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ToMannyToys
04-01-2007, 07:09 PM
I came across this single boat crash 6P.M Sunday just between SteamBoat and Copper Canyon. Unknown circumstances and unk. on the injuries. There were two guys in the Police boat and I passed a medic pontoon boat that was inbound to help. The boat looks familiar and looked like a Eliminator cat . http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToMannyToyz/BoatBummer3.jpg (http://photobucket.com)
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToManny<a href=http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToMannyToyz/BoatBummer1.jpg (http://photobucket.com)Toyz/BoatBummer2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

JB in so cal
04-01-2007, 07:11 PM
I came across this single boat crash 6P.M Sunday just between SteamBoat and Copper Canyon. Unknown circumstances and unk. on the injuries. There were two guys in the Police boat and I passed a medic pontoon boat that was inbound to help. The boat looks familiar and looked like a Eliminator cat . http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToMannyToyz/BoatBummer3.jpg (http://photobucket.com)
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToManny<a href=http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToMannyToyz/BoatBummer1.jpg (http://photobucket.com)Toyz/BoatBummer2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
No see shit!

SummitKarl
04-01-2007, 07:11 PM
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToMannyToyz/BoatBummer3.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToMannyToyz/BoatBummer1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToMannyToyz/BoatBummer2.jpg

4day!!
04-01-2007, 07:22 PM
looks like the HTM in this thread http://***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145760

Phat Matt
04-01-2007, 07:23 PM
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o238/mraff/havasu%203-31/Havasu3-31018.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToMannyToyz/BoatBummer1.jpg

revndave
04-01-2007, 07:25 PM
Looks like a match.Hope everbody is ok.

RiverDave
04-01-2007, 07:26 PM
Looks like the same boat to me judging by the flames.
RD

TOBTEK
04-01-2007, 07:27 PM
HOPE everyone was OK!

HocusPocus
04-01-2007, 07:27 PM
it does look better right side up... hope there were no serious injuries.

ToMannyToys
04-01-2007, 07:29 PM
Sorry about the pics and thanks for posting them still kinda new at this stuff. I will go with the HTM I remember seeing that boat on the water today.

Boatcop
04-01-2007, 07:31 PM
Jesus on a stick.........
WTF's going on? It's only April 1st.
HTM over-torqued at Steamboat?
Head-on near Big River?
Are people trying to kill themselves early before gas prices get too high?
Be careful out there folks. Summer isn't even close, yet.

Kachina26
04-01-2007, 07:46 PM
Typical HTM blow over?

SFV2RVR
04-01-2007, 08:14 PM
That was my old boat!

FASTDMAX
04-01-2007, 08:16 PM
yup everyone is ok, that was my buddys boat i got the call about 1 hour after it happened, there was 3 people in the boat,from what he said seems like the drive locked up. but who cares about the boat thank god there all ok. thanks for all your concerns

revndave
04-01-2007, 08:16 PM
Thats a good looking boat in your sig. Mark

grads2112
04-01-2007, 08:18 PM
Great to hear everyone is okay.

SFV2RVR
04-01-2007, 08:23 PM
Thats a good looking boat in your sig. Mark
Thanks! Travis said your thinkin about proprod's. Pick that thing up.:D

shueman
04-01-2007, 08:33 PM
Good to hear everyone is O.K. :cool:

Devil's Advocate
04-01-2007, 08:55 PM
Glad everyone is all right.

andy01
04-01-2007, 09:20 PM
Man that just sucks, as everyone posted good to hear everyone is okay.
As boat cop posted, lets be safe out there. The season is still young, but even late in the season lets keep it safe.
Andy

455Rocket
04-01-2007, 09:20 PM
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o238/mraff/havasu%203-31/Havasu3-31018.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/ToMannyToyz/BoatBummer1.jpg
Comming home from Havi I saw the same boat leaving town at about noon... so either he was trailering it out, or there's a similar one kicking around

roln 20s
04-01-2007, 10:40 PM
WOW - glad they are ok. Spent a few minutes talking to them and those Howard cat guys in front of the Agave about 2pm today right before they left. Hate to see things like this, glad everyone is ok.
Roln 20s

Nord
04-01-2007, 10:42 PM
Comming home from Havi I saw the same boat leaving town at about noon... so either he was trailering it out, or there's a similar one kicking around
They use the same g ;)elcoats on different boats???? :confused: :)

RitcheyRch
04-02-2007, 04:50 AM
Glad to hear everyone was ok.

