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Towndrunk
12-07-2006, 11:25 AM
I bought a boat that was not taken care of and is in need of a new finish. Since I am retired with nothing to do but hunt I thought I'd put my air compressor to work. I have been sanding it with 100 grit orbital because of the 10 coats or so of clear over it and have gotten into the gel here and there so I am wondering should I regel or just paint over it? I need real help and suggestions as to what kind of gun, paint and or gel to use. My compressor is a 30 gallon oil free 8.2@40 and 5.3 @90. How this is achieved I don't know. It has no inline filter either. Please HELP!!!!!! :220v:

martan
12-09-2006, 08:01 AM
Spray it with Urethane. Get a decent hvlp gun or you'll need a bigger compressor. Don't use anything enamel or laquer based, not even primer. Good luck.
www.bowkersfiberglass.com

Tom Brown
12-09-2006, 03:00 PM
I used polyurethane. Imron to be exact. I'm extremely pleased with the results.
Having said that, if you plan to color sand and buff, I'd shoot gel. It's not particularly difficult.
If you don't want to block the whole thing out after painting, I'd go with paint. It won't stick to the trailing edge of the sponsons of that Riot, though. There is no paint that will stick to the trailing edge of a hull at 100 mph.
Oh... and I would try DuPont 50P polyacryl anhydride enamel. It claims to have all the benefits of Imron but none of the potentially lethal health dangers.

Jbb
12-09-2006, 07:39 PM
I used polyurethane. Imron to be exact. I'm extremely pleased with the results.
Having said that, if you plan to color sand and buff, I'd shoot gel. It's not particularly difficult.
If you don't want to block the whole thing out after painting, I'd go with paint. It won't stick to the trailing edge of the sponsons of that Riot, though. There is no paint that will stick to the trailing edge of a hull at 100 mph.
Oh... and I would try DuPont 50P polyacryl anhydride enamel. It claims to have all the benefits of Imron but none of the potentially lethal health dangers.
Lots of boats are painted with acrylic urethane...that is pretty durable....and sands and buffs to a beautiful sine...The Nortech pictured was painted with PPG Acrylic Urethane
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860DSCF0024.JPG

Tom Brown
12-10-2006, 09:13 AM
Lots of boats are painted with acrylic urethane...that is pretty durable....and sands and buffs to a beautiful sine...The Nortech pictured was painted with PPG Acrylic Urethane
How do they get it to stick to the trailing edge of the running surface at 80+ mph?
My paint doesn't stick that great. It doesn't all peel off but there are dozens of tiny chips along the trailing edge. The primer (DuPont 1144) doesn't come off but the Imron does. I've tried sanding only to 200 grit, going with less paint build, going with more paint build, and making the edge less sharp (it was originally a knife edge). Nothing has worked for me.
I've heard plenty of others say the same. So much so that I had come to the conclusion that the guys who say it works great at any speeds either don't look at the bottom of their hull or they don't mention the tiny chips that seem to form for so many of us.
If it works for someone, can you give me some insight on how they did it? It would be sweet to not have to touch up that area all the time.
Oh... and I wasn't trying to say it doesn't color sand. Only that you don't strictly have to color sand it as it can look pretty good without. Gel, on the other hand, looks like crap if you are doing a big panel and don't color sand it.

Towndrunk
12-10-2006, 03:22 PM
Thanks guys for the info. That paint job is kick ass.
Tom, I'm not doing the bottom only the top cap. I may have to fix a few uhoh's on the pad but I'll cover it up with speed coat. I don't really think it works but it looks cool. This is what I am fixing. Notice the 3 thousand coAts of clear??

Tom Brown
12-10-2006, 04:01 PM
If I were you, I'd probably try shooting the new DuPont 50P polyacryl anhydride enamel for the deck only. It's safe and easy. No need to color sand, as long as you don't put too many blemishes in the final coat.
Also, since you'll be selling the boat to Kim Hanson, it couldn't matter less if the paint fails 10 seconds after it leaves your yard. :D

Towndrunk
12-10-2006, 05:16 PM
Also, since you'll be selling the boat to Kim Hanson, it couldn't matter less if the paint fails 10 seconds after it leaves your yard. :D
:D :D :D That right there is funny!! What color do you think he'd like??

