Surge Brakes

[LUVNLIFE]

I have an Extreme Trailer with surge brakes that are shut off by the blue wire when the truck is put in reverse. I'm going to Cottonwood cove in a month and last time I went the brakes were hotter than two rats effin in a wool sock. Anyone who knows the area knows what I'm saying. Fourteen miles of downhill out of searchlight to the lake. My trailer does not have a pin to put in to stop the brakes from coming on. Short of backing all the way down to the lake:D do you guys have any suggestions. Thanks

[widowmaker]

Welcome to the wonderful flaw of surge brakes.... I used to have this same problem towing my boat down from Lake Powell (from Flagstaff to Phoenix) and I finally chucked the brakes and went to electric brakes, they work like a million bucks I will never go back to surge brakes..

[LUVNLIFE]

Don't you have probs with water and the electric brakes:confused:

[widowmaker]

Don't you have probs with water and the electric brakes:confused:
Ya know I have had several people ask me that. I just unplug my trailer before dunking and plug back in later. The brakes use magnets to actuate the brakes, so even if I didn't unplug them I don't see much problem.
I can see a problem possibly with salt water, but I have never put any of my boats in salt water.
I've been using them for about 5 years now, I had orginally drum surge brakes, then I upgraded or what I thought was upgrading to disc surge brakes, smoked the discs and pads and finally I am back to drums but with electric actuators.
It may not even be DOT approved on a boat trailer, I just don't know.
All I do know is that I have great stopping power with all four tires on the trailer and I have never had to do anything except adjust them once for normal wear of the shoes.
If you want I can give you more info on how to make the swap.
12Volt DC current like that in a boat or car doesn't react the same way that 120V AC current does in a house.
I would suggest unplugging them in the water as do most with lights anyways.
Please feel free to ask more questions or pm me

[shrek]

I tried like hell to get Pacific to put straight electric drums on my new boat trailer, because I love them so much on the toyhauler........especially with the TowCommand system on my Ford.......but they would not.
So I ended up going with the Electric/Hyd system.........cause I refused to go with surge.........and the jury is still out.
Shrek

[widowmaker]

I tried like hell to get Pacific to put straight electric drums on my new boat trailer, because I love them so much on the toyhauler........especially with the TowCommand system on my Ford.......but they would not.
So I ended up going with the Electric/Hyd system.........cause I refused to go with surge.........and the jury is still out.
Shrek
Ditto, I have them on my 22' toyhauler and they are great!!

[plaster dave]

I have an Extreme Trailer with surge brakes that are shut off by the blue wire when the truck is put in reverse. I'm going to Cottonwood cove in a month and last time I went the brakes were hotter than two rats effin in a wool sock. Anyone who knows the area knows what I'm saying. Fourteen miles of downhill out of searchlight to the lake. My trailer does not have a pin to put in to stop the brakes from coming on. Short of backing all the way down to the lake:D do you guys have any suggestions. Thanks
I always slow down more then what my desired speed is and then give some gas to disengage the brakes and just cruise from there. It is probable easier because I have a camera on the back of the truck to see when it is engaged and disengaged. I hope this helped out and made since.

[LUVNLIFE]

I know exactly what you mean. Although I think in the fourteen miles down to Cottonwood there are approx 1,538,719 turns that you have to slow down for. :eek: Since the wife drinks rum and cokes on the way it will make her sick with all the speeding up and slowing:D

[LUVNLIFE]

What do you guys think of this. Make sure that the tongue is all the way out, brakes off. Then find a good spot, drill a hole for a good strong pin. When I pull into Searchlight, stop with the brakes off, insert pin and continue downhill. I don'thaul ass down the hill and with all the turns you really can't so I'm not worried about not having the trailer brakes.:idea:

[Jetdriver]

2 ways to handle it Cale. Either drill a hole and bolt it out or jump the blue wire with the same wire that activates the brake lights so when you hit the brakes it throws out the solenoid.

[LUVNLIFE]

What kind of solenoid would I use. You know me and electronics:confused: :eek: :D

[BOBALOO]

What kind of solenoid would I use. You know me and electronics:confused: :eek: :D
You already have the solenoid on the brake line . When you put the truck in reverse the solenoid dumps pressure back into the master cylinder.
If you have a large C-clamp you could easily clamp that around the sliding part of the tongue for the trip down.
I vote to run a positive wire from a switch under the dash to the wire on the trailer brake solenoid so you can release the pressure when you need to but still have the option to engage the brakes if something goes wrong and trailer brakes will keep you from going off a cliff. That sounds like a long downhill tow with no trailer braking.

[BOBALOO]

What kind of solenoid would I use. You know me and electronics:confused: :eek: :D
My first double post

[Dons_donzi]

What do you guys think of this. Make sure that the tongue is all the way out, brakes off. Then find a good spot, drill a hole for a good strong pin. When I pull into Searchlight, stop with the brakes off, insert pin and continue downhill. I don'thaul ass down the hill and with all the turns you really can't so I'm not worried about not having the trailer brakes.:idea:
Cale.... think about it... wouldnt you like to be able to HAVE brakes on the trialer if you REALLY needed to stop...? Put in a simple switch to activate the back up solenoid.... on long stretches of the 14 mile down hill... turn it on... that way your brakes dont heat up when you dont need them, but when you get into the turns or need to slow her down, flip the switch back off... and you have the trailer brakes to help stop.
Paul has the stuff in his scrap box i'm sure... (simple disconnect)
and tell that woman to go fly her blender.... :D

[Dons_donzi]

oh.... and if anything where to happen and the trailer seperated from the truck.... with the pin or c clamp on the surge... then that sucker wont be stopping till it hits something...
if you go with a switch.... if it were to come loose, the brakes will still work as advertised, and save your boat.

