Social Security

[fatboy95]

This came across today. Don't shoot me I'm just the messenger.
Dark and best kept secrets about Our Social Security.
Many years ago in Seattle, two wonderful neighbors,
Elliott and Patty Roosevelt came to my home to swim on
a regular basis. They were a great couple full of
laughter and stories that today I continue to marvel
at. Both are now deceased, but their stories remain.
During the years of our friendship we had many, many
discussions about Elliott's parents (President Franklin D.
and Eleanor Roosevelt) and how his father and mother
never intended for the Social Security and Welfare
programs to turn out the way they are today. Elliott
used to say that if his parents returned to earth and
saw what the poiticians had done to their programs
they would have burned all of them in hell.
Here is a story I received today regarding the Social
Security Program and I immediately thought of
Elliott's comments. I Hope you will read
this and think about it.
_____________________________________________
Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
Security (FICA) Program. He promised:
1.) That participation in the Program would be
completely voluntary,
2.) That the participants would only have to pay
1% of the first $1,400 of their annual
incomes into the Progrm,
3.) That the money the participants elected to put
into the Program would be deductible from
their income for tax purposes each year,
4.) That the money the participants put into the
independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the
General operating fund, and therefore, would
only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other
Government program, and,
5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees
would never be taxed as income
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are
now receiving a Social Security check every month --
and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
the money we paid to the Federal government to "put
away" -- you may be interested in the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the
independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the
General fund so that Congress could spend it?
A: It was Lyndon Jhnson and the democratically
controlled House and Senate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax
deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?
A: The Democratic Party.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social
Security annuities????
A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the
"tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the
Senate, while he was Vice Presidentof the US .
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving
annuity payments to immigrants?
This is MY FAVORITE:
A: That's right! Jimmy Carter! And the Democratic Party of course!
Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65,
began to receive Social Security payments! The
Democratic Party gave these payments to them,
even though they never paid a dime into it!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then, after doing all this lying and thieving and violating
of the original contract (FICA), the Democrats
turn around and tell you that the Republicans
want to take your Social Security away!
And the worst part about it is uninformed
citizens believe it!
==============================================
If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of
awareness will be planted and maybe changes will
evolve. Maybe not!.. many Democrats are awfully
sure of what isn't so!!
"THE ONLY THING NEEDED FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING"
EDMUND BURKE .
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[uvindex]

This came across today. Don't shoot me I'm just the messenger.I'm not going to shoot you but I will suggest that you check Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/sschanges.asp). :D

[bigq]

I can't see this ever changing till something drastic happens to the USA. The "old glory" is done, bring in the socialism.:rolleyes:

[bigq]

I'm not going to shoot you but I will suggest that you check Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/sschanges.asp). :D
Snoopes can't change the fact that SS is a problem no matter who started it.

[uvindex]

Snoopes can't change the fact that SS is a problem no matter who started it.Did someone say that it could?
Maybe Snopes can help folks to exercise a little critical thinking when hoax or urban myth emails arrive in their inboxes. :)

[HM]

Social Security is the ultimate ponzi scheme.
They need a constant flow of new investors in order to pay off the old ones.

[RitcheyRch]

Unfortunately a lot of truth to that.
Social Security is the ultimate ponzi scheme.
They need a constant flow of new investors in order to pay off the old ones.

[bigq]

Did someone say that it could?
Maybe Snopes can help folks to exercise a little critical thinking when hoax or urban myth emails arrive in their inboxes. :)
No they didn't thats why it was a statement obvious fact and not a question.;)

[SB]

We spend too much on old people.
The dubious facts posted above obscure what is important.
We have to cut spending on old people.

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

Now that I'm a state employee, my previous 17 years of paying into SS are just a mere donation. Thank God I never planned on getting it in the first place, but it still ticks me off. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[fatboy95]

We spend too much on old people.
The dubious facts posted above obscure what is important.
We have to cut spending on old people.
WTF????? It's the old people that fought the wars giving you the opportunity you have today. They paid their dues as I did in Viet Nam. Let's take a closer look at what we are spending money on and not disrespect our seniors.

[lewiville]

I'm not going to shoot you but I will suggest that you check Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/sschanges.asp). :D
I check snopes on everything. dont be fooled.

