Appraisal Question in Bullhead City

[Wmc]

My friend purchased her home about 1.5-2 years ago for $285,000. They currently owe $228,000. According to Zillow.com it is worth only $232,000. Did the market over there go that soft???
Thansk, Wendi

[Havasu1986]

How accurate is Zillow. My house in Y.L. says $875k and Havi at $315K.:)

[Jyruiz]

Zillow is not very accurate, but the market has gotten soft.

[Wmc]

How accurate is Zillow. My house in Y.L. says $875k and Havi at $315K.:)
I've been told zillow is about 50% accurate. It goes both ways. But if it is accurate they've lost $53,000.

[Wmc]

can anyone pull a property profile or automated valuation for me??

[Big Kahunaa]

i bought 2 years ago for 142,500 and just got appraised last week at 180,000 and some change

[DILLIGAF]

Pay the $275 or whatever and get a proper appraisal done.

[Big Kahunaa]

Pay the $275 or whatever and get a proper appraisal done.
375$ is what i paid last week

[C-2]

I can pull you some 1st American comps/MLS info....kind of a jailhouse BPO if you will. I will be back on later, gotta go get the rugrat. :)

[Outnumbered]

Zillow works well in massive cookie-cutter neighborhoods of tract homes. Bad in areas where homes are custom, semi-custom, etc. Havasu/BHC would fall into the latter=Zillow no good.
As far as appraisals go, unfortunately, there are a lot of dumb-asses and lazy-asses out there. So your results may vary. You could have three people come out and get three different opinions. The guy who does his job correctly will include listings and pending sales on his reports in addition to three recent closed sales. The listings/pendings are not required but are a must in today's market IMO since things are changing. Closed sales from October will meet most lender requirements but are really not too indicative of what is going on today.
(example: same model closed in Oct for $400k but another identical model is listed a few doors down for $380K now for 3 months and has not sold. Appraiser "A" ignors listing and calls it $400k. Appraiser "B" uses the listing and a few sales from Feb 07 and calls it $375K).
This is how some appraisers are inflating values in order to get more work from not-so-ethical lenders. Most of these crooks will be out of business when the house of cards comes down over the next few years.

[DILLIGAF]

375$ is what i paid last week
Knew it was somewhere in that vacinity. Make them actually DO the appraisal and not some BS drive by. They tried that on me on the last couple of homes and I made them come back, measure and the whole shot. It was my BH home I had them come back on

[Outnumbered]

Knew it was somewhere in that vacinity. Make them actually DO the appraisal and not some BS drive by. They tried that on me on the last couple of homes and I made them come back, measure and the whole shot.
The lender program dictates the type of appraisal, not the appraiser. "Drive-bys" run about $275 and "fulls" or "interiors" run about $375.

[DILLIGAF]

The lender program dictates the type of appraisal, not the appraiser. "Drive-bys" run about $275 and "fulls" or "interiors" run about $375.
Got ya.....

[SummitKarl]

you have to watch the appraisal thing...it varies allot
lets say you want to refi....and you have a certain number you need to hit..sure enough they will find away to comp it up to that number... is that what you could sell the house for...NO!!!!...you can sell it for what the market will bare which right now will be less than most appraisals
if your appraisal is more than 30 days old it's more than likely invalid in this market..
just from I see going on out here.. your friends bought just before the peak of this current swing at 285k....if they have done nothing take 20% off or 231k is most likely what it would be able to be sold for if it were listed today
so I totally agree with the 232k selling price,
but I bet you could still get a 260k+ appraisal for refi or HELOC:rolleyes:

[HM]

