U.S. border fence plan upsets Mexicans

[Phat Matt]

Am I missing something here? Why are we so wrong for protecting OUR borders? Is it our fault that there is no work in Mexico?
U.S. border fence plan upsets Mexicans By OLGA R. RODRIGUEZ, Associated Press Writer
Thu Oct 5, 5:06 PM ET
TIJUANA, Mexico - Mexico lobbied for six years for a comprehensive immigration reform that would allow millions to cross into the United States legally. Instead, they're getting a fence.
Mexicans — from leading politicians to migrants preparing to cross illegally — consider the U.S. plan to fence off much of the border shameful, offensive and ill-conceived.
President Bush on Wednesday signed a bill that would allot $1.2 billion for hundreds of miles of fencing along the U.S.-Mexican border and for more vehicle barriers, lighting and infrared cameras.
But migrants resting at a Tijuana shelter after being deported from the United States said more walls wouldn't deter them. Alfonso Martinez, a 32-year-old from southern Mexico, had been working as a farmhand for six months in Vista, Calif., when he was arrested and deported last week.
"Wall or no wall, I will try at least three times," said Martinez, who said he would try to cross by himself through Tecate, a mountainous town about 35 miles east of Tijuana. "I have three girls that I have to support, and in Mexico there is no work."
Mexican immigrants in the United States and the Mexican government had lobbied lawmakers for more ways to cross the border and work legally.
While Bush had proposed a temporary worker program, it didn't garner enough support in Congress for passage. The idea has been dropped by Washington, at least until after the November congressional elections.
Congress focused on security over immigration, arguing that the porous border could be used by terrorists who want to sneak into the U.S. undetected. There is no evidence that has happened, however.
The Mexican government this week sent a diplomatic note to Washington criticizing the plan for 700 miles of new fencing along the border. Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez called it an "offense" and said Wednesday his office was considering taking the issue to the United Nations.
But Ruben Aguilar, the spokesman for President Vicente Fox, said Thursday that Mexico had ruled out that possibility. He added he was "confident" the additional fencing would never become a reality because an immigration accord would eventually replace it.
President-elect Felipe Calderon Thursday criticized the U.S. plan, but said the case is a bilateral issue that should not be taken to any international organization.
"I think it is a deplorable decision that has been made by the United States Congress for the construction of this wall, and it does not solve our common problem, which is emigration," Calderon told a news conference in Santiago, Chile.
Guillermo Alonzo, a migration expert at the Tijuana-based Colegio de La Frontera Norte, said fences instead will force migrants to look for new ways to sneak into the United States and find new routes through deadlier terrain.
"When migrants are determined to cross, they find a way to jump the fences," Alonzo said. "Walls don't stop anything."
Alonzo cited the construction of a fence between Tijuana and San Diego, known in Mexico as "the tortilla wall." It was completed in the 1990s and forced migrants into the sparsely populated and dangerous Arizona desert.
While there are walls at various points along the border, the one in Tijuana is the longest stretch, running 14 miles west from the Otay border crossing and plunging into the Pacific Ocean.
It has become a symbol of the divisive immigration issue, a blank slate for graffiti, crosses, photos and other remembrances of those who have lost their lives trying to sneak into the United States. Some families, divided by the border, even meet at the fence, talking through the metal wires.
While the wall downgraded Tijuana from the illegal migration mecca it was in the 1990s, hundreds of migrants still come here, Alonzo said.
"Now smugglers hide migrants in trunks of cars or get false documents," he said.
Luis Kendzierski, a priest who directs a Tijuana migrant shelter, said building a wall is an unfriendly gesture that will lead to a hike in smugglers' fees and more migrant deaths.
Between 2001 and 2006, almost 2,000 migrants died while trying to sneak into the United States, according to El Colegio de la Frontera Norte.
"We are supposed to be neighbors and friends, and instead of building bridges and doors, we're building obstacles," Kendzierski said.
___
Associated Press writers Mark Stevenson in Mexico City and Luis Perez in Tijuana contributed to this report.

[soupersonic]

They still dont get it do they,they come here and mooch off all the tax paying legal citizens are we are supposed to like it and be friendly :rolleyes:
I think we should spend some more money and build a longer wall a couple hundred miles isnt enough, but its a start.I have researched my ancestors and they came thru Ellis Island,they did it the right way.Every one of them deserves respect.They helped make the United States what it is today.These illegals now days just want to come here earn money and send it to mexico . I say ..|.. good fences make good neighbors.After the fence is up, we need to be in sweep up and deport mode :mad:

[deltaAce]

Between 2001 and 2006, almost 2,000 migrants died while trying to sneak into the United States, according to El Colegio de la Frontera Norte.
Thats the deterrent!
Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez called it an "offense" and said Wednesday his office was considering taking the issue to the United Nations.
What a fool, like the U.N. has any say on us protecting our borders!
"When migrants are determined to cross, they find a way to jump the fences," Alonzo said. "Walls don't stop anything."
Most criminals are very persistant!
"We are supposed to be neighbors and friends, and instead of building bridges and doors, we're building obstacles," Kendzierski said.
I have a fence between my neighbor, it doesnt mean we're not friends! There would be a problem though, if I caught him on my patio using my BBQ with his friends!

[KreatinKaos]

F*ck the fence ... let's put in a mine field :crossx:

[moneypit]

I say we line the fence with Javalina (like a dog run). Electrify the fence. Then wrap it up with a mine field... Whoever makes it across can stay. :D

[Kilrtoy]

Screw a fence , Lock and load those cobra heli's and let them patrol the border the way the germans, Checz and russians did after WWII, Shoot on the spot...

[W.O.T]

Screw a fence , Lock and load those cobra heli's and let them patrol the border the way the germans, Checz and russians did after WWII, Shoot on the spot...
that works for me

[cdog]

F those cockroaches. They should be round up like cattle and sent back to thier 3rd world shit hole. To think you and I can get cuffed and thrown in back of a cop car for not paying a ticket. These shit heads are breaking serious federal laws and get away with it, really pisses me off. It's about time we take our country back! :crossx:

[DMOORE]

I have to laugh. Mexico is in the process of building a fence on THIER southern boarder. And, it is a FELONY to enter Mexico illegally. But somehow they are opposed to these measures in the US. BTW, since when did we (Americans) start caring what Mexico thinks of our policys in the US. It is a bit disturbing when criminals (ILLEGAL imigrants) have such a voice in our political system. Actually bullying law abiding CITIZENS.
Darrell.

[W.O.T]

F those cockroaches. They should be round up like cattle and sent back to thier 3rd world shit hole. To think you and I can get cuffed and thrown in back of a cop car for not paying a ticket. These shit heads are breaking serious federal laws and get away with it, really pisses me off. It's about time we take our country back! :crossx:
no kidding i wish this country was ran the way it should be. not f'ed up by politics and bleeding hearts crying for human rights. these people dont give two shits about this country and i sure hope something gets done about it. its only going to get worse if nothing is. im sure we can all imagine ten years from now how it would be if it continues like it has. just take a look around theres more of them every day. before you know it this place is going to be called
MEXIFORNIA

[cdog]

no kidding i wish this country was ran the way it should be. not f'ed up by politics and bleeding hearts crying for human rights. these people dont give two shits about this country and i sure hope something gets done about it. its only going to get worse if nothing is. im sure we can all imagine ten years from now how it would be if it continues like it has. just take a look around theres more of them every day. before you know it this place is going to be called
MEXIFORNIA
I'm gonna work my ass off and hopefully someday buy some land on Moorea island and be done with it all. Hell I'll even learn French. Better than being forced to learn spanglish. Go take a look at the Tahiti thread....

[deltaAce]

You know, I'd like a better life for myself, so I think I'll just hop the fence at Bill Gate's house & live in his pool house.

[cdog]

You know, I'd like a better life for myself, so I think I'll just hop the fence at Bill Gate's house & live in his pool house.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[YeLLowBoaT]

You know, I'd like a better life for myself, so I think I'll just hop the fence at Bill Gate's house & live in his pool house.
I think bill has more square footage in his house then some new england states...

[W.O.T]

You know, I'd like a better life for myself, so I think I'll just hop the fence at Bill Gate's house & live in his pool house.
perfectly reasonable, i mean your not there to break the law you just want to live in a nice place. hell youll even tidy the place up a little

[deltaAce]

perfectly reasonable, i mean your not there to break the law you just want to live in a nice place. hell youll even tidy the place up a little
Yea! And I would expect him to give me a job too!

[beernut]

its so messed up down there that now we will need a passport to go down and do volinter work(my wife does a dental clinic in little village in baja once a month) and we have had to pay to use airport runways, ect. :yuk:

[W.O.T]

their govt is so fuct up and corrupt yet they come here and bash bush and parade those mexican flags around. how dumb can you get? i believe they need to do more in this country than a fence. they need to crack down on people hiring these border jumpers. i can name a few places that do it. the city of escondido is trying to pass a law making it illegal to rent homes or apts to illegals. thats a great start hope it goes through.

[CARLSON-JET]

It is well past time to reintroduce Operation wetback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback) :crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :)

[Hardly Satisfied]

keep them over there more walls

[Seadog]

Illegal immigrants is the number two source of income for the Mexican GNP, so they do not want that to stop. Plus, if they cannot come here to work, there will be major changes in the government. Unfortunately, it will probably mean a leftist government takeover and a Chavez wannabe in charge. This could be a major disaster for us, especially if they work with the cartels against us.
As far as our side of the equation, most Americans want to stem the flow, but companies do not want to lose the cheap labor. Worse, is that all these years of using cheap labor has forced many skills to disappear among the American labor pool. Expect construction to come to a virtual shutdown if they start going after employers. The only reason that this has gone on for so long is that two groups are for the ilegal immigrants. The companies that require lots of temporary labor, like construction, and the rich liberals that sit behind their gated communities and avoid dealing with the real world. They have more money than the majority to give to lobbyists and PACs. They speak the language of politicians, money.

