Hourly Employee Overtime Question

[Wizard29]

My company has several hourly employees that punch in and out on a time clock every day. The employees punch in and out around their scheduled times (within a few minutes), but often they will have slightly more than 8 hours in a day, usually 5 or 6 minutes maximum. Over the course of a week or a month those minutes add up, especially when you spread it out over as many employees as we have.
We have a payroll company (who collects their fee based on a percentage of our total payroll) that tells us we must pay the employee overtime for each minute over eight hours. Based on the calculations of some weekly averages, this is costing us close to $15,000 a year in overtime. Works out pretty well for the payroll company who gets their percentage of an extra $15,000.
I have heard that employers are required to compensate hourly employees overtime for each increment of 15 minutes worked. As an example, an employee who is supposed to be off at 3PM works until 3:20PM would get paid for the extra 15 minute period of overtime, but not the extra 5 minutes beyond the 15. If that employee worked until 3:30PM, then they would be paid for a full 30 minutes of overtime.
The 15 minute rule thing sounds reasonable to me, but is it correct? I have a couple of HR sources I am checking with, but I wanted to see if anybody here knows. If the 15 minute rule is not correct, what is?

[abraman1326]

I've heard it's the 15 mon rule as well. Always rounded, say if someone got off at 3:07, no OT, but at 3:08, 15 mins of overtime. Good luck and let us know. This is an interesting subject to be up to date on...
BRA

[wsuwrhr]

Sounds like you need to set some ground rules with the payroll company.
AE used electronic timeclocks and also Paychex do their payroll.
They were pretty anal about clocking in no more than 15 min before the shift started and no later than 15 minutes after the shift ended.
My company has several hourly employees that punch in and out on a time clock every day. The employees punch in and out around their scheduled times (within a few minutes), but often they will have slightly more than 8 hours in a day, usually 5 or 6 minutes maximum. Over the course of a week or a month those minutes add up, especially when you spread it out over as many employees as we have.
We have a payroll company (who collects their fee based on a percentage of our total payroll) that tells us we must pay the employee overtime for each minute over eight hours. Based on the calculations of some weekly averages, this is costing us close to $15,000 a year in overtime. Works out pretty well for the payroll company who gets their percentage of an extra $15,000.
I have heard that employers are required to compensate hourly employees overtime for each increment of 15 minutes worked. As an example, an employee who is supposed to be off at 3PM works until 3:20PM would get paid for the extra 15 minute period of overtime, but not the extra 5 minutes beyond the 15. If that employee worked until 3:30PM, then they would be paid for a full 30 minutes of overtime.
The 15 minute rule thing sounds reasonable to me, but is it correct? I have a couple of HR sources I am checking with, but I wanted to see if anybody here knows. If the 15 minute rule is not correct, what is?

[Wizard29]

So you split the 15 minutes? My impression is that the 15 minutes wasn't earned until the full 15 minutes was worked. In other words, an employee who is off duty at 3:14 would not be paid 15 minutes of overtime where the employee who actually worked until 3:15 would.
No?

[Kilrtoy]

Payroll is usually covered under an mou/contract
we do it in 6 minutes,
BUT ME PERSONALLY
I never put in a slip unless it is an hour,
I guess im not chicken shit about a few minutes....

[pixilatedpussy]

My company has several hourly employees that punch in and out on a time clock every day. The employees punch in and out around their scheduled times (within a few minutes), but often they will have slightly more than 8 hours in a day, usually 5 or 6 minutes maximum. Over the course of a week or a month those minutes add up, especially when you spread it out over as many employees as we have.
We have a payroll company (who collects their fee based on a percentage of our total payroll) that tells us we must pay the employee overtime for each minute over eight hours. Based on the calculations of some weekly averages, this is costing us close to $15,000 a year in overtime. Works out pretty well for the payroll company who gets their percentage of an extra $15,000.
I have heard that employers are required to compensate hourly employees overtime for each increment of 15 minutes worked. As an example, an employee who is supposed to be off at 3PM works until 3:20PM would get paid for the extra 15 minute period of overtime, but not the extra 5 minutes beyond the 15. If that employee worked until 3:30PM, then they would be paid for a full 30 minutes of overtime.
The 15 minute rule thing sounds reasonable to me, but is it correct? I have a couple of HR sources I am checking with, but I wanted to see if anybody here knows. If the 15 minute rule is not correct, what is?
I have always done my payroll according to the 15 min rule as well. Just out of curiousity...what payroll company earn a percentage??? Ours is strictly a flat rate. Goes by how many employees & a check cutting fee, as well as a tax prep fee. Very minimal. Sounds like you need to look for a new company!

