From $14hr to $42.... WTF Prevailing wage Question.

[WetWillie]

I have searched google and cant seem to find this answer. Maybe someone here can help me or point me in the right direction on were to look? ;)
I won a large project with a regular customer at a local University. The other contractor was disqualified for not having the proper certifications they needed. So the customer gave it to me even though I was a higher bid :eek: Got to love that....
But during the talk with the customer I am told that my labor rates were much higher. I tell him how can this be? This job is prevailing wage and there is only one rate you can use. (This pisses me off for another reason as 10yr on the job guy makes the same as my 2 month guy. How the hell does that make sense?)
So I call the phone number on the state website with info on prevailing wage. I talk to a gentlman and he tells me that is the right rate. I ask how does this make sense. I have a guy with 10 years experience and he makes the same money as a guy just hired with NO experience (laborer). He askes me if i am using the apprentice rates spread sheet at all and proceeds to show me a spredsheet that shows a 40% 50% %60 reduction from the Journeyman pay for an apprentice level tech. I am thinking this is exactally what I need. So I show the spredsheet to my HR gal and she says we dont have an apprenticship program so we cant use those rates. I say says who and she says the Apprentice program director.!!!:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :mad:
The Union contractor I bid aganst was able to put two Journeyman on the job $42hr ea and 4 apprentices at $21 = 6 men total is $164 an hr
My non Union guys all have to use the Prevailing wage rate on the spredsheet $42hr at 6 men that is $252 an hr.
Why the hell cant I have apprentices or diffrent levels of wages?? IS THIS THE USA STILL??? HOW CAN THEY DO THIS SHIT???
Now SOMONE tell me how a tech that pulls cable out of high school and gets paid $14hr regular can go to $42 an hour and have that make any sense?????
If I am bidding dollar for dollar on a job and the STUPID state wants to pay these rates I dont mind paying my guys?? I still make my money. But in a bid situation I am loosing margin agains the Unions and this is not right....
ANY thoughts ideas ANYTHING would be VERY appreciated..

[HM]

I'll come pull cable for $42/hour...and I have a college degree, and some other fancy shit. :D
But I agree with you...that sucks and is ambiguous. (need a guy with the ability to throw in a word that will professionally confuse your clients to the point of submission?)

[boatsnblondes]

Count me in...hell, if it pays, I'll quit the railroad...let me know...and I'm pretty good with words also....:D
Blame the unions..theres this movement to make everyone equal..no matter how much time...fight your fight well on this one, won't be the last time you see it..you'll need to draw off this one....

[YeLLowBoaT]

Seems kind of odd to me.... might want to talk to the local biz agent of the local chapter of the union... he might no somethings...( if not higher some apprentices from the hall...)
Then again most trades, the union rules are way out of date...

[Outnumbered]

And people wonder why the US auto makers are in trouble:rolleyes: Gotta love that Union mentality.;)

[19daytona]

You don't want to hire guys from your local union, I checked with the Ironworkers Union for help for a goverment job I was bidding, You would have to pay the union a fee for using their men, plus pay all their health and welfare costs and the union rate of pay, And the men you get out of the union hiring hall are usually there because no one else wants them.

[beach gomer]

Is this your first prevailing wage job?

[squirtn20]

Prevalling wage there to protect the unions, I think it is only going to hurt them in the future. This is to keep certain people from our jobs for a fraction of the cost and sending thier wages home, being double that they would make there. you need to figure out were your guys you rate on a apprentice level. you should only need to pay what they are equal to of a union guy. If one guy working for you has 3 years in then he should be paid the same as a third year apprentice.

[Miss Perfect]

Welcome to the wonderful world of prevailing wage. I keep telling my boss that I should get paid prevailing wage just for having to deal with the paperwork. If the situation does not seem stupid enough, I've got a better one for you. We are required to pay into the training fund in order to work on these jobs, but there are no apprentices available in our trade......it's a focking joke.
I know for our trade, there are 2 classifications; workers and finishers. Workers are paid at a higher rate, so that is what we classify our more experienced guys as. You might look to see if there are multiple classifications for your trade.

[Baja Big Dog]

HA HA...I love it!!!

[boatnam2]

i dont know how it happens but my dads employes love working at schools instead of 15 they get 40 pretty good deal for them.