[SB]

WTF????? It's the old people that fought the wars giving you the opportunity you have today. They paid their dues as I did in Viet Nam. Let's take a closer look at what we are spending money on and not disrespect our seniors.
Thank you for your service in Vietnam. I pray that the next election doesn't have constant arguments about Vietnam.
I'm sick of hearing about the greatest generation. Apparently because Hitler was so bad, they get a free pass for all their mistakes. What have seniors done for us lately?
Those people have voted themselves huge benefits that we can't afford. I mean it is mathematically impossible to pay them. The facts are not difficult to find or understand. The solutions may be politically unpalatable but they are really not that difficult.
1. Stop COLA. Or at least limit it to 25% of the budget surplus so seniors have some incentive to save.
2. Most of the money spent on Medicare is used for heroic measures in the last few weeks of life (wasted). STOP doing that.
If you want to get fancy, you could also try
3. Means testing for benefits. Millionaires should not have unlimited free health care from govt.
Seniors have everyone conned. A few small changes and we're fine.

[058]

We spend too much on old people.
The dubious facts posted above obscure what is important.
We have to cut spending on old people.What has "old people" cost YOU?
The so called 'old people' have paid and paid all their lives and continue to pay after retirement thru the same taxes you pay, ie: property tax, sales tax, tax on SS [thank you Bill Clinton] fuel tax, user fees, etc. So in your not so humble opinion what are "old people suppose to do? Kill them selves at age 65 so you don't have to bother with them? Let the government exterminate them so FICA can be cut? Lets have the government exterminate your parents when they retire and then they will exterminate you when you reach retirement age just so you don't become a burden on society. Do us all a favor and don't grow old. :mad:

[058]

Thank you for your service in Vietnam. I pray that the next election doesn't have constant arguments about Vietnam. Me too.
I'm sick of hearing about the greatest generation. Apparently because Hitler was so bad, they get a free pass for all their mistakes. What have seniors done for us lately? What have you done for anyone? Why do you think anyone has to do anything for you or anyone else? Are seniors obligated to do something for you? Were you raised by monkeys or did you have a mother and father?
Those people have voted themselves huge benefits that we can't afford. I mean it is mathematically impossible to pay them. The facts are not difficult to find or understand. The solutions may be politically unpalatable but they are really not that difficult. Who is "we"? What "old people" have voted huge benefits for themselves? If you have a problem with that then maybe you should start voting.
1. Stop COLA. Or at least limit it to 25% of the budget surplus so seniors have some incentive to save. Yeah, "old people" don't save anything, do they? After all old people have such an easy life its nothing but sipping Martinis by the pool wondering what all the young poor people are doing laughing at them for being such suckers paying for the "old people's" benefits.
2. Most of the money spent on Medicare is used for heroic measures in the last few weeks of life (wasted). STOP doing that. Yeah...after one reaches say 30 years old no "heroic measures" should be used, afterall most people over 30 are worthless and more often than not contribute nothing to society.
If you want to get fancy, you could also try
3. Means testing for benefits. Millionaires should not have unlimited free health care from govt. Do they now? Sorry but I don't see millionaires standing in line at the local county hospital or free clinic waiting for medical care.
Seniors have everyone conned. A few small changes and we're fine.
You are a whining fu*king moron.:mad: Do us all a favor and drop dead and save us the expense of caring for you.

[SB]

058, that was a little harsh, my friend.:D I don't do drama.
I'm not whining, I'm doing ok, and though I don't plan to retire, I do plan to have enough of my own $ to retire if I want.
I'm not a moron.
I've read your posts and you are not a moron either.
I suggest you do some research, perhaps starting with the Concord Coalition, and come back and prove me wrong.
I have informed myself, and I'm not going to back off.
This is not about me, I am concerned for the future of my country.
To use a Titanic analogy, when you see the iceberg ahead, you turn the ship a few degrees, way ahead of time. You don't wait until the last minute.
A few small cuts now, and the U.S. will be ok, they should have been done 15 years ago.
This thread started as an attempt to blame one political party for the problems with Social Security, which is a pointless waste of time.
Look at the budget, look at how much we spend on Social Security and Medicare, look at how much it's going to grow. Don't take my word for it, ask the Congressional Budget Office.

