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View Full Version : The whole Shaq trade revisited.



dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 11:57 AM
So I was reading some stuff about it and I think this was one of the biggest moves in Lakers history and a GOOD one at that.
Ok, so the Lakers traded Shaq for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler and Brian Grant.
Here is where it stands today. Shaq is out 6-8 weeks with a major knee surgery, could be longer. He is averaging 14 points and 7 rebounds in 33 minutes of play. His health issues are probably going to force him to quit within 1-2 years MAX. His toe, now his knee all problems big men go through, especially a 7'1" 330+lb lazy one.
Now the Lakers, they have held on to Odom who is shining through more and more and really trying to put chemistry together with Kobe. He is already averaging 19 points and 8.5 rebounds in 40 minutes. And he is only 27 years old.
The Lakers have since traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown. Kwame really helped them in the playoffs last year and has had a slow start this year with his shoulder surgery. He is averaging 7 points and 8 rebounds in only 20 minutes, he should be around 14 points and 8 rebounds once he heals a bit. And he is only 24 years old.
The Lakers made a VERY smart move and let Brian Grant go, his contract is up this season and it frees the Lakers salary up alot, they can now go after another decent player to add to their roster.
So...To sum it up, if the Lakers keep Shaq, they ran the risk of losing Kobe and have a lazy center for a few years. Or, they have Kobe and Shaq still, but no money left over for anyone else.
Without Shaq they are a good team and will only get better. Now the Heat have Shaq for another year or two MAX and then whats next? they are already off to a 4-6 start while the Lakers are 8-3.
Who really got the better end of that deal? and who is really thinking for the future? :D

syke-o
11-22-2006, 12:02 PM
i am with you on this one, except some would argue that shaq gave the heat a championship which some might say could have been the lakers if he stayed... i think it will work out for us more than the 1 championship we missed out on last year

dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 12:15 PM
i am with you on this one, except some would argue that shaq gave the heat a championship which some might say could have been the lakers if he stayed... i think it will work out for us more than the 1 championship we missed out on last year
Yeah, they will...but! Wade and others pitched in, but Shaq being Shaq will probably take the credit as well. I swear all he has done this he left the Lakers is run his mouth off. :) The Lakers save LOTS of money without him and they are still in competition.

Ziggy
11-22-2006, 12:19 PM
Lakers Who????? :D :D :D

Roxysnow
11-22-2006, 02:17 PM
Keep on believing that! SHAQ another championship and another ring! Kobe....ooooppps missed the playoffs again!

acatitude
11-22-2006, 02:43 PM
yup all shaq did was go to miami and get another ring to stuff in kobes raping face and the heat will be in the mix again at the end, and the lakers, no way they can come out of the west with that team

acatitude
11-22-2006, 02:45 PM
Yeah, they will...but! Wade and others pitched in, but Shaq being Shaq will probably take the credit as well. I swear all he has done this he left the Lakers is run his mouth off. :) The Lakers save LOTS of money without him and they are still in competition.
you crack me up. saved money and still in competition. lol its about rings Don, and Lakers have none since shaq left and none on the horizon, hell you didn't have enough confidence in them to take dilligafs bet last night, so quit shootin your mouth off now. :rolleyes: :yuk:

purrfecttremor
11-22-2006, 02:48 PM
All I know is we averaged going to about 15 games a year and since that trade ZERO!!! I turn down tickets all the time and refuse to go. :cry:

BajaMike
11-22-2006, 02:51 PM
Keep on believing that! SHAQ another championship and another ring! Kobe....ooooppps missed the playoffs again!
I agree with Roxy :idea: .....do the numbers.....
1. How many games has Kobe won, how many games has Shaq won since the trade?
2. How many playoff games have Kobe won, how many playoff games has Shaq one since the trade?
3. How many chanpionships has the Lakers won, how many chanpionships have the Heat won since the trade??
Read the numbers and weep :cry:
Go Heat....go Shaq!
:rollside:

dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 02:53 PM
I guess you guys really think Shaq's 15 points per game won the championship?
Players like Wade, Payton, Mourning, Williams, Haslem, Kopono, Walker, Doleac a coach like Pat Riley had more to do with it than him, they could have probably done it without him, he just happened to land on a decent team.
Guess what, that is probably Shaq's last championship, Kobe on the other hand, has around 10+ years to try for another one with an up and coming team.
This thread is about the decision and it was clearly a smart one if you look at the stats. So you risk damaging your franchise for the next 10 years just for one ring? Shit, if Kobe, Payton, Malone and Shaq couldnt pull one, that should show you that the Heat did it by having a great team.