[Deano]

The Apprentice ratio of the other guy is not right. I think it's at least 4:1.
You should of had a rate sheet when you bid the project and stated "prevailing or non". I don't understand how you could even consider doing a job that you bid at 14 and hour when your guys are going to make a 40+ package.
Don't forget about all the employer taxes you're going to pay on the wage too. You might want to talk to the local Union about signing a one job agreement. Instead of giving your empoyees the extra fringe money, it goes to the Union. The real benefeit to you....it's all a write off. OR, you can follow your guys to the bank and have them kick you back half their check:D I've heard of some guys doing it.
Good luck on all your certified payroll too:D .

[acatitude]

well wet willy I just retired and if you get a job in sacramento ill pull any cable you want for 42 an hour lol maybe even give a kick back lol....... good luck only in america:)

[Havasu1986]

And people wonder why the US auto makers are in trouble:rolleyes: Gotta love that Union mentality.;)
Prevailing wage is set up by the state and is mandatory on schools and state projects. The union has nothing to do with it. As a union contractor I stay away from P.W. jobs for this reason. There is way to much work right now to be bidding against non-union companies. My engineers and field guys have been on O.T. for 6 months.:)

[Outnumbered]

Prevailing wage is set up by the state and is mandatory on schools and state projects. The union has nothing to do with it. As a union contractor I stay away from P.W. jobs for this reason. There is way to much work right now to be bidding against non-union companies. My engineers and field guys have been on O.T. for 6 months.:)
Unions have nothing to do with prevailing wage:confused: :confused: :confused:

[squirtn20]

The union does not have anything to do with it but prevailing wage is usually union wage.

[Havasu1986]

The union does not have anything to do with it but prevailing wage is usually union wage.
Thanks, Thats what I meant to say. :)

[squirtn20]

I work union and we lose jobs because of this as well. Being laid off kind of makes it hard to pay for $3.00 a gallon gas.

[Deano]

I work union and we lose jobs because of this as well. Being laid off kind of makes it hard to pay for $3.00 a gallon gas.
There really isn't any reason for a union company to loose a prevailing wage job. It's cheaper for them to do than a non-union company.

[highvoltagehands]

Prevailing wage is paid on all federal and state projects (except in non-union "right to work" states like AZ,TX...). It was designed to level the bidding field and insure that government projects would be built properly with skilled labor(UNION JOURNEYMAN). It is equal to the local unions journeyman wage rate and must be paid to all hands, except for apprentices enrolled in a state approved training program. California has the largest, most productive and highest paid UNION workforce in the country, making it the 7th largest economy in the world.
IBEW LU#1245 Powerlineman
American by birth. Union by choice.

[Havasu1986]

Prevailing wage is paid on all federal and state projects (except in non-union "right to work" states like AZ,TX...). It was designed to level the bidding field and insure that government projects would be built properly with skilled labor(UNION JOURNEYMAN). It is equal to the local unions journeyman wage rate and must be paid to all hands, except for apprentices enrolled in a state approved training program. California has the largest, most productive and highest paid UNION workforce in the country, making it the 7th largest economy in the world.
IBEW LU#1245 Powerlineman
American by birth. Union by choice.
Well said brother:)
Fire Sprinklers LU # 709

[Racey]

Didnt we just go over this on the 'Unions - What's your Opinion?' thread :D
What a bunch of BS, i'd be pissed

[rrrr]

Well said brother:)
Fire Sprinklers LU # 709
Did you enjoy your two weeks off? :D

[Havasu1986]

Didnt we just go over this on the 'Unions - What's your Opinion?' thread :D
What a bunch of BS, i'd be pissed
No..This is a prevailing wage discussion. Which involves both union and non union. :)

[Racer277]

Much of the info on here is correct.
Sorry Willie, you don't have an apprentice program. This is one of the benefits of a union company bidding the jobs, they can use apprentices depending on the work force, you cannot.
The union company that bids may also get a stipend from the union hall to help them pay their guys, you won't get that.
These are some of the benefits for a union company and union member.
The apprentice program ensures that this $25/hour guy has some kind of training, although not yet journeyman.
The prevailaing wage tries to ensure that at $40/hour you will have a skilled laborer, simply because you would be crazy (as an employer) to pay a guy that without qualifications.
Just make sure you are using signal tech wages for the cable pullers, electrical wages for the conduit installers. Signal techs shouldn't get paid full electricians wages, unless they are doing electrical work, but they aren't qualified for that.

