Boat Industry in trouble????????

[USCFAN]

Read this article this morning. Pretty interesting.....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16625040/

[Daytona100]

The used boat market is looking pretty good.

[andy01]

I think that may be true on the average boats being sold. But the custom builders DCB, Skater and a like are still months or years out.

[USCFAN]

I think that may be true on the average boats being sold. But the custom builders DCB, Skater and a like are still months or years out.
I think builders such as the one's you mentioned will probably always be months or a year out. It's the old supply vs. demand. I think Dave uses the same philosphy as some high end car builders. If the Demand is for 50 he will only produce 40 that way there is always more demand than supply. The quality of his boat is such that he can obviously get away with doing this. Which I am sure has a direct effect on the price he is able to get for his boats. Of course a $250,000 boat isn't for everyone but there are enough people that will pay that kind of money to keep DCB with a waiting list.

[HOTPURSUIT]

You have to be skeptical with anything MSNBC says.. that network is so far out to lunch..... look at this quote from their article.
"But coming into this year's crunch show season, the boating industry finds itself in troubled waters, beset by rising interest rates, a slowing economy and the sharpest housing slump in 15 years, which has U.S. consumers nervous."
......interest rates are going down, the economy is booming right now, and housing prices have leveled off... I have no idea what they are talking about..

[spectras only]

Happened to the sailboat dealers here ,after the market saturated by the late 80's .Prices went astronomical because of the demand/popularity with the tree huggers .The blowboat folks just kept on keeping their old boats cause the cost. We have lots of wind around here :idea: yet hardly any sailboats displayed during the boatshow . Some Hobbie cats , that's all :D

[bigq]

You have to be skeptical with anything MSNBC says.. that network is so far out to lunch..... look at this quote from their article.
"But coming into this year's crunch show season, the boating industry finds itself in troubled waters, beset by rising interest rates, a slowing economy and the sharpest housing slump in 15 years, which has U.S. consumers nervous."
......interest rates are going down, the economy is booming right now, and housing prices have leveled off... I have no idea what they are talking about..
They are not talking about martgage rates, their are signs of a slowing economy and housing prices have not even started to come down much yet...
I would'nt worry to much since most of the companies have been around during hard times anyway and know how to hanle it.

[HOTPURSUIT]

They are not talking about martgage rates, their are signs of a slowing economy and housing prices have not even started to come down much yet...
I would'nt worry to much since most of the companies have been around during hard times anyway and know how to hanle it.
just checked essex boat credit, and their fixed rate on a boat loan is 6.7% right now. (granted that is with excellent credit).. also, the economy always shows signs of slowing down and getting stronger... but as a whole the economy is absolutely excellent right now.(you cant argue that) and housing prices have gone down considerably.... thats no bs truth!

[HOTPURSUIT]

am I the only one that thinks MSNBC is about the least American network on TV right now????

[havasu5150]

MSNBC....wants you to think the economy is bad.
Stock Market is breaking records
Inflation is low
Oil is down significantly
true the housing market is making an adjustment, but many of the housing prices were so artificially high it was needed.

[dumbandyoung]

You have to be skeptical with anything MSNBC says.. that network is so far out to lunch..... look at this quote from their article.
"But coming into this year's crunch show season, the boating industry finds itself in troubled waters, beset by rising interest rates, a slowing economy and the sharpest housing slump in 15 years, which has U.S. consumers nervous."
......interest rates are going down, the economy is booming right now, and housing prices have leveled off... I have no idea what they are talking about..
yah, umm i dont think we can compare this market to the one right after gulf war. when 1% of the market was selling.. atleast not yet..haha

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I think some of the lower/lesser builders will suffer, and some may even go under, but the higher quality builders will still be around. From what I hear some of the West Coast buildes are already slowing down and some others are continuing to take orders and selling boats.

