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Coded-Dude
03-30-2007, 10:07 AM
U.S. may impose a $1,500 yearly environmental fee.
Sonny Cline pays to license his 22-foot Regal cuddy cabin boat, pays to rent a slip on the Sacramento River and pays taxes on extras like the water space he uses.
How would he feel about forking over more money for a federal environmental permit, maybe $1,500 a year by one estimate?
"Oh, you're kidding? That is insane," Cline said.
Owners of the country's 18 million recreation boats might agree.
A ruling in a federal lawsuit being heard in California could require new permits on all vessels -- possibly everything from canoes and kayaks to oceangoing cargo ships -- according to recreation boating advocates.
"There's a lot of little boats out there," said Bryan Dove, California representative of the Boat Owners Association of the United States.
"They don't have that kind of cash. This is just another financial burden on the boater," said Dove, who lives 15 miles west of Stockton.
Several environmental groups in Oregon and California have sued the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, charging that, by not enforcing the 1972 Clean Water Act properly, it failed to stop the invasion of destructive, foreign marine life, such as zebra mussels in the Great Lakes region and Chinese mitten crabs in the Delta and the Bay Area.
The invasive species hitchhike in the 21 billion gallons of ship ballast taken in at distant ports and dumped annually around U.S. shores, according to environmental groups.
Ballast is water taken on by cargo ships after they unload to balance the vessel for the journey home.
A judge in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California in September ordered the EPA to create a permit process by September 2008 for vessels that dispense effluent.
The federal agency and the shipping industry tried to confine the permit process to ocean vessels that take on ballast.
The court instead issued a sweeping order that extended to any vessel that discharges any fluid, including the typical 15-foot boat purchased for nothing more than puttering down the Delta on weekends, said Duncan Neasham, a spokesman for the National Marine Manufacturers Association in Washington, D.C.
"Effluent is anything that comes off a boat," he said. "If you spill a Coke or wash your boat down, or carry a bottle of water on your kayak, you might be included."
Permits could be as much as $1,500, he said.
The boat-industry association, which supports controlling ballast on cargo ships, filed papers last week in federal court voicing its concerns.
The industry is hoping that Congress will pass a law before the deadline that would largely exempt recreational boaters, Neasham said.
Environmental groups, including the San Francisco-based Baykeeper, argue in court documents that 10,000 marine species trek the globe via ballast, causing annual economic losses as high as $137 billion, double the yearly damage by natural disasters in the United States.
Without natural predators, uninvited species proliferate in their new homes, causing ecological imbalance and destruction, environmentalists have said.
The zebra mussels, Caspian Sea natives, have spread throughout the Great Lakes region since 1988, according to the Great Lakes Information Network.
The mussels, no larger than a fingernail, clog water pipes in power plants and compete with native species for nutrients.
Recreational boating generates only a small source of pollutants, said Margaret Podlich, vice president of government affairs for the Boat Owners Association of the United States.
Congress has never been moved to create a law that specifically targets domestic-traveling recreational vessels, meaning it should support one that excludes them, Podlich said.
Fears of burdensome fees and cumbersome government permits imposed on recreational vehicles are unfounded, said Deb Self, executive director of Baykeeper, a citizens advocacy group that protects waterways in the Delta and Bay Area.
"We have no way of knowing what the permit process will be," she said.
The initiator of the lawsuit, Northwest Environmental Advocates, believes that the thrust of the regulations will focus on oceangoing vessels, the crux of the problem, said Nina Bell, executive director of the Portland-based group.
"We're concerned, too," she said of the domestic boating industry's concerns.
There are plenty of boats that could be affected, said Dove, the boat owners association representative.
In the Delta, wakeboard boats take in water, bass boats store water onboard for the fish, and larger recreation boats discharge "gray" water and bilge water, which would probably need a permit, he said.
The jokes about boaters owning a bottomless pit are more truth than not, said an owner of two vintage boats.
"This is ridiculous. Everyone thinks boaters are zillionaires," said Larry Hazelett, a Sacramento retired mechanical contractor who restores wooden boats.
Rising fuel prices, fees, insurance and marina rent are already driving people from the sport, he said.
A yacht broker friend, he said, has double the inventory he normally has.
"You're only going to spend so much money doing this or doing that," said Hazelett, 65.
Cline said he considers his boat a family activity, one that is increasingly burdensome.
"It's already a relatively expensive hobby," said Cline, 43.
"You know with housing prices going up, and gas prices, you start adding all these things up and it takes a lot of the joy out of living here."Sac Bee (http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/146746.html)
Not sure how many of you have heard about this, so I though I would share.

OGShocker
03-30-2007, 10:14 AM
We get what we vote for.

HCS
03-30-2007, 10:18 AM
California is definity becoming the nanny state.

RaceFace
03-30-2007, 10:21 AM
Man! And I thought I was taking it in the shorts when AZ raised the "non-resident" registration fee!! :mad:

Coded-Dude
03-30-2007, 10:24 AM
While I can understand the danger of long range vessels with ballasts causing the introduction of unwanted species to be a problem.....I don't see how this relates to small recreational lake/river boats.

dumbandyoung
03-30-2007, 11:27 AM
God Damn liberal hippies and their environmental groups! I doubt this will pass!

