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View Full Version : So Cal Grocery Store Strike



Rexone
03-03-2007, 02:29 AM
You can vote mutiple categories in the above poll.
In the aftermath of the So Cal Grocery Store Stike a few years ago I'm curious how many changed their buying habits permanently following the strike.
I personally didn't shop and the stores with picketers during the strike primarily because I wasn't into the harassment and indifference to customers from the picketing employees that was widely publicized. During the strike I shopped at other stores including Stater Bros and more frequently Trader Joes (which I rarely shopped at prior to the strike). Now today I shop probably 60-70% from Trader Joes (because they're cheaper on many things and for the most part faster checkout service) than the big names (I discovered this during the strike). Before the strike I shopped almost 100% split between Vons, Ralphs, and Albertsons. Now that split is 30-40% of my total and that's primarily because Trader Joes doesn't have everything, not because I want to shop at the big 3.
Just curious if the strike alienated anyone else or if most returned to their prior shopping routine.

robk
03-03-2007, 02:34 AM
I do a lot of my shopping at Trader Joes and Staters for the same reasons.
Rob

shueman
03-03-2007, 05:48 AM
We shop multiple outlets....have for awhile. The contracts are up again this month....should be interesting.

LHC30Victory
03-03-2007, 06:16 AM
I've been a Staters shopper LONG before the strike ever happened. TJ's is always good for fun stuff and they are close...when will one come to LHC???

phebus
03-03-2007, 06:43 AM
I left the state. :D

Trailer Park Casanova
03-03-2007, 06:50 AM
The workers commited employment suicide with the strike.
We honored the picket line, but while we were in the Starbux a few doors down, all the cars in the lot got their paint jobs key'd including ours.
WallMart superstores seemed to be the main theme for reduced benies for the grocery workers that put the strike in gear.
You can pay good and give good benefits and beat Wall Mart/Sams Club.
We had 3 Sam Clubs in our general metro area, and COSTCO ran them outta business.
Most Costco employees that started with the company are still there.
A Sams Club Employee lasts about 9 months.
Costco employee is paid 40% more, has healthcare not dependant on the taxpayers (read the book "Wall Mart, the high cost of low price"), and customers are far more pleased with COSTCO than Wall Mart/Sams Club.
Wal-Mart vs. CostCo More Facts and Numbers:
Employer contributions to health care each year:
Costco, $5,735
Wal-Mart, $3,500
82 percent of Costco employes are covered by the health plan
Wal-Mart, 47 percent are covered by health plan.
Employee turnover at Wal-Mart is nine times higher than Costco's.
Factoid from BusinessWeek: Costco's profit per employee is $13,647; Wal-Mart's, $11,039.
They grocers coulda worked it all out.
The strike didn't have to happen.

OutCole'd
03-03-2007, 06:59 AM
Rex, thanks for having an option for Djunkie to participate.

Riverless
03-03-2007, 07:09 AM
i was a trader joe's shopper BEFORE the strike. now, everytime i go in there, doesn't matter what time of day, weekday or weekend, it is PACKED. this is really annoying to me, because it wasn't nearly as busy before the strike. the strike definitely increased biz for tj's, which is good for them, but i find myself just running up to my neighborhood von's or stater's because i don't feel like dealing with the crowds at tj's. :(
edit: we are suppose to be getting a tj's in claremont. i am hoping this one won't be as busy as the one in upland, which is where i usually go.

cc322
03-03-2007, 07:12 AM
I do a lot of my shopping at Trader Joes and Staters for the same reasons.
Rob
Exactly what I do now more or less

HocusPocus
03-03-2007, 07:22 AM
we only have one store option here in phelan and thats staters. we do go to costco often for our bigger spending. i do like trader joes but they closest ones are in redlands or lancaster.

JetBoatRich
03-03-2007, 07:22 AM
we were 50/50 on the strike:rolleyes: when they were rude and aggressive, gave me more reason to go to the stores and shop

Screemy1
03-03-2007, 08:05 AM
I went to Vons during the strike becasue it was close to work.... I was amazed at the high quality service I got from the scab workers and management..... made those strikers look stupid.... when the strikers approached me, I talked to them and some of them admitted they hated the strike and felt that they were going to lose in the end by loseing their jobs.... and some did, the rest are just postponing the inevitable..... if you do not like what your employer is doing.... leave, don't strike.... the only winners in strikes is the union..... they still pull a full salary during your strike.....:idea:

Havasu Carrera
03-03-2007, 08:31 AM
Some employees started at Vons 10 plus years ago with a promise of x income in a certain # of years.
Then Vons took that promise away. That sucked badly for those who put 10 years in knowing they would get x amount of money as they climbed that very slow ladder. Vons screwed those employees and its to bad we don't all get together and support those people. (I still shop at vons for little stuff but I drive a extra 200 yards to Staters to do my large shopping. Whats up at Vons with their having only one cashier most of the time?

Screemy1
03-03-2007, 08:42 AM
Some employees started at Vons 10 plus years ago with a promise of x income in a certain # of years.
Then Vons took that promise away. That sucked badly for those who put 10 years in knowing they would get x amount of money as they climbed that very slow ladder. Vons screwed those employees and its to bad we don't all get together and support those people. (I still shop at vons for little stuff but I drive a extra 200 yards to Staters to do my large shopping. Whats up at Vons with their having only one cashier most of the time?
Boo Hoo for them, that is every job in this country.... something propmised... then taken away..... Why should they get so much when all they do is scan, bag, stock shelves.... bake premade recipes.... the butcher has to have some skill, hmmm what else..... People want more money.... get differant job... it is just the way of life.... if you do a job that takes very little skill, don't expect lots of money when another person can do it easily..... High skill jobs = limited amount of people able to do the job = more money..... Please give example on why they have a stressful, dangerous, lots of education required, or hard to find replacement worker JOB..... the companies should do what they can..... it does not take a genius to use a scanner.... but they could use a few training classes on how to change the receipt printer... amazes me on how some get so confused and frustrated with that task.....

