PDA

View Full Version : Eddie Marine...this is a new low



fourspeednup
12-19-2005, 02:22 PM
I don't usually post subjects on this type of matter but this is a blatant rip off of the boatbling product . If anyone has seen the cuurent ***boat magazine, on the full page Eddie Marine ad there is a new item for the 496 motor. It is there but you have to look past the girls of ***boat online photo spread (very nice might I add) Apparently they designed and cut a new engine cover at their in house cnc shop with a striking similarity to the boatbling engine covers we have seen on HB members boats all over the country for over a year. I have personally witnessed the hard work and effort put forth by Patrick (Roln 20s) and Tom (Dr. Margarita) in the past two years in an effort to create a unique product which they stand behind with excellent post sale customer service.
I can understand the business mentality in which improving an existing product is simply the way things are done especially in the west coast performance boat market but the following pictures do all of the talking on this matter.
Boat bling cowlings...
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2491Engine_Cover.JPG
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/468DSC01772-med.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/497boatblingcover.jpg
Eddie Marine Cowlings...
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/3225eddie_marine_1-med.bmp
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/3225eddie_marine_2-med.bmp

BADBLOWN572
12-19-2005, 02:24 PM
Yep, definitely looks like someone "borrowed" another person's good idea. :mad: :yuk:
Thing looks EXACTLY like a Boat Bling cover. Probably took an original, made a pattern, and now that is their new product. Can someone say A$$HOLES!!!

DCBDaytona
12-19-2005, 02:26 PM
We all know that unless it's patented, it's free game. Sux for BoatBling.

Jordy
12-19-2005, 02:26 PM
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/23popcorn.jpg
:D :D :D

slink
12-19-2005, 02:27 PM
Wonder how much $$$ they're getting for them. Sucks for the "little guys" :mad: :mad: :yuk:

fourspeednup
12-19-2005, 02:27 PM
I do believe that there are several patents on the boatbling cowlings...guess we'll have to see where it goes

topless
12-19-2005, 02:29 PM
Can someone say A$$HOLES!!!Let's ask Rexone what he thinks.

riverbound
12-19-2005, 02:29 PM
We all know that unless it's patented, it's free game. Sux for BoatBling.
Funy thing is, Wes (froggystyle) did this with alot of the items on the Trident boat. and it was big drama, that he would pursue someone for "borrowing" his ideas. It does suck that Eddie "stole" the boat bling Idea. But that is what the boating industry is made up of.

Boatcop
12-19-2005, 02:29 PM
It's been happening in the boat business since Noah built the Ark.
Calling it "splashing" just sugar coats the real term...
Stealing!

BADBLOWN572
12-19-2005, 02:32 PM
If I recall properly, when Dana Marine originally came out with the hydraulic hatch hinges, Eddie copied them. I remember Dana getting a cease and desist order placed on Eddie's manufacturing of them because they were pattented.
****Could be wrong. Going off of memory.****

GHT
12-19-2005, 02:33 PM
That is straight up BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

socalmofo
12-19-2005, 02:33 PM
This is unfortunate for Boat Bling. However, There were 496 engine covers before there was a boat bling. They took the idea and put a spin on it. It sucks that someone had to copy so close to what they have done. They didn't invent the engine cover though.

GrapeApe
12-19-2005, 02:34 PM
How long before the Powers that be remove this thread???? :mad: Hate Thiefs that don't have any original ideas of there own.... :argue:
Owner & Supporter of Boat Bling!!!
*** Grape Ape ***

DCBDaytona
12-19-2005, 02:38 PM
Funy thing is, Wes (froggystyle) did this with alot of the items on the Trident boat. and it was big drama, that he would pursue someone for "borrowing" his ideas. It does suck that Eddie "stole" the boat bling Idea. But that is what the boating industry is made up of.
Well hopefully BoatBling was smart enough to do everything correctly, starting with a powerful IP attorney. If they did it right, they are good to go....Problem is, I'm sure Eddie Marine has quite an IP attorney as well. But they also have the money to take the small guy to court over a long period of time.

Froggystyle
12-19-2005, 02:38 PM
Well, I dare not come on here and come to Roln20's defense or I will just get hammered for being anti-boater or something, but that sucks ass.
I feel so bad for you guys I just threw up a little in my mouth. If you don't have a great patent attorney, let me know and I would be happy to give you some numbers. You have a large amount of protection due to a clause called "prior use" with both your prototype, marketing and distribution. With the right lawyer, you could get a large royalty off of every single one of those units that Eddie sells as well as hit them hard for damages caused by the dilution of your product's unique nature.
You all know where I stand. Thieves are the lowest form of life in any culture.

Cole Trickle
12-19-2005, 02:41 PM
That is Pretty crappy!!!!(This insults me as a BB customer) :mad:
I hope Patrick has things in order to prevent eddie marine from stealing/profiting off his design and hard work.(I would pull a Wes on them)
On a side note Boat Blings products/Service is second to none and I am proud to say I have the "real deal".(Top picture)

Havasu_Dreamin
12-19-2005, 02:44 PM
Absolutely phucking bullshit! Patrick and I were talking about this last week when HB came out. I'm sure Boat Bling has it's ducks in a row. Patrick, and Tom, you know I'm here if you need any legwork.
Phuck Eddie Marine as far as I'm concerned. I won't ever buy anything else from them and those of you that have supported Boat Bling and feel what Eddies has done is wrong should do the same!

redi4fun
12-19-2005, 02:47 PM
DAMN EDDIE MARINE,
Could you have been anymore obvious in your replication of the boatbling product. :rolleyes: Change it up a little at least. :boxed:

Dave C
12-19-2005, 02:47 PM
I don't see any resembelence...
J/K.

al cole'holic
12-19-2005, 02:48 PM
:rolleyes:

Havasu_Dreamin
12-19-2005, 02:50 PM
If someone can't see that these two are EXACTLY the same then they may want to get their eyes examined.
Boat bling cowlings...
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/6143boatblingcover.jpg
Eddie Marine Cowlings...
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/3225eddie_marine_2-med.bmp

GrapeApe
12-19-2005, 02:54 PM
If someone can't see that these two are EXACTLY the same then they may want to get their eyes examined.
One of them is Upside Down..... :D ;) Damnit... You flipped it over :cry:
*** Grape Ape ***

DCBDaytona
12-19-2005, 02:59 PM
This is unfortunate for Boat Bling. However, There were 496 engine covers before there was a boat bling. They took the idea and put a spin on it. It sucks that someone had to copy so close to what they have done. They didn't invent the engine cover though.
I agree. BB was not the first company to invent these covers. They did a "spin-off" of another company's ideas and took advantage of the perfect niche market.

Tom Brown
12-19-2005, 03:00 PM
I've always thought it was an excellent idea and a killer looking product. :cool:

OGShocker
12-19-2005, 03:02 PM
How about a big FOCK THEM to Eliminator and Shockwave for buying this sh*t from Eddie? Patrick has been out pimping his Boat Bling product to them for over a year. They knew he had the product and still chose to go to a "knock off" guy like Eddie(I never had an original thought in my fu{king life) Marine.
Why don't some of the owners of these boats go to bat for some of our brothers of the HBF? Call Eliminator and Shockwave, let'em know how you feel.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

BADBLOWN572
12-19-2005, 03:04 PM
I agree. BB was not the first company to invent these covers. They did a "spin-off" of another company's ideas and took advantage of the perfect niche market.
As far as I know, BB was the first one to come out with a billet product for the 496. Ok, Mercury came out with a plastic POS cover, but the BB cover doesn't even resemble it. There is plenty of original design and ideas in the BB cover and ZERO in Eddie's. F'em!

Kilrtoy
12-19-2005, 03:09 PM
You get what you pay for, BB is in a league of their own and on top of that mountain.. EM's cover looks like crap and are probabbly alot cheaper

HCS
12-19-2005, 03:09 PM
That's pretty crazy. Those are identical. Sucks that they'd do that.
Makes me wander though.
If you can buy a Frizbee, or you can buy a Flying Disc made by someone else.
What's to stop them from doing that.

Havasu_Dreamin
12-19-2005, 03:10 PM
How about a big FOCK THEM to Eliminator and Shockwave for buying this sh*t from Eddie? Patrick has been out pimping his Boat Bling product to them for over a year. They knew he had the product and still chose to go to a "knock off" guy like Eddie(I never had an original thought in my fu{king life) Marine.
Why don't some of the owners of these boats go to bat for some of our brothers of the HBF? Call Eliminator and Shockwave, let'em know how you feel.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Excellent post OG!

DCBDaytona
12-19-2005, 03:11 PM
How about a big FOCK THEM to Eliminator and Shockwave for buying this sh*t from Eddie? Patrick has been out pimping his Boat Bling product to them for over a year. They knew he had the product and still chose to go to a "knock off" guy like Eddie(I never had an original thought in my fu{king life) Marine.
Why don't some of the owners of these boats go to bat for some of our brothers of the HBF? Call Eliminator and Shockwave, let'em know how you feel.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Do you honestly think that the manu's will care? They're getting the same product from Eddie cheaper.

Totally IncapASSitated
12-19-2005, 03:12 PM
This is always a shitty situation, but this is free enterprise....hell just about every good idea was/is stolen from, or "splashed", something/one else in this market and every other market that exists
Hopefully they not only have a great patent attorney, but plenty of $$$ for a lengthy court battle.
This is where a board like this is truly beneficial (well of course other then all of the drama that help gets me thru the work day ;) )...pass on the word to those that you know in the market for one of these which one to buy!!!!

Dave C
12-19-2005, 03:14 PM
ummmm no still don't see any resemblence ;) ;)
If someone can't see that these two are EXACTLY the same then they may want to get their eyes examined.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/497boatblingcover.jpg
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/3225eddie_marine_2-med.bmp

DCBDaytona
12-19-2005, 03:14 PM
This is always a shitty situation, but this is free enterprise....hell just about every good idea was/is stolen from, or "splashed", something/one else in this market and every other market that exists
Hopefully they not only have a great patent attorney, but plenty of $$$ for a lengthy court battle.
This is where a board like this is truly beneficial (well of course other then all of the drama that help gets me thru the work day ;) )...pass on the word to those that you know in the market for one of these which one to buy!!!!
This is the problem. Even if BB has a patent pending, etc, they don't have the financial backing of Eddie Marine. EM will just hold it up in court until BB backs off from the bills. Many small companies go under from this on a daily basis.

OGShocker
12-19-2005, 03:15 PM
This is always a shitty situation, but this is free enterprise....hell just about every good idea was/is stolen from, or "splashed", something/one else in this market and every other market that exists
Hopefully they not only have a great patent attorney, but plenty of $$$ for a lengthy court battle.
This is where a board like this is truly beneficial (well of course other then all of the drama that help gets me thru the work day ;) )...pass on the word to those that you know in the market for one of these which one to buy!!!!
DRAMA? I'll give you DRAMA!!! The is NOT intended be a threat, real or imagined.

Cole Trickle
12-19-2005, 03:17 PM
How about a big FOCK THEM to Eliminator and Shockwave for buying this sh*t from Eddie? Patrick has been out pimping his Boat Bling product to them for over a year. They knew he had the product and still chose to go to a "knock off" guy like Eddie(I never had an original thought in my fu{king life) Marine.
Why don't some of the owners of these boats go to bat for some of our brothers of the HBF? Call Eliminator and Shockwave, let'em know how you feel.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Great post and my thought exactly!!!
I was dissapointed to see Eliminator but saddened to see Shockwave since Barry visits the boards so often and would know the product that Patrick is selling.

OGShocker
12-19-2005, 03:19 PM
Do you honestly think that the manu's will care? They're getting the same product from Eddie cheaper.
Actually, Yes I Do. When someone spends a dollar with our company, we care what they think. When I spend a dollar with someone they better care what I think, if they want me back.

mbrown2
12-19-2005, 03:20 PM
Do you honestly think that the manu's will care? They're getting the same product from Eddie cheaper.
I doubt they will care....supply and demand; cheaper product wins in this case. Its unfortunate.