[HighRoller]

But Ruben Aguilar, the spokesman for President Vicente Fox, said Thursday that Mexico had ruled out that possibility. He added he was "confident" the additional fencing would never become a reality because an immigration accord would eventually replace it.
Vincente Fox tips his hand in that statement about what is coming in the future. The reality is that while we're planning on building a fence, President Bush has already begun the plans to make all of North America one big happy family. In case you doubt me, go to:
www.spp.gov (http://)
This is the website for the North American Security and Prosperity Agreement, an act that seeks to create a "North American Union." The Council on Foreign Relations said the following:
To that end, the Task Force proposes the creation by 2010 of a North American community to enhance security, prosperity, and opportunity. We propose a community based on the principle affirmed in the March 2005 Joint Statement of the three leaders that "our security and prosperity are mutually dependent and complementary." Its boundaries will be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter within which the movement of people, products, and capital will be legal, orderly and safe. Its goal will be to guarantee a free, secure, just, and prosperous North America
Great, just erase the borders and let all the cockroaches from Mexico waltz across. There are only two kinds of people from Mexico; those who are here and those who want to be here.

[seanv]

the u.s. military is always looking for live fire training....hmmm snipers can hone their skills, helo pilots, foot soldiers it's an untapped resource for training :crossx:
they can post signs that read " dont run...you'll only die tired" :crossx:

[Flyinbowtie]

The people who claim that fences don't work just have no experience with one that was built and manned properly. Fences still seem to work fairly well at most penal institutions, if memory serves.
They certainly work better than no fence.
Once the fence is up, the border is well-defined. Rules regarding screwing with the fence, crossing the fence, etc. can be published, and those who choose to do so can do so with the consequenses well understood.
We, as a nation really do need to do a couple of other things.
-Put an end to the motivating factors that lead U.S. citizens and compaines to hire illegals.
-Quit paying any attention whatsoever to the Mexican gov't.'s whining about being good neighbors, etc. If they want to play that game, they can start by cooperating with extradition efforts for cop-killers, drug-smugglers, and all the other felons hiding out in Mexico. How in the hell can we have a cabinet level post in the executive branch of this government labeled, "Homeland Security" when we can't even come even close to controlling who the heck gets in here? don't we need to be able to controll the doors before we start to clear the house? This would be comical if it weren't so absurd. Makes no sense whatsoever.
-Deport people who are here illegally. Period, end of story. If your first act upon entering this land is to knowingly violate it's laws, then you have already demonstrated your lack of respect for it, and you have no other skills to contribute that offset your lack of character.
-Work on improving the legal immigration routes and procedures for people who really want to come here and assimilate into this society by paying taxes, working in the above-ground economy, learning to speak the common language, etc.

[SHOTKALLIN]

All the Ilegals should be deported. Let them go home and protest, march, rally, coup attempt, civil war(whatever it takes). they need to overthrow thier own corrupt government. :crossx:

[SHOTKALLIN]

maybe we should have invaded mexico not Iraq.

[Keith E. Sayre]

I agree with all of you. This is stupid. Build the wall,
man the wall, send the illegals that are here home.
End of story and my post. there is no grey area here at all.
Keith Sayre

[SoCalSouthpaw]

"When migrants are determined to cross, they find a way to jump the fences," Alonzo said. "Walls don't stop anything."
Umm - hook around :220v: 20K volts :220v: to that beeatch and that wall will stop more than dirtbag illegals. :skull:

[SHOTKALLIN]

thats what ive been saying all along. Prison death fence :220v: :crossx:

[RitcheyRch]

Miguel for President. Even use some of those unmanned drones.
Screw a fence , Lock and load those cobra heli's and let them patrol the border the way the germans, Checz and russians did after WWII, Shoot on the spot...
And give you medical insurance.
Yea! And I would expect him to give me a job too!

[YeLLowBoaT]

Expect construction to come to a virtual shutdown if they start going after employers. .
I disagree, Yes some will be shut down, but Lots of contractors ( like me) Will not hire a illegal alien. So for the most part the only ones that will be shut down are the ppl that are hiring the illegals.
Whitch to be honest will be fine by me, its not hard to tell who is hiring the illegals and who is not. Actaully you can normally tell who is hiring them and who is not by the work.

[HighRoller]

I'd gladly pay 20% more for any product in exchange for all of the cockroaches to be thrown out of our country. They act like before there were "migrant workers" here that nobody built houses, picked lettuce or mowed lawns. Duh.

[Froggystyle]

I don't know what all of the hubbub is all about. I would seriously like to have the border be completely open. Make it all one big country. Maybe we buy them out or something.
Have you all seen the gorgeous beaches down on the coast of Baja? Or Puerto Penasco? There is some seriously nice shit down there. Lots of beaches, dunes, four wheeling, boating, etc...
I think it would be awesome. If it wasn't for the lack of order, I would be building boats out of Puerto Penasco right now. I figure with the way it works down there, I could run the whole town in a matter of years.
I am not even kidding either. Come on up as far as I am concerned. Just let me go down there freely and with our rights, laws, protection and priviledges.
I would move about 200 miles within the month.

[jbtrailerjim]

I don't know what all of the hubbub is all about. I would seriously like to have the border be completely open. Make it all one big country. Maybe we buy them out or something.
Have you all seen the gorgeous beaches down on the coast of Baja? Or Puerto Penasco? There is some seriously nice shit down there. Lots of beaches, dunes, four wheeling, boating, etc...
I think it would be awesome. If it wasn't for the lack of order, I would be building boats out of Puerto Penasco right now. I figure with the way it works down there, I could run the whole town in a matter of years.
I am not even kidding either. Come on up as far as I am concerned. Just let me go down there freely and with our rights, laws, protection and priviledges.
I would move about 200 miles within the month.
Yeah, thats a great solution. Then we can have millions of more of them up here pumping out babies, freeloading off our welfare system, and turning the USA into a big giant shithole like Mexico. :rolleyes:

[deltaAce]

More info on border fence,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/05/AR2006100501935.html?nav=rss_politics

[SHOTKALLIN]

no kidding i wish this country was ran the way it should be. not f'ed up by politics and bleeding hearts crying for human rights. these people dont give two shits about this country and i sure hope something gets done about it. its only going to get worse if nothing is. im sure we can all imagine ten years from now how it would be if it continues like it has. just take a look around theres more of them every day. before you know it this place is going to be called
MEXIFORNIA
its already MEXIFORNIA

[SHOTKALLIN]

I don't know what all of the hubbub is all about. I would seriously like to have the border be completely open. Make it all one big country. Maybe we buy them out or something.
Have you all seen the gorgeous beaches down on the coast of Baja? Or Puerto Penasco? There is some seriously nice shit down there. Lots of beaches, dunes, four wheeling, boating, etc...
I think it would be awesome. If it wasn't for the lack of order, I would be building boats out of Puerto Penasco right now. I figure with the way it works down there, I could run the whole town in a matter of years.
I am not even kidding either. Come on up as far as I am concerned. Just let me go down there freely and with our rights, laws, protection and priviledges.
I would move about 200 miles within the month.
Thats just it Froggy...they aint willing to give up none of the good sh it. even today an American cant buy property there. They have changed the law to where you can buy property through a trust but it has to be like 50 miles inland from the coast or something like that. Who is willing to trust that after what happend in Rosarito or Ensenada with the federalies stealing those American's land. This is already Mexifornia! How much worse could it be.

[THEPISTONHEAD]

Man you guys got me all spooled up. One word describes it all. "illegal" thats what they are......illegal immigrants......enough said. If I steal a new Ferrari because I want a better car.......its illeagal, but they send me to jail, not back home. So why the **** are we so damn nice to the wetbacks???? Build the fence, Dredge the rivers deeper, live fire games just like paintball.....whatever it takes.
My friend just experienced first hand the hospital situation in the ER. Its bullshit.
Have you had a kid lately....$34,000 .....why so much? cause we have to pay for all the illegals. What the ****!
My ancestors came to Ellis Island and learned english and payed taxes. Do they? NOPE ! Their is no comparison, so all you bleeding heart, tree hugging, fags need to stop comparing them. They are stealing your jobs, money, and country. Wake Up!!!!!
Arggggggggggggggggggghhh! Im so pissed.

[THEPISTONHEAD]

Did anyone see the episode of "30 Days" from Morgan Sperlock. What a crock of shit. They took a "Minute Man" and sent him to live with a family of illeagals. It would have made great TV except for one problem. The Minute Man knew spanish. What the ****..................That kind of defeats the purpose of the problem at hand now doesnt it.

