Coward Harry Ried says war is lost.....

[boatsnblondes]

Read this (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070419184534.ileoeb47&show_article=1).........

[bordsmnj]

can't we just fire that liberal cock sucker?:D

[burtandnancy2]

Are you referring to the Civil War in Iraq? The one in which the Iraqis have already killed over 600,000 of their own people. The one the U.S. is trying to settle for them at the cost of over 3200 of our young men and women and at a cost of $100,000,000,000+ per year?
I don't like Harry Reid or any of his ilk, but the facts are unsettling...

[boatsnblondes]

AS an old friend once said....want peace?? Better get ready for war...there is no peace, for us, for anyone, as long as people like Harry exist....you better just accept that this is a dirty business by it's nature, and thank God this ain't Nam..by this time in the conflict, some 45,000 body bags had come back....

[SmokinLowriderSS]

No kidding B&B, the AVERAGE for Vietnam was 5,000 A YEAR, and that includes the thin years in the 70's. The late 60's were a damn sight more dangerous.
How about this unsettling fact Burt?
There are people, with plenty of money, due to being supported by nations who have plenty of money, WHO WANT YOU AND I DEAD, period.
No negotiation, just simply room-temperature DEAD! Simply bacause you don't follow the same religion they do.
They want you DEAD!
Now, what do you think should be done about people who have announced THEY INTEND TO KILL YOU?
Should they be allowed to come here? to kill here? to be fought HERE, ON YOUR DOORSTEP AND MINE?
Should we wait untill they kill your neighbor?
Your spouse?
Your child?
YOU?
Or, should they be kept, 9,000 miles away, fought 9,000 miles away, by the most powerful millitary force in existence on this planet?
The ONLY enemy our millitary CANNOT DEFEAT is the gutless coward bastards who are in charge of it who will FORCE THEM TO GIVE UP. :devil:
I suspect that if your next door neighbor walked up to you one day and said to your face "I am going to kill you, and your family, and your friends, and everyone you know, one of these days", you would not just go into your house and hope he was kidding.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Oh, and B&B, if you spent any "personal time" :D in that particular little SE asian "vacation spot" :D back in the vicinity of 1970, Thx man, I appreciate it.:)

[burtandnancy2]

Smoken Low, don't get me wrong. I agree with you 100%. I preach to my (misguided grandkids who are semi brain washed in school about the muslim countries) all the time how they want us dead, here or there. I could go on for hours on this subject, but its all been argued before ad nauseum. I will conclude by stating that one of the first things our government should (but won't) do is close up our borders, but instead, our President wants to turn the US into a new country made up of Canada, US and Mexico. Disgusting...

[boatsnblondes]

Vote democrat next year, and it will get a lot worse...everything I said would happen if the Dems won last year is happening..they are showing thier true colors, yellow, yellow, and yellow...another year of this crap, and dems won't be able to get elected as dog catchers....:mad:

[Brian]

I think we should pull out and use the place for a bombing range for a while until they stop causing trouble. Why risk our soldiers' lives in a ground battle that really can't be won when we're playing by the rules and they're hiding amongst civilians? If we cause enough pain, maybe they'll stop. Then again, maybe they won't, and we can keep bombing until they all stop moving, and then we can have our own little oil rich state in the middle east! I suppose the rest of the world might have a problem with that approach.
:D

[boatsnblondes]

I think we should pull out and use the place for a bombing range for a while until they stop causing trouble. Why risk our soldiers' lives in a ground battle that really can't be won when we're playing by the rules and they're hiding amongst civilians? If we cause enough pain, maybe they'll stop. Then again, maybe they won't, and we can keep bombing until they all stop moving, and then we can have our own little oil rich state in the middle east! I suppose the rest of the world might have a problem with that approach.
:D
I figure we got an ENTIRE army just in our prisons...tell them they survive however many years based on they're crime, they're free....works for me...:D :D

[Racey]

Harrie Reid is a little (rhymes with runt)
this is what needs to be done to that chithole
http://trollstomp.com/bulldoze.jpg

[dirty old man]

