The Official: 496HO Vs. 525 thread!!

[EmpirE231]

before anyone says use the search button... I already did!;) and found a bunch of comments and feedback. lets just consider this the updated thread... and not just about speed of the boat, but the lifestyle that goes along with boating, and the fun!
is it really worth the difference in price (15-18k) for the small gains of MPH? alot of people say yes, and claim that nobody comes back wanting a slower boat, which I believe is true. but is the difference in performance THAT big between the 496 and the 525? and yes its only a little bit of difference in your monthly payment on the loan, but it's a 15-20k difference when it comes to paying that sucker off!
my buddy has ridden in our friends boat... 26' force w/ 496... and they were running with our other buddies 26' dcb f26 w/ 525. he claims the difference in speed was not big at all... the dcb barely was creeping by, and took atleast a 1/4-1/2 mile before it was a good gap up ahead of them? and he said they all had a blast on the force (5 of them w/ coolers and so on).
one thing that I would definitely like about the 525 is that the boat would get on plane quicker than the 496 (and the boats in comparison would be 26-27' cats). that is a + , but not sure if it outweighs the cost?
pretty much just looking for feedback for people with similar experiences or that run either or engine in a comparable boat. are you happy with the 496 for what it is or hate it? if you got the 525... was it worth the 15k?
I know when I get the boat I wont be running it all day long, alot of it will be kicking back and hanging out with friends... that's another main reason the cost has alot to do with my decision. the boats I'm primarily interested in are the 26' shadow, or the 27 shadow? would I be hating myself if I put an HO on the 27'? or would I still be having a blast? my thoughts are, that it's my first boat... enjoy it for what it is for 4 years or so, and then REALLY step it up, and get into something that the price differences actually make major differences in performance... such as a 32' with twin 710's or so.
......
...
..
-Pat

[AZJD]

525 is worth the $$$$$ if you are willing to spend it!
My boat came with a 496, and I do like it but I would love to have the added power. If I was to come across the $$$$ and had nothing else to spend it on I might upgrade now.

[beaverretriever]

is it really worth the difference in price (15-18k) for the small gains of MPH?
Small gains? Find me a 496ho powered boat over 25feet that is even running 90mph or over. There are many 525s in the high 80s and a hand full of 90mph ones. Most 496HO boats are in the 60-70s.
Oh, plus it is a very cool shade of blue. :)

[shippingguy]

I know when I get the boat I wont be running it all day long, alot of it will be kicking back and hanging out with friends... that's another main reason the cost has alot to do with my decision. the boats I'm primarily interested in are the 26' shadow, or the 27 shadow? would I be hating myself if I put an HO on the 27'? or would I still be having a blast? my thoughts are, that it's my first boat... enjoy it for what it is for 4 years or so, and then REALLY step it up, and get into something that the price differences actually make major differences in performance... such as a 32' with twin 710's or so.
......
...
..
-Pat[/QUOTE]
If you can do it get the 525. Cruising range is better as well. Now for the boat. The 26 Shadow Deck is great with a 496 HO, but alot more fun with the 525. The 27 Shadow whole different ball game 525 minimum for that boat. Don't get me wrong the HO works fine, but the 525 makes a big difference on the 27. I had the 27 with a 525 and it was great. Now I have the Teague 800 and it is even better. The boat likes power, period.:) Just my .02

[Ivan Dan]

I have a 26' Daytona with a 525 and I love the thing. With 2-3 people the thing jumps onto plane faster than any other cat I've been in. On Memorial weekend with 4 people and half tanks I got 84 on GPS speedo. I can cruise at 60-65 no problem where the 496 you will be running it pretty hard to keep it at those speeds.
Before this boat I had a 28 Magic Deck with a 496HO and it was a slug. So needless to say my experience with the 496 was tainted a bit.
Personally I would spend the extra as you have an overall better platform if you ever wanted to upgrade and if not you have a bitchin turn key boat.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/Memorial_Weekend3.jpg

[Kilrtoy]

I would not put either of those in a boat that size, I would go with a merc 700 or a viper 710 at the smallest....
cats like air and like to run, Hell my boat runs like crap below 70 and that is where a 496 will get me maybe 70 on a good day

[catman-do]

I have the 27 with an HO, I see low 70's on avg. Maybe 73-75 on a good day with low gas, low weight, and cooler temps.
I would deffinately love to have a 525. However, if you are good with motors then you can build a 570CI and have all the internals for the same price range doing it yourself and produce more power. (then you also must upgrade drives.

