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View Full Version : Boat sales are way up!



grads2112
03-01-2007, 11:21 PM
I guess it's not just my business that is down in the last year.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?D4=1&ViewType=0&&ShowChtBt=Refresh+Chart&DateRangeForm=1&C7=3&ComparisonsForm=1&D5=0&C6=2007&3=0&PeriodType=5&Symbol=FPB&C8=2007&CP=0&PT=5&CE=0&C5=3&C9=0&DisplayForm=1

SOCALDETAIL1
03-02-2007, 12:23 AM
Got this email sent to me from a friend.
I have been reading as of late that boat sales are expected to once again be slower this year due to falling housing prices and a number of other influences yet I see this as an opportunity for detailers!
Why opportunity? The say the happiest two days of a boat owners life is the day they buy their boat and the day the sell their boat yet for those I know that are boating enthusiast they would never part with boat ownership!
If people are concerned about the economy yet they love boating this means a great number of boat owners will not upgrade this year but hold onto their existing boat and if you are a pro detailer this should be music to your ears!
__________________
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
High Performance Auto-Aircraft-Harley-RV Detailing
"Detailers of Air Force One"!

brianthomas
03-02-2007, 04:00 AM
So what can the price of houses possibly do with boating? I built my house 7 years ago so I did not pay what it costs today. That is partially the reason I bought an expensive boat last year. If I had paid more for the house I possibly could not have afforded the boat. But if prices are going down in the housing market would it possibly free up some money for new home owners to put toward a boat?

DCBDaytona
03-02-2007, 06:35 AM
So what can the price of houses possibly do with boating? I built my house 7 years ago so I did not pay what it costs today. That is partially the reason I bought an expensive boat last year. If I had paid more for the house I possibly could not have afforded the boat. But if prices are going down in the housing market would it possibly free up some money for new home owners to put toward a boat?
No. A majority of people buying $100k+ boats are using HELOCs...So as home prices deflate, less boats will be bought.

HocusPocus
03-02-2007, 07:05 AM
No. A majority of people buying $100k+ boats are using HELOCs...So as home prices deflate, less boats will be bought.
thats my thoughts also, i know 2 people who did just that, one bought water toys the other bought toy hauler and sand toys... both are about to loose it all. it does suck, they are good hard working folks but just got caught up in the excitement and got in over their heads. just go look at the traders and such to see all of this stuff for sale, many of them just don't want to sell.. they have to.

DCBDaytona
03-02-2007, 07:17 AM
thats my thoughts also, i know 2 people who did just that, one bought water toys the other bought toy hauler and sand toys... both are about to loose it all. it does suck, they are good hard working folks but just got caught up in the excitement and got in over their heads. just go look at the traders and such to see all of this stuff for sale, many of them just don't want to sell.. they have to.
Moreover, the American Dream of owning a home and eventually owning it free and clear has evaporated as well, especially in Ca. People are refinancing more than ever...most to pay off credit cards, buy boats, dirt toys, cars, etc. It's sad.

widowmaker
03-02-2007, 07:24 AM
Moreover, the American Dream of owning a home and eventually owning it free and clear has evaporated as well, especially in Ca. People are refinancing more than ever...most to pay off credit cards, buy boats, dirt toys, cars, etc. It's sad.
Kinda tough to own anything outright when buying things with an interest only loans........

brianthomas
03-02-2007, 07:33 AM
Whew! Can't quite get my mind around using unrealized house equity to finance a toy! If you sell the house and actually have the money it is a completely different animal. Could this spending of unrealized equity be common enough to make a dent in boat/rv sales? It sounds risky enough that I would think is would be only in isolated incidents where people were just not thinking past tomorrow. I know there are areas where housing values appreciated dastically but common sense says if it goes up very quickly it almost certainly will readjust at some point.
I spent just short of a quarter million on a boat last year and financed part of it but it was not using my house as colaterol, just the boat. Also have the loan value and then some in investment accounts. Took a lot of years of saving to get to the point of being able to do this but for me it was the only sane way. Maybe I'm older than a lot of people in these situations, 45 on Monday.