CARLSON-JET
03-30-2007, 11:56 AM
My sig says it all.

Ziggy
03-30-2007, 11:57 AM
While I can understand the danger of long range vessels with ballasts causing the introduction of unwanted species to be a problem.....I don't see how this relates to small recreational lake/river boats.
Compare it to Drug Lords and local drug dealers.............which ones generally take the rap?
Without one there isn't the other.
Egg or Chicken?.
You get my point. Target the easy victim.

centerhill condor
03-30-2007, 12:17 PM
this is an excellent excuse for a trip up the potomac or delaware...so when General Washington threw the money across the river that was a sign of things to come wasn't it?

My Man's Sportin' Wood
03-30-2007, 12:17 PM
I swear sometimes it seems a conspiracy to force us to do nothing but sit home and vej out on the tv. Close our desert so that we can't use it, close many of the local lakes so that we can't use them. Impose large fees (such as this) on boats, create rules against riding motorcycles and quads on your own acreage, and not allow people to drive through our national parks paid for with taxpayer money (we get to ride a bus with 100 other people, bratty kids, and crying infants). Instead, we can just sit on our asses while they get fatter and watch the mindnumbing box and not get angry about anything . . . unless they want us to (ex: Middle East). :mad:

Ziggy
03-30-2007, 02:23 PM
I swear sometimes it seems a conspiracy to force us to do nothing but sit home and vej out on the tv. Close our desert so that we can't use it, close many of the local lakes so that we can't use them. Impose large fees (such as this) on boats, create rules against riding motorcycles and quads on your own acreage, and not allow people to drive through our national parks paid for with taxpayer money (we get to ride a bus with 100 other people, bratty kids, and crying infants). Instead, we can just sit on our asses while they get fatter and watch the mindnumbing box and not get angry about anything . . . unless they want us to (ex: Middle East). :mad:
Pretty soon we'll have gaurd towers along the borders to keep us in and make us all paint our, I mean, the houses grey. :rolleyes:

centerhill condor
03-30-2007, 04:24 PM
Pretty soon we'll have gaurd towers along the borders to keep us in and make us all paint our, I mean, the houses grey. :rolleyes:
Finally, I'm ahead of the curve!

RitcheyRch
03-30-2007, 05:53 PM
Just saw this discussion on the news. Definitely not good if it indeed passes.

shueman
03-30-2007, 07:49 PM
Gotta pay ta play.... :)

Sleek-Jet
03-31-2007, 07:43 AM
I just got my Blue Ribbon magazine and they had an article on it...
http://www.sharetrails.org/index.cfm?page=42

QuickJet
03-31-2007, 08:45 AM
The more people that buy into the notion that man is causing global warming, the more man is going to impose needless fee's , fines and taxes to try to combat it.
It is all part of Gore's and the left's plan to redistribute the wealth.

lawbreaker2
03-31-2007, 06:09 PM
I swear sometimes it seems a conspiracy to force us to do nothing but sit home and vej out on the tv. Close our desert so that we can't use it, close many of the local lakes so that we can't use them. Impose large fees (such as this) on boats, create rules against riding motorcycles and quads on your own acreage, and not allow people to drive through our national parks paid for with taxpayer money (we get to ride a bus with 100 other people, bratty kids, and crying infants). Instead, we can just sit on our asses while they get fatter and watch the mindnumbing box and not get angry about anything . . . unless they want us to (ex: Middle East). :mad:
I have been saying this same thing for a long time now.:mad:

YODA
03-31-2007, 06:28 PM
It is all part of Gore's and the left's plan to redistribute the wealth.
Distribute it to who???? All the illegals!!!!!!!! I'm getting tired of giving my wages away to all the assholes that sit on their asses and collect freebies. But I guess thats the way it goes when you live in a "free" country and try to make a decent living so you can enjoy life with your family and friends..... HA!!!!

Burn504
03-31-2007, 06:30 PM
and yet there are thousands of people that dont vote or do anything every year...:idea:

asch
04-01-2007, 06:15 PM
I'm surprised it hasn't come along before now. For that matter I'm surprised rec. boating even exists at all with all the eviroMENTALS in charge. It's going to come to an end eventually. Same with off-roading sports. It can't NOT happen. So long as EPA Nazis are around, more and more of our freedoms will served be up as offering in return for "security" in the name of the environment.

RitcheyRch
04-04-2007, 07:14 AM
If this happened the entire low end and used boat market would disappear. People won't spend $4000 plus on a used boat and then have to spend $1500 a year environmental fee, $100 registration, $50 luxury tax, and $300 insurance. A couple years of those kind of fees when you only use the boat a few times and people will be giving their boats away.

edog_103
04-04-2007, 08:54 AM
I read a couple different articles on the subject. It sounds to me like they are concerned with the boats that have ballast. Tanker ships, Bass boats, and Wakeboard boats. All of those boats can fill there water tanks and take the water elsewhere then dump.
Hell I'm not even in my boat $1,500 for the totall price. I won't pay $1,500 to use it.