Here we go again

[ratso]

I'm sorry, but hitting a golf ball doesn't make you an athlete... at least that is my opinion. Now Tomlinson... that's an athlete... muscle bound, stout as an ox, and PHYSICALLY kicks ass on the field. Tiger is amazing at what he does, but an athlete? No way! James Stewart deserves to be in there more than Tiger Woods!
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6741576?MSNHPHCP&GT1=10035

[ratso]

You've obviously never played any golf at a high level, because anybody can "hit" a golf ball. Hell, my 7 year old can drive the ball 125-140 yards and make bogey from the ladies tees on most holes. Besides the "athletic" portion of golf, which I assure you exists, golf is by far the most mentally challenging/fatiguing/demanding sports you'll ever play at a high level.
Tell Tiger to nail a triple on a supercross track and see if he "cracks" mentally... Apparently you've never done that at a "high" level either...;)

[ratso]

And you want to compare athletic ability to LT... where? In fantasy land. I've seen strippers with more athletic ability than Tiger. Give me a break.:D Once again, I am not taking away from Tiger and what he does, but I don't see the comparison, yet obviously others do. Never said I was right. I just said I don't see it.;)

[Ziggy]

I'm sorry, but hitting a golf ball doesn't make you an athlete... at least that is my opinion. Now Tomlinson... that's an athlete... muscle bound, stout as an ox, and PHYSICALLY kicks ass on the field. Tiger is amazing at what he does, but an athlete? No way! James Stewart deserves to be in there more than Tiger Woods!
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6741576?MSNHPHCP&GT1=10035
I used to think it was the silliest sport until I started playing it. Yes, you do not have to be musclebound to play it but that does not constitute being an athlete. As SWB said, it is much harder than one thinks if you've not played it, even at a recreational level. It takes more out of you than you'd ever expect.
Me, I think basketball players are WAY overrated as athletes.....7 foot giants rubbing sweat all over each other and running 50 feet like an elephant to dunk the ball.

[Ziggy]

Tell Tiger to nail a triple on a supercross track and see if he "cracks" mentally... Apparently you've never done that at a "high" level either...;)
Even being a huge LT fan I'd wager that Tiger could manage that feat before LT.

[ratso]

I used to think it was the silliest sport until I started playing it. Yes, you do not have to be musclebound to play it but that does not constitute being an athlete. As SWB said, it is much harder than one thinks if you've not played it, even at a recreational level. It takes more out of you than you'd ever expect.
Me, I think basketball players are WAY overrated as athletes.....7 foot giants rubbing sweat all over each other and running 50 feet like an elephant to dunk the ball.
Agreed... I once played 12 hours straight in a pool tournament... That was mentally challenging too, but heck, that's a sport. Bowling is a sport. Bass Fishing and Nascar, yet I wouldn't consider that as athletically demanding, mentally challenging, or near the wow factor as what LT and some others have accomplished.

[ratso]

Even being a huge LT fan I'd wager that Tiger could manage that feat before LT.
LT has proven that he has no fear, and even if he missed nailing it, he'd probably get up, brush himself off, and walk away. Tiger would probably break into a thousand pieces lol...:D

[XtrmWakeborder]

Ok what is everyones deffination of an athlete? Mine involves being in physical shape. Hitting a ball and then driving to it in a golf cart doesn't require it. It is a sport and hard, but having to be an athlete? no

[Ziggy]

Agreed... I once played 12 hours straight in a pool tournament... That was mentally challenging too, but heck, that's a sport. Bowling is a sport. Bass Fishing and Nascar, yet I wouldn't consider that as athletically demanding, mentally challenging, or near the wow factor as what LT and some others have accomplished.
I understand what you are driving at, but golf is more physical than it appears, with a huge hand/eye coordination requirement. Swinging the club 100 or more times will fatigue you, plus they have to walk these courses.
As far as the WOW factor, go watch this guy sometime and see how many people say WOW after many of his shots, this is because he is so athletic at this sport he can do so much more than the average person it gets the WOW reaction.....just like LT gets the same for be that much better than anyone else in his sport.
in other words, when you can relate to what is required to perform a certain move/shot/jump/or whatever, then a great performance by a great athlete is appreciated.