Magic34
12-19-2005, 03:23 PM
Do you honestly think that the manu's will care? They're getting the same product from Eddie cheaper.
That is why I entered the speaker cover market and and made an exit just as quickly.

slink
12-19-2005, 03:25 PM
How about a big FOCK THEM to Eliminator and Shockwave for buying this sh*t from Eddie? Patrick has been out pimping his Boat Bling product to them for over a year. They knew he had the product and still chose to go to a "knock off" guy like Eddie(I never had an original thought in my fu{king life) Marine.
Why don't some of the owners of these boats go to bat for some of our brothers of the HBF? Call Eliminator and Shockwave, let'em know how you feel.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Never know.....Not trying to defend anyone, but did EM have SW's or Eliminators permission to use their name ? I don't know. I do know the BB has SW permission, because I was there the day Patrick negotiated it with BD and Bob. In fact, I ordered mine that same day and have the first SW one (other than the demo). I totally back BB on this. BTW, I just called EM and they said they could engrave "most all" builders on their covers ($350). Again, don't know if it's w/ permission or not. Just my 02.

DCBDaytona
12-19-2005, 03:27 PM
I doubt they will care....supply and demand; cheaper product wins in this case. Its unfortunate.
My point exactly. It's a sad situation...But look at it this way...Do you think Leach or Hemmingson care? If you opt to not buy their boats, they'll simply open that spot for someone else.

Havasu_Dreamin
12-19-2005, 03:29 PM
But look at it this way...Do you think Leach or Hemmingson care?
DCB sells 496's? :p

slink
12-19-2005, 03:30 PM
DCB sells 496's? :p
Only if you don't drink the Koolaide :cool:

BadKachina
12-19-2005, 03:30 PM
I had never even heard of Boat Bling. I know a buddy of mine bought one from Custom Cowlings (http://www.customcowlings.com/index.html) about a year ago. They have about ten designs and some are similar to the pictures that are posted. Do you have a patent on that particular item?
How many companies make battery boxes for Optima batterries?
Anodized cup holders?
Anodized bezels?
Sea strainers?
Cleats?
Billet controls?
Seat bases? I could go on all day.
Yes it sucks that you had an idea and it was copied but it's just metal and paint. People will buy your product if you design is better, your customer service is better or your price is better. Your product looks nice in the picture, I hope you do well.

WaTchTheGelCoat
12-19-2005, 03:33 PM
If someone can't see that these two are EXACTLY the same then they may want to get their eyes examined.
I dont think they look excatly the same. The quality of work looks 100% better on the BB cover!

DCBDaytona
12-19-2005, 03:33 PM
I had never even heard of Boat Bling. I know a buddy of mine bought one from Custom Cowlings (http://www.customcowlings.com/index.html) about a year ago. They have about ten designs and some are similar to the pictures that are posted. Do you have a patent on that particular item?
How many companies make battery boxes for Optima batterries?
Anodized cup holders?
Anodized bezels?
Sea strainers?
Cleats?
Billet controls?
Seat bases? I could go on all day.
Yes it sucks that you had an idea and it was copied but it's just metal and paint. People will buy your product if you design is better, your customer service is better or your price is better. Your product looks nice in the picture, I hope you do well.
That's the Co. I was talking about...F&M have been making these covers for quite a while. Not sure if F&M or BB came first, but there are others out there besides BB

BadKachina
12-19-2005, 03:34 PM
That is why I entered the speaker cover market and and made an exit just as quickly.
Did you make those cover for Gross's Magic? If you did those are some nice pieces.

Outnumbered
12-19-2005, 03:34 PM
I had never even heard of Boat Bling. I know a buddy of mine bought one from Custom Cowlings (http://www.customcowlings.com/index.html) about a year ago. They have about ten designs and some are similar to the pictures that are posted. Do you have a patent on that particular item?
How many companies make battery boxes for Optima batterries?
Anodized cup holders?
Anodized bezels?
Sea strainers?
Cleats?
Billet controls?
Seat bases? I could go on all day.
Yes it sucks that you had an idea and it was copied but it's just metal and paint. People will buy your product if you design is better, your customer service is better or your price is better. Your product looks nice in the picture, I hope you do well.
The only problem with your argument is that the design is exactly the same, right down to the flames. They are an exact match. Are you guys sure that Roln20s didn't sell his design to Eddie? It seems to be an EXACT match. I am no fan of Eddie (don't get me started) but that is just too similar not to be an exact copy.

Jordy
12-19-2005, 03:38 PM
I had never even heard of Boat Bling. I know a buddy of mine bought one from Custom Cowlings (http://www.customcowlings.com/index.html) about a year ago. They have about ten designs and some are similar to the pictures that are posted. Do you have a patent on that particular item?
How many companies make battery boxes for Optima batterries?
Anodized cup holders?
Anodized bezels?
Sea strainers?
Cleats?
Billet controls?
Seat bases? I could go on all day.
Yes it sucks that you had an idea and it was copied but it's just metal and paint. People will buy your product if you design is better, your customer service is better or your price is better. Your product looks nice in the picture, I hope you do well.
You have a Kachina and dance to the YMCA. What do you know??? :D :D :D
Too bad you guys don't work on outboards... ;)

Havasu_Dreamin
12-19-2005, 03:38 PM
Are you guys sure that Roln20s didn't sell his design to Eddie?
100% sure they did not sell the design.
As far as the F&M covers, they are not even similar in terms of the overall design/appearance. If you put F&M cover next to a Boat Bling you can tell the difference, easily. The same can not be said for Boat Bling and the Eddie Marine knockoff.

Moneypitt
12-19-2005, 03:40 PM
The designs were probably programed off the same CNC software........MP

Outnumbered
12-19-2005, 03:41 PM
100% sure they did not sell the design.
As far as the F&M covers, they are not even similar in terms of the overall design/appearance. If you put F&M cover next to a Boat Bling you can tell the difference, easily. The same can not be said for Boat Bling and the Eddie Marine knockoff.
OK, well, in that case, F uck Eddie :cool:

Cole Trickle
12-19-2005, 03:41 PM
That's the Co. I was talking about...F&M have been making these covers for quite a while. Not sure if F&M or BB came first, but there are others out there besides BB
I saw the F&M covers at the boat show before I purchased my BB cover and the differences are more than noticable.
F&M is an exact copy of the standard Merc 496 Plastic cover and honestly looks nothing like Patricks design.(Yes they have tribal flames)
I understand taking an idea and making it your own but putting something on a table scaing it with a vector arm and cutting it on a water jet is hardly R&D. (In my oppinion Eddie Marine did a blatant rip off of the BB cover)
I appologize to Shockwave and Eliminator if they did not authorize Eddide to make those covers.

DCBDaytona
12-19-2005, 03:41 PM
100% sure they did not sell the design.
As far as the F&M covers, they are not even similar in terms of the overall design/appearance. If you put F&M cover next to a Boat Bling you can tell the difference, easily. The same can not be said for Boat Bling and the Eddie Marine knockoff.
If this is the case, I sure hope BB Copyrighted all their designs. But it comes down to whomever has the deepest pockets, and in this case I think EM will win the battle.

ViB
12-19-2005, 03:42 PM
That is why I entered the speaker cover market and and made an exit just as quickly.
Hey Magic, I would love to learn more about the 'speaker cover' side of things if you ever feel like calling...Stu

DAB
12-19-2005, 03:43 PM
The only problem with your argument is that the design is exactly the same, right down to the flames. They are an exact match. Are you guys sure that Roln20s didn't sell his design to Eddie? It seems to be an EXACT match. I am no fan of Eddie (don't get me started) but that is just too similar not to be an exact copy.
Good point.. maybe Patrick has inked a deal with EM to sell covers under their own "brand", if so great business decision. If not, big problem.. As far as Eliminator or Shockwave knowingly allowing this, if any one of us called any of the EM's, Dana, etc..etc.. if they've done any work for the boat mfgr's they probably have legal use of their name on products.. hell I recently put on a new switch panel and had the Shockwave logo put on, no questions asked..

OGShocker
12-19-2005, 03:46 PM
Never know.....Not trying to defend anyone, but did EM have SW's or Eliminators permission to use their name ? I don't know. I do know the BB has SW permission, because I was there the day Patrick negotiated it with BD and Bob. In fact, I ordered mine that same day and have the first SW one (other than the demo). I totally back BB on this. BTW, I just called EM and they said they could engrave "most all" builders on their covers ($350). Again, don't know if it's w/ permission or not. Just my 02.
Thank's for the information, Slink! Now get back out on patrol...:D

Totally IncapASSitated
12-19-2005, 03:50 PM
This is the problem. Even if BB has a patent pending, etc, they don't have the financial backing of Eddie Marine. EM will just hold it up in court until BB backs off from the bills. Many small companies go under from this on a daily basis.
That was exactly my point. I'm well aware of how many companies fall victim to circumstances such asthese and it is unfortunate...ethics go out the door in a hurry when the chance for an easy $$$ presents itself.

BadKachina
12-19-2005, 03:53 PM
You have a Kachina and dance to the YMCA. What do you know??? :D :D :D
Too bad you guys don't work on outboards... ;)
I really don't know much about anything, but I can drink beer and BS with the best of them. It looks like you broke the mixer off one of those egg beaters, what's the story on that and what are you doing to fix it?

superdave013
12-19-2005, 04:08 PM
what's new here?
Little Mike @ MLJ is the #1 most knocked off guy in the boat hardware industry.
Why do you think I stopped posting pics of the parts I make? I got tired of seeing others knocking them off is why.

bigkatboat
12-19-2005, 05:22 PM
Thanks DAVE! Most boat part 'designers' just make "small changes", and call it "MY OWN DESIGN", but we all know where the IDEA came from. Mike's fuel/ water valve has been a "real money maker" for lots of shops, but nobody (at this time in history) can say "I am the first" to make this part. You and I don't know guys back east (that do this stuff), nor do we know guys in Europe or China. I could say that any cavitation control that mounts to the stringer and has 'slots' to hold it's adjustments is a "rip off" of our stuff. Why bother? That type of control is "form follows function" and anyone with a brain can see it. Mike makes one VERY similar to ours and it is very nice. To attack Eddie Borges because he 'has it together' is counter productive, making boating SAFER AND AFFORDABLE. should be the most important goal. Did "the original guys" talk to 'Eddie' and make a deal to sell him parts? Why not? He has a point of sale in place, and they don't. Did Eddie talk to a guy that "gave him the idea"? I don't know, but purchase the part that works best for you. I'll be talking to a number of 'retail machines' like Eddie Marine when it comes time to market my surface drive. Am I the first, don't think so. Am I going to bring something new, maybe? Am I going to protect my "ideas"? YOU BET!

hot_diggity_dog
12-19-2005, 05:42 PM
We all have a say and can influence many people who purchase these items, as well as boats etc.
DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS
Stay loyal to peeps like BoatBling.
HDD

Magic34
12-19-2005, 06:02 PM
I don't think that EM would be that lame. My bet is they are buying them from BB. Especially after looking at those 2 designs side by side. They would have at least changed the design a little. That looks like an exact copy, and probably is a BB cover.
So, I think BB is selling to EM like DAB said.

Magic34
12-19-2005, 06:02 PM
Hey Magic, I would love to learn more about the 'speaker cover' side of things if you ever feel like calling...Stu
PM me your number, I'll answer whatever you want to know.

78Eliminator
12-19-2005, 06:10 PM
That makes me physically ill. I know the work and creativity it takes to make a true custom piece and to steal it shows a complete lack of character. For shame.

phebus
12-19-2005, 06:28 PM
Three pages of ***boat Lynchmob Mentality. I've got an idea, before jumping to conclusions, why don't we wait for either Patrick, Tom, or Eddie Marine to come on hear with their side of the story.

Havasu_Dreamin
12-19-2005, 07:40 PM
Three pages of ***boat Lynchmob Mentality. I've got an idea, before jumping to conclusions, why don't we wait for either Patrick, Tom, or Eddie Marine to come on hear with their side of the story.
Just got off the phone with Patrick. Boat Bling did not sell the design to Eddie nor enter into any type of agreement. They are aware of what is going on and are taking the steps they deem necessary.
Edit: I know some peeps will just say well that's from someone saying they spoke to Patrick. Patrick will be on here later to address the whole thing.

Havasu_Dreamin
12-19-2005, 07:46 PM
To attack Eddie Borges because he 'has it together' is counter productive
Blatantly stealing someone elses design does not qualify as 'having it together' in my book.