BajaMike
11-22-2006, 02:54 PM
Yeah, they will...but! Wade and others pitched in, but Shaq being Shaq will probably take the credit as well.
By the way, Shaq has always given all the credit to Wade and his other Heat teammates.... :idea:
:cool:

mbrown2
11-22-2006, 03:03 PM
One word....RING....nuf said....

MR HARLEY
11-22-2006, 03:11 PM
Its gonna be a long time before the Rapeist and his spirit squad ever see one of these.
http://www.sznews.com/english/images/site3/20060621/xin_3006032113552001033315.jpg
Or one of these.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g290/ILOVECLOVERZ/LOCKERROOM.jpg
NO MEANS NO KOBE. :)
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I41933-2005Mar16

dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 03:41 PM
I would not say it will be a long time. Fat boy can enjoy his ring and so can all his followers. My post was to show that the Lakers got the better end of the deal. If you do not believe this and believe the one ring was worth it, so be it. But from an owners stand point, it was one of the biggest moves to secure the future of your franchise.
BTW:
Lakers 8-3
heat 4-6
Fat ass is out for a few months too...Lakers will drive their ass in the ground come Christmas.

skygod73
11-22-2006, 03:44 PM
As much as I can't stand Shaq he has bragging rights for now. That being said, the trade will prove to be a blessing for the Lakers in the long run. By trading Shaq the Lakers got Odom and Brown (for Caron) plus Bynum with the 10th pick resulting from the poor record the 1st year without the big jelly doughnut. Who wouldn't take Odom, Brown, and Bynum for a broken Shaq? The Heat are stuck with Shaq's overpriced contract for years to come. With Bynum's rapid developement, the steady improvement of Walton/Brown, Farmar and Turiaf's upside, along with KB/LO the Lakers will be playing for a championship by next year. I have had my doubts along the way, but I really like the depth and future of this team. People that jumped off the bandwagon will pull the Laker gear out of the closet soon enough and tell us how they knew it all along!

PHX ATC
11-22-2006, 03:51 PM
I betcha Shaq can run circles around you!
Now, who's lazy? Fat? :)
I could care less, just stirring the pot. :rollside:

skygod73
11-22-2006, 04:02 PM
I betcha Shaq can run circles around you!
Now, who's lazy? Fat? :)
I could care less, just stirring the pot. :rollside:
Well considering I'm 5'11 and 180 lbs he couldn't run circles around me if his life depended on it. :p

All IN
11-22-2006, 04:04 PM
My company had has a suite at Staples Center since it open, the year after the trade nobody wanted to go to see the Lakers. I admit last years team was more exciting then the year before, but it stil missed one thing. A CHAMPIONSHIP. Thats all we care about is hanging another banner from Staples Center.
We would of have a better chance with Shaq, then we do now.
In a couple years they might make a run at a championship.

dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 04:11 PM
I betcha Shaq can run circles around you!
Now, who's lazy? Fat? :)
I could care less, just stirring the pot. :rollside:
Not me. :) I am 5'9" 175lbs and am on a soccer team that plays twice a week. :D

dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 04:11 PM
As much as I can't stand Shaq he has bragging rights for now. That being said, the trade will prove to be a blessing for the Lakers in the long run. By trading Shaq the Lakers got Odom and Brown (for Caron) plus Bynum with the 10th pick resulting from the poor record the 1st year without the big jelly doughnut. Who wouldn't take Odom, Brown, and Bynum for a broken Shaq? The Heat are stuck with Shaq's overpriced contract for years to come. With Bynum's rapid developement, the steady improvement of Walton/Brown, Farmar and Turiaf's upside, along with KB/LO the Lakers will be playing for a championship by next year. I have had my doubts along the way, but I really like the depth and future of this team. People that jumped off the bandwagon will pull the Laker gear out of the closet soon enough and tell us how they knew it all along!
I agree 100% with this.

