Cost To Save Salton Sea Doubles Initial Estimate

[RitcheyRch]

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_032132443.html
The cost of saving the Salton Sea could be billions more than initially projected in two separate proposed plans, it was reported Thursday.
Proposals by the Salton Sea Authority and the Imperial Group, which have competing plans for restoring the sea, were reviewed by the federal Bureau of Reclamation recently, The Desert Sun reported. The bureau estimates the projected cost of restoration plans following stringent and expensive federal standards for dams and dykes.
The Sea Authority's plan, which calls for a mid-sea dam to create two lakes, would cost $9.2 billion under the bureau's standards, nearly double the initial $5 billion estimate.
The Imperial Group's proposal, which calls for creating a series of concentric lakes with plastic barriers, would cost $14 billion, including a proposed design change, instead of the projected $2.3 billion, the federal authority projected, according to the newspaper.
Both groups are coalitions of government representatives, environmental groups, businesses and local residents hoping to restore the saline lake.
The saltwater lake was once one of Southern California's most popular boating and fishing areas, but is now in danger of drying into a polluted dust bowl and destroying a wetland retreat for some 400 species of birds.
To save the desert lake, advocates and others agree it will have to become much smaller at most half as big as its current size of 233,000 acres.
Bureau of Reclamation Salton Sea program manager Michael Walker told the newspaper the preliminary findings were shared Wednesday with bureau and U.S. Department of Interior officials in Washington D.C.
All of the figures and other data are subject to change, he said. An act of Congress tasked the bureau with considering Salton Sea alternatives. The California Legislature created a similar project to consider Salton Sea-saving measures.

[Havasu1986]

If the Salton sea was not salty...I'm not sure Havi would be as popular.:)

[Phat Matt]

If the Salton sea was not salty...I'm not sure Havi would be as popular.:)
No doubt!

[dumbandyoung]

If the Salton sea was not salty...I'm not sure Havi would be as popular.:)
yep

[Mrs. Bordsmnj]

ITs really too bad that the Salton Sea is so yucky. How cool would that be if it was fresh water. Its HUGE!!!! We could boat during the morning and then ride Ocotillo or Glamis in the afternoon!
:)

[CA Stu]

Why bother saving it?
It's not like it was a natural lake, it was formed by an accidental flood between 1905 and 1907 thanks to poorly built irrigation controls south of Yuma.
All these armchair "environmentalists" weeping about the birds and the Salton sea are frickin' morons. What, there weren't any birds before 1907? :confused:
Thanks
CA Stu

[dumbandyoung]

Why bother saving it?
It's not like it was a natural lake, it was formed by an accidental flood between 1905 and 1907 thanks to poorly built irrigation controls south of Yuma.
All these armchair "environmentalists" weeping about the birds and the Salton sea are frickin' morons. What, there weren't any birds before 1907? :confused:
Thanks
CA Stu
Amen Brotha

[Boatcop]

Why bother saving it?
It's not like it was a natural lake, it was formed by an accidental flood between 1905 and 1907 thanks to poorly built irrigation controls south of Yuma.
All these armchair "environmentalists" weeping about the birds and the Salton sea are frickin' morons. What, there weren't any birds before 1907? :confused:
Thanks
CA Stu
DING!
We have a winner.

[roostwear]

Why bother saving it?
It's not like it was a natural lake, it was formed by an accidental flood between 1905 and 1907 thanks to poorly built irrigation controls south of Yuma.
All these armchair "environmentalists" weeping about the birds and the Salton sea are frickin' morons. What, there weren't any birds before 1907? :confused:
Thanks
CA Stu
The elimination of wetlands have made SS a "new' migratory location. SS will never be fresh water because of the makeup of the area, but it'd be nice to have all the ballers got to SS and leave the river to us little guys.:D

[Phat Matt]

So you are saying that since birds have only been using it for 10 to 40 generations (depending on their lifespans) they wouldn't know the difference? It is part of the Pacific Flyway and you would probably be amazed on the amount of birds who use the area for their migration.
While we are at it let's restore the Colorado river to it's natural habitat. Bye bye Powell, Mead, Mohave, and Havasu.
Isn't that like saying the same thing? Food for thought.