Froggystyle
12-19-2005, 07:54 PM
Do you honestly think that the manu's will care? They're getting the same product from Eddie cheaper.
I care.

Roman 1
12-19-2005, 08:10 PM
Those covers are Blingtastic :sleeping: must be good for at least 300 horses and 15 mph, just missing a few racing decals. Bwaaaaaahahahahaha!
R1 :rollside:

Magic34
12-19-2005, 08:13 PM
I care.
This is true and rare.

Magic34
12-19-2005, 08:29 PM
Just got off the phone with Patrick. Boat Bling did not sell the design to Eddie nor enter into any type of agreement. They are aware of what is going on and are taking the steps they deem necessary.
Edit: I know some peeps will just say well that's from someone saying they spoke to Patrick. Patrick will be on here later to address the whole thing.
Yeah, that's weak.

Havasu_Dreamin
12-19-2005, 08:34 PM
Yeah, that's weak.
Me or EM?

OGShocker
12-19-2005, 08:36 PM
Those covers are Blingtastic :sleeping: must be good for at least 300 horses and 15 mph, just missing a few racing decals. Bwaaaaaahahahahaha!
R1 :rollside:
Alright who left the toilet seat up again???

Havasu Hangin'
12-19-2005, 08:40 PM
Alright who left the toilet seat up again???
You mean V-DRIVE VIDEO?

Magic34
12-19-2005, 08:43 PM
Me or EM?
Isn't Me just EM backwards.... :)
I was talking about EM..

Havasu_Dreamin
12-19-2005, 08:48 PM
Isn't Me just EM backwards.... :)
Well, yeah. :rollside:

OGShocker
12-19-2005, 08:51 PM
You mean V-DRIVE VIDEO?
Every time you leave the seat up, Roman1 slithers out. I was amazed to see he didn't use the term "focking yuppie" in his post.

Havasu Hangin'
12-19-2005, 09:06 PM
Every time you leave the seat up, Roman1 slithers out. I was amazed to see he didn't use the term "focking yuppie" in his post.
Roman 1 is nothing more than an alias idiots use because they don't have the balls to post under their real screename.

roln 20s
12-19-2005, 10:21 PM
Thanks for all the responses and support.
1) We do have US PATENTS (not pending...actually have).
2) We do have an excellent PATENT attorney and he is aware of our situation.
3) We have NOT entered into any agreement with Eddie Marine or any other companies.
4) F&M and Boat Bling debuted their personal line of covers at the LA Boat Show 2005.
5) We designed, tested and began Boat Bling and these covers in the spring of 2004.
6) We have signed rights from all Manufacturers we with work directly to create their logos on our Boat Bling covers.
7) We are disappointed this has happened but honestly, I am not surprised this has occured. We are prepared for whatever we have to do.
Thanks for all of your support. We will continue to do what we do: offer the BEST products with the BEST and ONLY personal service. Every customer has my cell phone and I GUARANTEE you will be completely satisfied...or you get your money back...and I'll let you keep the COVER.
We may be a "little" guy in this huge industry, but I assure you we are not going anywhere. We're already getting ready for the LA Boat Show and the 2006 season. We have a few new products coming up along with a NEW BOAT BLING product you will all recognize.
Happy Holidays!
Patrick
patrick@boatbling.net
Any comments, please feel free to email me :)

Outnumbered
12-19-2005, 10:27 PM
Thanks for all the responses and support.
1) We do have US PATENTS (not pending...actually have).
2) We do have an excellent PATENT attorney and he is aware of our situation.
3) We have NOT entered into any agreement with Eddie Marine or any other companies.
4) F&M and Boat Bling debuted their personal line of covers at the LA Boat Show 2005.
5) We designed, tested and began Boat Bling and these covers in the spring of 2004.
6) We have signed rights from all Manufacturers we with work directly to create their logos on our Boat Bling covers.
7) We are disappointed this has happened but honestly, I am not surprised this has occured. We are prepared for whatever we have to do.
Thanks for all of your support. We will continue to do what we do: offer the BEST products with the BEST and ONLY personal service. Every customer has my cell phone and I GUARANTEE you will be completely satisfied...or you get your money back...and I'll let you keep the COVER.
We may be a "little" guy in this huge industry, but I assure you we are not going anywhere. We're already getting ready for the LA Boat Show and the 2006 season. We have a few new products coming up along with a NEW BOAT BLING product you will all recognize.
Happy Holidays!
Patrick
patrick@boatbling.net
Any comments, please feel free to email me :)
Good luck Patrick. Keep us posted.

Wally_Gator
12-20-2005, 07:19 AM
This is purely conjecture...
But I have witnessed it before...
Company A has an excellent product and pitches it to a retailer (or boat manufacturer).
Retailer then contacts their favorite Bompany B who can fabricate.
They say, how much can you make Company A's product for and "Give us a good Deal".
Company B ends up making the product and underbidding Company A at the retailers suggestion and request.
I have witnessed this two or three times at one retailer I worked for (Not boat related). They ripped off small manufacturer's designs. These small companies went under because of this. Not to mention they did not have IP protection.
Here, Could Shockwave and Eliminator have done this? Maybe... If they are smart, they had nothing to do with it.
EM should be held to the fire for knocking off BB's product.
Maybe Froggy's IP attorney might want to know some of the small manufacturers here on HB?

haulina29
12-20-2005, 07:50 AM
I find this very interesting , in the hot rod market they have been offering theses covers for years before I saw them on Hot Boat also how do you patent something that GM designs in plastic long before somebody made them out of aluminum? Boyd , Troy and Chip have been making theses for ten years or more out of aluminum. Its kind of lame that Eddie didnt buy them from them and market them but its not like they invented the wheel here.

superdave013
12-20-2005, 08:26 AM
just a question here. And don't shoot me for it as it's just a question.
What if the shoe was on the other foot. Would that be ok? I know for a fact that some of the billet rock stars around here knocked off others designs and a crap load of you are running them in your boats.
But that's prolly ok because they have a high post count. lmao
haulina29, I too have seen covers on hot rods for a long time. But I've yet to see one that is JUST LIKE the Boat Bling guys. I mean if you are gonna do it at least switch it up a bit.
Kinda like Braksma knocking off the Kuhl river rat pump. He could have put the ports in a different location and made it look like a totaly different pump.

Dave C
12-20-2005, 08:54 AM
good job!!.... :D
This ought to be interesting..... wouldn't you like to be the fly on the wall of that conversation.
Thanks for all the responses and support.
1) We do have US PATENTS (not pending...actually have).

redi4fun
12-20-2005, 09:16 AM
Should be a slam dunk if boatbling has their legal business in order. :crossx:
Will be interesting to see what the outcome is?

riverroyal
12-20-2005, 09:25 AM
boaters,whos cover is cheaper and who has them in stock?Thats the one they will buy

NOTALENT
12-20-2005, 10:13 AM
wow...that sucks...I guess a patent didnt do shit....Ban Eddie Marine from future Purchases to support the HB Bro's.!!!

topless
12-20-2005, 10:33 AM
Well kiss my grits Phebus! Did you people just wake up? Where the hell did you think Eddie came from anyway? Anyone got a clue who it was that taught him everything he knows (except he flunked integrity 101) ? Wonder why most of his designs look ALOT like the same ones you'd see IF "someone else" had a "catalog"!
NEXT !
Are we getting a clue yet? Oh yeah, CORONA, WAKE UP ! Would the rat bastard that appropriated some designs and the rolodex from San Dimas kindly return said items before we name you too? :mad:
I'll be damned if I shop at Walmart because they peddle "knock-offs" and the originator gets the shaft and I'll be damned if I'll use copy kat products for the same reason. Some one has worked long and hard while investing their time, effort and MONEY. What's right is right and snatching some one elses idea is theft which in my book is lack of integrity. You might think that it's NOT hurting anyone and you're saving a few bucks BUT while the larger business can take a hit and survive -the smaller business that's just getting established and doesn't have that many product lines can't.
Think I'll go and find somebody that'll build me a STRIDENT deck boat for 1/3 off. Froggy will never miss just 1 lil ole boat sale! Ya think?
RioYes, I know where Eddie came from and who gave him his start. The person who did is much bigger and has ethics. It shows in his customer service and satisfied customers. Just remember what goes around comes around.

dr. margarita
12-20-2005, 12:01 PM
wow...that sucks...I guess a patent didnt do shit....Ban Eddie Marine from future Purchases to support the HB Bro's.!!!
You ROCK bro!!! That's what all this means!! We support each other and HB's support for our product and the individulas that created it has been nothing short of phenomenal. Same for the all the custom boat manufacturers!
On the patent issue Haulina29: There are two basic kinds of patents, design and utiltiy. There is no way to get a utiltiy patent on an engine cover for obvious reasons. But on a distinctive looking part or accessory you can get some protection with a design patent which is what we have...not pending, HAVE IN OUR POSSESSION! We all see the resemblance, it's obvious, however, it will be left to a judge and jury to finally determine. Will we get that far? Is there a win, win scenario that can achieved? We'll see. Simply put, a patent is only as good as your ability to defend it.
Thank you again for your support and comments! See ya on the lake.

badtaste
12-20-2005, 01:17 PM
Get real............Cowlings are for the poor! ................That can't afford real parts ..............a coverup if you will! Shit or get off the pot! Don't try and fool me with your engine covers.............You have it or you dont! ......But on the other hand don't steal product that doesen't belong to you! :rolleyes:
Hava-niceday............HavaSquid.
P.S. Build engines not covers to hide what you don't have!!! :rollside:
I wouldn't say "cowlings are for the poor"... as a $3000-$4000 engine upgrade, the 496 HO is hardly "cheap". Just a great choice for someone wanting extreme reliability. my .02

U.T.B.A.V-Drive man
12-20-2005, 01:28 PM
Why do you even need a motor cover under a moter cover???????????

LakeRacer
12-20-2005, 01:43 PM
Why do you even need a motor cover under a moter cover???????????
Why would anyone even want a boat? :rolleyes:

Cole Trickle
12-20-2005, 01:59 PM
Why would anyone even want a boat? :rolleyes:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2898group.jpg
:D
I think the Boat Bling covers look great!!
If someone wants to personalize there engine bay with a cover or nice battery boxes more power to them. :)

badtaste
12-20-2005, 02:01 PM
16 reasons. :rollside:

Old Texan
12-20-2005, 02:13 PM
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2898group.jpg
:D
I think the Boat Bling covers look great!!
If someone wants to personalize there engine bay with a cover or nice battery boxes more power to them. :)
Now THAT's a cover.............. :cool:

HM
12-20-2005, 02:14 PM
Eddie Marine has boat parts?

moneypit
12-20-2005, 02:28 PM
I have a few questions-
Who made the first billet battery box?
WHo made the first cup holder?
Who made the first drop down bolster?
Who made the first Horn?
Who made the first winshield?
Catch my drift? It should be a long dealio for Rolns 20. I have purchased a boat bling cover and lke it alot. But this is the way it goes.It sucks that EM didnt get boat bling involved or even consult with them. In the tight circle of west coast boating products you would think EM would have taken a different route.

Boa1277
12-20-2005, 02:30 PM
If someone can't see that these two are EXACTLY the same then they may want to get their eyes examined.
Dont those look like Tridents, Go Get Im Froggy (AKA Wes) J/K

dr. margarita
12-20-2005, 02:42 PM
16 reasons. :rollside:
I count 24 :rolleyes:

KACHINA KEN
12-20-2005, 02:44 PM
Patricks best move right now is to file for an injunction. It will prevent them from manufacturing or shipping anymore of these until the case is heard in court.

badtaste
12-20-2005, 02:45 PM
I count 24 :rolleyes:
you're right Doc... how could I not count the kitties? Good catch.

dr. margarita
12-20-2005, 02:45 PM
It sucks that EM didnt get boat bling involved or even consult with them.
Exactly! That would have been a class act cause we would have welcomed a team approach.

