Paging Sleek Jet and other jet jockey's---

[Jim W]

We were discussing this last night...
When a jet engine flys through a wall of rain water at 3-4-500 mph, how is the engine kept lit?
With the huge commercial jet engines, it's got to be in the thousands of gal. per min.
How du da du dat????
Also, isn't the water really rough on the engine in general??? Reduced engine life?
Be good, Jim

[Jbb]

Runs thru water fine.....Ignition override ensures it if in doubt......On JT8-D's we used to do an engine cleaning, per Pratt & Whitney where we would run the engine at idle and use the 1 inch line from our water service truck and spray it in the inlet for 2 minutes.......presto...clean engine...and on the larger fanjets most of any water would go thru the fan...or cold section anyways

[Sleek-Jet]

Hey... I'm now a jet jockey... :D
Brian is correct... it takes an insane amount of water to drown a jet engine... and the certification standards require them to ingest so much and still be able to produce their rated thrust... it's a pretty cool test to watch...
Youtube saves the day again...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDWFwDy8-U&NR

[Jbb]

Hail....is another story....years ago a Southern Airways DC-9 got caught in a terrible hailstorm here in North Georgia......The hail clogged the engine inlets and both engines quickly melted down......now they were a glider.....they called ATC for anyplace in the area to land......the controller was new and didnt think of Dobbins Air Force Base which was within gliding distance.....Instead they found a two lane blacktop road ...and attempted to land.....and did a great job till a wingtip clipped a gas pump.....then it turned ugly......The site of that crash is 2 miles from where I now live....
Link to story about the crash....
http://www.super70s.com/super70s/Tech/Aviation/Disasters/77-04-04(Southern).asp

[rrrr]

The crew did a good job, played the hand they were dealt....
4:16:45 S242: "Can you give us a vector to Cartersville?"
4:16:47 AA: "All right, turn left, heading of three-six-zero be directly, uh, direct vector to Cartersville."
4:16:52 S242: "Three six zero, roger."
FO: "What runway? What�s the heading on the runway?"
4:16:53 S242: "What�s the runway heading?"
4:16:58 AA: "Stand by."
4:16:59 S242: "And how long is it?"
4:17:00 AA: "Stand by."
4:17:08 Capt: "Like we are, I�m picking out a clear field."
4:17:12 FO: "Bill, you�ve got to find me a highway."
Capt: "Let�s get the next clear open field."
FO: "No (deleted)."
4:17:35 Capt: "See a highway over�no cars."
FO: "Right there, is that straight?"
4:17:39 Capt: "No."
4:17:44 AA: "Southern Two-Forty-Two, the runway configuration�"
FO: "We�ll have to take it."
4:17:55 AA: "�at Cartersville is, uh, three six zero and running north and south and the elevation is seven hundred fifty-six feet and, uh, trying to get the length of now�it�s three thousand two hundred feet long."
4:17:58 CAM: [Beep on gear horn.]
CAM: [Gear horn steady for 4 seconds.]
4:18:02 S242: "Uh, we�re putting it on the highway, we�re down to nothing."
4:18:07 FO: "Flaps."
Capt: "They�re at fifty."
FO: "Oh (deleted), Bill, I hope we can do it."
4:18:14 FO: "I�ve got it, I got it."
4:18:15 FO: "I�m going to land right over that guy."
4:18:20 Capt: "There�s a car ahead."
4:18:25 FO: "I got it Bill, I�ve got it now, I got it.
Capt: "OK."
4:18:30 Capt: "Don�t stall it."
FO: "I gotta bug."
4:18:31 FO: "We�re going to do it right here."
4:18:34 FO: "I got it."
4:18:36 CAM: [Sound of breakup.]

[Jbb]

The road they landed on .....was no where near highway size
ATC Recording....
http://www.airdisaster.com/download2/sa242.shtml

[Jbb]

More info
http://members.aol.com/Panzerbaer/so242.html

[Jim W]

I'd still like to know how the engine sheds the water and keeps the fuel burning...
Since it happens in what??? a .001 of a second, intake to exhaust.
Be good, Jim

[Boatcop]

I'd still like to know how the engine sheds the water and keeps the fuel burning...
Since it happens in what??? a .001 of a second, intake to exhaust.
Be good, Jim
At the temp the engine is running, and with the inherent compression, the water just vaporizes and cleans the vanes.
Although walnut shells work better.

