A Mechanical Mystery-VW style.

[Flyinbowtie]

Three weeks ago I was buzzing along at about 35 MPH in 3rd gear, in my '65 VW Beetle. Without warning, it acted like I had turned the key off or it had a blockage in the fuel filter. I had to slow to first gear, and the thing was bucking and shuddering. fortunatley I was near my destination, so I shut her down and coasted into my buddies driveway. A brief inspection found no obvious stuff, but the engine (a 1776cc, otherwise stock right down to the exhaust) was idling on less than 4 holes and had a ticking sound on the drivers bank. Taking no chances, I had it towed home. I popped the left rocker cover off, and saw that the #4 intake valve was sucked, the spring was loaded and the rocker arm was about 1/2 inch from the tip of the valve. I could pry the spring further, opening the valve more, but it would not return to the closed position.The pushrod was laying in the bottom of it's passage, which i.d.'ed the source of the tick. I figured bent valve contacted piston and holed it, so I just closed her up and walked away. My banker tells me this isn't the time to get into it.
Yesterday, both of my boys were available, and the mystery got the best of us. They pulled the engine for me since I can't do that shiznit no more. We got it up onto a stand, and began pulling it down. When I got the drivers intake manifold off, above #3 & #4, just for giggles I put the flashlight into the intake port to eyball the valve. Imagine my surpirse when I saw the head of a bolt staring back at me from under the valve.:jawdrop:
We grabbed a magnet, pushed the valve open and pulled the bolt out. The valvespring returned to it's relaxed position, more or less. The bolt is about 1/2 inch long. It has 8.8 stamped on it, and has a 10mm head on it. It it larger than 10-32, but smaller than 1/4 inch. All of the threads are pounded flat, and the head looks like it has been sanded taking the edges off of the head on the gripping surfaces.
The #4 exhaust port has shiny chunks of metal imbedded in the walls, visible against the black of carbon deposits. Probaby piston material.:rolleyes: This engine has not been disassembled in several years. There is an operational air cleaner that is over a year old. The carb hasn't been exposed since I bought the car almost two years and 4k ago. This bolt could not have entered the intake tract any sooner than two years and 4k ago. No bolts were missing anywhere along the intake tract. We did a cold, static leakdown on the engine and there is no evidence of a hole in the piston at this point, the valve seat is obviously junk.
Where the hell did this bolt come from, and could it have been rattling around in that manifold/cylinder head/combustion chamber for over 2 years 4k?
Even though my sons did all the real work, I overdid it this weekend messing with this thing, my back is killing me, and I am gonna wait until a buddy who is into these things can come by later next week to pull the heads for me and try to figure this out. I've played with engines all my life, and never seen anything like this before.
Obviously, the cases are gonna have to be split and at least a freshening is in order, depending on what we find perhaps a whole new enchilada.
Any thoughts?
I'll letcha all know what we find.
"Zippy" is gonna be parked for awhile":(

[robk]

If it had been bouncing around in there all that time, leave it to an air-cooled vdub to run anway :D
I'll be watching this thread, because I'd love to know where it came from too...
Rob

[Kindsvater Flat]

Hmmm. Sounds like a good excuse for a big bore. Don't forget to shim the cylinders to make it pump gas friendly.

[RaceFace]

Damn! I was reading your post....I'm somewhat of a VW geek...but its been years. Damn! You win! Oil pickup bolt? Half that motor has those bolts in it. My wheels are turning but too many beers under the belt tonight.....will try back in the morning. Sorry.

[Konabrent]

I had the same thing in my old Dodge motorhome, the previous owner did a valve job and dropped a bolt down one of the intake ports ( he didn't realize it I guess) anyway, it rattled around the in intake port until it was small enough to wedge between the valve and seat....valve head snapped off and took a self guided tour through the engine...400 miles from home. Decided to drive it til it dropped, damn if the thing didn't get me and the kids home. Took 14 quarts of oil and 3 gallons of coolant but we made it!

[Oldsquirt]

We grabbed a magnet, pushed the valve open and pulled the bolt out. The valvespring returned to it's relaxed position, more or less. The bolt is about 1/2 inch long. It has 8.8 stamped on it, and has a 10mm head on it. It it larger than 10-32, but smaller than 1/4 inch. All of the threads are pounded flat, and the head looks like it has been sanded taking the edges off of the head on the gripping surfaces.
You just described the abundantly common on a VW, 6mm bolt. They are often used instead of the screws that hold the sheet metal to the motor, as well as other places in the engine compartment.
Is the air cleaner aftermarket and how does it attach to the carb?
Obviously, the cases are gonna have to be split and at least a freshening is in order, depending on what we find perhaps a whole new enchilada.
Any thoughts?
No need to split the case to change a piston. Pull the head. Slide that side's cylinder barrels off. You now have access to the piston pin and could change just that one if you wanted, and could get one that matched. Of course if there has been any cam/lifter damage you will be going all the way in.