707dog
04-02-2007, 05:32 AM
this sux azz!! glad everybody walked/swam away!!...?

707dog
04-02-2007, 05:37 AM
was reading the latest thread about the boat crash in havi and was wondering how do you recover a flipped /rolled over boat?? i mean as far as getting it up right or being able to get it back on the trailer??? seen it done to a 18' jet boat with man power(as in 6 drunk guys)..but with a much bigger boat it must be a task.....

Mrs.Racer277
04-02-2007, 07:21 AM
Think I saw them out Saturday. So glad to hear everyone will be ok.

ULTRA26 # 1
04-02-2007, 07:32 AM
was reading the latest thread about the boat crash in havi and was wondering how do you recover a flipped /rolled over boat?? i mean as far as getting it up right or being able to get it back on the trailer??? seen it done to a 18' jet boat with man power(as in 6 drunk guys)..but with a much bigger boat it must be a task.....
I was wondering the same thing. How would you roll this type of boat back over without sinking it?
John M

Havasu Hangin'
04-02-2007, 07:36 AM
I was wondering the same thing. How would you roll this type of boat back over without sinking it?
John M
Big airbags on the transom. Roll it over, then use a big-ass (jacuzzi) pump get the water out.

Hardly Satisfied
04-02-2007, 07:44 AM
Glad to hear everyone was Ok

ULTRA26 # 1
04-02-2007, 07:47 AM
Big airbags on the transom. Roll it over, then use a big-ass (jacuzzi) pump get the water out.
Thanks,
That's make sense.
John M

Mr. Crusader 83
04-02-2007, 07:52 AM
We were sitting in the wide part of the lake and the Medic boat came out of the Casino. I knew something went bad. Glad everyone made it home okay.

DMOORE
04-02-2007, 07:56 AM
Sad to hear about the boat. But as everyone else said, the thing that really matters is the people are OK. This scenario has to be my biggest fear. I'm not really too concerned about "crashing" because I'm a pretty conservative driver ,especially when people are on board. But a catastrophic failure is always in the back of my mind. Very scarry stuff. It can happen in a split second.
Darrell.

707dog
04-02-2007, 07:58 AM
Big airbags on the transom. Roll it over, then use a big-ass (jacuzzi) pump get the water out.
damn that must be a pretty interesting task...thats for the info!

Havasu Hangin'
04-02-2007, 08:23 AM
damn that must be a pretty interesting task...thats for the info!
Last year, I saw two sunk boats get raised- the bigger the boat, the bigger the airbags. Hopefully, that's as close as I'll need to get with those guys...lol.

RVRKID
04-02-2007, 09:18 AM
The owner of the boat thanks every one for there thoughts. We are at Makai's having breakfast, scary deal. Thank God they are all ok.

blackcloud75
04-03-2007, 12:54 PM
Glad everybody came out clean!!!!!!!!!
And besides.....
Spent a few minutes talking to them and those Howard cat guys in front of the Agave about 2pm today right before they left.
All those punks in those Howard cats are bunch of wussy's!!!!!!!:D
Kudos to Braeger for yankin' everyone out of the water

RiverDave
04-03-2007, 01:46 PM
So what were the circumstances that caused the roll over?
RD

shadow
04-03-2007, 01:49 PM
So what were the circumstances that caused the roll over?
RD
I saw the boat on the trailer yesterday and the whole gimbal looks like it gernaded.word has it the u joints let go and took out the gimbal.the drive is hanging by a rope and the rest of the boat has stress cracks all down the side.