Problem with not keeping them over there, is that the sneaky little bastards (25 - 40 year old radical islamic muslims) can do so much damage, one bomb at a time. They can never invade us, just cause our way of live to be changed forever. I remember when I didn't have to take my shoes off in an airport, didn't get searched going into a public building, etc

[77Woodbridge]

No kidding B&B, the AVERAGE for Vietnam was 5,000 A YEAR, and that includes the thin years in the 70's. The late 60's were a damn sight more dangerous.
How about this unsettling fact Burt?
There are people, with plenty of money, due to being supported by nations who have plenty of money, WHO WANT YOU AND I DEAD, period.
No negotiation, just simply room-temperature DEAD! Simply bacause you don't follow the same religion they do.
They want you DEAD!
Now, what do you think should be done about people who have announced THEY INTEND TO KILL YOU?
Should they be allowed to come here? to kill here? to be fought HERE, ON YOUR DOORSTEP AND MINE?
Should we wait untill they kill your neighbor?
Your spouse?
Your child?
YOU?
Or, should they be kept, 9,000 miles away, fought 9,000 miles away, by the most powerful millitary force in existence on this planet?
The ONLY enemy our millitary CANNOT DEFEAT is the gutless coward bastards who are in charge of it who will FORCE THEM TO GIVE UP. :devil:
I suspect that if your next door neighbor walked up to you one day and said to your face "I am going to kill you, and your family, and your friends, and everyone you know, one of these days", you would not just go into your house and hope he was kidding.
X2

[bigq]

Problem with not keeping them over there, is that the sneaky little bastards (25 - 40 year old radical islamic muslims) can do so much damage, one bomb at a time. They can never invade us, just cause our way of live to be changed forever. I remember when I didn't have to take my shoes off in an airport, didn't get searched going into a public building, etc
I agree, but I think they are invading us just not forcing there way onto our shores. Take a look at UK and closer to home the Detroit area. Time is on there side. How long have they been fighting to force the world to comply? The thing is we will just bend over and take it in the name of political correctness and very bad immigration control.
As far as Iraq, I think we are done there also. They will never let them win which would take a lot of killing on our part. Brian has a point, but that would never happen from a world setiment point.:(
Got to hand it to smokin for his faith...

[skygod73]

No kidding B&B, the AVERAGE for Vietnam was 5,000 A YEAR, and that includes the thin years in the 70's. The late 60's were a damn sight more dangerous.
How about this unsettling fact Burt?
There are people, with plenty of money, due to being supported by nations who have plenty of money, WHO WANT YOU AND I DEAD, period.
No negotiation, just simply room-temperature DEAD! Simply bacause you don't follow the same religion they do.
They want you DEAD!
Now, what do you think should be done about people who have announced THEY INTEND TO KILL YOU?
Should they be allowed to come here? to kill here? to be fought HERE, ON YOUR DOORSTEP AND MINE?
Should we wait untill they kill your neighbor?
Your spouse?
Your child?
YOU?
Or, should they be kept, 9,000 miles away, fought 9,000 miles away, by the most powerful millitary force in existence on this planet?
The ONLY enemy our millitary CANNOT DEFEAT is the gutless coward bastards who are in charge of it who will FORCE THEM TO GIVE UP. :devil:
I suspect that if your next door neighbor walked up to you one day and said to your face "I am going to kill you, and your family, and your friends, and everyone you know, one of these days", you would not just go into your house and hope he was kidding.
You nailed it. Fight em there, or deal with the suicide bombers in our streets, malls, and schools.

[dirty old man]

One more thing that would help us out here: PROFILING

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Smoken Low, don't get me wrong. I agree with you 100%. I preach to my (misguided grandkids who are semi brain washed in school about the muslim countries) all the time how they want us dead, here or there. I could go on for hours on this subject, but its all been argued before ad nauseum. I will conclude by stating that one of the first things our government should (but won't) do is close up our borders, but instead, our President wants to turn the US into a new country made up of Canada, US and Mexico. Disgusting...
Is cool burt :) , and yes, it's been discussed heavilly already, but I still hold a tight reign on the bottom line of it being necissary, even if it maybe/coulda/shoulda been run differently, or not.
Armchair QB'ing it is easy from here, much harder when you are the one in charge.
That south border and amnesty intents pisses me off something fierce too. We agree there.