[SCR INC]

This lake a one time was a blast, We had a vacation house on North Shore 1 block from the beach and we would boat and ride dirt bikes. It was so laid back.. Its hard to believe it once was a usable lake..

[dumbandyoung]

:idea:
now that I think about it....Salton Sea has...
-No sandbar
-No Channel
-No bridge
-No cool cliffs to jump off
-No casinos
......Fock that shitty place even if it wasn't salty. :)

[Boatcop]

So you are saying that since birds have only been using it for 10 to 40 generations (depending on their lifespans) they wouldn't know the difference? It is part of the Pacific Flyway and you would probably be amazed on the amount of birds who use the area for their migration.
While we are at it let's restore the Colorado river to it's natural habitat. Bye bye Powell, Mead, Mohave, and Havasu.
Isn't that like saying the same thing? Food for thought.
All I'm saying is that the environmentalist whackos are hypocrites. If you remember, if they had their way they would demolish all the dams and drain the lakes to bring the Colorado back to its original form.
But they also demand that a man made blunder of a lake, that's only 100 years old, has to have billions of taxpayer dollars sunk into it to make it habitable to sea gulls and pelicans who get blown inland from Pacific storms.
Why aren't they calling to restore THAT to it's original desert form?

[Phat Matt]

This lake a one time was a blast, We had a vacation house on North Shore 1 block from the beach and we would boat and ride dirt bikes. It was so laid back.. Its hard to believe it once was a usable lake..
I grew up fishing and skiing there. You couldn't beat the fishing! I still hunt there.
Think about the money maker it would be if it were cleaned up though. Who cares if it's salty, so is the ocean and people use it.

[Phat Matt]

All I'm saying is that the environmentalist whackos are hypocrites. If you remember, if they had their way they would demolish all the dams and drain the lakes to bring the Colorado back to its original form.
But they also demand that a man made blunder of a lake, that's only 100 years old, has to have billions of taxpayer dollars sunk into it to make it habitable to sea gulls and pelicans who get blown inland from Pacific storms.
Why aren't they calling to restore THAT to it's original desert form?
Maybe we should take a day off in Iraq and we can fund the Sea. Don't you think that would be prime real estate around there if it were nice? It would be money!

[Phat Matt]

Oh, it also naturally filled up before that last time also.
http://www.saltonsea.ca.gov/histchron.htm#period1

[Ziggy]

Seems rather simple, in theory, to circulate water from the gulf in and out of the SS.
I knew several old timers that invested heavily into properties down there years ago when plans were to turn it into a recreation mecca.........:rolleyes:

[79Challenger]

Why bother saving it?
It's not like it was a natural lake, it was formed by an accidental flood between 1905 and 1907 thanks to poorly built irrigation controls south of Yuma.
All these armchair "environmentalists" weeping about the birds and the Salton sea are frickin' morons. What, there weren't any birds before 1907? :confused:
Thanks
CA Stu
Say goodby to a fair amount of waterfowl hunting in the surrounding areas, maybe states

[Mandelon]

It filled with man's mistake, but its a real lake. Lake Cahuilla I believe it was called, and it was much larger before than it is now....of course that was like 10,000 years ago.... :D
The Sea of Cortez used to be open that far up as well...maybe we could restore that too???
How hard could it be, connect with the colorado up top on the north end, connect back at the bottom at the south end. A couple of canals...fill our allotment to Mexico with some slightly salty colorado river water...
A few years and its clean, and worth billions in real estate.... geez.

