Trailer Boats Mag - 1/2 ton truck towing review (Toyota Tundra #1)

[rivercrazy]

Half-ton pickups are the most popular tow vehicle class. The category has been hot for a decade and is still steaming, for those who know how to compete in this smokin’ market. Every one of the five trucks in this year’s test has, at the very least, been updated since our last 1?2-ton roundup in 2004, but the entry of Toyota’s new Tundra — now a truly full-size pickup — and the completely redesigned GM product has set the class ablaze. Maximum tow ratings have continued to edge ever upward, and trailer boaters now enjoy an even wider array of models to fit their active lifestyles.
We decided to test four-wheel-drive (4WD), crew cab 1?2-tons, and we asked each of the five manufacturers to deliver a 2007 model set up (with engine, transmission, axle ratio and tire size) to attain the maximum tow rating available.
Gathered for this, our 25th annual Tow Vehicle of the Year trials, was a Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie Mega Cab, Ford F-150 King Ranch Lariat SuperCrew, GMC Sierra 1500 Crew Cab SLT, Nissan Titan SE Crew Cab and Toyota Tundra Double Cab SR5. Tow ratings (as delivered) ranged from 7650 to 10,300 pounds, and for test sleds we used a pair of 2007 Chaparral 256 SSi bowriders on Zieman triaxle trailers with dual disc brakes. Each weighed 6840 pounds, and had 520 pounds of tongue weight.
We measured towing and nontowing performance, braking, and fuel mileage, and our six judges also evaluated each truck in city traffic, hill climbing, highway cruising and a variety of other towing and nontowing situations.
DODGE RAM 1500 MEGA CAB
Our test vehicle was equipped with the only engine available in the 1500 Mega Cab, a 5.7L Hemi V-8 that generates 345 hp and 375 lb.-ft. of torque. It comes with a five-speed OD automatic transmission, standard 3.73:1 axle gears and an optional, antispin rear differential. The Trailer Tow Group added the wiring harness, 750-amp battery and Class IV receiver. The test unit delivered was a two-wheel-drive model, the only one of the bunch.
The front end is a typical double A-arm-style IFS setup, instead of the live axle under the 4WD model. Underneath the tail is a live axle with longitudinal leaf springs and shocks. Large disc brakes (with four-wheel ABS), power rack-and-pinion steering, and LT265/70R17 tires on 17x8-inch chrome-clad wheels are all standard equipment on the 1500 Mega Cab.
The Dodge was the perfect example of how much axle gear (ring and pinion) ratio choice can influence maximum trailer weight ratings. Our truck was delivered with the standard 3.73:1 rear end, and was tagged with a 7650-pound tow rating. A couple hundred dollars extra would get you the optional 4.10 axle, along with better acceleration and hill climbing, plus 1000 pounds more trailer-towing capacity. The increase in fuel consumption as a result of the higher-numeric axle gear ratio should be minimal under normal driving conditions.
FORD F-150 SUPERCREW
The F-150 SuperCrew is a gorgeous vehicle. It came to us equipped with the three-valve-per-cylinder Triton 5.4L V-8 that puts out 300 hp and 365 lb.-ft. of torque. The engine features variable camshaft timing and is backed by a four-speed OD automatic. Front suspension duties are carried out by a double A-arm IFS arrangement; the rear suspension is a live axle with longitudinal leaf springs with shock absorbers set outboard of the springs. Steering is provided by a high-ratio power rack-and-pinion system directing P275/55R20 tires on 20-inch aluminum wheels. Large vented disc brakes front and rear are powered by vacuum-assist, four-wheel ABS.
Our test unit was delivered with the 3.73 axle in the optional limited-slip differential. This garnered the vehicle a tow rating of 9200 pounds — however, Ford notes in its publications to reduce the GCWR/maximum trailer weight rating by 500 pounds on models with 18- or 20-inch wheels. So, our test rig entered the fray with an 8700-pound tow rating.
GMC 1500 SIERRA CREW CAB
This is a sweet truck. Our unit was powered by the reworked 6.0L V-8 VortecMAX that kicks out 367 hp and 375 lb.-ft. of torque. The OHV powerplant features variable valve timing and Active Fuel Management. Its power is passed through the Super Duty four-speed OD automatic, and then on to the optional 3.73 axle. This truck had the beefy 9.5-inch rear axle that comes with the 6.0L and 6.2L engines. The rear suspension features semi-elliptical, variable-rate, two-stage leaf springs, and splayed-mount monotube shocks. Up front, the truck was equipped with a double A-arm IFS setup using coil-over monotube shocks. The P265/70R17 tires are mounted to 17x7.5-inch aluminum wheels, and are steered through a power-assisted, rack-and-pinion system. Power-assisted, four-wheel disc brakes with ABS are on all four corners.
Here’s another vehicle for which axle gear and option package choices are key. As provided, our test unit had a maximum tow rating of 8500
pounds — however, if it had been delivered with the optional NHT “maximum capacity trailering” suspension instead of the Z71 “offroad” suspension package, and the optional 4.10 axle, the vehicle would have been rated at 10,500 pounds. That’s a 2000-pound difference.
NISSAN TITAN CREW CAB
The Nissan Titan took top honors in our 2004 Tow Vehicle of the Year contest, and for good reason. This was, and still is, a potent competitor with brawny towing credentials. The truck is powered by the updated 5.6L DOHC, 32-valve Endurance V-8 that produces 317 hp and 385 lb.-ft. of torque. It puts its power to the wheels through a gated five-speed automatic with a tow/haul mode.
Our test unit was blessed with the lower (higher numeric) of the two available axle ratios (2.94 and 3.36) that comes with the optional Offroad or Tow packages, both of which graced our test vehicle. The front suspension is a double A-arm design with a stabilizer bar; a solid axle with leaf springs supports the rear end. Front and rear are treated to Rancho offroad performance shocks. The front brakes are large vented discs, the rear also features large discs, and all four are augmented with ABS. Power assist rack-and-pinion steering engaged the 17x7.5-inch aluminum alloy wheels and P285/70R17 tires.