acatitude
11-22-2006, 04:17 PM
[QUOTE=dmontzsta]I would not say it will be a long time. Fat boy can enjoy his ring and so can all his followers. My post was to show that the Lakers got the better end of the deal. If you do not believe this and believe the one ring was worth it, so be it. But from an owners stand point, it was one of the biggest moves to secure the future of your franchise.
????????????????? secure the future of never getting by the spurs without shaq. thats what they secured and they wont get out of the west with that team. and kobes got a bad knee.
lets see here since you like to keep score
miami with shaq= championship
lakers wih kobe= 0 rings, 1 rapeist
and the hits keep on coming

dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 04:23 PM
[QUOTE=dmontzsta]I would not say it will be a long time. Fat boy can enjoy his ring and so can all his followers. My post was to show that the Lakers got the better end of the deal. If you do not believe this and believe the one ring was worth it, so be it. But from an owners stand point, it was one of the biggest moves to secure the future of your franchise.
????????????????? secure the future of never getting by the spurs without shaq. thats what they secured and they wont get out of the west with that team. and kobes got a bad knee.
lets see here since you like to keep score
miami with shaq= championship
lakers wih kobe= 0 rings, 1 rapeist
and the hits keep on coming
Biter queens fan, dont be mad cause your queens will not even make the playoffs. Kobe's knee is 95%, it cannot be hurting too bad if he dropped 40 on the clippers like he dropped that ho's pants in colorado, rape my ass! we have already visited this and it is old, the chick settled for a few mill and went away, some rape victim huh? took him to court for money and dropped the trial. NBA players are always being accused of rape, nothing new.

acatitude
11-22-2006, 04:56 PM
nice deflection of the post don, we are discussing lakers, Im not running my pie hole about how great the Kings are, like you about how great you are without shaq. Im a bottom line kinda guy and you have nothing to show for being shaqless, but he has 1 mo ring boy... read it and weep

skygod73
11-22-2006, 05:03 PM
Posted by blowncarrera:
????????????????? secure the future of never getting by the spurs without shaq. thats what they secured and they wont get out of the west with that team. and kobes got a bad knee.
lets see here since you like to keep score
miami with shaq= championship
lakers wih kobe= 0 rings, 1 rapeist[/QUOTE]
Bottom line for all the haters:
Would you take Shaq + 1 ring and years of no cap relief, or Odom, Bynum, Brown, and the years lying ahead with a young improving team. BTW, how are Duncan and the Spurs gonna deal with Bynum in a year or two?[/B]

dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 05:03 PM
nice deflection of the post don, we are discussing lakers, Im not running my pie hole about how great the Kings are, like you about how great you are without shaq. Im a bottom line kinda guy and you have nothing to show for being shaqless, but he has 1 mo ring boy... read it and weep
Nothing to show? Look at the roster, they are a deeper team than Miami now. They also have a better record than Miami. It is still early in the season, but it is looking good for the Lakers and bad for Miami. They are without Shaq for probably 2-3 months. I hope they enjoy their ring, cause that is the last time they and Shaq will see one for a while.
Bottom line is, the Lakers got the better end of the deal, hands down. You would have to be delusional to not see this. Miami got a ring out of the deal, it is kind of like selling your soul to the devil, now their future is fading.

dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 05:05 PM
????????????????? secure the future of never getting by the spurs without shaq. thats what they secured and they wont get out of the west with that team. and kobes got a bad knee.
lets see here since you like to keep score
miami with shaq= championship
lakers wih kobe= 0 rings, 1 rapeist
Bottom line for all the haters:
Would you take Shaq + 1 ring and years of no cap relief, or Odom, Bynum, Brown, and the years lying ahead with a young improving team. BTW, how are Duncan and the Spurs gonna deal with Bynum in a year or two.
They do not realize this, since they hate the Lakers so much, their delusions about it get in the way. It was probably the biggest move for the Buss family to date. VERY smart one too...Also, how are they going to deal with not just Bynum, but Brown, Turiaf and possibly Mihm if they re-sign him. This team is shaping up to have great role players, which every championship has had.

