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View Full Version : BREAKING NEWS! Most Important Boating New for '06/'07



dirty old man
12-26-2006, 08:30 AM
Received a few phone calls and e-mails over the holiday week-end wondering why there hasn't been some talk on the ***boat Forums regarding the newsletter sent out by the National Park Service about the changes coming up at Lake Mead. I think this goes to show that more former forum members than we thought can no longer post here, get their old names or passwords and can't send or receive PM's. Its a shame because a lot of former members had a lot to contribute. Its even more distressing that more of us from Las Vegas, Boulder City and the Lake Mead area haven't been heard from. This is one of the biggest stories for Lake Mead boaters since the Hoover Dam was completed in 1938 and formed our favorite lake. Of course the current low water conditions, exceeded only during the winter of '65/'66 would have caused the current situation from occuring. I boated Lake Mead in the early '60's, but in those days we drove up from So Cal, and mainly boated in Boulder Basin because in those days our boats were between 16 and 21 feet and barely had enough fuel to go through the narrows. Anyway, lets hope some knowledgable, local boater from Lake Mead will come on here and give us the true details of what will be happening between Jan 31 and Mar 1st. This will effect hundreds if not thousands of us. And lets hope ***boat Furums gets their electronic glitches sorted out

GHT
12-26-2006, 08:45 AM
Received a few phone calls and e-mails over the holiday week-end wondering why there hasn't been some talk on the ***boat Forums regarding the newsletter sent out by the National Park Service about the changes coming up at Lake Mead. I think this goes to show that more former forum members than we thought can no longer post here, get their old names or passwords and can't send or receive PM's. Its a shame because a lot of former members had a lot to contribute. Its even more distressing that more of us from Las Vegas, Boulder City and the Lake Mead area haven't been heard from. This is one of the biggest stories for Lake Mead boaters since the Hoover Dam was completed in 1938 and formed our favorite lake. Of course the current low water conditions, exceeded only during the winter of '65/'66 would have caused the current situation from occuring. I boated Lake Mead in the early '60's, but in those days we drove up from So Cal, and mainly boated in Boulder Basin because in those days our boats were between 16 and 21 feet and barely had enough fuel to go through the narrows. Anyway, lets hope some knowledgable, local boater from Lake Mead will come on here and give us the true details of what will be happening between Jan 31 and Mar 1st. This will effect hundreds if not thousands of us. And lets hope ***boat Furums gets their electronic glitches sorted out
So, what is the news? Do you have a link to the information your talking about?

rude235
12-26-2006, 08:57 AM
PLEASE clue us in on what you're referring to!!! i boat almost EXCLUSIVELY on lake mead and haven't heard of anything yet. i have heard different rumores about the overton marine. i've heard they sold out to echo bay marine and will closing/moving. and i've also heard they have a very limited amount of time to move it from the bay that it's in or it will end up landlocked! other than that, i haven't heard anything about mead.

Trailer Park Casanova
12-26-2006, 09:00 AM
Yeah,, what happened???

purrfecttremor
12-26-2006, 09:12 AM
:confused:

Baja Big Dog
12-26-2006, 09:15 AM
We are all waiting to hear the "NEWS" and hopefully you will answer the most important question.
WHY WOULD YOU POST SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND NOT GIVE THE DETAILS?
If you need attention than say so, we will all give you a goup hug!!!!:jawdrop:

H20Advantage
12-26-2006, 09:25 AM
Went directly to their site. No earth shattering news that I can find:
http://www.nps.gov/archive/lame/home.html

Boatcop
12-26-2006, 09:30 AM
I believe he's referring to the Lake Mead National Recreation Area Final Management Plan.
Studies and public comment have been going on since 1969, and produced 4 alternatives for Management of the Park, balancing Preservation, Environment, and Recreation needs.
The NPS adopted Alternative "C", which is outlined in the below link (PDF required). The provisions of this Plan will be going into effect in the coming year.
http://www.nps.gov/lame/parkmgmt/upload/lmp_feis_rod.pdf
This isn't anything new, since public comment has been going on for the past 6 years or so, and has been discussed in here on several occasions.
As the name implies, this is the FINAL plan. So if you haven't taken the time to comment in tha past 5 years, there's nothing that can be done now.