[pixilatedpussy]

So you split the 15 minutes? My impression is that the 15 minutes wasn't earned until the full 15 minutes was worked. In other words, an employee who is off duty at 3:14 would not be paid 15 minutes of overtime where the employee who actually worked until 3:15 would.
No?
Its ticky tack...generally I give my employees the 15 even if it is 10 or 11 mins...so on & so forth. A normal person would nt care about the extra minute! If they did then they would have worked it!

[HM]

Where is Rinda? :D

[Biglue]

In the past we have rounded up or down to the nearest 1/4 hour at the 7 1/2 minute mark. That way it's a give and take situation. Just don't let the employees know that, they will figure it out.

[HavasuHome]

We always rounded up or down according to the 7.5 min rule of thumb.

[Wizard29]

I have always done my payroll according to the 15 min rule as well..... Sounds like you need to look for a new company!
We are.
How do you apply the 15 minute rule in you company though? Do you split the 15 minutes at 7.5 minutes or do you make it the all-or-nothing sort of deal?

[Mrs. Bordsmnj]

Where is Rinda? :D
Here I am. Just finished payroll. :D
I go by the 15 minutes rule and pretty much anything over 8 minutes, I pay the 15 minutes. Our handbook outlines the 15 minute rule but if it didn't, I would say you are required to pay anything over 8 hours.
And I think you need a new payroll company. If you are paying based on total payroll and not per check, you are getting ripped off.
:D

[jbone]

This may be a stupid question, but are time cards still necessary?
Can't you just put them on a schedule and pay accordingly. Any changes to the schedule would require a slip signed by the supervisor authorizing the overtime, or documenting late comers.
This would deal with the few minutes it takes to clock out costing lots of $$$.
J

[Mrs. Bordsmnj]

We are.
How do you apply the 15 minute rule in you company though? Do you split the 15 minutes at 7.5 minutes or do you make it the all-or-nothing sort of deal?
All or nothing. If they worked 7 minutes over, nothing, if they worked 8 or more minutes over, I pay them for 15 minutes.

[YeLLowBoaT]

my understand is you don't have to pay OT until they ether have 40 hours a week or work longer then a 12 hour shift... I know supervizors don't fall under this rule.

[pixilatedpussy]

my understand is you don't have to pay OT until they ether have 40 hours a week or work longer then a 12 hour shift... I know supervizors don't fall under this rule.
Full time employees...yes that is corrct. But part timers like to milk the clock!;)

[pixilatedpussy]

We are.
How do you apply the 15 minute rule in you company though? Do you split the 15 minutes at 7.5 minutes or do you make it the all-or-nothing sort of deal?
8 mins;)

[Boatcop]

I believe that FLSA requires OT for anything over 40 hours a week. Part-time or full time. Less than 40 hours a week, no OT. The more than 8 hours per day doesn't come into effect.
Whether it's 8 hours x 5 days, 10 hours x 4 days, 3 12s and a 4, etc.
You shoud pay your part timers for actual hours. As long as it's less than 40 hours per 7 day normal work week. No overtime.
Some situations allow the hours spread out over 28 days, to allow for creative scheduling, but it's generally based on a Sun-Sat 7 day, 40 hour work week.
Unless there's some union contract, state or local regulation, or company policy that says otherwise.

[mickeyfinn]

I believe the flsa outlines the 7.5min rule and 15min increments. States can approve more generous rules, but not less. (10 minute increments would be moreenerous). You can instruct your employees that any overtime must be approved before working it, however if they work it anyway you must pay them. You at that point may start disciplinary procedures for not getting approval, some states do not require any form of progessive discipline and you may terminate immediately if you like.

[Ziggy]

Seems to me that California reverted back to the 8 hrs per day and then OT, vs the 40 per week then OT.
It gets a little trickier with techs that get paid by flatrate hrs. vs. punch clock hrs.

[Tom Brown]

A company that has so many employees it has a time clock and yet worries about $15K is a company that sucks donkey cocks.

[Rexone]

Seems to me that California reverted back to the 8 hrs per day and then OT, vs the 40 per week then OT.
It gets a little trickier with techs that get paid by flatrate hrs. vs. punch clock hrs.
You are correct on the 8 hr OT in Ca.

[Jrocket]

So you dont pay for the 15 minutes they wrok over everyday?
How about if they are 14 minutes late everyday? Bet that would leave a mark huh.

[sangervdrive]

http://practicaljokeonline.com/winner.html
When I worked hourly I only stayed late when I was told to. I was scared shitless of my boss and made damn sure I wasn't standing at the clock waiting for 3:30 or 5:30. Thats the way it should be..