[lewiville]

Im on the same page here. However, I try to look at this situation in a very simple way, 1. we did not find what Powell said was there in the first place, why are we really there? 2. The reason why we are there changes like the weather 3. I lost count where we are as far as spending on this war. I know we just approved another but load of billions. Pretty simple

[Cole Sanger]

Harry Ried may not be completely right, but there is no real winning achievement mark that I see to winning this. Atleast with Vietnam, they had a goal. Does anyone actually think that the US military can or will get rid of all of the people that hate us? I mean all of them? It only took a handful of guys with airline tickets to take out the world trade center. Can we honestly get rid of all of those handfuls of guys? Tim Mcvay did the Oaklahoma bombing with him an one other guy. Could we have known about him and that one other guy and taken them out? How about North Korea? Can we go in there and take out that one leader and will it change their thinking? This isn't WWI or II. We have no goal in this. What we are doing now is giving them higher and higher enlistment numbers. We give them a reason to join the other crazies. I look at it this way. We are over there creating the movie Red Dawn. Think about what you would do if the US were invaded. You would take up a gun and fight for your country right? Isn't that what they are doing? We have become the Russian invaders. Everyone has really started to hate the US. Just like the old days when everyone hated the Russians. There is no winning this as I can see it.
I would like to ask a real question......
What would you say would be "winning" in Iraq?

[burtandnancy2]

I agree. How do we know when we've won or lost?

[boatsnblondes]

Harry Ried may not be completely right, but there is no real winning achievement mark that I see to winning this. Atleast with Vietnam, they had a goal. Does anyone actually think that the US military can or will get rid of all of the people that hate us? I mean all of them? It only took a handful of guys with airline tickets to take out the world trade center. Can we honestly get rid of all of those handfuls of guys? Tim Mcvay did the Oaklahoma bombing with him an one other guy. Could we have known about him and that one other guy and taken them out? How about North Korea? Can we go in there and take out that one leader and will it change their thinking? This isn't WWI or II. We have no goal in this. What we are doing now is giving them higher and higher enlistment numbers. We give them a reason to join the other crazies. I look at it this way. We are over there creating the movie Red Dawn. Think about what you would do if the US were invaded. You would take up a gun and fight for your country right? Isn't that what they are doing? We have become the Russian invaders. Everyone has really started to hate the US. Just like the old days when everyone hated the Russians. There is no winning this as I can see it.
I would like to ask a real question......
What would you say would be "winning" in Iraq?
Cole, this is not nationalism on thier part. This is something much deeper. This is the centuries old war between Christians and muslims. And deep hatred it is. they are not fighting Americans, they are fighting the "Infidels" thier word for us. AS the saying goes, Christians celebrate life, muslims celebrate death. AS long as we treat them like decent human beings, and not vermin, we have a real problem in this world. As proof of the depravity of these people, read this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6579487.stm), then tell me were dealing with a group of people who should be allowed to live....

[71tahiti]

You cant win WHEN you have a liberal media and a liberal congress trying to run the war. We would be speaking GERMAN if we had this kind of MEDIA and CONGRESS in WWII. Let Military and commander in chief run the war and we would Establish an elected pro western government and create a stable country in the middle east.
Cole or Burt.... OUR military has been in this with its hands tied becuase of the ROE. 7 or so criteria that a soldier must go thru before acting..THATS BS... What is going to happen in Iraq and the middle east if we pull out? Is that senario better than doing what we have to do to succeed? I THINK NOT.... This is similar to Nam in that the Focking Liberal Media is turning america against this war and its president.
If you cant see the goal, then you need to bury the rest of your body in the sand...

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I lost count where we are as far as spending on this war. I know we just approved another but load of billions. Pretty simple
No, we did not.