Sleek-Jet
12-26-2006, 09:34 AM
Thanks Allen for the info...
It would have been nice if the OP would have provided a link.
Other than the ban on some shore side camping nothing seems to outrageous.

Froggystyle
12-26-2006, 09:39 AM
I believe he's referring to the Lake Mead National Recreation Area Final Management Plan.
Studies and public comment have been going on since 1969, and produced 4 alternatives for Management of the Park, balancing Preservation, Environment, and Recreation needs.
The NPS adopted Alternative "C", which is outlined in the below link (PDF required). The provisions of this Plan will be going into effect in the coming year.
http://www.nps.gov/lame/parkmgmt/upload/lmp_feis_rod.pdf
This isn't anything new, since public comment has been going on for the past 6 years or so, and has been discussed in here on several occasions.
As the name implies, this is the FINAL plan. So if you haven't taken the time to comment in tha past 5 years, there's nothing that can be done now.
I fail to see any sky falling in Alt "C". Looks to me like they did away with dirty outboards and restricted Black Canyon... something always suspected.
Looks like a great compromise to me. We will end up with more water access, better Marinas with a sense that they might be around for more than the life of a lease and some good infrastructure to access north of Boulder Basin.

cxr133
12-26-2006, 09:40 AM
is this a bad thing?
The Lake Management Plan (Alternative C – Modified Preferred) will allow for a slight
increase in boating levels (5,055 boats at any one time). Facility expansion could occur
at Cottonwood Cove on Lake Mohave and at Callville Bay, Echo Bay, Overton Beach
and Temple Bar on Lake Mead. Additional public launch facilities could be constructed
at Eldorado Canyon along Lake Mohave and at Stewarts Point on Lake Mead. A new
road will be constructed to provide improved access to the north shore of the Boulder
Basin on Lake Mead.

Boatcop
12-26-2006, 09:41 AM
Thanks Allen for the info...
Just to give an idea on how long this has been going on, back in 1978-79 I was patrolling Lake Mead and Mohave with the Coast Guard. Then the Rangers were out on the lake with a clipboard counting boats manually.
That had progressed to computer models, complex matrixes, visitor surveys, etc. Everyone using the Lake on a regular basis has had some opportunity to submit their views to the NPS.
Now, whether they took advantage of those opportunities is another matter.

DILLIGAF
12-26-2006, 09:55 AM
Anybody know where Eldorado Canyon is on Lake Mohave? I tried to find it on a map but couldn't. I am curious to see where a new launching facility MIGHT be built some day.
The 200 yards away from shore being wakeless when swimmers, etc are there is a good thing as far as I am concerned.
Seems to be a 0 tolerence for drivers of the boats/jet skis concerning alcohol. Can't have any drinks at all. I am willing to do this as I have toned it down quite a bit myself based on a personal choice.

beaverretriever
12-26-2006, 10:03 AM
Thanks Allen for the link.
We are out on Lake Mead 2-3 days a week so when I saw that thread title I was like "oh crap".
Nothing outrageous in that reading. :)

Boatcop
12-26-2006, 10:03 AM
Anybody know where Eldorado Canyon is on Lake Mohave? I tried to find it on a map but couldn't. I am curious to see where a new launching facility MIGHT be built some day.
The 200 yards away from shore being wakeless when swimmers, etc are there is a good thing as far as I am concerned.
Seems to be a 0 tolerence for drivers of the boats/jet skis concerning alcohol. Can't have any drinks at all. I am willing to do this as I have toned it down quite a bit myself based on a personal choice.
ElDorado Canyon is about halfway between Cottonwood Cove (Searchlight) and Hoover Dam. You can access it from Hwy 95. The sign says (of all things) "Nelson".
There was a campground and launch facilities there, up until the late '70s. A flash flood wiped out everything, including the resident Ranger's family.