As delivered, the Titan was tow rated for 9400 pounds — again the result of being equipped with the proper option packages.
TOYOTA TUNDRA DOUBLE CAB
A long-awaited vehicle, this is the first true full-size Toyota pickup, and its dimensions tell the story. Our test unit was a Double Cab standard bed with a wheelbase of 145.7 inches and an overall length of 228.7 inches. (See specs for all five trucks in the chart.) A whopping 381 hp and 401 lb.-ft. of torque are produced by a new 5.7L i-FORCE DOHC 32-valve V-8 that features variable valve timing. The truck was also equipped with the new six-speed OD automatic.
The front-end setup consists of double A-arm IFS with coil springs; the rear end is a 10.5-inch solid axle (standard in the 5.7L V-8) with leaf springs and staggered shocks. The optional TRD offroad package beefed up the suspension a bit with high-performance Bilstein monotube shocks. The TRD package also netted the truck a set of 18-inch alloy wheels and P275/65R18 tires. A power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering system turns the front wheels. And the brake system is a power-assist four-wheel disc setup with ABS all the way around.
Our unit featured a 4.30 axle as part of the 5.7L V-8 Towing Package that — among other goodies — also nets you a frame-integrated receiver hitch, extendable towing mirrors and a transmission temperature gauge. As delivered, it was rated to tow 10,300 pounds, the highest in the group.
TONGUE WEIGHT
All of the trucks tested did a good job of holding up the boat’s 520 pounds of tongue weight. The Dodge Ram produced more sway and “light front end” moments than the others, however — more than one tester thought the boat pushed the Dodge around a bit. By comparison, the Toyota and Ford handled the load “tightly” and “securely,” as described by testers. The Nissan and GMC’s rear ends dropped more so than the others, but still supported the tongue weight without any noticeable handling quirks.
VISIBILITY
Huge roof supports, such as the C-pillar behind the rear seats of the Dodge Mega Cab, or the high sills and small windows in the rear of the Toyota Tundra, may obstruct your line of sight over the shoulder, but mirrors can make or break a vehicle in this category.
The Dodge offers rectangular flip-up mirrors (with a built-in, nonadjustable convex spot) that are tucked in horizontally for everyday use, then rotate into an outboard vertical position for towing. And while they don’t extend out as much as some of the others, all of the testers liked them. We wish we could say the same for the GMC’s mirrors — they were “sport” style, smallish, and didn’t offer good coverage for towing. The Ford, Nissan and Toyota all had large mirrors that provided excellent visibility for towing large boats. We favored the Nissan above all because its rectangular vertical mirrors were huge, extendable, and featured an adjustable convex spot. Ford’s mirrors were also good, but did’t extend. The extendable Toyota mirrors offered a nonadjustable convex spot, but were only fair in their coverage because of their more squarish shape.
ENGINE PERFORMANCE
The Dodge Ram received remarks such as “engine seemed strong, although towing acceleration was not as good as I had expected with all the hype about the Hemi,” and “decent towing power on flats and mild inclines, but not a great hill climber.” On steeper hills, the Dodge had trouble pulling the 6840-pound trailer boat any faster than 45 mph — but on flat stretches the Dodge would cruise at 55 mph without a lot of effort.
Reviewers made comments such as, “good power, but bogged a little on hills,” and “good flatland performance, but when pulling hills, the truck stays in second gear at 3000 rpm and begins losing steam” when towing with the Ford F-150. Nontowing performance was aggressive, with strong midrange punch, although the engine was deemed a “tad noisy” and “not as smooth as some others.”
“Very punchy,” was typical of the nontowing comments our testers made about the GMC Sierra. “It would jump to near 90 mph with barely a sweat,” wrote one judge. Towing performance was generally well regarded, too. Another tester noted, “towing power seemed strong and consistent. It accelerates well and holds its own on the hills.” But the panel’s consensus was that hill climbs were not its forte.
“Nissan’s 5.6L Endurance V-8 rocks!” was one tester’s enthusiastic remark about the Titan. It offered excellent off-the-line and midrange acceleration, along with plenty of power while towing. Its nontowing performance was equally spry. Another judge commented that it was “very smooth and powerful while towing.” Yet another opined, “pulled hills like it was hauling a much smaller boat.”
The Toyota received notes that included, “no problemo... mucho torque” and “on steep hills, it hardly knows the boat is behind it.” A linear progression of power was one of the things we liked most, but the engine was considered noisy during hard acceleration or downshifts. During nontowing drives, the new i-FORCE 5.7L V-8 jumped when we stepped on the gas, even at highway speeds.
TRANSMISSION
The Toyota was equipped with a six-speed auto with a “slap-stick” manual shift feature. This was especially welcome when towing on hills, as the transmission could be locked into any gear without concern of upshifting. It worked great for controlling downhill speed, as well. Even when left in the “Drive” position, the tranny didn’t gear hunt (that is, once its logic had settled on a gear choice). The new six-speed also had the widest overall range of gear ratios of any vehicle in this test, and featured a Tow/Haul mode.
The Nissan offered a five-speed auto tranny with a “gated” shifter that allowed it to be used in much the same way as the Toyota tranny. It also came with a Tow/Haul mode. It could be manually shifted to select exactly the right gear for the situation and avoid gear hunting. Comments such as “seamlessly went through gears to 70 mph” and “smooth shifts, easy-to-find gears” described its even-tempered performance. Downhill speed could also be controlled through manual gear selection, with no worries that it would upshift unintentionally.