[HavasuBarney]

Man you guys got me all spooled up. One word describes it all. "illeagal" thats what they are......illeagal immigrants......enough said. If a steal a new Ferrari because I want a better car.......it illeagal, but they send me to jail, not back home. So why the **** are we so damn nice to the wetbacks???? Build the fence, Dredge the rivers deeper, live fire games just like paintball.....whatever it takes.
My friend just experience first hand the hospital situation in the ER. Its bullshit.
Have you had a kid lately....$34,000 .....why so much? cause we have to pay for all the illeagals. What the ****!
My ancestors came to Ellis Island and learned english and payed taxes. Do they? NOPE ! Their is no comparison, so all you bleeding heart, tree hugging, fags need to stop comparing them. They are stealing your jobs, money, and country. Wake Up!!!!!
Arggggggggggggggggggghhh! Im so pissed.
What is really a crime is that you have a free education system available and you still can not spell!
I’m with Froggy on this one, open the damn border. One world, one people.
Get off your high horse.
:)

[Troy McClure]

I disagree, Yes some will be shut down, but Lots of contractors ( like me) Will not hire a illegal alien. So for the most part the only ones that will be shut down are the ppl that are hiring the illegals.
Which to be honest will be fine by me, its not hard to tell who is hiring the illegals and who is not. Actaully you can normally tell who is hiring them and who is not by the work.
I'm in the same boat as you on this one. I don't hire any illegals either (unfortunately, I can't say the same for some of my subs). Deporting illegals will help us legitimate contractors as we would not be undermined by the contractors that hire (or are owned by) illegals.
I actually have a customer that requires me to have $2M liability insurance (standard) and provide notices for each job however, on the smaller jobs and on paint and flooring she hires the illegal contractors. Why? Because they are cheaper, and she does not think that they need to have insurance to perform those jobs. After all, who could get hurt or what damage could be done by a painter, right? :rolleyes:
Get rid of those illegals, and I and my employees make more money, spend more IN THE USA and generate more business for everyone. I just do not understand the "open borders" train of thought. Just makes no sense at all.
Fence, moat, gunships, I'm for 'em all!
! :crossx: :crossx: :crossx:

[Starloans]

So why the **** are we so damn nice to the wetbacks???? Build the fence, Dredge the rivers deeper, live fire games just like paintball.....whatever it takes.
You said WETBACK! THAT IS NOT ALLOWED ON THE BOARDS! :cry:
BTW.....What did Jim Bowie say to Davy Crockett at the ALAMO?
A. ??
OK OK...that was bad. I apoligize. It wasn't PC. :rolleyes:
Here you go:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/43878NewCDL-med.jpg

[Troy McClure]

What is really a crime is that you have a free education system available and you still can not spell!
I’m with Froggy on this one, open the damn border. One world, one people.
Get off your high horse.
:)
The Illegal immigrant gets the same education and, I'm guessing, 75%? can't speak fluent English, much less spell. Your point about spelling is???

[Jesster]

What is really a crime is that you have a free education system available and you still can not spell!
I’m with Froggy on this one, open the damn border. One world, one people.
Get off your high horse.
:)
Explain the benefit (to Americans) of an open southern border to me. Not just spew nonsense about nice beaches either (sorry Froggy we don't need to increase our population by 120 million). Let them over breed and overpopulate their own country. There is a reason that, as the education level of a race goes up breeding habits go down. 10% of the entire Mexican population is already here and that’s a conservative estimate. 12 million people here illegally not paying taxes and sending roughly $20 billion a year out of the US that has not been taxed. The only ones benefiting from that are the illegals and western union. While we pay increased taxes, wait in line for the emergency rooms, dumb down our children so the "illegal Mexicans" can keep up, not to mention the increased traffic. We saw how nice traffic was when all the illegals went to their rally in LA.
"One world one people" so screw it that the vast majority of people coming in have no jobs. Our unemployment rate of 4.6% (6.9 million people) would skyrocket. There is a reason for legal immigration and that’s mainly so we can control the inflow of people to correspond with the growth of the economy and job marketplace. Illegals don't just hurt us they hurt every nationality that is trying to get into this country legally.
"One world one people" that statement says lets let all the Muslims (radical or not) into this country also. Hey screw it lets just give our country away to anybody that wants to come. Might as well, that is what we are doing now. All you have to do is cross attempt to cross the southern border 2-3 times you’ll get in at some point.
I am all for sending them all home but it won’t happen and would probably completely destabilize South America if we did. Then we would have a southern border that would be much worse as a neighbor than it already is.
.02

[jimslade]

Hire them to build it!

[BOOGEYMAN]

If there is no work in mexico then quit having kids dumb shits!!!!!!

[jbtrailerjim]

What is really a crime is that you have a free education system available and you still can not spell!
I’m with Froggy on this one, open the damn border. One world, one people.
Get off your high horse.
:)
If you really believe that, you need to pull your head out of your ass. Opening the borders is not the answer. :rolleyes:

[KreatinKaos]

Some game ranch down in Texas has guns with webcams on servo controlled mounts ... and for a price you can hunt online . A similar setup mounted along the border fence would likely raise a lot of money :crossx:

[Desert Rat]

Sorry Wes but a few beaches is not worth the problems it would bring!! So why don't you move your business to Mexico anyway, cheap labor and all! Can't for the life of me understand why a person who has fought for this country is so willing to give it up that easy??? Please explain...........

[hoolign]

the u.s. military is always looking for live fire training....hmmm snipers can hone their skills, helo pilots, foot soldiers it's an untapped resource for training :crossx:
they can post signs that read " dont run...you'll only die tired" :crossx:
Now that right there is a great answer! and an excellent sollution...but as all good ideas, it will be shot down by some bleeding heart liberal cocksucker and his dependeant on looking like a good follower staff! ..shoot every one of the pricks comming over the border! the women, the children and the target that is leading the way! blast em!....if it moves ..kill it! ( insert crying liberals here) because if ya don't start soon, it's gonna get worse! .
and if anyone of ya thinks this is a disturbed way of thinkin.. quit posting these threads! there is no other solution! and quit crying about taxes!

[Misogynist]

The reality is we.... yes... America is considered by Mexico as a "colony"... Their plan is to invade us and outbreed us and take back what was once a part of Spain. They allow their citizens here to vote in the elections back in Mexico... America is their 6th voting district. We are just a colony of Mexico. We just don't realize it yet. They send their poor here to suck up our social services and our politicians allow it. The only way to keep Mexicans in Mexico is to put some teeth in the laws. Detain illegals and put them on a chain gang for two years building the border fence. Forbid cash transfers from the US to Mexico. Impose harsh jail penalties to those that hire illegals.... even the casual laborers at Home Depot. The rich ruling class of Mexico are wringing their greasy hands while they export their poor to "el Norte". Why bother building schools and educating your poor when you can export the problem to another country and let them foot the bill. We should have invaded Mexico for breeding "weapons of mass destruction". I'm sure Mexican gang bangers have killed more people in the US than Saddam killed Kurds in Iraq. The American taxpayer has footed the bill for so many illegals here that we've probably spent more money than the war in Iraq has cost. But our spineless politicians are so afraid to "offend anyone". They bend over backward and kiss the asses of Mexican illegals because they are afraid of being called "racist", and yet at the same time they manage to "offend" 85 percent of the American voters already here. Time to clean house come election time. The illegal Mexicans are going to continue to invade our country as long as we give them a reason to come here. What kind of an outcry from the Mexican government would we hear if we started taking their oil without paying for it because of the social service bills left behind by their people? I'm so sick of our elected servants giving away my country.

[THEPISTONHEAD]

Havasu Barney,
Do you feel better about yourself now?
I fight for this country and this very cause everyday for a living here in South Texas. I have a right to say, spell, or type the way I want "Jackass." I see these illeagals coming over, I see the drugs coming over, and I see the desperaty too. Its my job as a Coast Guardsman as well as an American to protect this country from further detrement, and I do.
One World.............dude, turn on the t.v. and wake up.
And if you are wondering, yes, I do feel better about myself now. Your slam at me has made me stoop to your level, and for that, let me apologize to everyone else on the boards. Would you like to comment on my use of to many commas now?????

[HavasuBarney]

Havasu Barney,
Do you feel better about yourself now?
I fight for this country and this very cause everyday for a living here in South Texas. I have a right to say, spell, or type the way I want "Jackass." I see these illeagals coming over, I see the drugs coming over, and I see the desperaty too. Its my job as a Coast Guardsman as well as an American to protect this country from further detrement, and I do.
One World.............dude, turn on the t.v. and wake up.
And if you are wondering, yes, I do feel better about myself now. Your slam at me has made me stoop to your level, and for that, let me apologize to everyone else on the boards. Would you like to comment on my use of to many commas now?????
Next you’re going to tell me you’re a good Christian …right?
The word is ILLEGAL, BTW. Dummy!
Then you might just have to admit that the US does not want to keep the illegal immigrants out. Do you realize the amount of tax dollars and Government agencies that count on those people coming across our…. Borders?
Personally, I don’t think our government gives a damn about you or me.
This is a problem that will never be solved because the business of our Government depends on it.
I’m curious about your signature also…. American by the grace of god.
Does that imply somehow GOD chose you to be born on this side of some imaginary line?

[THEPISTONHEAD]

Man, are you just some tuff E-Thug that likes to talk shit for jollies.
I realize you just try to dig up more dirt on me by questioning my religion and my signatures but this is some "myspace" childish behavior.
I will however humor you, Im a Catholic man, and yes, I believe in God. Im very very proud to be American. I can tell by those overwhelmingly negative comments that you Sir, are not a proud American. Simply put, if you dont like this country.....................get the **** out. Our government is not perfect, but its considerably better then most out there. Its that "incompetent" government that you hate so much that gives you the very right to talk badly about it. Ironic.....isnt it.
I cant believe that you see a subliminal message in my signature as well as associatting it with a North/South parody. Grow up. Its a signature comment, not a auto-biography of my birth.

[Moneypitt]

Subject: CHEAP TOMATOES
This should make everyone think, be you Democrat or Republican
or Independent,,,,,
From a California school teacher - - -"As you listen to the
news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are
some things that you should be aware of:
I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language departmen
at a large southern California high school which is designated a
Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower
socioeconomic and income levels.
Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High,
Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are
protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
One hundred percent of the students in this school and other
Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch
program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of
milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with
fruits and juices that would make a Marrio tt proud. The waste
of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being
dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or
at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell
phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed
teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend
class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for
babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS
AT WORK)
I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk
losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need
for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up
buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of
which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the
appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to
have a free education in America. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute
teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant
students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so
much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores
and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.
Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc.,
etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this
country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
To my liberal friends: I hope you're really proud of how our
congress has helped to sell-out this country with this
pro-illegal policy.
To my bleeding-heart liberal friends who want to point out how
much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because
they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay
less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal
immigration and see theTRUE costs.
Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical
costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools,
overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more
for tomatoes.
We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a
disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it.
Does anyone in their right mind really think they will
voluntarily leave and return?
There are man y hardworking Hispanic/American citizens that
contribute to our country and many that I consider my true
friends We should encourage and accept those Hispanics who have
done it the right and legal way.
It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A
third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts
children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and
that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has
become so weak and worried about "politically correct" that we
don't have the will to do anything about it.
If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to
everyone you know.