Jbb
12-10-2006, 05:48 PM
How do they get it to stick to the trailing edge of the running surface at 80+ mph?
Most of those boats,with the exception of Ballistic,have running surfaces that are unpainted..

Tom Brown
12-10-2006, 06:49 PM
Most of those boats,with the exception of Ballistic,have running surfaces that are unpainted..
Cool. I think I'm going to gel my pad. The rest of the boat is perfect. I'm glad I went with Imron.
TD, you should be aware that my experience is limited. Jbb is an expert and, in fact, someone I've learned a lot from. He knows his shit.

Towndrunk
12-10-2006, 07:15 PM
I'm having a problem with my air compressor keeping up with the da sander. How big a compressor do I need any way? I am thinking of buying a Milwaukee
random orbital to finish taking the clear off. Any opinions? The one I am thinking of is this one. It's 5.5 amps at 10,000 with a 5" pad. ?????

Tom Brown
12-10-2006, 07:19 PM
I don't have an opinion on that tool but I picked up an Ingersol DA that is light as a feather and takes very little air. It wasn't a lot of money. I think less than $200. With air tools, the better quality, the less air they seem to take.
Also, I have two shops. One has a great compressor that puts out plenty of air that can keep up with the DA without working full duty. My other shop just had a little portable contractor style compressor that couldn't keep up so I picked up a second cheapo compressor and connected them together. It works pretty well but not as well as a good quality two stage industrial compressor.
When you paint, you're going to need a lot of air anyway. I found a single contractor style compressor wasn't up to the task of painting. It's too much a pain in the ass to watch the pressure gauge and wait for it to recover while you're trying to worry about painting. With two compressors, I can just paint and not worry about it.

Towndrunk
12-10-2006, 07:25 PM
Here is a link to the damn tool with info. How damn big a compressor do I need? Mine is 30 gallons.
http://www.mytoolstore.com/milwauke/6125.html

Tom Brown
12-10-2006, 07:29 PM
My two compressors are 5 gallons and 1.5 hp each. You might be fine with the compressor you have.
That looks like a good tool to me. I think 5/32" is a pretty normal orbit for a ROS. The fine orbit ROS seem to run at 3/32".
Do they make a 6" model? The 6" pads are more popular around here. You could also put a 6" pad on that one.

Towndrunk
12-11-2006, 04:41 AM
Yea, they have a 6" pad for it. I wonder if it will do the job. I have been sanding off and on for 3 days and haven't put a dent in it yet. Well you can see what I have done. I do't want to just feather the clear I want it all down to the gel. I don't know why I just do.
My compressor is a Coleman Power mate, 5.5 hp, 30 gal tank, yada yada. What kind of gun would I need and can I get by with a 99 dollar cheapie?

Tom Brown
12-11-2006, 07:56 AM
I probably shouldn't give you any advice on this but here's what I do:
I don't own a gun that a real painter thought was worth a shit. Hell, I've got guns I paid way less than $100 for.
I don't know how valid this is but I look for the clones. The first gun I bought is a Chinese made Binks knock-off. It paints great.
There are some guns these days with a single hole in the air cap and other design omissions that you don't see on expensive guns. I stay away from those.
One of the things to keep in mind is that you're going to need a bunch of guns. If you clear coat anything, it would be best done with a gun that you use for clear coat only. I try to keep my guns as clean as I can but there is the occasional flake of dried paint that pukes out of the gun and gets in the clear. It pissed me off so I bought another gun. You'll also want a smaller gun or two for shooting small patterns and patching clear coat. It's tough to do a good job of a small job when you're painting with a firehose and you can't do a good job of a large area when you have more material than you can shoot in the specified pot time so you need both big and small guns.
The other aspect is that I've found it cheaper to buy a new gun than buy a new tip. When I needed a 1.4mm tip for gel, I just looked for a gun with a 1.4mm tip.
.... so I went with cheap guns but I was somewhat selective in the guns I chose. Then, when I need a new gun for something it doesn't cost me a bunch of cash.