OGShocker
12-20-2005, 02:49 PM
Exactly! That would have been a class act cause we would have welcomed a team approach.
Sorry you and Patrick have to go through this, Tom.
Mark

superdave013
12-20-2005, 02:52 PM
The designs were probably programed off the same CNC software........MP
no way
Look closer and you will see Ol' Eddie has his cuts a little to close to the bolt holes. ;)

superdave013
12-20-2005, 03:04 PM
just a question here. And don't shoot me for it as it's just a question.
What if the shoe was on the other foot. Would that be ok? I know for a fact that some of the billet rock stars around here knocked off others designs and a crap load of you are running them in your boats.
But that's prolly ok because they have a high post count. lmao
haulina29, I too have seen covers on hot rods for a long time. But I've yet to see one that is JUST LIKE the Boat Bling guys. I mean if you are gonna do it at least switch it up a bit.
Kinda like Braksma knocking off the Kuhl river rat pump. He could have put the ports in a different location and made it look like a totaly different pump.
Ok, I've gotten a few pm's about this post. Pretty much thinking I'm talking about them. Well I am talking about some people around here but so far none of the one's that pm'ed me.
Let's just say flip it around like this. Say a little guy like .. I donno what the heck, Like myself that have milling machines and lathes. What if we knocked off one of the big players (like Rex, Dana or CP and the like)? Would that suck just as bad? I think it would but I know a bunch of you guys still buy the parts from people who have done it. Just tossing out another side of thinking into the lynch mob is all.
BTW, I don't sell production billet, only one off stuff.
Oh, and Bigkatboat,,,, I'm sorry I left you off the most knocked off list. I was wondering why lighting was striking close to me when I was making parts for my cav plate assy. ;)

RiverDave
12-20-2005, 03:09 PM
no way
Look closer and you will see Ol' Eddie has his cuts a little to close to the bolt holes. ;)
Yep...

meaniam
12-20-2005, 03:11 PM
If someone can't see that these two are EXACTLY the same then they may want to get their eyes examined.
yeap my doc has confimed what everyone has been saying all my life. his expert opinion is i should have a walking cane and seeing eye dog. eddie can rip off anyone he wants . his customer service will sink his ship. he should quit hiring from the temp agency..

superdave013
12-20-2005, 03:13 PM
Yep...
what up lurker?

ViB
12-20-2005, 03:16 PM
Oh sure, bag on the lynch mob.... :rollside:
Ok, I've gotten a few pm's about this post. Pretty much thinking I'm talking about them. Well I am talking about some people around here but so far none of the one's that pm'ed me.
Let's just say flip it around like this. Say a little guy like .. I donno what the heck, Like myself that have milling machines and lathes. What if we knocked off one of the big players (like Rex, Dana or CP and the like)? Would that suck just as bad? I think it would but I know a bunch of you guys still buy the parts from people who have done it. Just tossing out another side of thinking into the lynch mob is all.
BTW, I don't sell production billet, only one off stuff.
Oh, and Bigkatboat,,,, I'm sorry I left you off the most knocked off list. I was wondering why lighting was striking close to me when I was making parts for my cav plate assy. ;)

RiverDave
12-20-2005, 03:17 PM
Ok, I've gotten a few pm's about this post. Pretty much thinking I'm talking about them. Well I am talking about some people around here but so far none of the one's that pm'ed me.
Let's just say flip it around like this. Say a little guy like .. I donno what the heck, Like myself that have milling machines and lathes. What if we knocked off one of the big players (like Rex, Dana or CP and the like)? Would that suck just as bad? I think it would but I know a bunch of you guys still buy the parts from people who have done it. Just tossing out another side of thinking into the lynch mob is all.
BTW, I don't sell production billet, only one off stuff.
Oh, and Bigkatboat,,,, I'm sorry I left you off the most knocked off list. I was wondering why lighting was striking close to me when I was making parts for my cav plate assy. ;)
I was under the impression you were talking about me.. LOL But I never PM'd you. Just kind of figured it was a given. :D
The only thing I ever knocked off was my optima battery box.. But even then I took something I liked, and (important here) made it better!! So while it was a derrivative, it wasn't just a knock off.. Rather an improvement on what I felt was the best thing going.
RD

Tom Brown
12-20-2005, 03:18 PM
Yep...
Hey Dave...
You know that Optima battery box I bought from you?
I hope you don't mind but I borrowed the design and am kicking them out the door for 80 bucks per unit.

RiverDave
12-20-2005, 03:18 PM
Hey Dave...
You know that Optima battery box I bought from you?
I hope you don't mind but I borrowed the design and am kicking them out the door for 80 bucks per unit.
Have at it Hoss.. :D I'm outta the biz, so I don't much care. ;)
RD

superdave013
12-20-2005, 03:22 PM
well I'm still not naming any names but it looks like my post got you out of lurker mode. :D
lil Mr is much better then "billet boy" anyway Dave.
"Billet boy", when I heard that on tv I spit diet coke out my nose! :p

HM
12-20-2005, 03:28 PM
I was under the impression you were talking about me.. LOL But I never PM'd you. Just kind of figured it was a given. :D
The only thing I ever knocked off was my optima battery box.. But even then I took something I liked, and (important here) made it better!! So while it was a derrivative, it wasn't just a knock off.. Rather an improvement on what I felt was the best thing going.
RD
Didn't you get threatened about the name plates you were trying to make? Different IP issue, but you were just trying to hookup some people with stuff that probably can't even be bought anymore - and I don't think you were trying do "production" so to say. Shit, I almost called you after Campbell gave me a rectal exam when I ordered a new Campbell emblem.

disco_charger
12-20-2005, 04:28 PM
just a question here. And don't shoot me for it as it's just a question.
What if the shoe was on the other foot. Would that be ok? I know for a fact that some of the billet rock stars around here knocked off others designs and a crap load of you are running them in your boats.
But that's prolly ok because they have a high post count. lmao
haulina29, I too have seen covers on hot rods for a long time. But I've yet to see one that is JUST LIKE the Boat Bling guys. I mean if you are gonna do it at least switch it up a bit.
Kinda like Braksma knocking off the Kuhl river rat pump. He could have put the ports in a different location and made it look like a totaly different pump.
I like the way Dave thinks. He's funny, but he's also right.

dicudmore
12-20-2005, 09:49 PM
Thanks for all the responses and support.
1) We do have US PATENTS (not pending...actually have).
2) We do have an excellent PATENT attorney and he is aware of our situation.
3) We have NOT entered into any agreement with Eddie Marine or any other companies.
4) F&M and Boat Bling debuted their personal line of covers at the LA Boat Show 2005.
5) We designed, tested and began Boat Bling and these covers in the spring of 2004.
6) We have signed rights from all Manufacturers we with work directly to create their logos on our Boat Bling covers.
7) We are disappointed this has happened but honestly, I am not surprised this has occured. We are prepared for whatever we have to do.
Thanks for all of your support. We will continue to do what we do: offer the BEST products with the BEST and ONLY personal service. Every customer has my cell phone and I GUARANTEE you will be completely satisfied...or you get your money back...and I'll let you keep the COVER.
We may be a "little" guy in this huge industry, but I assure you we are not going anywhere. We're already getting ready for the LA Boat Show and the 2006 season. We have a few new products coming up along with a NEW BOAT BLING product you will all recognize.
Happy Holidays!
Patrick
patrick@boatbling.net
Any comments, please feel free to email me :)
Will you have your own booth at the show or be along with one of the boat builders?? :cool:

roln 20s
12-21-2005, 05:13 PM
Will you have your own booth at the show or be along with one of the boat builders?? :cool:
Both...we will have a booth with Boat Bling Covers and the NEWEST product for 2006, plus have some Boat Bling covers on most boat manufacturer's boat at the show. Should be a great showing for Boat Bling :)

dicudmore
12-21-2005, 05:30 PM
Both...we will have a booth with Boat Bling Covers and the NEWEST product for 2006, plus have some Boat Bling covers on most boat manufacturer's boat at the show. Should be a great showing for Boat Bling :)
see ya there :cool:

Ultrafied
12-21-2005, 06:41 PM
Love my BB cover, Patrick! We will stop by the show and see you (for moral support). Hope everything comes OK for you ... :D

shockwavebd
12-21-2005, 08:00 PM
Great post and my thought exactly!!!
I was dissapointed to see Eliminator but saddened to see Shockwave since Barry visits the boards so often and would know the product that Patrick is selling.
We have not bought any of these from eddie and this the frist I have seen this....I know how hard Patrick has worked on this and support him all the way .............We will Have his covers on our boats at the show.

superdave013
12-21-2005, 08:43 PM
We have not bought any of these from eddie and this the frist I have seen this....I know how hard Patrick has worked on this and support him all the way .............We will Have his covers on our boats at the show.
that's some stand up right there. way to go.

Havasu_Dreamin
12-22-2005, 07:33 AM
Trick Marine is selling the same thing that they bought from Eddie Marine.

Havasu_Dreamin
12-22-2005, 07:42 AM
Are they selling as their own or are they simply a reseller?
Reseller. They said they bought it from Eddie Marine when they were asked about it.

Havasu_Dreamin
12-22-2005, 08:30 AM
Nothing wrong with that. Some companies encourage reselling as it pushes their distribution chain, in this case, farther East.
This is true.

Cole Trickle
12-22-2005, 08:49 AM
We have not bought any of these from eddie and this the frist I have seen this....I know how hard Patrick has worked on this and support him all the way .............We will Have his covers on our boats at the show.
Great to hear!! :)
If you read a couple posts below my original I said I appoligize if the said manuf. were not supporting the thievery.(Can't you go after them for using your name without a trademark?)
I will continue to support shockwave and the great boats they build!

Essex502
12-23-2005, 07:04 PM
How about printing up some "F*ck Eddie Marine" T-shirts in time for the L.A. Boat Show? I'd be willing to wear one while I am there. Skank. Thank God nothing from Eddie Marine is on the new boat.

dicudmore
12-23-2005, 08:12 PM
How about printing up some "F*ck Eddie Marine" T-shirts in time for the L.A. Boat Show? I'd be willing to wear one while I am there. Skank. Thank God nothing from Eddie Marine is on the new boat.
I'll take 2 :cool:

bigkatboat
12-23-2005, 08:33 PM
"Super Dave" I think you moved the mounting holes over .100", so I cann't go sue the s#!t out of you! Right? HA HA! But it's the same thing. I'm not Eddies (butt buddy) business partner, but he did work at Nicson Marine way before Rex. If Mike had a problem with "the Eddie deal" then I did not hear/read about it. It's too bad that things out here on the west coast have NEVER BEEN as simple as one of the posts here, that asked for 'all the west coast guys to get along'. I remember way back when I bought out Leonard, and I took control of the company. One of the 'local shops' that was working on boats, now had a (bigshot color) catalog and sold parts (only) mail order. I was told by a good customer that the same (bigshot mail order) company told him THAT I WAS OUT OF BUSINESS! Who "F'ed" whom? I thought that the catalog 'store' was going to put me out of business. I was DEAD WRONG. they brought me more paying customers than I could ever have imagined. The catalog "sales people" sold WRONG, gears, props, rudders, etc... to the 'sucker public'. I made a good living off CORRECTING those mistakes.(for over 20 years) I'm too damed honist. Working with the customers and the parts manufacturers drove me to a better relationship with both. I KNOW that there are MANY GREAT people in this business, here on the west coast and all over, but it's not my job to point out the LOSERS! Sorry to those of you who are just jumping in, it's deep, dirty water. If the patents are good, it's a done deal. "Super" why would I question YOU for making a better part? I too want this 'boat thing' to go forward. Even if I don't make a buck off of it!

bigkatboat
12-23-2005, 08:54 PM
"ESSEX 502" Didn't you get into the "Havasu Marina Boycot" a few months ago, and then go back and use their facilities? Why don't you take your "EMI" T shirt and pull it up over your big mouth? EMI is just like all the other back stabbing west coast boat companies, it's a MONEY THING STUPID! It's not love, of people or boats! By the way, I'll probably be polishing my wheels with your ridiculous T shirts next month. Some good ideas last, some get legal help, some go straight to "detailing the car" duty. If I seem rude, it's because I am old, I have money, I like the truth, and I don't care about being "PC". "I don't care what history you have with others, I only see what you do to me!"