[Cole Sanger]

Cole, this is not nationalism on thier part. This is something much deeper. This is the centuries old war between Christians and muslims. And deep hatred it is. they are not fighting Americans, they are fighting the "Infidels" thier word for us. AS the saying goes, Christians celebrate life, muslims celebrate death. AS long as we treat them like decent human beings, and not vermin, we have a real problem in this world. As proof of the depravity of these people, read this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6579487.stm), then tell me were dealing with a group of people who should be allowed to live....
So what would be "winning" in Iraq?
Centuries old is true. But this war is not going to solve anything. We don't understand them, and they don't understand us. They believe one thing and we believe another. I don't understand their beliefs and they don't understand mine - for the most part, but not true for all. As long as we treat them like decent human beings, and not vermin? That is the real problem in this world. That kind of thinking. From their side and from ours. Saying something like that makes me think of slavery. A slave owner might have said the same thing about his slaves. Or even what the Brittish government would have said about the new world. Allowed to live? That is great in two ways. One it is coming from a "Christan" American. Two, it sounds like something a "Muslum celebrating death" would say.

[Cole Sanger]

You cant win WHEN you have a liberal media and a liberal congress trying to run the war. We would be speaking GERMAN if we had this kind of MEDIA and CONGRESS in WWII. Let Military and commander in chief run the war and we would Establish an elected pro western government and create a stable country in the middle east.
Cole or Burt.... OUR military has been in this with its hands tied becuase of the ROE. 7 or so criteria that a soldier must go thru before acting..THATS BS... What is going to happen in Iraq and the middle east if we pull out? Is that senario better than doing what we have to do to succeed? I THINK NOT.... This is similar to Nam in that the Focking Liberal Media is turning america against this war and its president.
If you cant see the goal, then you need to bury the rest of your body in the sand...
You do know that a whole lot of Americans voted for the people in Congress right? That just happened. You do know that very few people would vote for Bush again right (see his poll numbers)? Why do you think that is? Is that because the liberal media said that was the right thing for Americans to do? Or could it be that Americans made a choice on their own?
You’re saying that we can put a government in place that is pro western right? Why haven't we done that yet? Last I checked the democrats were just voted in majority late last year.
The 7 ROE's is not what is holding us back over there. We had the uniform code of military justice long before that. The problem is that no one can say what a winning scenario is. I don't know if leaving is going to help either. But I don't see how staying there forever is going to help.
I can't see the goal. Can you tell me what it is? I don't mean in a rant. I mean in an honest personal discussion. I really want to know what "winning" in Iraq is for you and how we can make it happen.

[OKIE-JET]

The first goal was to remove a madman and his money from power so that he couldnt provide a host nation to terrorists, the second is to trash their abilities to kill people from a distance.

[71tahiti]

Trust me that wasnt my RANT!!!! What parts of the country voted democrat? If you look at the map of voters only places that voted Dem in ALOT of states was the metro area's... Chicago is Democrat Ill was carried by Bush and rep... same in alot of other areas... St Louis... So TO say that america is behind the Dem's is False.. I cant believe that NEVADA voters agree with Reid. Do most Nevadan's support Reid?? Do Most Calif. support finestein? Still cant figure out who is Voting for the AHOLES. To think that these people have the VISION FOR AMERICA is just purely uninformed. Only thing Dems can say is Whats Wrong!!!! Never a Plan of their own.... Typical Socialist Bullshit......Just look at their candidates...... How Pathetic....
Did this subject ever come up during Slick Willie's Kosovo issue? Face it We live in time where the media shows most americans the news they want them to see..... NOT JOURNALISM... Big reason you probably have the views you have...

[Cole Sanger]

We will never win if that is the goal. Cut the head off of one and another grows in it's place. Plane tickets are only a couple of thousand from anywhere in the world. How can you stop them from that distance?

