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BowTie Rick
09-15-2006, 03:19 PM
From Cycle News:
MOTOCROSS - No More Two Strokes
Posted By Paul Carruthers
That's It 9/15/2006
The following is from Honda...
American Honda recently advised dealers that its current line of two-stroke motocross machines will be discontinued after the 2007 model year.
“This decision reflects Honda’s commitment to environmental leadership in the markets in which we compete,” stated Honda Motorcycle Division Senior Vice President, Ray Blank.
“U.S. market trends and the success of Honda’s revolutionary Unicam™ four stroke motocross and off-road machines, bolstered by the 2007 CRF150R, make this a logical evolution of our product line.”

Tom Brown
09-15-2006, 03:21 PM
2 strokes rule! :cool:

AZJD
09-15-2006, 03:23 PM
This plan has been in effect since 2002. My ex-father in law was the chairman of the board of directors for the AMA Pro Racing and had been talking about it since then. Compliance with new EPA laws and such!

HCS
09-15-2006, 03:25 PM
With the new 4 stroke technology I don't think 2 stokes are necessary any more. :rolleyes:

Tom Brown
09-15-2006, 03:26 PM
With the new 4 stroke technology I don't think 2 stokes are necessary any more. :rolleyes:
People switching to 4 stroke engines will miss out on new 2 stroke developments like raspberry scented tc-w3.

AZJD
09-15-2006, 03:29 PM
People switching to 4 stroke engines will miss out on new 2 stroke developments like raspberry scented tc-w3.
Would that be a penetrating oil?

Tom Brown
09-15-2006, 03:30 PM
Would that be a penetrating oil?
Could be. :idea:

reDECKulous
09-15-2006, 03:34 PM
I hate 4 strokes... I'll stick with the 2 strokes as long as I can... and yes I've ridden the new 4 strokes... and yes they ride nice... but there is nothing like that stroke sound and snap

RitcheyRch
09-15-2006, 05:07 PM
I'll second that.
2 strokes rule! :cool:

wsuwrhr
09-15-2006, 05:57 PM
The X games as we know it may cease to exist without a two cycle engine.
We will see if the new generation can pull off the tricks with a 4 cycle engine.
Maybe it is the right thing to do. I don't like it.
As far as I know, Europe is still using two cycle technology, so as long as we are sharing air, I just don't see this move as environmently friendly.
Brian

wsuwrhr
09-15-2006, 05:59 PM
I hate 4 strokes... I'll stick with the 2 strokes as long as I can... and yes I've ridden the new 4 strokes... and yes they ride nice... but there is nothing like that stroke sound and snap
I bought Banshees last year figuring it wasn't going to be too long until they either became more expensive to buy, or wouldn't be worth a crap.
I don't know which it will be.
Brian

HCS
09-15-2006, 07:59 PM
Are you guys up to speed on the 4 strokes?????
You sound like a bunch of old fogies.
X-Games will be the same....... :rolleyes:
I grew up with 2 strokes just like you guys. But there going by the way side.
You won't need to mix oil with gas any more. If you don't have to why bother? :argue:

wsuwrhr
09-15-2006, 08:01 PM
Are you guys up to speed on the 4 strokes?????
You sound like a bunch of old fogies.
X-Games will be the same....... :rolleyes:
I grew up with 2 strokes like you guys. But there going by the way side.
No won't need to mix oil with gas. If you don't have to why bother? :argue:
We'll see pal, we'll see.
You don't see anyone riding a 450 in X games now do you? Unless I missed someone, I have not.
There is nothing like the sound of a two stroke "on the pipe"
Brian

Tom Brown
09-15-2006, 08:05 PM
You sound like a bunch of old fogies.
Back in my day, we only had one stroke and I had to share it with 9 brothers.

