Thanksgiving weekend Phantom Crash pics

[Froggystyle]

As many of you know, we spent Thanksgiving weekend in the Mormon mountains about 70 miles Northeast of Las Vegas. The object was to drop off of the planet for a couple of days and go enjoy the back country with our new Rhino. What a great trip!
I have never been a fan of aimless playing, and playing in the dirt is no exception for me. I like a reason to go out, a reason to push a little bit harder and achieve a goal. Climbing Mt Whitney, rafting the Grand Canyon etc... you want to achieve something at the end of the day.
Wanting a "goal" I started searching for cool stuff to find out in the desert. I stumbled upon a website where a guy has put a lot of clues as to where downed planes are out in the desert, but no actual GPS coordinates or locations. Just clues.
So, we decided we were going to go out in the very rugged terrain of the Northern Mormon mountains and go find this downed bird. Story said it was an F-4 Phantom.
We started ordering imagery and USGS maps. I got the MapSource software for the GPS up and running too and started following the clues. Well off of a "Jeep Trail" on the map was an intermittent stream leading up into the valley we are suspecting the crash site.
Long story short, we roll up there in the Toterhome and unload the Rhino about 40 miles down a dirt road from where the stream takes off into the Mormons.
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/47-1/DSC06155.JPG
We took off around 2:30, so the sun was waning quite a bit already. We drove though darkness for a while to get up to within a mile of the trailhead. The Union Pacific Railroad had other ideas though... There was the burliest gate you ever saw keeping us from heading up any further, and canyon walls on either side of it. If we had crossed the tracks, we would have been OK, but here is what happenned to a cow that figured that was a good idea...
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/59-1/DSC06175.JPG

[Froggystyle]

So, we head back down the track a couple of miles until we can get under it through this drainage ditch (most were too short to even get the Rhino under)
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/100-2/DSC06241.JPG
We woke up to find ourselves in a really beautiful little canyon. We had gone up as far as the Rhino would fit to find a flat sandy spot. Here's hoping there are no flash floods!
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/50-2/DSC06165.JPG
Another pic of the first night's canyon...
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/53-1/DSC06167.JPG
After loading up the camp and strapping the rucks to the roof we are loaded up and ready to go!
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/56-1/DSC06173.JPG

[Froggystyle]

Once we saw it in daylight, we found a way through the wash and around the monster gate and headed about 11 miles up this wash to this spot... or there abouts. The terrain here was so steep that both front wheels are barely staying on the ground in this shot. Sorry for the bad camera angle and all, but Aud is standing straight up and down to give you some idea of the steepness. No roads around here!
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/62-1/DSC06179.JPG
I had my suspicions as to where the crash site was, but no dillusions that we could climb straight up to it. The valley was surrounded by cliffs and unclimbable with a heavy ruck. Especially considering this was Aud's first backpacking trip. Here is a picture of the valley we stopped the Rhino in for the night from the campsite we hiked to that day. The Rhino is in the bottom of the valley at the end of the arrow, the actual F4 site was just over that cliff, but not down the other side of the hill. Invisible from the valley floor. Those cliffs are about 200 something feet high. The size of the Rhino should give a descent frame of reference.
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/65-1/Rhino+Valley+copy.jpg
Here is a zoomed picture of the Rhino from the same spot...
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/68-1/Rhino+Valley+Zoom.jpg
Behind me in this shot is the ridgeline we had to navigate around. You can see that the southern side of the ridge is not as steep as the northern side.
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/104-1/Wes+with+crash.jpg

[Froggystyle]

Traversing around the ridgeline was the only way to get there. We had rope to get down the smaller cliffs, but no way to climb up them. Our plan was to traverse/boulder etc... around the 1 mile across valley on the back side... about 2 miles of hard hiking on an Alluvial Fan surface. Here is Audrey navigating a boulder obstacle. Lots of this going on...
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/71-1/Audrey+Traversing.jpg
And, after 4 hours of hiking, we came over a crack in the cliffs to find this valley! There is an entire F-4 Phantom splashed out all over this little crease. This doesn't turn up on a 1:24000 topo map either BTW because it is so shallow. I didn't know it was here, and nearly gave up on the hunt.
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/74-1/F4+Crash+site.jpg
Lots of parts to be found, here are some interesting ones...
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/77-1/Afterburner+1.jpg
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/80-1/Afterburner+2.jpg
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/83-1/F4+Wing.jpg
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/86-1/Mystery+part.jpg
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/92-1/Hydraulic+sequencer+valve.jpg
Once we had found the wreck, it was time to head back to the Rhino. For perspective, here is a shot from across the valley to our prior night's campsite...
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/95-1/View+Across+Valley.jpg
And then we bagged ass and made it home! Great trip. We are going to have to go do a group one soon to somewhere less rugged. That was a bit of a challenge for most, including Izzy who is only just beginning to start listening to me again after we drove her so hard it trashed her paws. Poor thing...
http://www.rhinoaddict.com/rhino_gallery/d/89-2/Izzy+with+backpack.jpg
Gotta get her some booties that will stay on her this time.