[Cole Sanger]

Trust me that wasnt my RANT!!!! What parts of the country voted democrat? If you look at the map of voters only places that voted Dem in ALOT of states was the metro area's... Chicago is Democrat Ill was carried by Bush and rep... same in alot of other areas... St Louis... So TO say that america is behind the Dem's is False.. I cant believe that NEVADA voters agree with Reid. Do most Nevadan's support Reid?? Do Most Calif. support finestein? Still cant figure out who is Voting for the AHOLES. To think that these people have the VISION FOR AMERICA is just purely uninformed. Only thing Dems can say is Whats Wrong!!!! Never a Plan of their own.... Typical Socialist Bullshit......Just look at their candidates...... How Pathetic....
Did this subject ever come up during Slick Willie's Kosovo issue? Face it We live in time where the media shows most americans the news they want them to see..... NOT JOURNALISM... Big reason you probably have the views you have...
Dem in ALOT of states is all that was needed. To say that america is behind Rep and Bush is less likely than them not being behind the Dem's. Look at the map of who voted for who and that should show you who is voting for these "AHOLES". Vision of America, no one has that figured out. Dem's can only say what is wrong? That goes both ways. Everyone says that. Plan of their own? I have asked you a few times now what is your plan. What would be "winning" and what would you do if you were in charge. As for the rest of your rant, it is not really on subject. I will say that I only watch liberal TV for my world views.
One other thing...What is your real screen name? 50+ posts and this is what we get?

[Howie Feltersnatch]

This "war" that never was is over. Now it's all about trying to get out while attempting cover one's ass at the same time. Bush is so worried about his legacy - he needn't be. He's LBJ without any of the positives.
He could have pulled it out of the ditch by starting to bring troops home a year ago when it was obvious to even the slowest among us that it was over, but his Kennebunkport cowboy bravado wouldn't let him face the obvious facts. He wanted a shootout at the OK corral & now he's got it. The only problem is US troops are the only ones standing in the corral. Everyone else is shooting at them from sniper perches or detonating bombs under their feet. It doesn't matter how long the US stays in Iraq, a year, 10 years, or 100 years - the outcome will be the same: ongoing violence between religious factions who's hatred of each other dates back thousands of years.
All any of them needed to do was a little research into the region before loading up the ships & airplanes and sounding the charge. Maybe even something as simple as watching the news on TV or reading a newspaper which Bush so proudly boasts he never does. What a disaster for this country and the world.
Think how how much good could have been done with the trillions of dollars wasted over there had we used that money here at home - or better yet, just not spent it at all.

[twowheeledfish]

Cole and Howie: I fear you are preaching to a deaf audience here, but I agree with you both. The problem is, no matter how many obvious facts you point out, all a war supporter has to do to discredit your argument is call "liberal" five times really loud. This is about to change. The thinking fraction of American has had enough of this nonsense, and we proved it last election (and we'll prove it again during the next).

[Cole Sanger]

Cole, this is not nationalism on thier part. This is something much deeper. This is the centuries old war between Christians and muslims. And deep hatred it is. they are not fighting Americans, they are fighting the "Infidels" thier word for us. AS the saying goes, Christians celebrate life, muslims celebrate death. AS long as we treat them like decent human beings, and not vermin, we have a real problem in this world. As proof of the depravity of these people, read this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6579487.stm), then tell me were dealing with a group of people who should be allowed to live....
I thought a little bit about what you said about this not being Nationalism. I think you are wrong. Yes, they are fighting us, but they are really fighting themselves a whole lot more. Look at how many Americans die over there each day and then look at how many of the Iraq people die every day.

[Seadog]

The Reid mentality:
Our troops were soundly defeated in France, and we barely evacuated at Dunkirk. We are defeated.
Our attempt at Dieppe was a failure, we are defeated.
Our troops were scattered at Kasserine Pass. We must accept defeat.
Our troops suffered greatly at the hands of second rate German troops at Normandy. We have to pull our troops out.
Our Pacific fleet is destroyed. We must pull out and rebuild our forces. We are defeated without firing a shot.
We have lost the Philipines and Wake Island. We must accept our defeat and leave the Pacific to the Japanese.
We have been pushed back to the Pusan area in Korea, we must get out troops out. If the Koreans want to fight each other, it is not our problem.
With the Chinese joining the war, we cannot defeat the Koreans. We must pull our troops out and accept defeat.
And this one. General Washington has not defeated the British after years of fighting. He has lost Philidelphia. His friend and hero, Benedict Arnold, has become a turncoat. I demand that Washington step down and we tell the British that we accept defeat.

