Let's say I broke into your house.......

[ekbearly]

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country
protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of
illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the US might protect
its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once
here, to stay indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly understand the
thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in
your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds
and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've done
all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except
for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must add
me to your family's insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide other
benefits to me and to my family. My husband will do your yard work because
he too is hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part.
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who
will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there.
It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and
I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest, um, except
for well, you know. And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house,
contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing
you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice
and being anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my
language so you can communicate with me
Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America....

[Outnumbered]

...Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?!...
Because they are LIBERALS

[Jetdriver]

Couldnt agree with you more. What happened to this countries BALLS? :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Excellent analogy.....

[acatitude]

does that mean after you break into my huse and I put a couple 357 rounds in you because I saw that knife in your hand held high as you approached me after i said alto 4 times, That I have to bury you in my family plot???? :rollside:
or does that mean if I go clean charlies house at the river, he has to let me stay there forever?????/ do I get dock space????? :argue:

[W.O.T]

that is a good analogy. its very upsetting seeing the mindset of these damn liberals pussys. heres what they will get if they try to break into my house :rollside:
http://myspace-338.vo.llnwd.net/01156/83/38/1156868338_l.jpg

[probablecause]

Couldnt agree with you more. What happened to this countries BALLS? :mad: :mad: :mad: Just check my signature at the bottom.

[chub]

Lets' say you break into my house..... Let's say I shoot you with a gun..... You have nothing more to say! :p

[socalmoney]

Couldnt agree with you more. What happened to this countries BALLS? :mad: :mad: :mad:
The problem is this Countries balls were big and hung low but they hung low over Mexico. You see they didn't bother Mexico for a long time until the US somehow spawned these Super Liberals who has been showing them how to castrate us ever since. We need to reach down there and do a little jewel adjust.

[ratso]

that is a good analogy. its very upsetting seeing the mindset of these damn liberals pussys. heres what they will get if they try to break into my house :rollside:
http://myspace-338.vo.llnwd.net/01156/83/38/1156868338_l.jpg
...hope there's not more than two... :idea: :D

[stoker]

...hope there's not more than two... :idea: :D
Odds are there will be.

[RitcheyRch]

I'll 2nd that. Sad to see this country going to hell in a handbag.
Excellent analogy.....

[W.O.T]

Odds are there will be.
no kidding if there are i have a pump action home defender with a pistol grip. i havent shot it yet. and the little basset hound in my avatar has my back :)

[centerhill condor]

nice "over and under"...but a pair of handcuffs, a blindfold, and a boat ride with some "ballast" doesn't make near the racket, mess or noise..just an idea.

[W.O.T]

nice "over and under"...but a pair of handcuffs, a blindfold, and a boat ride with some "ballast" doesn't make near the racket, mess or noise..just an idea.
thats even better. thanks, my grandfather gave me the gun before he passed away. i really like it

[INSman]

You would then be looking at the business end of my Glock 33 :)

[Desert Rat]

Me... I'm the old fashioned type. I prefer a Colt Gold Cup 1911 with Corbon hollow points :crossx:
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h136/R8derfan47/Pistol45.jpg

[mmered8299]

Well you better send your kids off to Florida. I herd the fruit is dying on the trees over there because they can't get anybody to pick them. Soon you will thread why O.J. is so expensive at the market

[chub]

Me... I'm the old fashioned type. I prefer a Colt Gold Cup 1911 with Corbon hollow points :crossx:
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h136/R8derfan47/Pistol45.jpg
1911 - A1 GI from Springfeild Arms.

[VanDeano]

Excellent analogy.....
I agree

[Ziggy]

Lets say I crossed the Mexican Border Legally, bought the appropriate Insurance, drove down Baja, signed a binding 99 year lease and built a house for my family and guests along with several other folks.
Lets say 15 years pass and the Mex. Goverment suddenly decides the leases are void and takes all your homes. Yup, exactly how it went down for many.
So much of Mexico's system is corrupt, and all they are doing is bringing deceit and corruption on our side of the border.
We got enough of our own problems, we don't need theirs too.
I say build 3 walls after taking lessons from the East Germans on how to build and protect those walls.
I'm 100% for legal immigration, due process and assimilate to our society. Have clubs or assossiations to honor your Heritages.
Irish/American, German/American, Austrian/American, theres loads of factions to be a part of and be proud of your heritage.

[chub]

Lets say I crossed the Mexican Border Legally, bought the appropriate Insurance, drove down Baja, signed a binding 99 year lease and built a house for my family and guests along with several other folks.
Lets say 15 years pass and the Mex. Goverment suddenly decides the leases are void and takes all your homes. Yup, exactly how it went down for many.
So much of Mexico's system is corrupt, and all they are doing is bringing deceit and corruption on our side of the border.
We got enough of our own problems, we don't need theirs too.
I say build 3 walls after taking lessons from the East Germans on how to build and protect those walls.
I'm 100% for legal immigration, due process and assimilate to our society. Have clubs or assossiations to honor your Heritages.
Irish/American, German/American, Austrian/American, theres loads of factions to be a part of and be proud of your heritage.
Sorry Ziggy, But as per Mr. Rosevelt I believe when you become an American you leave the country you fled behind and need to asimilate to the American way. That's how we became so strong. Fock all this -------American Shiayt Either be an American or not! I will not stand down from this opinion and firmly believe that's what OUR founding fathers wanted.

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Because they are LIBERALS
George Bush is the biggest supporter of amnesty and is the one pushing hardest for relaxed immigration enforcement. Pull your head out.

[Kilrtoy]

You Would be
DRT

[Misogynist]

I say we have the INS gather the illegals all up and we put them in the empty shipping containers going back to china... after all.... that is where our manufacturing jobs have gone.

[Ziggy]

Sorry Ziggy, But as per Mr. Rosevelt I believe when you become an American you leave the country you fled behind and need to asimilate to the American way. That's how we became so strong. Fock all this -------American Shiayt Either be an American or not! I will not stand down from this opinion and firmly believe that's what OUR founding fathers wanted.
Thats what I said............Assimilate to our society...aka American. I feel very strongly about that because I am an immigrants child who came to this country and learned its language and abided by its laws.
There's nothing wrong with someone celebrating or remembering their heritage.

[Old Guy]

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

[Run_em_Hard]

jetdriver, it's called the great sellout of america, why?, for votes !! Look at the state of UTAH, They give them "driving cards" !!!! :mad:
Does anyone have that website that has the e-mail addresses of state officials so I can right some e-mails on this shit????