[HavasuBarney]

Man, are you just some tuff E-Thug that likes to talk shit for jollies.
I realize you just try to dig up more dirt on me by questioning my religion and my signatures but this is some "myspace" childish behavior.
I will however humor you, Im a Catholic man, and yes, I believe in God. Im very very proud to be American. I can tell by those overwhelmingly negative comments that you Sir, are not a proud American. Simply put, if you dont like this country.....................get the **** out. Our government is not perfect, but its considerably better then most out there. Its that "incompetent" government that you hate so much that gives you the very right to talk badly about it. Ironic.....isnt it.
I cant believe that you see a subliminal message in my signature as well as associatting it with a North/South parody. Grow up. Its a signature comment, not a auto-biography of my birth.
I wonder if an E-Thug could meet his match on E-Hamony.com?
The reason for the question about God’s grace is twofold.
1. You speak about these (mostly Catholic) Mexicans as if they are somehow less deserving of basic human rights. It just seems to me that a good Christian would want to share everything they could to help thy neighbor, not put up a wall so you could hoard your goodies.
2. You seem to imply that God loves us Americans better than those Mexicans, I just wonder why that might be?
I did not say anything about not liking America. I only stated the business of our Government is dependant on porous borders and war. In fact I think our Government is very competent about fleecing US Taxpayers and attempting to hold us in a state of fear.
Come to think about it that is very much like the Vatican.
Billions and billions of Taxpayer dollars are spent because these people cross our Borders. It’s just business….. I actually think it's a crime.
That would make you a criminal and that is ironic.
:)

[THEPISTONHEAD]

Well you got me there, thats right, the cats out of the bag. Im a catholic, American loving, flag waving, double standard criminal.
You seem to be implying that im some inhumane individual. Far from it. There are laws, and I abide by them as well as enforce them. Nothing further............no more subliminal messages there Barney!!!!!!
When we stop illegals, they are treated with respect and with compassion. So before you go reading more into this...let me beat you to it. If we treated them with compassion, then let them stay.right Barney? Sorry, let me again reiterate that this country is structured on laws. Its naysayers like you that keep this country divided by always questioning things. Reality check, somethings are just cut and dry.
The reason our country employs people and has a business intrest in the borders and spends billions is due to the illegal acts such as oh, I dont know, maybee a small thing like ..................................Drug Trafficking, U.S. Safety, etc. Not just people crossing the border. Maybee we should let the drugs come through too. It will be one big world party!
Im guessing we could go on forever about this but I will try to refrain after this post. In closing, Im curious if you really believe in "One world, One person" Would you like Osama Bin Ladden and his buddies to come on over to your neighborhood? How about all the crazy suicide bombers going to your childrens school lunch rooms, etc. Thats a pretty broad statement. Think about it. I guess this country isnt half bad after all. Do me a favor. Hang an american flag off your house for all my brothers and sisters battling for your freedom overseas, because when they read your comments its like a big fat slap in the face.
Sincerley,
Jason Montgomery
U.S. Coast Guard
a.k.a. "The Criminal"

[Misogynist]

What amazes me is if you say you are against illegal immigration you are labelled a racist. I wholly agree with Moneypit.. Something has to be done. The vanity of most Americans leads them to believe that the Mexicans coming here illegally "want" to become "Americans"... WRONG... They don't give a rat's a$$ about America or american values. They have no intention of becoming citizens of this country. They want to come here and exploit our social systems and job opportunities. They want us to educate and provide free health care to their children and themselves. They have no intention of returning anything to this country in the way of taxes. They want to send a portion of their earnings "home" to Mexico. The second largest source of money in the Mexican economy is money being sent from America. The first source is their oil industry.
The only way to make them go back and stop coming here is to stop all cash transfers to Mexico. The American people are being taken for "suckers" as the illegals strip away the wealth of this country.
Growing up in the 60's, the jobs that most illegals take are "entry level" jobs that children used to do. I can remember getting up at 4:00 am when I was in college to clean out a bar and restaurant for spending money while I lived at home. These jobs are now taken by illegals.
This country is coming to a crisis and most people don't realize it. Our manufacturing jobs are being outsourced to China. As a manufacturer it is almost impossible to compete against Chinese goods. If you try to manufacture here in the US and have a good product, some a$$hole will take your product and counterfeit it in China. Then you get to compete against your own product being made offshore. The government won't stop Chinese manufacturers or their importers. So you basically get put out of business by your own designs. I've seen this happen to several people.
What jobs that are left are being more and more taken by illegals that send half their earnings to another country. That money should stay in this country to stimulate the economy. It was earned here, it should be spent here. This country is rotting from the inside out due to our government and their bleeding heart policies. Our government is supposed to work for the benefit of THIS country... Not China... Not Mexico... Not Iraq.

[wsuwrhr]

The first statement is the funniest.
I have been saying this for YEARS, I hear it all the time, "Who will do these jobs?"
Are people so stupid that they have no memory? We ALL did these jobs before.
In gradeschool, I had 2 and 3 newspaper routes when I was a youngster. I had a job afterschool when I was in High School.
Alot of my friends bused tables, did janitor work, broke down tires at a tire store, moved boards at construction sites, dug holes for Caltrans, other low-level low-skill jobs.
Give me a break, most of these jobs are now performed now by you guessed it.
Don't even get me started on manufacturing. I have been in that business my whole life.
When will people realize when we make NOTHING, we will sell NOTHING!!!!
It is that simple.
The Economy is structured so the money flows from one person's hand to the next, and so on. When money leaves the economy, there is less left in the pool to be distributed.
Manufacturing is one of the "base" products from which everything else derives from.
We are all so stupid. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
I think our wealth being transferred to China will be shot back at us, if we
are so brazen as to think we can win a war with China, we are in for a new reality.
Brian
The American people are being taken for "suckers" as the illegals strip away the wealth of this country.
Growing up in the 60's, the jobs that most illegals take are "entry level" jobs that children used to do. I can remember getting up at 4:00 am when I was in college to clean out a bar and restaurant for spending money while I lived at home. These jobs are now taken by illegals.
This country is coming to a crisis and most people don't realize it. Our manufacturing jobs are being outsourced to China. As a manufacturer it is almost impossible to compete against Chinese goods. If you try to manufacture here in the US and have a good product, some a$$hole will take your product and counterfeit it in China. Then you get to compete against your own product being made offshore. The government won't stop Chinese manufacturers or their importers. So you basically get put out of business by your own designs. I've seen this happen to several people.
What jobs that are left are being more and more taken by illegals that send half their earnings to another country. That money should stay in this country to stimulate the economy. It was earned here, it should be spent here. This country is rotting from the inside out due to our government and their bleeding heart policies. Our government is supposed to work for the benefit of THIS country... Not China... Not Mexico... Not Iraq.

[axkiker]

F*ck the fence ... let's put in a mine field :crossx:
Now I like that Idea :crossx:

[Misogynist]

I've been saying for years there is an easy way to keep illegal Mexicans in Mexico. When they are caught crossing the border, you don't release them back to Mexico, you put them on a chain gang for a year and make THEM build the fence. Since forced labor is unconstitutional, give them a choice. One year labor, or two years in a tent city like Maricopa county does with their criminals. Then enforce a law that if they are caught crossing the border illegally, they CANNOT even apply for entry or residency for 10 years. If they are caught a second time crossing, 2 1/2 years labor, or 5 years in tent city. Plus, impose sentences, NOT fines,,, sentences for those that knowingly employ illegals. Deny money transfers from US to Mexico. All bills caused by illegals shall have those bills payed by the government of their origin. Could you imagine the size of the bill we would be handing to Mexico? Seize their oil fields to pay for the services provided for by our government. Could you imagine how quickly MEXICO would be building a wall on their side to keep Mexicans in if the government had to pay for what they take here? I know that would never happen, but we have to work with what we can on OUR side of the border. Mexico and the Mexican government have a vested interest in sending their poor here. Not just for the humanitarian needs of the poor, but the enrichment of the country of Mexico. Mexico's economy would suffer if they didn't get all that cash for the illegals here. Cut of the money flow and the illegals will stop coming. Their f---ing government prints pamphlets to tell illegals how to cross the border, where to get free health care, where to get social services. To me... that is an act of WAR. The only difference between Iraq invading Kuwait is the Iraqis did it with weapons. But the end result is the same. The Iraqis went to Kuwait to strip out their wealth and send back to Iraq. That is exactly what the Mexican government instructs their poor to do here. The only difference is they, for the most part are unarmed.