HCS
09-15-2006, 08:10 PM
We'll see pal, we'll see.
You don't see anyone riding a 450 in X games now do you? Unless I missed someone, I have not.
There is nothing like the sound of a two stroke "on the pipe"
Brian
Ya..wing ding 2 strokes are the shit. I just think it's turning into old technology.
I don't think It's logical to have to go out and shop for Yamablend evertime I want to run my bike.
There's some bad ass 4 strokes out there right now.

hallett21
09-15-2006, 08:10 PM
ill put my yz250f against any 125 anyday of the week!!!!!!

HCS
09-15-2006, 08:12 PM
Back in my day, we only had one stroke and I had to share it with 9 brothers.
You guys play the banjo?

wsuwrhr
09-15-2006, 08:12 PM
ill put my yz250f against any 125 anyday of the week!!!!!!
With double the displacement I hope you would win.
What a race.
I got a supergas car I'll race your import with.
Brian

3 daytona`s
09-15-2006, 08:12 PM
Back in my day, we only had one stroke and I had to share it with 9 brothers.
THAT WAS A SHORT SOCIAL EVENT or were the chicks drunk already,or were you exaggerating :idea:

Tom Brown
09-15-2006, 08:14 PM
The chicks wouldn't put out so I left them for dead.
Actually, I'm heading out again right away.
They were happy to see me but weren't aware I was late. I would have thought they'd be talking me down by the time I got there but they were busy gib-gabbing about the latest trends in makeup. You know how the broads are.

hallett21
09-15-2006, 08:15 PM
With double the displacement I hope you would win.
What a race.
I got a supergas car I'll race your import with.
Brian
hey u now its a fourstroke and ill take that race then again i havent tried the streets

killerbeez
09-15-2006, 08:16 PM
2 strokes still dominate on a gncc level,especially in europe.Also there are alot of people who still prefer a 2 stroke for a woods bike rather than a 4 stroke.I just got rid of my 05 ktm 450sx and am considering the ktm 300xc just because alot of people say that it is like a 3 stroke,meaning that it has the torque of the 4 stroke but is still the light and snappy 2 stroke.

sorry dog
09-15-2006, 08:19 PM
Ya..wing ding 2 strokes are the shit. I just think it's turning into old technology.
Like Yaah... you know how 4 stroke are like the newest tech... and shit. Except I like heard that new year the new 8 strokes are gonna in and shit. I'm gonna hold out for that...it will be so clean that a fart will like mess up the emission test.

Tom Brown
09-15-2006, 08:20 PM
I just think it's turning into old technology.
There are engines that haven't been developed much in a long time but there are some pretty amazing 2 strokes with expansion chambers and other cool shit. 2 stroke is far from dead, as far as technology goes. How does 200 hp per liter grab you? ... on pump gas?
I don't see anything happening in 4 stroke that is more impressive than some of the best stuff in 2 stroke.
I don't think It's logical to have to go out and shop for Yamablend evertime I want to run my bike.
Hey... blow 20 bucks there, big spender. Buy it a gallon at a time. :D

3 daytona`s
09-15-2006, 08:23 PM
The chicks wouldn't put out so I left them for dead.
Actually, I'm heading out again right away.
They were happy to see me but weren't aware I was late. I would have thought they'd be talking me down by the time I got there but they were busy gib-gabbing about the latest trends in makeup. You know how the broads are.
You are the MAN :)

Run_em_Hard
09-15-2006, 08:26 PM
Two-strokes are awesome....I loved my Banshee.

deltaAce
09-15-2006, 08:27 PM
Honda will see their mistake when they loose market share to other 2 stroke manufactures. Then they'll be back with 2 strokes & call em "Honda Classic"! Environmental concerns? If everyone that owned a 2 stroke all rode at the same time for 2 hours, it wouldn't produce the emissions measured on a small section of an LA freeway! I never thought it to be much bother to mix up some gas to go for a blast!