[Devil's Advocate]

...hope there's not more than two... :idea: :D
I'd say bring a semi-automatic to cover your bases.. :crossx:

[KreatinKaos]

Please be sure to bring your entire family ... I have plenty of ammo :crossx:

[SummitKarl]

I'd say bring a semi-automatic to cover your bases.. :crossx:
:idea: :)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2734kittygun.gif

[probablecause]

Lets say I crossed the Mexican Border Legally, bought the appropriate Insurance, drove down Baja, signed a binding 99 year lease and built a house for my family and guests along with several other folks.
Lets say 15 years pass and the Mex. Goverment suddenly decides the leases are void and takes all your homes. Yup, exactly how it went down for many.
So much of Mexico's system is corrupt, and all they are doing is bringing deceit and corruption on our side of the border.
We got enough of our own problems, we don't need theirs too.
I say build 3 walls after taking lessons from the East Germans on how to build and protect those walls.
I'm 100% for legal immigration, due process and assimilate to our society. Have clubs or assossiations to honor your Heritages.
Irish/American, German/American, Austrian/American, theres loads of factions to be a part of and be proud of your heritage.
Just ask the people at Water Wheel just south of Parker.

[Devil's Advocate]

:idea: :)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2734kittygun.gif
There ya go.. :D

[Outnumbered]

George Bush is the biggest supporter of amnesty and is the one pushing hardest for relaxed immigration enforcement. Pull your head out.
Did I say anything about Bush? Typical Liberal response---slam Bush and blame him for the world's problems. :rolleyes:
But since you mentioned it, Bush is hardly what I would call a conservative. Moderate would be more like it. Trouble is that he is the most conservative President we could ever elect in this country because it is becoming so damn Liberal here. I'm sure your boys Gore or Kerry would have been much tougher on immigration and social program reform :rolleyes: We would have none of these problems had they been elected :rolleyes: Who needs to "pull their head out"?

[SHOTKALLIN]

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country
protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of
illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the US might protect
its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once
here, to stay indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly understand the
thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in
your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds
and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've done
all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except
for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must add
me to your family's insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide other
benefits to me and to my family. My husband will do your yard work because
he too is hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part.
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who
will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there.
It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and
I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest, um, except
for well, you know. And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house,
contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing
you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice
and being anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my
language so you can communicate with me
Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America....
Wait a minnute here........
Not my opinion but just playing the devils advocate here.....
this is not the same analogy.
They didn't really break in......its more like an invite with a welcome. Thats how I see this soft stance on border security. It sickens me. There are too many sanctuary cities. It aint right but If I were them I would come too. Especialy with Bush's big ass welcome mat.
Again, not my opinion. I am for a big ass wall at the border.

[LakeTrash]

I like this solution.
Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas we use. The best way to stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal immigrants! That would be 11million less people using our gas. The price of gas would come down. Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the border. When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a canteen, rifle and some ammo and ship him to Iraq. Tell him if he wants to come to America then he must serve a tour in the military. Give him a soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it. After his tour, he will be allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country. He will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot. This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves. If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo. Problem solved.
LT

[LAND_LOVER69]

that is a good analogy. its very upsetting seeing the mindset of these damn liberals pussys. heres what they will get if they try to break into my house :rollside:
http://myspace-338.vo.llnwd.net/01156/83/38/1156868338_l.jpg
BLAMOOOO LIGHTS OUT BITCH :crossx:

[OGShocker]

Thats what I said............Assimilate to our society...aka American. I feel very strongly about that because I am an immigrants child who came to this country and learned its language and abided by its laws.
There's nothing wrong with someone celebrating or remembering their heritage.
Ziggy Hiel! :crossx:

[LAND_LOVER69]

I say dig a trench accross the border. Take the dirt and raise the city of new orleans. Then you take all of the gators that have taken over swamp land in florida and put them in the trench. There you have fixed 3 of the problems this country has.

[SHOTKALLIN]

they would make gator tacos...lol

[SHOTKALLIN]

solution.
three fences just like at the prison. electrify the middle one. problem solved. except for tunnels. I guess you can instal sensors that can detect tunneling.

[stoker]

The easiest solution is to not hire them. Eventually they will leave.

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Did I say anything about Bush? Typical Liberal response---slam Bush and blame him for the world's problems. :rolleyes:
But since you mentioned it, Bush is hardly what I would call a conservative. Moderate would be more like it. Trouble is that he is the most conservative President we could ever elect in this country because it is becoming so damn Liberal here. I'm sure your boys Gore or Kerry would have been much tougher on immigration and social program reform :rolleyes: We would have none of these problems had they been elected :rolleyes: Who needs to "pull their head out"?
Who says I'm liberal? You immediately blame the illegal problem on "liberals" and I pointed out the fact that the number one cheerleader for amnesty, guest workers, path to citizenship, etc. is George Bush, the Republican president. Why do you think that is? Could the number of illegal aliens in this country have anthing to do with the fact that the minimum wage has not been increased in 10 years? Who hires these people? Who makes money off them? If there wasn't money to be made somewhere do you think he would be so enthusiastic about bringing in more? Look beyond the end of your nose, you might actually see something.

[acatitude]

I like this solution.
Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas we use. The best way to stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal immigrants! That would be 11million less people using our gas. The price of gas would come down. Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the border. When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a canteen, rifle and some ammo and ship him to Iraq. Tell him if he wants to come to America then he must serve a tour in the military. Give him a soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it. After his tour, he will be allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country. He will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot. This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves. If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo. Problem solved.
LT
well you better never run for office..... this makes way to much sense.... i think you should forward this to the border patrol and white house great idea

[SHOTKALLIN]

The easiest solution is to not hire them. Eventually they will leave.
even racists are greedy and will hire them to make an extra buck.

[Howie Feltersnatch]

I like this solution.
Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas we use. The best way to stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal immigrants! That would be 11million less people using our gas. The price of gas would come down. Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the border. When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a canteen, rifle and some ammo and ship him to Iraq. Tell him if he wants to come to America then he must serve a tour in the military. Give him a soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it. After his tour, he will be allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country. He will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot. This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves. If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo. Problem solved.
LT
This is what the Romans did. Citizenship in return for military service. Only it wasn't 4 years, it was generally 10 years or more. It would be incredibly ironic if we were to adopt that policy.

[doesitfloat?]

I love all of the macho "I'd shoot the bastard" posts that always come out (complete with "cool" pics :rolleyes: ) when a thread like this is posted.
While I agree with almost all of you about the immigration issues and I like the "house break-in" analogy, the problem is that if all you macho guys truly had the balls to actually shoot an intruder, you'd be in the pokey for 8-15 years of your life. Not saying it's right...it's just true. The same bs, pansy mentality that is keeping our border wide open and sapping our national resources (schools, health care, etc.) also protects home invaders in most states.
So, sadly, if you guys do shoot someone with your big guns, say good bye to your family and say hi to Bubba.

[Kilrtoy]

the problem is that if all you macho guys truly had the balls to actually shoot an intruder.
YES I DO AND IT IS NOT EVEN A THOUGHT :rolleyes:

[LakeTrash]

You live in the wrong state. Any home intruder shot around here gets buried and thats that. Oh - if you do not think it will happen, you could ask the last one who tried it. Opps - not possible.
LT

[doesitfloat?]