[Sleek316]

I have searched google and cant seem to find this answer. Maybe someone here can help me or point me in the right direction on were to look? ;)
I won a large project with a regular customer at a local University. The other contractor was disqualified for not having the proper certifications they needed. So the customer gave it to me even though I was a higher bid :eek: Got to love that....
But during the talk with the customer I am told that my labor rates were much higher. I tell him how can this be? This job is prevailing wage and there is only one rate you can use. (This pisses me off for another reason as 10yr on the job guy makes the same as my 2 month guy. How the hell does that make sense?)
So I call the phone number on the state website with info on prevailing wage. I talk to a gentlman and he tells me that is the right rate. I ask how does this make sense. I have a guy with 10 years experience and he makes the same money as a guy just hired with NO experience (laborer). He askes me if i am using the apprentice rates spread sheet at all and proceeds to show me a spredsheet that shows a 40% 50% %60 reduction from the Journeyman pay for an apprentice level tech. I am thinking this is exactally what I need. So I show the spredsheet to my HR gal and she says we dont have an apprenticship program so we cant use those rates. I say says who and she says the Apprentice program director.!!!:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :mad:
The Union contractor I bid aganst was able to put two Journeyman on the job $42hr ea and 4 apprentices at $21 = 6 men total is $164 an hr
My non Union guys all have to use the Prevailing wage rate on the spredsheet $42hr at 6 men that is $252 an hr.
Why the hell cant I have apprentices or diffrent levels of wages?? IS THIS THE USA STILL??? HOW CAN THEY DO THIS SHIT???
Now SOMONE tell me how a tech that pulls cable out of high school and gets paid $14hr regular can go to $42 an hour and have that make any sense?????
If I am bidding dollar for dollar on a job and the STUPID state wants to pay these rates I dont mind paying my guys?? I still make my money. But in a bid situation I am loosing margin agains the Unions and this is not right....
ANY thoughts ideas ANYTHING would be VERY appreciated..
Join AGC (Association of General Contractors)
You register your apprentices to qualify for thier apprentiship program.
PS They have to go to the classes to maintain status
Good luck

[highvoltagehands]

Didnt we just go over this on the 'Unions - What's your Opinion?' thread :D
What a bunch of BS, i'd be pissed
BS, Pissed? Of course you are.
Like a clueless ratt hoping to get on a prevailing wage job.

[DAVEO]

And people wonder why the US auto makers are in trouble:rolleyes: Gotta love that Union mentality.;)
The unions have nothing to do with this its the bussiness people that dont want to pay there people so they are moving out of the co. It has nothing to do with the union it self.

[Holland]

I have searched google and cant seem to find this answer. Maybe someone here can help me or point me in the right direction on were to look? ;)
I won a large project with a regular customer at a local University. The other contractor was disqualified for not having the proper certifications they needed. So the customer gave it to me even though I was a higher bid :eek: Got to love that....
But during the talk with the customer I am told that my labor rates were much higher. I tell him how can this be? This job is prevailing wage and there is only one rate you can use. (This pisses me off for another reason as 10yr on the job guy makes the same as my 2 month guy. How the hell does that make sense?)
So I call the phone number on the state website with info on prevailing wage. I talk to a gentlman and he tells me that is the right rate. I ask how does this make sense. I have a guy with 10 years experience and he makes the same money as a guy just hired with NO experience (laborer). He askes me if i am using the apprentice rates spread sheet at all and proceeds to show me a spredsheet that shows a 40% 50% %60 reduction from the Journeyman pay for an apprentice level tech. I am thinking this is exactally what I need. So I show the spredsheet to my HR gal and she says we dont have an apprenticship program so we cant use those rates. I say says who and she says the Apprentice program director.!!!:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :mad:
The Union contractor I bid aganst was able to put two Journeyman on the job $42hr ea and 4 apprentices at $21 = 6 men total is $164 an hr
My non Union guys all have to use the Prevailing wage rate on the spredsheet $42hr at 6 men that is $252 an hr.
Why the hell cant I have apprentices or diffrent levels of wages?? IS THIS THE USA STILL??? HOW CAN THEY DO THIS SHIT???
Now SOMONE tell me how a tech that pulls cable out of high school and gets paid $14hr regular can go to $42 an hour and have that make any sense?????
If I am bidding dollar for dollar on a job and the STUPID state wants to pay these rates I dont mind paying my guys?? I still make my money. But in a bid situation I am loosing margin agains the Unions and this is not right....
ANY thoughts ideas ANYTHING would be VERY appreciated..
Good Luck... THat is the fault of the unions trying to keep non union contractors out! THey allow 5 apprentices at minimum wage to one Journeyman at PW rates. Non union contractors can get qualified for an apprenticeship program theu ABC. That is the only way you can get your entire crew out of the journey wage bracket...
Here is another trick. Your supervisors that are on site (Or off) that do not use tools... do not have to be paid the PW rates. If one of the 5 following things occur, then rates have to apply.
on the site, if your employee is 1. construction 2. destruction 3. installation 4. maintenance 5. service of building or equipment, then PW applies.
We do alot of PW work in the automation field. All my guys get the inside wireman rate of 46.50 per hour. They dont complain. As long as it is bid in there... it is a win win. PM me if you have other questions.