djunkie
03-03-2007, 08:52 AM
Rex, thanks for having an option for Djunkie to participate.
I was just thinking the same. And if I keyed any peoples cars on here I apologize since I was out there one day supporting the picketers. :D :D :D

djunkie
03-03-2007, 08:55 AM
I went to Vons during the strike becasue it was close to work.... I was amazed at the high quality service I got from the scab workers and management..... made those strikers look stupid.... when the strikers approached me, I talked to them and some of them admitted they hated the strike and felt that they were going to lose in the end by loseing their jobs.... and some did, the rest are just postponing the inevitable..... if you do not like what your employer is doing.... leave, don't strike.... the only winners in strikes is the union..... they still pull a full salary during your strike.....:idea:
But....... give those scabs a year or 2 and they will be bitching and complaining about the shitty pay, no benefits, etc etc etc. They were nice cause they were glad to be working and didn't care about anything else. Once they get settled in then they start to want it all like the others did.

djunkie
03-03-2007, 08:56 AM
I went to Vons during the strike becasue it was close to work.... I was amazed at the high quality service I got from the scab workers and management..... made those strikers look stupid.... when the strikers approached me, I talked to them and some of them admitted they hated the strike and felt that they were going to lose in the end by loseing their jobs.... and some did, the rest are just postponing the inevitable..... if you do not like what your employer is doing.... leave, don't strike.... the only winners in strikes is the union..... they still pull a full salary during your strike.....:idea:
Not exactly true. Most unions have a reserve fund in times of strikes where they can assist members in need.

djunkie
03-03-2007, 08:58 AM
Some employees started at Vons 10 plus years ago with a promise of x income in a certain # of years.
Then Vons took that promise away. That sucked badly for those who put 10 years in knowing they would get x amount of money as they climbed that very slow ladder. Vons screwed those employees and its to bad we don't all get together and support those people. (I still shop at vons for little stuff but I drive a extra 200 yards to Staters to do my large shopping. Whats up at Vons with their having only one cashier most of the time?
Your in small company here HC. This site is a primarily anti-union site and most could care less about them.

C-2
03-03-2007, 09:02 AM
Wow, it's been like a dream week here on HB.
First a great dog fight, then a short-lived psycho lady episode, and now a strike thread. Whoo Hoo!!!
FAWK Stater Bros, I clench my teeth every time I go in that store. The first thing I look for is the WIC recipient in line....the one with 6 gals of milk, 12 bottles of juice. Besides, 7-11 has as much of a variety.
For the record, it cracks me up when people rag on supermarket employees. It's usually the people without the skillz that bitch about the other people without skillz getting paid too much money for scanning groceries.
Since when is $18hr a lot of money?
The strike did one thing for sure - made customer service even crappier.

roostwear
03-03-2007, 09:04 AM
Doing some long term strategizing before the minions at Rex Marine go out on strike?

Trailer Park Casanova
03-03-2007, 09:07 AM
Wow, it's been like a dream week here on HB.
First a great dog fight, then a short-lived psycho lady episode, and now a strike thread. Whoo Hoo!!!
FAWK Stater Bros, I clench my teeth every time I go in that store. The first thing I look for is the WIC recipient in line....the one with 6 gals of milk, 12 bottles of juice. Besides, 7-11 has as much of a variety.
For the record, it cracks me up when people rag on supermarket employees. It's usually the people without the skillz that bitch about the other people without skillz getting paid too much money for scanning groceries.
Since when is $18hr a lot of money?
The strike did one thing for sure - made customer service even crappier.
Good take.

Screemy1
03-03-2007, 09:30 AM
Wow, it's been like a dream week here on HB.
First a great dog fight, then a short-lived psycho lady episode, and now a strike thread. Whoo Hoo!!!
FAWK Stater Bros, I clench my teeth every time I go in that store. The first thing I look for is the WIC recipient in line....the one with 6 gals of milk, 12 bottles of juice. Besides, 7-11 has as much of a variety.
For the record, it cracks me up when people rag on supermarket employees. It's usually the people without the skillz that bitch about the other people without skillz getting paid too much money for scanning groceries.
Since when is $18hr a lot of money?
The strike did one thing for sure - made customer service even crappier.
18 bucks to scan an item.... yeah that is a little much..... as for bitching because they make more with no skills.... I feel if your bitching about your pay and changes from above.... then go to another job.... why strike.... I am in a union and they do nothing.... as most do.... As for the unions having a fund to help out.... what a joke, I have friends that worked for these stores and had trouble with bills.... the fund was earmarked for people who didn't need it but where friends with the right people....after strike.... she was laid off a year later.... wow that strike accomplished lots.... she finished school while working at another job and now is fine.... no skill = crap pay... they need to quit bitching and get a skill.... if you choose to work there then deal with the crap and quit complaining.... I understand complaining while you look for other employment.... but complaining and sitting around expecting things to change for you is crap..... today work is climb to the top as you jump from tree to tree.... carry your retirment with you in accounts outside of the company you work for.... it is no longer climb the one tree and count on the tree's retirment program for your future.... move to where you are happy.... and plan for retirment yourself...........

djunkie
03-03-2007, 09:44 AM
18 bucks to scan an item.... yeah that is a little much..... as for bitching because they make more with no skills.... I feel if your bitching about your pay and changes from above.... then go to another job.... why strike.... I am in a union and they do nothing.... as most do.... As for the unions having a fund to help out.... what a joke, I have friends that worked for these stores and had trouble with bills.... the fund was earmarked for people who didn't need it but where friends with the right people....after strike.... she was laid off a year later.... wow that strike accomplished lots.... she finished school while working at another job and now is fine.... no skill = crap pay... they need to quit bitching and get a skill.... if you choose to work there then deal with the crap and quit complaining.... I understand complaining while you look for other employment.... but complaining and sitting around expecting things to change for you is crap..... today work is climb to the top as you jump from tree to tree.... carry your retirment with you in accounts outside of the company you work for.... it is no longer climb the one tree and count on the tree's retirment program for your future.... move to where you are happy.... and plan for retirment yourself...........
Sounds like your in a shitty union. :confused: :confused: :idea: :D

Screemy1
03-03-2007, 09:50 AM
Sounds like your in a shitty union. :confused: :confused: :idea: :D
don't you work for the shore????? they are good.... unions work for SKILLED jobs.... takes skill and has danger at the shore....... not the supermarket.... as for my union.... yeah I work at a highschool..... no union is good when it comes to schools.....