HocusPocus
03-02-2007, 07:48 AM
Whew! Can't quite get my mind around using unrealized house equity to finance a toy! If you sell the house and actually have the money it is a completely different animal. Could this spending of unrealized equity be common enough to make a dent in boat/rv sales? It sounds risky enough that I would think is would be only in isolated incidents where people were just not thinking past tomorrow. I know there are areas where housing values appreciated dastically but common sense says if it goes up very quickly it almost certainly will readjust at some point.
happy early b-day, i will be 45 on saturday.
i think you may be surprised on how many people used over inflated home values to finance their toys or even buy homes in havasu.
I spent just short of a quarter million on a boat last year and financed part of it but it was not using my house as colaterol, just the boat. Also have the loan value and then some in investment accounts. Took a lot of years of saving to get to the point of being able to do this but for me it was the only sane way. Maybe I'm older than a lot of people in these situations, 45 on Monday.
we are looking at getting a new boat next year but it will be bought like yours, with money we have saved just for it and finance the rest.

DCBDaytona
03-02-2007, 07:49 AM
Whew! Can't quite get my mind around using unrealized house equity to finance a toy! If you sell the house and actually have the money it is a completely different animal. Could this spending of unrealized equity be common enough to make a dent in boat/rv sales? It sounds risky enough that I would think is would be only in isolated incidents where people were just not thinking past tomorrow. I know there are areas where housing values appreciated dastically but common sense says if it goes up very quickly it almost certainly will readjust at some point.
I spent just short of a quarter million on a boat last year and financed part of it but it was not using my house as colaterol, just the boat. Also have the loan value and then some in investment accounts. Took a lot of years of saving to get to the point of being able to do this but for me it was the only sane way. Maybe I'm older than a lot of people in these situations, 45 on Monday.
In areas like SoCal where people have a ton of equity this is the story. 5 years from now people will be hurting...It's simple to evaluate the custom boat market and do an analysis compared to the SoCal housing market boom. Back in 1999-2000, prior to the boom...Very few people, and probably only those who could afford it had a $100k boat. Hell, that was when seeing a DCB was eye watering! Now in 2007 all the equity is built and$100k boats are dime a dozen. People have lost sight and will soon have to reprioritize. Soon enough they'll have to start saving for college tuition and the toys will have to go.

RaceFace
03-02-2007, 09:14 AM
thats my thoughts also, i know 2 people who did just that, one bought water toys the other bought toy hauler and sand toys... both are about to loose it all. it does suck, they are good hard working folks but just got caught up in the excitement and got in over their heads. just go look at the traders and such to see all of this stuff for sale, many of them just don't want to sell.. they have to.
Its definately a "buyers market" for toys that people bought with their HELOC's. I just sold my boat (because I want a bigger one) and am amazed at the prices of used boats out there. These people are taking a hell of a hit on these. The manufacturers have to feel it too with the used boat market so saturated.

Dave C
03-02-2007, 10:02 AM
why in the hell would someone do something so obviously ridiculous as buying a boat with a HELOC.... I don't believe it.... I don't.... ;) ;)

HocusPocus
03-02-2007, 10:12 AM
Its definately a "buyers market" for toys that people bought with their HELOC's. I just sold my boat (because I want a bigger one) and am amazed at the prices of used boats out there. These people are taking a hell of a hit on these. The manufacturers have to feel it too with the used boat market so saturated.
i don't think it will cause the big boat builders much problem this year but its just the start of the saturation in the used boats. many are waiting for the weather to get warmer before listing their boats in hopes that will help sell'em. however the fuel prices this year will probably be higher then last year and with with so many boats already on the market it could make it tougher to move them.

socalmofo
03-02-2007, 10:23 AM
I would bet that 80% of the boats between 50k-100k that are paid for, were paid for by home equity. (Just my guess, could be wrong)
The funniest thing is when someone says they paid cash for it. NO! You took money from your home and are paying interest on it and paying over 30+ years which enables you to give cash to the builder.
It amazes me to hear what some people do for work and still have 100k+ boats.......I make great money and I am in great financial shape and still think my 60k boat is too much money! How do these people sleep at night?

lalhc
03-02-2007, 10:24 AM
I believe it is all the "creative financing" that entices people to purchase things they really shouldn't be investing in. I would never use the equity in my homes to finance items that will not increase in value over time, such as a boat.