[dirty old man]

Thats why our company will not do prevailing wage jobs

[squirtn20]

Okay sorry, its not protecting the unions but they are in cahoots with the big cities. It's hard to get the licenses you need to work in the big cities. Prevailing wages usually ensures quality work. so the rates are set to that of what union would be. This keeps the "scabs" from doing it for half price with south of the border labor, whatver the trade may be. Can't have buildings blowing up, burning down, or a turd floating down the hall. :)

[djunkie]

Unions suck!!!!! Ya thats it. :rolleyes: :D :D :D

[Havasu1986]

Unions suck!!!!! Ya thats it. :rolleyes: :D :D :D
Try yelling that down at the ship yard and see what happens.:D

[highvoltagehands]

Unions suck!!!!! Ya thats it. :rolleyes: :D :D :D
I just forwarded your post over to the ILWU. Pumping gas at the marina is the only dock work you'll be doing.

[plaster dave]

I think what he is trying to saying is who is the union to say we don’t have our own apprenticeship in non union companies. There are different pay scales in union shop and non union shop for your level of knowledge so your pay should reflect it. Before you get piss off my uncle is a union guy my grandfather was a union rep and worker so I understand both sides.

[djunkie]

Try yelling that down at the ship yard and see what happens.:D
I just forwarded your post over to the ILWU. Pumping gas at the marina is the only dock work you'll be doing.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't get fired from that job if I tried. :D :D

[Faceaz]

My 02. is prevailing wage sucks. On PW jobs I have to pay a labor company nearly $60.00 an hour just to have a guy walk around & pick up trash, help with SWPPP, etc. If we go signatory with the union for a PW job, we can pay the $39 direct without mark-ups. To get the same work done on a private job, it costs about 15.00 per hour. You can take your chances. I know of a landscaper who pays his guys $8 per hr on PW jobs - if he gets caught he can face some pretty hefty fines.
Plus as mentioned before, there's a lot more paperwork with the Certified Pay-roll & the employees must be paid weekly. Some owners (LAUSD) are real sticklers on this, others don't even look.
If you know in advance & build it into the bid, there's a lot of money to be had in PW & there's less paperwork with the billings. Private owners want all the subcontractor billings, releases, etc. On the PW side, I bill on percentages only - much easier.

[Racer277]

Willie, keep pushing your Bicsi agenda.
They are trying to get their apprenticeship program to be equal (if not better). Up here, the unions try to use the Bicsi installer program for their low-voltage curriculum.
They are also trying to get the standards passed as codes. If they do that, you won't be able to find enough workers...

[Outnumbered]

I don't care what you call it;anytime you are paying someone more than the market rate you are using a union concept/mentality regardless if it is an actual union or the government. If the unions would have never created the concept I doubt the PW would exist as it does today.

[Havasu1986]

I don't care what you call it;anytime you are paying someone more than the market rate you are using a union concept/mentality regardless if it is an actual union or the government. If the unions would have never created the concept I doubt the PW would exist as it does today.
I see why you live in a right to work state.:eek: :)

[Outnumbered]

I see why you live in a right to work state.:eek: :)
All I am saying is it is foolish to pay these guys more than the market will bear when it is bringing down companies like Ford, Dodge, and GM.
Mark my words, in 10 years all the big three will be foreign owned. They will clean house and turn the companies around or simply take them overseas.
Unions were once a very good thing. Now they are abused in many, but not all, cases.