Gear hunting was a common thread when reading through the test comments on the Dodge transmission. It shifted loudly and roughly when under a load, and the top three gears were all bound into the Drive position — which means that you can’t man-ually choose between fourth and third gear. A button on the end of the column-mount shifter toggles through OD lockout and Tow/Haul mode, but the OD lockout button only closes out fifth gear.
Our Ford had a four-speed OD auto tranny. Operation was smooth during towing and nontowing exercises, with little or no gear hunting. One tester commented, “too bad the engine power on hills couldn’t do the tranny justice.” As an aside, we have lots of experience with this package, and believe the 20-inch wheels hampered our test unit’s hill-climbing performance.
The GMC Sierra also came equipped with a four-speed OD auto tranny with a Tow/Haul mode and OD lockout. Testers liked the GM powertrain and remarked that it was “smooth” in all nontowing situations, but “not as seamless as the Nissan or Toyota.” It was also noted that it “holds gears on hills, but wants to stay in second on steep climbs.”
RIDE AND HANDLING
Our GMC test unit received relatively high marks in this category, earning comments such as, “carlike,” “stable and smooth” and “firmly in control.” But when it came to towing, the notes changed to “a little bouncy” and “lots of road feel, but never out of control.”
The Dodge Ram didn’t fare as well. The suspension was deemed “soft” nontowing, but one judge noted that jolts from freeway expansion joints “made yodeling easy.” Towing behavior was not favored either, gathering comments such as, “wallows” and “the rear end kicks out to the side after potholes or railroad tracks.”
Comments such as “excellent handling and control while towing” and “hugs the road” described the Ford
F-150’s towing behavior. Its nontowing ride and handling characteristics were smooth and carlike, its towing performance solid and comfortable.
The Nissan’s nontowing ride was “very smooth,” as one panelist noted. Its towing behavior was no different, and earned accolades such as, “comfortable and confident” and “kept the trailer in control.” During induced sway tests, however, the Nissan was subject to a little tail wagging, probably due to its comparatively short wheelbase.
The testers liked our Toyota Tundra, too. Common themes in the test notes were comments such as, “easy to forget you’re towing” and “controls the tow well — no sway.” In fact, two testers commented that in some ways it felt like a 3?4-ton pickup. Its nontowing ride and handling seemed “taut and offered good control,” although it was not thought to be as smooth as some of the others.
LAYOUT AND STYLING
Some testers did not care for the gauge layout of the Toyota, particularly the “tunnels” or plastic tubes/rings in which the smaller instruments are nestled, but others offered comments such as, “simple, intuitive and easy to reach and use.” The seats are supportive and comfortable, and most testers loved the muscular body styling. But more than one was unhappy with the high rear windowsills and small rear windows of our Double Cab model.
The GMC offers excellent instrumentation and layout, but the icons on switches and buttons are too small to easily see, and the low placement of many controls doesn’t help. We did especially like the digital scrolling readout that included great info, including transmission temperature and estimated fuel consumption. Seating accommodations are cushy, and all agreed that the Sierra’s smartly styled body is a welcome relief from the “boxy” look of some of the trucks.
The Nissan provided easy-to-see instrumentation, and controls that are well marked and big enough to grab on to. Overall, it’s a well-designed cockpit with great seats. However, to some it seemed a little unsophisticated. Body styling with the hard-lined Titan is a love/hate thing. We couldn’t agree; you decide.
Ford’s F-150 King Ranch interior is akin to being in a Western movie while you drive. The saddle leather-style seats are warm and comfy, and look like something you would have in your ranch house. Instrumentation is basic and easy to read; and controls are simple and straightforward. It’s the “less is more” philosophy, and it works. The exterior has a brawny, tough look. It’s a bit boxy for some, but handsome nonetheless.
The Dodge Ram Mega Cab, of course, offers the roomiest cab in the group. The seats are good, but not great — more support and less stuffing would be our suggestion. The main instruments are large and easy to read, but the overall dash styling is somewhat dated in comparison to the rest of the group. Most judges deemed its sheet metal stylish, although some thought its looks were tame compared to the other trucks.
FINAL ROUND
We spent nearly two weeks with these five trucks: All had bright spots — some more than others. We recorded raw performance characteristics both towing and nontowing, and also made subjective evaluations in everything from engine/tranny performance to ergonomics and styling. When the dust finally settled, the points were tallied and the truck that shined brightest in Trailer Boats’ 25th Annual Tow Vehicle of the Year shoot-out was the...
...2007 Toyota Tundra Double Cab SR5 4WD powered by the 5.7L i-FORCE V-8.
Congratulations to Toyota for creating an outstanding product right off the drawing board. Completely redesigned this year, the Tundra took top honors in critical categories such as overall engine and transmission performance, and towing ride and handling. It also scored best in fit, finish and styling, and is, by far, the most significant new product to hit the 1?2-ton pickup market since the Titan’s 2004 debut.
It was also the quickest in nontowing acceleration, had the second-most-rapid towing acceleration, and boasted the greatest gross combined weight rating. The 2007 Toyota Tundra is a now officially a member of the full-size truck club, with all the brawny power, easy operation and good looks that active trailer boaters want from a tow vehicle. Well done!