IDGAF
12-23-2005, 09:23 PM
Is BigKatBoat the guy who works at the marina in Havasu? There is always a white Chevy Sub with BIGKTBOT always parked in the employees area. If so, kind of biased, right?

bigkatboat
12-23-2005, 09:55 PM
Biased about what? The truth or BULL S#!t? Do you know what is really going on here? Did "Essex 502" boycot the Marina or not? It started with Eddie Marine, then it goes to who I am. I'm someone who has been IN the boat business for over 36 years. I design boats, I build custom motors. I've built a number of NDBA/IHBA/NJBA high points champions. I do claims investigations for Progressive insurance company, I also do work for the marina. If you see one of my cars parked at the 'service parking' or the 'slip parking' areas then this makes YOU AN EXPERT! Are YOU one of those who would BOYCOT the marina, and then go back to launch your boat??? I've always said that I had a pontoon in the Havasu Marina, (since 1986) is THAT a crime too??

Jetboatguru
12-23-2005, 09:58 PM
George,
deep breath sir. It's the internet. Hope you have a merry Christmas!
Tony

IDGAF
12-23-2005, 10:04 PM
Read the post again. I said If so. That implies I am not sure, but if it were true, it would seem to be a biased opinion but it obviously is not. After you explanation, it obvious you don't work for the marina. And bragging about this and that or what you or don't do does not help your arguments at all. I'll leave the other question about the marina and what they do with respect to testing boats to another thread so as not to detract from this discussion. Merry Christmas.

al cole'holic
12-23-2005, 10:07 PM
http://www-jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~ecc25/pics/Irate.jpg
STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER bigkatboat, YOU'RE GONNA BUST A VESSEL ON CHRISTMAS WEEKEND!!

bigkatboat
12-23-2005, 10:09 PM
I just looked back at your post about airline flights. You even attacked the new mayor. Then you put HIM with the Havasu Marina. You must also know where Hitler, Osama, and Hussein park their boats in the marina! It must be great to be invisable and point your finger at others. Oh, but YOU WERE AT THE BOYCOTTED MARINA TOO!! So you are "not quite as bad as me?"

IDGAF
12-23-2005, 10:17 PM
I just looked back at your post about airline flights. You even attacked the new mayor. Then you put HIM with the Havasu Marina. You must also know where Hitler, Osama, and Hussein park their boats in the marina! It must be great to be invisable and point your finger at others. Oh, but YOU WERE AT THE BOYCOTTED MARINA TOO!! So you are "not quite as bad as me?"
All I said was I heard the new mayor was the attorney for the marina. I do think the mayor seems to be doing some stuff that is opposite of the open government platform he ran on. But agaon, that's another discussion. And no, I'm no better or worse than you, I'm just me and that's all that matters.

bigkatboat
12-23-2005, 10:35 PM
Tony, I'm going out to the spa (overlooking the lake). I'll be "bangin' back" a few 'Captain & Cokes', thinking (but not hard) about all the late nights I spent at the shops (in the valley). PS, bragging would be saying "I know the pointed end is the front" of a boat! HAPPY HAPPY, MERRY MERRY!

bigkatboat
12-23-2005, 10:41 PM
HEY! Simi Valley! It's your fault we had the Rodney King riots! I got tired of driving around the valley with a gun in my car so I moved to havasu. Now I just carry TAFFY. It really scares all the toothless people here!

al cole'holic
12-23-2005, 11:02 PM
HEY! Simi Valley! It's your fault we had the Rodney King riots! I got tired of driving around the valley with a gun in my car so I moved to havasu. Now I just carry TAFFY. It really scares all the toothless people here!
..yea I know, it's our fault we got a fouled up case dropped in our laps..?..who you kidding, being in the boating business for 36 years you kept a gun in your car for other reasons :D

Kilrtoy
12-23-2005, 11:48 PM
. If I seem rude, it's because I am old, I have money, I like the truth, and I don't care about being "PC". "
I like this guy.... :idea:

Essex502
12-24-2005, 02:49 PM
"ESSEX 502" Didn't you get into the "Havasu Marina Boycot" a few months ago, and then go back and use their facilities? Why don't you take your "EMI" T shirt and pull it up over your big mouth? EMI is just like all the other back stabbing west coast boat companies, it's a MONEY THING STUPID! It's not love, of people or boats! By the way, I'll probably be polishing my wheels with your ridiculous T shirts next month. Some good ideas last, some get legal help, some go straight to "detailing the car" duty. If I seem rude, it's because I am old, I have money, I like the truth, and I don't care about being "PC". "I don't care what history you have with others, I only see what you do to me!"
Eat Sh!t. Yes, I was involved in the Havasu Marina protest and it resulted very favorably for ALL boaters in a more consistent and courteous attitude by most of the Marina personnel. I have a RIGHT to use the Marina as does anyone else that boats and I will CONTINUE to exercize that right while maintaining any PROTEST necessary to ensure my right to use it. Get your head out of your ass.
You are old? You sound like a little poor punk.
BTW...I know both Patrick and Tom quite well and will support their effort to bring justice to this situation. As a multiple patent holder myself, I understand the cheap trashy knock-off of their product and the legalities of the situation. If you support the EMI crap then that displays your own lowlife attitudes.

Essex502
12-24-2005, 02:50 PM
Biased about what? The truth or BULL S#!t? Do you know what is really going on here? Did "Essex 502" boycot the Marina or not? It started with Eddie Marine, then it goes to who I am. I'm someone who has been IN the boat business for over 36 years. I design boats, I build custom motors. I've built a number of NDBA/IHBA/NJBA high points champions. I do claims investigations for Progressive insurance company, I also do work for the marina. If you see one of my cars parked at the 'service parking' or the 'slip parking' areas then this makes YOU AN EXPERT! Are YOU one of those who would BOYCOT the marina, and then go back to launch your boat??? I've always said that I had a pontoon in the Havasu Marina, (since 1986) is THAT a crime too??
A$$hole...I never said I would boycott the Marina. Find a post anywhere on this board that implies I said that. Jerk. Get your facts straight before spouting off about "truth".

dicudmore
12-24-2005, 03:23 PM
A$$hole...I never said I would boycott the Marina. Find a post anywhere on this board that implies I said that. Jerk. Get your facts straight before spouting off about "truth".
how do you really feel 502?
See ya in Havi over new years :D

Essex502
12-25-2005, 12:42 PM
how do you really feel 502?
See ya in Havi over new years :D
Definitely call us. There are quite a few peeps coming to town and we should all try to hook up.

bigkatboat
12-26-2005, 11:18 AM
Posts #146 and #147, tell it all. In one he says "I was involved in the marina protest", and in the next he says, "I never said I would boycott the Marina". Those protests made a big difference in the way many of the marina people treat us (boaters)? Could it be possible that "us" (boaters) are treating the marina people better also? The marina store still has a sign that says, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". It's still a private business, so if you or I don't pay our own way, we are out! Protest or not! As far as my being a 'fan' of design/ product stealing, I'M NOT! If the originators of the 'idea' have the proper documents, and legal advisor ( a ton of cash) and a lot of luck, they will prevail. I was not at all trying to brag about what I have done, infact I left out many of the 'more impressive' awards/ records because I didn't want to be "a hero in my own mind". I just wanted you to know that I'm not one of the guys (around here) who has a boat built FOR HIM, and then becomes an expert, after changing his own oil. Most of the products that my company designed and produced have been stolen, knocked off, 'sampled', or what ever PC term you call it, but I didn't get angry, I got even. Some showed 'differences', others paid. Thanks for reading, signed; "the poor little punk"

ROZ
12-26-2005, 11:32 AM
Posts #146 and #147, tell it all. In one he says "I was involved in the marina protest", and in the next he says, "I never said I would boycott the Marina".
It is possible that he agreed with and financially suported the cause but not boycott the marina...

bigkatboat
12-26-2005, 10:22 PM
"Roz" You may be correct. Didn't one of our presidents say "I smoked pot, but I didn't inhale" ? Well, "I was involved in the marina boycott, but I always launch my boat there" I think "Mr. Essex 502" should be proud of his "convienence of solidarity" in that social matter. Mr, 'I say one thing and do something else', are you currently:A protesting, B boycotting, or, C patronizing, Eddie Marine? Or... are you too busy here, losing an arguement with "a little poor punk" like me? I do hope the "legal owners" of the ideas and designs get satisfaction, inspite of what "Mr 502" says.

Essex502
01-02-2006, 06:08 PM
"Roz" You may be correct. Didn't one of our presidents say "I smoked pot, but I didn't inhale" ? Well, "I was involved in the marina boycott, but I always launch my boat there" I think "Mr. Essex 502" should be proud of his "convienence of solidarity" in that social matter. Mr, 'I say one thing and do something else', are you currently:A protesting, B boycotting, or, C patronizing, Eddie Marine? Or... are you too busy here, losing an arguement with "a little poor punk" like me? I do hope the "legal owners" of the ideas and designs get satisfaction, inspite of what "Mr 502" says.
Hey A$$hole...please provide the link that shows post #146 and #147 that is posted by me other than the below quote:
Havasu Marina Boycott (http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21474&highlight=boycott)
#146
Back to the top
Btw...
In post 139 I said: Not launch. Not buy gas. Not buy supplies.
Which was true on 5/20/2003. Since that was more than 2 years ago. I do launch there but don't spend one damn dime for gas or supplies in their store - just as I have said in other threads that are much more recent and relative to the noise restrictions.
BTW... we are still working behind the scenes to remedy the contractual failrure to comply by the LH Marina.

superdave013
01-02-2006, 06:13 PM
srew the marina crap (but I did think that pot smoke thing was pretty funny).
what's up with the covers? any word that can be released?

phebus
01-02-2006, 08:39 PM
does any of this "crap" you put on your boat, make it run faster or better anyways :rolleyes: ???????
No, but it is a matter of being "happier" at any given speed. :D

Ron Burnett
01-03-2006, 07:25 AM
I Was At A Local Boat Dealer In Havasu And Ran Into The Same Problem With Somthing I Spent A Lot Of Time And $ On Only To Find That It Had Been Copied To Down To The Magnetic Closure And Hinge Pin Set Up. It Wasnt Rex It Wasnt Eddie It Was Someone In Direct Comp With Me. I Guess This I A Form Of Flattery In Some Peoples Heads. I Think It Sucks ! I Think We All Know Who It Is.

Big Warlock
01-03-2006, 09:11 AM
it shouldn't be a problem. Suck that it happened. And damn near copied to the letter! Time for the lawyer to get invlovled if it's possible.

bigkatboat
01-03-2006, 10:02 PM
"Two years ago I cared, but now I don't!" What are you trying to say? (without name calling!) You were all for a boycot 2 years ago, but it's not convenient for you now, so it's OK to patronize the marina? $10 or $20 to launch vs $1 or $2 for ice is your big sacrifice? Who are you trying to BS??? I'm not falling for YOUR BOYCOT, 'cause you are not doing one! Are you? (I didn't call you any names! Please try to 'act like' an adult) Please try to work IN FRONT OF THE SCENES, instead of "behind the scenes" as you have stated. Then we can better realize what you are actually doing! The marina is still a private business, and they can refuse service to anyone, even those who chose to "kind of protest on some things, but not everything". Like one of the "not quite clear protesters here". If you liked the protest in 05/20/03 what changed your mind, it was not the treatment of customers, 'cause you were still protesting weren't you? How could you know what had changed if you were 'boycotting the place"? Which side of the fence are you on? Do you know what happens to those who "run on the middle of the fence". One day a foot slips, and the truth hits HOME!

bigkatboat
01-03-2006, 10:10 PM
"Dave" you are correct, the marina,"Mr 502" and myself are not as important as the original topic. The problem lies in the 'patent wording' and how the idea/ finished product is perceived. I don't like to see ideas 'ripped off', but it's not new around here and some of the 'new guys' need to deal with it. Us old guys have learned to "stay cool".

fourspeednup
01-03-2006, 11:54 PM
I Was At A Local Boat Dealer In Havasu And Ran Into The Same Problem With Somthing I Spent A Lot Of Time And $ On Only To Find That It Had Been Copied To Down To The Magnetic Closure And Hinge Pin Set Up. It Wasnt Rex It Wasnt Eddie It Was Someone In Direct Comp With Me. I Guess This I A Form Of Flattery In Some Peoples Heads. I Think It Sucks ! I Think We All Know Who It Is.
That sucks Ron (Ron's Billet correct?)...I have yet to see a more copied product in the marine industry than speaker grills and stereo covers. has anyone ever succeeded in a lawsuit or even a cease and desist(not sure of correct legal term) in a case such as that? :(