[Havasu1986]

All I am saying is it is foolish to pay these guys more than the market will bear when it is bringing down companies like Ford, Dodge, and GM.
Mark my words, in 10 years all the big three will be foreign owned. They will clean house and turn the companies around or simply take them overseas.
Unions were once a very good thing. Now they are abused in many, but not all, cases.
My dad worked at G.M. South Gate, CA. for 35 years until they closed it in the 80's. He is 84 now. Thank god for his pension and benefits, so I don't have to worry about it. I don't think now would be a good time to be in the UAW either. Now construction unions is a different story.:) BTW I still get my family discount when I buy G.M.:D

[djunkie]

I see why you live in a right to work state.:eek: :)
:D :D

[Outnumbered]

My dad worked at G.M. South Gate, CA. for 35 years until they closed it in the 80's. He is 84 now. Thank god for his pension and benefits, so I don't have to worry about it. I don't think now would be a good time to be in the UAW either. Now construction unions is a different story.:) BTW I still get my family discount when I buy G.M.:D
That was then, this is...

[boatnam2]

im union been in one for24 years but there is evil everywhere...my dads a union glazer(installed glass in high rise building)for 30+ years local 636 he isnt going to be getting a pension well he is getting one but not the 3 or 4k a month of rest of his life but 1100.00 for 2 years because the local embezeled the money.thnaks got for SS and the fact he started his own shop and put away a couple of bucks to live on.
__________________

[Havasu1986]

My dad worked at G.M. South Gate, CA. for 35 years until they closed it in the 80's. He is 84 now. Thank god for his pension and benefits, so I don't have to worry about it. I don't think now would be a good time to be in the UAW either. Now construction unions is a different story.:) BTW I still get my family discount when I buy G.M.:D
Here I highlighted it for you outnumbered.:)

[vmjtc3]

You don't want to hire guys from your local union, I checked with the Ironworkers Union for help for a goverment job I was bidding, You would have to pay the union a fee for using their men, plus pay all their health and welfare costs and the union rate of pay, And the men you get out of the union hiring hall are usually there because no one else wants them.
Fock you. Get a clue !
John<-------------- Proud union member IBEW 357

[wolfie]

:D :D
I was waiting to see when you'd pop in.

[WetWillie]

All you have to do is keep the Union guys off me. Rate is decent unless the board goes PW....
I'll come pull cable for $42/hour...and I have a college degree, and some other fancy shit. :D
But I agree with you...that sucks and is ambiguous. (need a guy with the ability to throw in a word that will professionally confuse your clients to the point of submission?)

[WetWillie]

Not my first PW job by a long shot! I have always paid my guys full pop without thinking about it. I just won this deal even though I was high bidder. Purchasing department said I was much higher on labor and hours.
We compared notes and found out the Union contrator I was bidding against was using a lower hourly rate then mine!!
I looked again at the PW sheet and found we have one rate to choose from :devil: and its a higher rate. So my company being Non union has to use a rate higher then the Union guys!!! :idea: Should like price fixing to me!!
I just want to be able to decide my burden rate and quote my jobs!!! I dont want to be told to use a rate and then have the Unions use a lower rate loop hole to get an advantage!!!
make sense???
Is this your first prevailing wage job?

[vmjtc3]

I think what he is trying to saying is who is the union to say we don’t have our own apprenticeship in non union companies. There are different pay scales in union shop and non union shop for your level of knowledge so your pay should reflect it. Before you get piss off my uncle is a union guy my grandfather was a union rep and worker so I understand both sides.
There is a non union (merit shop) apprenticeship. It is nation wide through The Associated Builders and Contractors.

[WetWillie]

I think the 4:1 ration was the old one but I may be wrong.. I am non Union and just look at the ratios when i need to!
The Apprentice ratio of the other guy is not right. I think it's at least 4:1.
You should of had a rate sheet when you bid the project and stated "prevailing or non". I don't understand how you could even consider doing a job that you bid at 14 and hour when your guys are going to make a 40+ package.
Don't forget about all the employer taxes you're going to pay on the wage too. You might want to talk to the local Union about signing a one job agreement. Instead of giving your empoyees the extra fringe money, it goes to the Union. The real benefeit to you....it's all a write off. OR, you can follow your guys to the bank and have them kick you back half their check:D I've heard of some guys doing it.
Good luck on all your certified payroll too:D .