[alfonzo]

WOW!!!! for not having a plan it looks like it turned out killer...VERY COOL!

[riverliver]

Sound like an awesome trip !

[gqchris]

What an awesome read Froggy! With the pics and narratives, I felt like I was there! Thanks for taking the time to journal the adventure!

[boatnam2]

cool trip and pics...

[Magic34]

Great story, thanks.
Question though... Isn't the reason for the Rhino is that you dont have to walk anywhere? :D
I dont walk to the mailbox, the Rhino takes me. :crossx:

[Wet Dream]

Very cool. What are the circumstances about the plane crash?

[Jbb]

Very cool report!......Is there any historm of the crash....when It happened,ect?

[RiverRatMike]

there is also a crashed F4 just outside of Parker about 15 miles NE that has been there nearly 30 years, and I've been to the crash site dozens of times. Still lots of the plane left to see. It's in a restricted area so be careful if you see it. Ask riverliver for further directions. He'll be right on it.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20567&stc=1

[riverliver]

Always glad to be of help.

[Boatcop]

Here's a picture of the F-4 (Yep, the same one) number 153098 in better days.
All I know is that it crashed in 1975 killing the pilot. I'll see what more info I can dig up.
http://www.cv41.org/photos/gallery/albums/vmfp-3_pc/153098_spirit_of_76.sized.jpg

[Jyruiz]

Wow, sounds like a lot of fun work, something you will definitely remember. Thanks for sharing your trip.

[rrrr]

Way cool, froggy.

[AirtimeLavey]

Great thread!!! Thanks for sharing. Looks like it was fun. Is this the start of a new business venture.....Rhino tours? :cool:

[Riverat84]

dude, froggy! this is sick, now i wanna go there and explore it!

[Red Horse]

Hell of an adventure. That sounds like fun.
We used to do somethings like that in the desert nat wildlife refuge just north of Vegas. Most dont know that those mountains up there have springs, forrest and the like. Did you mark the plane with the GPS, or did you go old school landnav?

[cxr133]

Saweeet.....
thanks for sharing the pics.
you def. are an adventurer

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Interesting, good thread.

[Sotally Tober]

Thanks for the pics and story. Looked to be a lot of fun.

[Jordan_23_85205]

Great Pics, Great Story and man that Rhino is KILLER. Very nice!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Cooln adventure Froggy. :)

[GHT]

Sweet... Wes, thanks for sharing.. Looks like a lot of hard work but well worth it... Cool story you will be able to share for years to come.

[Quality Time]

Thanks for sharing!

[BigDoug]

Very cool Wes, i really like the fact that your grammar and punctuation make it easy to read, like you are actually there !! :)

[catman-do]

Now this is probably one of the coolest posts ive seen on here. I like the pics. I love hiking as well.

[edog_103]

Looks like that was a fun trip. I think i have new found respect for the Rhino thing.

[Tequila-John]

great pics thanks bro

[Baja Big Dog]

Cant you just see a bunch of tree huggin a holes out there painting the wreckage and desicrating the site that a true American died at!! ILL bet that Diane Fukinstien bought the paint!!!

[riverroyal]

was it just you,one rhino???You are one motivated sob,I pretty sure I wouldnt do that :rollside:

[2Driver]

was it just you,one rhino???You are one motivated sob,I pretty sure I wouldnt do that :rollside:
As a former Seal I'm guessing he's been on a recon or 2, $hit if the Rhino broke Wes could probably swim out. :D :D

[SoCal_fun]

Really great pics and commentary. Thank you for sharing. :rollside:

[Froggystyle]