[Cole Sanger]

Cole and Howie: I fear you are preaching to a deaf audience here, but I agree with you both. The problem is, no matter how many obvious facts you point out, all a war supporter has to do to discredit your argument is call "liberal" five times really loud. This is about to change. The thinking fraction of American has had enough of this nonsense, and we proved it last election (and we'll prove it again during the next).
Thanks, I figured that out a long time ago. I usually just let all this junk slide and don't say anything to deaf ears. Just getting tired of everyone saying we should stay and put more troops over there and keep an open ended check going. I still haven't heard a good "winning" solution. I am all for winning. I will listen to anyone with a good idea. I don't know what would make this a win. Personally I don't think that keeping our troops over there is going to help one thing. They are following their religion and beliefs. Until they stop doing that, the wars will just keep on coming. And no war can change either of these. A viscous neverending cycle.

[bigq]

One more thing that would help us out here: PROFILING
Thats a dirty word shhhhhhhh!!

[Seadog]

Where do you, that oppose the war, want to fight it? You arguments are timeless before major wars. Major wars start with the problem of those with agendas taking over one country at a time. It is not unusual for an aggressor country to destabilize another and then go in to 'help out'. While I am not fond of the mistakes made by our leadership, I feel that it was due to the influence of Rumsfield and Cheney who are too entrenched in the Beltway mentality to deal with a next generation conflict.
We have been at war with Iran since the court jester, Jimmy Carter, screwed up our middle east policy. Every administration since, has not been effective in dealing with that problem. Hands off, and their minions create chaos. Take them out in one area, and they move to another.
We are going to be in a major war at some point. Do we want to fight them on their terms, after they have taken over dozens of countries? Or do we want to keep them contained? Name one country with a large muslim population that does not have problems with them. Of all the nations that have good size muslim populations, it is the United States that have one of the lowest trouble rate. Look at Britain and France, their muslim citizens have been spreading discord about. Like it or not, the odds are that the christian societies are going to be under attack.

[Cole Sanger]

Where do you, that oppose the war, want to fight it? You arguments are timeless before major wars. Major wars start with the problem of those with agendas taking over one country at a time. It is not unusual for an aggressor country to destabilize another and then go in to 'help out'. While I am not fond of the mistakes made by our leadership, I feel that it was due to the influence of Rumsfield and Cheney who are too entrenched in the Beltway mentality to deal with a next generation conflict.
We have been at war with Iran since the court jester, Jimmy Carter, screwed up our middle east policy. Every administration since, has not been effective in dealing with that problem. Hands off, and their minions create chaos. Take them out in one area, and they move to another.
We are going to be in a major war at some point. Do we want to fight them on their terms, after they have taken over dozens of countries? Or do we want to keep them contained? Name one country with a large muslim population that does not have problems with them. Of all the nations that have good size muslim populations, it is the United States that have one of the lowest trouble rate. Look at Britain and France, their muslim citizens have been spreading discord about. Like it or not, the odds are that the christian societies are going to be under attack.
The whole point is that we shouldn't be fighting it. I agree with a lot of your points. I just don't see a way of winning. No, I don't want to fight them here. But how can you fight them when you don't know who they are or where they are? These guys were right next to a whole lot of Americans on those planes. No one knew what they were up to until it was too late. The only way to stop them must be then to kill them all right? What kind of crazy thinking is that? Now throw in Americans that have that crazy piece in them like Tim McVay. How do you fight them? We start killing each other? It is all just a snowball effect. War just creates more war. Look at the Nuke. We got it first, and now everyone wants one. Just so they can be noticed and "respected".
I have been thinking a lot about my own question about "winning" in Iraq. I know that hind sight is 20/20. If we would have gone in and taken out the Iraq government in the first or second Iraq war, just as we did, then it was after that we should have fixed things. We should have gone in with food and help and infastructure to gain their respect. Instead, we gave them a bunch of promises of a better life, a democratic life. When we didn't deliver, they first lost respect for us, then they reverted back to the only life they have ever known. A hateful every man for themself mentality. I know, handouts suck and I don't want to pay for them either. But did they really have any choice? The only thing their country exported was oil right? For the most part anyway that I know of. Our/their military took that out in the first few days. Their government took care of everything. They were really on lock down for the most part. Saddam had them by the balls right? He goes into hiding and all out hell breaks out. Their people are for the most part behind us at that point. Pulling down statues. Bush lands on a carrier and says "mission accomplished". Problem is that only the short term mission was planned and accomplished. Remember all the looting? They had no government or military or national gaurd. We surely didn't have enough military to control a whole country. Imagine being in that situation as a citizen. What is the first thing you do? I will tell you. You pray to god to come save your azz. Then you pick up a gun and fight for your country. And because you don't know what a democratic society is, you fight to have things back to the way they were. We have given them no reason to change. Why should they. We took their crappy life as it was and made it even worse. Now throw in the religious differences they have between each other and you have yourself a really nice civil war on your hands. This is where we are as I see it. At war with a country that is at war with itself. I just don't see that we can kill them all or their ideas, so how can we win this? So far I have not hear one person tell me what is "winning", or how they would go about it.