Jbb
12-11-2006, 11:02 AM
http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/closeouts/sharpe-closeouts.html

Tom Brown
12-11-2006, 08:13 PM
Hey Brian. While you're here, any idea where I can find a stainless pot or two for my guns?
That damned plastic expands if you leave it in laquer thinner for too long.

Jbb
12-11-2006, 08:22 PM
http://www.autobodytoolmart.net/search.aspx?ShowPics=1&SearchTerm=paint+gun+cups

Towndrunk
12-12-2006, 08:51 AM
Jbb, does one need different size tips for primers and paint? Should I get a book on how too? I painted some in the past but we never used anything different from primer to paints. Didn't know there was a difference back then. (30 yrs) ago.

Jbb
12-12-2006, 09:29 AM
Jbb, does one need different size tips for primers and paint? Should I get a book on how too? I painted some in the past but we never used anything different from primer to paints. Didn't know there was a difference back then. (30 yrs) ago.
Guns are cheap enough now that you should have a dedicated gun for primer...one for base coats ...and one for clear and single stage solids
Paint has changed ...it has a higher solid content than it used to....and hvlp technology is pretty much a must out West.
I have no restrictions here...and own dozens of guns....I use a binks #7 with a 36sk tip for primer gun.....{when I started in this business it was the premier gun to have...and I still have the first one I bought years ago...still sprays great}....Primer surfacers require a larger tip...
Yes you can use one gun...but you have to be very careful cleaning it
The jobber I buy from has a set with two full size guns and a touch up gun in it for $99......and they actually spray pretty well for the money
I prefer Sata,Accuspray,and Iwata guns for the work I do....but very respectable work can be done with the knockoff guns...
Also buy a gravity feed gun...it is the thing of the future and they offer better balance and less arm fatigue.
AS far as tip sizes
I use mostly a Sata NR95 gun with a 1.3 or 1.4 tip for bases ,candy bases and such...And I like the Sata RP digital with a 1.4 tip or the Iwata LPH400 1.4 for clears...
Coast airbrush www.coastairbrush.com has tons of how to videos and books....as does www.smartshoppersinc.com
Books and vids are good reference sources....like Tom Brown is..:)
But the best thing is to go to the junkyard ...get an old fender or hood.....read the books and watch the tapes....then go out there and start banging away on the dents,use bondo, repair rust.... go to a local paint jobber ...tell him what you are doing...get and read the tech sheets on the products you are gonna use...ask him If he has any mismatched paint to use on your training project{they always do...and practically give it away}Then ...prime, paint, and clear the parts....sand and buff them...you will make mistakes..and you will learn...pay close attention to the chapters on safety equipment,and dont cut corners there...There is no real secret to it and If I can do it...anyone can...It's just like anything else...it takes practice
For further reference go to my section at www.riverratlife.com Im sure there is some useable knowledge there...in amongst the nonsense..:D

Tom Brown
12-12-2006, 12:20 PM
For further reference go to my section at www.riverratlife.com Im sure there is some useable knowledge there...in amongst the nonsense..:D
Some clowns keep dumping on all the threads in there. Is that place unmoderated? :mad:

Tom Brown
12-12-2006, 12:23 PM
http://www.autobodytoolmart.net/search.aspx?ShowPics=1&SearchTerm=paint+gun+cups
Thanks! That's a great link.
I will now refrain from kicking your ass.
.... for the next 24 hours.