[Ziggy]

It filled with man's mistake, but its a real lake. Lake Cahuilla I believe it was called, and it was much larger before than it is now....of course that was like 10,000 years ago.... :D
The Sea of Cortez used to be open that far up as well...maybe we could restore that too???
How hard could it be, connect with the colorado up top on the north end, connect back at the bottom at the south end. A couple of canals...fill our allotment to Mexico with some slightly salty colorado river water...
A few years and its clean, and worth billions in real estate.... geez.
Yeah, I saw a documentary about how far into the Sea of Cortez the river outlet has encroached, amazing how close the outlet used to be to Yuma.

[Mandelon]

That's american sand....we want it back! :D
All that dirt from the grand canyon had to go somewhere I guess.

[burtandnancy2]

Anyone know how much saltier the SS is than the ocean? In ratio, per cent, parts per million, anything...

[Ziggy]

That's american sand....we want it back! :D
All that dirt from the grand canyon had to go somewhere I guess.
LOL..imagine if no dams were built, we might be able to drive to Cabo by now :D :D :D

[Phat Matt]

Anyone know how much saltier the SS is than the ocean? In ratio, per cent, parts per million, anything...
As of 1992 it was 25% saltier than the ocean. I'll find some updated stats later. Gotta go to work. :)

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Anyone know how much saltier the SS is than the ocean? In ratio, per cent, parts per million, anything...
25 % saltier than the ocean.
The pollution came because the Govt designated it as a drainage area for the Coachella Valley farms.
The farm chemicals have added thousands of tons of chemicals and salts to the Salton Sea.
Until 1971, it was the number one tourist destination in the USA.
No more.
http://outside.away.com/images/outside/200202/ghost_map.jpg
The biology of the lake is deteriorating because the parts per million of the salts and farm chemicals are growing to astronomical concentrations. Because, and in addition, the Salton Sea is receeding, evaporating leaving huge dry lake beds putting all that garbage in the air as dust
The Biblical strength Glamis wind storms are full of that dust.
So:
One good, big plan calls for using dams to divide the Sea into thirds,, the middle third retaining the salts, the two outside thirds returning to fresher water recreation boating, overflowing into the middle to keep themselves flushed.
The most polluted river in the western hemisphere, the "New River" flows into it from Mexico.
What they have found in the New River:
Cultures find Polio,, TB,, Typhus, hospital waste, blood born communicable diseases, human waste, you name it, it's flowing in that river.
If you're a 60 minutes buff, you can look all that up. They did a huge piece on it. Even taking a water sample to a lab. The killer disease garbage growing it was astonishing.
The environmental groups in the region found the money is in fighting the dunebuggy/metal fabricating shops and campers & duners at Glamis, not in reviving the Salton sea.
Clearly shows their priorities, they follow the money.
Sonny Bonos first big push in office was to at least get the New River cleaned up.
A tree in his way at 45 MPH ended his proposals.
The Republicans were the only ones that ever gave a rats ass about the place and did a dam thing to help it's plight. As the decades pass, the cleanup costs sore, the problem grows.
The above info from National Geographic Magazine and 60 minutes.
So don't kill me for it, I'm only another sorry ass Republican.
(post proof read & corrected by 6 year old Maynard)

[Riomouse911]

A guy I work with used to fish for Corvina there many years ago, and he said they were great fighting fish.. now they're probably all looking like the three-eyed fish on the Simpsons...if they're still alive at all.
<cue soapbox>
I hate to say it, but the SS is just a small place that shows the effects lots of pollution can cause in a short period of time...and it's not too farfetched to think that Havasu, Mojave, Mead, Powell and on and on could end up as a stink hole, too if we're not careful. I love the water, love boating, love being outdoors, and I really try to keep stuff cleaner than when I got there.. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but we all should take a look-see at what impact we (people, farms, pollution etc) have on the environment and work to keep it clean for us all.
And yes, cleaning up what we all worked so hard to pollute is going to cost some duckets, but I'd rather pay some bucks for a cleaner Earth now than live near the next Hanford, Wa. (radiation) or Love Canal, NY (toxic waste) site.

