12V audio myths. - Add yours

[rivercrazy]

* Capacitors stabilize voltage
* Top quality RCA's sound better
* More expensive amplifers have higher sound quality
* Square subwoofers are better
* $1,000 headunits sound better than $250 units
* Small air leaks in sealed sub boxes impact SPL or SQ
* Rockford Fosgate amps run cool
* Regulated amps are superior to unregulated designs

[rivercrazy]

O2 free expensive copper power wire will have less resistance compared to less expensive cable

[rivercrazy]

- $250 head unit sound the same as $1000 head units.
- Cheap amps sound as good as expensive ones.
Only if your in the audio sales!

[Havasu Hangin']

...while I'm talking about the entire mating surface of the sub being unsealed. :rolleyes:
I have two questions for you:
1. What the hell do you think a port is? It's a BIG air leak, but somehow, the sub still works. IT'S A MIRACLE!
2. What kind of third-grade installer doesn't know how to screw a sub to a box?
:notam:

[ROZ]

Oh, I have one....
ShockwaveBob has a Shockwave and his name really is Bob ;) :D

[Havasu Hangin']

A port in an enclosure is not the same as the subwoofer leaking from behind it's mating surface. If you think it is, you need to do a little more research before you attempt any further installs.
Wow..sorry about that. I guess I need to spell things out on a third-grade installer level:
Q. Can leaking air affect the output of a sub because of sound cancellation?
A. No. Since the soundwaves cannot escape small holes...only big ones like ports, there is no ill effect.
Q. Can leaking air affect the output of a sub because the suspension is no longer supported by a sealed box?
A. No. Most subs are designed for sealed or ported enclosures (a port is a big-ass air leak).
Next week's lesson will be on how to use wire cutters instead of safety scissors.

[rivercrazy]

Bad grounds cause amps to run hot

[ROZ]

I do own a Shockwave and my name is not Bob. ;)
I thought you got rid of it... The boat not the name :D

[Havasu Hangin']

Bad grounds cause amps to run hot
Amps get hot because of low voltage or a too small gauge power/ground wire.

[rivercrazy]

Or bad designs pushed by large brand names

[ROZ]

Q. Can leaking air affect the output of a sub because the suspension is no longer supported by a sealed box?
A. No. Most subs are designed for sealed or ported enclosures (a port is a big-ass air leak).
Next week's lesson will be on how to use wire cutters instead of safety scissors.
My only coment is that the BA Pro drivers needed to be completely sealed. They relied 100% on the the cabinet for suspension... If you had any leaks , ran big power, and used it, you really were pushing it's limits..
Okay, Carry on :D

[BADASS38CHEVY]

This is getting good.

[Havasu Hangin']

And, why have you turned to insulting my intelligence or education level simply because of the job I do?
Shockwierdbob does get hot from posts on the internet.

[ROZ]

I have a better idea... the two of you team up and do Select's installer challenge together :D

[Havasu Hangin']

My only coment is that the BA Pro drivers needed to be completely sealed. They relied 100% on the the cabinet for suspension... If you had any leaks , ran big power, and used it, you really were pushing it's limits..
I covered myself on the sealed-enclosure specific subs...
Q. Can leaking air affect the output of a sub because the suspension is no longer supported by a sealed box?
A. No. Most subs are designed for sealed or ported enclosures (a port is a big-ass air leak).

[rivercrazy]

Subwoofer enclosures made from MDF will sound any different than marine plywood of similar thickness and construction quality

[ROZ]

I covered myself on the sealed-enclosure specific subs...
I saw that... I was just sayin... I like to hear,err, read my own sheit on the net.. I'm vain like that :D

[rivercrazy]

He'd blow his entire budget on two sheets of 2" marine ply and 4000 stainless screws. :D
LMAO!

[ROZ]

Subwoofer enclosures made from MDF will sound any different than marine plywood of similar thickness and construction quality Throw this one out.. There might be a difference... One of the ply's may have a crack in it and develop a rattle over time... You'd probably hear it in a closed environemt like a car..