[RandyH]

Good, good, good. I am happy that Toyota is building plants, hiring americans, spending money with Nascar , advertising on all media channels. Spend Spend Spend.
I just wouldn't spend a dime of my money on their product. So please Toyota, keep spending.
Thank you.
America........

[LLGirl]

I just did a similar testing this past Tuesday. We drove the same five trucks on three different courses. One for towing, payload and on/off road. The Tundra was by far the best of them all. Towing is unbelievable. We had to haul ass down a straight-away and then slam on the brakes - you hardly even felt the trailer behind you.
Yes I work for Toyota, but I'm not being biased. We own an '05 Silverado and I love it. I've always liked the looks of the Fords. Working for the company or not - the new Tundra is just an awesome truck.

[Jyruiz]

Looks like the Dodge was at the bottom of almost every category.

[roostwear]

Looks like the Dodge was at the bottom of almost every category.
An apple to apples comparison with the Dodge would have been nice. The only 2x, and a megacab? What were they thinking?

[cc322]

4:30 gears will be a big differance with the Toyota, as all the others had 3:73's. It will be interesting to see how many new Tundras are parked at Windsor this summer?:D

[Not So Fast]

I read with some confusion about the problems folks have with say a Dodge, or a Ford or a Chevy or a Toyota or a Nissan but pledge such allegiance to said brand. I buy what I believe is the best product for the money and what will serve me the best, is that wrong, not to me its not. You only get to screw me once!!
Then with all of the hulabaloo about Toyota invading the hallowed grounds of NASCAR last week and the subsequent interview with Waltrip he simply stated that the Camry was the only car entered in the race that was made in America, how ironic!! I'll get flamed for this post but what the hell, not the first time.. PEACE NSF

[YeLLowBoaT]

4:30 gears will be a big differance with the Toyota, as all the others had 3:73's. It will be interesting to see how many new Tundras are parked at Windsor this summer?:D
I also saw that... that makes a huge diff when it comes to towing, but it will cost you MPG...

[Outnumbered]

Typical bull shit biased test. Lets get a Mega Cab which makes a Tundra look like a Toy and put 3.73 gears in it:rolleyes:
How about using similar ratios in similar size trucks??? Get a Quad Cab Hemi with 4.10s and it would be a different story. Gearing and wheel base are apples to oranges.

[cc322]

Cant take nothing away from Toyota they are a very smart company, they are here to compete and they will give it a run, just makes the others try even harder. Competition is good.
Toyota brings absolutely NOTHING to this competitive mix that wasn't there before. Ford and GM do NOT take this segment for granted, and they never have. Dodge phoned it in for decades, until '94 or so.
Further, it will take a long time before Toyota's per unit profit advantage gives them the gross disposable capital that Ford, with 450-500k F150s and 350-400k Super Duties sold per year, has to spend.
Ford doesn't need Toyota to make them take this segment seriously. They have a system in place that works, and that keeps their eye on the ball.
And that's the big thing. Ford's system works. They don't need outside pressure to force them to scramble together and turn out some revolutionary once-in-a-lifetime truck.
Ford simply builds good trucks year in and year out, and there's no surprises. They just do their job quickly and efficiently, and in response to what their customers want.
The F-Series, like the Mustang, is one of Ford's market driven (as opposed to product driven) success stories.