YES I DO AND IT IS NOT EVEN A THOUGHT :rolleyes:
So, you (Mr. Law enforcement), would risk serving time and being away from your family for years, to shoot someone who is stealing from you and, otherwise, isn't a physical threat to you? WOW.
Again, I'm fundamentaly on your side, but because of the pansy laws that we now have, you have to think of the big picture (your life and family) and not the macho, knee jerk reaction of shooting someone who is stealing your silverware. My .02.

[doesitfloat?]

You live in the wrong state. Any home intruder shot around here gets buried and thats that. Oh - if you do not think it will happen, you could ask the last one who tried it. Opps - not possible.
LT
Let me guess, Texas? (I love Texas for this, BTW)

[Kilrtoy]

So, you (Mr. Law enforcement), would risk serving time and being away from your family for years, to shoot someone who is stealing from you and, otherwise, isn't a physical threat to you? WOW.
Again, I'm fundamentaly on your side, but because of the pansy laws that we now have, you have to think of the big picture (your life and family) and not the macho, knee jerk reaction of shooting someone who is stealing your silverware. My .02.
WHO SAID HE DID NOT THREATHEN MY FAMILYAND I, WITH GREAT BODILY HARM, WERE YOU THERE?

[doesitfloat?]

WHO SAID HE DID NOT THREATHEN MY FAMILYAND I, WITH GREAT BODILY HARM, WERE YOU THERE?
Easy on the caps, Barney Fife.
With your profession, you might be able to "stage" his threat to you, but for most, this is a sh!tty situation to be in...better to get the hell out and live to fight another day.

[QuickJet]

If someone breaks into our house, you have the right to defend yourself. Even if you kill the intruder in the process. I 'm sure some of you have heard recently about the 70+ year old lady that killed a guy in her house after he broke in to kill her. She was never charged. If someone breaks into your house, shoot first and ask questions later.

[QuickJet]

Easy on the caps, Barney Fife.
With your profession, you might be able to "stage" his threat to you, but for most, this is a sh!tty situation to be in...better to get the hell out and live to fight another day.
Why would you have to stage a threat if someone breaks into your house? The fact that they broke is ususlly interpeted as "intent to do harm" Unless of course it's Santa Claus!

[Kilrtoy]

Easy on the caps, Barney Fife.
With your profession, you might be able to "stage" his threat to you, but for most, this is a sh!tty situation to be in...better to get the hell out and live to fight another day.
Im not staging anything and for you to make a reference that I am DIRTY is even more absurd.
You said it yourself he was stealing my henckels valued at $450 and are sharp as a razor, he turned and began to come at me, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
By your answers you have already given, I would guess get stabbed and killed in your own house infront of your family, Hell now we cant leave any witnesses, so who is next

[doesitfloat?]

If someone breaks into our house, you have the right to defend yourself. Even if you kill the intruder in the process. I 'm sure some of you have heard recently about the 70+ year old lady that killed a guy in her house after he broke in to kill her. She was never charged. If someone breaks into your house, shoot first and ask questions later.
No, if someone breaks into your house and poses a physical threat to you, THEN you have the right to defend yourself (and even that definition varies by state).
If they break in and start robbing the place and you have the option of running out the door and calling the cops...but instead, you blast them in the back, you're going to jail. Sadly, there is precedence of this.

[Biglue]

If someone breaks into our house, you have the right to defend yourself. Even if you kill the intruder in the process. I 'm sure some of you have heard recently about the 70+ year old lady that killed a guy in her house after he broke in to kill her. She was never charged. If someone breaks into your house, shoot first and ask questions later.
You try that and we'll have to get a Quickjet defense fund here on the forums for you. In cali you have to pretty much be an inch from death before you can use lethal force to defend yourself. This mean the perp has to be charging at you with a weapon or pointing a firearm at you or your family.
People will always say how they can slip him a weapon in his hands after you shoot him. The cops are not stupid. How many times do you think they have delt with this fairytale?

[Kilrtoy]

The only time 459's dont turn VIOLENT, is when the house is empty

[Kilrtoy]

No, if someone breaks into your house and poses a physical threat to you, THEN you have the right to defend yourself (and even that definition varies by state).
If they break in and start robbing the place and you have the option of running out the door and calling the cops...but instead, you blast them in the back, you're going to jail. Sadly, there is precedence of this.
Robbery FORCE OR FEAR, NEXT QUESTION, need a shovel to dig any deeper

[doesitfloat?]

Im not staging anything and for you to make a reference that I am DIRTY is even more absurd.
You said it yourself he was stealing my henckels valued at $450 and are sharp as a razor, he turned and began to come at me, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?By your answers you have already given, I would guess get stabbed and killed in your own house infront of your family, Hell now we cant leave any witnesses, so who is next
No question...I'd shoot. You're threatened, period.
Here we go, as with most threads, getting away from the original story.
Based on the original scenario, there is an intruder who hasn't posed a physical threat. Everybody starts talking tough about shooting him. I say that if you are NOT PHYSICALLY THREATENED and have an option to get out of the house, you run. Not my style either, but it's the law.
2 different scenarios: one w/o physical threat and one with.
And, NO, I wasn't calling you dirty.

[Outnumbered]

Who says I'm liberal? You immediately blame the illegal problem on "liberals" and I pointed out the fact that the number one cheerleader for amnesty, guest workers, path to citizenship, etc. is George Bush, the Republican president. Why do you think that is? Could the number of illegal aliens in this country have anthing to do with the fact that the minimum wage has not been increased in 10 years? Who hires these people? Who makes money off them? If there wasn't money to be made somewhere do you think he would be so enthusiastic about bringing in more? Look beyond the end of your nose, you might actually see something.
Look snatch, I don't know why you are such a hater but lets keep the insults out of this discussion. You seem to enjoy throwing them around and they just make you look like a bitter person.
Anyway, your post is kind of rambling and I am not sure what your point is. But lets just clear up the fact that not all Republicans are conservative and not all Democrats are liberal. I would say that when it comes to immigration, GWB is a liberal. Lets also clear up the fact that the illegal problem is not new. It was around long before GWB.
And, for the record, I don't agree with GWB on immigration policy. The policy I agree with is too harsh for mainstream America and especially the liberals to digest. Which is my point I made in my first post...liberals are the root of the problem.
Liberals think it is OK to be compassionate to our Mexican brothers and let them come to our country illegally for a better life. They think it is OK to put water in the desert so the illegals don't die of dehydration when they are sneaking in. They think multiculturalism is OK and that once Pedro arrives we have to respect his ancestry and culture, tolerate his traditions, and make services and social programs available to him--in his language of course. Etc.
Snatch, do a little research and find out what a liberal and a conservative really is. Go read www.moveon.org or www.airamerica.com or http://liberalvoices.com and see what the libs really stand for. Its sickening to say the least.