[ratso]

Using Tiger is probably not the best example, because he is head and shoulders above his peers in terms of athletic ability and conditioning. Golf is about being mentally tough and having extreme hand eye coordination, like those Chinese ping pong players. Even baseball players are not always the most physical specimens in the world, but again, hand eye coordination cannot be taught, so it doesn't really matter if you look like A-Rod or John Kruk. Yes, there's a lot of not in great shape golfers, John Daly, Tim Herron, but there's a ton of younger guys on tour that look like underwear models now. Golf, played at that level, takes an extremely strong core, legs and shoulders. Those guys hit THOUSANDS of shots a week, not just playing four rounds and grab a beer. Vijay is reported to strike somewhere between 800-1200 balls A DAY, EVERY DAY. As somebody that has pounded around that little ball for a living, I can tell you that anything more than 200-300 balls a day every day is killing yourself. He's in his early 40s too BTW.
FWIW, I think LT is a better athlete than Tiger Woods, but not more dominant at his sport. I'm sure if they lined up side by side in some sort of made up decathalon, LT would whip his ass. But Tiger is an exceptional athlete is his own right and if you'd ever played golf, even as a passionate recreational activity, you'd realize just how awe inspiring it is to watch what he does.
Really guys, I am not bashing Tiger. I thoroughly enjoy watching him play whenever I catch it... I also enjoy the 9 ball championships when they are on. I just have a different picture of what a true athlete is. There are a lot of Tiger fans out there. I wouldn't even watch it if he wasn't as popular and as good as he is. As they said in the article about LT... once he hangs it up, the talk will be about who was second best.

[ratso]

They don't drive carts on the PGA tour.
We're not discussing recreational golf/booze fests, we're talking about the PGA Tour and the number one player on that tour and possibly the number one player of all time.
You beat me to that one lol...:D

[ratso]

BTW Bob... your name came up the other day in some kind of "Where did they go" thread. Good to see ya.;)

[Ziggy]

I almost hate the fact you and I are on the same thought SWB.....LOL
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So Ratso, did you think Dion Sanders was a great athlete? Or how TO? I personally think its all relative to what they do.

[XtrmWakeborder]

They don't drive carts on the PGA tour.
We're not discussing recreational golf/booze fests, we're talking about the PGA Tour and the number one player on that tour and possibly the number one player of all time.
lol sorry they have to WALK to the ball.....

[ratso]

They said the same thing about Walter Payton, Gale Sayers, OJ Simpson, ad naseum. There's always somebody better.
For my money, there was not a better running back in the NFL than Eric Dickerson. Just a punishing, straight up and down runner. Never took a big hit, had maybe 5 different gears and could go from second to fifth gear in maybe three steps.
Yeah, there have been a ton of greats. I remember the days of McGrath, then Ricky Carmichael, and now James Stewart... always someone to one-up them too. Time will tell with LT, and even Tiger Woods... you gotta wonder how anyone can top them, but records are made to be broken.

[VEGASBABY]

Chess is a mentally challenging game also! But that dont make a chess player an athlete. Im with you Ratso! the other half is you can take a football player or a Basketball player and they can play golf. You would never see Tiger do a triple on a dirt bike or run a crossing route in front of a badass linebacker.

[ratso]

I almost hate the fact you and I are on the same thought SWB.....LOL
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So Ratso, did you think Dion Sanders was a great athlete? Or how TO? I personally think its all relative to what they do.
I think they were fun to watch, and they had their day, but great, nah, I wouldn't say that. I have a ton of players I'd put on the list above them.

[Ziggy]

We agree on quite a bit, but for some reason we never got on very good and I'm not sure why. :confused:
HB drama would be my guess.;) No biggie.

[AirtimeLavey]

Tiger is an athletic golfer, and that is why he is so dominate over the lesser athletic types on the tour. Lots of them have the mental toughness, but T's got the whole package. Most of the rest of the tour guys, now that's where the athlete or not argument can really kick in.