DCBDaytona
03-02-2007, 10:30 AM
Even though Im pretty young (only 21) I sorta saw this coming. Thats why I went with the little, cheaper fun boat for now and Im going to save up and when I do have the money all those people that you guys are talking about are going to have to seel those expensive toys and houses for a relitively low price and I plan on positioning myself right there to swoop in and pick them up. :D like I said I may be young..... but Im not stupid.
Young and stupid are too different things...I'm 23, and have seen this coming for a long time.

dumbandyoung
03-02-2007, 12:54 PM
In areas like SoCal where people have a ton of equity this is the story. 5 years from now people will be hurting...It's simple to evaluate the custom boat market and do an analysis compared to the SoCal housing market boom. Back in 1999-2000, prior to the boom...Very few people, and probably only those who could afford it had a $100k boat. Hell, that was when seeing a DCB was eye watering! Now in 2007 all the equity is built and$100k boats are dime a dozen. People have lost sight and will soon have to reprioritize. Soon enough they'll have to start saving for college tuition and the toys will have to go.
Word!

Big Warlock
03-02-2007, 01:02 PM
I am 45 later this year as well.
Finance wise, let me say this. If you can reduce your tax liability to Uncle Sam and use it to purchase an assett then that would be a good thing right? Some debt is good. Especially if you buy something tangible or even income producing. The ability to then create someting with the money you would have spent in taxes is a good thing.
Most boats in the $100K range have certain amenities to allow one to claim the "2nd home" option in their tax planning. Utilizing your home equity to purchase things you are going to buy anyways is also forward thinking as the interest then becomes deductible.
Same basic principle as buying a home. You are going to live someplace and pay money. Better to purchase something that will appreciate and hold value right?
You bet there is alot of creative financing. Some of it makes perfect sense and some does not. But it is what is important to you and your quality of life.
Bottom line is some debt is good. Lots of debt is bad. Many of us believe that you only live once. No one I know believes in the 100 virgins etc. etc story when we die. Thus we live in America and go into debt to buy the things our parents had no chance of having! :D

RaceFace
03-02-2007, 03:54 PM
I am 45 later this year as well.
Finance wise, let me say this. If you can reduce your tax liability to Uncle Sam and use it to purchase an assett then that would be a good thing right? Some debt is good. Especially if you buy something tangible or even income producing. The ability to then create someting with the money you would have spent in taxes is a good thing.
Most boats in the $100K range have certain amenities to allow one to claim the "2nd home" option in their tax planning. Utilizing your home equity to purchase things you are going to buy anyways is also forward thinking as the interest then becomes deductible.
Same basic principle as buying a home. You are going to live someplace and pay money. Better to purchase something that will appreciate and hold value right?
You bet there is alot of creative financing. Some of it makes perfect sense and some does not. But it is what is important to you and your quality of life.
Bottom line is some debt is good. Lots of debt is bad. Many of us believe that you only live once. No one I know believes in the 100 virgins etc. etc story when we die. Thus we live in America and go into debt to buy the things our parents had no chance of having! :D
Amen Warlock! 2 great points....First, keeping money out of Uncle Sams pocket AND the best one is Quality of Life! People that sit on the couch TIVOing everything on TV wouldn't understand. I have several neighbors that have NO intention of getting in the car and driving 5 hours to be in 120 degree heat....and hammer me for doing it. My reply is always "So, what kind of family fun did YOU have with YOUR kids this weekend??" I usually never get a response. Its all about the memories you give your kids...you can't put a price on that. Thats quality of life to me.