[beaverretriever]

cats like air and like to run, Hell my boat runs like crap below 70 and that is where a 496 will get me maybe 70 on a good day
Because blenders are for making margaritas not pushing boats... LOL :D :D ;)

[Ivan Dan]

I would not put either of those in a boat that size, I would go with a merc 700 or a viper 710 at the smallest....
cats like air and like to run, Hell my boat runs like crap below 70 and that is where a 496 will get me maybe 70 on a good day
Not all of us are ballers like you and can afford the HUGE insurance bills. :D

[Kilrtoy]

Because blenders are for making margaritas not pushing boats... LOL :D :D ;)
Ill put my 600HP against any 26/27 inboard with 600HP..
And when I am done I will drink that margarita

[beaverretriever]

Ill put my 600HP against any 26/27 inboard with 600HP..
And when I am done I will drink that margarita
LOL, you know I am with you... why do you think I got a margarita maker on our new boat.
Hey, you never pm'ed me back, flake.:)

[Not So Fast]

I just made a switch but only to an HP500 which is obviously slower than a 525 BUT, it aint all about top speed either. The acceleration, the mid range and top speed are all BETTER in a like boat. For your friend that says he was running a 496 right along with a 525 is a crock, I can guarantee that :idea: Dont forget to upgrade, you are also probably talking about an XR drive in the deal, steering maybe? If you can swing the money and any increase in INSURANCE then by all means do it. The saying goes like this "Build it once" but if you are absolutely, without a doubt, allright with the 496HO then do that by all means, some people are very happy with theirs. Most people including myself said they were OK with it but somehow that little monster creeps up and says "Faster, Faster"!!:D Good luck. NSF

[Cole Trickle]

Ill put my 600HP against any 26/27 inboard with 600HP..
And when I am done I will drink that margarita
Froggy called and said he wants to race you in a 625 powered revolution with 8 people and 3 dogs on board:D:D:devil: ;)

[Ivan Dan]

Froggy called and said he wants to race you in a 610 powered revolution with 8 people and 3 dogs on board:D:D:devil: ;)
Tell the story here.....

[Pussywhippled]

Get the 525...
If you go with the 496 you are limiting yourself to 425hp. LOL

[Froggystyle]

Ill put my 600HP against any 26/27 inboard with 600HP..
And when I am done I will drink that margarita
I may take you up on that! :D
The 625 version should be done within a week. Should be close! :D
To answer the original question though, a big possibility is to buy a boat that uses the power you put in it better. Some 27's will go faster than others with bigger power. As an example, our boat will run in the late 70's with a 496, and late 80's with a 525. That gets you a lot more boat for the money, not just more engine...
Something to think about...

[2forcefull]

I'm doig the 26 force with twin small block 6.2s 640 hp tons of torque
and about the same as a 525

[ultra27jay]

i have a 27 shadow with a 496 ho, and i hated it from day one. now i just put in the hp500 and what a difference, with the ho and 7 people 100 galons of gas and 2 ice chests the boat would not do over 55:( .... get the 525 u will love the extra torque u get out of it. now i like my boat but come winter ill be putting in a whipple. u will allways want more.......good luck.

[Singleton]

Need to remember the boat he is looking at.
The 26 Shadow Deck does fine with the 496HO (low 70's) add the CMI or Dana Headers and you get to mid 70's. I have seen a few with the 525 and you go faster (high 70's - low 80's). However if you want that speed then look at the 27 (safer boat in my mind with those speeds - more freeboard). I think high 70's to low 80's in the deck is pushing it. Once you get those numbers go to the 27.
The 27 Shadow - Anything less then the 525 and you are not doing the boat justice.