C-2
03-03-2007, 09:53 AM
18 bucks to scan an item.... yeah that is a little much..... as for bitching because they make more with no skills.... I feel if your bitching about your pay and changes from above.... then go to another job.... why strike.... I am in a union and they do nothing.... as most do...
Uhhhh, so what's your point. Are you crying about supermarket employees or your own position?
Again, why does it matter to you? If they can get me thru the line a few minutes faster and without attitude, fawk it give them $25 an hour, I could care less. I don't bitch about postal clerks either:idea:

Screemy1
03-03-2007, 10:09 AM
Uhhhh, so what's your point. Are you crying about supermarket employees or your own position?
Again, why does it matter to you? If they can get me thru the line a few minutes faster and without attitude, fawk it give them $25 an hour, I could care less. I don't bitch about postal clerks either:idea:
25 bucks..... that just cost you more.... and if that does not bother you, then this is a wasted arguement...... it is not to hard to grasp, and it does not include my position...... skill = money.... no skill = less money, get a skill if you want more money.... do not strike and cry about it when you work in a position that anybody can do..... look at home depot for example.... I as a customer can check myself out just as easily as using a checkstand with a person..... they are fighting a lost cause..... they will be phased out in the future...... It seems poeple are missing my point..... let's look at a differant view.... a bum sits on the boardwalk begging for money, you might give him a buck or two.... but then you walk a little further and another person has themselves in costume, do a dance, play an instrument, bring a chuckle to yourself or put a smile on your kids face.... you give them a five or more in there jar because they have a talent, a skill which in turn gives them more $$$$...... Now the bum sees the five go in the bucket.... and cries.... hey give me a five, I need it more, I want more.... but I can not sing, dance, whatever..... do you give hime more, no, you tell him to learn a trick.... get a life, earn more by doing something rather then the samee old thing.... A store clerk is not doing anything more then they did years ago.... kinda do less now days with the computer doing the work... they are looked at as doing a good job because they look at your receipt and tell you how much you saved and say your name that was on the receipt when you swiped your card.... wow they aknowledged me by name.... give them a raise.... so that when the company looks at the bottom line.... the self checkout start up costs don't look so high anymore!

HM
03-03-2007, 10:20 AM
We became a stater bros. customer because of the strike. My wife was shopping with a 3 year old and a 1 year old while being pregnant and they thought it was cool to harass her. I got harassed at a Vons by a 10 year old kid of a woman that was picketing and the kid called me a loser. I just said..."atleast I have a job." Then I got into my brand new Jag and they all flipped me the bird and I just smiled - and never went back. Yep....that was the motivation I needed to understand their plight. I'll tell you when I will go back....when the grocery stores bust the unions and the majority of the previous workers no longer work there.
I used to work in the grocery business when I was young (17-19). I started as a box boy, then went to night crew, then to produce with a little checking when it got busy. I couldn't stand the majority of people that worked there as they were a bunch of lazy whining morons, who got paid way too much for scanning bananas. I have NO sympathy for anyone that thinks the way most of these people do. Their days are numbered - they are slowly being replaced by self-checkout stands. I have a cousin who worked in the grocery business his whole life as a meat cutter....and when the union told him to strike, he left the grocery business...for good - he saw the writing on the walls. The only thing he regrets is not leaving that industry sooner.

SHOTKALLIN
03-03-2007, 10:31 AM
Stater Bros has smart management. Alot of the other stores are closing locations. Staters is opnening new ones. The only thing that sucks is Cardenas, Superior, and Fiesta food wharehouses are opening up in all the vacant stores. Thats what i get for living in the ghetto i guess.:D

djunkie
03-03-2007, 10:40 AM
don't you work for the shore????? they are good.... unions work for SKILLED jobs.... takes skill and has danger at the shore....... not the supermarket.... as for my union.... yeah I work at a highschool..... no union is good when it comes to schools.....
Yes I do work in the port. But I was always taught that unions were for workers rights and protection against unfair employer practices.

Screemy1
03-03-2007, 10:44 AM
Yes I do work in the port. But I was always taught that unions were for workers rights and protection against unfair employer practices.
but the stores are only trying to stay in business.... what is unfair about that..... they are not going to have jobs for long when they want so much for doing so little..... the union will not be able to stop when self checkers come through.... they couldn't stop the robots for the auto workers..... unions were for workers rights.... but now they are a little jaded when the union leaders are making astronomical amounts.... they tend to do what is good for them, while making it look like it is for the employees....

djunkie
03-03-2007, 10:44 AM
25 bucks..... that just cost you more.... and if that does not bother you, then this is a wasted arguement...... it is not to hard to grasp, and it does not include my position...... skill = money.... no skill = less money, get a skill if you want more money.... do not strike and cry about it when you work in a position that anybody can do..... look at home depot for example.... I as a customer can check myself out just as easily as using a checkstand with a person..... they are fighting a lost cause..... they will be phased out in the future...... It seems poeple are missing my point..... let's look at a differant view.... a bum sits on the boardwalk begging for money, you might give him a buck or two.... but then you walk a little further and another person has themselves in costume, do a dance, play an instrument, bring a chuckle to yourself or put a smile on your kids face.... you give them a five or more in there jar because they have a talent, a skill which in turn gives them more $$$$...... Now the bum sees the five go in the bucket.... and cries.... hey give me a five, I need it more, I want more.... but I can not sing, dance, whatever..... do you give hime more, no, you tell him to learn a trick.... get a life, earn more by doing something rather then the samee old thing.... A store clerk is not doing anything more then they did years ago.... kinda do less now days with the computer doing the work... they are looked at as doing a good job because they look at your receipt and tell you how much you saved and say your name that was on the receipt when you swiped your card.... wow they aknowledged me by name.... give them a raise.... so that when the company looks at the bottom line.... the self checkout start up costs don't look so high anymore!
Don't get me wrong on this subject. I am 100% for unions if run right. Not saying the union I am in is run 100% right but they fight for whats right. As for the workers, in a way they did step on their own feet. As for skilled or unskilled I don't think that is what a union should be about. If the price of food goes up a bit so that a grocery store employee can afford to support their family than I am for it.
My union gave employment to some of those grocery workers during their strike. Problem was they didn't want to give it up after their strike was over so some sued over it. That left me bitter towards them. As for the reason they were striking, I was for it.