[doesitfloat?]

You try that and we'll have to get a Quickjet defense fund here on the forums for you. In cali you have to pretty much be an inch from death before you can use lethal force to defend yourself. This mean the perp has to be charging at you with a weapon or pointing a firearm at you or your family.
People will always say how they can slip him a weapon in his hands after you shoot him. The cops are not stupid. How many times do you think they have delt with this fairytale?
Thank you for more common sense and less machismo.
It sucks BUT IT'S THE LAW of the land. Well put.

[Kilrtoy]

NO, I would not shoot them, but they would receive a severe beat down, ALready been there done that.
So then the cops show up and everyone says, why did you not kill him, he just got out of jail for the same thing last week.
turns out it was his 7th arrest for the crap

[doesitfloat?]

Robbery FORCE OR FEAR, NEXT QUESTION, need a shovel to dig any deeper
Lame, Kilr. Don't need a shovel...just need the time to find the several different cases that establish legal precedence (which I don't care to do) This HAS happened, men have gone to jail for using force in their own home.

[Biglue]

NO, I would not shoot them, but they would receive a severe beat down, ALready been there done that.
So then the cops show up and everyone says, why did you not kill him, he just got out of jail for the same thing last week.
turns out it was his 7th arrest for the crap
I have to ask. Were you already a LEO when you caught the perp in your house? We caught someone in our yard several years back and roughed him up a little bit and detained him. When the cops showed up he was ready to file charges on me and my pops over it. Did the "is there any firearms in the house" deal. Made us show proper paperwork....the whole 9 yards.

[QuickJet]

Not my style either, but it's the law.
2 different scenarios: one w/o physical threat and one with.
.
Show me the law. And the only way a person isn't a physical threat to you when they break into your house is if they have no arms or legs. People have killed people with their bare hands.
Again, please site me this law.

[Kilrtoy]

[/B]
Lame, Kilr. Don't need a shovel...just need the time to find the several different cases that establish legal precedence (which I don't care to do) This HAS happened, men have gone to jail for using force in their own home.
No it is not
you said burglary, so here it is
459. Every person who enters any house, room, apartment, tenement,
shop, warehouse, store, mill, barn, stable, outhouse or other
building, tent, vesselwith intent to commit grand or petit
larceny or any felony is guilty of burglary.
then you said ROB
so here it is
211. Robbery is the felonious taking of personal property in the
possession of another, from his person or immediate presence, and
against his will, accomplished by means of force or fear.
212. The fear mentioned in Section 211 may be either:
1. The fear of an unlawful injury to the person or property of the
person robbed, or of any relative of his or member of his family;
or,
2. The fear of an immediate and unlawful injury to the person or
property of anyone in the company of the person robbed at the time of
the robbery.
So in defense of these two felonies, no you would not go to jail.
Now the guy is running down the street and you pull out your 30/30 and blast the guy inthe back at 20 yards, yeah, you are gonna have some problems

[Schiada76]

No, if someone breaks into your house and poses a physical threat to you, THEN you have the right to defend yourself (and even that definition varies by state).
If they break in and start robbing the place and you have the option of running out the door and calling the cops...but instead, you blast them in the back, you're going to jail. Sadly, there is precedence of this.
If you break into my house while I'm home you're obviously insane and I will kill you as I would be in fear for my life. I won't need a gun to do it either but will use it instead of dirtying my hands.

[acatitude]

doesitfloat if your in fear of your life or your families, then you do what you have to do.. everyones level of fear is different and you will have a jury decide if you were right...... maybe... they can have the silverwear, but they better not be holding that butterknife and walking towards my kids bedroom.... that gets me real scared

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Look snatch, I don't know why you are such a hater but lets keep the insults out of this discussion. You seem to enjoy throwing them around and they just make you look like a bitter person.
Anyway, your post is kind of rambling and I am not sure what your point is. But lets just clear up the fact that not all Republicans are conservative and not all Democrats are liberal. I would say that when it comes to immigration, GWB is a liberal. Lets also clear up the fact that the illegal problem is not new. It was around long before GWB.
And, for the record, I don't agree with GWB on immigration policy. The policy I agree with is too harsh for mainstream America and especially the liberals to digest. Which is my point I made in my first post...liberals are the root of the problem.
Liberals think it is OK to be compassionate to our Mexican brothers and let them come to our country for a better life. They think it is OK to put water in the desert so the illegals don't die of dehydration when they are sneaking in. They think multiculturalism is OK and that once Pedro arrives we have to respect his ancestry and culture, tolerate his traditions, and make services and social programs available to him--in his language of course. Etc.
Snatch, do a little research and find out what a liberal and a conservative really is. Go read www.moveon.org or www.airamerica.com or http://liberalvoices.com and see what the libs really stand for. Its sickening to say the least.
if my 8 sentence post was too rambling for you I'm sorry. This one is only two lines long with only a couple of 3 syllable words.

[acatitude]

Kilr..... your just wastin your time with that hater..... but your gettin your post count up :rollside:
oh and doesitfloat..... id be real careful before you test your theory,,,,, you might break into someones house who doesnt know the law as well as you and boom, youll never know if you were right :crossx: :crossx:

[acatitude]

But I still wanta know if I break into charley or kilr river house and clean it all up, then they have to let me stay forever??????/ kool,, hey move that boat over a little senior, I need room fo mine, gracias

[Outnumbered]

if my 8 sentence post was too rambling for you I'm sorry. This one is only two lines long with only a couple of 3 syllable words.
Dude, you are such a hater. Just forget it. I try to have an intelligent discussion and all you can do is spout insults. I'm wasting my time here.
Later, snatch.

[doesitfloat?]

.
Now the guy is running down the street and you pull out your 30/30 and blast the guy inthe back at 20 yards, yeah, you are gonna have some problems
That's all I'm saying (or trying to say). If you don't have to shoot them and you do, there's a good chance of going to jail.
It has happened.
It sucks...I don't agree with it...I have a gun and am willing to use it...but if I have a choice to take the right out the front door (with my family) or take the left and go find the suspect inn the garage and shoot him, I'm suggesting taking the right and then there's no chance of some lame jury feeling sympathy for the unarmed robber.
You obviously know more about the technicalities and semantics of the law than I do. I'm just citing real world (not always logical) scenarios where guys have gone to jail regardless of what your bold print says.

[doesitfloat?]

doesitfloat if your in fear of your life or your families, then you do what you have to do.. everyones level of fear is different and you will have a jury decide if you were right...... maybe... they can have the silverwear, but they better not be holding that butterknife and walking towards my kids bedroom.... that gets me real scared
I couldn't agree with you more!

