minority of people that think their moral compasses point true north but actually point anywhere but. The small minority no longer thinks it appropriate that children are disciplined in school for behavior that is inappropriate in younger children and just plain immoral by the time they reach Middle and High school. The extortion practices of the ACLU and the extortionists employed by them dictate what is right and wrong in this country by using the court system to bludgeon, us into conformity.

[AzMandella]

Your right.The country is not being run the way our forefathers meant for it to be.That's why we are having this descussion.And as far as wether it be a State or Federal decision I feel that has more to do with the fact of wether or not it is a constitutional issue or not.there are laws that are meant to protect everyones constitutional and human rights no matter what state they live in.Unfortunately many state issues end up having to be solved by the supreme court because the state involved could not pass that law in question without using their religious beliefs,and in turn infringed on other peoples constitutional rights.Comparing abortion to gambling and drinking on sunday is not a good one.I know of no state that says I cannot drink on Sunday.They just say I cannot purchase alcohol until a certian time.And gambling has nothing to do with religion or civil rights.But abortion regardless of belief does fall within constitutional rights.A womans right to do with her body as she wishes.So no.A predominately Catholic state does not have the right to abbolish abortion because it is a sin in their religion.In doing so they are passing laws forcing people to live by their religious beliefs.Which is a complete contradiction of Church and State.Most state laws are made to protect the genaral public.Not infringe on constitutional and human rights.But like you said.If the government were being run the way they set it up to be,this would all be moot.

[Jesster]

I know that there is no parts of the bible about boating.They are extreme examples of what might happen if we let lawmakers impose laws based on religious beliefs.Not all people have the same religious beliefs and nobody should have to live life based on someone's religious beliefs that might contridict the beliefs of others.That is exactly why we have "Separation of Church and State"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Obviosly there are not many religious implications as far as roads,bridges and channel restrictions,but city councils decide a lot more than that as far as our laws of society is concerned.And if you think that looking to the sky for a sign from god is the only way lawmakers can use their religious beliefs to impose their own morality on the public than you are very mistaken.By your statement you are saying that as long as they are not looking to the sky for a bolt of lightning as an answer from god they may use their riligious beliefs to make laws.That is very foolish.What if they decided that pornography went against their religious beliefs and passed a law banning porn in LHC.It would be reversed on appeal as a violation of peoples constitutional rights.Just talk to people who lived in the south(Bible Belt) 50 yrs ago and see how many laws were made forcing people to adhere to laws tha were based on their religios beliefs that were overturned years later because they violated other peoples constitutional rights.Everybody can keep arguing about wether religion and government should exist together all they want.But our forefathers were smart enough to know that not everybodies beliefs are the same and that is why Separation of Church and State was added the Ammendments.
You just nullified your own argument. The constitution stops people from doing the exact things you say, governing by religion. You can’t govern by religion because like you said it would be overturned on appeal (checks and balances)because it is unconstitutional based on other amendments like freedom of speech not because of the "fabricated" separation of church and State. Jefferson was alive and active in Federal government when the fist congress started to meet, their first meeting and every one thereafter has been started with a prayer. If he, as a founding father, would have meant for the separation of church and state to go as far as it has don’t you think he would have mentioned it then?

[ekbearly]

Let the founders quotes speak for themselves:
John Adams:
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
Samuel Adams:
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]
John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
Alexander Hamilton:
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]
Patrick Henry:
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
Jefferson:
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
Madison:
“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]
Washington:
“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
Hmmm... really sounds like they wanted to purge God from government.

[AzMandella]