beaverretriever
12-26-2006, 10:04 AM
Seems to be a 0 tolerence for drivers of the boats/jet skis concerning alcohol. Can't have any drinks at all. I am willing to do this as I have toned it down quite a bit myself based on a personal choice.
It has always been like this. If the Park guys see a driver with a can of beer in their hand, you are getting taken in. At least it has always seemed that way to me.

jammin
12-26-2006, 11:21 AM
This is a perfect example of your goverment slowly, ever so slowly chocking down your access to public (yours allready by political decree) lands and waters. This means some of your current rights to something that is yours is being taken from you! Then after you have become used to this more will be taken for you untill you have very little left from what you started with. THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS! Remember income tax was supposed to be temporary! Now it just gets larger and larger and there is not much you can do about it.
NEVER-NEVER-NEVER roll over for this type of legislation.
If you haven't been paying attention lately, the object of these ENVIROMENTAL changes is to completly eliminate motor vehical access to our public lands and waters over a period of time.
By the way nothing is FINAL in politics, WE THE PEOPLE still have the ability to control our destiny if we choose to use it!

Essexive G's
12-26-2006, 11:25 AM
ElDorado Canyon is about halfway between Cottonwood Cove (Searchlight) and Hoover Dam. You can access it from Hwy 95. The sign says (of all things) "Nelson".
There was a campground and launch facilities there, up until the late '70s. A flash flood wiped out everything, including the resident Ranger's family.
Also known as Nelsons Landing. A mile or so north of the power lines, appx. 10 miles north of Owl Point.
I had also heard rumblings @ Cottonwood that they were going to possibly access Ski Cove, and Jackrabbit Cove ( the 2 coves just south of Cottonwood ) to increase the size of the Marina for additional slips, and moorings.

C-2
12-26-2006, 11:26 AM
Ding Ding Ding
Round 13...
In the champions corner, water rights
In this challengers corner, recreational rights
Let's have a clean fight here gentlemen

STV_Keith
12-26-2006, 11:41 AM
Looks like I'll have to find other boating outlets by 2012. The ban on 2-strokes is only the beginning. They banned them in Tahoe, and now it's coming to Mead. Next it will be Mojave and havasu, and the only option for a boat will be something with a 40k big block. Nevermind the fact that some of us have a good supply of perfectly capable engines already. :mad:

Sleek-Jet
12-26-2006, 11:59 AM
Looks like I'll have to find other boating outlets by 2012. The ban on 2-strokes is only the beginning. They banned them in Tahoe, and now it's coming to Mead. Next it will be Mojave and havasu, and the only option for a boat will be something with a 40k big block. Nevermind the fact that some of us have a good supply of perfectly capable engines already. :mad:
I thought it said "Carburated" two strokes... not all of them??

dirty old man
12-26-2006, 01:03 PM
NO NO NO Rude 235 in post #3 seems to know something. Its the fact (rumor?) that the NPS is closing up the FIRST of the 7 marinas on Lake Mead. We already know that a few of the launch ramps are already closed and some near unusable. We haven't been getting much water over the last few years, and with the need for water at both Powell and Mead, its going to be a long time before the levels rise significantly. The calls I have received are questions on this subject, but as stated, so many people are missing from the forums that we can't seen to get all the facts. Even our local web site: Las Vegas Hot Boats is silent

dirty old man
12-26-2006, 01:10 PM
NO NO NO Rude 235 is on to something that may be a rumor but its worth while checking it out. The NPS is closing the FIRST of our 7 Lake Mead marinas. (see post #3) Having so little water coming down to Powell and Mead, our water level is not coming up. With so many people no longer able to get onto this site, we're not getting good information. Even our own local site; Las Vegas Hot Boats, is quiet. Someone must know the full and correct story on this. And Boat Cop is correct on the other matter, but checking any news about Lake Mead marinas, there is nothing official

HCS
12-26-2006, 01:12 PM
Guess there won't be anywhere to launch your carburated 2 strokes. http://www.***boat.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
Details man details...........http://www.***boat.com/ubb/graemlins/idea_2.gif

riverracerXXX
12-26-2006, 01:19 PM
"the new direct injection two-stroke engines, or equivalent.." starting Dec. 31 2012