[XtrmWakeborder]

Man bunch of old people here, it use to be about high horsepower, fast boats, and football and now its pontoons and golf.....:rolleyes: :D

[Ziggy]

I think they were fun to watch, and they had their day, but great, nah, I wouldn't say that. I have a ton of players I'd put on the list above them.
I long list above them.............but for whatever reason they seem(ed) to think they were the best...

[ratso]

I long list above them.............but for whatever reason they seem(ed) to think they were the best...
...that they did, and were very overpaid for their accomplishments!

[AirtimeLavey]

Granted you might argue that this isn't relative on the pro level, but I play both basketball and golf. One of the guys I golf with occassionally, is hugely overweight, but hits the ball right down the middle, consistently. I can drive the snot out of it, but he still scores better on a consistent basis. He would die if I brought him on a b-ball court. It wouldn't even be a game. Point being, you don't have to be an athlete to be a great golfer.

[Ziggy]

The PGA is not quite as subjective as the NFL. Rushing records can be directly correlated to quality of team you played for, longevity, proclivity of the head coach to run or pass, etc. On the PGA, you have your time frame to make your run and you're done. You can play forever, like Nicklaus did, but you won't be competitive. Tiger's going to be measured on wins and Majors and taking into consideration the depth of field he plays against week in and week out, it's almost incomprehensible what he's able to accomplish. Remember guys like Mark O'Meara, Sergio Garcia, Ernie Els, Vijay, Phil Mickelson? They all had their little runs of greatness and in a flash it was over. Ernie Els won two Majors before he was 23 and may never win another, although he's considered to be one of the top 10 golfers in the world. Sergio's never won a Major. To win 2-3 Majors in your lifetime is remarkable, to possibly win 20 before you're done is unthinkable.
On top of the fact that there is more competition today vs yesteryear, strong young players emmulating Tigers success. Without doubt he is the stud of golf.

[ratso]

Chess is a game that doesn't require any physical skill. I've seen the average dirt biker many times, I'd guess Tiger would fair a little better running that crossing route, at 6'2" 205 lbs, than Deegan. ;)
Now why you wanna throw Deegan under the bus lmao...:D

[XtrmWakeborder]

I don't think there's too many "NFL people" that would place more than one corner above Deion in history. Love him or hate him, that guy could play his position like nobody else. He created the words "shutdown corner."
Champ Bailey should be the best by the end of his career, without all the show. This coming from a guy that would do the Deon shuffle after he scored a TD when he was little...lol

[Ziggy]

Granted you might argue that this isn't relative on the pro level, but I play both basketball and golf. One of the guys I golf with occassionally, is hugely overweight, but hits the ball right down the middle, consistently. I can drive the snot out of it, but he still scores better on a consistent basis. He would die if I brought him on a b-ball court. It wouldn't even be a game. Point being, you don't have to be an athlete to be a great golfer.But it does require athletic ability.
Shit, it was very common to watch the early years of golf with them walking around smoking a stoggie or cancer stick....

[AirtimeLavey]

But it does require athletic ability.
Shit, it was very common to watch the early years of golf with them walking around smoking a stoggie or cancer stick....
That's today, stoggie and beer. Can't do that with most other sports...:D
Absolutely. One of the best amateur golfers in SoCal is a good friend of mine. He probably goes 6'3" 315 lbs. He is overweight, to be sure, but he's also fairly athletic. He's agile, light on his feet for a big man. He was a catcher on some championship CSF baseball teams back in the day. He's a big man, always been a big man and always will be. I doubt he would want to lace them up and play basketball with you either. Incidentally, I'm sure you could say the same thing about some NFL lineman. Superior at their craft, but probably couldn't make a basket if you lowered the hoop to 4'. But, they're in the NFL just like LT, so they must be athletic. It's circular logic.
Maybe it's like pornography. I don't know the absolute definition of an athlete, but I know one when I see him.
I've played bball w/some linemen, and they can hold their own. Not everyone's a great shot, but it's not all about that. I see your point, though. Still, just looking at Love, Mckelson, etc...they don't really come to mind when talking about athletes.
On a side note, I've also recently played bball w/Tony Gonz of KC. That dude's a flat out athlete no matter what the sport. So, many athletes can crossover better than golfers. (Actually, I should say I was on the court, in the same game, but mostly watching in awe. Nowadays, I mostly play below the rim...:cry: ).

