Racing mods

[DetroitJim]

Need some info as to what to do to make my Sanger flat race legal. I have the NDBA rules, need some clarification.
1. No chrome running gear. I am stripping the chrome from my strut and prop, buying a new rudder with no chrome. Is any coating legal? Powder coat? Nickel plate? Paint? I live in a humid area and don't want to chase rust constantly.
2. Driveline cover. How much of a cutaway is allowed to get at the front flange bolts? Does the cover have to be one continuous solid piece?
3. I need a whirlaway, anyone have one or know of one? Which is best?
What else do I need to know to pass inspection that the rules do not make clear?
DJ

[boat030]

is the NDBA still around??? usually they will allow painted underwater gear. your driveline cover does not have to be one piece (that would make it hard to get on and off wouldn't it?). if you make it easy to get on and off you shouldn't need any openings in it. Call Tom at Menken's for a whirlaway his # is at the top of this screen. Take this for whatever it is worth, the reason they don't allow chrome underwater gear is that supposedly chroming metal makes it weaker. Now i don't know if this is true or not but i do know if it is true then grinding it off probably doesn't help too much.

[boat030]

one more thing go to tech as early as they will let you. the first time out with a boat they will almost always find something you missed or forgot and it is nice to have a little time to fix or add what you need. GOOD LUCK!!!

[PE857]

Jim
have raced NDBA rules for several years, not sure I understand them all, but I will address what u asked as far as i know.
Best if nothing on underwater gear, must be able to inspect parts for cracks.
Driveline cover there mainly to keep anything from winding around spinning parts. Mine is a piece of chrome 5" exhaust header type material split horizontally and held in place with a large radiator type screw clamp on each end. has about a 1" gap on each side length wise, parallel with the bottom of the boat.
Not in the rule book, I dont think, but have been requested to have an in line fuel shut off with a lanyard attached to the driver, on a blown inj application, with mechanical fuel pump. I think the book says only a "quick action shut off" which I always thought was just a regular push/pull knob deal on the dash, but when Kenny Darden was doing insp for NDBA he always wanted the in line thing. I think one of the IHBA tech guys wanted it too.
Good luck, Hope to see u at the races.

[Kurtis500]

Hello, leave the underwater stuff bare metal, you can put the crack check on it between each round. You cant see a crack with paint or chrome covering it up. I think the paint would come off anyways...? Them smear a thick coat of grease on it when your done.

[DetroitJim]

Thanks for the responses. It just seems odd that all race boats out there have rusty struts and rudders or someone crawling under a wet boat to smear grease all over them. What about inside the barrel? Some type of cladding would be better like electroless nickel or black oxide. The driveline cover according to the rules must be 1/4 thick aluminum or 1/8 steel, right now I have a 2 piece chrome sheet metal cover, the adapters are for 5 1/2 diameter. Do I get two pieces of thick tube that telescope inside one another?
Anyone from the east or midwest that knows the eastern circuit, advice appreciated.
DJ

[boat030]

driveline cover: yes that's exactly what you do. underwater gear: we always left ours bare and sprayed wd-40 on it before and after each run.
[This message has been edited by boat030 (edited February 19, 2002).]

[LeE ss13]

Also, the engine mounting bolts must stick though the attaching nuts 1 1/2 times their thickness. The rudder can not move side to side at all. Grease it just before tech. The safety collar on the prop shaft must be close enough to the stuffing box to keep the shaft from pulling out of the coupler. The kill switch must work. The driver seat must be very firm. Is this NDBA somewhere other than California. We had an NDBA, but it disbanded in the early '80s.
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LeE ss13
[This message has been edited by LeE ss13 (edited February 19, 2002).]

[Costello]

Lee NDBA is a common thread that ties SDBA, SLDBA, CSDBA, and a couple of other **BA's together by a common rulebook. ADBA was the other major player there in NDBA but they were aquired by IHBA last year and made IHBA Div 3. Now to elaborate a little further upon what Jim was asking about chrome and what Mike's (030) answer was. Michael is exactly right, the chroming process upsets the temper of any heat treated piece such as your rudder, strut etc. Stripping the chrome off may satisfy some tech folks, but defeats the purpose the rule was initiated in the first place, to protect you the racer from critical parts on the boat becoming compromised due to improper thermal cycling after heat treat. As I see it you have a few options, 1. leave it stripped of chrome and continue on with what you have, 2. normalize, check for cracks and re-heat treat any piece that was chromed, 3. replace the pieces with new stuff. I think option 1 is no bueno, and option 3 is probably overkill. Option 2 is probably your best bet. Good luck to you in NDBA.