HM
03-03-2007, 10:54 AM
Don't get me wrong on this subject. I am 100% for unions if run right. Not saying the union I am in is run 100% right but they fight for whats right. As for the workers, in a way they did step on their own feet. As for skilled or unskilled I don't think that is what a union should be about. If the price of food goes up a bit so that a grocery store employee can afford to support their family than I am for it.
My union gave employment to some of those grocery workers during their strike. Problem was they didn't want to give it up after their strike was over so some sued over it. That left me bitter towards them. As for the reason they were striking, I was for it.
That type of thinking that we should pay more to for people to afford to feed their families is very flawed and very socialistic. We are in a world economy that is results oriented. If you can't see the writing on the wall and work on getting new skills or ways to bring additional value, not only are your days numbered, but when you finally get the boot, you will be so far behind the curve that catching back up will be nearly impossible. Change is coming, and those that resist change, will lose, and those that embrace change will win. Is the change right or wrong? That is the question that most people don't realize does not matter....because change IS coming. We got 12 million+ illegals that are going to be given amnesty and another 25 million + will be here soon. All of the low to medium skilled jobs will be taken over by people that are happy to work for half the wage. Wrong or right....it is coming. The change is ultimately great for the world because it initiates revolutionary ideas that would not have been born had people not had to worry about change. Everywhere you look in the world you will see people thriving that embrace change and you will see people suffering and complaining where they resist change.

djunkie
03-03-2007, 10:58 AM
That type of thinking that we should pay more to for people to afford to feed their families is very flawed and very socialistic. We are in a world economy that is results oriented. If you can't see the writing on the wall and work on getting new skills or ways to bring additional value, not only are your days numbered, but when you finally get the boot, you will be so far behind the curve that catching back up will be nearly impossible. Change is coming, and those that resist change, will lose, and those that embrace change will win. Is the change right or wrong? That is the question that most people don't realize does not matter....because change IS coming. We got 12 million+ illegals that are going to be given amnesty and another 25 million + will be here soon. All of the low to medium skilled jobs will be taken over by people that are happy to work for half the wage. Wrong or right....it is coming. The change is ultimately great for the world because it initiates revolutionary ideas that would not have been born had people not had to worry about change. Everywhere you look in the world you will see people thriving that embrace change and you will see people suffering and complaining where they resist change.
I wasn't saying that they should be payed 6 figures or anything. I understand educated/skilled people should be payed more if they produce. I just think that with the price of living and the price of everything in general going up so should a workers salary. I agree that if they don't wanna work then they should not be in the position but sometimes even the smallest of pay increases can influence a worker to do his/her job better.

Rexone
03-03-2007, 11:08 AM
In the aftermath of the So Cal Grocery Store Stike a few years ago I'm curious how many changed their buying habits permanently following the strike.
Ah... ok lets have a union and strike argument. :)
After all this is ***boat. :D

lewiville
03-03-2007, 11:16 AM
Not exactly true. Most unions have a reserve fund in times of strikes where they can assist members in need.
The last strike, the union was about to run out of resurve $$$, however it was funny to see that strikers making less $$$ and the multiple presidents of the grocery union still bringing home there $500,000 year salary and bonus's to boot. Just what I was told

HM
03-03-2007, 11:25 AM
I wasn't saying that they should be payed 6 figures or anything. I understand educated/skilled people should be payed more if they produce. I just think that with the price of living and the price of everything in general going up so should a workers salary. I agree that if they don't wanna work then they should not be in the position but sometimes even the smallest of pay increases can influence a worker to do his/her job better.
This is where I disagree...and a lot has to do with being raised with the proper attitude. I don't think people should get paid anymore than a job is worth especially in a global economy where the competition not only is paying only that which the job is worth, they are working on new technologies to signficantly reduce or remove any and all human workers. To try and guilt people into paying more for something not because they brought value, but because they don't want to starve because they are too lazy or too scared to get new skills is not my problem. Now, if someone in a job really brings additional value to a job, then I am more than happy to see them rewarded, but most people who think they do, really are lying to themselves and mistake a job that is neccesary as the job that makes a company profitable. Unions are about as useful as a calculator watch these days, and their only tool is fear that "management" wants to take advantage of them. I don't operate in fear, I thrive in opportunities - which are everywhere...you just have to open your eyes.

lewiville
03-03-2007, 11:26 AM
Yes I do work in the port. But I was always taught that unions were for workers rights and protection against unfair employer practices.
DJ,
I agree with you. The only thing is that things have changed and unions seem like they have turned into the mob. Taking the little guys money ( worker bee's ) and every time they go on strike it makes it worse on there income because when they strike obviously they take a smaller pay. A lot of long time employee's lost there cars and homes because they could not afford
there stuff.

HM
03-03-2007, 11:26 AM
Ah... ok lets have a union and strike argument. :)
After all this is ***boat. :D
Dumbass....why do you think there was a strike? :D

djunkie
03-03-2007, 11:40 AM
Ah... ok lets have a union and strike argument. :)
After all this is ***boat. :D
And to think, in the past I told myself to stay outta these discussions on here. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

djunkie
03-03-2007, 11:44 AM
DJ,
I agree with you. The only thing is that things have changed and unions seem like they have turned into the mob. Taking the little guys money ( worker bee's ) and every time they go on strike it makes it worse on there income because when they strike obviously they take a smaller pay. A lot of long time employee's lost there cars and homes because they could not afford
there stuff.
Yes and no. Not all unions go after pay. In fact some employers offer a higher pay in order to take away other things. Like benefits, retirement, and so on.

djunkie
03-03-2007, 11:47 AM
This is where I disagree...and a lot has to do with being raised with the proper attitude. I don't think people should get paid anymore than a job is worth especially in a global economy where the competition not only is paying only that which the job is worth, they are working on new technologies to signficantly reduce or remove any and all human workers. To try and guilt people into paying more for something not because they brought value, but because they don't want to starve because they are too lazy or too scared to get new skills is not my problem. Now, if someone in a job really brings additional value to a job, then I am more than happy to see them rewarded, but most people who think they do, really are lying to themselves and mistake a job that is neccesary as the job that makes a company profitable. Unions are about as useful as a calculator watch these days, and their only tool is fear that "management" wants to take advantage of them. I don't operate in fear, I thrive in opportunities - which are everywhere...you just have to open your eyes.
Hey agree that if a worker isn't worth a shit then he/she should be gone. Technology is here and its not the workers to blame. People like to say that the workers asking for more money is the cause of automization (sp) in the work place. I don't thinks that true. An employer is gonna look for ways to cut costs no matter what and if a machine does it then thats the way they are gonna go. Funny thing is though in my industry is in our last contract our employer offered more money to take away certain jobs from us. As well as upping 401k and retirement. So far it has kicked them in the ass since their multi million dollar computer systems have been nothing but pieces of shit and slow our job down. Now they have to hire more people to make up for it.