Jbb
12-12-2006, 12:41 PM
Some clowns keep dumping on all the threads in there. Is that place unmoderated? :mad:
They have standards?....:supp:

Jbb
12-12-2006, 12:42 PM
Thanks! That's a great link.
I will now refrain from kicking your ass.
.... for the next 24 hours.
Thanks...I could use a breather...:hammerhea

Towndrunk
12-12-2006, 01:42 PM
Guns are cheap enough now that you should have a dedicated gun for primer...one for base coats ...and one for clear and single stage solids
Paint has changed ...it has a higher solid content than it used to....and hvlp technology is pretty much a must out West.
I have no restrictions here...and own dozens of guns....I use a binks #7 with a 36sk tip for primer gun.....{when I started in this business it was the premier gun to have...and I still have the first one I bought years ago...still sprays great}....Primer surfacers require a larger tip...
Yes you can use one gun...but you have to be very careful cleaning it
The jobber I buy from has a set with two full size guns and a touch up gun in it for $99......and they actually spray pretty well for the money
I prefer Sata,Accuspray,and Iwata guns for the work I do....but very respectable work can be done with the knockoff guns...
Also buy a gravity feed gun...it is the thing of the future and they offer better balance and less arm fatigue.
AS far as tip sizes
I use mostly a Sata NR95 gun with a 1.3 or 1.4 tip for bases ,candy bases and such...And I like the Sata RP digital with a 1.4 tip or the Iwata LPH400 1.4 for clears...
Coast airbrush www.coastairbrush.com has tons of how to videos and books....as does www.smartshoppersinc.com
Books and vids are good reference sources....like Tom Brown is..:)
But the best thing is to go to the junkyard ...get an old fender or hood.....read the books and watch the tapes....then go out there and start banging away on the dents,use bondo, repair rust.... go to a local paint jobber ...tell him what you are doing...get and read the tech sheets on the products you are gonna use...ask him If he has any mismatched paint to use on your training project{they always do...and practically give it away}Then ...prime, paint, and clear the parts....sand and buff them...you will make mistakes..and you will learn...pay close attention to the chapters on safety equipment,and dont cut corners there...There is no real secret to it and If I can do it...anyone can...It's just like anything else...it takes practice
For further reference go to my section at www.riverratlife.com Im sure there is some useable knowledge there...in amongst the nonsense..:D
Thanks Jbb, I will order a vid or two. Is that candy urethane kit enough to do the top cap on my boat or is it above my hea to give it a try? Also do you have a link to the guns that you are refering to from your jobber?
Thanks
TD

Jbb
12-12-2006, 02:50 PM
Might want to hold off on the candy colors till you get a little experience.....they also require a gun with a good even consistent spray pattern.....all in due time
You might want to buy this video
http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=101s&Category_Code=4VDO
Also there is lots of information and similar questions in this forum...check it out
http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php
I will be at the jobber I use in the morning I will find out the brand and see where they are availabkle online...

Jbb
12-12-2006, 02:56 PM
Northern has a similar deal..
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTESearch?storeId=6970&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=spray%20guns&Nty=1&D=spray%20guns&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial

Towndrunk
12-12-2006, 03:17 PM
Are you refering to the Titan 4 pc on the front page for 129 and change??
Also, will my compressor be enough to use these guns?

Jbb
12-12-2006, 03:29 PM
Are you refering to the Titan 4 pc on the front page for 129 and change??
Also, will my compressor be enough to use these guns?
Yep...there are several manufacturers with combo deals out there.....I would want a 5 hp 2 stage compressor with a regulator/drier....and a toilet paper filter ...to ensure clean consistent air pressure and volume...
this being the toilet paper filter......air goes in...goes thru a roll of TP....and out...clean and dry....good insurance
http://www.autobodytoolmart.net/p-11898-2843-motor-guard-comp-air-filter-m30.aspx

Towndrunk
12-12-2006, 05:25 PM
I understand wanting all that if you're in business or doing for a friend but I am only going to do this boat. Is the one I have physically able to do this? I'm not looking for a proffesional job just a decent one.
Thanks
TD

Jbb
12-13-2006, 03:46 AM
You will probably be ok...I cant say for sure because I have never had a compressor smaller than 5 hp 80 gal/tank
One thing to consider is to do the work at home...and rent a body shops booth to do the painting in.....
Regardless of where its done ..clean,dry air is essential to a successful job.
If you are going to want to learn how to do this stuff...you're gonna have to spend some money...there is no way around that ....You have to decide if it's worth it...or is it better to bring it somewhere and have it done.