[058]

Two reasons for the "no chrome rule" one: Chrome hides cracks. two: hydrogen embrittlement weakens the metal.

[Fired Up]

At what point would you consider just replacing the underwater hardware just due to time and fatigue. Two factors that are not necessarily apparent. What is the cost of a new rudder 100.00? A new strut 100.00? I don't know exactly. My naive opinion would think thats cheap peace of mind. I'm going to do it to my boat. It spent several years as a blown gasser then seven years as a top eliminator.

[boat030]

a new strut is actually pretty expensive, however i think it is still worth at least considering replacement or talk to costello about cryo treating it. I've seen a strut break before it is not pretty you might think you are not going fast enough to worry about it but the last strut i saw break was on a 9 sec. bracket boat the guy was lucky not to go in the drink

[superdave013]

I bought a new strut a few years ago from Barber Welding. I can't remember what I paid but it was the out of line. It came with the cert also. I can get their # when I get home if you need it. They also make struts too.

[WILDERTHANU]

barber welding att: "lance" (562) 928-2570

[Costello]

Thank you for the plug 030 http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif, BUT we have decided against treating any used props or struts. Liability is too high in that area of the boat, as we just do not know to what extent the piece is already compromised. We are happy to treat new equipment for someone when we run a batch. 058, as I understand it at one time the chrome stuff was OK as long as it had been normalized and re-heat treated, but then how was a racer really going to prove it had been re-heat treated? Too much hassle for tech people. Yes the chrome would also hide any small developing cracks and make detection difficult.
[This message has been edited by Costello (edited February 20, 2002).]

[058]

Costello, wouldn't the heat treatment blue the chrome? I know I would be pissed if I spent the money to have something plated just to have it turned blue from heat treating.

[DetroitJim]

Spoke to some shops, apparently irridite coating is legit for tech. I have my strut and prop over at the plater for stripping, then I'm taking them to work and crack checking with dye penetrant. Marine Machine here in Detroit can make a stainless strut, they do all the APBA hydros that way but s.s. might not fly for a drag boat. I also have an Aquamet 22 prop shaft coming, whirlaway, locking shifter, new rudder stuffing box and a new rudder with no chrome. So far this gig is costing me almost 2000 bucks, should have started fresh with a race built boat.
DJ

[boat030]

DJ, if you get this done for two thousand dollars you will be getting into racing cheaper than anyone i know. Do you know how to make a small fortune in racing? Start with a large one.

[Costello]

058, quite possibly so, haven't tried it myself. Perhaps a re-temper is all it requires, this is just my second or third hand understanding of what transpired some time back with the whole plating issue in drag racing. Jim most of the struts are at least 4130 or better yet 4340. Heat treated 4340 holds up to the stresses of Top Fuel, that's what you want. Barber can make you a good one or you can also call Wayne Mettler formerly of Canyon Boats 970-256-7299. Tell him Gary from California Cryo Treating sent you and tell him what you need. He can build you a good strut for a flat. Wayne started racing flats in 1966 as I recall and he built and rigged the IHBA PGF and TAF Championship boats of 2001.

[DetroitJim]

It's scary when I add it up:
Boat 6000
Misc 1000
First BBC 4000
Redo BBC 1000
Blower 3400
Big Bang #1 800
Big Bang #2 1800
Merlin II 1600
Internals 2500
Dart 325's 2000
Chiller 1200
Spare block 600
Plus some more, call it 25,000 or so, what the hell life is short.
DJ

[058]

DJ, What the hell...its only money, if you start adding it up you only get discouraged and may want to quit or if your wife finds out she will make you quit. Just don't dip into the kid's college fund. Costello, I don't know sh*t about metallurgy but I have heard that after the chroming process the metal can be de-gassed to recover some of the strength without the aid of high heat, know anything about this? Have also heard that nickle plating only will not cause hydrogen embrittlement, any plating experts out there?

[Costello]

058, that is interesting, but I do not know too much about the plating process, and what can be done to restore integrity after the fact. I do know the process upsets temper on heat treated pieces. I'm not sure of the differences in adverse effect from nickel, decorative chrome, and hard chrome. I do know that most chrome shops (hard or decorative) cannot keep up with demand as they are so heavily regulated by EPA and others. I think this plays favorably into the hands of powdercoaters, and folks who have other wear resistant solutions other than the hard chrome. Good Luck Detroit Jim with your race project.

[schiada96]

How about a dry film kind of like speed coat?
The dry film can be put on bare metal but they recomend a light bead blast. Lots of platers do this process. It has good corrosion resistance also. MIl-L-46010 is the process.