Deano
04-03-2007, 01:58 PM
Damn. Probably would've sunk anyways, right?

hittum
04-03-2007, 02:08 PM
The boat was mine-- we were headed back in from Streamboat and there was a loud BANG...it shot the boat sideways and it rolled hard...everyone flew safely out of the boat safely--?????----yea the drive was grenaded when they pulled it out and the boat Im sure is totalled. I went and looked at it the next to snap a couple pics and it hurt bad to see it like that. OUCH! We are all ok and thats all that matters though. Thank you all for your thoughts:)

blackcloud75
04-03-2007, 02:09 PM
So what were the circumstances that caused the roll over?
RD
broken drive...only thing holding it on was the external steering
Braeger:"broke left and stuffed a sponson, dead stop and pitched all 3 three occupants out(bruised up w/no major injuries)".......not alcohol related

blackcloud75
04-03-2007, 02:11 PM
The boat was mine-- we were headed back in from Streamboat and there was a loud BANG...it shot the boat sideways and it rolled hard...everyone flew safely out of the boat safely--?????----yea the drive was grenaded when they pulled it out and the boat Im sure is totalled. I went and looked at it the next to snap a couple pics and it hurt bad to see it like that. OUCH! We are all ok and thats all that matters though. Thank you all for your thoughts:)
Glad you guys are O.K.......just got off the phone with Kaatz and Braeger
Braeger was telling me the whole story, F----in' scary
Cory

DCBDaytona
04-03-2007, 02:13 PM
The boat was mine-- we were headed back in from Streamboat and there was a loud BANG...it shot the boat sideways and it rolled hard...everyone flew safely out of the boat safely--?????----yea the drive was grenaded when they pulled it out and the boat Im sure is totalled. I went and looked at it the next to snap a couple pics and it hurt bad to see it like that. OUCH! We are all ok and thats all that matters though. Thank you all for your thoughts:)
Is it possble that your were midway through a turn?

SVO 540
04-03-2007, 02:23 PM
Glad to hear everyone is safe. A broken drive is my biggest fear.
How fast was the boat traveling when the drive broke?
Did the drive completely seperate from the gimble and was only hanging on by the external steering rams?
Are there any aftermarket Bravo parts that you feel may have prevented this failure?

getreal
04-03-2007, 02:25 PM
I was wondering the same thing. How would you roll this type of boat back over without sinking it?
John M
After we flipped in Huntington Beach, Sea Tow hooked a line on one of the "u" bolts on the bow, the boat came right over but here's what it took to get the water out. Even with the crane it took over an hour.

hittum
04-03-2007, 04:05 PM
goin straight as an arrow-- we were not midway in a turn

hittum
04-03-2007, 04:08 PM
One more thing--the boat was completely upside-down before I realized that nobody was still in it with me--lol--thats when I decided to bail out right before it hit the water!

Biglue
04-03-2007, 04:12 PM
One more thing--the boat was completely upside-down before I realized that nobody was still in it with me--lol--thats when I decided to bail out right before it hit the water!
Boats are replaceable man. Glad you and you passengers made it out alright.
Welcome aboard by the way.

vmjtc3
04-03-2007, 04:13 PM
One more thing--the boat was completely upside-down before I realized that nobody was still in it with me--lol--thats when I decided to bail out right before it hit the water!
Good ideal on the bailing out! Glad you guy's are ok. Not that it is funny but I could not help but laugh at that statment. Glad you can laugh about it now.
You need to head to Vegas cause you are one lucky dude!

dumbandyoung
04-03-2007, 04:37 PM
Glad to hear your ok. What kind of upper, lower and gimble was on the boat??
Haven't there been some crazy wrecks with HTMs?? I remember hearing that they are very hard to drive. I saw one a few years ago that had the single ram steering break in a turn and ended up the east side of the river a little north of Needles. If anyone knows where im talking about, that is steep hill to get stuck on. The boat was all full of 18-22year olds. Luckily no one was hurt.

Lunatic
04-03-2007, 06:04 PM
I'm glad everyone is okay, That seens like it could be very scary.