[Outnumbered]

Actually the new Tundra Crew max is larger than the mega cab. The Hemi engine of old was great Hemi engine of new is a joke. Horsepower and torque rating it is second to last only beets the F-150. Which has been the same truck for the last 3 years starting with an 8000lb tow rating then since they had to keep up they just changed tow Rating to 10000lbs. Toyota says their truck's tow capacity is greatly under rated they did not want a truck that could pull more than a 10,000lbs only on certain occasions. They wanted to give their truck a rating that could pull the weight daily, in 115 degree heat up hill down hill or whatever else. Like it or not Toyota has stepped into the american truck market and this is a step towards 3/4 an 1ton trucks to. The eventual goal is to make a 2500hd compared to a 3/4 ton Toyota similar to comparing a Malibu to a Camry now. the only reason to buy the Malibu is you can't afford or qualify for the Toyota. In the 1/2 ton class the only competition for the new Tundra is the 6.0 Max from Chevy very nice truck, but the Ford, Nissan, and Dodge are definately way behind. Again Toyota's market for this truck is the 1/2 ton market for now they are not trying to compete in the 2500, 3500 market.
Get your facts straight. The Mega Cab is a bigger truck regardless of how far the plastic bumpers stick out on the Toyota. I said WHEELBASE:
Mega Cab Wheelbase=160
Tundra Wheelbase=145
And as far as motors go. The Hemi is hardly a Joke. The torque is huge, second only to the Toyota and the motor flat hauls ass.
Torque/HP
Toyota 381/401
Hemi 345/390
Nissan 5.6 317/385
GM 6.0 367/375
GM 5.3 315/338
Ford 5.4 300/365
I have owned Toyotas, Chevys, Dodges, and they all have pros/cons. But the fact is that gears make a huge diference. Comparing trucks with different gear ratios is apples to oranges. Period.

[cc322]

Fords have never been the makers of high HP numbers but rather torque, Ford motors deliver higher torque lower in the rpm range for towing power, thats what gets you going. As where GM delivers HP which will say C-YA in the long run

[YeLLowBoaT]

Also, what the "factory" rates the motor at has nothing to do with what it actaully makes or could make. With computer control its basicly dail up the power you want.
The federal gov has thier hands in on it as well by regulation the total emissions a companys cars/trucks can release... a good example of a company trying to meet this standard was the pt crusier... it was technically a "light truck"... does not matter it was built on what ammounts to a car platform with minor changes. They bent the rules to make it a light truck so that they could get away with more emissions on thier actaul light trucks.
All these types of test prove very little... your not comparing simlar features/ or equipment... Nor can you get a really sence of a truck over 3 days...you want a real test...put the trucks with the same equipment in a motor pull of large "heavy" construction company( or something similar like mining)and rotate them, til they are worn out. Add up all the cost(as delivered price, gas, repairs and maintance) and see which one cost the less and had the least ammount of down time. Then talk to every one that drove them.
that will tell you which is the better truck.

[77charger]

Its still a piece of crap toyota.I will never own another one for as long as i live.10k is probably overrated to begin with also just like the nissans too as well as other 1/2 ton trucks.
did they make all that hp with fuel additives too??LOL:D

[blown65]

Did you guys miss this or something?
We decided to test four-wheel-drive (4WD), crew cab 1?2-tons, and we asked each of the five manufacturers to deliver a 2007 model set up (with engine, transmission, axle ratio and tire size) to attain the maximum tow rating available.
Place your blame on Dodge then. I personally dont like the Toyota, but it sure sounds like its going to be a good truck. As for MPG with those 4:30's, I think your forgetting it has 6 gears. I dont know what the final drive is in the Toyota, but I bet its similar to the Dodge with the 3.73's.
Comparing them maybe apple to oranges, but going into it knowing its a "towing" test for the trucks should of told them what to get dont ya think.

[ROZ]

Further, it will take a long time before Toyota's per unit profit advantage gives them the gross disposable capital that Ford, with 450-500k F150s and 350-400k Super Duties sold per year, has to spend.
Toyota is the most profitable car company in the world. It's been that way for years.
The company has more disposable capitol than the US government :D
The only trucks that really compete in it's(Tundra) class are the new Silverado and the Titan. I drove both the Titan and Tundra last week... I'll be getting the Tundra Crew Max once it arrives...

[Outnumbered]

The UNIONS are killing the big three, not the truck quality. If Toyota was a domestic truck with a union labor force they would have 0% and rebates too:rolleyes:

[LLGirl]

[
Profit per unit that's like saying the Hemi competes in horsepower. All of the blind allegiance to a product but no one sees enough value to pay for it. Employee pricing, large rebates, 0% all sound like incentive gimicks. The definition of incentive is to make someone do something they wouldn't normally do. Like buy an american car. I beleive that Ford has now mortgaged the entire company to the hill, and GM has continuall lay offs and continues to expand operations in Mexico, if everyone is so loyal, and Ford and GM's system works so well would you cash in your retirement on there stock???? Oh and as for Chrysler Mercedes wants out they are just tired of looking bad.[/QUOTE]
Blind allegiance is exactly what it is! I'm proud to work for Toyota! They make a superior product, and continue to do so, period.