(example: same model closed in Oct for $400k but another identical model is listed a few doors down for $380K now for 3 months and has not sold. Appraiser "A" ignors listing and calls it $400k. Appraiser "B" uses the listing and a few sales from Feb 07 and calls it $375K).
.
Listings don't affect appraisals/value. I know that the majority of Real Estate people seem to think it does, but the lenders are only concerned about what actually sold.
Zillow is offering some new bells and whistles. They now show homes that are currently for sale and the listing price. They also show homes that people have gone onto Zillow and put in a "Wish" price. Meaning, they are not selling, but if someone came along....the "Wish" price would buy it. Zillow is what it is, but many times, they have more current information on the property than the title companies do, especially newer neighbor hoods. Eventually, Zillow will become more and more accurate as it will have the history on a home and what it sold in comparison to other homes, so when values rise and fall, they can adjust accordingly. I also forsee Zillow getting ahold of actual appraisals and inputing that data. It is far from perfect, but remember, these guys basically perfected internet travel and there is a LOT of money behind Zillow. The lending/banking institutions are backing it as well as they would love to remove the variable of actual appraisals. You can also adjust the price of your home on Zillow by adding upgrades, square footage, and "View" to the description.

[Outnumbered]

you have to watch the appraisal thing...it varies allot
lets say you want to refi....and you have a certain number you need to hit..sure enough they will find away to comp it up to that number... is that what you could sell the house for...NO!!!!...you can sell it for what the market will bare which right now will be less than most appraisals
if your appraisal is more than 30 days old it's more than likely invalid in this market..
just from I see going on out here.. your friends bought just before the peak of this current swing at 285k....if they have done nothing take 20% off or 231k is most likely what it would be able to be sold for if it were listed today
so I totally agree with the 232k selling price,
but I bet you could still get a 260k+ appraisal for refi or HELOC:rolleyes:
Not all appraiser work this way, see my post above. But yes, there are some crooks out there and you can see how they have affected many of the subprime lenders (dropping like flies) since subprime loans are qualified on equity, not credit.

[Outnumbered]

Listings don't affect appraisals/value. I know that the majority of Real Estate people seem to think it does, but the lenders are only concerned about what actually sold.
Are you an appraiser? You have no clue what you are talking about. Just because they are not required now does not mean they should not be considered. How can a property be worth $400k when the same model is available at $380k next door???????????? Sure, it can appraise for $400k but this is not ethical and it happens all the time.
For you noobs in the biz, you don't remember the days in the early/mid-1990's when lenders required listings on the appraisals. This was done to prevent the very thing in the example I sited above. Mark my words, the days of requiring lisitngs on the appraisals again are right around the corner. The belt is tightening.

[HM]

you have to watch the appraisal thing...it varies allot
lets say you want to refi....and you have a certain number you need to hit..sure enough they will find away to comp it up to that number... is that what you could sell the house for...NO!!!!...you can sell it for what the market will bare which right now will be less than most appraisals
if your appraisal is more than 30 days old it's more than likely invalid in this market..
just from I see going on out here.. your friends bought just before the peak of this current swing at 285k....if they have done nothing take 20% off or 231k is most likely what it would be able to be sold for if it were listed today
so I totally agree with the 232k selling price,
but I bet you could still get a 260k+ appraisal for refi or HELOC:rolleyes:
The appraisals are getting reigned in right now. I have an honest appraiser...and he races for Lavey. :D He doesn't know, but one of my lenders cut one of his appraisal by 20% - happens to be a lender known for slashing appraisals but I thought we had a solid appraisal as my appraiser had come in 10% less than what the owner thought it was. We changed lenders and it flew right thru the next lender as it was a solid appraisal.

[3 daytona`s]

My friend purchased her home about 1.5-2 years ago for $285,000. They currently owe $228,000. According to Zillow.com it is worth only $232,000. Did the market over there go that soft???
Thansk, Wendi
I have talked to several realtors and candidates in todays election here.I will say the general consensus is this is going to continue to slide at least another year and all agree it does not matter what "ANYTHING " is valued at -it is worth what the guy across the table will give you for it.There were properties that were so overpriced and someone made the error of purchasing have two choices suck up and sell or hang in there it will come back but WHEN?