DILLIGAF
12-26-2006, 01:36 PM
ElDorado Canyon is about halfway between Cottonwood Cove (Searchlight) and Hoover Dam. You can access it from Hwy 95. The sign says (of all things) "Nelson".
There was a campground and launch facilities there, up until the late '70s. A flash flood wiped out everything, including the resident Ranger's family.
I remember reading about that flash flood.
Thanks

DILLIGAF
12-26-2006, 01:40 PM
It has always been like this. If the Park guys see a driver with a can of beer in their hand, you are getting taken in. At least it has always seemed that way to me.
Not the case but does give them a reason to come and check you out. If I just opened a can of BL up and had one sip I doubt very seriously if I will be found impaired. Also, if you are anchored or tied up you can be stinking drunk with a bottle of tequilla in hand with no problem. Doesn't matter if you have a key in the ignition or not. Once you are underway (floating) then you can get a BUI.
I have been pulled over before with a beer in front of me and haven't had any problem. I don't recommend doing that though. Not smart to poke at the rangers like that.

GHT
12-26-2006, 03:29 PM
Just to give an idea on how long this has been going on, back in 1978-79 I was patrolling Lake Mead and Mohave with the Coast Guard. Then the Rangers were out on the lake with a clipboard counting boats manually.
That had progressed to computer models, complex matrixes, visitor surveys, etc. Everyone using the Lake on a regular basis has had some opportunity to submit their views to the NPS.
Now, whether they took advantage of those opportunities is another matter.
Damn 1978 -79 you must be much older than you appear in your Avitar.
So, will they ever let go of ANY of the land along the beaches of Lake Mead for private use? If they made it more resort friendly Lake Mead could easily do more of a tourist pull than it currently does.

GHT
12-26-2006, 03:35 PM
I remember reading about that flash flood.
Thanks
Isn't Eldorado Canyon the same as Willow Beach?? :confused:

DILLIGAF
12-26-2006, 05:01 PM
Isn't Eldorado Canyon the same as Willow Beach?? :confused:
I don't know......When I am up at that part of the lake I seem to always be flying by :)

work2play
12-26-2006, 07:48 PM
I own an 8th of a houseboat in Overton. I received a phone call this afternoon from my partners. Overton marina is closing in March. The water is still going down. It will go down another twenty feet and the marina will be a mud puddle. Half of the slips are going to Calville the other half to Temple Bar. They figure by the end of summer even ski boats will have to stop launching at Overton. I was spoiled. I could get to Overton in an hour and a half. Now I will be 4 to 4 and a half hurs to Temple Bar. My partners voted to go to Temple Bar. One thing about it is there is a lot less traffic at Temple Bar. So I guess I'll just make the best of it. And pray for snow in the mountains of Utah and western Colorado so we can fill Powel and Mead back up.

Boatcop
12-26-2006, 10:41 PM
Damn 1978 -79 you must be much older than you appear in your Avitar.
So, will they ever let go of ANY of the land along the beaches of Lake Mead for private use? If they made it more resort friendly Lake Mead could easily do more of a tourist pull than it currently does.
Lake(s) Mead and Mohave are within a National Recreation Area. 1 step below a National Park. There will NEVER be private land ownership or development along the Lakes, except what's needed for recreation (concessions) like Overton, Lake Mead Marina, Callville Bay, Cottonwood Cove, Katherines, etc.
From what other have posted, it looks like the Marina and other area closures are necessitated from lack of water, rather than some Govt or Environmental plot. Once (and if) the levels come back up, operations will resume.