[SB]

058, thanks for the pm.
There are plenty of wasteful things the govt. should cut, the point is well taken.
But even if the entire Defense Dept. budget were eliminated there would not be enough money to continue funding Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid at current levels.
The basic facts are a matter of arithmetic, not ideology. Two factors stand out: demographics and health care costs.
The FACTS are readily available at http://concordcoalition.org/
We can, of course, argue about the best course of action.

[BRSTQUEST]

Now that I'm a state employee, my previous 17 years of paying into SS are just a mere donation. Thank God I never planned on getting it in the first place, but it still ticks me off. :mad: :mad: :mad:
That is not true...To receive a payment you need to have contributed for 40 credits, or 4 quarters a year...That is like working for ten years and making payments for ten years. Your payment maybe small but you will get checks

[Jesster]

That is not true...To receive a payment you need to have contributed for 40 credits, or 4 quarters a year...That is like working for ten years and making payments for ten years. Your payment maybe small but you will get checks
That is not true in the case of some state employees. They contribute to their own retirement accounts and even though they may have contributed to the SS system for the full 40 credits they "opt out" of the SS system when they "opt in" to the STRS system (State Teachers' Retirement System) and I believe also the PERS (Public Employees' Retirement System). This isn’t right but then again the 2 retirement systems mentioned are so far above the SS system that they aren’t even comparable. I believe this sort of thing was allowed to keep the SS system solvent for a little longer. My wife is a teacher and also has her 40 credits, so this has come up on a number of occasions.

[edog_103]

My Grandfather was a Teacher in the State of California for 35 years. Contributed the min. amount he could to Social Security to collect. He's been collecting Social Security and his teachers pension now for 25 years. It's frustrating.

[Jesster]

My Grandfather was a Teacher in the State of California for 35 years. Contributed the min. amount he could to Social Security to collect. He's been collecting Social Security and his teachers pension now for 25 years. It's frustrating.
That would depend on when he retired if he retired 25 years ago that was before they put the SS restriction on CA teachers. It is brought up every year to change it back but so far it has met a lot of resistance. It seems pretty unfair to those that paid in for years to only have it taken away because they now have a better retirement system. The system needs to be fixed not just prolong its imminent death. There should be an option to opt out of SS for the wealthy, but only if they want to, after all they paid in too. Look at how many double and triple dippers are out there. The ex military, ex law enforcement and many others are double and triple dipping with no SS restriction. I'm not saying take anything away, I’m just saying the double standards and the lack of most (especially Democratic) politicians being unwilling to fix SS is what will ring an end to it.

[centerhill condor]

there are problems with social security...to be sure.. when it was first established most folks didn't live to collect. Now we're living longer and better than ever. This should be a good thing.
The system as it was established hasn't been changed to reflect the advancements in our average lifetime. Systems that don't adapt are doomed to fail.
It is unfortunate that our leadership is currently using this and other entitlements to divide and conquer as a means to maintian power. Also, changing demographics (read not having 10 kids) have increased the financial burden on each worker.
We will see more and worse intergenerational conflict as the "ponzi" scheme runs its course.
I'm convinced that much higher retirement ages are part of a balanced solution to the problem. This will also help with the current "brain drain" as those with the experience leave the workforce further reducing our ability to compete.
The complete solution would be to get the gov't out of the planned obsolescence business. But hey, we'll take baby steps if we take any action.

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

That is not true in the case of some state employees. They contribute to their own retirement accounts and even though they may have contributed to the SS system for the full 40 credits they "opt out" of the SS system when they "opt in" to the STRS system (State Teachers' Retirement System) and I believe also the PERS (Public Employees' Retirement System). This isn’t right but then again the 2 retirement systems mentioned are so far above the SS system that they aren’t even comparable. I believe this sort of thing was allowed to keep the SS system solvent for a little longer. My wife is a teacher and also has her 40 credits, so this has come up on a number of occasions.
Exactly. It's not fair at all that I paid in for 17 years for someone else to get. There is a bill up this year to change it, again. I'll keep my fingers crossed for both of us, but I won't hold my breath :D