[H20 Toie]

yep i sold my house yesterday and zillow shows it at $805k it sold for $670

[SummitKarl]

Not all appraiser work this way, see my post above. But yes, there are some crooks out there and you can see how they have affected many of the subprime lenders (dropping like flies) since subprime loans are qualified on equity, not credit.
I fully agree with you...good and bad guys out there, the sad part is many people believe that equity is something to borrow against...definetly not!!! with the market at this point...although I am fairly sure the worst is over, there are so many out there that HELOC'd or whatever against over inflated appraisals and are now upside down on their house....you can't fault the appraiser or the lender for this....the blame lays solely with the borrowers lack of responsibility to themselves

[HM]

Are you an appraiser? You have no clue what you are talking about.
Yep, I am a dumb ass. :D You must be a realtor! The definition of value of a home is supposed to represent both a willing seller and willing buyer. Listings are only wishes. Also, the laws have changed dramatically around appraisals since the 80's. Welcome to the 21st Century. Bathrooms are back and to the right.

[Outnumbered]

Yep, I am a dumb ass. :D You must be a realtor! The definition of value of a home is supposed to represent both a willing seller and willing buyer. Listings are only wishes. Also, the laws have changed dramatically around appraisals since the 80's. Welcome to the 21st Century. Bathrooms are back and to the right.
Read my posts. I'm not talking about using listings as the only comps. And I am surely not talking about the high lisitngs. We both agree they don't mean shit. I'm talking about the realistic listings that have been on the market for several months and still not sold. The ones that are 10-25% less than the three closed sales from 6 months ago. Lenders used to, and will again, require listings on appraisals IN ADDITION TO the closed sales.

[CA Stu]

yep i sold my house yesterday and zillow shows it at $805k it sold for $670
Should have sold it to Zillow, zilly.
Thanks
Ca Stu

[HM]

Read my posts. I'm not talking about using listings as the only comps. And I am surely not talking about the high lisitngs. We both agree they don't mean shit. I'm talking about the realistic listings that have been on the market for several months and still not sold. The ones that are 25% less than the three closed sales from 6 months ago. Lenders used to, and will again, require listings on appraisals IN ADDITION TO the closed sales.
I was told by an old timer(he was the 2nd generation of 3 generations of appraisers in his family) that the use of listinga will not come back because it was regulated out in CA after the last burst. So, perhaps in AZ, it is still legal? Or this "old timer" was full of shit. Now that would be something...someone in the real estate business who is full of shit. I know, the probabilty of that happening is not even imaginable. :D

[SummitKarl]

The appraisals are getting reigned in right now. I have an honest appraiser...and he races for Lavey. :D He doesn't know, but one of my lenders cut one of his appraisal by 20% - happens to be a lender known for slashing appraisals but I thought we had a solid appraisal as my appraiser had come in 10% less than what the owner thought it was. We changed lenders and it flew right thru the next lender as it was a solid appraisal.
I hope the gap tightens up a bit. I had a real tough time explaining the difference to my neighbor that NEEDS to sell his house RIGHT NOW!!!! that the $255k appraisal he borrowed 90% against the other month and the avg of the 3 comps that sold in the area for the $180's this month......but ..but Karl it says it's worth $255k...SK<<<<<<<:rolleyes: :hammer2: oh well I tried.
So...HM how long does it take a bank to process a REPO and how much lower of a price could I expect from the bank.....I mean do you think the bank will bargain on a house that would sell for in the $180's and the bank has a $235k note to settle

[CA Stu]

I mean do you think the bank will bargain on a house that would sell for in the $180's and the bank has a $235k note to settle
Do they have a choice?
Thanks
CA Stu

[HM]