JB in so cal
04-03-2007, 06:11 PM
Glad to hear your ok. What kind of upper, lower and gimble was on the boat??
Haven't there been some crazy wrecks with HTMs?? I remember hearing that they are very hard to drive. I saw one a few years ago that had the single ram steering break in a turn and ended up the east side of the river a little north of Needles. If anyone knows where im talking about, that is steep hill to get stuck on. The boat was all full of 18-22year olds. Luckily no one was hurt.
If the gimbal blew out, a zodiac would go over...

SFV2RVR
04-03-2007, 07:33 PM
[QUOTE=dumbandyoung;2480778]Glad to hear your ok. What kind of upper, lower and gimble was on the boat??
It had an XR drive with the stock gimble. Not the upgraded beefy one. Single ram steering.

RiverDave
04-03-2007, 07:48 PM
so all the HTM haters can leave the hull alone if it was drive failure.
I wasn't implying with my comments that it was an HTM related incident.. I was just curious to the events that surrounded the accident.
It's not a real shocker though that it happened to be an HTM wrong side up since you brought it up.
RD

gmocnik
04-03-2007, 07:54 PM
first...so thankfull that everyone is o.k.
it's the engineer in me and wanting to understand how this happened in order to prevent/minimize a mechanical failure causing catastrophic instability...thnks to those involved for being open and upfront on the circumastances....it just might save one of us from having a bad experience...
on a single drive boat (cat or v) i don't see how locking up a drive (prop stopping) or locking up a motor could cause anything other than an unscheduled stop.
now a broken gimble should also be accompanied by the drive shaft decoupling from the drive also resulting in a stopped prop..
in reading the above, it states that the boat only had a single hydraulic ram....O.K. in this situation, a broken gimble could allow the drive to "shift its axis" in the opposite direction of the ram causing a sudden "turn"....
Do you think the single ram allowed the gimble failure to create the turn???
Do you think a double ram in a failure like this might have minimized the axis shift or unexpected turn???
Its all a guess, i know, but any insight might help to prevemt this from happenning...
sorry for the loss of the fiberglass and parts...in the end, thats all it is...
hope any recovery is quick
gm

PHOTOGLOU
04-03-2007, 09:44 PM
RD, no prob, drives do fail all the time, except those #6's,how it got upside down ?? the owner mat have to tell how that happened ??
I've broken a #6 with 230 hrs on it.... so it's not impossible just not probable

Jordy
04-03-2007, 09:56 PM
Anyone remember the Predator run from Pegged when the F-34 crosses behind??? Something about a locked up engine/drive that hooked that boat hard to one side. ;)
Simple hydrodynamics. Take the speed you're going, lock up a drive to the point that the prop stops spinning and you can bet that the blades of that prop start acting like a rudder in a hurry. Depending on which way you're spinning the prop, that's the direction you're turning. In a short cat with a higher center of gravity, you can bet that hull design played a roll in it ultimately rolling over. ;)
Glad everyone is OK at any rate. :D

DMOORE
04-03-2007, 10:51 PM
RD, no prob, drives do fail all the time, except those #6's,how it got upside down ?? the owner mat have to tell how that happened ??
I spent many years in the SEAL teams. I also spent time at the Special Boat Unit where we ran a number of off shore boats(42 Fountains, and others) and yes #6 drives do break. Seen it happen many times. But then again a lot of things breah in 20ft seas.
Darrell.