[Jrocket]

2-3 years ago a survey party brought a huge barge out from back east and we off loaded it into the water.They worked for 2 weeks collecting sea floor samples and such for some testing,Im assuming that this article has to do with it.The whole time I was there all I could think about it how gross the water and shores were,and the bugs....they have some weird bugs in the water that swarm like nothing Ive ever seen before.
Just last month I was down there again to off load some modular class rooms at one of the new schools.Just amazing how much that place has grown in 3 years.The high school has 75 of these buildings going in there,thats a huge project for such a small community.Still couldnt see myself having a place there though.

[Phat Matt]

A guy I work with used to fish for Corvina there many years ago, and he said they were great fighting fish.. now they're probably all looking like the three-eyed fish on the Simpsons...if they're still alive at all.
We used to catch them all the time. I won second place in a derby when I was a kid. They are still in their from what I have heard but in very limited numbers. It seems with the extreme salinity levels they aren't reproducing anymore.
We used to catch corvina, sargo, talapia, and croaker. It was like shooting fish in a barrel their were so many.

[THOR]

Anyone know if there are zebra mussels in the Salton Sea? :D

[dirty old man]

What a shame, looks so good driving by on the way to Glamis. I like the idea of flushing the Colorado thru it on the way to the ocean, that would make it a nice lake

[Ziggy]

The "new river" is so poluted with chemicals and sewage from accross the border. Weird to see it flowing northward into the SS.
Things could be done to clean this lake up, but the farmers have to keep feeding us consumers at the same time. Sadly its a double edged sword to balance all interested factions in the Imperial Valley.
IMHO opinion repairing thelake is the easy part, its all the red tape that makes it a near impossible task.........everyone has to be on the same page for it to work.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

The "new river" is so poluted with chemicals and sewage from accross the border. Weird to see it flowing northward into the SS.
Things could be done to clean this lake up, but the farmers have to keep feeding us consumers at the same time. Sadly its a double edged sword to balance all interested factions in the Imperial Valley.
IMHO opinion repairing thelake is the easy part, its all the red tape that makes it a near impossible task.........everyone has to be on the same page for it to work.
Most of the farm drainage and run off is tracked and flows through sluices, drain systems, scuppers to canals ect.
In Japan they simply treat their farm run off water by collecting it, clairifing it, seperating it, recycling the chemicals, burning off the dangerous metals and waste in an enclosed system,, then the water is furthur treated and good to go.
We can do it.

[OCMerrill]

Oh, it also naturally filled up before that last time also.
http://www.saltonsea.ca.gov/histchron.htm#period1
This was an interesting read Matt. I couldn't sleep last night and read the entire site. I knew it was a human caused issue but not the first many times the Colorado did it on its own.
Last time we went to Glamis (4 years ago) we drove around Salton City and I still think that place could be very cool. It only takes $$. As it is now its a bit mysterious. If the buildings could spill it one could write a book.
The idea to commercial fish the volumes down to control the die offs was interesting.
I know for a fact all the folks in Palm Springs and the like hate the early morning breezes that brings up the smells.
My parents learned how to waterski there in the late 50's. My dad would tell me you could single ski deep start with very little horsepower due to the water.
I have NEVER seen a boat on that thing larger than an aluminum fishing boat.
Any hot boaters game? Speed trials? Yuk.

[Phat Matt]

This was an interesting read Matt. I couldn't sleep last night and read the entire site. I knew it was a human caused issue but not the first many times the Colorado did it on its own.
Last time we went to Glamis (4 years ago) we drove around Salton City and I still think that place could be very cool. It only takes $$. As it is now its a bit mysterious. If the buildings could spill it one could write a book.
The idea to commercial fish the volumes down to control the die offs was interesting.
I know for a fact all the folks in Palm Springs and the like hate the early morning breezes that brings up the smells.
My parents learned how to waterski there in the late 50's. My dad would tell me you could single ski deep start with very little horsepower due to the water.
I have NEVER seen a boat on that thing larger than an aluminum fishing boat.
Any hot boaters game? Speed trials? Yuk.
***boaters back in the day use to race there. :)
http://www.lesliefield.com/races/1950_apba_unlimited_trophy_lake_mead_salton_sea.ht m
"Speedboats must now make 65 mph to qualify for this historic Pacific Coast trophy." :D