skygod73
11-22-2006, 05:12 PM
I agree. Mitch deserves some credit for these moves. It's always something with Laker haters. I remember everyone saying PJ and KB would never work again. Even PJ was telling Kobe how this team is reminding him of those Bulls teams.

totenhosen
11-22-2006, 05:50 PM
Even as a Laker fan I'll say that right now Shaq has bragging rights. I think when the Lakers have cap sapce next year they can add a top tier player and be a championship quality team. Whereas Miami will be hurting when their vets retire and have cap space issues.
Sorry Kobe does not have ten years left to play. Guards typically do not play beyond their mid 30's.

dmontzsta
11-22-2006, 06:02 PM
Even as a Laker fan I'll say that right now Shaq has bragging rights. I think when the Lakers have cap sapce next year they can add a top tier player and be a championship quality team. Whereas Miami will be hurting when their vets retire and have cap space issues.
Sorry Kobe does not have ten years left to play. Guards typically do not play beyond their mid 30's.
That all depends, look at Jordan, the guy who is compared to Kobe everyday.

totenhosen
11-22-2006, 06:24 PM
That all depends, look at Jordan, the guy who is compared to Kobe everyday.
Jordan was a shell of his former self the last 5 years of his career.

SnoopJonnyJon
11-22-2006, 07:06 PM
I was, am, and always will be a Laker fan, but I do not have the interest in the team I did a few years ago. I used to stay up into the middle of the night to watch regular season games. What the Lakers gave up was an era. No different than when Jordan retired from the Bulls. It was the same deal with the Jazz when Stockton retired. He was well past him prime, but when you watched a game with Stockton and Malone, it just felt right. Honestly, I don't expect much success, or interest in the Lakers until they get another premier player. That's not to say I don't think Odom is good (I have his jersey), but he's not THAT good.

DILLIGAF
11-24-2006, 10:15 AM
you crack me up. saved money and still in competition. lol its about rings Don, and Lakers have none since shaq left and none on the horizon, hell you didn't have enough confidence in them to take dilligafs bet last night, so quit shootin your mouth off now. :rolleyes: :yuk:
I love reading your posts :)

MayDaze
11-24-2006, 11:54 AM
I was, am, and always will be a Laker fan, but I do not have the interest in the team I did a few years ago. I used to stay up into the middle of the night to watch regular season games. What the Lakers gave up was an era. No different than when Jordan retired from the Bulls. It was the same deal with the Jazz when Stockton retired. He was well past him prime, but when you watched a game with Stockton and Malone, it just felt right. Honestly, I don't expect much success, or interest in the Lakers until they get another premier player. That's not to say I don't think Odom is good (I have his jersey), but he's not THAT good.
This sounds a little bandwaggonish to me....

AirtimeLavey
11-25-2006, 09:59 AM
So I was reading some stuff about it and I think this was one of the biggest moves in Lakers history and a GOOD one at that.
Ok, so the Lakers traded Shaq for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler and Brian Grant.
Here is where it stands today. Shaq is out 6-8 weeks with a major knee surgery, could be longer. He is averaging 14 points and 7 rebounds in 33 minutes of play. His health issues are probably going to force him to quit within 1-2 years MAX. His toe, now his knee all problems big men go through, especially a 7'1" 330+lb lazy one.
Now the Lakers, they have held on to Odom who is shining through more and more and really trying to put chemistry together with Kobe. He is already averaging 19 points and 8.5 rebounds in 40 minutes. And he is only 27 years old.
The Lakers have since traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown. Kwame really helped them in the playoffs last year and has had a slow start this year with his shoulder surgery. He is averaging 7 points and 8 rebounds in only 20 minutes, he should be around 14 points and 8 rebounds once he heals a bit. And he is only 24 years old.
The Lakers made a VERY smart move and let Brian Grant go, his contract is up this season and it frees the Lakers salary up alot, they can now go after another decent player to add to their roster.
So...To sum it up, if the Lakers keep Shaq, they ran the risk of losing Kobe and have a lazy center for a few years. Or, they have Kobe and Shaq still, but no money left over for anyone else.
Without Shaq they are a good team and will only get better. Now the Heat have Shaq for another year or two MAX and then whats next? they are already off to a 4-6 start while the Lakers are 8-3.
Who really got the better end of that deal? and who is really thinking for the future? :D
Great post, although I'm not completely an LO guy, yet.
Yeah, you can't deny that Shaq played a role in the Heat's championship, but not the major, dominate role they wanted. Miami's also in the weaker East. Buss was smart to grant Shaq his demand, and trade his lazy a--. Only Riles could get his butt moving again, and as we could have known, that wasn't for long. Funny to see so many bandwagon haters still floating around.
Kobe the rapist....lol. How out of touch w/reality can you be. Guess you have no clue what the pro athletes lives are like. At least pick up a paper, and read the news occassionally. Last I saw, the case never made it through the courts, and Kobe's still playing ball. Did he hit it, yes. Did he rape it, no. Was she a money grubbing sleaze, yes.
Tough loss last night, but they were in it to the end. A little more defense would have got it done.
Go Lakers.