[WetWillie]

Even when you call the State to ask questions about PW the state rep says " This is how the unions negotiated all of this" He didnt understand it either!! Must have been a State Union worker!!:D
The union does not have anything to do with it but prevailing wage is usually union wage.

[WetWillie]

How the hell is this fair!!
There really isn't any reason for a union company to loose a prevailing wage job. It's cheaper for them to do than a non-union company.

[vmjtc3]

http://www.dir.ca.gov/DLSR/PWD/
Snoop around here a little. Prevailing wage has nothing to do with the union. And it is Higher than union scale. That is why the union bids with a lower price factor for labor .

[vmjtc3]

I think the 4:1 ration was the old one but I may be wrong.. I am non Union and just look at the ratios when i need to!
Ten jw's 3 app make up 1 crew.

[WetWillie]

My argument is that I dont think I need to pay a kid out of high school $42 an hour. Maybe that the union way but not mine! I bring laborers in for a decent wage. They start to learn a new trade. As they learn more they make more. Just like the Union way belive it or not. I have employees that make from $10hr to over $100hr I pay them for there worth and value!!! I dont pay them if they make it to 500hrs on the job!!
I like the idea of the continuos training the union offers but I dont care for some of the other things I have seen out of Union labor.
The unions have nothing to do with this its the bussiness people that dont want to pay there people so they are moving out of the co. It has nothing to do with the union it self.

[vmjtc3]

Even when you call the State to ask questions about PW the state rep says " This is how the unions negotiated all of this" He didnt understand it either!! Must have been a State Union worker!!:D
Must have been a f ucktard not a union worker.

[vmjtc3]

My argument is that I dont think I need to pay a kid out of high school $42 an hour. Maybe that the union way but not mine! I bring laborers in for a decent wage. They start to learn a new trade. As they learn more they make more. Just like the Union way belive it or not. I have employees that make from $10hr to over $100hr I pay them for there worth and value!!! I dont pay them if they make it to 500hrs on the job!!
I like the idea of the continuos training the union offers but I dont care for some of the other things I have seen out of Union labor.
You dont have to pay a kid out of highschool 42 an hour. You just need to have him enroled in an accredited apprenticship program then you pay him as an app. Not a jw. Simple as that. Otherwise the state makes no distinction between some one with 3 5 or 8 years in the trade. If you employ him as a tradesman then you are considering him a jw. If you use app then they are not jw's and they make a percent of scale.

[Deano]

My argument is that I dont think I need to pay a kid out of high school $42 an hour. .
That's one of the bad things...shit, I joined the operating engineers when I was 19. Talk about some pissed off operators that were on the job for 30 years. I didn't know shit, but I made the same scale. Pretty stupid.
We go through the same thing now. But, the good guys go over scale, plus truck, gas, etc.. One of our Foreman drives a damn 07 escalade for fuks sake:devil:

[WetWillie]

I have been on that page many times. It says right on the top of it Journeyman and aprentise!! Those look Union to me!! ;) I also spoke to a perosn at the State and he stated to me that these are the rates the Unions have negotiated!
You dont think the Unions created it this way so a Non Union shops would have to use one rate and the unions could use others???
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DLSR/PWD/
Snoop around here a little. Prevailing wage has nothing to do with the union. And it is Higher than union scale. That is why the union bids with a lower price factor for labor .

[Havasu1986]

http://www.dir.ca.gov/DLSR/PWD/
Snoop around here a little. Prevailing wage has nothing to do with the union. And it is Higher than union scale. That is why the union bids with a lower price factor for labor .
I'm not sure what you mean by Union bids. I am a Union fire sprinkler estimator. Maybe 30% of my bid has a Union factor. The other 70% consists of material, engineering, shop, freight, permits, lift equipment etc. The company I work is so busy right now we are marking up the jobs 60%. Who do you think is making the most $$ on my jobs. THE OWNERS. And we do ok also.:D

[vmjtc3]

I have been on that page many times. It says right on the top of it Journeyman and aprentise!! Those look Union to me!! ;) I also spoke to a perosn at the State and he stated to me that these are the rates the Unions have negotiated!
You dont think the Unions created it this way so a Non Union shops would have to use one rate and the unions could use others???
What part of there are non union app programs dont you understand ? And a dissagreement based not on fact is an opinion, not a dissagrement.