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 01:17 AM
I Was At A Local Boat Dealer In Havasu And Ran Into The Same Problem With Somthing I Spent A Lot Of Time And $ On Only To Find That It Had Been Copied To Down To The Magnetic Closure And Hinge Pin Set Up. It Wasnt Rex It Wasnt Eddie It Was Someone In Direct Comp With Me. I Guess This I A Form Of Flattery In Some Peoples Heads. I Think It Sucks ! I Think We All Know Who It Is.
Ron, I looked at that setup (stereo cover). To be quite honest I'm amazed someone would copy it. Plastic hinge pins (for wear and tear rotating?), and magnets to hold it shut?
Well again, let me just say. Imitation wouldn't be a form of flattery with regards to this..
Long story short, you guys make a lot of nice stuff. Especially given the price and the fact that you guys are probably the only company out there making "true billet" speaker covers.. Your head unit cover though, I gotta wonder if a six year old kid designed it with a set of crayons and a design by # workbook or something.
Junk is the word that comes to mind. Detents, and real hinges will end up taking y'all out of the market (on stereo covers atleast) sooner or later, mark my words. Probably won't be me (outta the biz), but after one of the big 2 knock off artists (that'd be Dana or Eddie in case you were wondering) read the posts I'm sure they'll be on it.
RD

Froggystyle
01-04-2006, 08:21 AM
"Dave" you are correct, the marina,"Mr 502" and myself are not as important as the original topic. The problem lies in the 'patent wording' and how the idea/ finished product is perceived. I don't like to see ideas 'ripped off', but it's not new around here and some of the 'new guys' need to deal with it. Us old guys have learned to "stay cool".
Yeah, seems to have worked out really well for all of the old guys so far. Like Talon's bottom, or Eliminators Daytona, or the Spectra hull...
You guys have really led the way on IP protection from the get go with your "be cool" stance.
Let me know how that works out for you... :cool:

bigkatboat
01-04-2006, 11:42 AM
It's worked out OK so far. I don't get too worked up over it anymore. I would rather work out a deal (royalties) or just sell my design outright. You may have a chance in court with a small company violating your patent, but you won't have the CASH to stop someone big. After all the fighting, how much did it really cost? I would rather buy myself a new car, not one for each of my lawyers. "Mr Froggy", you may have 'the answer to the performance boat bottom', and you may have it protected very well, but if it's THAT good, it will be copied. Just enough change, here or there, and it's a different bottom. Your boat looks very nice, but I hope you didn't "patent" the 'L' shaped rear deck. Because it looks just like a direct (mirror image) of the rear deck/ swim platform on a Rinker Flotilla. The Rinker deck goes across the back and up the right (starboard) side, your's goes up the left (port). Is it the same design? Is it the same function? Is it the same basic idea? Does one side or the other make it a "different idea"? I don't know, but maybe Rinker does.

bigkatboat
01-04-2006, 12:06 PM
OH! "Mr Froggy", I almost forgot. Were you refering to the Tallon that is the same as the; Howard, Magic, Conquest, American Offshore? You mean the boat that started as the 26' Chris Cat back in the 70's? Or the Tallon that is the, Spectre that started out as a Skater? "Just a little change here or there". Will you be requiring 'non disclosure' agreements from your Revolution dealers, customers, repair/ service shops, towing companies, salvage yards, backyard rebuilders, and people who see them on the street? You are right! Why didn't all those builders mentioned above, get this all straightened out before you got here? Maybe they don't want to, they might just want to make money building boats. They might just want to stay out of court, maybe they know something we don't know. It could be a 'never ending battle'. Good luck to those who choose to fight!

ViB
01-04-2006, 12:22 PM
Ron, I looked at that setup (stereo cover). To be quite honest I'm amazed someone would copy it. Plastic hinge pins (for wear and tear rotating?), and magnets to hold it shut?
Well again, let me just say. Imitation wouldn't be a form of flattery with regards to this..
Long story short, you guys make a lot of nice stuff. Especially given the price and the fact that you guys are probably the only company out there making "true billet" speaker covers.. Your head unit cover though, I gotta wonder if a six year old kid designed it with a set of crayons and a design by # workbook or something.
Junk is the word that comes to mind. Detents, and real hinges will end up taking y'all out of the market (on stereo covers atleast) sooner or later, mark my words. Probably won't be me (outta the biz), but after one of the big 2 knock off artists (that'd be Dana or Eddie in case you were wondering) read the posts I'm sure they'll be on it.
RD
Dana or Eddie....What if someone started copying their stuff and did it for less for the same quality? would everyone here jump on them?

superdave013
01-04-2006, 12:27 PM
this is starting to get good.
I'll get the popcorn O poppin.
ViB, Lets see your parts. :)

ViB
01-04-2006, 12:32 PM
ohhh, I've already been getting the sarcastic hate emails from the Stumpf's lol...so why not stoke the fire a bit more 'eh
www.ViciousBillet.com
this will do for now...

superdave013
01-04-2006, 12:35 PM
ohhh, I've already been getting the sarcastic hate emails from the Stumpf's lol...so why not stoke the fire a bit more 'eh
www.ViciousBillet.com
this will do for now...
lol
hey, I have a CNC machine too. I like that cover with the mud flap chicks. Hummm, I think I could sell them for 10 bucks less then you are. LMAO just kidding bro. ;) I'm not a big audio guy. What to you have for the gofast guys?

Tom Brown
01-04-2006, 12:42 PM
www.ViciousBillet.com
I can't find the link to download g-code for these pieces. :confused:

Magic34
01-04-2006, 12:46 PM
lol
hey, I have a CNC machine too. I like that cover with the mud flap chicks. Hummm, I think I could sell them for 10 bucks less then you are. LMAO just kidding bro. ;) I'm not a big audio guy. What to you have for the gofast guys?
Hey, I was the first one with the chicks design, and then others did it, but more power to them. I wanted out of the industry. I'll support every speaker cover company out there except 1.

ViB
01-04-2006, 12:50 PM
it's kinda funny, been online here since '02 (different screename), was over at RRL for while too...I've met and partied with a lot of the people here, but when I realized I was going to do some aluminum projects I thought it would be wise to keep my identity low key...It is nice to see that some things never change here :argue:

ViB
01-04-2006, 12:55 PM
I can't find the link to download g-code for these pieces. :confused:
I know, I know...I suck! :rollside:

Essex_Sterling
01-04-2006, 01:11 PM
The marina is still a private business, and they can refuse service to anyone,
Not to hi-jack, but the marina has a lease with the state of AZ to provide a public launch ramp and has no authority to deny launching of watercraft without cause. Cause does not constitue a boat exceeding an arbitrary sound level set by the marina management that is tougher than the state law. But this is all for another thread not this one.

Ron Burnett
01-04-2006, 02:45 PM
1. hinge pins NOT PLASTIC.
2. hinge pins teflon
3. hinge pins metal will rust and leave stains on boat
4. hinge pins stainless goog idea but will mar billet and then you have black stain on boat.
5. teflon pin so when your drunk buddy sits on it it will snap the pin and not damage boat or billet face plate.
6. hinge pin 101 class dismissed.
PS after 2.5 years RONS BILLET has a zero failure record on billet stereo face plates and any other billet products we manufacture.
Ron Burnett

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 03:18 PM
1. hinge pins NOT PLASTIC.
2. hinge pins teflon
3. hinge pins metal will rust and leave stains on boat
4. hinge pins stainless goog idea but will mar billet and then you have black stain on boat.
5. teflon pin so when your drunk buddy sits on it it will snap the pin and not damage boat or billet face plate.
6. hinge pin 101 class dismissed.
PS after 2.5 years RONS BILLET has a zero failure record on billet stereo face plates and any other billet products we manufacture.
Ron Burnett
Ron, I'm not trying to attack your "company" as a whole here.. Again I think you guys are great for making one of the ONLY true "billet" speaker covers.. I just happened to get a real up close and personal look at a few of those stereo cover dealios and that was my opinion on them.
As far as hinge pin class. I think maybe you had better go back to school if you think the only way to have any kind of hinge on two billet peaces, is to have an entire rotating assembly dependant upon an 1/8th inch plastic pin.
As far as the zero failure rate.. Two of them I looked at were sent to me by different boat mfg's, and both were broken. Their complaints were that the units opened when crossing wakes, and if left to flop up and down in rough water the facia would end up on the floor.. Not sure how many times it has happened, but I can tell you that I personally know of those 2 failures.
When your using magnets to hold things shut, and tiny plastic pins in milled slots to keep em together.. Probably ought not to be touting the engineering skills, and taking people to "school."
Again, no problems with you or the company Ron. I think your stuff is great, but the stereo could use a little redesign.
RD

riverracerx
01-04-2006, 03:20 PM
Vin Diesel doesn't even need a stereo face plate. If anyone even looks at Vin Diesel's stereo they collapse and die.
In fact Vin Diesel doesn't even use a stereo. He looks up at the sky, opens his mouth and XM plays perfectly from his vocal chords. Vin Diesel won 27 Grammy's last year by doing this on stage.
Vin Diesel doesn't even need a boat.......

Dave C
01-04-2006, 03:23 PM
boy you billet guys sure are cranky....... ;)
is crankyness a by product of working with metal all day? :)
P.S. RD SUX

mbrown2
01-04-2006, 03:24 PM
Vin Diesel doesn't even need a stereo face plate. If anyone even looks at Vin Diesel's stereo they collapse and die.
In fact Vin Diesel doesn't even use a stereo. He looks up at the sky, opens his mouth and XM plays perfectly from his vocal chords. Vin Diesel won 27 Grammy's last year by doing this on stage.
Vin Diesel doesn't even need a boat.......
WTF????:)

mbrown2
01-04-2006, 03:28 PM
boy you billet guys sure are cranky....... ;)
I thought the same thing.....sure are a lot of perfectionist in here.....They all look the same to me.....:)
I am also suprised that Vicious Billet has Dave's logo on his speaker covers right on his website? Wonder if Hemmingson ok'd that.

Dave C
01-04-2006, 03:38 PM
I think we shoud have a steel cage match.... If one billet-guy calls another billet-guy a punk then they should have to have it out in the steel cage......
thunderdome ....mthafackas...

ViB
01-04-2006, 03:49 PM
I thought the same thing.....sure are a lot of perfectionist in here.....They all look the same to me.....:)
I am also suprised that Vicious Billet has Dave's logo on his speaker covers right on his website? Wonder if Hemmingson ok'd that.
used to have a DCB...and yes Dave ok'd it. I don't feel cranky at all :rollside:

riverracerx
01-04-2006, 03:50 PM
WTF????
http://www.4q.cc/vin/

Magic34
01-04-2006, 03:51 PM
1. hinge pins NOT PLASTIC.
2. hinge pins teflon
3. hinge pins metal will rust and leave stains on boat
4. hinge pins stainless goog idea but will mar billet and then you have black stain on boat.
5. teflon pin so when your drunk buddy sits on it it will snap the pin and not damage boat or billet face plate.
6. hinge pin 101 class dismissed.
PS after 2.5 years RONS BILLET has a zero failure record on billet stereo face plates and any other billet products we manufacture.
Ron Burnett
I personally like your design. I have seen them broken in boats, but that "teflon" hinge can be replaced by taking out the entire deck and changing them out.
I don't think however that you should be running a class here. What are you running for machines and can you personally program a part from start to finish? I think RiverDave is the official ***boat professor.
Once again, I actaully like the look of the covers.

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 03:51 PM
I'm not cranky at all. Just figured that now that I'm officially outta the biz, and I don't owe anyone anything, I would go back to my old "call it as I see it" mentallity..
RD

mbrown2
01-04-2006, 03:52 PM
http://www.4q.cc/vin/
Funny. :)

mbrown2
01-04-2006, 03:53 PM
used to have a DCB...and yes Dave ok'd it. I don't feel cranky at all :rollside:
Good to hear.....btw I do like the DCB Speaker grill.

ViB
01-04-2006, 03:56 PM
thank you, Trick Marine and Livorsi will be distributing the covers for the marine industry. Hopefully by year end you will see most of the major manufacturers logos available; with their permission of course.