dmontzsta
11-25-2006, 01:17 PM
Great post, although I'm not completely an LO guy, yet.
Yeah, you can't deny that Shaq played a role in the Heat's championship, but not the major, dominate role they wanted. Miami's also in the weaker East. Buss was smart to grant Shaq his demand, and trade his lazy a--. Only Riles could get his butt moving again, and as we could have known, that wasn't for long. Funny to see so many bandwagon haters still floating around.
Kobe the rapist....lol. How out of touch w/reality can you be. Guess you have no clue what the pro athletes lives are like. At least pick up a paper, and read the news occassionally. Last I saw, the case never made it through the courts, and Kobe's still playing ball. Did he hit it, yes. Did he rape it, no. Was she a money grubbing sleaze, yes.
Tough loss last night, but they were in it to the end. A little more defense would have got it done.
Go Lakers.
Well said. I honestly thought they were going to hand the #1 team their second loss. The Lakers were on top most of the game. The Jazz only won at the last minute with a couple of lucky long rebounds, I believe the Lakers were the better team last night. The Lake show should be able to rack up about 6 out of 8 now pretty easily.

acatitude
11-25-2006, 03:18 PM
Well said. I honestly thought they were going to hand the #1 team their second loss. The Lakers were on top most of the game. The Jazz only won at the last minute with a couple of lucky long rebounds, I believe the Lakers were the better team last night. The Lake show should be able to rack up about 6 out of 8 now pretty easily.
better team only counts at end and final score... just in case you werent aware . :cry:

MayDaze
11-25-2006, 04:42 PM
better team only counts at end and final score... just in case you werent aware . :cry:
Who would know that better than a Sac fan.... I think it had something to do with Vlade passing the ball to Horry? :cry:

dmontzsta
12-03-2006, 08:24 AM
Yup, I hope the championship was worth it Miami. :) It is like selling your soul to the devil...I still say the Lakers made a VERY smart move for their longevity and got the better end of the deal.
"Interesting rumblings out of Miami suggest that Shaquille O'Neal's knee injury -- a flap tear of the articular cartilage in his left knee -- was sufficiently severe to raise the possibility of the dreaded M word ... microfracture surgery.
The problem, of course, is that O'Neal turns 35 in March. A surgical procedure that will end up taking Amare Stoudemire, at 24, more than a year to rebound from would naturally be a lot longer and tougher for someone Shaq's age."
Pat Riley is already taking shots at Shaq, do you think he is worried about what they got themselves in to with him? All the Lakers fans have been talking about his laziness for a long time, now he is realizing it first hand only with a FAT contract.
Pat Riley fired the first shot Tuesday in the Battle of Shaq's Bulge. The Heat coach wants Shaquille O'Neal to lose weight to aid his recovery from knee surgery. "Right now I hope his thought process is that he tries to almost reinvent himself physically," Riley said. "Because this is the first time that he's really had something wrong with his knee to the extent that there's been surgery on it." Riley said it's important that O'Neal "come back a lot lighter, a lot leaner."
Oh yeah, Kobe still has lots of years and a young team that is doing VERY well so far, so the chances of him getting another ring, two or three are greater, I cannot wait to see who gets the last laugh. :)