[thom]

ok i have to jump in...
all this talk about walking, hitting a golf ball no big deal.
lets take a mx rider, he twists a throttle and rides.... sure he tosses his weight around but whats the big deal.. does that make him more of an athlete than a guy that uses a different group of muscles to swing a club 125 mph

[AirtimeLavey]

You do know that Tony Gonzalez was a hoops star at Cal, not football?
Yep, knew that, and it's very apparent after watching him dunk from the free throw line. :D
ok i have to jump in...
all this talk about walking, hitting a golf ball no big deal.
lets take a mx rider, he twists a throttle and rides.... sure he tosses his weight around but whats the big deal.. does that make him more of an athlete than a guy that uses a different group of muscles to swing a club 125 mph
If you've rid'in, then you know it's WAY more than twisting a throttle. That comparison is way off. :)

[thom]

i agree it is a strecth .. thats how they are making a golfer sound..

[Boozer]

Yep, knew that, and it's very apparent after watching him dunk from the free throw line. :D
If you've rid'in, then you know it's WAY more than twisting a throttle. That comparison is way off. :)
Considering I've done both and at some points was doing both on a regular basis I would say that it's not that far off.
If anyone has any doubt about how physically exhuasting golf can actually be take a trip down to your local driving range, get the biggest basket of balls they offer, and try to get through the entire basket. Try to drive as far on ball 250 as far as you were driving it at ball 50. And don't forget to stretch first.

[AirtimeLavey]

Yep, just hit the ball and ride your cart. It's so easy that only about 125 people in the world can make a living on the PGA Tour.
No, not saying it's so easy, because there are other components that no one can master consistently. An artist uses mental and physical abilities to paint. You can't tell me it wasn't tiring painting the Cystine (sp?) Chapel. Yet, we don't call them athletes. :idea:
Considering I've done both and at some points was doing both on a regular basis I would say that it's not that far off.
If anyone has any doubt about how physically exhuasting golf can actually be take a trip down to your local driving range, get the biggest basket of balls they offer, and try to get through the entire basket. Try to drive as far on ball 250 as far as you were driving it at ball 50. And don't forget to stretch first.
Lol. Dude, your golf swing must be crazy if you think it's like riding mx. :eek: :D
As for hitting a bucket of balls being tiring, it is. So is painting, or mowing the lawn. :)

[Tyson Ross]

John Daly is an athlete...:jawdrop: He can out smoke them all:D On a more serious note, Bo Jackson in his prime was amazing. To hit a homer in an allstar game and rush for almost 1k yards in 9-10 game season is amazing to me.
I think you have to say Tiger is the best at his sport then anyone else at their's. He competes against over 150 people every weekend and comes out on top. Federer is a close second.

[Nord]

Since we are on the subject..........
Driving cars in circles is not a sport either.............
over
~NORD~

[ratso]

Since we are on the subject..........
Driving cars in circles is not a sport either.............
over
~NORD~
It's a sport, a sport that I could care less about though, and doesn't involve athletes.;)

[hoolign]

You've obviously never played any golf at a high level, because anybody can "hit" a golf ball. Hell, my 7 year old can drive the ball 125-140 yards and make bogey from the ladies tees on most holes. Besides the "athletic" portion of golf, which I assure you exists, golf is by far the most mentally challenging/fatiguing/demanding sports you'll ever play at a high level.
I imagine John Daly is the exception to the athlete part. :rolleyes: That drunken slob wouldn't know he had golf shoes on if it weren't for the reflection in the trail of empty beer bottles behind him. :D

[AirtimeLavey]

I imagine John Daly is the exception to the athlete part. :rolleyes: That drunken slob wouldn't know he had golf shoes on if it weren't for the reflection in the trail of empty beer bottles behind him. :D
Lol...yeah but I was saw him and Tiger at a Skins match (w/Fred Couples & Tom Watson), and they both drove the ball out of site. Impressive as hell. At least Daly can sing.......or not. :eek:

[hoolign]

Lol...yeah but I was saw him and Tiger at a Skins match (w/Fred Couples & Tom Watson), and they both drove the ball out of site. Impressive as hell. At least Daly can sing.......or not. :eek:
I'm definitley not disputing his talent as a'golfer' but please...athlete? He's as much as an athlete as I am next in line for the Pope! :D

[AirtimeLavey]

I'm definitley not disputing his talent as a'golfer' but please...athlete? He's as much as an athlete as I am next in line for the Pope! :D
Canadian Pontiff, eh?