ViB
01-04-2006, 03:57 PM
:idea: then I'm going to make 496HO engine covers....j/k

Magic34
01-04-2006, 03:57 PM
I'm not cranky at all. Just figured that now that I'm officially outta the biz, and I don't owe anyone anything, I would go back to my old "call it as I see it" mentallity..
RD
By the way.... Hope all is well with you!

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 03:58 PM
I personally like your design. I have seen them broken in boats, but that "teflon" hinge can be replaced by taking out the entire deck and changing them out.
I don't think however that you should be running a class here. What are you running for machines and can you personally program a part from start to finish? I think RiverDave is the official ***boat professor.
Once again, I actaully like the look of the covers.
LOL... I appreciate the support, and while I could probably "fumble" my way through a program I'm more of a manual machinist. There's guys on here like wshuwrhr (sp?) that are far more edumucated then me..
As far as changing the pins out. Why would you need too? Unless it broke.
RD

Magic34
01-04-2006, 03:59 PM
As far as changing the pins out. Why would you need too? Unless it broke.
RD
:idea:

riverracerx
01-04-2006, 04:16 PM
If your stereo was made out of billet..would you need a faceplate?

mbrown2
01-04-2006, 04:16 PM
:idea: then I'm going to make 496HO engine covers....j/k
LMAO... :)

Biglue
01-04-2006, 04:24 PM
LOL... I appreciate the support, and while I could probably "fumble" my way through a program I'm more of a manual machinist. There's guys on here like wshuwrhr (sp?) that are far more edumucated then me..
As far as changing the pins out. Why would you need too? Unless it broke.
RD
Hey RD, I can program.......wanna make some 496 covers???? :crossx: :crossx: :crossx:

HM
01-04-2006, 04:27 PM
I'm not cranky at all. Just figured that now that I'm officially outta the biz, and I don't owe anyone anything, I would go back to my old "call it as I see it" mentallity..
RD
You have been trying that for a while, and your come back still sucks. You need to bite someone's ear off or something......How about Tom Browns? I'd pay to see that!!!

Dave C
01-04-2006, 04:36 PM
Ya RD's "call it as he see's it" mentality is a shadow of its former self....
You have been trying that for a while, and your come back still sucks. You need to bite someone's ear off or something......How about Tom Browns? I'd pay to see that!!!

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 04:43 PM
Hey RD, I can program.......wanna make some 496 covers???? :crossx: :crossx: :crossx:
:D nah... I think Tom and Patrick are the guys to see with regards to that stuff.
RD

Ziggy
01-04-2006, 04:56 PM
As far as changing the pins out. Why would you need too? Unless it broke.
RD
Heck, why replace brake pads on cars/trucks either......?
I kinda like the idea that the cover is servicable.........
Not that it matter much, I have a plastic cover made by wtf knows...LOL :)

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 05:00 PM
Heck, why replace brake pads on cars/trucks either......?
I kinda like the idea that the cover is servicable.........
Not that it matter much, I have a plastic cover made by wtf knows...LOL :)
When's the last time you had to "service" it.. LOL
RD :D

Biglue
01-04-2006, 05:00 PM
:D nah... I think Tom and Patrick are the guys to see with regards to that stuff.
RD
But we'll make it OUR OWN designs. :D

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 05:02 PM
But we'll make it OUR OWN designs. :D
I'm outta the billet biz (for the marine industry).. If any luck goes my way though you'll see a couple of my products live on under a new name. :)
RD

Biglue
01-04-2006, 05:03 PM
I'm outta the billet biz (for the marine industry).. If any luck goes my way though you'll see a couple of my products live on under a new name. :)
RD
Gotcha

Ziggy
01-04-2006, 05:05 PM
When's the last time you had to "service" it.. LOL
RD :D
True........
How'd the mini-Bimmer go over? Nephew dig it??

Froggystyle
01-04-2006, 05:16 PM
I think we shoud have a steel cage match.... If one billet-guy calls another billet-guy a punk then they should have to have it out in the steel cage......
thunderdome ....mthafackas...
Actually, the cage would have to be aluminum, with designs milled into it.
Then, let the fighting begin!

superdave013
01-04-2006, 05:27 PM
Ron, I'm not trying to attack your "company" as a whole here.. Again I think you guys are great for making one of the ONLY true "billet" speaker covers.. RD
help me out here Dave as I am having trouble reading between the lines. Are you saying the other guys do not start out with a chunk of 6061 and end up with a cover? What are they doing, starting with a casting? Not that that's a bad thing I guess. You just keep saying that and it's perked my intrest is all.

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 05:43 PM
Actually, the cage would have to be aluminum, with designs milled into it.
Then, let the fighting begin!
I'm in,
Where do I sign my 150lb ass up? Never underestimate the fight in the dog.
Brian

superdave013
01-04-2006, 05:44 PM
I'm in,
Where do I sign my 150lb ass up? Never underestimate the fight in the dog.
Brian
10 bucks on who ever skinny is fighting. lol

Biglue
01-04-2006, 05:48 PM
help me out here Dave as I am having trouble reading between the lines. Are you saying the other guys do not start out with a chunk of 6061 and end up with a cover? What are they doing, starting with a casting? Not that that's a bad thing I guess. You just keep saying that and it's perked my intrest is all.
Do they sell enough of these to justify the casting tooling costs??

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 05:48 PM
help me out here Dave as I am having trouble reading between the lines. Are you saying the other guys do not start out with a chunk of 6061 and end up with a cover? What are they doing, starting with a casting? Not that that's a bad thing I guess. You just keep saying that and it's perked my intrest is all.
I would jump in and say, "probably."
A $3-5 casting versus a $15-20 peice of material.
Brian

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 05:49 PM
Do they sell enough of these to justify the casting tooling costs??
Tooling cost for a part like that isn't that bad.
Brian

Biglue
01-04-2006, 05:51 PM
Tooling cost for a part like that isn't that bad.
Brian
Are talking 2-3000 or are we talking 15-20,000? Just wondering about the volume they sell.

Dave C
01-04-2006, 06:04 PM
skinny mofos throwing down in a trick billet aluminum CNC'd designed cage........ let the games begin :D
damn this is starting to sound like PPV material. :)

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 06:14 PM
Are talking 2-3000 or are we talking 15-20,000? Just wondering about the volume they sell.
I'm talking 1-300-500-1000.
At five times the price for a piece of raw material, just to machine it down to what you end up with a casting, it doesn't take that many parts to justify it. At least in my opinion.
But a casting isn't as nice of quality as billet though.
Polishing, chroming- niether is as easy or looks as good.
Powercoating wouldn't matter much, I don't think.
But like anything else, you get what you pay for.
Brian

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 06:33 PM
True........
How'd the mini-Bimmer go over? Nephew dig it??
It's all he talks about.. :) Thanks again for that!!
RD

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 06:37 PM
help me out here Dave as I am having trouble reading between the lines. Are you saying the other guys do not start out with a chunk of 6061 and end up with a cover? What are they doing, starting with a casting? Not that that's a bad thing I guess. You just keep saying that and it's perked my intrest is all.
That's exactly what I'm saying. Almost everyone elses is stamped though, not cast. Not that being stamped is a bad thing.. To be quite honest if I was going to make a run at the speaker grill market that's the only way I'd go is short run stampings. Only difference being I wouldn't sell them as "billet" covers when there not. I respect RCD quite a bit for that, they actually sell a true "billet" cover where as most others do not.
On a side note though, I thought the Billet Boyz covers where by far and away the best ones going. Nice hidden mounting screws, clean install, with a screen behind the pattern to still protect the speaker etc.. etc..
RD

Biglue
01-04-2006, 06:40 PM
I'm talking 1-300-500-1000.
At five times the price for a piece of raw material, just to machine it down to what you end up with a casting, it doesn't take that many parts to justify it. At least in my opinion.
But a casting isn't as nice of quality as billet though.
Polishing, chroming- niether is as easy or looks as good.
Powercoating wouldn't matter much, I don't think.
But like anything else, you get what you pay for.
Brian
Seems too low a price. BUt then again I haven't built many molds.

Biglue
01-04-2006, 06:41 PM
They tried that BS in the golf industry, Cleveland called it "Form Forged". It was initially cast at about 110% oversize and then forged to it's final shape. Didn't go over to well when the purists found out their "forgings" weren't really forged.
Some people call pressure molded castings forged also. It's getting to be a somewhat loose term.

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 06:47 PM
They tried that BS in the golf industry, Cleveland called it "Form Forged". It was initially cast at about 110% oversize and then forged to it's final shape. Didn't go over to well when the purists found out their "forgings" weren't really forged.
You would be surprised as to how many "billet" parts bought that are really cast and not billet at all.
Kind of a "play" on words.
Brian

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 06:50 PM
Seems too low a price. BUt then again I haven't built many molds.
Well not to get into this too heavy, becuase it's not actually the way anyones doing it.. But there's some exceptionally cheap ways to get into investment casting.. For example..
You can take an original "pattern" (doesn't even have to be made out of metal) and cast an RTV (rubber tool) around it. Let it setup over night, the next day cut it in half (some little odds and ends I'm leaving out, but overall this is the jest of it). Pull your original pattern out, and now you have a cavity. Pour in Wax, send it to a foundry, and for something about the size of a speaker cover (6.5) it really shouldn't cost more then 15 - 18 bucks) per unit to cast..
Now on the flip side, if you go with the stamping route, you invest a little more up front and you get your stamping prices down to about the same price (actually in runs of over a 100 I'd bet they'd go down to the neighborhood of 10 bucks per blank) with alot less hassle, and alot nicer quality (from the stand point of smooth surfaces etc.. for a speaker cover). No second operation machining required except to maybe drill some holes, and whatever pattern you want in the front of it.
RD

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 06:53 PM
10 bucks on who ever skinny is fighting. lol
That ain't right. haha
Hey I got "heart"
Brian

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 06:55 PM
Now on the flip side, if you go with the stamping route, you invest a little more up front and you get your stamping prices down to about the same price (actually in runs of over a 100 I'd bet they'd go down to the neighborhood of 10 bucks per blank) with alot less hassle, and alot nicer quality (from the stand point of smooth surfaces etc.. for a speaker cover). No second operation machining required except to maybe drill some holes, and whatever pattern you want in the front of it.
RD
Stamping
SSSSTTTRRRREEECCCCHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
Brian

Biglue
01-04-2006, 06:57 PM
Well not to get into this too heavy, becuase it's not actually the way anyones doing it.. But there's some exceptionally cheap ways to get into investment casting.. For example..
You can take an original "pattern" (doesn't even have to be made out of metal) and cast an RTV (rubber tool) around it. Let it setup over night, the next day cut it in half (some little odds and ends I'm leaving out, but overall this is the jest of it). Pull your original pattern out, and now you have a cavity. Pour in Wax, send it to a foundry, and for something about the size of a speaker cover (6.5) it really shouldn't cost more then 15 - 18 bucks) per unit to cast..
Now on the flip side, if you go with the stamping route, you invest a little more up front and you get your stamping prices down to about the same price (actually in runs of over a 100 I'd bet they'd go down to the neighborhood of 10 bucks per blank) with alot less hassle, and alot nicer quality (from the stand point of smooth surfaces etc.. for a speaker cover). No second operation machining required except to maybe drill some holes, and whatever pattern you want in the front of it.
RD
Gotcha. The only castings I have worked with are pretty detailed so they are pricey for tooling.

Biglue
01-04-2006, 06:57 PM
Golf customers that buy forged want forged, not pressure molded cast. :D They want to play the same clubs as the pros. They want to look good while they suck.
LOL I hear you.

RiverDave
01-04-2006, 07:02 PM
You know in retrospect, I came off pretty harsh with regards to Ron's dealio..
I guess I could've worded that alot better. For that I'm sorry Ron, and I do appologize.
On the upside of it though, atleast your (I hope you are anyways) rethinking your hinge design, and magnet dealios, and I will in some small way have played a part in the next generation of better stereo covers. :)
RD <--- glass is 1/2 full kinda guy.