[Jbb]

When jet engines are certified, one of the tests that is done is a steady flow of water if shot into the engine while at cruise settings. This water is shot from a cannon, so it is huge amount of water being shot in there and the engine has to take it and not flameout.
Airliners try to avoid heavy precip, but can take it. Procedures are to keep ignitors on and keep throttle movements to a minimum and slow movements when it is necessary.

[Tom Brown]

... so when some jagoff playing with his new berkeley powered diverter decides to wash you down..... turn your piston engine off before it hydro-locks, fire up your Trent 900 jet engine, turn the boat away from him, and melt the mother fukker's face off with full afterburner. :cool:

[Jbb]

Intense rain or hail, says Aspi Wadia of GE Aircraft Engines, can cause the combustor to burn the air-fuel mixture less efficiently. Usually this effect is negligible because the intense period of a storm is generally brief. Large aircraft engines exchange roughly the volume of air in a normal size house every second. Normal rain, hail, or snowstorms don't produce enough water to pose a problem. High-temperatures in the combustion chamber evaporate this amount of moisture. The water only adds a slight amount of steam to the burning air-fuel mixture and doesn't reduce the engine power appreciably.
Furthermore, the engine is designed to extract excessive water, snow, or hail from the air volume before it reaches the combustion chamber. The clever design uses the shape of the spinner in front of the fan and the distance between the fan and the core engine (i.e., the compressor, combustor, and turbine) to spin the heavier water, hail, and snow like a centrifuge into the bypass flow of the engine. Bypass flow never hits the combustor since it goes around the core engine.
This design provides the combustor a sufficient safety margin, says Wadia, that it can function under worst-case conditions.
In summary, jet engines evaporate small amounts of water. Engine design extracts large quantities from the compressed air before burning the air-fuel mixture. That's how jets continue to function with snow, hail, or rain falling all around them

[Jetaholic]

We were discussing this last night...
When a jet engine flys through a wall of rain water at 3-4-500 mph, how is the engine kept lit?
Because it's on a treadmill :crossx:

[squirt'nmyload]

... so when some jagoff playing with his new berkeley powered diverter decides to wash you down..... turn your piston engine off before it hydro-locks, fire up your Trent 900 jet engine, turn the boat away from him, and melt the mother fukker's face off with full afterburner. :cool:
lmao!!!!!!

[Jbb]

http://z.about.com/d/inventors/1/0/x/N/engineanimated.GIF

[3 daytona`s]

Hey... I'm now a jet jockey... :D
Brian is correct... it takes an insane amount of water to drown a jet engine... and the certification standards require them to ingest so much and still be able to produce their rated thrust... it's a pretty cool test to watch...
Youtube saves the day again...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDWFwDy8-U&NR
The Midwest is a waterfowl flyway and is a constant problem in the Fall and Spring.Especially Take off and Landing.I can remember numerous events with them.Either in windshied or engines.

[Jim W]

The clever design uses the shape of the spinner
Damn,
How can ya argue with a spinner????
I just love the shape of a petite woman.....
sorry, did I just hijack my own thread????
Be good, Jim

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Furthermore, the engine is designed to extract excessive water, snow, or hail from the air volume before it reaches the combustion chamber. The clever design uses the shape of the spinner in front of the fan and the distance between the fan and the core engine (i.e., the compressor, combustor, and turbine) to spin the heavier water, hail, and snow like a centrifuge into the bypass flow of the engine. Bypass flow never hits the combustor since it goes around the core engine.
Yep. Most folks don't know that today's high-bypass fan-jet engines (like on jetliners) have a far smaller core section, where the burner and compressor section is, than the huge fan they see in front. They see an engine (fan) 6 or 8 feet wide, and don't realize the core of the engine, a couple feet back behind the huge fan blades, is only 3 or 4 feet wide. Not nearly everything that goes in the intake cowling goes thru the engine core itself.

[Sleek-Jet]

And you guys thought JBB was just another pretty face... :D
Some of the smaller turbines (and especially turboprops and turboshaft engines) have what they call a particle seperator... it's a set of vanes that make the air turn 90* before entering the engine. The heavier water and what not can't make the turn and simply shoot straight past the intake. You lose some power doing it that way, but it's very effective.

[Jbb]

[QUOTE=Sleek-Jet;2287022]And you guys thought JBB was just another pretty face... :D
http://www.***boat.com/forums/image.php?u=1312&dateline=1164675664
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