wsuwrhr
09-15-2006, 08:34 PM
ill put my yz250f against any 125 anyday of the week!!!!!!
I'll tell you what, I'll bring a YZ 250 over and race your 250F any time, any day, of your week.
Think you will still win without your DOUBLE displacement adavantage?
Brian

wsuwrhr
09-15-2006, 08:35 PM
Honda will see their mistake when they loose market share to other 2 stroke manufactures. Environmental concerns? If everyone that owned a 2 stroke all rode at the same time for 2 hours, it wouldn't produce the emissions measured on a small section of an LA freeway! I never thought it to be much bother to mix up some gas to go for a blast!
Problem is, I am sure the others are planning the same thing, Honda was just the first to announce it.
Brian

wsuwrhr
09-15-2006, 08:39 PM
One of my billet case Banshees I made into a hybrid with twin Honda 250 cylinders. The motor looks wicked.
Bored and stroked it came out to 1200cc's. Mf'er made 230HP on alcohol/nitrous oxide. 180 HP on alcohol only.
Trailered everyone at the Banshee drags.
Brian
There are engines that haven't been developed much in a long time but there are some pretty amazing 2 strokes with expansion chambers and other cool shit. 2 stroke is far from dead, as far as technology goes. How does 200 hp per liter grab you? ... on pump gas?
I don't see anything happening in 4 stroke that is more impressive than some of the best stuff in 2 stroke.
Hey... blow 20 bucks there, big spender. Buy it a gallon at a time. :D

reDECKulous
09-15-2006, 08:42 PM
I will take a two stoke banshee over any quad... any day... four stroke engines sound like they should be in a gold wing

HCS
09-15-2006, 08:45 PM
I will take a two stoke banshee over any quad... any day... four stroke engines sound like they should be in a gold wing
So put a rap pipe on them.

thumbs
09-15-2006, 10:22 PM
You won't need to mix oil with gas any more. If you don't have to why bother? :argue:
Mixing some oil...BFD.
2-strokes are cheaper to buy and maintain by a large margin. I can do the top end on a 2 stroke at midnight before a race for about $75 bucks. A 4 stroke would be a week at the shop and $800. 2 stroke are eaiser to ride over long periods of time. 4 strokes can be a pain in the ass to start. 2 strokes are lighter but the 4 strokes are getting lighter every year. 4 strokes are louder which is bad for the sport just like loud boats are bad.
Just my 2 cents.

wsuwrhr
09-15-2006, 10:27 PM
Exactly.
those and many more
Brian
Mixing some oil...BFD.
2-strokes are cheaper to buy and maintain by a large margin. I can do the top end on a 2 stroke at midnight before a race for about $75 bucks. A 4 stroke would be a week at the shop and $800. 2 stroke are eaiser to ride over long periods of time. 4 strokes can be a pain in the ass to start. 2 strokes are lighter but the 4 strokes are getting lighter every year. 4 strokes are louder which is bad for the sport just like loud boats are bad.
Just my 2 cents.

Tom Brown
09-15-2006, 10:30 PM
4 strokes are louder than 2 strokes? :confused:

wsuwrhr
09-15-2006, 10:32 PM
4 strokes are louder than 2 strokes? :confused:
Yes sir.
And it is a deep sound, certainly not the ting-ting-ting of a 2 stroke.
Brian

Tom Brown
09-15-2006, 10:39 PM
2 strokes are so simple, you'd think way more amateur mechanics would be into them. It's not that hard to make power with them, either. In fact, if the biggest problem with them seems to be they generate so much power from such a tiny package that they can hard to cool.
I enjoy watching the 4 stroke experts soup up their 2 stroke outboards with big carbs and drilling holes in their mids for exhaust relief. They always gain at least 10 mph. lmao! :D :D :D
When a network specialist like me can swap a piston in a 2.5 Merc in a couple of hours, you know they're easy to work on. :cool:

GUGS102
09-16-2006, 06:48 AM
My bro in law rides pro for team green. He goes through about 12-14 bikes a year. For 07 he has only one 250 coming and that's for the endurocross in vegas. Kawi will also cease the 2 stroke production after 07.
I like my two strokes and will keep my banshee and 250, however, I will also get a 450 too. I really like the 250f on the track. I'm not a great rider and the confidence the compression braking gives along with a linear acceleration is a positive, at least for my use anyway.
Gugs

probablecause
09-16-2006, 07:00 AM
With the new 4 stroke technology I don't think 2 stokes are necessary any more. :rolleyes:
I disagree...
http://www.aflacracing.com/images/albums/userpics/10001/1987CR500-a640x480.jpg

wsuwrhr
09-16-2006, 07:02 AM
You might want to try a rear fender thouigh.
I wish I could start a 500, I always wanted to ride one.
Brian
I disagree...
http://www.aflacracing.com/images/albums/userpics/10001/1987CR500-a640x480.jpg

probablecause
09-16-2006, 10:59 AM
I used to have one but had to cut it way back after I extended the swingarm because the 12 paddle, paddle tire, ate it up. Just ordered a stiffer spring to alleviate that problem.

ratso
09-16-2006, 11:04 AM
I knew a few of those 500 2 stroke riders... Most of them removed their rear fenders too... unintentionally. :D

Tom Brown
09-16-2006, 11:05 AM
I've got a 1500cc 2 stroke. :cool:

ratso
09-16-2006, 11:08 AM
I've got a 1500cc 2 stroke. :cool:
Yeah, guess I need to update my avatar since I went Merc on the Stream. :idea:

Caribbean Jet
09-16-2006, 03:55 PM
4 strokes are louder than 2 strokes? :confused:
Four Strokers are louder, but 2 strokers sound like chain saws.
As far as the X games, there was one 250F there in the best trick contest.

spectras only
09-16-2006, 04:04 PM
The last time I rode a 2 cycle was back in 1966 .Never looked back .

THOR
09-16-2006, 05:01 PM
With the new 4 stroke technology I don't think 2 stokes are necessary any more. :rolleyes:
2 strokes are only necessary for those needing the 'katoom' factory and a ballsy motor. 4 strokes just dont hit as hard as 2 strokes.

THOR
09-16-2006, 05:02 PM
You might want to try a rear fender thouigh.
I wish I could start a 500, I always wanted to ride one.
Brian
It isnt that tough. My CR500 is a breeze to start. Smokes 450 is big hills too.

probablecause
09-16-2006, 05:13 PM
It isnt that tough. My CR500 is a breeze to start. Smokes 450 is big hills too.
I second that!

Tom Brown
09-16-2006, 05:31 PM
The last time I rode a 2 cycle was back in 1966 .Never looked back .
... and that's why you haven't been able to make anything of yourself.
Sorry bud. Had to. :D

VanDeano
09-16-2006, 07:23 PM
People switching to 4 stroke engines will miss out on new 2 stroke developments like raspberry scented tc-w3.
I believe this is Pre-mix oil. Maybe the new four-stroke will be like comparing how old diesel engine use to be compared to now. It wasn't that long ago when diesel engine were dogs off the line. Now diesel engine can smoke some gasoline engine off the line.

hallett21
09-16-2006, 10:06 PM
Four Strokers are louder, but 2 strokers sound like chain saws.
As far as the X games, there was one 250F there in the best trick contest.
ver true but when it comes to the supercross season you can barley find a 125 in the 125 class there all riding 250's. Now in the 250 class thats different it tink in a few years they will be able to have fourstrokes outrunning twosrtokes

Wake Havasu
09-16-2006, 11:05 PM
I bought one of the first Honda 250 Elsinores when they debued in 72.
http://www.honda.ca/NR/rdonlyres/eofm56n54kvnrbgyppxcrsk5vv4yolqi34w5532ntqzkbictot yposn7euitgo36ktjhmedkub633a/72CR250151.jpg