Beer Factor
12-03-2006, 09:38 AM
So I was reading some stuff about it and I think this was one of the biggest moves in Lakers history and a GOOD one at that.
Ok, so the Lakers traded Shaq for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler and Brian Grant.
Here is where it stands today. Shaq is out 6-8 weeks with a major knee surgery, could be longer. He is averaging 14 points and 7 rebounds in 33 minutes of play. His health issues are probably going to force him to quit within 1-2 years MAX. His toe, now his knee all problems big men go through, especially a 7'1" 330+lb lazy one.
Now the Lakers, they have held on to Odom who is shining through more and more and really trying to put chemistry together with Kobe. He is already averaging 19 points and 8.5 rebounds in 40 minutes. And he is only 27 years old.
The Lakers have since traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown. Kwame really helped them in the playoffs last year and has had a slow start this year with his shoulder surgery. He is averaging 7 points and 8 rebounds in only 20 minutes, he should be around 14 points and 8 rebounds once he heals a bit. And he is only 24 years old.
The Lakers made a VERY smart move and let Brian Grant go, his contract is up this season and it frees the Lakers salary up alot, they can now go after another decent player to add to their roster.
So...To sum it up, if the Lakers keep Shaq, they ran the risk of losing Kobe and have a lazy center for a few years. Or, they have Kobe and Shaq still, but no money left over for anyone else.
Without Shaq they are a good team and will only get better. Now the Heat have Shaq for another year or two MAX and then whats next? they are already off to a 4-6 start while the Lakers are 8-3.
Who really got the better end of that deal? and who is really thinking for the future? :D
a A 330+lb lazy one- that's classic- he'll be 500 plus when he quits playing ball.

One Particular Harbor
12-03-2006, 10:25 AM
That all depends, look at Jordan, the guy who is compared to Kobe everyday.
Michael Jordan is the "standard" to which Kobe, LaBron, etc. are compared.
By the way, in terms of "big moves" by the Buss organization (and Jerry West), I could think of a number of moves (even bringing Shaq to Los Angeles in the first place) that are far bigger.
Bottom line, I am and always have been a Lakers fan. And, I do believe that Shaq is beginning to show the wear and tear of having hauled his 7'1", 330 lb. frame up and down the court. However, I think the Lakers could have had another ring if Shaq and Kobe could have learned to share the spotlight. I also think this Laker squad is going to need some help to win another ring.
I respect Kobe's talent and work ethic, but I will never be a Kobe fan and I don't think he'll ever be "the next" Jordan. Jordan was a leader who lifted the game of those around him. Kobe is a phenominal talent, but that's it.
OPH

dmontzsta
12-03-2006, 12:00 PM
Michael Jordan is the "standard" to which Kobe, LaBron, etc. are compared.
By the way, in terms of "big moves" by the Buss organization (and Jerry West), I could think of a number of moves (even bringing Shaq to Los Angeles in the first place) that are far bigger.
Bottom line, I am and always have been a Lakers fan. And, I do believe that Shaq is beginning to show the wear and tear of having hauled his 7'1", 330 lb. frame up and down the court. However, I think the Lakers could have had another ring if Shaq and Kobe could have learned to share the spotlight. I also think this Laker squad is going to need some help to win another ring.
I respect Kobe's talent and work ethic, but I will never be a Kobe fan and I don't think he'll ever be "the next" Jordan. Jordan was a leader who lifted the game of those around him. Kobe is a phenominal talent, but that's it.
OPH
I agree they might have had another ring, but at what expense? Smart move by the Lakers PERIOD.