Thanks for the good words everyone. Yeah, it was just Audrey and I with the one Rhino.
We really bought it for a million things, but this was always one of them. The form has always followed function. I wanted it reliable for this exact reason. We were about 45 miles from a telephone, 11 miles from a railroad track (worst case scenario communication) and absolutely zero cell service.
As has been suggested, this wasn't exactly out of my scope of experience, and the training made the trip easy for Aud too. We were well prepared, the map study was complete, if not perfectly relevant to the search considering the terrain, but we made a plan which even back in San Diego included the circumnavigation of the ridgeline and trying to hit the bowl from the back side. I wish we had taken more pics, but I was already carrying an 80# ruck, and Aud wan't about to carry a camera. So, the happy snaps are all you get.
As far as walking, we basically got the Rhino to insert us to where we would backpack. Even in the first nights stay, we were backpacking. The rule was, nothing gets loaded into the Rhino that we are using to camp with. We were using it as transportation, not logistics. It is so easy today to just load up with two tons of crap for every trip we take... just pile it in the motorhome. This was an attempt to start reversing that trend. You really don't need all of that gear, and having to carry it really makes a difference as to what you will bring next time. For example, Aud had three pairs of pants. Next time, it will be one pair of pants, three pairs of underwear. You don't need two long sleeves, you need one. You don't need Biore facial strips, and you don't need oil of olay face cleaning cloths. What you do need is a shovel though. Those kind of trade-offs are better explained after you start bitching about the load you are carrying.
I have no problem humping the bigger ruck. I am used to it etc... I carried enough water for us for the four days as there wasn't any naturally (15 liters) I carried the tent, food, emergency gear, radio, shovel, etc... My personal gear weighed 11 pounds, 7.5 of that was sleeping bag, thermarest and thermarest chair cover. All told, my extra tees, fleece liner for the jacket, gloves and camp booties weighed less than 3.5 pounds.
I am looking to do some mods to the Rhino though. It needs to go faster. I was trying to stay off of the rev limiter during the 40 mile insert leg, and as such we were going about 37mph. I would like it to cruise at 47-50. Expect some reliable mods in the coming months.
My buddy just started a site called "rhinoaddict.com" and I am helping him get it off of the ground. This trip, information about the downed plane's location, topo map info, GPS coordinates and lessons learned will all be posted over there in the forums and the wiki. It would be great to have a surviving document that gave really good information for trail rides with our Rhino's, and this seems like a better way to do it than just a forum. Hope to see some of you Rhino folks over there adding to the wiki.
'Till the next one.... We are going out over Christmas to find an F-86 Sabre and an F-105.

[MudPumper]

Hey Froggy, have you ever dove the F-4 off of SD??? Or what about the
P-38 off La Jolla? Great Pics.

[Phat Matt]

Wes, I am a little disappointed you didn't reassemble the F4 and fly it out of there. I expected more of you. :D

[Sleek-Jet]

Thanks for the good words everyone. Yeah, it was just Audrey and I with the one Rhino.
We really bought it for a million things, but this was always one of them. The form has always followed function. I wanted it reliable for this exact reason. We were about 45 miles from a telephone, 11 miles from a railroad track (worst case scenario communication) and absolutely zero cell service.
As has been suggested, this wasn't exactly out of my scope of experience, and the training made the trip easy for Aud too. We were well prepared, the map study was complete, if not perfectly relevant to the search considering the terrain, but we made a plan which even back in San Diego included the circumnavigation of the ridgeline and trying to hit the bowl from the back side. I wish we had taken more pics, but I was already carrying an 80# ruck, and Aud wan't about to carry a camera. So, the happy snaps are all you get.
As far as walking, we basically got the Rhino to insert us to where we would backpack. Even in the first nights stay, we were backpacking. The rule was, nothing gets loaded into the Rhino that we are using to camp with. We were using it as transportation, not logistics. It is so easy today to just load up with two tons of crap for every trip we take... just pile it in the motorhome. This was an attempt to start reversing that trend. You really don't need all of that gear, and having to carry it really makes a difference as to what you will bring next time. For example, Aud had three pairs of pants. Next time, it will be one pair of pants, three pairs of underwear. You don't need two long sleeves, you need one. You don't need Biore facial strips, and you don't need oil of olay face cleaning cloths. What you do need is a shovel though. Those kind of trade-offs are better explained after you start bitching about the load you are carrying.
I have no problem humping the bigger ruck. I am used to it etc... I carried enough water for us for the four days as there wasn't any naturally (15 liters) I carried the tent, food, emergency gear, radio, shovel, etc... My personal gear weighed 11 pounds, 7.5 of that was sleeping bag, thermarest and thermarest chair cover. All told, my extra tees, fleece liner for the jacket, gloves and camp booties weighed less than 3.5 pounds.
I am looking to do some mods to the Rhino though. It needs to go faster. I was trying to stay off of the rev limiter during the 40 mile insert leg, and as such we were going about 37mph. I would like it to cruise at 47-50. Expect some reliable mods in the coming months.
My buddy just started a site called "rhinoaddict.com" and I am helping him get it off of the ground. This trip, information about the downed plane's location, topo map info, GPS coordinates and lessons learned will all be posted over there in the forums and the wiki. It would be great to have a surviving document that gave really good information for trail rides with our Rhino's, and this seems like a better way to do it than just a forum. Hope to see some of you Rhino folks over there adding to the wiki.
'Till the next one.... We are going out over Christmas to find an F-86 Sabre and an F-105.
Froggy the Sherpa... :D
Wes, there are a couple really good Aircraft Archeology websites out there, with coordinates to all the wrecks.
Some of the crash sites are suprisingly complete, and other have been almost completely salvaged. The one I always wanted to go see was the B-47 that had crashed in Yellow Stone. The entire airframe was there. They rehabed the site a few years ago.