W.O.T
09-16-2006, 11:34 PM
i bought a brand new honda 450 after riding two strokes all my life. i was talked into it. everyone brags oh man their so much better. i rode it for a season and sold it. bought an 06 yz250. im much happier on a 250. whats so hard about mixing oil? i seriously think its much easier than changing an oil filter and oil every other ride. there is no doubt a 450 has more power and torque. its almost twice the displacement. i dont race professionally and im not looking for every little advantage. i can still smoke my buddies on the track or dunes with my 250. it takes more skill and a better rider to ride a two stroke to its full potential. i have more fun riding that bike as hard as i can pinned the whole time than lugging that 450 around. i guess it truly depends on what you want. i believe people will follow whatever the pros do. i think the ama rules killed two strokes. i just was not impressed with the four strokes. i guess ill be one of the last guys on one for me its the fun factor that matters the most.

bordsmnj
09-17-2006, 07:51 AM
a 450 actualy uses less displacement than a 250 two stroke per crankshaft revolution. i say this becuase the twostroke fires every rev. the 450 everyother. so the 2 stroke has cumbusted 500 cc worth by the time the other has only 450. i like the 2 strokes don't get me wrong. i think it's gay that there slowly getting outlawed by the tree hugger goons.

Beer-30
09-17-2006, 08:29 AM
Not so much for motorcycles, but this here is a bunch of crap:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/510/2433smoke.JPG

spectras only
09-17-2006, 08:56 AM
... and that's why you haven't been able to make anything of yourself.
Sorry bud. Had to. :D
:p . Tom , I thought more [ or bigger :) ] is always better .
Lets go 6 stroke instead of 2 >http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/02/24/crower-six-stroke-engine/
BTW my 1965 250 2 stroke Puch had dry sump oil injection system . No mixing was required :cool:

Tom Brown
09-17-2006, 09:23 AM
:p . Tom , I thought more [ or bigger :) ] is always better .
Lets go 6 stroke instead of 2 >http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/02/24/crower-six-stroke-engine/
As soon as someone releases a 6 stroke engine, a ton of people will line up to buy the superior technology. Everyone knows 6 is better than 4. 4 is better than 2.
I used to laugh when people would beat up AMD for still using DDR memory after Intel went to DDR2. Now that AMD moved to DDR2, a ton of experts on review sites are a little confused that it doesn't perform quite as well. " ...... but it has a higher number? http://www.CarlsonSpeed.com/~tombrown/QuickLink/eh.gif"
BTW my 1965 250 2 stroke Puch had dry sump oil injection system . No mixing was required :cool:
I've been beaten up for not taking the oil injection off the Mercury outboard on my ski boat but I like being able to top it up every spring and not worry about it.
Hey... how are you fixed for pictures of that bike? It sounds like a cool bike. I'm not much of a 2 wheel historian. :cool:

THOR
09-17-2006, 12:15 PM
where did all of these motorcycle "pros" come from ???? ........ i wish i had half as many replies on "my mx threads" as this one is producing :argue: it's not a suprise that all the 2-strokes are going to no longer be available (unless you buy a used one), so move on people, remember when they stop making the "iroc" ??? :rolleyes: keyes
Hey now, I reply and read them.

Tom Brown
09-17-2006, 12:54 PM
i wish i had half as many replies on "my mx threads" as this one is producing
Try a 2 stroke mx thread next time. You may enjoy the fervent response. :)

Redrider
09-17-2006, 01:43 PM
where did all of these motorcycle "pros" come from ???? ........ i wish i had half as many replies on "my mx threads" as this one is producing :argue: it's not a suprise that all the 2-strokes are going to no longer be available (unless you buy a used one), so move on people, remember when they stop making the "iroc" ??? :rolleyes: keyes
I thought the same thing... Where did all of these MX'r come from? :)
4-strokes are the future, check out the 2007 CRF150R, no more CR85... As for X-games, one rider rode a CRF250R in this summers games, watch next year, many more will be on 4-strokes.