[LUVNLIFE]

You already have the solenoid on the brake line . When you put the truck in reverse the solenoid dumps pressure back into the master cylinder.
If you have a large C-clamp you could easily clamp that around the sliding part of the tongue for the trip down.
I vote to run a positive wire from a switch under the dash to the wire on the trailer brake solenoid so you can release the pressure when you need to but still have the option to engage the brakes if something goes wrong and trailer brakes will keep you from going off a cliff. That sounds like a long downhill tow with no trailer braking.
This sounds like the deal;)

[LUVNLIFE]

You already have the solenoid on the brake line . When you put the truck in reverse the solenoid dumps pressure back into the master cylinder.
If you have a large C-clamp you could easily clamp that around the sliding part of the tongue for the trip down.
I vote to run a positive wire from a switch under the dash to the wire on the trailer brake solenoid so you can release the pressure when you need to but still have the option to engage the brakes if something goes wrong and trailer brakes will keep you from going off a cliff. That sounds like a long downhill tow with no trailer braking.
This sounds like the deal;)

[LUVNLIFE]

Cale.... think about it... wouldnt you like to be able to HAVE brakes on the trialer if you REALLY needed to stop...? Put in a simple switch to activate the back up solenoid.... on long stretches of the 14 mile down hill... turn it on... that way your brakes dont heat up when you dont need them, but when you get into the turns or need to slow her down, flip the switch back off... and you have the trailer brakes to help stop.
Paul has the stuff in his scrap box i'm sure... (simple disconnect)
and tell that woman to go fly her blender.... :D
Well I'm no electrical genious so you guys will have to draw me a picture.:) Or are you saying Paul will do the work for me:D

[Jetaholic]

The solution is really simple. Install a surge brake override switch in the truck. Basically, the switch will be wired to switch the middle pin of your 7 pin trailer connector between the reverse light circuit and a 12 volt source. This will allow you to manually override the surge brakes for downhill driving without turning on your reverse lights.
Here's the schematic. All it requires is an SPDT (single pole double throw) switch.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30120&stc=1&d=1178257592

[BOBALOO]

I wonder if the reverse lights will come on? Might need a diode in line on the feed to the 7 pin connector under the bumper. A diode will only let 12v go one way and not backfeed the lights.
Having the reverse lights on probably does not matter much though.

[Oldsquirt]

I wonder if the reverse lights will come on? Might need a diode in line on the feed to the 7 pin connector under the bumper. A diode will only let 12v go one way and not backfeed the lights.
Having the reverse lights on probably does not matter much though.
Reverse lights will come on. If the vehicle has a shift indicator that is comprised of lights(as opposed to the old pointer style) it will likely illuminate the "R" light. An even bigger issue would be if the vehicle is equipped with an Electronically Controlled Transmission(just about everything these days). These often use the same circuit in the trans selector switch to indicate to the ECU that the shifter is in "reverse" as it does to activate the back-up lights. Best case scenario would be a "check engine" light. Worst case? Use your imagination.
I think some method of isolation to prevent any "backfeed" problems would be mandatory. A diode should work. Creative use of a relay could also do it.

[Jetaholic]

http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30120&d=1178257586
Take a look again at the schematic. There is a wire (1 wire) running from the center pin of the 7 pin connector to the reverse light circuit. You will cut this wire and connect the "7 pin connector side" of that wire to the switch's "common" terminal (the moving contact).
One of the stationary contacts will connect to the rest of the reverse light circuit.
The other stationary contact will connect to a constant +12VDC source.
When the switch is in the "reverse light circuit" position, you now have the stock wiring. It's as if the switch wasn't even there.
When the switch is in the "surge brake override" position, this disconnects the middle pin of the 7 pin connector from the rest of the reverse light circuit, and connects it to the constant +12VDC source.
Remember...you are switching JUST THE CENTER PIN BY ITSELF between the reverse light circuit and a constant +12VDC source. This will not affect the reverse light circuit...the reverse light circuit could care less if the center pin was connected to it or not.

[Dons_donzi]

Jetaholic is all over it...
the back up lights would only come on if ALL THREE were connected...
but the "switch" takes it FROM one to the other....
taking the back up lites totally OUT of the circuit,
opening the relief valve on the surge brake solinoid and letting your tongue move in and out... with no braking.
and no hokie C-clamp to shake loose and hit the pavement and come back through your HULL..!!! or the windshield of the guy behind you, causing total havoc and makeing your wife turn to drinking..!!!
when you are done with your wiley coyote-roadrunner high speed down hill pass... flip the switch and your back to normal...
easy cheesy... ( you operate a high speed performance machine... you can install a switch...)
:D
oh... and i had some of that "spoke steak" at a party the other night, that was some good stuff. i should have tried yours..!!!!

[Blown 33 Daytona]

you guys relize that if you wire in a switch to trip the solenoid it will work great untill you go to turn the brakes back on the master cylinder will be fully compressed so even though the switch is off you still won't have brakes..... hope that made sense

[Jetaholic]

Until you pull forward that is. You gotta remember, when you shift from reverse to drive, it's the same situation...the master cylinder is fully compressed.

[Blown 33 Daytona]

Yeah excactly but that pretty much defeats having the switch in the first place if everytime he turns it off he has to gas it. He would be better off slowing down for the corner more then enough and gasing it as he exits the corner. this way he still would have brakes if he needed them for an emergency stop.

[Jetaholic]

He won't have to gas it. As soon as the terrain levels out, he would keep going forward, the trailer speed would slow down slightly until the brake actuator was pulled fully forward by the truck.
Remember, the trailer is being "pulled" by the truck until you start slowing down. Then the trailer will push the truck.