[vmjtc3]

I'm not sure what you mean by Union bids. I am a Union fire sprinkler estimator. Maybe 30% of my bid has a Union factor. The other 70% consists of material, engineering, shop, freight, permits, lift equipment etc. The company I work is so busy right now we are marking up the jobs 60%. Who do you think is making the most $$ on my jobs. THE OWNERS. And we do ok also.:D
Union contractor is what I meant. Brother :D
And imagine trying to explain PLA's to these guy's :eek:

[Havasu1986]

Union contractor is what I meant. Brother :D
And imagine trying to explain PLA's to these guy's :eek:
LOL. I just finished a PLA with Fluor Corp. The new O.C. Performing Art Center in Costa Mesa. We made a bundle for my owners and was on time for Placidgo Domingo grand opening. I got a cold call today from a contractor wanting me to price 3 new banks that he is building in the O.C. I had to cut him off and tell him that we are a union shop. He told me that is why he was calling me because he didn't want to lose these new accounts. He said good work isn't cheap and cheap work isn't good.:)

[vmjtc3]

LOL. I just finished a PLA with Fluor Corp. The new O.C. Performing Art Center in Costa Mesa. We made a bundle for my owners and was on time for Placidgo Domingo grand opening. I got a cold call today from a contractor wanting me to price 3 new banks that he is building in the O.C. I had to cut him off and tell him that we are a union shop. He told me that is why he was calling me because he didn't want to lose these new accounts. He said good work isn't cheap and cheap work isn't good.:)
I do fire alarm systems so I work with you fitters all the time. Most of the work we do is with desert fire protection. My uncle is a union contractor out of the city of orange. He does a lot of fire alarm as well. Bruce gentry is His name. I think his company is B&D electric.

[Havasu1986]

I do fire alarm systems so I work with you fitters all the time. Most of the work we do is with desert fire protection. My uncle is a union contractor out of the city of orange. He does a lot of fire alarm as well. Bruce gentry is His name. I think his company is B&D electric.
PM me his # I am always getting calls for alarm and detection companys. I will put it my companys outlook.:)

[vmjtc3]

PM me his # I am always getting calls for alarm and detection companys. I will put it my companys outlook.:)
I will have to dig it up. But like most good contractors, he is up to his eyeballs in work. Dont know if he is taking much new work.

[WetWillie]

I understand the non union app program bs! What part of why in the hell do I need an app program or why do my guys need to attend an app program dont you understand?
We have other ways of doing training. I don’t force my method on you why does the Union force there’s on us!! I am being forced to join the apprenticeship program if I want to compete in these public prevailing wage jobs!! It gives someone using the apprenticeship program an advantage!!!
I think it is total bullshiet that I can bid and win a public job! But cannot use an apprentice spread sheet to lower my guys wages to a fair rate based on there experience like the unions can. BUT I can us the apprenticeship spreadsheet if I join the program?? :idea:
I can get around this I just have to pay my guys full Journeyman rate!! Yea that makes sense!
Sorry you don’t see my point. You must think someone else other then the unions negotiated these ridicules rates and
This crap about the Unions do better work is a Joke! I think there are bad contractors on both sides of the fence
What part of there are non union app programs dont you understand ? And a dissagreement based not on fact is an opinion, not a dissagrement.

[vmjtc3]

I think it is total bullshiet that I can bid and win a public job! But cannot use an apprentice spread sheet to lower my guys wages to a fair rate based on there experience like the unions can. BUT I can us the apprenticeship spreadsheet if I join the program?? :idea:
This crap about the Unions do better work is a Joke! I think there are bad contractors on both sides of the fence
The reason for this is that every pos rat contractor would use an " apprentice spread sheet" to f uck his guys to tears. Instead of pay them what they deserve. And we do better work beacause we dont have some fly-by-night contractor saying we can train them our way. The Jatc is closley regulated and accreddited.
Not to mention the fact that you dont have to "join any program" and there is no cost to you other than wage and benifits package of a apprentice.
I realize this is the same propaganda you spew to you help to keep them away from the union's. But the cream alway's rises to the top and the good ones end up in the union's !!!! And just so you uniformed people can see the light. A pos union worker will get turned away by the contractor. Just beacause the hall sends someone out on a call does not mean
the contractor has to take them. And the pos workers end up back at the hall in a hury. So bs!! on the union workers are lazey fockers who dont do a focking thing all day. Union contractors have to make a profit just like the non union does. So they wont stand for anyone who is subpar or not doing there job. And fireing someone in the union takes a bit of paperwork, There is always the layoff option.