[Kilrtoy]

But I still wanta know if I break into charley or kilr river house and clean it all up, then they have to let me stay forever??????/ kool,, hey move that boat over a little senior, I need room fo mine, gracias
Well if your gonna bring the howard over and leave the keys in it, i guess that would be called a trade

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Dude, you are such a hater. Just forget it. I try to have an intelligent discussion and all you can do is spout insults. I'm wasting my time here.
Later, snatch.
HAHA! Come On! Don't quit that easy! I'm having a really slow day at work today and now you've gone and ruined my next two hours!
:argue:

[rodnjen]

It is just not a partisan issue, each side has its reasons for ignoring the problem, and it is a problem. Education and healthcare are suffering but noone has the sack to go after the people employing illegals. Hating and trash-talking isn't going to help, voting is a good start but there hasn't been anyone strong enough to carry the issue as high as it need to go.
I would be classified a liberal based on my voting history, but it doesn't mean that I am in favor of open borders, visas, drivers license or any other action that legitimizes or condones ILLEGAL immigration.

[doesitfloat?]

Well, after a little searching (and admittedly not finding what I wanted), I've discovered some good news for us all.
It seems that there has been a recent push to loosen the self defense (in homes) laws. These changes, in theory, make it harder to prosecute a homeowner for shooting an intruder. These "Castle" laws and/or "No retreat" laws are apparently being modified or broadened in 15 states with more to come.
So, regardless of how you interpreted my earlier posts, I think it's safe to say that we can all agree on this trend.
I'll still say that if there's an open door to get out...then take it. But, if you are forced to shoot, then the law just might be swinging more in your favor.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/07/us/07shoot.html?ex=1312603200&en=8ed7df43b9942477&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/sorerib/map.jpg

[doesitfloat?]

Unf*ckinbelievable ! Doesitfloat, do the people of Idaho know they have such a pansy livin in their state? I would suggest that you let your wifes boyfriend stay at the house most nights in case someone does break in so she and the kids will have some kind of protection. If you'd like to prove any of your idiotic theories, ya'll just come on down.
When in doubt->take um out!
Rio
LOl,
Dude, take a dep breath and read ALL the posts. I said (atleast 5 times) that I have a gun and will use it if necessary. But, I love my kids and wife more than anything and IF we can take a door with my kids and then call the cops, I'll do it. If I don't engage, then no one's hurt and we live.
Let's say I'm a tough guy like you and I know there's a robber in my garage. I can easily get my family safely out of there and to a neighbor's house. But NO, I grab my gun, take a swig of Whiskey, and go to the garage. I enter, take a shot but get shot. Now, I'm wounded and the prick or pricks robbing my joint can go rape my daughter and wife and/or kill them.
You're right, RIO. My manliness is much more important than the safety of my family (sarcasm).
You've been watching too many John Wayne/Arnold movies. And what's this "come on down" crap? I love it when you guys get all personal on these threads...

[NashvilleBound]

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country
protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of
illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the US might protect
its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once
here, to stay indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly understand the
thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in
your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds
and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've done
all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except
for when I broke into your house).
According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must add
me to your family's insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide other
benefits to me and to my family. My husband will do your yard work because
he too is hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part.
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who
will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there.
It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and
I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest, um, except
for well, you know. And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house,
contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing
you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice
and being anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my
language so you can communicate with me
Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America....
If you broke into my house you would likely not live to tell about it.... but on this immigration stuff....I am glad to see that Congress might actually pull their head out of their ass and do something about it.... but I am not holding my breath. I still say put the Nat Guard out there with live rounds. Broadcast it..... some would challenge it and die...after just a few casulties it would be over forever.....

[Outnumbered]

... I still say put the Nat Guard out there with live rounds. Broadcast it..... some would challenge it and die...after just a few casulties it would be over forever.....
That is the kind of thing I am talking about that will work but this country is too liberal to handle it.
Instead, we put water in the desert so they won't die of thurst on their way in...WTF? If that is not liberal I don't know what is. :mad:

[NashvilleBound]

That is the kind of thing I am talking about that will work but this country is too liberal to handle it.
Instead, we put water in the desert so they won't die of thurst on their way in...WTF? If that is not liberal I don't know what is. :mad:
I honestly dont watch anything but the weather and Extreme fighting. Never read the papers. I guess I live in my own little world...... what ? We have some drinking fountains out there or something?????

[Outnumbered]

I honestly dont watch anything but the weather and Extreme fighting. Never read the papers. I guess I live in my own little world...... what ? We have some drinking fountains out there or something?????
Wednesday, September 7, 2005
County OKs $25K for water stations in desert
Administrator Chuck Huckelberry notes it costs Pima $300,000 yearly to store migrants' bodies.
GARRY DUFFY
gduffy@tucsoncitizen.com
Pima County supervisors voted yesterday to again support water stations that help illegal immigrants survive treks across the desert, after hearing that it costs the county more to recover and deal with bodies than to fund the lifesaving program.
It costs about $300,000 annually to recover and store the bodies of illegal immigrants who die in Pima County, Pima County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry said.
The supervisors voted 4-1 to provide $25,000 for another year to Humane Borders, the Tucson faith-based agency whose members have provided more than 65,000 gallons of water to immigrants who have crossed into Arizona's deadly deserts over the past five years.
"It is a humanitarian issue where you have to draw on your own religious beliefs to try to prevent death," Supervisor Richard El said.
It also is about taxpayer money, he said.
"It costs the county about $1,500 for an autopsy," El said, "and that is without going out and dragging bodies out of the desert."
Supervisor Ann Day voted against the allocation, as she has each year.
"We really don't know if this is saving lives or costing lives," Day said.
Day said she believes providing water to illegal immigrants could be considered abetting in a crime and could violate federal law.
The belief that there will be life-saving water available in remote regions of the desert favored by immigrants may spur more to try to come into this country, she said.
If they fail to find the water stations, they often die, Day noted.
Critics of the Humane Borders water program echoed Day's concerns.
"No person can argue that making water available to illegal aliens - criminals - is not encouraging, aiding, and abetting those aliens committing that illegal act," Wes Bramhall, president of Arizonans for Immigration Control, told the supervisors. "The knowledge that there are approximately 50 or more water stations in the desert is a factor in these illegals deciding to attempt the invasion of our nation."
More than 225 probable illegal immigrants have died in the Arizona desert this year, according to combined reports from the Pima County medical examiner and the U.S. Border Patrol.
Without significant increases in federal and state aid to border counties including Pima, the cost of illegal immigration to local governments in southern Arizona is bound to escalate, Huckelberry said.
The county last year expanded storage for the Pima County Medical Examiner's Office to provide storage for 120 bodies, Huckelberry said.
"We expect to need to double capacity again next year" to hold 240 bodies, he said.
There is no federal or state reimbursement for the medical examiner's costs to store bodies or the incarceration of those arrested after crossing illegally, Huckelberry said.
Huckelberry told the supervisors it costs $8 million annually to hold illegal immigrants in the county jail system.
The supervisors also yesterday declared an Arizona-Mexico International Border Security Emergency as a step toward applying for additional state and federal funds to deal with the flood of illegal immigrants.
The action follows a declaration of emergency last month by Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano aimed at freeing $1.5 million in federal funds for use in border counties to cope with the environmental, medical, public safety and law enforcement issues created by illegal immigration.
In the request for emergency aid, Pima County Health Department officials ask for $2 million in additional state and federal funding to help recoup the costs to the agency for providing health-care services to illegal immigrants rescued from the desert.
The additional requested funding is far from a done deal, Huckelberry said.
"It just puts us in line to try to get some additional funding," he said.