Froggystyle
01-04-2006, 07:33 PM
skinny mofos throwing down in a trick billet aluminum CNC'd designed cage........ let the games begin :D
damn this is starting to sound like PPV material. :)
You said skinny... but RD is one of them.
If this happens, I will have dig a little deeper into my repertoire and show Brian some stuff to ensure that "Team Trident" comes out on top of this cage fight... ;)
Froggy"GotyourbackBrian"style

superdave013
01-04-2006, 07:33 PM
Golf customers that buy forged want forged, not pressure molded cast. :D They want to play the same clubs as the pros. They want to look good while they suck.
ad by god I do not blame them one bit. I have a real nice downhill race bike just like some pros race. That way I look as good as they do when I'm going slow. :p

superdave013
01-04-2006, 07:36 PM
You said skinny... but RD is one of them.
If this happens, I will have dig a little deeper into my repertoire and show Brian some stuff to ensure that "Team Trident" comes out on top of this cage fight... ;)
Froggy"GotyourbackBrian"style
and us fat guys stick together too.
River Dave, don't let skinny kick ya in the junk because I have ten bucks riding on ya.
:D

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 08:12 PM
and us fat guys stick together too.
River Dave, don't let skinny kick ya in the junk because I have ten bucks riding on ya.
:D
Im DYIN over here..
:eek: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:
Brian

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 08:14 PM
You said skinny... but RD is one of them.
If this happens, I will have dig a little deeper into my repertoire and show Brian some stuff to ensure that "Team Trident" comes out on top of this cage fight... ;)
Froggy"GotyourbackBrian"style
Well alright...finally someone lookin after the little guy....
Sometimes you gotta watch out for the shorties.
Brian

Racer277
01-04-2006, 08:47 PM
When I approached a couple friends about these products (2 years ago...), this is the method we immediately established.
We couldn't understand why anyone would carve these out of billet then powdercoat (or anodize) them...
We estimated our cost to be under $15 per cover. However, I was quickly taught that still translates to $60-75 or more to the end user....
That's exactly what I'm saying. Almost everyone elses is stamped though, not cast. Not that being stamped is a bad thing.. To be quite honest if I was going to make a run at the speaker grill market that's the only way I'd go is short run stampings. Only difference being I wouldn't sell them as "billet" covers when there not. I respect RCD quite a bit for that, they actually sell a true "billet" cover where as most others do not.
On a side note though, I thought the Billet Boyz covers where by far and away the best ones going. Nice hidden mounting screws, clean install, with a screen behind the pattern to still protect the speaker etc.. etc..
RD

Dave C
01-04-2006, 08:55 PM
BTW the business man in me is starting to think of who you can license the name to on the side of the cage?
You said skinny... but RD is one of them.
If this happens, I will have dig a little deeper into my repertoire and show Brian some stuff to ensure that "Team Trident" comes out on top of this cage fight... ;)
Froggy"GotyourbackBrian"style

Magic34
01-04-2006, 09:34 PM
Well not to get into this too heavy, becuase it's not actually the way anyones doing it.. But there's some exceptionally cheap ways to get into investment casting.. For example..
You can take an original "pattern" (doesn't even have to be made out of metal) and cast an RTV (rubber tool) around it. Let it setup over night, the next day cut it in half (some little odds and ends I'm leaving out, but overall this is the jest of it). Pull your original pattern out, and now you have a cavity. Pour in Wax, send it to a foundry, and for something about the size of a speaker cover (6.5) it really shouldn't cost more then 15 - 18 bucks) per unit to cast..
Now on the flip side, if you go with the stamping route, you invest a little more up front and you get your stamping prices down to about the same price (actually in runs of over a 100 I'd bet they'd go down to the neighborhood of 10 bucks per blank) with alot less hassle, and alot nicer quality (from the stand point of smooth surfaces etc.. for a speaker cover). No second operation machining required except to maybe drill some holes, and whatever pattern you want in the front of it.
RD
I'm out... It all sucks!! :crossx:

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 09:36 PM
When I approached a couple friends about these products (2 years ago...), this is the method we immediately established.
We couldn't understand why anyone would carve these out of billet then powdercoat (or anodize) them...
We estimated our cost to be under $15 per cover. However, I was quickly taught that still translates to $60-75 or more to the end user....
Under $15 bucks?
I don't know what else to say.
Brian

Racer277
01-04-2006, 09:38 PM
Again that is for stampings.
You would know the difference and be unhappy, but you prolly wouldn't powdercoat in the first place....

Magic34
01-04-2006, 10:29 PM
Again that is for stampings.
You would know the difference and be unhappy, but you prolly wouldn't powdercoat in the first place....
Include your tooling charge in price per cover and it you are stamping you have no tabs, only rings, and there is another tool. Then you have to pay for polishing and sometimes the material takes a little more work and that costs more too. That $15 figure is a little low.
Hell, we owned the machines free and clear as well and had zero rent, and there wasn't enought $$ in it for us to want to continue.

wsuwrhr
01-04-2006, 10:38 PM
Include your tooling charge in price per cover and it you are stamping you have no tabs, only rings, and there is another tool. Then you have to pay for polishing and sometimes the material takes a little more work and that costs more too. That $15 figure is a little low.
Hell, we owned the machines free and clear as well and had zero rent, and there wasn't enought $$ in it for us to want to continue.
yea what he said
$15. and I'm thinkin you would starve. I'm just trying to be honest. I make my living standing in front of a machine.
Brian

Magic34
01-04-2006, 10:47 PM
yea what he said
$15. and I'm thinkin you would starve. I'm just trying to be honest. I make my living standing in front of a machine.
Brian
They'll only hear what they want. Personally, I'd rather work at Burger King.
There is absolutely no way that you could have a dealer price of $40-$45/pair and stay in business, regardless of how they make the covers. That includes getting them in China as well. Maybe I am understanding the conversation wrong, but I feel this is what the debate is about with regards to low price speaker covers.
If those guys can produce them and dealer them at $45/pair, sign me up to be a dealer.

ViB
01-05-2006, 07:28 AM
it costs us $100 per pair, we sell 'em for $99.95...just like losing money I guess. :p

Ron Burnett
01-05-2006, 07:31 AM
RD thanks for the compliments on our billet products and the advice to improve it. i am always looking for ways to improve and your right i have never touched a cnc machine up until 2.5 yrs ago nor do i claim to be a machinest. i thought we had a great design and i think alot of people agree.come by booth 218 @ the boat show and i will buy you a beer. i dont think the billet cage is the place for two guys who have great ideas to make a couple of bucks on the side. again thanks for be a gentlman and having the respect to say sorry to someone that you dont even know.
thanks Ron Burnett
RONS BILLET

Krumbsnatcher
01-05-2006, 08:26 AM
That is why I entered the speaker cover market and and made an exit just as quickly.
LMAO!!! It is so true unless you make a product specifically for their product and molds.
As for the Cowlings, we made 4 billet 496HO covers when they first came out, but for friends of ours. Still have the programs if anyone is interested, way to costly to produce. FM Machinery was the first to produce the cowlings and then BB followed with a Rolex version.
This business is just like any other business, people come and go. Eddie supply's all the manufactures with their hardware it was destined to happen. I am sure they ran the idea of billet covers, but with the logistics of speakers mfg's and other related issues. It made a better business sense to run bezels than speaker covers.
Personally, if i was a roller who was going to shell out $$$ big cash for an engine cover i would want the rolex version as compared to the Sieko.
Just .02

Racer277
01-05-2006, 08:52 AM
It was demonstrated to me (before we produced any), that what you are saying is correct.
Even with a cost to us of $15, there was no way to sell for less than $75 and $100 is more likely. And it was a *****'s market at that (no offense, mines the same...).
China was considered, but the costs aren't in the manufacturing, and the production levels didn't justify...
You've found exactly what was described to me.
They'll only hear what they want. Personally, I'd rather work at Burger King.
There is absolutely no way that you could have a dealer price of $40-$45/pair and stay in business, regardless of how they make the covers. That includes getting them in China as well. Maybe I am understanding the conversation wrong, but I feel this is what the debate is about with regards to low price speaker covers.
If those guys can produce them and dealer them at $45/pair, sign me up to be a dealer.

wsuwrhr
01-05-2006, 03:38 PM
This thread was getting fun for awhile.
I was still looking for someone to enter the cage.
:argue: :argue:
Brian

bigkatboat
01-06-2006, 09:21 PM
Brian, maybe all of the people here who actually do make the boat parts, speaking to one another can get across to the people who purchase these parts the actual costs involved. It's not just 2lbs of aluminum, machined for 18 minutes and it goes out the door! I would never ask you to do your best work and then try to pay you $1.50 per hour, some people may think that way, but it's just stupid. Those same people expect to be paid well for their own work, so why not you? No matter what it costs you to bring out a new product, you set the price and quality levels of that product. If someone else brings out a similar product at a similar price, it's called competition. It's up to the market to choose which product has the quality and price they desire. Patents or not, you could loose your entire business fighting in court, so how will you survive? Can you drop your price? quality? both? and still make money? Or will you do the best work with the best materials and hope the market will accept your product? Advertizing, and how the public accepts you is the MOST important sales tool in performance boating,(ask Hot Boat) so just create an image and 'they' will purchase your product at any quality/ price level. So, "don't worry, be happy"

rrrr
01-06-2006, 09:29 PM
You may have a chance in court with a small company violating your patent, but you won't have the CASH to stop someone big. After all the fighting, how much did it really cost? I would rather buy myself a new car, not one for each of my lawyers.
Well, there's a class guy. :rolleyes:

wsuwrhr
01-06-2006, 11:02 PM
Brian, maybe all of the people here who actually do make the boat parts, speaking to one another can get across to the people who purchase these parts the actual costs involved. It's not just 2lbs of aluminum, machined for 18 minutes and it goes out the door! I would never ask you to do your best work and then try to pay you $1.50 per hour, some people may think that way, but it's just stupid. Those same people expect to be paid well for their own work, so why not you? No matter what it costs you to bring out a new product, you set the price and quality levels of that product. If someone else brings out a similar product at a similar price, it's called competition. It's up to the market to choose which product has the quality and price they desire. Patents or not, you could loose your entire business fighting in court, so how will you survive? Can you drop your price? quality? both? and still make money? Or will you do the best work with the best materials and hope the market will accept your product? Advertizing, and how the public accepts you is the MOST important sales tool in performance boating,(ask Hot Boat) so just create an image and 'they' will purchase your product at any quality/ price level. So, "don't worry, be happy"
I agree with you completely.
Please don't take my "get in the cage" post seriously. I was just messing around.
Brian

Froggystyle
01-19-2006, 04:38 PM
..so just create an image and 'they' will purchase your product at any quality/ price level. So, "don't worry, be happy"
Yeah... you see how well that worked out for Eliminator. :rolleyes:
This is not even close to reality. You don't create an image, it is created for you. You create a product and you try to impart upon the buying public how important certain aspects of it such as quality, price, availability, service, safety et al were to you during the conception and execution. The response created is your image.
Eliminator took a beating in the last several years because they started coasting on their name. Your above stated theory led to gypsy riggers, poor quality control, rare innovation and dated appearances. After dropping in both image and quality as a result, Eliminator realized that they had to do something and so they did. They hired a real tooler, a real rigger (trained by DCB BTW...) a great gelcoat artist and some composite engineers to try to get back on track. As of today, they are coming back in a big way.
If anyone has created anything that can be protected through copyright or patent, I suggest they do and have sent more people than I care to count to my lawyers for referrals. You say you would rather buy a new car than one for your lawyers... great. Clearly you have never created anything protectable. You don't need an award winning legal team to win... you just need the balls to protect what is yours and the foresight to do so ahead of time.
And lastly... nobody in this business is big. Nobody. The biggest business we are talking about would get steamrolled by a real big business. These are all small businesses running near empty. Who is going to have such deep pockets that they can afford to hit the courts full time defending themselves ineffectively against obvious patent or copyright issues? Rex? Eddie? Dana? I think not. They will cease and desist immediately. I have already been in an extremely abbreviated legal battle over my protected "Sharpening the Cutting Edge" slogan by a semi large company, Sidi motorcycle boots. They were immediately hit with a C&D and folded in seconds. Two days later I had legal letters in response on my desk, photographic evidence of more than $10,000 worth of print ads destroyed and letters of apology from the Italian owners for the illegal actions of their American distributors who saw my slogan on a truck.
I would be scared of going up against Microsoft or Coke... but they are smart enough not to rip us off...