[Boatcop]

http://practicaljoke - online.com/winner.html
When I worked hourly I only stayed late when I was told to. I was scared shitless of my boss and made damn sure I wasn't standing at the clock waiting for 3:30 or 5:30. Thats the way it should be..
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Protection
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* Number of Sites: 0 - 2
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Damage
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Distribution
* Distribution Level: Low
Writeup By: Mircea Ciubotariu

[BadKachina]

Last real job with a time card I had paid in tenths. So every six minutes would be another tenth. What I would do is make sure that anyone who works overtime gets an authorization from a supervisor. If they don't have an initial by their overtime then they don't get paid for it. It'll cut down on the bs and people stalling those extra fifteen minutes to clock out everyday.
Also if you have multiple employees, it's cheaper to work less employees an hour or two of overtime everyday than to hire an extra man. You should be operating at 4 or 5 hours overtime per person to accomplish the workload. If not you have a bunch of people stretching their day to make 8 hours. ;)

[Seadog]

Where I work, you clock in or out within 5 minutes of the assigned time. Any deviations must be approved. We work on the concept of less than 7 minutes, your time. More than 8 minutes, you're paid. We went to the hard adn fast rule about clocking in within 5 minutes because we had a guy clock in a half hour early and then go to the break room to make coffe and eat breakfast. There is always one guy.
The thing I hate, is it used to be anything over 8 hours, or weekends were considered OT. Now, if you take any vacation or sick leave, you will lose OT status for that number of hours. For example, I worked 25 hours OT last weekend. Wednesday, my Dad needed me to go to the state capital for a function and I had to take 5 hours off. So now, I get paid for 40 hours regular pay, 5 hours vacation and only 20 hours OT.

[Wizard29]

A company that has so many employees it has a time clock and yet worries about $15K is a company that sucks donkey cocks.
Oh, Tom. Always the proverbial wealth of information.

[Mr. C]

How do they take away ot hours from a previous week, Do you get paid every two weeks, our am i just reading this wrong? Isn't a work week sun - sat?
The thing I hate, is it used to be anything over 8 hours, or weekends were considered OT. Now, if you take any vacation or sick leave, you will lose OT status for that number of hours. For example, I worked 25 hours OT last weekend. Wednesday, my Dad needed me to go to the state capital for a function and I had to take 5 hours off. So now, I get paid for 40 hours regular pay, 5 hours vacation and only 20 hours OT.

[Wizard29]

So you dont pay for the 15 minutes they wrok over everyday?
How about if they are 14 minutes late everyday? Bet that would leave a mark huh.
No, actually. As it is right now, we are paying them for every minute they stay over. Having looked at the OT numbers recently though, that is costing us quite a bit. A few minutes here and there really add up.
As such, I am compelled to question what we are legally required to do with regard to handling clocking in and out at approximate times. Any company that wants to remain profitable should always be looking at these kind of issues. It ensures the people who are clocking in and out still have a job in the first place.
When employees are off at 3:30, it's a few with 3:33 here, 3:35 there....nothing major for any one employee. It's not because we require them to stay the extra few minutes. It's because they are washing their hands at the end of the day, going to the bathroom, or saying good-bye to their coworkers for the day. We have no problem with that and realize that it would be near impossible for everyone to punch out at exactly 3:30 every single day. That's why we are questioning how to handle the few minutes here and there.
So far it seems like the norm is to split the 15 minutes. If you work 8 minutes or more, you'll be paid for the entire 15 minutes of OT. Work 7 or under, and you won't be paid for the 15 minute period. Sounds fair enough and that's probably what we will do.
Thanks to everybody for your input...

[Wild Horses]

If you want to control your employees every MINUTE with a time clock then a person should not complain.
My company is rather large, a few billion a year. We have our time cards on the intranet and enter them by hand, like was said a couple minutes is nothing I worry about. If I choose to get here 15 min early I still put down the required start time, it also helps get away from the pile up at the time clock!:D :D

[sangervdrive]

Watch that link. My Norton detected a Trojan virus from it.
How did that link get in my damn post???
Ahh its still there!

[FOREVER2DOXIES]

At just about every company I have worked for, there is a 7 minute leeway allowable. At the same time, I have never been paid for OT as it was not allowed by the company. I have always worked for small companies, private doctors, etc. So I just didnt work OT or if I do (which i do alot now) I know I dont get paid for it. At this time, we clock in on a conventional time clock and because I call in payroll, I round everything out within reason. We will be going onto an internet time clock as of next month and the only thing I can see is that there will be an issue with the lunch hour thing. We get an hour for lunch (combining the 30 min lunch with the two 15 min breaks). The issue is that the employees will be the ones who must change habits! Because we are in the medical field and work for a small private practice, we tend to eat at our desks for 15 min and then begin to work once again. With this internet clock, you MUST clock in and out in 60 minutes' time! No more, no less. The good thing is that it keeps time...the bad is that if you dont sit at your desk and moniter your own time to return, you can go over and not be "allowed" to clock back in.