[OGShocker]

***boaters back in the day use to race there. :)
http://www.lesliefield.com/races/1950_apba_unlimited_trophy_lake_mead_salton_sea.ht m
"Speedboats must now make 65 mph to qualify for this historic Pacific Coast trophy." :D
I learned how to ski there (1967)

[dumbandyoung]

This was an interesting read Matt. I couldn't sleep last night and read the entire site. I knew it was a human caused issue but not the first many times the Colorado did it on its own.
Last time we went to Glamis (4 years ago) we drove around Salton City and I still think that place could be very cool. It only takes $$. As it is now its a bit mysterious. If the buildings could spill it one could write a book.
The idea to commercial fish the volumes down to control the die offs was interesting.
I know for a fact all the folks in Palm Springs and the like hate the early morning breezes that brings up the smells.
My parents learned how to waterski there in the late 50's. My dad would tell me you could single ski deep start with very little horsepower due to the water.
I have NEVER seen a boat on that thing larger than an aluminum fishing boat.
Any hot boaters game? Speed trials? Yuk.
You can smell the crap in Ocotillo Wells. Last Thanksgiving I was up there we ate at the little Mexican food place off the sr22.. I think its called Miguel's. Anyways I couldn't hold my appetite because of it.. That and the narly bum sitting next to us. My Grandpa said he used to water ski there in the 50's too.
and like I said....
Salton Sea has...
-No sandbar
-No Channel
-No bridge
-No cool cliffs to jump off
-No casinos
Fock It
....my .02 :D

[Phat Matt]

You can smell the crap in Ocotillo Wells. Last Thanksgiving I was up there we ate at the little Mexican food place off the sr22.. I think its called Miguel's. Anyways I couldn't hold my appetite because of it.. That and the narly bum sitting next to us. My Grandpa said he used to water ski there in the 50's too.
and like I said....
Salton Sea has...
-No sandbar
-No Channel
-No bridge
-No cool cliffs to jump off
-No casinos
Fock It
....my .02 :D
They have casinos and they are building another one closer to the lake.

[SHOTKALLIN]

:idea:
now that I think about it....Salton Sea has...
-No sandbar
-No Channel
-No bridge
-No cool cliffs to jump off
-No casinos
......Fock that shitty place even if it wasn't salty. :)
it does have waterfront homes though:D

[dumbandyoung]

it does have waterfront homes though:D
So does Needles:D

[dumbandyoung]

it does have waterfront homes though:D
Really?? For the 1200 population of Salton?:D

[Baja Big Dog]

Just read a report on Global Warming...it said that in another 50 years the Salton Sea will be an ICEBURG!!!!!
All you Rhino ballers better bet some chains for your rides!!!:sqeyes:

[roostwear]

OK, I have to admit I've been watching SS real estate for around 10 years. A few years ago a lot in Salton City was around $7,500, now mid to high $20's. I never bought because or the inability of the gov't to make a decision about SS.
There's an area that has always intrigued me and would be cool to restore if SS comes back. The North Shore Yacht Club was quite the shit in it's day.The location is good, and one of the few "resort" locations I can think of that could be renovated and be viable. That location has both the club on the water, and a motel.
http://www.csusm.edu/dbarrett/e_sierra/mojave/kk_salton_nshr01-15.jpg
http://www.csusm.edu/dbarrett/e_sierra/mojave/salton_n_shr479.jpg
The big questions are will any action ever be taken, and will the water level remain the same or drop. Not much good having a yacht club that's high and dry.
We used to ride the dirtbikes and party at the canals to the east of North Shore State Park and got more familiar with SS. There's hot springs in the area and still many original structures around from the old days in Bombay Beach, Salton City, etc.
Yes it smells like hell, but it could be fixed... if people gave a shit.