[Outnumbered]

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/border/36540.php
http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=5030576
http://www.uswaternews.com/archives/arcsupply/4phoevolu2.html
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/politics/2302944/detail.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/26/AR2006082600673.html
http://www.minutemanhq.com/project/articles/art2005apr29.html

[Kilrtoy]

Well, after a little searching (and admittedly not finding what I wanted), I've discovered some good news for us all.
It seems that there has been a recent push to loosen the self defense (in homes) laws. These changes, in theory, make it harder to prosecute a homeowner for shooting an intruder. These "Castle" laws and/or "No retreat" laws are apparently being modified or broadened in 15 states with more to come.
So, regardless of how you interpreted my earlier posts, I think it's safe to say that we can all agree on this trend.
I'll still say that if there's an open door to get out...then take it. But, if you are forced to shoot, then the law just might be swinging more in your favor.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/07/us/07shoot.html?ex=1312603200&en=8ed7df43b9942477&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/sorerib/map.jpg
Notice the states that have that law are also the states that have a veryt low crime rate. Wonder if there is a pattern there... :boxed:

[doesitfloat?]

Notice the states that have that law are also the states that have a veryt low crime rate. Wonder if there is a pattern there... :boxed:
Yeah, also shocked to see that Texas isn't one of the states "softening" it's self-defense laws...Oh wait, that's right, in Texas, you already can shoot anyone!
In terms of self defense and capitol punishment, Texas kicks ass.
Like Ron White says regarding the death penalty, "...my state's putting in an expres lane!"

[NashvilleBound]

Wednesday, September 7, 2005
County OKs $25K for water stations in desert
Administrator Chuck Huckelberry notes it costs Pima $300,000 yearly to store migrants' bodies.
GARRY DUFFY
gduffy@tucsoncitizen.com
Pima County supervisors voted yesterday to again support water stations that help illegal immigrants survive treks across the desert, after hearing that it costs the county more to recover and deal with bodies than to fund the lifesaving program.
It costs about $300,000 annually to recover and store the bodies of illegal immigrants who die in Pima County, Pima County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry said.
The supervisors voted 4-1 to provide $25,000 for another year to Humane Borders, the Tucson faith-based agency whose members have provided more than 65,000 gallons of water to immigrants who have crossed into Arizona's deadly deserts over the past five years.
"It is a humanitarian issue where you have to draw on your own religious beliefs to try to prevent death," Supervisor Richard El said.
It also is about taxpayer money, he said.
"It costs the county about $1,500 for an autopsy," El said, "and that is without going out and dragging bodies out of the desert."
Supervisor Ann Day voted against the allocation, as she has each year.
"We really don't know if this is saving lives or costing lives," Day said.
Day said she believes providing water to illegal immigrants could be considered abetting in a crime and could violate federal law.
The belief that there will be life-saving water available in remote regions of the desert favored by immigrants may spur more to try to come into this country, she said.
If they fail to find the water stations, they often die, Day noted.
Critics of the Humane Borders water program echoed Day's concerns.
"No person can argue that making water available to illegal aliens - criminals - is not encouraging, aiding, and abetting those aliens committing that illegal act," Wes Bramhall, president of Arizonans for Immigration Control, told the supervisors. "The knowledge that there are approximately 50 or more water stations in the desert is a factor in these illegals deciding to attempt the invasion of our nation."
More than 225 probable illegal immigrants have died in the Arizona desert this year, according to combined reports from the Pima County medical examiner and the U.S. Border Patrol.
Without significant increases in federal and state aid to border counties including Pima, the cost of illegal immigration to local governments in southern Arizona is bound to escalate, Huckelberry said.
The county last year expanded storage for the Pima County Medical Examiner's Office to provide storage for 120 bodies, Huckelberry said.
"We expect to need to double capacity again next year" to hold 240 bodies, he said.
There is no federal or state reimbursement for the medical examiner's costs to store bodies or the incarceration of those arrested after crossing illegally, Huckelberry said.
Huckelberry told the supervisors it costs $8 million annually to hold illegal immigrants in the county jail system.
The supervisors also yesterday declared an Arizona-Mexico International Border Security Emergency as a step toward applying for additional state and federal funds to deal with the flood of illegal immigrants.
The action follows a declaration of emergency last month by Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano aimed at freeing $1.5 million in federal funds for use in border counties to cope with the environmental, medical, public safety and law enforcement issues created by illegal immigration.
In the request for emergency aid, Pima County Health Department officials ask for $2 million in additional state and federal funding to help recoup the costs to the agency for providing health-care services to illegal immigrants rescued from the desert.
The additional requested funding is far from a done deal, Huckelberry said.
"It just puts us in line to try to get some additional funding," he said.
Thats messed up. Let the Humain Border queers fund the damn thing themselves. I would not be surprised if somehow we hear about tainted water supplies in the "desert watering stations" ;) Just an educated guess.... :D

[Krazy K]

Hmmmm...$25,000 versus $300,000??? Let me think....Taxpayer money....
DUH!!! As stupid as it is putting those water things out there, by doing so, less taxpayer money is going towards the removal of the dead bodies.
If that is bad, then sue me...

[Rowboat]

While I agree with almost all of you about the immigration issues and I like the "house break-in" analogy, the problem is that if all you macho guys truly had the balls to actually shoot an intruder, you'd be in the pokey for 8-15 years of your life. Not saying it's right...it's just true. The same bs, pansy mentality that is keeping our border wide open and sapping our national resources (schools, health care, etc.) also protects home invaders in most states.
So, sadly, if you guys do shoot someone with your big guns, say good bye to your family and say hi to Bubba.
You must live in California. Here in Arizona it is ok to shoot intruders. Just make sure there dead cause they will sue you if there not.

[Rowboat]

Oops sorry didnt pay attention to see you are from Idaho. You got screwed when everyone from California moved there and brought there dumb laws with them. I like the Military service idea also. Serve our country to become a citizen. I love that idea. Great idea. I also think that we should do what israel doesn and everyone has 2 years of manadatory Military service. it would sure straighten up a bunch bunch of these dips*it kids whose parents dont pay attention to them or teach them right from wrong while they are growing up.