You can't govern by morals alone, morals are relative to each person unless a strict set of guidelines are used to judge them by (read commandments). But the minority of society has taken control, by getting society to govern by morals then saying we can't have the 10 commandments in government buildings, what are the 10 commandments but a set of rules that make sense. Then they get prayer taken out of schools then under god out of the pledge, students cant say a prayer before a football game, nor can they invoke Gods name during a commencement speech. Next will be in god we trust, and its just a matter of time that any reference to God or Jesus in a public place will be ruled unconstitutional. What is wrong with this it isn't hurting the atheist or the Jew, or the Muslim nobody is forcing them to pray, acknowledge a divine existence or do anything. That, would be, unconstitutional. Nobody is hurt by these things but everybody is hurt by the removal of these them.
By removing God and his teachings from our lives personal morals have nothing to be measured against and will decay into chaos for this country. Our country is in decline now and in my opinion the main reason for that is moral turpitude (did I say turpitude :) ) or moral relativism of our politicians and general population because we are no longer taught right and wrong according to a strict set of rules but instead by a small minority of people that think their moral compasses point true north but actually point anywhere but. The small minority no longer thinks it appropriate that children are disciplined in school for behavior that is inappropriate in younger children and just plain immoral by the time they reach Middle and High school. The extortion practices of the ACLU and the extortionists employed by them dictate what is right and wrong in this country by using the court system to bludgeon, us into conformity.
All I can say is that this is nolonger only a christian country and the system is actually working the way it should.It is allowing people to practice their religion with no persocution and at the same time not imposing their religion on anyone else.I agree with you that morality is usually derived from one's religous beliefs and that the ten commandments says it it all when it comes to how man should treat his fellow man.It says it all in a nutshell.But in schools we cannot continue to preach the teachings of the lord unless we are ready to give the muslim,buhdist,and other religions the same attention.So it is better to remove them from public functions.Besides it is familly and congragational responsibility to teach our youth.Not the schools.And as I miss the "Christmas Festival"at school which is now the Winter Festival.They have removed almost all the religious implications from it but we still have the community gathering together to celabrate a time of year that we all celabrate in different ways without forcing people of other faiths to participate.And the "don't come if you don't like it "theory doesn't fly because you are saying that America is only a christian country.So unless everybody is willing to give each faith the same attention,which I don't think you could create more hollidays to accomadate them all,then the best thing is to leave religion out of the schools and government

[AzMandella]

You just nullified your own argument. The constitution stops people from doing the exact things you say, governing by religion. You can’t govern by religion because like you said it would be overturned on appeal (checks and balances)because it is unconstitutional based on other amendments like freedom of speech not because of the "fabricated" separation of church and State. Jefferson was alive and active in Federal government when the fist congress started to meet, their first meeting and every one thereafter has been started with a prayer. If he, as a founding father, would have meant for the separation of church and state to go as far as it has don’t you think he would have mentioned it then?
I can't see how i nullified my own argument but so be it.And Jefferson was a great man.And like all great men he new one thing.That he did not know everything.And I dissagree,I think if jefferson were here today to see the great diversity in religions we have,he would think that separation of church and state would be more important to protect ones constitutional rights.

[centerhill condor]

today people think they are god! The State respects no power other than its own to the people's demise!
Dick Nixon was right during the 1960 debate with JFK... federal education money would put the federal courts in control of local schools...how's that working for ya? Anybody happy with falling standards and outcome based education? Have you seen the latest SAT scores? These kids will be running the country soon and GOD is our only hope.
Can't keep sex, drugs, and violence out of school/congress/white house but we won't stand for a bible class! no sir!
how'd that happen? are you more offended when your kid brings home a std or a new testament? Or are you afraid the kids will question your lack of judgement?
All morality comes from religion... there is no such thing as "man the noble beast". You know right from wrong because you were taught by someone that cared enough about your future to get involved.
Our current success has more to do with the first 180 years of the country than the last 50. Can we admit that people need GOD in their lives without turning the country on its ear for those few that think they don't?

[Mrs.Killer]

There sure are alot of Bible thumpers on the boards.

[mickeyfinn]

Your right.The country is not being run the way our forefathers meant for it to be.That's why we are having this descussion.And as far as wether it be a State or Federal decision I feel that has more to do with the fact of wether or not it is a constitutional issue or not.there are laws that are meant to protect everyones constitutional and human rights no matter what state they live in.Unfortunately many state issues end up having to be solved by the supreme court because the state involved could not pass that law in question without using their religious beliefs,and in turn infringed on other peoples constitutional rights.Comparing abortion to gambling and drinking on sunday is not a good one.I know of no state that says I cannot drink on Sunday.They just say I cannot purchase alcohol until a certian time.And gambling has nothing to do with religion or civil rights.But abortion regardless of belief does fall within constitutional rights.A womans right to do with her body as she wishes.So no.A predominately Catholic state does not have the right to abbolish abortion because it is a sin in their religion.In doing so they are passing laws forcing people to live by their religious beliefs.Which is a complete contradiction of Church and State.Most state laws are made to protect the genaral public.Not infringe on constitutional and human rights.But like you said.If the government were being run the way they set it up to be,this would all be moot.
Gambling nothing to do with religion? Ask any leader in almost any religion, you will find very strong opinions based on their beliefs. Right to do with their body as they please?....Take drugs? Prostitution? Suicide? Your head sir, is buried in the sand. Explain to me why abortion is different from these things. Fact is all of these things were made illegal at one time due to religion. Different groups have successfully put liberal people in office who have made some extremely poor decisions. This is what is hurting this country. Anything can be rationalized, but that doesn't make it right. If I have unprotected sex and get her pregnant, she has the sole right to the decision as to whether or not I have a child. This certainly could be seen to impact me. If the same person attempts to kill themself they can be charged with a crime.(I am pro-choice by the way) We have evolved as a country to the point that the desires of the few,outweigh the needs of the many. It will surely result in the continued decline of moral standards, work ethics,common sense and the country as a whole if leftunchecked.