So...HM how long does it take a bank to process a REPO and how much lower of a price could I expect from the bank.....I mean do you think the bank will bargain on a house that would sell for in the $180's and the bank has a $235k note to settle
Are you talking the sale of a home that has already been foreclosed on? Varies by lender. I am working on a shortsale purchase. Home valued at $350,000 - bank is owed $325,000 and my buyer is offering $240,000. The banks wants to sell, but the owner is having second thoughts....the owner is pissed that someone is getting such a good deal because they are in trouble, so, they are thinking of letting it just foreclose. But, the bank wants this deal to close in two weeks and is only accepting offers from people who have cash or have a fully underwritten loan approval. We sent over an underwritten conditional loan approval as we are #2 in line and hate to do a bunch of work to find out they took the first offer. But again, this is a short sale, so the faster the better for the lender.
I have a buddy who picks up Fannie Mae and Feddie Mac foreclosures, and he closes on those in like 2-3 weeks. But he uses cash and hard money for those because he only buys them for 40-50 cents on the dollar. And, he buys them outside of CA. He puts out hundreds of bids each month, but usually only picks up a property every couple months. He likes using hard money because then he doesn't have to inspect them, the hard money people go look at it, and if they are good with it, he is good with it. Anyone who uses hard money knows what I am talking about.
Anyone going to the hardmoney workshop in Vegas this month? I am thinking of going as I don't know much about the hard money guys and we are entering a market where the use of hard money would be really really convenient.

[Outnumbered]

I was told by an old timer(he was the 2nd generation of 3 generations of appraisers in his family) that the use of listinga will not come back because it was regulated out in CA after the last burst. So, perhaps in AZ, it is still legal? Or this "old timer" was full of shit. Now that would be something...someone in the real estate business who is full of shit. I know, the probabilty of that happening is not even imaginable. :D
You are confused. I'm not talking about using listings as the ONLY comps (read my posts). I'm talking as a supplement (comps 4-6). And again, I'm talking about competitively priced listings, not the $100k over market variety.
They are not "regulated out" in California, my crew uses listings/pendings everyday. The form software even has a place for them now that never used to be there back in the 1990's. This was added at the request of the appraisers.
I'm licensed in AZ since 2004 and in CA since 1992 and still run a biz in So Cal (1992 is when they started licensing. Before 1992 anyone could appraise). I started in the biz in 1989.
What your old timer is talking about is using listings as the ONLY comps, without closed sales. Appraisal standards and ethics are national/federal regulations, they are not state specific. The only differences from state to state are the licensing requirements and board management.

[HM]

You are confused. I'm not talking about using listings as the ONLY comps (read my posts). I'm talking as a supplement (comps 4-6). And again, I'm talking about competitively priced listings, not the $100k over market variety.
They are not "regulated out" in California, my crew uses listings/pendings everyday. The form software even has a place for them now that never used to be there back in the 1990's. This was added at the request of the appraisers.
I'm licensed in AZ since 2004 and in CA since 1992 and still run a biz in So Cal (1992 is when they started licensing. Before 1992 anyone could appraise). I started in the biz in 1989.
What your old timer is talking about is using listings as the ONLY comps, without closed sales. Appraisal standards and ethics are national/federal regulations, they are not state specific. The only differences from state to state are the licensing requirements and board management.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain that. :D
Wouldn't hurt if you laughed at my jokes now would it?
BTW - How people determine what their profession should be in the real estate industry.
Good With People bad with numbers: Real Estate Agent
Good with people good with numbers: Mortgage
Good with numbers bad with people: Appraiser
That is not entirely true, because the majorty of mortgage peole have no clue on the numbers - they just look smart next to real estate agents. :D

[River918]

My parents bought there three years ago for 190K and got it appraised for 270K a few months ago...Not a bad investment... (I thought they were crazy to pay 190 in Bullhead, but it all worked out)...I just wish I could get them to sell and move to Havi so I could have a place to stay, but moms likes the casinos too much.....:D

[Waist Deep]

We bought our model in Fox Creek a year ago for 470K and it could be sold easily for 560K right now. Already had offers on it.
I think it's picking up, not dropping off.

[Mandelon]

The appraisals are getting reigned in right now. I have an honest appraiser...and he races for Lavey. :D He doesn't know, but one of my lenders cut one of his appraisal by 20% - happens to be a lender known for slashing appraisals but I thought we had a solid appraisal as my appraiser had come in 10% less than what the owner thought it was. We changed lenders and it flew right thru the next lender as it was a solid appraisal.
They must have two appraisers racing boats then???? :D
Call some local realtors and ask their opinions on value. That'd be...free......