[EmpirE231]

Hmmmmmmm :idea: so when should we start buying property??
they dont have a sandbar or channel, but they also don't have noise laws and I'm sure girls can flash a nipple here and there :D

[RitcheyRch]

See some extruded salt come out of the jet.
This was an interesting read Matt. I couldn't sleep last night and read the entire site. I knew it was a human caused issue but not the first many times the Colorado did it on its own.
Last time we went to Glamis (4 years ago) we drove around Salton City and I still think that place could be very cool. It only takes $$. As it is now its a bit mysterious. If the buildings could spill it one could write a book.
The idea to commercial fish the volumes down to control the die offs was interesting.
I know for a fact all the folks in Palm Springs and the like hate the early morning breezes that brings up the smells.
My parents learned how to waterski there in the late 50's. My dad would tell me you could single ski deep start with very little horsepower due to the water.
I have NEVER seen a boat on that thing larger than an aluminum fishing boat.
Any hot boaters game? Speed trials? Yuk.

[Old Texan]

Until 1971, it was the number one tourist destination in the USA.
No more.
I've got a hard time buying into that one.
National Geo is pretty accurate but 60 Minutes will tell a whopper now and then.:D

[dumbandyoung]

What kinda of fish can you catch in that shit puddle?

[roostwear]

The dead ones are the easiest.....

[Phat Matt]

What kinda of fish can you catch in that shit puddle?
Refer to post #28.

[dumbandyoung]

So I guess leave the pole at home and just bring a net.
I think thats what the guys in Elsinore do.

[Ziggy]

A few years back I took a road trip with the family for the day and we ended up on the western shores of SS, I'd say pretty much directly east of Borrego Springs.
As we drove up the beach looked awesome, beautiful blonde white shore. Then we walked down there and nearly cut our feet to pieces in our flops. What appeared to be pristine sand was simple dead fish bones. Sharp as hell. Felt like I'd walked through and cactus patch.
Its sad to see that so much potential fallen into dispair and disrepair. The locals aren't exactly very concerned with ecological issues, many properties look like Sanford and Son's.

[dumbandyoung]

A few years back I took a road trip with the family for the day and we ended up on the western shores of SS, I'd say pretty much directly east of Borrego Springs.
As we drove up the beach looked awesome, beautiful blonde white shore. Then we walked down there and nearly cut our feet to pieces in our flops. What appeared to be pristine sand was simple dead fish bones. Sharp as hell. Felt like I'd walked through and cactus patch.
Its sad to see that so much potential fallen into dispair and disrepair. The locals aren't exactly very concerned with ecological issues, many properties look like Sanford and Son's.
Fish bones..wtf!?? HAHA!
..True about the homes there. Pretty trashy. I just get a bad vibe from that place. :D

[Mandelon]

Looks like Zebra mussels might be the answer.

[dumbandyoung]

Maybe the Zebra Mussels have bones:hammer2:

[Flyinbowtie]

I watched a deal on TV awhile back that discussed the incredible levels of pollution coming across the border in that river from Mexico and into the SS.
(Since we don't seem to have the political will to control the people coming across the border, maybe we can start small, and work our way up with this river.)
Seems to me that the first thing to do is to stop the inflow of the bad stuff and then clean up whats there. While I'm not thrilled with the idea of spending the $, I can certainly think of a dozen or so genuine gov't. boondoggles that could be eliminated to pay for it.

[OCMerrill]

So I guess leave the pole at home and just bring a net.
I think thats what the guys in Elsinore do.
I just had a thought...maybe the SS secretly feeds Elsinore? This must be the natural spring put in the south end years back:D :D
And let's take up a hot boat collection and buy that old Yaht Club. Have a killer party, then shoot it up, and burn it.:D

[OCMerrill]

One other thought....
If the Sierra Club were to file a lawsuit against (insert everybody here) I would bet that someone would clean it up in a hurry.:eek:
Hey wait I think I saw a Pearsons Milk Vetch floating on the surface?:) NOw we form the ASA. (American Salton Association). Nevermind.
Fawking Sierra Club.