lewiville
03-03-2007, 12:03 PM
Hey agree that if a worker isn't worth a shit then he/she should be gone. Technology is here and its not the workers to blame. People like to say that the workers asking for more money is the cause of automization (sp) in the work place. I don't thinks that true. An employer is gonna look for ways to cut costs no matter what and if a machine does it then thats the way they are gonna go. Funny thing is though in my industry is in our last contract our employer offered more money to take away certain jobs from us. As well as upping 401k and retirement. So far it has kicked them in the ass since their multi million dollar computer systems have been nothing but pieces of shit and slow our job down. Now they have to hire more people to make up for it.
DJ,
good point

HM
03-03-2007, 12:09 PM
Hey agree that if a worker isn't worth a shit then he/she should be gone. Technology is here and its not the workers to blame. People like to say that the workers asking for more money is the cause of automization (sp) in the work place. I don't thinks that true. An employer is gonna look for ways to cut costs no matter what and if a machine does it then thats the way they are gonna go. Funny thing is though in my industry is in our last contract our employer offered more money to take away certain jobs from us. As well as upping 401k and retirement. So far it has kicked them in the ass since their multi million dollar computer systems have been nothing but pieces of shit and slow our job down. Now they have to hire more people to make up for it.
I think we are more or less on the same page. I am not a "company" man either. I worked for a Fortune 500 company and that was as bad as working for the government. It is extremely hard to bring value, and you get people nearly rioting when you do, because you make someone look bad. I worked for UPS and that is where I developed my complete hatred of Unions. I was a guy who was beating his route by 3-4 hours a day, and during christmas, I would beat it by 6 or more hours. The shop steward hated me and told me I made the other guys look bad...because I was willing to kick ass? I was 21 at the time. Then, the "old timers" told me I would "learn" to slow down. I didn't get it....nor did I last much longer than a year....and people thought I was crazy when I quit that job - as that was a good paying fairly secure job. But, I am into opportunity more than I am into security....as I beleive there is no security...and anyone who tells you there is just trying profit on your fear. That is why I went into sales....i knew if I always generated sales, I would be secure as everyone needs someone who can sell.
I realize that I am not average when it comes to drive and ambition. My corporate lawyer asked my wife what it was like being married to a freight train. But, at the same time, I don't think I do anything than look around and see what is coming and try to do things to stay ahead of the change curve - and I think other people like to stick their head in the sand and hope that things don't change, or pay people a lot of money to fight change....while still keeping their head in the sand.

mrs.rvrluvr
03-03-2007, 12:12 PM
i was a trader joe's shopper BEFORE the strike. now, everytime i go in there, doesn't matter what time of day, weekday or weekend, it is PACKED. this is really annoying to me, because it wasn't nearly as busy before the strike. the strike definitely increased biz for tj's, which is good for them, but i find myself just running up to my neighborhood von's or stater's because i don't feel like dealing with the crowds at tj's. :(
edit: we are suppose to be getting a tj's in claremont. i am hoping this one won't be as busy as the one in upland, which is where i usually go.
We did the same thing. We don't have a TJ's in the High Desert, yet. I go down to the one in Upland, it is really busy. Can't wait for the one in Claremont...I grew up there and that city is perfect for TJ's.

boater250s
03-03-2007, 07:26 PM
I think we are more or less on the same page. I am not a "company" man either. I worked for a Fortune 500 company and that was as bad as working for the government. It is extremely hard to bring value, and you get people nearly rioting when you do, because you make someone look bad. I worked for UPS and that is where I developed my complete hatred of Unions. I was a guy who was beating his route by 3-4 hours a day, and during christmas, I would beat it by 6 or more hours. The shop steward hated me and told me I made the other guys look bad...because I was willing to kick ass? I was 21 at the time. Then, the "old timers" told me I would "learn" to slow down. I didn't get it....nor did I last much longer than a year....and people thought I was crazy when I quit that job - as that was a good paying fairly secure job. But, I am into opportunity more than I am into security....as I beleive there is no security...and anyone who tells you there is just trying profit on your fear. That is why I went into sales....i knew if I always generated sales, I would be secure as everyone needs someone who can sell.
I realize that I am not average when it comes to drive and ambition. My corporate lawyer asked my wife what it was like being married to a freight train. But, at the same time, I don't think I do anything than look around and see what is coming and try to do things to stay ahead of the change curve - and I think other people like to stick their head in the sand and hope that things don't change, or pay people a lot of money to fight change....while still keeping their head in the sand.
You sound like you were one great UPS delivery driver. To beat your route by three to four hours or six hours at Christmas time, you can't be doing the job properly. You either came in early, went through your package car which means you worked off the clock or had a large pick-up which had a lot of small packages to boost your route. Management would look the other way because you're making them look good but as soon as you did something wrong like an accident or packages come up missing that's when they would have nailed you. I've been with the company for twenty-two years, and I've never seen someone beat their route by six hours. Not a package driver anymore, yeah the unions do have a problems and I think their main objective is to make money-like any other company. Just my two-cents.