[Froggystyle]

What a scared vibe.
What is nicer about San Diego than Puerto Penasco? Not much geographically. A hundred years ago, when shipping was a big deal a protected port like San Diego was pretty cool to have. That is why areas like LA, San Francisco and San Diego became metropolitan centers in fact. It isn't so important now, and bears nothing on my life in fact.
Who cares if "illegals" are here? Move. Our country is unwilling to face the problem, and unwilling to use force to resolve it. I am a peaceful man, and would prefer to look at the good side of illegal immigration. What if we were to swap areas? You guys are saying that 10% of Mexico is here already, that means that 90% is left IMO. I wonder what percentage is left in Baja? Let's suppose this... we open up the border. That allows us to buy land and have basic rights. Quid pro quo. My bet is, more Mexicans would move to where we brought properity than Bakersfield. If as a culture, Mexicans don't want to get educated, advanced or otherwise improved... fine. They can work for me on my spread in B.C. I am educated, advanced and improved over the day I started as a courtesy clerk at a supermarket at 14. I am also pretty far ahead of where I was working at a receiving desk at a Napa Auto parts, and I am light years ahead of back when I dug fence post holes for that summer when I was 13. If a 35 year old man wants to dig fence holes for a living... great. Good on ya. Leaves more room for me at the top.
Think of it this way... if you open the border, more will stay there, because we would make it better.
I would move. Mexico is one of the only countries in the world I would want to live in other than the US. And I would rather live in Mexico than Virginia. Seriously. Or Louisiana. I will take Florida over Mexico though. But not Illinois.
Hell, we did it with Hawaii... why not just expand the idea and go take this shit.

[wsuwrhr]

Sometimes I feel I don't know enough of what I should.
How DID we end up with Hawaii.
Maybe your idea has merit.
Brian
Hell, we did it with Hawaii... why not just expand the idea and go take this shit.

[AltarGirl]

I really don't think this barrier thing should even be an issue, there's already a fence there! :p When there's a fence, you don't cross it. If you do, you go back to where you came from. So simple, but the leaders tell everyone how horrible it is b/c they won't be able to get here illegally anymore. Again, all we're doing is reinforcing the fence & why it's there, I'm all for it

[THEPISTONHEAD]

What a scared vibe.
What is nicer about San Diego than Puerto Penasco? Not much geographically. A hundred years ago, when shipping was a big deal a protected port like San Diego was pretty cool to have. That is why areas like LA, San Francisco and San Diego became metropolitan centers in fact. It isn't so important now, and bears nothing on my life in fact.
Who cares if "illegals" are here? Move. Our country is unwilling to face the problem, and unwilling to use force to resolve it. I am a peaceful man, and would prefer to look at the good side of illegal immigration. What if we were to swap areas? You guys are saying that 10% of Mexico is here already, that means that 90% is left IMO. I wonder what percentage is left in Baja? Let's suppose this... we open up the border. That allows us to buy land and have basic rights. Quid pro quo. My bet is, more Mexicans would move to where we brought properity than Bakersfield. If as a culture, Mexicans don't want to get educated, advanced or otherwise improved... fine. They can work for me on my spread in B.C. I am educated, advanced and improved over the day I started as a courtesy clerk at a supermarket at 14. I am also pretty far ahead of where I was working at a receiving desk at a Napa Auto parts, and I am light years ahead of back when I dug fence post holes for that summer when I was 13. If a 35 year old man wants to dig fence holes for a living... great. Good on ya. Leaves more room for me at the top.
Think of it this way... if you open the border, more will stay there, because we would make it better.
I would move. Mexico is one of the only countries in the world I would want to live in other than the US. And I would rather live in Mexico than Virginia. Seriously. Or Louisiana. I will take Florida over Mexico though. But not Illinois.
Hell, we did it with Hawaii... why not just expand the idea and go take this shit.
The government is late to face the problem but I believe thats exactly what the thread is about now.....facing the problem finaly.
I understand what you are saying totally, but the problem isnt that they are here. Its that are tax dollars pay for their medical, educations, car accidents, etc. Believe me, I would love a spread down in Baja or Rocky Point but the other fact is it is just like Hawaii in that you can buy your land and build a house..........but you dont ever really own the land. Saw that happen to a friend of mine's father about 50 miles south of Rocky Point. As much as I would like to remember and live the life of Baja style simplicity, I just dont think its a reality most of the time......your correct though because there are a few people I know living the good life down there too.......legally!

[Froggystyle]

The government is late to face the problem but I believe thats exactly what the thread is about now.....facing the problem finaly.
We are currently incapable of facing the problem. Unfortunately, it would take an act 100% unrelated to illegal immigrant labor (international terrorism) to actually close that border. Mexican citizens will continue to come here because it sucks there. We have no say in making it not suck there unfortunately, so it is tough to blame them. We are 100% pure idiots for feeding, providing medical and welfare for them, but there it is. Our society and way of life has been put in jeopardy by people who have bought into the idea of a welfare state, and it is tough to blame those who are gaining the most from it. At the end of the day, in that story above where kids are getting childcare, over-funded schools and free food... so what? Their parents make $80 a day working their asses off and I damn near spend that on coffee in a week for the shop. It isn't like the story of that asshole who would go panhandle for gas money than get into her Escalade around the corner. They are going home to a shitty household with no real chance of improvement. We can only hope that a high-school diploma will break the cycle and allow an ascension out of squalor.. at least to some small degree.
I understand what you are saying totally, but the problem isnt that they are here. Its that are tax dollars pay for their medical, educations, car accidents, etc. Believe me, I would love a spread down in Baja or Rocky Point but the other fact is it is just like Hawaii in that you can buy your land and build a house..........but you dont ever really own the land.
I don't think that is the case in Hawaii. My parents owned their place, my grandparents owned theirs and I am pretty sure my uncle owns his hotel and the land.
As much as I would like to remember and live the life of Baja style simplicity, I just dont think its a reality most of the time......your correct though because there are a few people I know living the good life down there too.......legally!
If we had rights similar to ours down there and just had to obey the laws like everyone else... meaning, you aren't in danger of getting kidnapped, you have personal rights and freedoms and we could own our property purchased from whoever... I think we would magically turn that whole peninsula into the real Southern California. Borders aside, my ideal house is on the Sea of Cortez, with a front yard full of killer cactus and red rocks. I will welcome a readily available workforce, because I will want those cactus tended. I will have the first cactus topiary in the shape of a Trident Revolution. :D I will have a huge garage, and someone other than me or a "detailer" at $30 a damn car will keep all of the shit in it clean. Think about that for a minute. I used to wash cars growing up for $10 per and do a good job. That job is gone.
Until we pull our heads out of our asses and put some teeth into a border policy, we are begging for more of the same. The difference between alot of you and I is that I don't blame the people looking for a better life. I am one of them. If the tables were turned, I would be a running, jumping and swimming mother ****er.
"Legality" is relative. I am far more disturbed about the lack of reciprocation by Mexican officials on our part. They should be kissing our asses big time, but they are instead acting like dicks for the most part and that is where the pain kicks in.
You see when you feed a stray and it growls at you... you want it dead. **** that mutt. Ungrateful mangy little asshole. But if it takes the food and becomes your pal... we act in kind. Awwwwwww.... let's get rid of the mange. What's the matter little fella? Hungry? Bet you would like a steak huh? The reception to our wealth has become a stray that now shows up every night for food, but won't get your back. And, it knocks over the damn trash can if you forget to feed it.
A little gratitude goes a long way. If Mexico would make some movement towards paying taxes, helping with the welfare system or improving border security I think we would be a lot more receptive and forgiving towards the immigration.

[superdave013]

What a scared vibe.
Who cares if "illegals" are here?
Well you don't seem to care. With that said would you mind cleaning up the piss and shit behind my shop dumpster. Your "illegals" are really making a mess of it these days.

[stoker]

[QUOTE=Froggystyle]What a scared vibe.
Who cares if "illegals" are here? Move.
Why should I have to move? I don't think it is OK for them to come here and treat our land like they do in Mexico.

[Old Man Havasu]

What is really a crime is that you have a free education system available and you still can not spell!
I’m with Froggy on this one, open the damn border. One world, one people.
Get off your high horse.
:)
Wow! Sorry to hear that! And I'm so sorry if I offended ANY non-english speaking people of any nationality in my whole life. WHEW now I can live in So.Cal!! I feel so much better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :devil:

[stoker]

What is really a crime is that you have a free education system available and you still can not spell!
I’m with Froggy on this one, open the damn border. One world, one people.
Get off your high horse.
:)
Free education? I don't think so, unless you are illegal and don't pay tax's.

[Froggystyle]

First off... I am all about a fence. I firmly believe that if you make any effort to keep them out, you can regulate who shows up and deal with them accordingly. I am also for a complete cutoff of the infrastructure money going to illegal immigrants. I also believe that you have to be born to a legal citizen to become a citizen here. Otherwise, you are just an illegal infant. I think there should be more time spent enforcing laws than writing new ones. Right now there is just no downside to emmigrating. There is no repercussions, and only upside. In the worst case scenario, you get fed for a couple of days and sent back home. I don't consider death as a worst case scenario because you would have to be pretty poorly suited for the task not to have a good plan for getting water and food once here.
I think that coming over here and being able to blend in without speaking the language or contribute to society is disrespectful. Plain and simple. I certainly don't blame them though... how could you?
The blame is on us. For supporting industries that employ them, for rewarding them with jobs... however shitty, for not aggressively going after companies that employ them and worst of all for feeding them and paying for them once they show up. It all starts with that silly "born in America, you are an American" rule. Keyholes nicely with the "American by the grace of god" philosophy BTW... We are American by the grace of geography.
But I am a realist. I know we are not going to stop the cross border traffic, and I know that as a society we are far more concerned with keeping the status quo than fixing problems we created. We are a welfare state, and if you don't like it... so what? We created it. The same right to vote we cherish led to politicians who created it. Our penchant for charity re-inforced it and our inherent generosity and kind nature prevent us from cutting the stray dog off.
Everyone always says "turn the Middle East into frosted glass" or some ignorant shit like that. These are people who have zero concept of what that would actual entail or mean. They also have no consideration for how that looks to the world. **** the world? Whatever.
This problem is a global problem, and it won't get solved between here and Starbucks. Unfortunately, between here and Starbucks is where we spend all of our time, so little to no effort is spent solving the problem, or even realizing it exists.
Today I am far more concerned with a nuclear North Korea than the guy pissing behind Dave's dumpster. And to that, all I have to say is that you should put a urinal back there.