[beaverretriever]

Would you rather have a weak, hot chick or an ugly, strong chick?
Case closed. :D

[cc322]

I think Yota is getting a little ahead of itself with statements like this :confused:
Toyota says, ‘We know more about trucks than Ford’
By: Richard Jensen / BlueOvalBlogs
Yeah, it’s true.
The new Tundra does not have fully boxed rear frame rails. As reported in the USA Today:
Toyota says there’s no need for the extra weight of fully boxed rails on some parts of the frame. Adding that weight would cut into the truck’s payload capacity without improving the ride, handling, safety or durability, the car company contends.
Uh. Yeah.
Toyota, which has YET to sell a competitive fullsize pickup (seeings that you can’t buy the new 2007 Tundra right now), suddenly knows more about truck design than Ford, GM, and DCX (all of which use fully boxed frame rails)?
And, let’s ask another question: Why would fully boxed frame rails decrease payload? Maybe because the powertrain and suspension on the new Tundra has been rigorously tested to a certain GVWR, such that even if you added say 100lbs to the vehicle due to fully boxed frame rails, and this increased your payload by say 300lbs, the whole vehicle would be well past the GVWR it was engineered and tuned around.
My guess is that you are going to be riding along at 10/10ths every time you match the payload and tow ratings on the Tundra. You may not need fully boxed frame rails for 2,000lbs of dirt on a smooth asphalt road in the middle of summer, but I’d like to see those C channels stand up to a few seasons of frost heaves, gravel roads, construction sites, and potholes, with 2,500lbs of dirt in the back.
Ford puts their trucks through the ringer during development and routinely down rate tow and payload capacities. Why? Because they know how their trucks are used. They know their trucks get rode hard and put away wet, they know that many a construction worker is going to guess the payload (and try to turn two trips into one, or three trips into two), and most operators are going to be optimistic about what their trucks can handle.
So, Toyota, I’m sure down at Ford HQ, they are awaiting with bated breath, your next pronouncement on how to design a fullsize pickup truck. Perhaps, Toyota’s truck engineers will soon be informing us that pickups do not need fullsize spares, as they reduce the payload and do not increase safety or durability.

[G-Body]

I saw this posted on another forum and thought it was some interesting info about the toys boxed frame.
I started off my mechanical experience working on trucks. Both consumer light duty trucks, but also medium duty equipment. I was SAE certified, almost finished my diesel certification, and had a metalurgy certificate. So I do have "some" experience here. In addition I do have welding skills and do part time work for my Father in law who owns his own welding business helping him install dock levelers industrial doors and sh*t like that.
Ok, I know we've all seen those Toyota commercials touting the virtues of this new "wonder truck" and how it's the sh*t compared to domestic trucks. Well, I don't know if any of you have attended the auto show circuit, much like here in Chicago.
Well if you haven't had the opportunity, let me help you here. You see, much like their bold commercials, their display at this years' Chicago Auto Show is quite the chest beating seranade. The mistake they made was putting the "guts" of the truck (like you see on the one commercial) out on display. This was a BAD thing Toyota!!
Now, to the untrained consumer, wooed in buy Toyota's brilliant marketing, they wouldn't notice any of these things to the trained eye.
1) The frame. The Tundra's frame is basic GM late 1970 early 1980's technology. It utilizes the standard issue "C" channel frame. Then from the front rail to midway under the passenger section, they "box" it (like GM did) with another "C" section welded in. To top off this stout (haha) frame, All the crossmembers are stamped steel (some very thin stamped steel to boot) that are butt welded to the frame rails. Wholly sh*t! This thing has to flex like a flag in the wind.
By comparison, as you know, GM, then Dodge and now Ford, use HYDROFORMING! The frame is a "boxed" hydroformed rail from the front bumper to rear bumper, with integral hydroformed crossmembers. No welding, no joints, and not made of "stamped steel".
So, which frame do you really want under your rig?

[dmontzsta]

Ford learned to "under-rate" their power slightly after 99, when they had the little Cobra incident. Most Ford vehicles always dyno slighly higher than the estimated power should be (5-10hp more usually) atleast this is the case with the Mustangs. I was also talking to a Ford mechanic and he brought up how Ford under-rates alot, while chevy is notorious for "bumping" the numbers ever so slightly.
At any rate, I would not buy an "import" truck. But, they are coming up and really giving the domestic market a serious run. It is good to see Ford is still the top domestic truck, everything they said about the Ford I was nodding my head to, cause it is so very true.

[ROZ]