SOCALDETAIL1
03-02-2007, 04:34 PM
I am 45 later this year as well.
Finance wise, let me say this. If you can reduce your tax liability to Uncle Sam and use it to purchase an assett then that would be a good thing right? Some debt is good. Especially if you buy something tangible or even income producing. The ability to then create someting with the money you would have spent in taxes is a good thing.
Most boats in the $100K range have certain amenities to allow one to claim the "2nd home" option in their tax planning. Utilizing your home equity to purchase things you are going to buy anyways is also forward thinking as the interest then becomes deductible.
Same basic principle as buying a home. You are going to live someplace and pay money. Better to purchase something that will appreciate and hold value right?
You bet there is alot of creative financing. Some of it makes perfect sense and some does not. But it is what is important to you and your quality of life.
Bottom line is some debt is good. Lots of debt is bad. Many of us believe that you only live once. No one I know believes in the 100 virgins etc. etc story when we die. Thus we live in America and go into debt to buy the things our parents had no chance of having! :D
So how much debt is good? percentage of what you make?

Mandelon
03-02-2007, 04:39 PM
So how much debt is good?
Whatever you owe me.... :D

MBlaster
03-02-2007, 05:05 PM
I could go out today and finance an incredible amount of stuff. But I choose to drive a old motorhome and drive a old boat. I take solice in the fact that my house in socal will be paid for in 8 years and I'll still be very young, and semi retired. My little kids wouldn't know the difference between a 100K boat and a 20K boat. They will remember having fun with their family and thats what counts.

YeLLowBoaT
03-02-2007, 05:08 PM
I. My little kids wouldn't know the difference between a 100K boat and a 20K boat. They will remember having fun with their family and thats what counts.
DIng, ding, ding. We have a winner.
I can't beleave no one has said ppl are buying 100k boats with the profits from selling thier house for $$$$$$ in CA and moved out of state and bought a better house and still had money to burn.

acatitude
03-02-2007, 05:21 PM
all situations are different, but I kinda disagree with having all your equuity in a house sitting there doing nothing. there is no interest rate of return on equity and you cant buy nothin with it. why have your house almost paid off??? why not borrow money on it invest it take the write off and make a couple three % profit on that money.... consider this also.... if you own a house worth 400k and owe 200 on it and another guy has the same house value but owes 375 on it and both are in hard times, which one do you think the bank is going to foreclose on??? yup the guy with more equity, not the one the bank will lose money on. they will try to work with him more so he can keep it...2 cents worth

blown65
03-02-2007, 05:29 PM
all situations are different, but I kinda disagree with having all your equuity in a house sitting there doing nothing. there is no interest rate of return on equity and you cant buy nothin with it. why have your house almost paid off??? why not borrow money on it invest it take the write off and make a couple three % profit on that money.... consider this also.... if you own a house worth 400k and owe 200 on it and another guy has the same house value but owes 375 on it and both are in hard times, which one do you think the bank is going to foreclose on??? yup the guy with more equity, not the one the bank will lose money on. they will try to work with him more so he can keep it...2 cents worth
Problem is borrowing money on your home equity to buy a boat isn't much of an investment. I agree with the rest of what you said though. (even though I only owe a 1/4 of what my home is worth. LOL)

MBlaster
03-02-2007, 05:42 PM
all situations are different, but I kinda disagree with having all your equuity in a house sitting there doing nothing. there is no interest rate of return on equity and you cant buy nothin with it. why have your house almost paid off??? why not borrow money on it invest it take the write off and make a couple three % profit on that money....
Consider the mortgage payment includes interest, but the extra money sent to principal is saving money at the same interest rate as the mortgage. All that equity sitting there isn't doing nothing. It gives me great security and piece of mind. Life can go bad real quick. It's nice to have a safety net. And if opportunity knocks I'll have the $'s to answer.