andy01
04-03-2007, 11:24 PM
If the gimbal blew out, a zodiac would go over...
so all the HTM haters can leave the hull alone if it was drive failure.
first...so thankfull that everyone is o.k.
it's the engineer in me and wanting to understand how this happened in order to prevent/minimize a mechanical failure causing catastrophic instability...thnks to those involved for being open and upfront on the circumastances....it just might save one of us from having a bad experience...
on a single drive boat (cat or v) i don't see how locking up a drive (prop stopping) or locking up a motor could cause anything other than an unscheduled stop.
now a broken gimble should also be accompanied by the drive shaft decoupling from the drive also resulting in a stopped prop..
in reading the above, it states that the boat only had a single hydraulic ram....O.K. in this situation, a broken gimble could allow the drive to "shift its axis" in the opposite direction of the ram causing a sudden "turn"....
Do you think the single ram allowed the gimble failure to create the turn???
Do you think a double ram in a failure like this might have minimized the axis shift or unexpected turn???
Its all a guess, i know, but any insight might help to prevemt this from happenning...
sorry for the loss of the fiberglass and parts...in the end, thats all it is...
hope any recovery is quick
gm
Anyone remember the Predator run from Pegged when the F-34 crosses behind??? Something about a locked up engine/drive that hooked that boat hard to one side. ;)
Simple hydrodynamics. Take the speed you're going, lock up a drive to the point that the prop stops spinning and you can bet that the blades of that prop start acting like a rudder in a hurry. Depending on which way you're spinning the prop, that's the direction you're turning. In a short cat with a higher center of gravity, you can bet that hull design played a roll in it ultimately rolling over. ;)
Glad everyone is OK at any rate. :D
I broke the gimble on my DCB Mach 26 at 82 mph (I looked when I looked at the gauges). The drive dropped off the back of the boat only to be held in place by my DAUL ram external steering. The boat did nothing but slow down and come off plane. No turns nothing wierd, like it just got pulled out of gear. The drive was locked up! The u-joints, drive line, gimble and some gears were toast. We towed it back and put it on the trailer. I would say the single ram forced the drive to one side by pulling it or pushing the drive, because the distance changed on that one ram. Glad to see everybody made it out okay, you can always get another boat.
Andy

dicudmore
04-03-2007, 11:35 PM
I broke the gimble on my DCB Mach 26 at 82 mph (I looked when I looked at the gauges). The drive dropped off the back of the boat only to be held in place by my DAUL ram external steering. The boat did nothing but slow down and come off plane. No turns nothing wierd, like it just got pulled out of gear. The drive was locked up! The u-joints, drive line, gimble and some gears were toast. We towed it back and put it on the trailer. I would say the single ram forced the drive to one side by pulling it or pushing the drive, because the distance changed on that one ram. Glad to see everybody made it out okay, you can always get another boat.
Andy
I thought I knew somebody else that had broken a gimble...
same happened when it broke on the Shadow with Ron driving, made a bad noise and stopped...nothing weird...also a dual-ram steering boat.

catman-do
04-04-2007, 06:39 AM
Holly sh1t! My buddy steve was on that boat. We were parked next to you guys in steamboat that day (27 Ultra) and were supposed to meet you at Naked Turtle... I sure am glad all you guys are ok! Sucks to hear about these things.

havasurat27
04-04-2007, 07:12 AM
Holly sh1t! My buddy steve was on that boat. We were parked next to you guys in steamboat that day (27 Ultra) and were supposed to meet you at Naked Turtle... I sure am glad all you guys are ok! Sucks to hear about these things.
We were supposed to be in Steamboat with them and Braeger (red/white Howard) but we never left the channel for whatever reason. Glad Braeger was able to be there to help them out of the water. Glad all turned out for the best in this situation. Braegers view from behind was that the boats were all rollin about 70mph and the HTM just made a sharp turn and barrel rolled. ?? Obvious drive/steering issue of sorts.

BadKachina
04-04-2007, 07:13 AM
After we flipped in Huntington Beach, Sea Tow hooked a line on one of the "u" bolts on the bow, the boat came right over but here's what it took to get the water out. Even with the crane it took over an hour.
Hey Roy,
are you still alive? Going to the Poker Run in April? Maybe we'll see you there.
Paul.