I think Yota is getting a little ahead of itself with statements like this :confused:
Toyota says, ‘We know more about trucks than Ford’
By: Richard Jensen / BlueOvalBlogs
Yeah, it’s true.
The new Tundra does not have fully boxed rear frame rails. As reported in the USA Today:
Toyota says there’s no need for the extra weight of fully boxed rails on some parts of the frame. Adding that weight would cut into the truck’s payload capacity without improving the ride, handling, safety or durability, the car company contends.
Uh. Yeah.
Toyota, which has YET to sell a competitive fullsize pickup (seeings that you can’t buy the new 2007 Tundra right now), suddenly knows more about truck design than Ford, GM, and DCX (all of which use fully boxed frame rails)?
And, let’s ask another question: Why would fully boxed frame rails decrease payload? Maybe because the powertrain and suspension on the new Tundra has been rigorously tested to a certain GVWR, such that even if you added say 100lbs to the vehicle due to fully boxed frame rails, and this increased your payload by say 300lbs, the whole vehicle would be well past the GVWR it was engineered and tuned around.
My guess is that you are going to be riding along at 10/10ths every time you match the payload and tow ratings on the Tundra. You may not need fully boxed frame rails for 2,000lbs of dirt on a smooth asphalt road in the middle of summer, but I’d like to see those C channels stand up to a few seasons of frost heaves, gravel roads, construction sites, and potholes, with 2,500lbs of dirt in the back.
Ford puts their trucks through the ringer during development and routinely down rate tow and payload capacities. Why? Because they know how their trucks are used. They know their trucks get rode hard and put away wet, they know that many a construction worker is going to guess the payload (and try to turn two trips into one, or three trips into two), and most operators are going to be optimistic about what their trucks can handle.
So, Toyota, I’m sure down at Ford HQ, they are awaiting with bated breath, your next pronouncement on how to design a fullsize pickup truck. Perhaps, Toyota’s truck engineers will soon be informing us that pickups do not need fullsize spares, as they reduce the payload and do not increase safety or durability.
from a ford forum no less.... Glad to see you got that from a non biased website :D
You wanna talk about getting ahead of themselves? I don't remember which mfg it was, but my pops was doing some audit work for a big wig. The guy flat out tells my pops that they have to destroy the trucks in the add because they mechanically modify the vehicles to do the "amazing feats" for tv shoots.. you know, like put one fullsize truck sideways on the bed of another truck and drive it up a hill of boulders... Glad I didn't try it... :D

[YeLLowBoaT]

from a ford forum no less.... Glad to see you got that from a non biased website :D
You wanna talk about getting ahead of themselves? I don't remember which mfg it was, but my pops was doing some audit work for a big wig. The guy flat out tells my pops that they have to destroy the trucks in the add because they mechanically modify the vehicles to do the "amazing feats" for tv shoots.. you know, like put one fullsize truck sideways on the bed of another truck and drive it up a hill of boulders... Glad I didn't try it... :D
oh you mean like that new toyota commerical... where they had it pull 10klb up a "teater totter" and then have it stop once it tips on a nice steep angle... That always cracks me up. There is not 1 person in thier right mind that would beleave it could actaully do that.

[cc322]

oh you mean like that new toyota commerical... where they had it pull 10klb up a "teater totter" and then have it stop once it tips on a nice steep angle... That always cracks me up. There is not 1 person in thier right mind that would beleave it could actaully do that.
Heres the video, look closely at the behind the sceens footage there is a white f150 and a superduty in there how ironic
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minisite/commercial/tundra_tv1.html

[spectras only]

oh you mean like that new toyota commerical... where they had it pull 10klb up a "teater totter" and then have it stop once it tips on a nice steep angle... That always cracks me up. There is not 1 person in thier right mind that would beleave it could actaully do that.
If that little GM thingy could pull this yacht ,
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/It%20thinks%20BIG.jpg
surely the Tundra could pull the Queen Mary :idea: :) :D

[HighRoller]

Wow. Lots of people are all hurt in the butt about the new Tundra. If it is such a POS, what are you worried about? Nobody will buy it and Toyota will leave the truck market. But everyone knows that won't happen because they've seen what has happened in the car market. I'm a Chevy guy from way back, but unless the big 3 throw the Unions overboard they will be Toyota's bitch very soon.
This is the first attempt by Toyota at competing heads up with them and they did pretty well. Can you imagine how well they will do after 5,7 or 10 years of experience and R&D under their belts? Hell, all they have to do is stay in business and they'll outlast GM. And as for Ford's "strong" truck market, it doesn't matter how many trucks you sell if you still lose money. That's like GM crowing about being #1 in American auto sales the same year they lost 12 billion dollars. They lost money but made up for it in volume!!!!
As far as the "American Made" myth, I see Ford and GM laying off Americans to build plants in China and Mexico. But I see Toyota and Nissan building plants here and employing Americans. If you're sore about losing your auto worker job, thank the unions. They will kill the domestic auto makers the same way they killed domestic steel.

[rivercrazy]

There is a simple reason Toyota only needs to offer one set of rear end gears with their towing package (4.30's). Its because they spend $$$ R&D'ing the new 6 speed tranny and an engine with very flat torque curve. Because of the spread of gears, they don't need to offer like 5-6 different ratios because their engines and tranny's are 25-30 year old designs....
The new toyota 5.7L v8 has a the most and flatest torque curve of all other competing V8's in that size category. 90% of the 401lb ft is available at 2,400rpm.... Pretty impressive

[GHT]

Toyota is GAY...
Just my .02:D

[rivercrazy]

Toyota is GAY...
Just my .02:D
Your gay for saying that!

[Dave C]

Totoya needs a diesel... until then its gay.

[edog_103]

I have a question. Why is toyota bringing this truck into a 1/2 ton market? What ratings do they have to have, to get into the 3/4 ton market? I think if you are trying to build a workhorse, you would go after the 3/4 ton. The 1/2 ton market seems to be more of a light duty truck market. I drive a 2005 Dodge Ram Quad Cad 4x4 with the hemi. I think the tow rating is around 9,000 lbs. 9,000 lbs towing is nice in theory but if I was planning to tow that much weight most of the time I would get the 3/4 ton. At the time I tried to buy a Chevy, but they just wanted to much money for there trucks.