[Froggystyle]

i have a 27 shadow with a 496 ho, and i hated it from day one. now i just put in the hp500 and what a difference, with the ho and 7 people 100 galons of gas and 2 ice chests the boat would not do over 55:( .... get the 525 u will love the extra torque u get out of it. now i like my boat but come winter ill be putting in a whipple. u will allways want more.......good luck.
What does it run with the HP 500 now? Those are pretty close in power to the 525 when it comes down to crankshaft HP...

[Cole Trickle]

I'm doig the 26 force with twin small block 6.2s 640 hp tons of torque
and about the same as a 525
Will you get more speed out of the twin sbc's vs teh single 525? (How much)
Price is the same?

[Froggystyle]

Need to remember the boat he is looking at.
The 26 Shadow Deck does fine with the 496HO (low 70's) add the CMI or Dana Headers and you get to mid 70's. I have seen a few with the 525 and you go faster (high 70's - low 80's). However if you want that speed then look at the 27 (safer boat in my mind with those speeds - more freeboard). I think high 70's to low 80's in the deck is pushing it. Once you get those numbers go to the 27.
The 27 Shadow - Anything less then the 525 and you are not doing the boat justice.
What happens when you hit 80?

[prosthogod]

Take the 13k for the Ho and add the upcharge for the 525(15k) and get a Larry Peto efi 650hp motor. You'll be much happier all the way around.

[Singleton]

You just go 80.
I am just saying if I wanted to go 80 or more in a boat, I would start to look at the 27.

[BLOWN SLEEK 32]

Yo Ultra27jay That Shadow Is A Sled:)

[shippingguy]

What happens when you hit 80?
Nothing happens Wes. I have many hours behind the wheel of that boat and the boat runs as solid as can be. There is one out there right now with a custom built 750 HP motor with a shot of NOS on it running hard and very stable.
Mike

[Jyruiz]

I don't think anybody is going to go with the HO over the 525.

[RiverDave]

before anyone says use the search button... I already did!;) and found a bunch of comments and feedback. lets just consider this the updated thread... and not just about speed of the boat, but the lifestyle that goes along with boating, and the fun!
is it really worth the difference in price (15-18k) for the small gains of MPH? alot of people say yes, and claim that nobody comes back wanting a slower boat, which I believe is true. but is the difference in performance THAT big between the 496 and the 525? and yes its only a little bit of difference in your monthly payment on the loan, but it's a 15-20k difference when it comes to paying that sucker off!
my buddy has ridden in our friends boat... 26' force w/ 496... and they were running with our other buddies 26' dcb f26 w/ 525. he claims the difference in speed was not big at all... the dcb barely was creeping by, and took atleast a 1/4-1/2 mile before it was a good gap up ahead of them? and he said they all had a blast on the force (5 of them w/ coolers and so on).
one thing that I would definitely like about the 525 is that the boat would get on plane quicker than the 496 (and the boats in comparison would be 26-27' cats). that is a + , but not sure if it outweighs the cost?
pretty much just looking for feedback for people with similar experiences or that run either or engine in a comparable boat. are you happy with the 496 for what it is or hate it? if you got the 525... was it worth the 15k?
I know when I get the boat I wont be running it all day long, alot of it will be kicking back and hanging out with friends... that's another main reason the cost has alot to do with my decision. the boats I'm primarily interested in are the 26' shadow, or the 27 shadow? would I be hating myself if I put an HO on the 27'? or would I still be having a blast? my thoughts are, that it's my first boat... enjoy it for what it is for 4 years or so, and then REALLY step it up, and get into something that the price differences actually make major differences in performance... such as a 32' with twin 710's or so.
......
...
..
-Pat
Empire, I'll go against the grain here a little bit.. Honestly I don't think the 525 is worth it at all.. It's a 15 - 18K "upgrade" like you said.. (just the upgrade costs.. not factoring in the base price of the HO) For that much money, you can go out and have an engine builder, build you a naturally aspirated 600'ish HP motor. I haven't actually quoted one yet, but I'd bet you could hit up BadBlown572 here on the boards for one of his 600HP/600 Torque motors with a 1 year warranty (optional up 2 2 years) for around the same price.. Or for just a click more (2 grand maybe?) get the 750HP version..
When it's all said and done, you pull your HO, and you can sell that for 10'ish grand (depending) and you'll be in the whole program 5 - 10K depending on various things.. You'll probably have to spend more becuase of the huge performance upgrades requiring hydraulic steering etc.. Finance the steering in the boat, run the HO for a year or two then sell the HO, and upgrade that shiznit aftermarket would be my suggestion.
RD