[Froggystyle]

Froggy the Sherpa... :D
Wes, there are a couple really good Aircraft Archeology websites out there, with coordinates to all the wrecks.
Some of the crash sites are suprisingly complete, and other have been almost completely salvaged. The one I always wanted to go see was the B-47 that had crashed in Yellow Stone. The entire airframe was there. They rehabed the site a few years ago.
Yeah, I saw some of the sites. Just walking up on a GPS coordinate isn't that much fun though... I wanted a little bit of a hunt for it.
There are over 6000 military wrecks in Arizona alone. From WWI on, a huge volume of training has been done in Arizona and it amounted to a lot of wrecks. There are some cool British wrecks there as well, as all British aviators during WWII were trained in AZ strangely enough. So, there are Mosquitos, Spitfires etc... all over the desert as well.
I will be heading back out, most likely in search of some wrecks that haven't been found yet, or at least not documented as found. I like the mystery. One I am definitely going to go look for is a downed A-12, the sister ship to the SR-17 and part of the CIA's "Oxcart" program. There isn't many big pieces left, and the guy was REALLY vague with regard to location, but there are tons of little titanium shards all over the ground, lots of composite pieces and other tattle-tale signs of a crash.
That may be next. I might not be up to the "Blue's clues super sleuth" level needed to go find ghost planes just yet...

[Jbb]

Yeah, I saw some of the sites. Just walking up on a GPS coordinate isn't that much fun though... I wanted a little bit of a hunt for it.
There are over 6000 military wrecks in Arizona alone. From WWI on, a huge volume of training has been done in Arizona and it amounted to a lot of wrecks. There are some cool British wrecks there as well, as all British aviators during WWII were trained in AZ strangely enough. So, there are Mosquitos, Spitfires etc... all over the desert as well.
I will be heading back out, most likely in search of some wrecks that haven't been found yet, or at least not documented as found. I like the mystery. One I am definitely going to go look for is a downed A-12, the sister ship to the SR-17 and part of the CIA's "Oxcart" program. There isn't many big pieces left, and the guy was REALLY vague with regard to location, but there are tons of little titanium shards all over the ground, lots of composite pieces and other tattle-tale signs of a crash.
That may be next. I might not be up to the "Blue's clues super sleuth" level needed to go find ghost planes just yet...
I lost a really nice 1/4 drive snap on air ratchet a few years back...I may have possibly left it in a customers trunk......can you help me find it? :p

[Sleek-Jet]

Yeah, I saw some of the sites. Just walking up on a GPS coordinate isn't that much fun though... I wanted a little bit of a hunt for it.
There are over 6000 military wrecks in Arizona alone. From WWI on, a huge volume of training has been done in Arizona and it amounted to a lot of wrecks. There are some cool British wrecks there as well, as all British aviators during WWII were trained in AZ strangely enough. So, there are Mosquitos, Spitfires etc... all over the desert as well.
I will be heading back out, most likely in search of some wrecks that haven't been found yet, or at least not documented as found. I like the mystery. One I am definitely going to go look for is a downed A-12, the sister ship to the SR-17 and part of the CIA's "Oxcart" program. There isn't many big pieces left, and the guy was REALLY vague with regard to location, but there are tons of little titanium shards all over the ground, lots of composite pieces and other tattle-tale signs of a crash.
That may be next. I might not be up to the "Blue's clues super sleuth" level needed to go find ghost planes just yet...
Coordinates might be cheating, but it's nice to know you're in the right area. :idea:
There's probably enough aluminum scattered across the Goldwater range to keep RD in beer cans for the rest of his life.
Tha A12 set a couple of still standing speed and altitude records... being single seat it was a little lighter than the later SR-71... There's one parked in Palmdale if you want to see it all together... :D
Abandoned airport are cool to, though some are easier to find. The old Emergency fields from back in the Air Mail days are flat out in the middle on nowhere...