[rivercrazy]

that O2 free copper power wire will stay 02 free!

[ROZ]

He'd blow his entire budget on two sheets of 2" marine ply and 4000 stainless screws. :D
:D

[rivercrazy]

Throw this one out.. There might be a difference... One of the ply's may have a crack in it and develop a rattle over time... You'd probably hear it in a closed environemt like a car..
This is a boating website and were talking about boat systems. Also marine ply is HIGHLY unlikely to have this kind of problem.
And if your using Kicker subs a rattle might increase SQ!

[Havasu Hangin']

Throw this one out.. There might be a difference... One of the ply's may have a crack in it and develop a rattle over time... You'd probably hear it in a closed environemt like a car..
A few extra screws will fix that right up.
:D
If WFS did the install, I'd check the sub screws first, though.
And if your using Kicker subs a rattle might increase SQ!
:jawdrop:

[ROZ]

Damn..you guys are hardcore :D

[Havasu Hangin']

We decided not to screw subs in anymore, on your advice. We're going for the big ass air leak mounting style you've popularized.
Will you guys have any paste and rubber bands left over from making the box?
:D

[rivercrazy]

I like it. Paper mache subboxes glued with a elmers

[ROZ]

Our new saying is "Get a Brahma for your mama." You know how we roll. :D
Well I think you just made HH's day... I think he's a Adire Audio fan... :)
Great now this thread is going to died.. You guys will agreee on something...

[Havasu Hangin']

If we do, we'll probably use them to mount the head unit.
shockwavebob- THIS IS ADAM. hh is right..u r an idiat. please see me in my orifice in the morning.

[Tom Brown]

1. What the hell do you think a port is? It's a BIG air leak, but somehow, the sub still works. IT'S A MIRACLE!
It is a column of air that, if properly designed, will resonate in phase with the driver at a given frequency. The port resonant frequency is typically engineered to the F3 of the driver. That is, when it's engineered at all.
A port is a massively different thing than a simple hole drilled in an enclosure. A port will provide damping for driver where the hole will not (at least, not at low bass frequencies).

[Tom Brown]

Q. Can leaking air affect the output of a sub because of sound cancellation?
A. No. Since the soundwaves cannot escape small holes...only big ones like ports, there is no ill effect.
This is a great point. The escaping air is 180* out of phase and will directly cancel the front wave but a 1/8" hole can not compete with a 12" cone so the losses are small.
Q. Can leaking air affect the output of a sub because the suspension is no longer supported by a sealed box?
A. No. Most subs are designed for sealed or ported enclosures (a port is a big-ass air leak).
A sub can't be optimized for both type of enclosures. The optimal Qts of a driver designed for a ported enclosure is quite different from the optimal Qts of a driver designed for a sealed enclosure. The drivers I've seen lately all seem to be high Q drivers (stiff suspension) that are probably best suited for an application somewhere between a bass reflex enclosure and infinite baffle. ... but people put them in sealed boxes anyway. ... and they generally work.

[Tom Brown]

I've got an idea, let's all post pictures of our work instead of this Bench Racers stereo install BS. :D Oh, wait, I've already done that. ;)
Making a nice looking installation is quite a different skill from building a speaker with proper acoustic and electrical design. Very few people can do all three.
Now I know that baffle diffraction and zobels are beyond the rhelm of car audio design but building a decent system takes a lot more than just building a box to control the cone from hitting Zmax.

[Havasu Hangin']

A port is a massively different thing than a simple hole drilled in an enclosure.
Yes.
Port = big "column of air"
Air leak = little "column of air"
A sub can't be optimized for both type of enclosures.
Man, do I feel dumb! My last set of subs had specs for both types of enclosures...and I followed them...and I actually thought they sounded great.
My bad.

[riverbound]

Here's a couple myths :D
Rockford Amps dont belong in boats.
Kicker stuff sounds good.
Waterproof MDF.
You need caps in a boat.