Outnumbered
12-26-2006, 10:53 PM
This subject is of particular interest to me since over the years Mead has become our favorite place to boat. Temple Bar and South Cove are our choices. I have been keeping a close ear to the ground on the issues and here is some info that I know:
Per the Bureau of Reclamation, Mead is forecast to drop another 10 feet by the end of next summer and an additional few feet by the following summer. Go to page 11 of this PDF link: http://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/24mo.pdf. During this time Powell is filling up. Keeping Powell full gives them more short term control over the levels of the down-stream reservoirs. They realized that they f'd up by letting Powell get so low so they are fixing it at the expense of recreation on Mead for a few years.
I checked the depth of Temple Bar marina with my depth-finder last summer and I was surprised that it is about 20-25 feet deep and fairly flat out to the break water. If we loose 15 feet TB is going to have to be moved as well and the ramp will need to be relocated because I do not see how it could be extended. With all of the money going into Temple Bar with the new house boat company and new major housing developments not far away (south of the dam) it seems that they must have a plan to keep it open. But how soon it will be in place is not known.
Over the next few years, South Cove will become unusable without major dirt-work. This will happen if the water drops another 5-7 feet from its current elevation of 1128 which is inevitable. I have talked to the NPS and they say that they are planning to keep South Cove open but their plan is vague and does not seem to be conducive to larger boats. They are talking of laying down "pipe-mat" which is like a metal grid for a temporary ramp. I have not heard the NPS plans on Temple Bar.
Also, on a side note, the SNWA is building a new water intake that will allow them to pull water from Mead 150 feet lower than the current system. http://www.snwa.com/html/about_cip_intake.html. This is scary because they would not spend this kind of money if their is not a real threat of this lake dropping another few hundred feet.
One thing I have gathered from all of my observations is that boating access to Mead is not a high priority of the people in charge. The main thing is keeping the water feeding Vegas, Phoenix, and So Cal via it and the down-stream canals. So, it seems that the next few years on Mead are going to be interesting.

Rexone
12-26-2006, 11:59 PM
This subject is of particular interest to me since over the years Mead has become our favorite place to boat. Temple Bar and South Cove are our choices. I have been keeping a close ear to the ground on the issues and here is some info that I know:
Per the Bureau of Reclamation, Mead is forecast to drop another 10 feet by the end of next summer and an additional few feet by the following summer. Go to page 11 of this PDF link: http://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/24mo.pdf. During this time Powell is filling up. Keeping Powell full gives them more short term control over the levels of the down-stream reservoirs. They realized that they f'd up by letting Powell get so low so they are fixing it at the expense of recreation on Mead for a few years.
I checked the depth of Temple Bar marina with my depth-finder last summer and I was surprised that it is about 20-25 feet deep and fairly flat out to the break water. If we loose 15 feet TB is going to have to be moved as well and the ramp will need to be relocated because I do not see how it could be extended. With all of the money going into Temple Bar with the new house boat company and new major housing developments not far away (south of the dam) it seems that they must have a plan to keep it open. But how soon it will be in place is not known.
Over the next few years, South Cove will become unusable without major dirt-work. This will happen if the water drops another 5-7 feet from its current elevation of 1128 which is inevitable. I have talked to the NPS and they say that they are planning to keep South Cove open but their plan is vague and does not seem to be conducive to larger boats. They are talking of laying down "pipe-mat" which is like a metal grid for a temporary ramp. I have not heard the NPS plans on Temple Bar.
Also, on a side note, the SNWA is building a new water intake that will allow them to pull water from Mead 150 feet lower than the current system. http://www.snwa.com/html/about_cip_intake.html. This is scary because they would not spend this kind of money if their is not a real threat of this lake dropping another few hundred feet.
One thing I have gathered from all of my observations is that boating access to Mead is not a high priority of the people in charge. The main thing is keeping the water feeding Vegas, Phoenix, and So Cal via it and the down-stream canals. So, it seems that the next few years on Mead are going to be interesting.
Recreation and boating access has always been secondary to water supply as that is what the dam system was built for, along with flood control and power production. You only notice it during drought stretches (like now). Things will return to what has become percieved as normal as soon as we have some wet years. It took several years to draw down, so it will take several years to fill up again unless we have exceptionally wet years consecutively.
Good info there btw everyone...

shueman
12-27-2006, 07:22 AM
Just read that Overton Marina is closing down on the 31st...low water level cited...

dirty old man
12-27-2006, 08:10 AM
Well, the story is finally coming out! A few more insiders and we'll have the mystery solved. But I made a mistake earlier, this is not the first marina to close, although Las Vegas Harbor Marina did not close, they relocated from Vegas Wash to Hemminway. I like the fact that its only five minutes from my home in Boulder City to the bar (I mean slip). The lake level is currently 1128 but if it falls to 1125, the record low of '65/'66, we'll loose even more launch ramps. If that happens, they only thing that will launch will be PWC's. Its very difficult now for the middle size and larger boats without half submerging your tow vehicle. I personally don't see much rain in the long term forcast so it could be a few more years before Powell and Mead come up