[CA Stu]

My, what a bunch of chest-beating Internet Tough Guys you are!
I bet all you Internet Tough Guys think that when a person (yes, they really are human beings like you and me) illegally enters the USA, they are not afforded any rights?
It's too bad that the Declaration of Independence reads "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--". I don't see anything about voiding your rights for trespassing?
And what about "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Ya know, I was going to write a long post on this subject, but I came across this on the web, adn I reckon he does a better job than I do. Take 5 minutes away from your bigscreen TV and your dinner to read and ponder the following.
I predict a good number of you will just dismiss it out of hand because you don't have the capacity of compassion and go straight back to your ITG / dick measuring contest. I hope at least one person reads it all and thinks about it.
Thanks
CA Stu
What ever happened to "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
They came here for several centuries for the same reasons – freedom and hope -- and then a Frenchman created a statue that embodied their hopes and dreams. And it embodied America's promise as well. "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
THE STATUE OF LIBERTY
I have been watching with a bit of sadness, and more than a little concern, the debate that has been raging over President Bush's Administration proposed guest worker program. I haven't seen anything definitive yet, but I have to admit that I have some uneasiness about what is being said, and what may be done.
First and foremost, I do not wish to trivialize the genuine fear and the authentic concern that most of the protesters of the proposal have expressed. Nor do I disagree with the legitimate anxiety over what the future may hold if this proposal is actually what is being portrayed, "a blanket amnesty for illegal aliens". That being the case there would be in fact, national as well as historical principles at stake, and we must be ever vigilant in the protection of our liberties as well as our sovereignty.
"Principles have no real force except when one is well-fed."
-Mark Twain
Immigration is now and always has been a tricky affair. The delicate balance of need and want, verses can and should. We can certainly understand someone living in desperate conditions wanting to improving their lot in life. What better place to do it than the greatest nation on earth. America is the envy of the world. We are a magnet, and a beacon.
Who wouldn't choose to be free, unless as is the case in too many places, they are incapable of understanding the reality of freedom. Who wouldn't want to have wealth, if we all agreed on what wealth really is. To someone without anything to feed themselves or their children, a neighbor possessing a sack of flour, is indeed wealthy.
To a nation of plenty, it has to be understandable that a desperate and starving parent wouldn't break down a door, or cross a sweltering desert to feed their child, or a family would risk their lives in a sealed boxcar to work for a steady meal.
I must admit, and state for the record, that as a policy, I firmly believe that all law breaking must be prevented, and law breakers should be punished.. the sooner the better.
That said, I may be a candidate for a flogging I might be at most a fugitive from justice, or at the very least a shameful hypocrite, because I have in the past, and without a moment of indecision would again, give employment to someone I suspect but cannot prove, may be an undocumented worker, ..yes, AN ILLEGAL ALIEN!
I have experience with this issue.. up close and very personal...
I AM A PRODUCT OF FORMER ILLEGAL ALIENS.. Thank God.
As a young boy, I watched as my 92 year old great Grandfather, an immigrant from the bowels of depravity in Italy, as he stood in a crowded church basement and took an oath, and recited the Pledge of Allegiance to his beloved country to finally become a citizen of the United States Of America. For him, becoming a real member of this wonderful country was the culmination of a lifetime of work, and struggle and hope, and prayers.
My great Grandfather, his aged body bent from years of hard work, managed to stand tall as he listened closely to my uncle, who whispered in his ear, everything that was said from the podium. In those days, hopeful immigrants had to study and be tested to prove they knew enough about this country, and it's founding, history and government, to be qualified to contribute to it's greatness.
He had done his homework, and he didn't want to miss a word.
It was that day, in the cold damp basement, in a soft grainy light, walls decorated with flags, and with his fine and honorable family looking on, he and a large group gathered to prove that they were worthy patriots. That day this proud man who had overcome language, illiteracy and poverty, was at last to be rewarded, he was finally a real American.
At the conclusion of the ceremony, he broke down and cried for the first and only time I ever remember in his long and distinguished life. At that moment, I remember thinking, it must be special to be an American.
Yes, my family crossed a border from Canada into the United States in the dead of night in hopes of securing a better life for their children. They suffered the pain of fear, poverty and ridicule to take a chance. What was being said throughout the world, was true, America was and still is a nation of opportunity.
I do hear the call of fears and doubt of my fellow Americans, and I share the pain when my neighbors hurt as a nation. There is real worry about the costs and loss of jobs. There are legitimate concerns about lawlessness, and precedent of the apparent "reward the lawbreakers", at the expense of the law-abiding and innocent.
"A great deal of talent is lost to the world for want of a little courage. Every day sends to their graves obscure men whose timidity prevented them from making a first effort."
-Sydney Smith
I know we cannot be the world policemen, or pantry. We are a mighty nation built upon a foundation of hard work and sacrifice. Much of that labor was done by immigrants, many of which were here illegally not by choice but by necessity. Many, as my family, didn't do it as a thief, but as poor frightened peasants, who came without documentation because the limits on Italians were reached, and they couldn't afford to wait until the bureaucracy opened the doors again.
Upon arrival, frightened and stranded in a strange place without money, friends or family, they did the unthinkable, they prayed and began working until they were safe, solid and accepted. They raised a family that contributed and their offspring went to war, and they became solid threads in the fabric of their chosen country. There were a few that gave my folks a boost, a chance, a lifeline until they were secure.
So now the dirty laundry, I did the same for others, but I am apparently not alone. This isn't a unique thought to bend the some rules to help those who need help when the need is the greatest.
History is replete with law breakers that did what turned out to be a blessing. There has always been a few that took the law into their own hands when it seemed that was the only way. Moses, was spared by a benevolent stranger. Thank God a man named Schindler broke the laws to save a few hundred Jews from the Nazi's and where would we be if the Underground Railroad was derailed, because it was against the law to save a slave.
"We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances - to choose one's own way."
-Victor Frankl
The overwhelming numbers of our newest immigrants aren't fleeing death, or slavery, and I am not Schindler, but I could see the desperation in their eyes and feel the need in their hearts. And what was I offering? A job, and friendship. A job that few Americans wanted, and friendship that has lasted decades.
"The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit."
-Nelson Henderson
There are jobs that nobody wants and few would do, unless they had no other choice, a situation which rarely arises in our country. But they are good jobs that need to be done. By and large these jobs are hard, thankless, dirty, repetitive jobs, at odds with a normal schedule. However, they are at the limits of those that need them.
Contrary to popular belief, almost no large companies would ever pay cash to save a few dollars, or underpay wages to a poor man because he is illegal. We never paid under the table, or less than the going rate because we were a well known company, and a scandal of that pettiness, would have harmed everyone, including hundreds of employees, almost all homegrown Americans.
"Something that has always puzzled me all my life is why, when I am in special need of help, the good deed is usually done by somebody on whom I have no claim."
-William Feather, The Business of Life
Lest you think it was all one sided, these workers were solid as a rock, and usually faithful as a clock. The work ethic in other countries is as it was in much earlier times in our history. The bottom line is they needed us, and we needed them. They stayed with me and climbed the ladder in the all American tradition, and I watched them with pride, and admiration.
For those that are really concerned about these poor people taking the bread out of your mouth, unless you are a pot scrubber, or a garlic picker, you are at little risk.. And to ease your mind, I have discovered a new money making venture, one that has a fabulous track record. This one has recent and past history has never failed to pay-off. It's remarkable in it's simplicity!
Here it is... bet against the fatalist, place all of your available milk money on the person needing something, and against the person wanting to keep it from him.. in short, betting against profits of doom.
Bet the farm, or the futon, that the screams are always louder during an election year, and the spin is more spit than polish. Just like the generations that preceded us the Italians, Irish, Germans, Haitians and Vietnamese, these folks will continue to be a blessing to our country. Take a deep breath and think about it without the shrill voices whispering apocalyptic threats.
Before you make your final decision on this matter, ask yourself a simple question. What would you do if you were in their place, but first, take a long look around your home, in you fridge and in your pantry.. and just for an added effect, and take an extra moment thinking of your children. Perhaps, you'll come away with a slightly different outlook. Then again, maybe not.. you have that right, my once removed, illegal uncles and a lot of others died for your right to be wrong..
I am proud of our President, he knew there would be anger and once again he faced the problem head on. Dealing with this now is going to save us all in the long run, and as to the near future.. remember we are free Americans thanks to our immigrant forefathers, and some day as in the past, these new Americans may well save you and your country...
"You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today."
-Abraham Lincoln
"One of the tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency."
-Arnold Glasgow
GOD BLESS AMERICA
from http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1055662/posts