[beaverretriever]

I think that may be true on the average boats being sold. But the custom builders DCB, Skater and a like are still months or years out.
Im sure one of the reasons DCB is backed up is because they are building tons of boats just to send to dealers. You can go on Boattrader right now and find at least 8-9 BRAND new ones available. I see about 9 right now available through Extreme Marine.
http://www.boattraderonline.com/adsearch/boatsearchprocess.html

[Kilrtoy]

Im sure one of the reasons DCB is backed up is because they are building tons of boats just to send to dealers. You can go on Boattrader right now and find at least 8-9 BRAND new ones available. I see about 9 right now available through Extreme Marine.
http://www.boattraderonline.com/adsearch/boatsearchprocess.html
NOPE, Not true,
He has to wait in line just like everyone else does. First come first served

[ratso]

I think some of the lower/lesser builders will suffer, and some may even go under, but the higher quality builders will still be around. From what I hear some of the West Coast buildes are already slowing down and some others are continuing to take orders and selling boats.
No... I'm sure Bayliner is here to stay.:D

[beaverretriever]

BTW, Im watching Fast Money on MSNBC right now. They just said the financial forcast for 2007 will be a very strong yr for positive cash flow, trade, etc... They change what they say every minute...LOL
Im sure Extreme Marine has some pull with Dave. For crying out loud they are ordering 10 boats at a time. I don't care what business you are in, the big spenders always get more pull.
DCB, Skater, MTI, etc will always have a wait. High end products are usually not as affected as lower end luxury items. Overall though, people buy fun products if the economy is good or bad. They purchase them when economy is slow to get their minds off of things; and they purchase luxury items when economy is booming because they have extra cash. Just like going to Vegas, people gamble when they are depressed, or flush.

[Mandelon]

Lot's of boats have been purchased with cash out refi's and equity lines of credit. At least in the southwest where our homes have done 20% for a few years, and in some cases doubled and tripled in value over 7 years.
Those days are over. The times when you made more money just owning your home than you did going to work. That made people feel rich. Now that prices have essentially stopped climbing, and in some cases come down ten to fifteen percent, folks don't feel so wealthy anymore.
I think that's a big portion of us out there. Sure there's big ballers who can write a check for a new DCB, but they aren't lining up to buy Aftershocks and Orions and Lightnings. We'll see how it all shakes out in the coming year.

[dumbandyoung]

Lot's of boats have been purchased with cash out refi's and equity lines of credit. At least in the southwest where our homes have done 20% for a few years, and in some cases doubled and tripled in value over 7 years.
Those days are over. The times when you made more money just owning your home than you did going to work. That made people feel rich. Now that prices have essentially stopped climbing, and in some cases come down ten to fifteen percent, folks don't feel so wealthy anymore.
I think that's a big portion of us out there. Sure there's big ballers who can write a check for a new DCB, but they aren't lining up to buy Aftershocks and Orions and Lightnings. We'll see how it all shakes out in the coming year.
cant agree more

[Charley]

Im sure one of the reasons DCB is backed up is because they are building tons of boats just to send to dealers. You can go on Boattrader right now and find at least 8-9 BRAND new ones available. I see about 9 right now available through Extreme Marine.
http://www.boattraderonline.com/adsearch/boatsearchprocess.html
Dave builds around 35 boats a year, it's not a bunch actually... DCB has a pretty smart plan, much like MTI, Skater and a few others that involves a twist on supply and demand
high quality + high performance + excellent styling = high demand from people who will pay a little more for the best.
35 boats a year keeps the supply down, the overhead reasonable and the price up.
good business plan especially when you consider that 80% the people who can afford MTI's, Nortech's, Skaters and DCBs typically are not heavily affected by the economy thus even during a slow economy you still have people buying boats.

[HocusPocus]

Lot's of boats have been purchased with cash out refi's and equity lines of credit. At least in the southwest where our homes have done 20% for a few years, and in some cases doubled and tripled in value over 7 years.
Those days are over. The times when you made more money just owning your home than you did going to work. That made people feel rich. Now that prices have essentially stopped climbing, and in some cases come down ten to fifteen percent, folks don't feel so wealthy anymore.
I think that's a big portion of us out there. Sure there's big ballers who can write a check for a new DCB, but they aren't lining up to buy Aftershocks and Orions and Lightnings. We'll see how it all shakes out in the coming year.
this about sums it up, too many got in way over their heads overspending cash they didn't really have and will be forced into selling off their toys just to keep the house. with a flood of slightly used boats on the market now and coming spring new boats will be less in demand.