[RT21]

Wow. Lots of people are all hurt in the butt about the new Tundra. If it is such a POS, what are you worried about? Nobody will buy it and Toyota will leave the truck market. But everyone knows that won't happen because they've seen what has happened in the car market. I'm a Chevy guy from way back, but unless the big 3 throw the Unions overboard they will be Toyota's bitch very soon.
This is the first attempt by Toyota at competing heads up with them and they did pretty well. Can you imagine how well they will do after 5,7 or 10 years of experience and R&D under their belts? Hell, all they have to do is stay in business and they'll outlast GM. And as for Ford's "strong" truck market, it doesn't matter how many trucks you sell if you still lose money. That's like GM crowing about being #1 in American auto sales the same year they lost 12 billion dollars. They lost money but made up for it in volume!!!!
As far as the "American Made" myth, I see Ford and GM laying off Americans to build plants in China and Mexico. But I see Toyota and Nissan building plants here and employing Americans. If you're sore about losing your auto worker job, thank the unions. They will kill the domestic auto makers the same way they killed domestic steel.
Once again, if the private sector unions are to blame, then how does Toyota get away with using UAW workers to assemble thier Corrolas?

[rivercrazy]

Many more 1/2 tons are sold annually than 3/4 tons and this is the reason Toyota is targeting this product type. And they have created a new truck that, in many ways, blurrs the line between 1/2 and 3/4 ton.
Solid competition makes everyone better....
I have a question. Why is toyota bringing this truck into a 1/2 ton market? What ratings do they have to have, to get into the 3/4 ton market? I think if you are trying to build a workhorse, you would go after the 3/4 ton. The 1/2 ton market seems to be more of a light duty truck market. I drive a 2005 Dodge Ram Quad Cad 4x4 with the hemi. I think the tow rating is around 9,000 lbs. 9,000 lbs towing is nice in theory but if I was planning to tow that much weight most of the time I would get the 3/4 ton. At the time I tried to buy a Chevy, but they just wanted to much money for there trucks.

[edog_103]

You're right about the competition. It will be interesting to see what the others com back with.

[oldbuck40]

lmao all this test this and test that! i never once heard em talking about how any of the trucks did on a wet steep boat ramp?

[2Driver]

GMC 1500 SIERRA CREW CAB
This is a sweet truck. Our unit was powered by the reworked 6.0L V-8 VortecMAX that kicks out 367 hp and 375 lb.-ft. of torque.
Here’s another vehicle for which axle gear and option package choices are key. ...... delivered with the optional NHT “maximum capacity trailering” suspension instead of the Z71 “offroad” suspension package, and the optional 4.10 axle, the vehicle would have been rated at 10,500 pounds. That’s a 2000-pound difference.
!
This is exactly what I bought from Photoglou. I have to tell you it is awesome. Full size rear doors and 18-19 MPG hwy not towing. 12 MPG towing the Chapparal. I can't be more happy and it's American.

[Boozer]

Don't knock it until you try it.
People fear change and this new Tundra is proof positive that is exactly the case. Everyone is freaking out trying to bash the thing as hard as they can before it's even been made available to the mass market. I'll bet you in 10 years that those who are crying about this new Toyota Tundra will end up being it's biggest fans. You're probably the same guys that 10 years ago said fuel injection was the worst thing to ever happen to the automobile.

[dumbandyoung]

Totoya needs a diesel... until then its gay.
yep!
if its not diesel....its gay!
My grandpa went and bought a Tundra quadcab in 02. ..Hasn't had any problems with it except pulling his deck boat out of the water.(He should've bought a 4x4. ) :p
I personally dont like the truck. I dont like how you sit so close to the front windshield. And how the seats dont go very far back(made for short Japanese man)..lol

[dmontzsta]

Toyota and Nissan both have made quality vehicles for years. The only problems with their trucks, they are still Toyota and Nissan's. :)

[dumbandyoung]

Fords have never been the makers of high HP numbers but rather torque, Ford motors deliver higher torque lower in the rpm range for towing power, thats what gets you going. As where GM delivers HP which will say C-YA in the long run
Agreed!

[twowheeledfish]

Get your facts straight. The Mega Cab is a bigger truck regardless of how far the plastic bumpers stick out on the Toyota. I said WHEELBASE:
Mega Cab Wheelbase=160
Tundra Wheelbase=145
And as far as motors go. The Hemi is hardly a Joke. The torque is huge, second only to the Toyota and the motor flat hauls ass.
Torque/HP
Toyota 381/401
Hemi 345/390
Nissan 5.6 317/385
GM 6.0 367/375
GM 5.3 315/338
Ford 5.4 300/365
I have owned Toyotas, Chevys, Dodges, and they all have pros/cons. But the fact is that gears make a huge diference. Comparing trucks with different gear ratios is apples to oranges. Period.
Absolutely correct. Apples to oranges. This test needs to be done with matching gearing and TIRE SIZE. I have an '00 jeep (lol, yeah a jeep) with an engine that maybe makes a whopping 190hp/220ftlbs at the crank, but it will rip my little 18' boat up a hill because its geared to 4.56 with only 33" tires (well, and it only weighs a couple thousand pounds). My point is (if there is one) that gears make stupid differences in pulling power.