HM
03-03-2007, 07:49 PM
You sound like you were one great UPS delivery driver. To beat your route by three to four hours or six hours at Christmas time, you can't be doing the job properly. You either came in early, went through your package car which means you worked off the clock or had a large pick-up which had a lot of small packages to boost your route. Management would look the other way because you're making them look good but as soon as you did something wrong like an accident or packages come up missing that's when they would have nailed you. I've been with the company for twenty-two years, and I've never seen someone beat their route by six hours. Not a package driver anymore, yeah the unions do have a problems and I think their main objective is to make money-like any other company. Just my two-cents.
Well, I did get audited and popped for no seat belt one time, also got popped for jamming the latch on the sliding door. But, this was back in 1989. My route was in El Cajon in San Diego. I had a route with a lot of COD's with mostly business, very little residential. Only had one claim on the route in which they had a problem with and that was when I did a DR on a condo. It was 11 PM and I noted MCW. They tried to deduct it from my pay, but they needed my signature and I refused. Got put on double secret probation as it was just after my "latch jamming" write up. It was pretty easy to beat routes by 6 hours as they were giving me 20 hours, and I was doing them in 14. Those 20 hour loads were usually the week and a half just before christmas. I worked two christmas seasons (88-89) My non-christmas time days were usually 11 hour loads done in 9 to 9.5. I worked at it. Worked thru my lunches half the time only taking about 30 minute lunches. I ran all day long. And often, I hopped on my truck before clocking in to get a good look at my load...which I got written up for by the shop steward - and I kept doing it anyway. He threatened to fine me, but he was all talk. I was willing to kill it everyday and get paid an extra couple hours I didn't work...and the union considered me the bad guy. Most of the UPS guys today could never beat their routes like that as they got times down to a fine art. I have talked with my UPS guy and he says it is rare for anyone to beat routes....they don't get crazy overtime at christmas.

My Man's Sportin' Wood
03-03-2007, 08:15 PM
As for the unions having a fund to help out.... what a joke, I have friends that worked for these stores and had trouble with bills.... the fund was earmarked for people who didn't need it but where friends with the right people....
You are mistaken. The funds are mailed out to all striking employees as long as they are working the picket lines. Some employees were unable to work the lines and they didn't get it (it wasn't much to get excited about anyway). Probably the reason your friends had trouble with their bills, it was not equal to their weekly pay.

Baja Big Dog
03-03-2007, 09:17 PM
Rex, thanks for having an option for Djunkie to participate.
Perfect

RT21
03-03-2007, 09:54 PM
That type of thinking that we should pay more to for people to afford to feed their families is very flawed and very socialistic. We are in a world economy that is results oriented. If you can't see the writing on the wall and work on getting new skills or ways to bring additional value, not only are your days numbered, but when you finally get the boot, you will be so far behind the curve that catching back up will be nearly impossible. Change is coming, and those that resist change, will lose, and those that embrace change will win. Is the change right or wrong? That is the question that most people don't realize does not matter....because change IS coming. We got 12 million+ illegals that are going to be given amnesty and another 25 million + will be here soon. All of the low to medium skilled jobs will be taken over by people that are happy to work for half the wage. Wrong or right....it is coming. The change is ultimately great for the world because it initiates revolutionary ideas that would not have been born had people not had to worry about change. Everywhere you look in the world you will see people thriving that embrace change and you will see people suffering and complaining where they resist change.
Anytime you have to throw out illegals in our economy to win an argument like this. You have already lost. And "world economy"? you sound just like our fearless leader GW. Look how well that is working out for the good ol US of A.

HM
03-03-2007, 10:21 PM
Anytime you have to throw out illegals in our economy to win an argument like this. You have already lost. And "world economy"? you sound just like our fearless leader GW. Look how well that is working out for the good ol US of A.
I never said I was happy about it...I just said it was coming.
My personal opinion on illegals is that they should NEVER have citizenship if they came here illegally. Also, if they need to get rid of the law that allows people to be U.S. citizens just because they were born here....in order to be a citizen when you are born here, both your parents must be citizens...we are the only country that allows this...and the law was written for the slaves that were freed - not to be a loop hole for illegals to have citizens for kids.
And if you don't realize that we are in a world economy, you are just ignorant. Go ahead, put your head a little deeper in the sand and click your heels together and say there is no place like home.

scooooter7
03-03-2007, 10:36 PM
I thought the workers were locked out by their employers.

a catered life
03-05-2007, 07:57 AM
i was a real mix of 2 and 3...because of the closeness of so many of those stores it hard to not shop there for small runs but for big shopping we have changed to the costo warehouse and some other discount stores because of the overall price difference...hell where else can you get 3 packs of bacon, a car battery, camping supplies, a hot dog, pizza for the kids, tools, flowers, dvd's,and free samples under one roof

Baja Big Dog
03-05-2007, 08:41 AM
The last strike, the union was about to run out of resurve $$$, however it was funny to see that strikers making less $$$ and the multiple presidents of the grocery union still bringing home there $500,000 year salary and bonus's to boot. Just what I was told
What the fock do you think the union managment make????

Baja Big Dog
03-05-2007, 09:03 AM
This is where I disagree...and a lot has to do with being raised with the proper attitude. I don't think people should get paid anymore than a job is worth especially in a global economy where the competition not only is paying only that which the job is worth, they are working on new technologies to signficantly reduce or remove any and all human workers. To try and guilt people into paying more for something not because they brought value, but because they don't want to starve because they are too lazy or too scared to get new skills is not my problem. Now, if someone in a job really brings additional value to a job, then I am more than happy to see them rewarded, but most people who think they do, really are lying to themselves and mistake a job that is neccesary as the job that makes a company profitable. Unions are about as useful as a calculator watch these days, and their only tool is fear that "management" wants to take advantage of them. I don't operate in fear, I thrive in opportunities - which are everywhere...you just have to open your eyes.
Wow Holy...reading my mind is normally a pretty easy thing to do, but you hit on the head..I was also brought up in the best union known to man...the DAD union! I watched him through the years, never called in sick, never complained about his job or bosses. You learned to get up go to work and get paid for what you do.
Someone mentioned if $18 dollars an hour was alot of money.....its all relavent, which is where the unions play a large roll, $18 dollars to scan a package, and the worst case tell the customer to press OK on the ATM keypad??? It is my opinion that this is a very high paying job for the "skills" involved. I got into a heated discussion at one of the stores during the strike with a very UNION guy argueing the above point, and he couldnt answer with anything other that do yo want your ass kicked.....He was really pissed when I declined his invitaion because I refused to have a battle of intelligence with an unarmed man!!
DJ mentioned that some union guys may be bad apples, let me ask you this...if you saw a union buddy or brother as you call them do something against company policy would you tell on him???? Regardless of how you answer this here I think I know the answer.
I deal with the Teamsters, and I get the biggest kick out watching how they spend more time getting guys off the screw up than they do trying to improve on their jobs. I see the same thing that was brought up about the UPS guy...dont excell or you will make the other guys look bad, and they will make life misribale for you.