[ClownRoyal]

NOPE, Not true,
He has to wait in line just like everyone else does. First come first served
Not so fast my friend.
When my boat was being built at least one 32 slipped in front of me at the last minute. So, if someone wants a boat now and is will to pay retail then Dave will find a way. That includes Extreme Marine.

[Charley]

Not so fast my friend.
When my boat was being built at least one 32 slipped in front of me at the last minute. So, if someone wants a boat now and is will to pay retail then Dave will find a way. That includes Extreme Marine.
Dave does not build boats in the order of when the deposits were recieved, it is much more in the order of when the gel coat designs were recieved. :D

[Havasu1986]

Dave does not build boats in the order of when the deposits were recieved, it is much more in the order of when the gel coat designs were recieved. :D
Makes sense...kinda hard to make a boat if you don't know what it looks like.
Charley..M. Villas house is already framed. Hope to be done by July.

[Throttle]

Not so fast my friend.
When my boat was being built at least one 32 slipped in front of me at the last minute. So, if someone wants a boat now and is will to pay retail then Dave will find a way. That includes Extreme Marine.
Say it isn't so...
wuzz up stranger, u cold? good thing u got that day on the lake cuz there has not been a day like that since...

[shueman]

Lot's of boats have been purchased with cash out refi's and equity lines of credit. At least in the southwest where our homes have done 20% for a few years, and in some cases doubled and tripled in value over 7 years.
Those days are over. The times when you made more money just owning your home than you did going to work. That made people feel rich. Now that prices have essentially stopped climbing, and in some cases come down ten to fifteen percent, folks don't feel so wealthy anymore.
I think that's a big portion of us out there. Sure there's big ballers who can write a check for a new DCB, but they aren't lining up to buy Aftershocks and Orions and Lightnings. We'll see how it all shakes out in the coming year.
Damm, I hate it when your right....again & again....:D

[Rexone]

Lot's of boats have been purchased with cash out refi's and equity lines of credit. At least in the southwest where our homes have done 20% for a few years, and in some cases doubled and tripled in value over 7 years.
Those days are over. The times when you made more money just owning your home than you did going to work. That made people feel rich. Now that prices have essentially stopped climbing, and in some cases come down ten to fifteen percent, folks don't feel so wealthy anymore.
I think that's a big portion of us out there. Sure there's big ballers who can write a check for a new DCB, but they aren't lining up to buy Aftershocks and Orions and Lightnings. We'll see how it all shakes out in the coming year.
this about sums it up, too many got in way over their heads overspending cash they didn't really have and will be forced into selling off their toys just to keep the house. with a flood of slightly used boats on the market now and coming spring new boats will be less in demand.
Pretty damn close I'd say. There are many smaller builders and dealers that are "very" below normal right now in terms of sales. And also some that are not or are little affected. The number of used boats on the market (that aren't selling well themselves) is a big indicator of the above. I've also noticed there are a lot of "later model" used boats on the market, further reinforcing Mandy's theory.

[voodoomedman]

Pretty damn close I'd say. There are many smaller builders and dealers that are "very" below normal right now in terms of sales. And also some that are not or are little affected. The number of used boats on the market (that aren't selling well themselves) is a big indicator of the above. I've also noticed there are a lot of "later model" used boats on the market, further reinforcing Mandy's theory.
Yeah well mine boat is my boat and is staying in the garage in Havi. But yeah I agree. If you really want an eye opening go visit other parts of the country. And I don't mean go to New York or other large metropolis'. When I was in South Carolina most cars were from the big 3 and weren't tricked out with aftermarket accessories. Trucks were not lifted and most had 4x4 for function to get through their muddy driveways and such during winter. Boats on the lakes were ski boats or pontoons. Basically people bought what they needed and what they wanted to make them happy. Not get overextended to show off to everyone else what they have.

[Rexone]

Not get overextended to show off to everyone else what they have.
Oh cmon now, no one in Cali would do such a thing... :)

[voodoomedman]

Oh cmon now, no one in Cali would do such a thing... :)
It's true! I saw your billboard on the 10 out in the desert and decided to leverage the equity on both of my houses so I could put up a bigger and better billboard than yours.
It will simply say...................
RD Sux