[2forcefull]

Will you get more speed out of the twin sbc's vs teh single 525? (How much)
Price is the same?
The idea for me was the drives, I'm foc'n sick of break'n them
I will only be putting 320 hp to the drives.
the computer says in the middle 90s
so maybe 5 or 10 mph faster.
I think the longivity and hav'n twins is a better deal
plus, you could pro charge them on low boost and scream

[Wmc]

I have a 26' Daytona with a 525 and I love the thing. With 2-3 people the thing jumps onto plane faster than any other cat I've been in. On Memorial weekend with 4 people and half tanks I got 84 on GPS speedo. I can cruise at 60-65 no problem where the 496 you will be running it pretty hard to keep it at those speeds.
Before this boat I had a 28 Magic Deck with a 496HO and it was a slug. So needless to say my experience with the 496 was tainted a bit.
Personally I would spend the extra as you have an overall better platform if you ever wanted to upgrade and if not you have a bitchin turn key boat.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/Memorial_Weekend3.jpg
Did you forget about this Magic that was all over you that Memorial weekend:D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

What happens when you hit 80?
My HO, CMI powered 26 has seen the low 80's a few times. Other than an unbearable amount of wind for those in the back seat, the boat handled like a champ. I don't have external steering yet so I don't make a habit of running above 72 or 4500 rpm's.
Not only for the increased power but for the increased durability. The only parts of the current HO that are forged are the rods. Cast crank and pistons. The 525 uses forged rods, a forged crank and forged pistons and come from the factory with CMI headers. While the 525 is factory rated at 500 HP the actual output is said to be near the 560 mark.
The only 525 26 Shadow that I know of ran in the high 80's This is about 10 mph better than a stock HO in the same boat.
Not to mention that 525's sound so much better than an HO.
Do I wish that I had a 525 in my boat? The answer is YES!
Would I have spent 18k more for a 525? Probabally not. (I'm not making payments so 18K is a chunk of cash)
jm

[drejustice]

The difference in $$$ isn't just in the engine. You say the difference is 20K initial but then look at insurance.
496Ho 675.00 per year
525 3500.00 per year
5 year cost difference is 14225 plus the initial 20K and your looking at 34,225.00. 5-7 mph isn't worth that to me. I'll take the 496HO and my 2 trips a year to the carribean, the extra $$ for gas to run WOT all weekend. If someone gave me a free upgrade to a 525, well then I guess i'd do it.
:)

[shippingguy]

The difference in $$$ isn't just in the engine. You say the difference is 20K initial but then look at insurance.
496Ho 675.00 per year
525 3500.00 per year
5 year cost difference is 14225 plus the initial 20K and your looking at 34,225.00. 5-7 mph isn't worth that to me. I'll take the 496HO and my 2 trips a year to the carribean, the extra $$ for gas to run WOT all weekend. If someone gave me a free upgrade to a 525, well then I guess i'd do it.
:)
You can get legit insurance for the 525 for way less than $3500 a year. I had a 525 in my last 27 Shadow and with legit insurance I paid just over $1000.

[Ivan Dan]

The difference in $$$ isn't just in the engine. You say the difference is 20K initial but then look at insurance.
496Ho 675.00 per year
525 3500.00 per year
5 year cost difference is 14225 plus the initial 20K and your looking at 34,225.00. 5-7 mph isn't worth that to me. I'll take the 496HO and my 2 trips a year to the carribean, the extra $$ for gas to run WOT all weekend. If someone gave me a free upgrade to a 525, well then I guess i'd do it.
:)
Not sure what companies you called for quotes but there are MUCH MUCH better deals out there than that.

[beaverretriever]

Need to remember the boat he is looking at.
However if you want that speed then look at the 27 (safer boat in my mind with those speeds - more freeboard). I think high 70's to low 80's in the deck is pushing it. Once you get those numbers go to the 27.
The 27 Shadow - Anything less then the 525 and you are not doing the boat justice.
LOL, 80+ in a engineered 24-26ft deck boat is only pushing it if the conditions don't allow (un-vested children and other passengers, traffic, water conditions, etc).
If the boat has been designed properly and conditions allow, go fast as you want.