Biglue
03-05-2007, 09:32 AM
I worked for Lucky's back in the early 90's. I was in the union there. At the time they were basically just guaranteeing you your minimum 16 hours of work per week. I don't think unions are in it for their members, they're in it as a business. Then there is the "guidelines" as far as being able to measure productivity through out employees. Some how the stats that measure productivity are obnoxiously easy targets. You get a young hungry kid who tries to bust his ass to get somewhere, they get the "slow down" talk. Such as HM was saying with his UPS stint.
Then there dealing with the POS that hide behind their union reps. The guys that aren't worth keeping, they don't care about what they produce, no pride in what they do. Yet we have to keep them employed because of some fees he pays someone else. At the end of the day those guys cost more money that the guys out producing them in the company.
In the past unions were a good thing with all the exploiting of laborers that went on. Now there is laws in place, in some cases WAY TOO MANY laws to protect employees.

C-2
03-05-2007, 10:12 AM
I don’t know what fawking planet you guys are on – service is pitiful at the markets and only getting worse.
What wage is fair? Oh, wait, the one they are being paid now WHICH IS WHY SERVICE SUCKS AND THEY CAN’T KEEP EMPLOYEES.
Let’s go ahead and beat it down some more….. that makes a lot of sense. :hammer2: :hammer2:

Trailer Park Casanova
03-05-2007, 10:16 AM
i was a real mix of 2 and 3...because of the closeness of so many of those stores it hard to not shop there for small runs but for big shopping we have changed to the costo warehouse and some other discount stores because of the overall price difference...hell where else can you get 3 packs of bacon, a car battery, camping supplies, a hot dog, pizza for the kids, tools, flowers, dvd's,and free samples under one roof
Yep, a fun days adventure.

Ziggy
03-05-2007, 12:32 PM
We have a Grocery Outlet store the same distance from us as Albertson. Generally the wife will get as much as she can at the outlet that makes sense and get the other stuff at Trader Joes, Boneys(aka Henrys), Walmart or Albertson.
Many items she buys bulk at Sam's Club also.
So yes, we have changed the shopping habit. It basically was just Abertsons before. It was right at the last strike when this Albertsons by us had moved from an older facility to a brand new huge location that has a Starbucks, Video rental and other ammenities within its doors.
Overall I think they do fine biz but I still remember the looks and words that were thrown at us by some Strikers that now take our money at the register. Forgiven but not forgotten.

Trailer Park Casanova
03-05-2007, 01:09 PM
I was a regular at Albertsons.
Word traveled through the ranks it's sold and the employees are jumping ship.
Lot's of punks & thugs work their now.
Service, attitude, selection,, all gone.

djunkie
03-05-2007, 01:19 PM
DJ mentioned that some union guys may be bad apples, let me ask you this...if you saw a union buddy or brother as you call them do something against company policy would you tell on him???? Regardless of how you answer this here I think I know the answer.
First of all don't say you know what I think cause you have NO clue. You don't know me one bit. I have on many cases called people out for not doing their job. I was raised a worker and when I am at work I work hard. Unfortunately you can't always control other peoples work habits.

Mrs. Bordsmnj
03-05-2007, 01:33 PM
I was a Ralph's shopper until the strike. We did not cross the picket lines and shopped at Stater Bros. which to me is a crap hole store. After the strike, the Ralph's by our house closed down so now I shop at Von's and they are really fabulous. I guess I never really thought about the purpose of the strike after it was over. Owell! :D
P.S. the husband is a union electrician. ;)
And no, I have no point! :D

Rexone
03-26-2007, 06:01 PM
You can vote mutiple categories in the above poll.
In the aftermath of the So Cal Grocery Store Stike a few years ago I'm curious how many changed their buying habits permanently following the strike.
I personally didn't shop and the stores with picketers during the strike primarily because I wasn't into the harassment and indifference to customers from the picketing employees that was widely publicized. During the strike I shopped at other stores including Stater Bros and more frequently Trader Joes (which I rarely shopped at prior to the strike). Now today I shop probably 60-70% from Trader Joes (because they're cheaper on many things and for the most part faster checkout service) than the big names (I discovered this during the strike). Before the strike I shopped almost 100% split between Vons, Ralphs, and Albertsons. Now that split is 30-40% of my total and that's primarily because Trader Joes doesn't have everything, not because I want to shop at the big 3.
Just curious if the strike alienated anyone else or if most returned to their prior shopping routine.
Any more comments or votes on my original question above rather than the union arguments? Just wondering in light of the possible occurance of the next strike on the near horizon.

C-2
03-26-2007, 06:17 PM
I’m still trying to figure out who everybody is pissed at – the Union, the checkers, or the companies?
Too me, I think it’s just a matter of time before the large convenient stores sell or close up shop and go home. Then we’ll be stuck with 3rd world country-type markets. Nice.
And of course they are voting to strike – half the union is now 2nd tier employees who, of course, want more money; and are otherwise too stewpid to even know the damage a strike inflicts on their own damn business.
Where is Rio, he is always good at helping us out with these things….

Rexone
03-26-2007, 06:20 PM
Where is Rio, he is always good at helping us out with these things….
He's prolly hauling a load of illegally picked produce to Vegas. ;)

Wheeler
03-26-2007, 06:35 PM
Well, I did get audited and popped for no seat belt one time, also got popped for jamming the latch on the sliding door. But, this was back in 1989. My route was in El Cajon in San Diego. I had a route with a lot of COD's with mostly business, very little residential. Only had one claim on the route in which they had a problem with and that was when I did a DR on a condo. It was 11 PM and I noted MCW. They tried to deduct it from my pay, but they needed my signature and I refused. Got put on double secret probation as it was just after my "latch jamming" write up. It was pretty easy to beat routes by 6 hours as they were giving me 20 hours, and I was doing them in 14. Those 20 hour loads were usually the week and a half just before christmas. I worked two christmas seasons (88-89) My non-christmas time days were usually 11 hour loads done in 9 to 9.5. I worked at it. Worked thru my lunches half the time only taking about 30 minute lunches. I ran all day long. And often, I hopped on my truck before clocking in to get a good look at my load...which I got written up for by the shop steward - and I kept doing it anyway. He threatened to fine me, but he was all talk. I was willing to kill it everyday and get paid an extra couple hours I didn't work...and the union considered me the bad guy. Most of the UPS guys today could never beat their routes like that as they got times down to a fine art. I have talked with my UPS guy and he says it is rare for anyone to beat routes....they don't get crazy overtime at christmas.
Sounds like, you were the employee, that any boss would love to have, too bad, the slackers tried to hold you back.