Bense468
04-04-2007, 08:42 AM
Thats my buddy Nittel's boat. Holy shit.

dumbandyoung
04-04-2007, 10:43 AM
If the gimbal blew out, a zodiac would go over...
The reason I asked was because IMCO had an employee for a short time that was assembling their gimbals. The reason he was short term was because hes was a dumbass and plumbed them wrong and a did a bunch of other stuff wrong. I think he was fired the two days after memorial fday weekend when a bunch of guys came back pissed because of gimbal failure. I thought maybe he got a hold of one of those gimbals.... To my knowledge all of the gimbals assembled by this guy where recalled and replaced. You can imagine how pissed Fred Inman was. That guy cost him alot of money. So its not that I was gonna badmouth any brand of gimbal, I was just curious if It was one of those Imco gimbals. And for the record, Fred Inman and his family run a TERRIFIC company and build GREAT products.
Other employees encouraged the guy to get a career in fry cooking. lol
It had an XR drive with the stock gimble. Not the upgraded beefy one. Single ram steering.
I hope he gets this all taken care of and gets back on the water asap!
Has the insurance company said what they are gonna do yet?

Deano
04-04-2007, 11:42 AM
Has the insurance company said what they are gonna do yet?
raise rates for everyone so they can pay for this boat 1K fold.
I would love to see a picture of the damage. Seems logical that the single ram had alot to do with the sharp turn....maybe duals is the only way to go.

Holland
04-04-2007, 12:00 PM
One more thing--the boat was completely upside-down before I realized that nobody was still in it with me--lol--thats when I decided to bail out right before it hit the water!
That is some scarrrry shiat... quite a wake up call, especially while driving safe / straight.
Glad your group is good. I would hate to call friends "Statistics!!!"
Be Safe... And get another one!:D

Throttle
04-04-2007, 12:07 PM
I remember seeing that boat on da water on Sunday... we were wondering what was going on with all the LE boats racing accross Thompson Bay...
glad no one got hurt...

lalhc
04-04-2007, 12:07 PM
I am glad to hear that everyone was OK in this accident. Now I know where the salvage boat was heading Sunday afternoon. I was taking my mom through the channel when I saw it heading out of the Marina.

djunkie
04-04-2007, 12:11 PM
I broke the gimble on my DCB Mach 26 at 82 mph (I looked when I looked at the gauges). The drive dropped off the back of the boat only to be held in place by my DAUL ram external steering. The boat did nothing but slow down and come off plane. No turns nothing wierd, like it just got pulled out of gear. The drive was locked up! The u-joints, drive line, gimble and some gears were toast. We towed it back and put it on the trailer. I would say the single ram forced the drive to one side by pulling it or pushing the drive, because the distance changed on that one ram. Glad to see everybody made it out okay, you can always get another boat.
Andy
I just had this conversation the other day with someone very well known in the marine business and he said that won't happen with a single ram. Only way the ram will pull to one side is if you yank on the wheel.

Hardly Satisfied
04-04-2007, 12:27 PM
The boat was mine-- we were headed back in from Streamboat and there was a loud BANG...it shot the boat sideways and it rolled hard...everyone flew safely out of the boat safely--?????----yea the drive was grenaded when they pulled it out and the boat Im sure is totalled. I went and looked at it the next to snap a couple pics and it hurt bad to see it like that. OUCH! We are all ok and thats all that matters though. Thank you all for your thoughts:)
Glad to hear everyone was OK , very good news

blackcloud75
04-04-2007, 01:02 PM
I just had this conversation the other day with someone very well known in the marine business and he said that won't happen with a single ram. Only way the ram will pull to one side is if you yank on the wheel.
or the broken drive has enough drag(????) to "rudder" the boat around???????????????

ToMannyToys
04-04-2007, 01:10 PM
The boat was mine-- we were headed back in from Streamboat and there was a loud BANG...it shot the boat sideways and it rolled hard...everyone flew safely out of the boat safely--?????----yea the drive was grenaded when they pulled it out and the boat Im sure is totalled. I went and looked at it the next to snap a couple pics and it hurt bad to see it like that. OUCH! We are all ok and thats all that matters though. Thank you all for your thoughts:)
I have a few more pics from the scene of the "roll over" if you would like them send me a PM and I'll forward them on to you. I'm glad you and all your passengers are ok. I was nice to see that all of the occupants were sitting safely aboard the L.E boats without any noticeable injuries. You guys were very lucky that you didn't slam into the rocky shoreline it could have been real ugly.
Manny

djunkie
04-04-2007, 01:22 PM
or the broken drive has enough drag(????) to "rudder" the boat around???????????????
I should have been a little more specific. Depending on what mph the boat is running. If it was an 80mph break a single ram should keep the drive in place good enough. Running faster obviously would require the dual ram do to the extra force put against it. Of course a lot of other stuff comes into play, hull design etc. Different hulls will do different things in the case of a catostrophic (sp) failure of a drive.