[H20Advantage]

I got that email a few weeks ago and debated posting it. I think the author is right on with the analogy.
It's the Illegal in Immigration that I have issue with....... :mad:

[CA Stu]

I got that email a few weeks ago and debated posting it. I think the author is right on with the analogy.
It's the Illegal in Immigration that I have issue with....... :mad:
I think he's a shortsighted, frightened little moron.
Thanks
CA Stu

[H20Advantage]

I think he's a shortsighted, frightened little moron.
Thanks
CA Stu
And that is why we have the right to vote and exercise our own opinions in this country. Isn't it great that we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[CA Stu]

And that is why we have the right to vote and exercise our own opinions in this country. Isn't it great that we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Best country in the world, no doubt about it.
No wonder people will go through anything to be a part of it.
Cheers
CA Stu

[Itsahobby]

But the rest will be diving out windows just to get away.
Odds are there will be.

[Jesster]

Well you better send your kids off to Florida. I herd the fruit is dying on the trees over there because they can't get anybody to pick them. Soon you will thread why O.J. is so expensive at the market
Ill pay that extra 1.50 to save 5000.00 per illegal educated in CA. :argue:

[Jesster]

George Bush is the biggest supporter of amnesty and is the one pushing hardest for relaxed immigration enforcement. Pull your head out.
I agree George Bush is for the amnesty an I disagree with him on that BUT it is the LIBERALS in congress that are against controlling the borders they want the amnesty bill pushed through without a thought on how to control the borders afterwards. As a matter of fact I don't think they want the borders controlled because then in 10 years (or less) when they want to grant amnesty to a bunch more illegals they are granting amnesty to a bunch more LIBERAL voters. Think it through then pull your head out. :cry:

[Wake Havasu]

that is a good analogy. its very upsetting seeing the mindset of these damn liberals pussys. heres what they will get if they try to break into my house :rollside:
http://myspace-338.vo.llnwd.net/01156/83/38/1156868338_l.jpg
I live in Blue Peoples Republica Des California too.
If we defend our homes we go to jail and the burglar gets to keep the house.

[SHOTKALLIN]

Can anyone in Mexico or any other country apply for a work visa or green card to come here legally? If so does it cost money? How long is the wait once you have applied?

[SHOTKALLIN]

I also think that the Democrats as well as the Republicans are afraid to support firm imigration reform. This is because of the large #'s of Latinos in this country. They don't want to offend them and possibly loose thier vote. Plus the fact that Latinos reproduce more offspring traditionally. This producing more future voters. Who is willing to piss them off? I believe this to be the true reason. We are possibly going to elect a latino president in 20 years or less if 12 million illegals get citizenship.

[Outnumbered]

Hmmmm...$25,000 versus $300,000??? Let me think....Taxpayer money....
DUH!!! As stupid as it is putting those water things out there, by doing so, less taxpayer money is going towards the removal of the dead bodies.
If that is bad, then sue me...
Brilliant analysis. :rolleyes: It is a little more complicated than that. With that mentality we should just not put/keep people in prison because it saves taxes to let them go free. Don't shoot the bad guy because it will save taxes and attorney fees to just let him go. Don't pursue criminals in high-speed chases because someone may get hurt and sue the city. Hell, don't fight any wars because its cheaper to just stay home and do nothing. Pretty asinine logic that seems to fool too many people too easily. The cheap/easy way out is not always the best/right way.

[wsuwrhr]

I have heard this before and I have to say it is an interesting idea.
One serious way to prove your love for a country.
Brian
I like this solution.
Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas we use. The best way to stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal immigrants! That would be 11million less people using our gas. The price of gas would come down. Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the border. When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a canteen, rifle and some ammo and ship him to Iraq. Tell him if he wants to come to America then he must serve a tour in the military. Give him a soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it. After his tour, he will be allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country. He will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot. This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves. If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo. Problem solved.
LT

[voodoomedman]

Brilliant analysis. :rolleyes: It is a little more complicated than that. With that mentality we should just not put/keep people in prison because it saves taxes to let them go free. Don't shoot the bad guy because it will save taxes and attorney fees to just let him go. Don't pursue criminals in high-speed chases because someone may get hurt and sue the city. Hell, don't fight any wars because its cheaper to just stay home and do nothing. Pretty asinine logic that seems to fool too many people too easily. The cheap/easy way out is not always the best/right way.
I agree with all your posts so far. Geez I'd like you even more if you still owned the Ultra. :D
If people want to complain about taxes let's look at all the stupid stuff the government spends our money on.
And yeah give them a bottle of water and it is cheaper then picking up their dead bodies at that point but then let's look at how much it costs when we pay for their healthcare, kids schooling, social services etc.....

[Jesster]

Hmmmm...$25,000 versus $300,000??? Let me think....Taxpayer money....
DUH!!! As stupid as it is putting those water things out there, by doing so, less taxpayer money is going towards the removal of the dead bodies.
If that is bad, then sue me...
Leave the bodies there then, that costs nothing feeds the local carnivores and serves as a warning to others. But as somebody stated earlier thats to much for the pussified liberals.

[Jesster]

Best country in the world, no doubt about it.
No wonder people will go through anything to be a part of it.
Cheers
CA Stu
Do it legally and I have no problem with them. Until then they are just as equal and not breaking any of our laws if they stay on their side of the border. We will accept their huddled masses through proper immigration procedures but until then they are illegal.