[Froggystyle]

Abandoned airport are cool to, though some are easier to find. The old Emergency fields from back in the Air Mail days are flat out in the middle on nowhere...
Yeah, that is what my brother is angling for over Christmas. He knows of some auxiliary B-17 fields square out there in the middle of nowhere. The way I see it, I would like to get after finding some aluminum though.
There is supposedly a crash on the top of some needle peak outside of Phoenix where some crazy Dutch miner left all of his gold. We may have to go check that out.

[Froggystyle]

Tha A12 set a couple of still standing speed and altitude records... being single seat it was a little lighter than the later SR-71... There's one parked in Palmdale if you want to see it all together... :D
It had a 10,000 foot higher ceiling as well, but a lighter available load capacity.

[JB in so cal]

...and when they would top off the tanks, fuel would leak out of the seams. It would seal up as the plane heated and the panels would expand. That's why they would re-fuel soon after take off. Crazy planes considering when they were designed and how long the records held.

[Jbb]

:p

[MudPumper]

Yeah, that is what my brother is angling for over Christmas. He knows of some auxiliary B-17 fields square out there in the middle of nowhere. The way I see it, I would like to get after finding some aluminum though.
There is supposedly a crash on the top of some needle peak outside of Phoenix where some crazy Dutch miner left all of his gold. We may have to go check that out.
Heard there is a fresh F-18 crash site near Miramar. Luckily the Pilot punched out safely.

[MudPumper]

Hey Froggy, have you ever dove the F-4 off of SD??? Or what about the
P-38 off La Jolla? Great Pics.
????

[Froggystyle]

Hey Froggy, have you ever dove the F-4 off of SD??? Or what about the
P-38 off La Jolla? Great Pics.
Never have. I don't do much hobby-diving in SD. The teams pretty much killed the fun in that for me. I have been off and on, but mostly lobster diving.
I did go out to see the Canadian ship and some other stuff, but that was for re-qual dives while I was still in.
Are you from around here?

[77charger]

Looks like a cool trip wes.

[Nicked prop]

There's a F-111 in the Pequops (NV) my dirt biking buddies ran across a few years back. The site is extremely inaccesible and had been dormant so long the AF forgot it existed and "denied" the crash was there. A small town newspaper reporter here took the "investigative expose route" and earned some sort of literary award for his efforts. It turns out the F-111 was carrying some top secret terrain following autopilot gear. It was experimental and the bugs hadn't been worked out. Snow on the ground spoofed the gear and caused the bird to auger into the mountain side. The crash was undiscovered for quite a while and soem speculated the pilot and co-pilot had crossed over to the 'other side' and flew the bird to the Soviet Union. A sheepherder found the crash six months or so after it happened, ending the mystery of the F-111 that disapppeared. As I mentioned at first, the AF completely forgot about the crash until my buddies came across it ten years or so ago. We've been back to the site and some of the guys even took the son on the pilot to the site where his father, a Vietnam War hero, made his final flight.

[MudPumper]

Never have. I don't do much hobby-diving in SD. The teams pretty much killed the fun in that for me. I have been off and on, but mostly lobster diving.
I did go out to see the Canadian ship and some other stuff, but that was for re-qual dives while I was still in.
Are you from around here?
Was there for about 4 yrs while I was going to College. Wish I still lived there, SD is the shit.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Excellent thread.
When you Rhino'ers coming out to hang with us in Dumont?
Be there all of Christmas Vacation/New Years.
Runs to the talk mines, gold mines, North Pole, South Pole,,, Stateline,,

[Decided Advantage]

A very cool cruise! Thanks for sharing! :)

[Jetaholic]

I hear there is a sunk boat somewhere in Lake Piru...could be worth something? :crossx::p:)

[Froggystyle]

Excellent thread.
When you Rhino'ers coming out to hang with us in Dumont?
Be there all of Christmas Vacation/New Years.
Runs to the talk mines, gold mines, North Pole, South Pole,,, Stateline,,
I still want to get with you about the Death Valley area. I have intel on a couple of great crashes out there, and you may know of the areas a little better than I can discern from a map and imagery.