[Not So Fast]

i have a 27 shadow with a 496 ho, and i hated it from day one. now i just put in the hp500 and what a difference, with the ho and 7 people 100 galons of gas and 2 ice chests the boat would not do over 55:( .... get the 525 u will love the extra torque u get out of it. now i like my boat but come winter ill be putting in a whipple. u will allways want more.......good luck.
Thats interesting and since I just swapped for the same, if you dont mind would you put up your numbers. When I put mine up everybody goes "Is that all" ??? If you use the 12-15 HP figure for 1mph gains then my 4-5 mph gain is spot on, but then I'm truthful to a fault also, Why stretch it, it is what it is. Its the cruising speed that is mucho better at 4000rpms.
Dr DRE-- My insurance went up NOT A PENNY and I told them about the swap, so your $3500@ year seems suspect to me. $525 @year :idea: NSF

[Deano]

I wouldn't do the upgrade. That's alot of coin for an xr and 100hp upgrade.
If I ever ordered a new boat, it would have a peto in it for sure. You get WAY more for your money AND a warranty. He is building some very high quality efi engines.

[duner21]

The difference in $$$ isn't just in the engine. You say the difference is 20K initial but then look at insurance.
496Ho 675.00 per year
525 3500.00 per year
5 year cost difference is 14225 plus the initial 20K and your looking at 34,225.00. 5-7 mph isn't worth that to me. I'll take the 496HO and my 2 trips a year to the carribean, the extra $$ for gas to run WOT all weekend. If someone gave me a free upgrade to a 525, well then I guess i'd do it.
:)
I am building a new conquest top cat II right now. I went with the 525 and my insurance is the same as my nordic with a ho. About 790 bucks a year! I plan on keeping this boat for a while so i wanted to be happy with the way i built it so i busted out the coin! That way i am not doing another boat next season.

[Pussywhippled]

Take the 13k for the Ho and add the upcharge for the 525(15k) and get a Larry Peto efi 650hp motor. You'll be much happier all the way around.
Or get the 496 and have Larry turn up the volume to 830hp for a gazillion dollars...

[EmpirE231]

thanks for all the replies so far!!
does peto have a website? and do builders work with him at all? or would you have to order the boat minus any power??
seems to be a toss up... but more in favor of the 525... which I am too, but my financialy alert brain isn't :devil: :idea:
those with the 27's w/ 496... is the boat a slug? or is it still fun? does it take forever to plane? and what you max / cruising speeds? I would definitely stick with the 496 on the 26' ... but a toss up on the 27?!!

[Cole Trickle]

thanks for all the replies so far!!
does peto have a website? and do builders work with him at all? or would you have to order the boat minus any power??
seems to be a toss up... but more in favor of the 525... which I am too, but my financialy alert brain isn't :devil: :idea:
those with the 27's w/ 496... is the boat a slug? or is it still fun? does it take forever to plane? and what you max / cruising speeds? I would definitely stick with the 496 on the 26' ... but a toss up on the 27?!!
If I could afford it I would do the 525 in the 27 Shadow. Realisticly the 26 Deck seems to be ruuning close to the same speed with only an HO.If you got the cash spend it:D

[shippingguy]

thanks for all the replies so far!!
does peto have a website? and do builders work with him at all? or would you have to order the boat minus any power??
seems to be a toss up... but more in favor of the 525... which I am too, but my financialy alert brain isn't :devil: :idea:
those with the 27's w/ 496... is the boat a slug? or is it still fun? does it take forever to plane? and what you max / cruising speeds? I would definitely stick with the 496 on the 26' ... but a toss up on the 27?!!
The 26 Shadow Deck planes out very quick with the HO and runs very strong. That boat will run solid mid 70's. Throw the Dana Exhaust on and that boat will touch 80-82 with an HO in the cooler weather. People do not want to believe it, but ULTRA26 #1 boat has seen 82 on GPS. I was running side by side with him and I have dual GPS Speedos on my boat. 27 Shadow I would go with a the 525.