[Her454]

There sure are alot of Bible thumpers on the boards.
Bible Thumpers, assholes, cheaters, people with no morals, drug addicts, people that don't pay their bills.....this site is turning to shit. :rollside:

[Jbb]

Bible Thumpers, assholes, cheaters, people with no morals, drug addicts, people that don't pay their bills.....this site is turning to shit. :rollside:
I hope you are wearing flannel when you talk about me like that... :)

[Her454]

I hope you are wearing flannel when you talk about me like that... :)
I have to put flannel on every time I see your avatar :rollside:

[AzMandella]

Gambling nothing to do with religion? Ask any leader in almost any religion, you will find very strong opinions based on their beliefs. Right to do with their body as they please?....Take drugs? Prostitution? Suicide? Your head sir, is buried in the sand. Explain to me why abortion is different from these things. Fact is all of these things were made illegal at one time due to religion. Different groups have successfully put liberal people in office who have made some extremely poor decisions. This is what is hurting this country. Anything can be rationalized, but that doesn't make it right. If I have unprotected sex and get her pregnant, she has the sole right to the decision as to whether or not I have a child. This certainly could be seen to impact me. If the same person attempts to kill themself they can be charged with a crime.(I am pro-choice by the way) We have evolved as a country to the point that the desires of the few,outweigh the needs of the many. It will surely result in the continued decline of moral standards, work ethics,common sense and the country as a whole if leftunchecked.
I must be lost because what you are saying seems to be the same way I think.Yes we have many laws that were enacted because of poor decision making by people using their religious beliefs rather than inteligence.There is no difference between abortion and drugs and suicide.They have decided for you and I what we can and cannot do with our bodies.But that doesn't mean we should let it continue.By the way I'm a WASP who attends church more often than the major hollidays but am not a bible thumper.Just a person who can see both sides to a point.I would just rather know that the laws that are being imposed on me are for the greater welfare and saftey of the general public than someones religious belief that are not of my own.Religion will always be a small part of lawmakers decision making as religion has shaped the mainly accepted morals that almost all of have been taught throughout our lives.But it should in no way be the determining factor in which they make their decisions.

[AzMandella]

Bible Thumpers, assholes, cheaters, people with no morals, drug addicts, people that don't pay their bills.....this site is turning to shit. :rollside:
WOW you drove that nail clean through the board. :)

[Jesster]

Whether people (by far the minority) want to believe in the separation of Church and State, this is a country founded on the belief in God as a Deity some were Deists some were Christian but the fact remains it was founded on the basic principles of Christianity. Not the religious minutia of any given religious organization. That, is what has made this country what it is. That said, the Constitution gives us the freedom of religion not freedom from religion. We are free to practice whatever we would like. It is also a country of a majority of Christians, when we let out school for Christmas we aren't forcing other people to worship as we do, they can take the time off and do what they want. Let them call it a holiday break but let us leave it Christmas as that’s what it is and that’s what the majority wants. Most Jews, Muslims and other religions have no problem with this at all; it is the extremely small vocal minority that dictates what the majority do because of the political correctness in today's society. And it seems that most of the people that are so against the religious background of this county are the atheists and agnostics, what is their ulterior motive.
Let us and the way we have celebrated holidays that this country was founded upon alone. Nobody is stopping them from celebrating their holidays as they like.
My point of nullifying your own argument was that it is the freedom of speech (an amendment) not the fabricated separation of church and state that would win the appeal. I’m saying that separation would have no effect on your LHC porn argument.
I don't see which constitutional rights would be violated if they weren't enforcing separation rules. Freedom of religion takes care of that.

[Jesster]

I also believe that states should be left to their own devices and the Constitution should be their guide. Attempts to amend the constitution have been far too numerous lately with things that should be left to states.
I didn't see any smiley's around "bible thumpers" Mrs. K so I will say I am not thumping any bible I am simply stating that things in this country have gotten the way they are because of a small minority of people dictating to the majority and it seems as though they have their sights set on anything religious. Nobody wants religion dictating to the government but I believe society needs to be guided by the same basic Christian tennents that made this society great.