Jbb
12-13-2006, 06:53 AM
This is the set my jobber had in stock today.....He wanted $115
http://www.ketone.com/proddetail.php?prod=ATD6900&PHPSESSID=22316e15190be7d622f177506e8d6a43

Towndrunk
12-15-2006, 06:25 PM
Guys, will this air compressor do the job for me? It is sold at Home Depot and it is a Husky Model VT6314.
Thanks
TD

Tom Brown
12-16-2006, 09:43 AM
Yes

Tom Brown
12-17-2006, 11:57 AM
YIf you are going to want to learn how to do this stuff...you're gonna have to spend some money...there is no way around that ....You have to decide if it's worth it...or is it better to bring it somewhere and have it done.
I don't have anything more to add to this thread but this quote takes me back. It reminds me of some of the thoughts I had before I got into painting. "How much can it cost? Compressor. Paint gun. Respirator. Maybe a few hundred?"
Oh yeah... I've saved nothing but money! :D :D :D

Towndrunk
12-18-2006, 09:18 AM
I don't have anything more to add to this thread but this quote takes me back. It reminds me of some of the thoughts I had before I got into painting. "How much can it cost? Compressor. Paint gun. Respirator. Maybe a few hundred?"
Oh yeah... I've saved nothing but money! :D :D :D
If that Husky air compressor will handle my da sander I'll be okay.
Thanks for your help Tom and Jbb.

Towndrunk
01-07-2007, 04:51 PM
Will these guns do it? I bought a 7hp 2 stage 80 gallon compressor today and now I'm after the painting tools.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200322967_200322967

Jbb
01-09-2007, 03:32 AM
Will these guns do it? I bought a 7hp 2 stage 80 gallon compressor today and now I'm after the painting tools.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200322967_200322967
I have never used one of the Dura Block guns so I cant say......but one of the autobody boards I visit speaks pretty highly of them.....Try them out ...if they dont spray a clean ,consistent pattern....take em back

jimslade
01-10-2007, 05:06 PM
You will need a compressor with approx. 12 to 16 cfm to spray with a quality HVLP gun. There are cheap guns out there, but they don't spray like the expensive ones. The one I use cost $600.00. I spray for a living and need the best. The good ones last a long time. My Satajet is 7 years old and never let me down. I would spray a base clear urethane. It will not peel if you use a good quality (hard cure) epoxy primer. Also the clear is easy to fix if you mess up with a run or orange peel. Also get a quality respirator. Try to sand with a file board sander(air powered) it will keep the surface straight.

Towndrunk
01-24-2007, 06:12 PM
Okay then. I now have a 220 v 80 gal 7 hp oil lubed175psi air comp. It has 3 air outlets with one dedicated to spray gun only going thru 2 air filters. I bought three hvlp guns and the spray painting 101 video. I am going to buy a sand blast pot so that I can blast my frame to paint it also. BUT, I now have a pulled sciatic nerve or muscle and can't walk from the house to my shop (15'). What else should I get while I wait to heal? Any hash for sale out there??? ;0)

Tom Brown
01-24-2007, 09:56 PM
What else should I get while I wait to heal?
http://www.linecamp.com/merchants/classified_ad/wheel_chair_over_bed_table/wheel_chair_over_bed_table.jpg

Towndrunk
01-25-2007, 07:12 PM
http://www.linecamp.com/merchants/classified_ad/wheel_chair_over_bed_table/wheel_chair_over_bed_table.jpg
I may need one of those. I better check ebay!:D