[Beer-30]

Dr DRE-- My insurance went up NOT A PENNY and I told them about the swap, so your $3500@ year seems suspect to me. $525 @year :idea: NSF
Remember Bobby, he is a sport-cat and you are a deck boat. Deck boats are insured like "family boats". In insurance eyes, sport-cats flip over / decks don't.

[shippingguy]

Remember Bobby, he is a sport-cat and you are a deck boat. Deck boats are insured like "family boats". In insurance eyes, sport-cats flip over / decks don't.
Nope the 26 Shadow is a deckboat.(If you are talking about drejustice's boat.

[Not So Fast]

Remember Bobby, he is a sport-cat and you are a deck boat. Deck boats are insured like "family boats". In insurance eyes, sport-cats flip over / decks don't.
Yep, lost my head there for a moment Paul, and didnt compare boat to boat. Thats another reason deckboats rule :D NSF

[beaverretriever]

People do not want to believe it, but ULTRA26 #1 boat has seen 82 on GPS. I was running side by side with him and I have dual GPS Speedos on my boat. 27 Shadow I would go with a the 525.
Was that an EBAY GPS? I kid, I kid.;) :D

[ultra27jay]

Yo Ultra27jay That Shadow Is A Sled:)
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFuuuuuu mr bobby g.....:D

[shippingguy]

Was that an EBAY GPS? I kid, I kid.;) :D
:D :D :) Nope Livorsi. :)

[Devil's Advocate]

I like our pretty blue motor.:rolleyes: :D

[dicudmore]

thanks for all the replies so far!!
does peto have a website? and do builders work with him at all? or would you have to order the boat minus any power??
seems to be a toss up... but more in favor of the 525... which I am too, but my financialy alert brain isn't :devil: :idea:
those with the 27's w/ 496... is the boat a slug? or is it still fun? does it take forever to plane? and what you max / cruising speeds? I would definitely stick with the 496 on the 26' ... but a toss up on the 27?!!
Slug is a relative term...is it still fun? By all means, its a boat, thats the only way they come... Will it take "forever" to plane? YES... but, do you care? are you racing anybody to a certain spot that the holeshot really matters?? The 27 is such a solid, stable, easy to drive platform that you will be "bored" with the speed #'s of a 496 within your first 15 minutes of driving it. At the speeds the boat will run, its on RAILS, a monkey with down syndrome could be at the controls. The guy who bought my old 27 (525) had never driven a boat before and was asking about making it faster after the first weekend...the boat works that good...

[SHOTKALLIN]

thanks for all the replies so far!!
does peto have a website? and do builders work with him at all? or would you have to order the boat minus any power??
seems to be a toss up... but more in favor of the 525... which I am too, but my financialy alert brain isn't :devil: :idea:
those with the 27's w/ 496... is the boat a slug? or is it still fun? does it take forever to plane? and what you max / cruising speeds? I would definitely stick with the 496 on the 26' ... but a toss up on the 27?!!
http://www.larrysengine.com/

[beaverretriever]

At the speeds the boat will run, its on RAILS, a monkey with down syndrome could be at the controls.
Hey, I represent that. :eek:

[Beer-30]

Nope the 26 Shadow is a deckboat.(If you are talking about drejustice's boat.
Ah, all it said was 26' Shadow, I thought that was the name of the regular cat like the 27'. My bad.

[drejustice]

The difference in $$$ isn't just in the engine. You say the difference is 20K initial but then look at insurance.
496Ho 675.00 per year
525 3500.00 per year
5 year cost difference is 14225 plus the initial 20K and your looking at 34,225.00. 5-7 mph isn't worth that to me. I'll take the 496HO and my 2 trips a year to the carribean, the extra $$ for gas to run WOT all weekend. If someone gave me a free upgrade to a 525, well then I guess i'd do it.
:)
Time to eat crow. I'm upgrading to the 525 and it wasn't free.:redface: Found insurance for about 1300.00 per year no layup with full disclosure. Wife isn't happy about the $$ spent I told her not to worry as we are off to Vegas in 2 weeks and i'd get it all back there:D