BADBLOWN572
04-04-2007, 01:45 PM
I just had this conversation the other day with someone very well known in the marine business and he said that won't happen with a single ram. Only way the ram will pull to one side is if you yank on the wheel.
It depends. The ram should not move extend or retract unless the steering is turned. However, if the gimbal was destroyed and began to separate from the boat, it could have let the drive pivot on the steering ram. Since there is not a 2nd ram to hold it in place, the drive could "in theory" pivot and turn the nose of the drive causing the boat to turn. I would venture to say that if there was a 2nd ram on the boat, it would not have gone over. If there was no external steering, the drive might have just fallen off the boat and the boat would come to a stop. I am not offering single ram on any of my boats for that particular reason.
I have blown up drives over 80mph that locked up. All that happened was the boat slows down REAL fast! Never turned or did anything abrupt.

djunkie
04-04-2007, 01:50 PM
It depends. The ram should not move extend or retract unless the steering is turned. However, if the gimbal was destroyed and began to separate from the boat, it could have let the drive pivot on the steering ram. Since there is not a 2nd ram to hold it in place, the drive could "in theory" pivot and turn the nose of the drive causing the boat to turn. I would venture to say that if there was a 2nd ram on the boat, it would not have gone over.
I have blown up drives over 80mph that locked up. All that happened was the boat slows down REAL fast! Never turned or did anything abrupt.
I should have been a little more specific. Depending on what mph the boat is running. If it was an 80mph break a single ram should keep the drive in place good enough. Running faster obviously would require the dual ram do to the extra force put against it. Of course a lot of other stuff comes into play, hull design etc. Different hulls will do different things in the case of a catostrophic (sp) failure of a drive.
Thats the reason for my other post here. I wasn't trying to disagree with Andy at all. Just stating that a single ram won't move without the wheel moving. Also that not always is a dual ram setup needed. Horsepower and top speeds determine that. Also the fact that different hulls will do way different things in an event like this. Not saying the HTM went over becaue of the hull design though. :D

BADBLOWN572
04-04-2007, 02:31 PM
Thats the reason for my other post here. I wasn't trying to disagree with Andy at all. Just stating that a single ram won't move without the wheel moving. Also that not always is a dual ram setup needed. Horsepower and top speeds determine that. Also the fact that different hulls will do way different things in an event like this. Not saying the HTM went over becaue of the hull design though. :D
Everything in your post is accurate. :) I do not believe that a single ram is the best return on investment though. I have seen numerous drives come off the backs of boats. It actually happens more than expected. If a drive comes off and has a single ram, it may pivot. It should not do that with the twin ram. A twin ram should keep it up against the back of the boat. I feel that a single ram is doing the absolute bare minimum to increase safety, but doesn't take it far enough. A twin ram goes as far as you can go to make sure that if something goes wrong, it won't become a safety issue.

Jordy
04-04-2007, 02:48 PM
If it was an 80mph break a single ram should keep the drive in place good enough.
Not necessarily. What happens if the force of the break makes the outdrive start "paddling?"
That is, the outdrive stops being one of these:
Not a paddle:
http://brucebullockmarine.com/mercury/images/bravo1.gif
And becomes one of these???
Paddle:
http://canoekayak.com/gear/bent-wood-paddle-art.jpg
Then things can get real ugly, or so I read in another thread here a while back regarding hydraulic steering setups. ;)

LHC30Victory
04-04-2007, 03:13 PM
Well, I am no expert at this stuff but I know that there are many variations that contribute to any one incident. That being said, I remember the IMCO boat loosing a drive due to a broken MERCURY gimbal at the 2005 SCOPE poker run. That caused the 40 footer to turn hard enough to eject Fred Jr. into the ocean. That is a twin drive boat with dual rams and a tie bar....
more food for speculation :D
I saw this HTM at Absolute the morning they brought it in. I am thankful that all of the occupants are OK...