[THEPISTONHEAD]

This problem is a global problem, and it won't get solved between here and Starbucks. Unfortunately, between here and Starbucks is where we spend all of our time, so little to no effort is spent solving the problem, or even realizing it exists.
This is where I feel the right to speak out. I make every effort to better this country every single day, well almost......except my days off when I drive back and forth to Starbucks.
Another American by the grace of God slander...........its just a sig and im a proud American. Why do you guys insist on reading more into it? I know reading this I may sound angry......and I am, but not at you, just over the situation. I do agree whole heartedly that many people are all talk and will never take action. This is the case in many issues that plague the U.S. today. To date, my favorites are the "Trendy American" who after 9-11 hung a flag for the first time in thier lives, but its not there anymore. Guess they arent on sale or something. Another is Hanoi Jane.....people are watching her in movies after her 30 year vacation..........holy crap.....never mind, im loosing it already just typing. Im out.

[THEPISTONHEAD]

Free education? I don't think so, unless you are illegal and don't pay tax's.
Well Spoken and 100% true.

[Froggystyle]

Why should I have to move? I don't think it is OK for them to come here and treat our land like they do in Mexico.
So go stand guard. And see how it is against the mandate of the Border Patrol to leave their cars to pursue. Or see them have to catch the same turd over and over again. Or have to patriate some infant born two feet over an imaginary line. YOU voted for these politicians. "You" being the body-politic.
What you are offended about is what Americans as a whole have become. I am flat out ashamed. As such, I may... at some point in my life... choose to not associate myself with a country that is careening down a shit tube. I am NOT proud to be an American. I am proud to have my family, I am proud to have served in America's military and I am proud to be a Hot Boater. Far more than I am proud to be a citizen of what in my opinion is not just the most blindingly liberal group of people in the entire world, but more importantly a citizen of a culture that seems to be eliminating risk from life. Without repercussion or reprisal there is no order.
We are living in Rome. It too will fall. It will fall for all of the same reasons too.
Bitch about the illegals all you want, but go check green cards next time you get a boat built or an addition to your house. Before you buy lettuce, go check for green cards. Next time you get your car washed, check for them. I would LOVE to see a sticker on a boat that said "100% legal citizen built". I can say with complete confidence that our is, and I don't know of any others. I know of several for certain fact that are not. Every one of you complaining about illegals needs to look no further than their boats to find a part of the problem.
Or find something else to complain about.
If it makes anyone feel any better, I think that drugs should be legal too. Not because I want to do drugs, but because I don't think you are going to stop them under any circumstance and we are currently...
A) not profiting from the sale of them
B) creating an industry of scum and felons... and not just drug use and sale but murder, extortion, labor violations (when was the last time you heard of an OSHA-safe drug lab) and human trafficing.
C) focusing more on catching drugs coming in than people
D) fostering creation of an unsafe, unregulated set of products that people ingest in the most invasive of possible ways. For example... handling rat poison won't kill you... but boiling it, straining it and shooting it into your vein will.
Legalize drugs and you will solve most of the immigration problems in one shot. Make pot as tough to get as cigarrettes (and a lot more expensive) and you will remove the capability of hoodlums to make a good living with it. When was the last time you heard about the ATF taking down an illegal tobacco farm? Yeah... doesn't happen. No profit in competing with Marlboro. You will make a lot of room in the prisons when you let everyone who was caught with half an ounce of coke out, and you will free up the judicial system by keeping every hippie who gets caught with a joint out of the courts.
Do I like the idea of people lighting up pot on the street corner? No... but I don't like them lighting up cigarettes either. Cloves are the worst smelling creation ever. I would way rather smell some sticky-icky than cloves.
I need to be a dictator. Things would be way different.

[superdave013]

First off... I am all about a fence. I firmly believe that if you make any effort to keep them out, you can regulate who shows up and deal with them accordingly. I am also for a complete cutoff of the infrastructure money going to illegal immigrants. I also believe that you have to be born to a legal citizen to become a citizen here. Otherwise, you are just an illegal infant. I think there should be more time spent enforcing laws than writing new ones. Right now there is just no downside to emmigrating. There is no repercussions, and only upside. In the worst case scenario, you get fed for a couple of days and sent back home. I don't consider death as a worst case scenario because you would have to be pretty poorly suited for the task not to have a good plan for getting water and food once here.
I think that coming over here and being able to blend in without speaking the language or contribute to society is disrespectful. Plain and simple. I certainly don't blame them though... how could you?
The blame is on us. For supporting industries that employ them, for rewarding them with jobs... however shitty, for not aggressively going after companies that employ them and worst of all for feeding them and paying for them once they show up. It all starts with that silly "born in America, you are an American" rule. Keyholes nicely with the "American by the grace of god" philosophy BTW... We are American by the grace of geography.
But I am a realist. I know we are not going to stop the cross border traffic, and I know that as a society we are far more concerned with keeping the status quo than fixing problems we created. We are a welfare state, and if you don't like it... so what? We created it. The same right to vote we cherish led to politicians who created it. Our penchant for charity re-inforced it and our inherent generosity and kind nature prevent us from cutting the stray dog off.
Everyone always says "turn the Middle East into frosted glass" or some ignorant shit like that. These are people who have zero concept of what that would actual entail or mean. They also have no consideration for how that looks to the world. **** the world? Whatever.
This problem is a global problem, and it won't get solved between here and Starbucks. Unfortunately, between here and Starbucks is where we spend all of our time, so little to no effort is spent solving the problem, or even realizing it exists.
Today I am far more concerned with a nuclear North Korea than the guy pissing behind Dave's dumpster. And to that, all I have to say is that you should put a urinal back there.
well you caught me off gaurd with those earlier post. But I agree pretty much with all this other then the urinal. :)
Don't get me started on N Korea. Well ok, If I was in their shoes I'd prolly want a nuke also. If I was them (glad I'm not) I'd be watching what is going on in Iraq and try to make damn sure the no country invade mine.
Am I happy they have nukes? Of course not, but if what's good for the goose is good for the gander well what can we expect.
And now that you bring up the drug war ..... Do you think the fence will make weed prices go up? lol
Cheers

[YeLLowBoaT]

.
And now that you bring up the drug war ..... Do you think the fence will make weed prices go up? lol
Cheers
no, but the 35+ pot houses that were recently raided in the sac area did I am sure.

[Misogynist]

Here is the "catch -22 " problem. People have moved businesses down to Northern Mexico in an attempt to hire low cost labor. The problem? Graft and corruption. That is what the Mexican Government is all about, graft and corruption. You cannot get power to your building unless you grease some public servant with money. You can't get the water hooked up to your building unless you grease another Mexican official. You can't even get a building permit moved along until another hand has been greased. This is the legacy of Spain that Mexico inherited. American businesses are NOT going to put up with this type of bureaucracy. I've seen Mexicans here IN THE US doing the same thing. My neighbor had to grease the palm of some f---ing Mexican immigrant working at the Hollywood bowl to continue supplying them with some items. This is the legacy of Mexico and now they are trying to do the same thing here. If this country continues to allow this unchecked invasion we will soon have a standard of living just like Mexico. Why would anyone want to invest in Mexican property when some bureaucrat will tell you in a year of two that you have no right to the property because of some obscure Spanish land grant that his cousin holds? Foreigners are forbidden to own property along the coast line. Think how that hampers any desire to build resorts along the ocean. The Mexican should get down on their f---ing knees and praise the early Americans for booting their troops out of the southwestern US or this place would be an impoverished $hit hole just like the rest of their country. But no.... they come here and act like this is their country. I start to boil when I hear how these Illegals talk about "reconquista". How THEY are going to take back what is rightfully theirs. The United States is the ONLY... yes ONLY industrialized country in the world that grants citizenship based on the fact that you were born here. If you are in Germany and drop a child.. that child isn't considered German, that child is a foreigner born without a country. That child isn't entitled to any German benefits. It goes the same for Japan, Korea, China, Italy, France, you name it. If your parents aren't in those countries legally, you aren't there legally either.
If Mexico were to clean up it's act and allow foreign investment without all the b/s there wouldn't be so many illegals flooding across our border. But... the ruling class elite don't want it that way. They want to oppress their poor and exploit anyone in their country that wants to change things. Really, How different is the geography between San Ysidro and Tijuana? NONE... The reason Tijuana is a $hit hole is because of the Mexican government. I can understand people leaving an area because of a drought or some natural disaster, but Mexicans invading our country is a disaster caused by the Mexican Government. NOT BY US. They achieve their pride by breeding like flies. Despite no way to clothe or feed their children they just keep breeding. Of course... The Catholic church tells them to do so. The Mexican Government needs to be held accountable for the invasion. They need social reform that will keep people in their own country.

[THEPISTONHEAD]

I am NOT proud to be an American.
I just wanted to highlight this comment. Wow! And you served in the military and say statements like this. Talk about yet another slap in the face to our military men and women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow!
Not that you care but, I really respected your point of view until that statement. Take your business and family and move then. It really truley is that simple. Remember this is the same country that allows you to work hard and actually make something of yourself. Its the same one that allows you to build and sell boats and im sure your home and vehicles are nice too.........Wow is all I can say.