[vmjtc3]

Oh and one more thing, you my friend are the reason I like the union so much. I dont have to wory about my company bidding a job at $42 an hour for my pay, and the spread sheeting me in the ass down to $12 an hour :(

[vmjtc3]

I have been on that page many times. It says right on the top of it Journeyman and aprentise!! Those look Union to me!! ;) I also spoke to a perosn at the State and he stated to me that these are the rates the Unions have negotiated!
You dont think the Unions created it this way so a Non Union shops would have to use one rate and the unions could use others???
Hey there smart guy look on the front page where it says
General prevailing wage determinations
made by the director of industrial relations
Pursuant to California Labor Code part 7,
chapter 1, article 2, sections 1770, 1773, and 1773.1
I am not sure ,but I think that mean's the union does not determine the pw just to fu ck you on a bid.

[dicudmore]

Hey there smart guy look on the front page where it says
General prevailing wage determinations
made by the director of industrial relations
Pursuant to California Labor Code part 7,
chapter 1, article 2, sections 1770, 1773, and 1773.1
I am not sure ,but I think that mean's the union does not determine the pw just to fu ck you on a bid.
you're one feisty SOB on the boards tonight--perhaps you need to shut the laptop off and go wake up that hot wife to ease your nerves a bit :wink: Those 10's are getting to you...are you working this weekend or going to the lake??

[vmjtc3]

you're one feisty SOB on the boards tonight--perhaps you need to shut the laptop off and go wake up that hot wife to ease your nerves a bit :wink: Those 10's are getting to you...are you working this weekend or going to the lake??
Not realy fiesty, just not impressed with someone implying or actualy stating I am a piece of shit beacause I am a union worker. :D And then try to argue the point based on opinion not fact.:rolleyes: But hey why throw around facts it only hot boat:D
And you could have quoted my spread sheeting me in the ass comment, I though that one was the funniest ;)

[dicudmore]

Not realy fiesty, just not impressed with someone implying or actualy stating I am a piece of shit beacause I am a union worker. :D And then try to argue the point based on opinion not fact.:rolleyes: But hey why throw around facts it only hot boat:D
And you could have quoted my spread sheeting me in the ass comment, I though that one was the funniest ;)
it was, I just hit the quote button from the wrong post...

[vmjtc3]

you're one feisty SOB on the boards tonight--perhaps you need to shut the laptop off and go wake up that hot wife to ease your nerves a bit :wink: Those 10's are getting to you...are you working this weekend or going to the lake??
Oh and she still wants to know where we are going for dinner? Seems the hot little school teacher has been buging her all week about you taking her out ;)

[dicudmore]

Oh and she still wants to know where we are going for dinner? Seems the hot little school teacher has been buging her all week about you taking her out ;)
cool, tell her I said Havasu Springs and we're taking the Spectre :D :D

[vmjtc3]

cool, tell her I said Havasu Springs and we're taking the Spectre :D :D
Were down :D what time do we meet at the ramp????

[dicudmore]

Were down :D what time do we meet at the ramp????
on my way now!

[vmjtc3]

on my way now!
Me also, TO BED !! I gotta get up at 3:45 and go to work as a pos union worker. :rolleyes:

[dicudmore]

Me also, TO BED !! I gotta get up at 3:45 and go to work as a pos union worker. :rolleyes:
cya tomorrow

[riverroyal]

i guess my scale is good:D

[djunkie]

i guess my scale is good:D
:D :D

[carteaco]

Hey Wet,
I dont know what your craft is. But some Unions will provide you with Apprentices even if you are not signatory.Call the Union hall and talk to the BA. They dont bite and you just might work out a deal that makes everybody happy .ie; Owner , Contractor , Worker ,
IBEW #100