[hoolign]

Canadian Pontiff, eh?
yep!
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30459&d=1178690851

[AirtimeLavey]

yep!
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30459&d=1178690851
Lmao....shiat, I'm probably damned for laughing at that......thanks. :eek:

[hoolign]

Lmao....shiat, I'm probably damned for laughing at that......thanks. :eek:
I have corporate rates down there so just menation my name ! :D

[EAZYKILLER2006]

I'm sorry, but hitting a golf ball doesn't make you an athlete... at least that is my opinion. Now Tomlinson... that's an athlete... muscle bound, stout as an ox, and PHYSICALLY kicks ass on the field. Tiger is amazing at what he does, but an athlete? No way! James Stewart deserves to be in there more than Tiger Woods!
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6741576?MSNHPHCP&GT1=10035
does hitting a guy :D friend make ya a hoE:)

[hoolign]

does hitting a guy :D friend make ya a hoE:)
As long it's across my ass - your golden! :)

[EAZYKILLER2006]

As long it's across my ass - your golden! :)
how high do u swing;) ...would it be considered a sport?

[AirtimeLavey]

I have corporate rates down there so just menation my name ! :D
Saweet! :D

[hoolign]

how high do u swing;) ...would it be considered a sport?
I'm a swinger baby!
It would be definitley considered a sport if my woman found out - Long jump /500 yd dash / god forbid - shotput

[ratso]

does hitting a guy :D friend make ya a hoE:)
...not if it's during foreplay.

[hoolign]

If golf is not a sport, then how would you, classify golf?
A pleasent green eviroment for the handicapped to frolic around in? :D

[YeLLowBoaT]

If golf is not a sport, then how would you, classify golf?
he didn't say it was not a sport... he just said tiger is not a athlete. I tend to agree with him. Thats not to say hes not athletic, but being a pro golfer does not make you a athlete, same with pro bowling.

[hoolign]

he didn't say it was not a sport... he just said tiger is not a athlete. I tend to agree with him. Thats not to say hes not athletic, but being a pro golfer does not make you a athlete, same with pro bowling.
Ok I have to draw a line here! :mad:

[EAZYKILLER2006]

he didn't say it was not a sport... he just said tiger is not a athlete. I tend to agree with him. Thats not to say hes not athletic, but being a pro golfer does not make you a athlete, same with pro bowling.
if balls are involved then its a sport...

[hoolign]

or fishing
From an Albertan yet?? :mad: Your estrogen levels are increasing as I type! Fishing is "THE' sport!

[HM]

That is what HolyMoly said too......
You know why bald men have holes in their pockets? So they can run their fingers thru their hair.

[acatitude]

Since we are on the subject..........
Driving cars in circles is not a sport either.............
over
~NORD~
try driving a nascar around in a circle at 200 mph 4 inches from the car in front of you in 120 degree heat for 3 hours and tell me how easy it is...

[EAZYKILLER2006]

You know why bald men have holes in their pockets? So they can run their fingers thru their hair.
holymoly

[HM]

holymoly
LOL...caught you off guard on that one did I?

[EAZYKILLER2006]

LOL...caught you off guard on that one did I?
the right response was/is...
you call?
mine :)
if you're a callin' i'm a commin':devil:

[HM]

the right response was/is...
you call?
mine :)
if you're a callin' i'm a commin':devil:
you know that I am a square angry old midget? :D

[EAZYKILLER2006]

you know that I am a square angry old midget? :D
wiff no teefs?:D :devil:
puuurrrfect

[HM]

wiff no teefs?:D :devil:
puuurrrfect
Don't tell the canatards! :eek:

[ratso]

What no Bob Hannah? You must be a youngster :D :D
Bob Hannah could nevewr compete at the level these guys do... unless you're gonna photochop me, then I'll go with you on that 100%:D