[C-2]

and we are entering a market where the use of hard money would be really really convenient.
Ya think?
Hard money and Vegas...who wooda thought, lol
I saw the breaking knee caps module for continuing education credits, I was thinking about checking that out.

[Mandelon]

Are you talking the sale of a home that has already been foreclosed on? Varies by lender. I am working on a shortsale purchase. Home valued at $350,000 - bank is owed $325,000 and my buyer is offering $240,000. The banks wants to sell, but the owner is having second thoughts....the owner is pissed that someone is getting such a good deal because they are in trouble, so, they are thinking of letting it just foreclose. But, the bank wants this deal to close in two weeks and is only accepting offers from people who have cash or have a fully underwritten loan approval. We sent over an underwritten conditional loan approval as we are #2 in line and hate to do a bunch of work to find out they took the first offer. But again, this is a short sale, so the faster the better for the lender.
.
does the seller know he is going to have to pay income tax on the mortgage relief??? :confused:
I am not seeing any banks sell repos for pennies on the dollar, unless its 98 or99 pennies. Sure values are coming down, but i haven't seen any real bargains yet. Too make money flipping you need to be minimum 50K under market.....

[HM]

does the seller know he is going to have to pay income tax on the mortgage relief??? :confused:
I am not seeing any banks sell repos for pennies on the dollar, unless its 98 or99 pennies. Sure values are coming down, but i haven't seen any real bargains yet. Too make money flipping you need to be minimum 50K under market.....
The seller is aware - but they could face the same problem if the property sells for less than owed after foreclosure as well.
Pennies on the dollar doesn't happen a lot in CA. My buddies last Fannie Mae foreclosure purchase was in Detroit - $95,000 for a home the hard money people gave a value of $205,000 - Fannie Mae had it listed at $230,000. He avoids CA as there are too many amateurs still involved. He was trying to do pre-foreclosure stuff in CA and then he found out about the 2 year look back and said no thank you.

[DILLIGAF]

We bought our model in Fox Creek a year ago for 470K and it could be sold easily for 560K right now. Already had offers on it.
I think it's picking up, not dropping off.
You made $90K in one year at Fox Creek? That surprises me but of course I will take your word for it. How big of a garage do you have? I assume it is an RV garage? Pool, etc?

[Waist Deep]

I'm just saying that's what was offered to us last month. We own a model, but Brookfield is leasing it back from us until next April, which is covering our mortgage.
I didn't expect that, but it did happen.
Tom, you gonna be there at the end of the month?

[plaster dave]

I appreciate you taking the time to explain that. :D
Wouldn't hurt if you laughed at my jokes now would it?
BTW - How people determine what their profession should be in the real estate industry.
Good With People bad with numbers: Real Estate Agent
Good with people good with numbers: Mortgage
Good with numbers bad with people: Appraiser
That is not entirely true, because the majorty of mortgage peole have no clue on the numbers - they just look smart next to real estate agents. :D
I will laugh at your jokes.

[DILLIGAF]

I'm just saying that's what was offered to us last month. We own a model, but Brookfield is leasing it back from us until next April, which is covering our mortgage.
I didn't expect that, but it did happen.
Tom, you gonna be there at the end of the month?
Sounds like you got a nice place out there.
I am going to be out this weekend after a few days in Havasu. Be on the water at least Sunday and possibly Saturday.
I am sure I will be heading out at every opportunity now as the weather is warming so I would say the odds are pretty good that I will be there at the end of the month. I love this time of year on the water.

[Big Kahunaa]

My parents bought there three years ago for 190K and got it appraised for 270K a few months ago...Not a bad investment... (I thought they were crazy to pay 190 in Bullhead, but it all worked out)...I just wish I could get them to sell and move to Havi so I could have a place to stay, but moms likes the casinos too much.....:D
it was a fight to find my house in the 140's we made out okay lot is 80x120 the house is in the 1300sqft range garage is a two car but 27ft deep and i have marina access