[Cole Sanger]

And what make you, the "Political Expert"?
You people are so worried about being right, you end up being Wrong!
Cut and run, is in your blood, get a spine!
The House voted 296-133 to give Bush the authority to use U.S. military force to make Iraq comply with U.N. resolutions requiring it to give up weapons of mass destruction. Across the Capitol, a companion measure cleared a procedural vote by a wide margin earlier Thursday and drew the support of the chamber's Democratic leader.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.
You people, are as bad as the French.
You do know that their were no weapons of mass destruction and you sound like a retard for bringing that up right? Seriously, the date on the article you copied and pasted must be over 4 years old. Do you really believe the House would have voted the same if we knew the truth or at least what we know now to be true? As far as the first part of your post, calm down. No one has the answer, but we are for the most part intelligent and can have a discussion about our views. And please don't call anyone French. Those are fighting words.

[Ultrafied]

Everyone is a liberal who doesn't agree with supporting Bush. Bush won both elections. Remember, Gore actually won the popular vote and both elections were marred with controversy.
Iraq was never even close to what Syria and Jordan had and still have in the number of terrorist camps. There were never weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq, nor have any yet since we have occupied the country.
France could never win in Vietnam, nor could we. Great Britain and Russia could never win in Afghanistan, nor will we. We will never win in Iraq. You have to qualify the word win. When we leave Iraq, there will still be turmoil and civil war. One of the 3 factions will become in control and you will have another dictator. When we leave Afghanistan, it will go back as it was before, and a hundred years before that. If the people don't want democracy and they are not willing to die for it, you can not shove it down their throats. It just doesn't work that way.
I voted for Bush in the first election. I didn't care who I voted for in the second as long as it wasn't Bush. I honestly felt that anyone new could not do any worse then Bush would. I have seen anything to change my mind yet.
Do I support our troops. Hell yes. They are doing the best they can in a bad situation. The US military is not trained nor equipped to be a police force. A war machine, yes. One of the best there is. There should have been an exit plan in place prior to going in. One of the reasons that the UN did not allow the peace keeping forcing go into Iraq during Desert Storm was because of the vacuum it would leave by getting rid of Hussein. Unfortunately, lessons have not been learned from the past.

[boatsnblondes]

At this point, this is like the moments just before the gunfight at the OK coral. First to blink loses. If we blink, they know they can get over on us forever. No going back. Bush said in the State of the Union speach in Jan. 2002 that this would be a LONG war, that we were in this for the long haul. I believed him at the time. I still do. And it has been. Americans are far too impatient, wanting immediate gratification. That is not how this war is playing out. If we go home, it sends them two messages, at the least..that we can be beaten A. through our politics, and B. through our media. Remember this as Iran inches closer to a nuke. Remember this as Iran lobs one west into Israel, that we pulled out, and set the events loose that sparked WW3..it's coming, I fear, it's coming...