[Froggystyle]

I just wanted to highlight this comment. Wow! And you served in the military and say statements like this. Talk about yet another slap in the face to our military men and women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow!
I think you should. I am far prouder to be a member of the Hot Boat community than an American. Barbara Boxer is an American. So is Al Gore. So is Al Sharpton. So is Bill Frist, John Ashcroft, Joan Bokaer, Jane Fonda, Jimmy Swaggart, Janine Garafalo, Alec Baldwin, etc... None of which I am proud to be sharing the same atmosphere with let alone citizenship. You can be "American" just be getting squirted out of a womb here. What is there to be so proud of? The decisions our politicians are making are asinine. And believe it or not, I am not talking about Bush. I think put in the same situation I would have done things very, very similarly. We are soon to be living in a consequence-free society as a result. And we put up with it.
I chose my friends, I chose my career and I chose my lifestyle. I am proud of my choices. Being born in this country is through no fault of my own. I didn't earn the right to be here and I am ashamed about some of the people who can so easily claim to be just like me because we are represented by the same flag.
None of the aforementioned assholes made it through SEAL training. None own hot boats. None work for Trident and I didn't marry any of them. The reason is that the communities and relationships I have chosen exclude assholes like them.
Blown 472 is a troll, but I don't think he believes all of his spewtum. I am also willing to imagine that his own perverse view of politics aside, as a boater he is probably fun enough to hang with.
I am sure there are some schmucks on here, but I don't know any personally.
So, I stand by my statement. I am far prouder of being a Hot Boater than an American.

[Froggystyle]

BTW.. Anyone ever notice that the Americans who serve in the military tend to be a lot more "American-like" than the rest of the rabble?
There is a reason why we don't pay for drinks around guys like Trailer Park Cassanova... we have proven to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Get down with your bad self before I start making Puddle Pirate jokes about the Coast Guard.

[THEPISTONHEAD]

You make complete sense, but its very hard to swallow a blattent statement like that. I just have alot of faith in my country and try to be optomistic. Its in no way perfect. But I dont think negative comments help the matter either. I appreciatte your civil talks here. Its hard to interpret these posts sometimes because words read differently. You know what I mean. Respect was restored with the George Bush statement especially......I dont love the President but can you even imagine handling a shit sandwich like all the events of the last 7 years. I too would have handled things very similarly except I would have assasinated Mrs. Shehan. We all agree, well almost all of us, that something needs to be done to restore the country to its Greatness. Its still awesome. Im mean, hell, I can drink all the beer I want, bang my wife when ever I want, roll on my bike down the highway, and listen to bitchin music all day. Dont forget about things with big motors that float or have big rims. This country is the Sh*t !!!!!!!!
oh by the way, behind every good Navy wife is..................a.............well............ ............a puddle pirate. LOL!!!!
Good healthy conversation my friend!!!!

[wsuwrhr]

I hate to keep agreeing with you but once again I have to agree with what you say.
Geez, Say some stupid shit once in awhile.
"Ungrateful mangy little asshole." Classic.
Brian
We are currently incapable of facing the problem. Unfortunately, it would take an act 100% unrelated to illegal immigrant labor (international terrorism) to actually close that border. Mexican citizens will continue to come here because it sucks there. We have no say in making it not suck there unfortunately, so it is tough to blame them. We are 100% pure idiots for feeding, providing medical and welfare for them, but there it is. Our society and way of life has been put in jeopardy by people who have bought into the idea of a welfare state, and it is tough to blame those who are gaining the most from it. At the end of the day, in that story above where kids are getting childcare, over-funded schools and free food... so what? Their parents make $80 a day working their asses off and I damn near spend that on coffee in a week for the shop. It isn't like the story of that asshole who would go panhandle for gas money than get into her Escalade around the corner. They are going home to a shitty household with no real chance of improvement. We can only hope that a high-school diploma will break the cycle and allow an ascension out of squalor.. at least to some small degree.
I don't think that is the case in Hawaii. My parents owned their place, my grandparents owned theirs and I am pretty sure my uncle owns his hotel and the land.
If we had rights similar to ours down there and just had to obey the laws like everyone else... meaning, you aren't in danger of getting kidnapped, you have personal rights and freedoms and we could own our property purchased from whoever... I think we would magically turn that whole peninsula into the real Southern California. Borders aside, my ideal house is on the Sea of Cortez, with a front yard full of killer cactus and red rocks. I will welcome a readily available workforce, because I will want those cactus tended. I will have the first cactus topiary in the shape of a Trident Revolution. :D I will have a huge garage, and someone other than me or a "detailer" at $30 a damn car will keep all of the shit in it clean. Think about that for a minute. I used to wash cars growing up for $10 per and do a good job. That job is gone.
Until we pull our heads out of our asses and put some teeth into a border policy, we are begging for more of the same. The difference between alot of you and I is that I don't blame the people looking for a better life. I am one of them. If the tables were turned, I would be a running, jumping and swimming mother ****er.
"Legality" is relative. I am far more disturbed about the lack of reciprocation by Mexican officials on our part. They should be kissing our asses big time, but they are instead acting like dicks for the most part and that is where the pain kicks in.
You see when you feed a stray and it growls at you... you want it dead. **** that mutt. Ungrateful mangy little asshole. But if it takes the food and becomes your pal... we act in kind. Awwwwwww.... let's get rid of the mange. What's the matter little fella? Hungry? Bet you would like a steak huh? The reception to our wealth has become a stray that now shows up every night for food, but won't get your back. And, it knocks over the damn trash can if you forget to feed it.
A little gratitude goes a long way. If Mexico would make some movement towards paying taxes, helping with the welfare system or improving border security I think we would be a lot more receptive and forgiving towards the immigration.

[wsuwrhr]

There you go again.
So go stand guard. And see how it is against the mandate of the Border Patrol to leave their cars to pursue. Or see them have to catch the same turd over and over again. Or have to patriate some infant born two feet over an imaginary line. YOU voted for these politicians. "You" being the body-politic.
What you are offended about is what Americans as a whole have become. I am flat out ashamed. As such, I may... at some point in my life... choose to not associate myself with a country that is careening down a shit tube. I am NOT proud to be an American. I am proud to have my family, I am proud to have served in America's military and I am proud to be a Hot Boater. Far more than I am proud to be a citizen of what in my opinion is not just the most blindingly liberal group of people in the entire world, but more importantly a citizen of a culture that seems to be eliminating risk from life. Without repercussion or reprisal there is no order.
We are living in Rome. It too will fall. It will fall for all of the same reasons too.
Bitch about the illegals all you want, but go check green cards next time you get a boat built or an addition to your house. Before you buy lettuce, go check for green cards. Next time you get your car washed, check for them. I would LOVE to see a sticker on a boat that said "100% legal citizen built". I can say with complete confidence that our is, and I don't know of any others. I know of several for certain fact that are not. Every one of you complaining about illegals needs to look no further than their boats to find a part of the problem.
Or find something else to complain about.
If it makes anyone feel any better, I think that drugs should be legal too. Not because I want to do drugs, but because I don't think you are going to stop them under any circumstance and we are currently...
A) not profiting from the sale of them
B) creating an industry of scum and felons... and not just drug use and sale but murder, extortion, labor violations (when was the last time you heard of an OSHA-safe drug lab) and human trafficing.
C) focusing more on catching drugs coming in than people
D) fostering creation of an unsafe, unregulated set of products that people ingest in the most invasive of possible ways. For example... handling rat poison won't kill you... but boiling it, straining it and shooting it into your vein will.
Legalize drugs and you will solve most of the immigration problems in one shot. Make pot as tough to get as cigarrettes (and a lot more expensive) and you will remove the capability of hoodlums to make a good living with it. When was the last time you heard about the ATF taking down an illegal tobacco farm? Yeah... doesn't happen. No profit in competing with Marlboro. You will make a lot of room in the prisons when you let everyone who was caught with half an ounce of coke out, and you will free up the judicial system by keeping every hippie who gets caught with a joint out of the courts.
Do I like the idea of people lighting up pot on the street corner? No... but I don't like them lighting up cigarettes either. Cloves are the worst smelling creation ever. I would way rather smell some sticky-icky than cloves.
I need to be a dictator. Things would be way different.

[wsuwrhr]

I didn't take it as such, re-read the quote and in context.
I am not proud of where my state/country is headed either. From the sentiments heard based on some of the posts here, I can tell other people feel the same way.
Brian
I just wanted to highlight this comment. Wow! And you served in the military and say statements like this.

[Froggystyle]

oh by the way, behind every good Navy wife is..................a.............well............ ............a puddle pirate. LOL!!!!
Good healthy conversation my friend!!!!
Never deploying overseas will give you that opportunity. ;)
Since you are a Coastie that would make you taller than 5'10" right?
Anybody shorter has a tough time wading back to the beach if your "ship" sinks.
In all sincerity, before I left the teams in 2001 I didn't know a single SEAL with as much trigger time in a hostile environment than ANY Coastie I had met. That changed in 2001, but you guys hang it out there. No question.

[bordsmnj]

The reality is we.... yes... America is considered by Mexico as a "colony"... Their plan is to invade us and outbreed us and take back what was once a part of Spain. They allow their citizens here to vote in the elections back in Mexico... America is their 6th voting district. We are just a colony of Mexico. We just don't realize it yet. They send their poor here to suck up our social services and our politicians allow it. The only way to keep Mexicans in Mexico is to put some teeth in the laws. Detain illegals and put them on a chain gang for two years building the border fence. Forbid cash transfers from the US to Mexico. Impose harsh jail penalties to those that hire illegals.... even the casual laborers at Home Depot. The rich ruling class of Mexico are wringing their greasy hands while they export their poor to "el Norte". Why bother building schools and educating your poor when you can export the problem to another country and let them foot the bill. We should have invaded Mexico for breeding "weapons of mass destruction". I'm sure Mexican gang bangers have killed more people in the US than Saddam killed Kurds in Iraq. The American taxpayer has footed the bill for so many illegals here that we've probably spent more money than the war in Iraq has cost. But our spineless politicians are so afraid to "offend anyone". They bend over backward and kiss the asses of Mexican illegals because they are afraid of being called "racist", and yet at the same time they manage to "offend" 85 percent of the American voters already here. Time to clean house come election time. The illegal Mexicans are going to continue to invade our country as long as we give them a reason to come here. What kind of an outcry from the Mexican government would we hear if we started taking their oil without paying for it because of the social service bills left behind by their people? I'm so sick of our elected servants giving away my country.
this is it in a nut shell. this is exactly the reality. makes me ****in sick.
by the way, the president has one day left to sign the bill the says we must build a fence. so far he has only signed the bill to appropriate funds for the fence. i hope he gets it done. doesn't mexico have a fence on their southern border?