riverroyal
04-04-2007, 05:44 PM
facts,what power was in it?How many hours on the drive?Just curious,im glad everyone was ok,must have been cold in the water.Also nice 3rd post!!!To come on and say it was your boat,im sorry for your loss of your boat,but no injuries:D

dumbandyoung
04-04-2007, 05:51 PM
Well, I am no expert at this stuff but I know that there are many variations that contribute to any one incident. That being said, I remember the IMCO boat loosing a drive due to a broken MERCURY gimbal at the 2005 SCOPE poker run. That caused the 40 footer to turn hard enough to eject Fred Jr. into the ocean. That is a twin drive boat with dual rams and a tie bar....
more food for speculation :D
I saw this HTM at Absolute the morning they brought it in. I am thankful that all of the occupants are OK...
I remember hearing about the 2005 scope run the week after from Fred. That broken gimbal was the fault of the retard I talked about earlier in the tread. Glad Jr. was ok. Great people!

hittum
04-04-2007, 07:55 PM
INSURANCE...the boat is totalled--stress cracks down the port side...needs all new interior since it sat under water in gas and oil for about 9 hours...stereo is wasted, drive is wasted except for maybe the lower half???--everything needs to be replaced and possibly the motor as well??? I have a strory about the insurance but I need to wait to see what they say before I post anything about it--I'll post pics once I get em---Mike
I also dont think this would have happened if it were dual ram--liek somebody posted earlier the drive is completely of the back holding on by only the steering linkage--it could easily have twisted in turn causing us to make that sudden turn--

HTMNBR9
04-04-2007, 08:00 PM
damn glad to hear your ok ... make me concerned but im glad i have dual rams .... did you have full hydraulic helm or "hydraulic assist" cable helm? any pics of the boat after?

SHOTKALLIN
04-04-2007, 08:02 PM
We are just glad everyone is ok.:)

BADBLOWN572
04-04-2007, 08:50 PM
damn glad to hear your ok ... make me concerned but im glad i have dual rams .... did you have full hydraulic helm or "hydraulic assist" cable helm? any pics of the boat after?
99% of the time, single ram steering is not full hydraulic. It is usually hydraulic assist. This could be the exception to the rule, but I doubt it.

ULTRA26 # 1
04-04-2007, 09:13 PM
99% of the time, single ram steering is not full hydraulic. It is usually hydraulic assist. This could be the exception to the rule, but I doubt it.
Single ram generally is little different that than stock cable steering with a single external assist ram. In the case of this accident, it sounds like no ram steering may have been a safer alternative, also. ,02
John M

HTMNBR9
04-04-2007, 09:25 PM
i was asking the owner of the boat ..not advise

BADBLOWN572
04-05-2007, 06:36 AM
I remember the IMCO boat loosing a drive due to a broken MERCURY gimbal at the 2005 SCOPE poker run. That caused the 40 footer to turn hard enough to eject Fred Jr. into the ocean. That is a twin drive boat with dual rams and a tie bar....
If memory serves, the system was similar to the one posted below. It was twin ram with the rams mounted in the center. Since the rams are not pulling from both sides of the drives, if a gimbal blows out, the drive could still pivot. I am definitely not a marine engineer so all of this is just my .02 :)
http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.com/files/15551_3.jpg

Wet Dream
04-05-2007, 07:03 AM
i was asking the owner of the boat ..not advise
You won't last here long with that attitude, rookie.

dumbandyoung
04-05-2007, 12:38 PM
If memory serves, the system was similar to the one posted below. It was twin ram with the rams mounted in the center. Since the rams are not pulling from both sides of the drives, if a gimbal blows out, the drive could still pivot. I am definitely not a marine engineer so all of this is just my .02 :)
http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.com/files/15551_3.jpg
yes it was similar.

ratso
04-05-2007, 01:08 PM
You won't last here long with that attitude, rookie.
ROTFLMAO... You got a point there...:D