One Particular Harbor
12-03-2006, 12:22 PM
The proof is in the pudding, as they say. If Kobe and current squad can deliver a ring or two, then yes, it was a smart move. If not, then it wasn't.
Citing the Laker's current record at this very early point in the season as compared to the Heat's isn't going to prove your point, that's for sure. Right now, the Heat have more championships, period. If Kobe and crew can get out of the West (and that's a big "if") and if they can bring a championship back to Los Angeles sometime in the next five years (which is, I believe, when Kobe's "drink by" date will expire), then we can have the discussion.

dmontzsta
12-03-2006, 12:33 PM
The proof is in the pudding, as they say. If Kobe and current squad can deliver a ring or two, then yes, it was a smart move. If not, then it wasn't.
Citing the Laker's current record at this very early point in the season as compared to the Heat's isn't going to prove your point, that's for sure. Right now, the Heat have more championships, period. If Kobe and crew can get out of the West (and that's a big "if") and if they can bring a championship back to Los Angeles sometime in the next five years (which is, I believe, when Kobe's "drink by" date will expire), then we can have the discussion.
You have good points, but I think you are overlooking what I am saying. This is not about Shaq vs. Kobe really, it is about the Lakers making a better choice and trading Shaq. Is it really wise to invest all your money in to a championship race car with 300,000 miles on it, you get lucky and win one championship, then it breaks on you next season and your strapped for cash and cannot fix it for a long time. That is the way to look at it. :)

Jyruiz
12-03-2006, 12:33 PM
The proof is in the pudding, as they say. If Kobe and current squad can deliver a ring or two, then yes, it was a smart move. If not, then it wasn't.
Citing the Laker's current record at this very early point in the season as compared to the Heat's isn't going to prove your point, that's for sure. Right now, the Heat have more championships, period. If Kobe and crew can get out of the West (and that's a big "if") and if they can bring a championship back to Los Angeles sometime in the next five years (which is, I believe, when Kobe's "drink by" date will expire), then we can have the discussion.
I think you meant to say that Shaq has one more ring with the Heat, than Kobe with the Lakers. I think we all know that there is only one team with more rings than the Lakers, and that is the Celtics.

AirtimeLavey
12-03-2006, 02:51 PM
You have good points, but I think you are overlooking what I am saying. This is not about Shaq vs. Kobe really, it is about the Lakers making a better choice and trading Shaq. Is it really wise to invest all your money in to a championship race car with 300,000 miles on it, you get lucky and win one championship, then it breaks on you next season and your strapped for cash and cannot fix it for a long time. That is the way to look at it. :)
Good analogy. I'd give up a season or two, for long term success, versus short term big lazy. While Shaq and Kobe's attitude was probably the biggest issue, Shaq's conditioning, etc. was also a big factor. He got motivated only after getting kicked to Miami, and that was the only reason, (and Riles) that he got his a-- in shape. He's done. He won't work to get the weight down, and rehab that knee properly. That work ethic isn't in him. He'll probably spend that time on another rap album...I don't miss him. :yuk:
It was fun while he was here, but it's a new day, and no one's looking back. He's Miami's problem now. :cool:

dmontzsta
12-03-2006, 03:13 PM
Good analogy. I'd give up a season or two, for long term success, versus short term big lazy. While Shaq and Kobe's attitude was probably the biggest issue, Shaq's conditioning, etc. was also a big factor. He got motivated only after getting kicked to Miami, and that was the only reason, (and Riles) that he got his a-- in shape. He's done. He won't work to get the weight down, and rehab that knee properly. That work ethic isn't in him. He'll probably spend that time on another rap album...I don't miss him. :yuk:
It was fun while he was here, but it's a new day, and no one's looking back. He's Miami's problem now. :cool:
amen brotha! :D

Boa1277
12-03-2006, 05:21 PM
Wow how quick we are to kick a guy when he is down, Shaq has done more for the game than Kobe ever will, Put Shaq on a team and they immediately become a contender, add Kobe and what do you get a complete ego maniac, who cant lead a team. I have always been a Laker fan, but unfortunately they screwed the goose by not getting rid of Kobe along time ago, the guy can play a great game of one on one but he does not know the meaning of team basketball. Shaq was and can still be the most dominant player on a basketball court only time will tell everyone gets old. Kobe couldnt do it without Shaq, and I doubt he will ever get another ring period, to even compare the guy to Michael makes me sick to my stomach, he is not even in the same league as #23. LeBron is the next big thing hopefully the Buss family will pull their head out of their ass and trade Kobe for LeBron.