[Cole Sanger]

Everyone is a liberal who doesn't agree with supporting Bush. Bush won both elections. Remember, Gore actually won the popular vote and both elections were marred with controversy.
Iraq was never even close to what Syria and Jordan had and still have in the number of terrorist camps. There were never weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq, nor have any yet since we have occupied the country.
France could never win in Vietnam, nor could we. Great Britain and Russia could never win in Afghanistan, nor will we. We will never win in Iraq. You have to qualify the word win. When we leave Iraq, there will still be turmoil and civil war. One of the 3 factions will become in control and you will have another dictator. When we leave Afghanistan, it will go back as it was before, and a hundred years before that. If the people don't want democracy and they are not willing to die for it, you can not shove it down their throats. It just doesn't work that way.
I voted for Bush in the first election. I didn't care who I voted for in the second as long as it wasn't Bush. I honestly felt that anyone new could not do any worse then Bush would. I have seen anything to change my mind yet.
Do I support our troops. Hell yes. They are doing the best they can in a bad situation. The US military is not trained nor equipped to be a police force. A war machine, yes. One of the best there is. There should have been an exit plan in place prior to going in. One of the reasons that the UN did not allow the peace keeping forcing go into Iraq during Desert Storm was because of the vacuum it would leave by getting rid of Hussein. Unfortunately, lessons have not been learned from the past.
I don't think I could have said it better.

[Cole Sanger]

At this point, this is like the moments just before the gunfight at the OK coral. First to blink loses. If we blink, they know they can get over on us forever. No going back. Bush said in the State of the Union speach in Jan. 2002 that this would be a LONG war, that we were in this for the long haul. I believed him at the time. I still do. And it has been. Americans are far too impatient, wanting immediate gratification. That is not how this war is playing out. If we go home, it sends them two messages, at the least..that we can be beaten A. through our politics, and B. through our media. Remember this as Iran inches closer to a nuke. Remember this as Iran lobs one west into Israel, that we pulled out, and set the events loose that sparked WW3..it's coming, I fear, it's coming...
How long do we keep our eyes open?

[71tahiti]

HEY COLE DONT equate my numbers of posts to whatever your thinking... I havent posted much until I start hearing the APPEASEMENT strategy of You and your ILK... The only controversy in the last 2 elections were all the Dems crying about the facts...THEY LOST!! Hanging chads, disinfranchised voters.. and ON and ON and ON. Hell the dems dont believe a person should have to show some ID to vote???? And their panhandling to all the Illegals becuase they represent 12 million NEW DEMOCRATS. Its people that think like YOU that are taking this country backwards toward isolationism... Look at History and see where that almost took us.
Cole, yes im new to posting, how you equate that to something I havent figured out.
Something tells me your probably a STATE or FED employee or some way tied to them.... IF YOU OWNED YOUR OWN BUSINESS YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY The DEMS are SOCIALISTS..
Cole did you vote for H REID?? McCain?
wea
Come to the midwest and see what the USA is really about. Hard working patriot people that are for the most part conservative.
Nevada. btwn your Gov and your senators you cant even prevent Mexicans from coming over your border...
Sheriff Apiao? is the only one in that state with a set of balls...... period..
Nice weather, nice lake, SHIT for POLITICIANS. WAKE UP.....

[71tahiti]

UN didnt go in because they are an IMPOTENT ORGANIZATION!!!!
IF you support our military you would denounce what the dems are doing with the funding, or lack there of. Just take a good look at the Bill that the Pres is vetoing. JUST READ THE PORK!!!!!!! Dems where short 12 votes the night before they voted...... ALL THAT PORK got them the votes they needed to pass the bill... mmmmmmmm well over 200 million in PORK... Thats the DEMOCRAT WAY.... Is that the Party you support???????
PROBLEM IS SOME PEOPLE JUST DONT HAVE THE STOMACH TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.