[THEPISTONHEAD]

Never deploying overseas will give you that opportunity. ;)
Since you are a Coastie that would make you taller than 5'10" right?
Anybody shorter has a tough time wading back to the beach if your "ship" sinks.
In all sincerity, before I left the teams in 2001 I didn't know a single SEAL with as much trigger time in a hostile environment than ANY Coastie I had met. That changed in 2001, but you guys hang it out there. No question.
Thanks for your work in the Navy my friend, and also for recognizing the Coast Guard. Not to many people know that our boys are still over there. Believe me, Ive done my fair share of deployments.....luckily they have all been Caribean deployments to bust drug runners and Hatians. I will say that the Mexican Broder operations are getting a bit intense these days......a ton of drugs and illegals being stopped, just dont have the resources to be out there 24/7. At the end of the day you do what you can and stay optomistic.

[stoker]

[QUOTE=Froggystyle]So go stand guard. And see how it is against the mandate of the Border Patrol to leave their cars to pursue.
I plan on it. I have joined the Minutemen and will be standing guard the next time they are at the border. I wonder if they will let me take my Rhino down there to patrol.
:rollside:
You might want to do the same with your Rhino. It might actually be fun :)

[Froggystyle]

[QUOTE=Froggystyle]So go stand guard. And see how it is against the mandate of the Border Patrol to leave their cars to pursue.
I plan on it. I have joined the Minutemen and will be standing guard the next time they are at the border. I wonder if they will let me take my Rhino down there to patrol.
:rollside:
You might want to do the same with your Rhino. It might actually be fun :)
Zero chance. I have many friends in the border patrol, and some that have stood the minuteman watch. It is, from what I understand, the most frustrating thing you can possibly do with your time. The border patrol doesn't want them there as they are a liability and basically whistle-blowing. When the minutemen catch someone or a group of people, they have been hung out "detaining" them for hours with no assistance. Keep in mind, you WILL be liable for any civil liberties violations to any suspected immigrants.
I am all for the idea, but unless it gets embraced as an added level of help by the border patrol, it is neutered completely.

[Old Texan]

I think you should. I am far prouder to be a member of the Hot Boat community than an American. Barbara Boxer is an American. So is Al Gore. So is Al Sharpton. So is Bill Frist, John Ashcroft, Joan Bokaer, Jane Fonda, Jimmy Swaggart, Janine Garafalo, Alec Baldwin, etc... None of which I am proud to be sharing the same atmosphere with let alone citizenship. You can be "American" just be getting squirted out of a womb here. What is there to be so proud of? The decisions our politicians are making are asinine. And believe it or not, I am not talking about Bush. I think put in the same situation I would have done things very, very similarly. We are soon to be living in a consequence-free society as a result. And we put up with it.
I chose my friends, I chose my career and I chose my lifestyle. I am proud of my choices. Being born in this country is through no fault of my own. I didn't earn the right to be here and I am ashamed about some of the people who can so easily claim to be just like me because we are represented by the same flag.
None of the aforementioned assholes made it through SEAL training. None own hot boats. None work for Trident and I didn't marry any of them. The reason is that the communities and relationships I have chosen exclude assholes like them.
Blown 472 is a troll, but I don't think he believes all of his spewtum. I am also willing to imagine that his own perverse view of politics aside, as a boater he is probably fun enough to hang with.
I am sure there are some schmucks on here, but I don't know any personally.
So, I stand by my statement. I am far prouder of being a Hot Boater than an American.
From a slice of America prospective, the "Hot Boat Community" far and away represents what I think is the high end of our society. We all tend to be responsible folks that know the real values of what society is and should be. We understand what "America" truly is and what the founding fathers were aiming towards.
It's clearly evident from the majority of topics discussed on the Hot Boat Forums, the membership is above average intelligence, have business and social skills that represent what "America is About", and represent the backbone of our society.
We all pretty much take care of own business and our communities. If our politicians would live by the same attributes as the members of our Hot Boat community the USA would be a whole lot stronger nation, more in line with what the nation was in the past. But I believe the Hot Boat Community and their friends and neighbors with like values will prevail and correct things in order to keep the USA on the topshelf.

[stoker]

Zero chance. I have many friends in the border patrol, and some that have stood the minuteman watch. It is, from what I understand, the most frustrating thing you can possibly do with your time. The border patrol doesn't want them there as they are a liability and basically whistle-blowing. When the minutemen catch someone or a group of people, they have been hung out "detaining" them for hours with no assistance. Keep in mind, you WILL be liable for any civil liberties violations to any suspected immigrants.
I am all for the idea, but unless it gets embraced as an added level of help by the border patrol, it is neutered completely.
I would think that many of the illegals would at least think twice about crossing if they see that we are standing guard. I agree it might not be 100% effective but it's a start and every little bit helps.
Keep in mind that much of the attention brought to the border situation stemmed from groups like the Minuteman and Grassfire.org.

[Misogynist]

Doesn't mexico have a fence on their southern border?
OH yeah... they have to protect sovereign Mexican soil from invaders. They can't have people from Guatamala or El Salvador invading their country and taking jobs... That just wouldn't be right!..... Talk about hipocracy. That a$$hole Vicente Fox had the cajones to address the American public on television and say " I want to change the law in America that any Mexican citizen can come north and get a job."... The nerve of him telling us he wants change here.... HERE.... Yeah??.... Well I want Mexico to change it's laws that an American citizen can go south and buy property and not have to worry about being shangheid by the local authorities. Like I've said before. Arrest the illegal aliens and make them build the wall.

[Misogynist]

Keep in mind that much of the attention brought to the border situation stemmed from groups like the Minuteman and Grassfire.org.
My hat is off to those guys. Before the news media started reporting about regular citizens patroling the border, the politicians in Washington wouldn't even acknowledge that we had a problem with illegal immigration. Now immigration has become a "hot button" issue. Political careers are going to hang in the balance come election time depending on how they handle the issue of illegal immigration. Before the Minutemen got press, most people in rural "small town America" were not aware of the invasion. Now even little old ladies in backwater towns are making noise about the invasion. Protesting in streets like we've had here in Los Angeles help more. People see just how many are here and how defiant they are, waving the Mexican flag on American soil. They are so proud of being Mexican,,, but don't want to live there and solve their own problems.

[seanv]

you know...we are a nation that has lost it's spine! if we dont take our country back from the invasion we are in for another alamo on a grand scale.

[Liberator TJ1984]

Zero chance. I have many friends in the border patrol, and some that have stood the minuteman watch. It is, from what I understand, the most frustrating thing you can possibly do with your time. The border patrol doesn't want them there as they are a liability and basically whistle-blowing. When the minutemen catch someone or a group of people, they have been hung out "detaining" them for hours with no assistance. Keep in mind, you WILL be liable for any civil liberties violations to any suspected immigrants.
I am all for the idea, but unless it gets embraced as an added level of help by the border patrol, it is neutered completely.
YOU MEAN YOU CAN'T SHOOT "EM ????
damn !!! ain't got no ground hogs around here, need something to pop a few rounds at :crossx:
j/k ...but if ya could it would sure slow down the influx :rolleyes:

[Misogynist]

you know...we are a nation that has lost it's spine! if we dont take our country back from the invasion we are in for another alamo on a grand scale.
This Nation has NOT lost it's spine... it's our elected representatives in Washington that have no spine. They allow China to flood our markets with knock-off goods.They allowed China into the World trade organization despite the fact they refuse to follow the laws. They allow people from another country to invade our cities. All because they don't want to offend anyone. Well... I'M OFFENDED....MOST OF THE PEOPLE I KNOW ARE OFFENDED. And come election time I'm voting for the person that doesn't offend me. I don't care if they are Republican or Democrat. Just someone with a spine stand up and take charge. Maybe Joe Arpaio will run for President. He puts illegals in tent city for six months before he releases them to the feds.

[HavasuBarney]

This Nation has NOT lost it's spine... it's our elected representatives in Washington that have no spine. They allow China to flood our markets with knock-off goods.They allowed China into the World trade organization despite the fact they refuse to follow the laws. They allow people from another country to invade our cities. All because they don't want to offend anyone. Well... I'M OFFENDED....MOST OF THE PEOPLE I KNOW ARE OFFENDED. And come election time I'm voting for the person that doesn't offend me. I don't care if they are Republican or Democrat. Just someone with a spine stand up and take charge. Maybe Joe Arpaio will run for President. He puts illegals in tent city for six months before he releases them to the feds.
Putting an illegal in jail or prison is a huge part of the problem.
The illegal doesn’t mind because the conditions are better than they are used to and it costs the US taxpayers over $70,000 per inmate.
They come here to go to jail for medical reasons, rehab, you name it.
Tack on all the other services the Fed provides, medical, dental, court costs, legal defense and such, you push that number up considerably.
The Fed currently holds close to 150,000 and at $70,000 - $80,000+, you do the math.
Increased military spending, Homeland Defense, Border Patrol, the list goes on and on.
You want who to build a wall and cut off that source of revenue…?
Yeah right…
Don't get me wrong here, call me a racist.
I hate those dirty little bastards almost as much as I hate the politicians.

[THEPISTONHEAD]

I didnt know Sheriff Joe was still around.
Sheriff Joe for President!