[Flyinbowtie]

Bone stock a/c on a bone stock 34 PICT carb.
The a/c clamps to the carb throat, and two clips lock the top down. It is an airbath VW unit with a paper element in it.
I discovered this before the tins were pulled, so I watched as they came off, the only bolts that were MIA were two that bolt the bottom tin to the side of the case on the thermostat riser side, opposite of the scene of the crime.
Oldsquirt, if my luck runs true to form, I'll be a-splittin the cases. Unless I fall into some money and can order up a crate 1835...which ain't likely. I'll be driving the truck for awhile, methinks.
If I can split it, and everything looks okay, maybe we'll slip some new bearings into it, reseal it (it leaks like a, well, a VW) then I am thinking maybe we'll up it from 1776 to 1835, and reconfig the carbs. I don't want to kill the MPG though, so I dunno...
I can't spell anymore, I'm going ta bed...

[JB in so cal]

PM Boatcop. He's put together a few and his website has a vee dub tab. He may know a thing or three...

[wsuwrhr]

Yea what he said.
I love VW's.
I have a 2332 cc(84X94) in my 65 Baja.
Brian
No need to split the case to change a piston. Pull the head. Slide that side's cylinder barrels off. You now have access to the piston pin and could change just that one if you wanted, and could get one that matched. Of course if there has been any cam/lifter damage you will be going all the way in.

[jbone]

I'm guessing that the bolt was dropped in the carb opening when is was put back together. Probably one of the many tin bolts or one of the bolts that holds the generator to the cooler housing or coil, etc. The guy probably looked for it for a while and decided to move on.
I'd say it sat in the center part of the intake manifold for some time. Since the manifold is horizontal until it reaches the drivers bank manifold, it could have taken a long time to finally make its way over there.
The fact that you only put 4k on your 65 bug in 2 yrs tells me that you baby it. No hard turns or off roading that would have speed up the movement of the bolt.
I bet you could just throw a stock assembled head and push rod on that bad boy and be on your way.
Good luck,
J

[v-drive]

I'm guessing that the bolt was dropped in the carb opening when is was put back together. Probably one of the many tin bolts or one of the bolts that holds the generator to the cooler housing or coil, etc. The guy probably looked for it for a while and decided to move on.
I'd say it sat in the center part of the intake manifold for some time. Since the manifold is horizontal until it reaches the drivers bank manifold, it could have taken a long time to finally make its way over there.
The fact that you only put 4k on your 65 bug in 2 yrs tells me that you baby it. No hard turns or off roading that would have speed up the movement of the bolt.
I bet you could just throw a stock assembled head and push rod on that bad boy and be on your way.
Good luck,
J
Ditto that. God damn I love these old vw stories.I would love to find a early convertable ...v-drive

[Flyinbowtie]

Ditto that. God damn I love these old vw stories.I would love to find a early convertable ...v-drive
The car is primarily my summer get-around cruiser, I drive it every once in a while in the winter to keep it happy.
After sleeping on it for a night, I think you guys are right about the bolt-in-the-manifold theory. We are going to split the cases next weekend. It might be overkill, but I just want to make sure I don't have any metal chunks floating around. I'll post up what we find for all you VW freaks...
v-drive if you really want to find a car, check out www.thesamba.com. It is a huge Air-Cooled VW website, and there are lots of cars in the classified ads.
Just don't blame me if it winds up costing you some bucks.:D

[BrianB]

Pull the head and inspect the piston and barrel,maybe repair the valve seat ?
Back on the road for min $$$$
If you do opt for the rebuild send the crank and rods into Rimco to be checked.Make sure that old crank is still straight.....In in engine that is.
Good Luck

[wsuwrhr]

Unnecessary.
We are going to split the cases next weekend. It might be overkill, but I just want to make sure I don't have any metal chunks floating around. I'll post up what we find for all you VW freaks...

[Flyinbowtie]

Unnecessary.
Perhaps. When I bought the car I was told the engine had, "around 50k on it"
It leaks oil, I don't like that, and opening it up to make sure things are right, and maybe slip some new bearings into it & resealing it up now, while i have it out, will eliminate yanking it again to work on it later on, hopefully.

[wsuwrhr]

OK, a little different now. I thought YOU put the motor in. Makes more sense now to check out what you have since you are halfway there.
Most VW leaks I have fixed come from:
Improperly sealed barrels: machined surfaces of block or barrel jacked up, poor sealant or sealant got oily when assembled, LOOSE head studs.
Leaky pushrod tubes: bent, holes poked into the tubes, cheap seals that got hard, pushrod tubes not "expanded" enough on a stroker motor.
Cork Valve cover seals that got hard.
Oil "pan" bolts loose.
Even though there is no gasket, the cases themselves don't normally leak.
Use "gaska-cinch" for the case halves and pushrod tube seals. Works everytime.
My VW's never leaked.
Brian
Perhaps. When I bought the car I was told the engine had, "around 50k on it"
It leaks oil, I don't like that, and opening it up to make sure things are right, and maybe slip some new bearings into it & resealing it up now, while i have it out, will eliminate yanking it again to work on it later on, hopefully.

[wsuwrhr]

Too bad you are so far away. I would love to help out.
Gotta keep the old ones on the road so noone forgets about them.
Post up some pictures.
Brian

[Flyinbowtie]

Brian;
Responded to your pm, and I'll try to get some pics up, on the wrong computer right now...

[wsuwrhr]

Brian;
Responded to your pm, and I'll try to get some pics up, on the wrong computer right now...
Got it, Like I said, call anytime. I can help out with whatever you need.
Brian

[rrrr]

Got it, Like I said, call anytime. I can help out with whatever you need.
Brian
Gotta love HB......