Wheeler
03-26-2007, 06:47 PM
I started shopping TJ's, at the Fullerton store in 84', I started with Stater Bros. in 96' because it was close to the house, then finally, TJ's opened the Yorba Linda store.
As I recall, the strike was with Von's, Albertsons and Ralph's, locked out there employees.

scooooter7
03-26-2007, 06:58 PM
I started shopping TJ's, at the Fullerton store in 84', I started with Stater Bros. in 96' because it was close to the house, then finally, TJ's opened the Yorba Linda store.
As I recall, the strike was with Von's, Albertsons and Ralph's, locked out there employees.
Stater Bro's has been one of the best Pro Labor companies for a long time. Whatever proposal comes up by the union they just agree to it to keep employee loyalty. It's mainly Safeway and Albertson's that want to take away from past agreements.
Should not be a strike this time around. But the workers have to take a strike vote so the joint council will give them approval, which is just leverage to negotiate with the corporations. Two tier system for benefits stinks, as does seperate pay schedules.

Wheeler
03-26-2007, 07:20 PM
Stater Bro's has been one of the best Pro Labor companies for a long time. Whatever proposal comes up by the union they just agree to it to keep employee loyalty. It's mainly Safeway and Albertson's that want to take away from past agreements.
Should not be a strike this time around. But the workers have to take a strike vote so the joint council will give them approval, which is just leverage to negotiate with the corporations. Two tier system for benefits stinks, as does seperate pay schedules.
What impressed me at Stater Bros. was, when the lines got long, the store director would jump in a check out line and help out, real team work.

Havasu Carrera
03-26-2007, 07:55 PM
Boo Hoo for them, that is every job in this country.... something propmised... then taken away..... Why should they get so much when all they do is scan, bag, stock shelves.... bake premade recipes.... the butcher has to have some skill, hmmm what else..... People want more money.... get differant job... it is just the way of life.... if you do a job that takes very little skill, don't expect lots of money when another person can do it easily..... High skill jobs = limited amount of people able to do the job = more money..... Please give example on why they have a stressful, dangerous, lots of education required, or hard to find replacement worker JOB..... the companies should do what they can..... it does not take a genius to use a scanner.... but they could use a few training classes on how to change the receipt printer... amazes me on how some get so confused and frustrated with that task.....
When my wife was applying with different employers at about age 16 they told her that (without getting further education) she would be making x amount of money in 15 years. She chose that career based on that and the ability to change locations and stability and insurance.
Now the employer took ALL of it away. I guess you agree that there is NO reason to keep your word. MY word stands and I guess thats my downfall. My employees, friends and family know I have Integrity and security. You sir SEEM to me to be without. Someone asked about my business. Yes its small.
By MY choice. But its 14 years old and still has the same name. UNION?!! :D :D Your cracking me up there pal. NO union here. I just think if you make a promise it should be kept. My grandfather told me that. It made sense. HE and MEN like him Built this country. And now you and everyone else can hide behind the loop holes he may have left. But its still HIS country your lucky enough to HIDE behind. OH great do I gotta give my adress and phone # out again? :confused:

Havasu Carrera
03-26-2007, 08:10 PM
And to think, in the past I told myself to stay outta these discussions on here. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I second that. I just stated my HUMBLE opinion and WHAMMO!! Next think I know I will be duking it out with some 30 year old punk in the middle of my family vacation. You gotta wonder why we subject ourselves to this.:idea:

lalhc
03-26-2007, 08:17 PM
I have always shopped at Stater Bros. There was one nearby where I grew up and it is the only store where I live now.

shrek
03-26-2007, 08:20 PM
I just stopped going through the checkstands.......I ONLY go through the self-serve computers now........That supports the store, and lessens the amount of POS Union crybabies that they need.
If you dont like your job/pay/benefits........GO FIND A NEW JOB!
Shrek

Havasu Carrera
03-26-2007, 09:16 PM
Welcome ms crybaby.

djunkie
03-26-2007, 10:32 PM
I just stopped going through the checkstands.......I ONLY go through the self-serve computers now........That supports the store, and lessens the amount of POS Union crybabies that they need.
If you dont like your job/pay/benefits........GO FIND A NEW JOB!
Shrek
I love my UNION job. :D :D

Rexone
03-27-2007, 01:20 AM
I’m still trying to figure out who everybody is pissed at – the Union, the checkers, or the companies?
I think the astute consumer should take issue with all 3, after all don't these businesses exist with the end result targeting the consumer's money as their reward?
Unions, the companies, and the employees all lose sight of that when they allow or participate in strikes. I'm not a union fan but regardless of that there's plenty of blame to go around with regards to the last strike. The one that pissed me off the most I guess because it was the most visible and possibly the most shortsighted were the striking employees being rude and in some cases abusive to customers. Do I go back and spend money with someone who is rude to me or my family, keys the side of my car, etc etc...? Not.

Rexone
03-27-2007, 02:08 PM
Damn I can't even get a union argument going. You guys are weak. :D

Havasu1986
03-27-2007, 02:13 PM
Damn I can't even get a union argument going. You guys are weak. :D
Were still working and it isn't break time yet.:D

Rexone
03-27-2007, 02:29 PM
Were still working and it isn't break time yet.:D
Yes I can see that. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/732cyberguy.gif
:rolleyes:

Havasu1986
03-27-2007, 02:31 PM
Yes I can see that. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/732cyberguy.gif
:rolleyes:
I'm in sales. No time clock for me.:)

Waist Deep
03-27-2007, 02:47 PM
Tell me why the unions benefit anyone but the big cheese. I say they're a thing of the past.
Hmmm, could be why the automakers have been struggling and continue to do so.
I believe I read Toyota is preparing to leave the states because of the costs of doing biz with the unions in place.
I could probably install a headlamp for less than $45.00 per hour with 8 hours guaranteed.
Oh, but the unions are skilled labor. If theyre so skilled, whats the reason for recalls?
Dont blame it on the parts people, because you can guarantee theyre union too.
LIVE BETTER, WORK