Outnumbered
12-27-2006, 08:44 AM
Well, the story is finally coming out! A few more insiders and we'll have the mystery solved. But I made a mistake earlier, this is not the first marina to close, although Las Vegas Harbor Marina did not close, they relocated from Vegas Wash to Hemminway. I like the fact that its only five minutes from my home in Boulder City to the bar (I mean slip). The lake level is currently 1128 but if it falls to 1125, the record low of '65/'66, we'll loose even more launch ramps. If that happens, they only thing that will launch will be PWC's. Its very difficult now for the middle size and larger boats without half submerging your tow vehicle. I personally don't see much rain in the long term forcast so it could be a few more years before Powell and Mead come up
The lake already was lower than 1128 earlier in the year when it hit 1125 in 9/2006 and in 1964/1965 it was down to 1088, per the BOR website. http://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/hourly/mead-elv.html That was the record low since it was filled. We are nowhere near that low at this point. I cannot find any info on what the NPS did in the 1964/65 season to the marinas that were in place. Anybody know?

Outnumbered
12-27-2006, 08:46 AM
I started thinking, there may not have been any marinas open in 1964. Maybe just ramps?

dirty old man
12-27-2006, 09:06 AM
I'm the only guy old enough to boat back then, but I don't remember. Never left Boulder Basin. Seems we launched where Hemminway is/was. Going to have to go back and look at my charts, don't remember the number you quote for low level, but do know that around 1120 its pretty bad

STV_Keith
12-27-2006, 12:47 PM
I thought it said "Carburated" two strokes... not all of them??
While my STV is EFI, the Scarab's V8's are carbureted. :( Hopefully soon there will be aftermarket EFI for them, but I don't think that will bypass the laws. However, most rangers have NO idea of what motor came carb'd and what came EFI and what years, etc.

Outnumbered
12-27-2006, 12:56 PM
While my STV is EFI, the Scarab's V8's are carbureted. :( Hopefully soon there will be aftermarket EFI for them, but I don't think that will bypass the laws. However, most rangers have NO idea of what motor came carb'd and what came EFI and what years, etc.
Just have EFI painted on the cowlings:D

dirty old man
12-28-2006, 09:09 AM
For those who missed it

beaverretriever
12-28-2006, 09:34 AM
My parents live in Boulder City, and I live in Henderson. My wife an I are near or at the lake at least once a week.
From what I saw, it looks like it has already come up a bit since Sept.
Lucky for us, there has been record snow on the West side of the Rockies.
Hopefully, the heavy snow will continue and the lake will get some much needed water.
I would flip if I had to tow the boat to Havasu every time I wanted to go to the lake. :( :mad:

eliminatedsprinter
12-28-2006, 10:10 AM
While my STV is EFI, the Scarab's V8's are carbureted. :( Hopefully soon there will be aftermarket EFI for them, but I don't think that will bypass the laws. However, most rangers have NO idea of what motor came carb'd and what came EFI and what years, etc.
The ban on carberated 2 strokes is just stupid, pointless, harrasment.:devil: These moters are already becoming more scarce and by 2012 there is no way there will be enough of them around to do any evironmental harm to a lake the size of Meade or Mojave. Esp since they didn't harm them back in the 80's when they were much more plentiful.:mad:

Outnumbered
12-28-2006, 10:11 AM
My parents live in Boulder City, and I live in Henderson. My wife an I are near or at the lake at least once a week.
From what I saw, it looks like it has already come up a bit since Sept.
Lucky for us, there has been record snow on the West side of the Rockies.
Hopefully, the heavy snow will continue and the lake will get some much needed water.
I would flip if I had to tow the boat to Havasu every time I wanted to go to the lake. :( :mad:
Ya, it is up about 3 feet. The snow is good. Lets hope it keeps up.