Jyruiz
12-03-2006, 06:24 PM
Wow how quick we are to kick a guy when he is down, Shaq has done more for the game than Kobe ever will, Put Shaq on a team and they immediately become a contender, add Kobe and what do you get a complete ego maniac, who cant lead a team. I have always been a Laker fan, but unfortunately they screwed the goose by not getting rid of Kobe along time ago, the guy can play a great game of one on one but he does not know the meaning of team basketball. Shaq was and can still be the most dominant player on a basketball court only time will tell everyone gets old. Kobe couldnt do it without Shaq, and I doubt he will ever get another ring period, to even compare the guy to Michael makes me sick to my stomach, he is not even in the same league as #23. LeBron is the next big thing hopefully the Buss family will pull their head out of their ass and trade Kobe for LeBron.
Shaq won another ring because Riles put a good group of players around him, 3 privious All Stars plus an All Star in Wade and Shaq being another All Star, that makes a team with 5 All Stars. The Lakers have not done the same for Kobe and Kobe is the only All Star on the Lakers, put the same team around Kobe and I am sure he would win a ring as well. Kobe was the right person to keep, he is a hard worker and hates to loose.
Shaq could have embraced Kobe when he came in and and told him he was the future, but Shaq got jealous when the attention was going towards Kobe and how good he was going to be. Shaq could not deal with somebody else taking the lime light away from him so he is as much to blame as Kobe is. Besides all this, Shaq had never won a ring till Kobe came along

dmontzsta
12-03-2006, 06:47 PM
Shaq won another ring because Riles put a good group of players around him, 3 privious All Stars plus an All Star in Wade and Shaq being another All Star, that makes a team with 5 All Stars. The Lakers have not done the same for Kobe and Kobe is the only All Star on the Lakers, put the same team around Kobe and I am sure he would win a ring as well. Kobe was the right person to keep, he is a hard worker and hates to loose.
Shaq could have embraced Kobe when he came in and and told him he was the future, but Shaq got jealous when the attention was going towards Kobe and how good he was going to be. Shaq could not deal with somebody else taking the lime light away from him so he is as much to blame as Kobe is. Besides all this, Shaq had never won a ring till Kobe came along
I love this guy. :) You should put this under your name "The Truth". :D

AirtimeLavey
12-03-2006, 07:20 PM
Wow how quick we are to kick a guy when he is down, Shaq has done more for the game than Kobe ever will, Put Shaq on a team and they immediately become a contender, add Kobe and what do you get a complete ego maniac, who cant lead a team. I have always been a Laker fan, but unfortunately they screwed the goose by not getting rid of Kobe along time ago, the guy can play a great game of one on one but he does not know the meaning of team basketball. Shaq was and can still be the most dominant player on a basketball court only time will tell everyone gets old. Kobe couldnt do it without Shaq, and I doubt he will ever get another ring period, to even compare the guy to Michael makes me sick to my stomach, he is not even in the same league as #23. LeBron is the next big thing hopefully the Buss family will pull their head out of their ass and trade Kobe for LeBron.
Watched a Lakers game lately? Doesn't seem like it you've seen a game this season. You should try and catch one. I'm sure you'll feel differently. :rollside:

AirtimeLavey
12-03-2006, 07:23 PM
Shaq won another ring because Riles put a good group of players around him, 3 privious All Stars plus an All Star in Wade and Shaq being another All Star, that makes a team with 5 All Stars. The Lakers have not done the same for Kobe and Kobe is the only All Star on the Lakers, put the same team around Kobe and I am sure he would win a ring as well. Kobe was the right person to keep, he is a hard worker and hates to loose.
Shaq could have embraced Kobe when he came in and and told him he was the future, but Shaq got jealous when the attention was going towards Kobe and how good he was going to be. Shaq could not deal with somebody else taking the lime light away from him so he is as much to blame as Kobe is. Besides all this, Shaq had never won a ring till Kobe came along
Brrrilliant...how obvious can this be, and yet some just can't see it. Good post. Keep up the good work. :cool:

Jyruiz
12-03-2006, 07:37 PM
Brrrilliant...how obvious can this be, and yet some just can't see it. Good post. Keep up the good work. :cool:
Thanks Don and Airtime, but I just call it like I see it, at least I try anyway.