[Ultracrazy]

May the Lord bless and keep us all.
I firmly believe this nation was created a Christian nation. That's how I read our bill of rights and constitution.
flame on!
You go Chub.........
God Bless......

[Mrs.Killer]

Bible Thumpers, assholes, cheaters, people with no morals, drug addicts, people that don't pay their bills.....this site is turning to shit. :rollside:
Who's cheating and who's on drugs????

[3 daytona`s]

Only you could get two PISSING MATCH multi page threads going at once. Both bitching about LHC I say you can`t miss LA just WEST a tad.

[Mrs.Killer]

Only you could get two PISSING MATCH multi page threads going at once. Both bitching about LHC I say you can`t miss LA just WEST a tad.
And you just love it don't you? Don't follow him too much, we might have to get you a leash.

[Ken F]

I know that there is no parts of the bible about boating..
Ever heard of Noah? :rollside:

[SummitKarl]

Who's cheating and who's on drugs????
That would be me,
I got all hopped up on Exlax and left the dog home.. it was a shitty night :p

[3 daytona`s]

And you just love it don't you? Don't follow him too much, we might have to get you a leash.
ARE YOU NUTS? follow him can`t get away from him. He has 50 posts on every thread,I mean every thread.Yea,I really love it :confused:

[bignet]

Jefferson:
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
You gotta love Jefferson....With all of these neo-conservatives waving the anti-christian flag, and the nation listening to there demagoguery about every topic from terrorists, immigration, and seperation of church and state, you've gotta stop and wonder what f*ckin constitution are they following?? The founding fathers would've hung Bush and all his cronnies for treason! Illegal wire tapping, bogus war in Iraq, 911 misleadings and misinformation, etc......
my .02
bignet

[Her454]

Who's cheating and who's on drugs????
That would be me,
I got all hopped up on Exlax and left the dog home.. it was a shitty night :p
There ya have it Mrs Killer. BTW, I forgot to mention the "criminal" element on the boards also.
Ever heard of Noah? :rollside:
Touche' :rollside:

[Mrs.Killer]

ARE YOU NUTS? follow him can`t get away from him. He has 50 posts on every thread,I mean every thread.Yea,I really love it :confused:
It looks like you just joined Jr. Did you join to comment on his threads.

[Mrs.Killer]

There ya have it Mrs Killer. BTW, I forgot to mention the "criminal" element on the boards also.
Touche' :rollside:
Why don't we pray for them. :rollside:

[Havasu1986]

Do you and Ktoy have 2 computers ,or are you guys pushing each other out of the way to respond to the threads. :crossx:

[3 daytona`s]

It looks like you just joined Jr. Did you join to comment on his threads.
Yea, I just joined (head hanging down) I`ll admit,but NOT to follow KILR by any stretch.You have to agree he`s a GLUTTON for punishment? He`s forever opening cans of worms,then when the shots begin he has a shit kiniption, What do you expect.I`m going to let this be my last deal here (hopefully)but if I was a permanent resident of LHC I`d take the stand if you don`t like it-----there are different ways you can finish the statement.I`m a little down now, I feel this is a TAG team against little old me,Mr,and Mrs Kilr vs 3 little boats.You should be ashamed. BTW Mrs. you`re SMOKING :)

[Her454]

Why don't we pray for them. :rollside:
Don't let your husband catch you. :rollside:

[Jesster]

Jefferson:
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
You gotta love Jefferson....With all of these neo-conservatives waving the anti-christian flag, and the nation listening to there demagoguery about every topic from terrorists, immigration, and seperation of church and state, you've gotta stop and wonder what f*ckin constitution are they following?? The founding fathers would've hung Bush and all his cronnies for treason! Illegal wire tapping, bogus war in Iraq, 911 misleadings and misinformation, etc......
my .02
bignet
You lost me at the founding fathers would have hung Bush. They might be irritated that the party has let itself be brought down to the level it is with big government and prescription drug programs but I think given the 2 parties to look at they would probably say that the only one with any hope would be the Republican party.
I guess they would have hung Lincoln also for setting aside parts of the constitution during times of war.
Bogus war in Iraq is your opinion mine is "better there than here". I haven’t seen any attacks since they are all centralized in Iraq. I'm not saying I think that is why we went to war there, just that it is a benefit of that war.
9/11 misleading and misinformation??? Every country with a half decent intelligence community thought exactly as we did.
I like the quote though. :rollside:
If you have a few minutes it’s a long read this pretty much sums up why Iraq is so important right now.
Here (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125907)