[riverbound]

Look at TB gettin' all technical and Shit :D

[Tom Brown]

Man, do I feel dumb! My last set of subs had specs for both types of enclosures...and I followed them...and I actually thought they sounded great.
Sure, they will work generally but the response won't be as good as a properly designed system with a driver optimized for the enclosure type. A high Q speaker will roll off sharply at F3 and that's probably a positive thing with car audio when all you're looking for is some bass thump but it's not like having an optimized driver.
My Maxima has towing instructions in the manual (for real). I put a hitch on it and tow with it. It may not be quite as great at towing as a pickup truck, though. I guess it would be hard to say since I think it tows great and I will continue to use it for that purpose.

[ROZ]

The drivers I've seen lately all seem to be high Q drivers (stiff suspension) that are probably best suited for an application somewhere between a bass reflex enclosure and infinite baffle. ... but people put them in sealed boxes anyway. ... and they generally work.
I call it dummyproofing.... Makes it a little harder for the unknowing DIY'r to blow... I guess MFG's found that people couldn't even follow directions on making enclosures with the specs they provided and STILL got too many Ra's :D
Solution high Q drivers :D

[ROZ]

Now I know that baffle diffraction and zobels are beyond the rhelm of car audio design but building a decent system takes a lot more than just building a box to control the cone from hitting Zmax.
Hell... It can take a week to do a freq. sweep and stop every rattle you detect...

[Tom Brown]

Solution high Q drivers :D
Call it a feature and charge an extra hundred. :D

[ROZ]

Call it a feature and charge an extra hundred. :D
I like the way you think! :D

[h2oski2fast]

Sure, they will work generally but the response won't be as good as a properly designed system with a driver optimized for the enclosure type. A high Q speaker will roll off sharply at F3 and that's probably a positive thing with car audio when all you're looking for is some bass thump but it's not like having an optimized driver.
That makes no sense........... It may roll off sharper after the F3 point, but the F3 point is the frenqency at which point the sound is -3db.

[Tom Brown]

That makes no sense........... It may roll off sharper after the F3 point, but the F3 point is the frenqency at which point the sound is -3db.
It makes perfect sense.
High Q will be a speaker with a sharp resonant peak. It will roll off sharply on both sides of it's response curve. A typical acoustic suspension driver might roll off at 6 dB/octive (at least below 12) at F3 while a high Q driver might roll off at 24 dB/octive or even higher at F3.

[ROZ]

I'm going to sit back and watch you two get all Theile/Small technical...and shit :D

[rivercrazy]

Another myth - running your ground back to the battery is better than grounding to body or frame metal near where the amp is installed (in autos)

[ROZ]

Another myth - running your ground back to the battery is better than grounding to body or frame metal near where the amp is installed (in autos)
If I was to build a competing car, I'd run the cable back to the batery ground as well as ground the chasis :D

[1stepcloser]

* 6 volt battery banks play longer than 12 volt.
* Capacitors use power, and have no advantages. :wink:
* More speakers make a better sounding system.
* SWB & HH are actually good friends.
* Automotive and marine installation guidelines are basically the same.

[riverbound]

Fiberglass boxes sound better!

[riverbound]

6.5"s sound better than 6x9"s (in a boat application)

[riverbound]

Just because its loud....it sounds good.

[Cole Trickle]

Most talented installers have stock stereo's/No stereo's in ther cars,Rhinos and boats....
Oh wait that is usually true!!! :crossx: :p

[desertbird]

Most talented installers have stock stereo's/No stereo's in ther cars,Rhinos and boats....
Oh wait that is usually true!!! :crossx: :p
Yeah, and most mechanic's cars don't run right or leak oil.
...and gynecologists don't like eating pussy.
Great thread guys. I've been lurking through the A/V forum because I am getting ready to do an install in my new truck. Although this thread has offered me ZERO info, it was most entertaining.
:argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue:

[desertbird]

SWBob, I tried to PM you with a question, but HB reports your storage quota is full.

[Havasu Hangin']

SWBob, I tried to PM you with a question, but HB reports your storage quota is full.
He's definately full of something...
:notam:

[1stepcloser]

He's definately full of something...
:notam:
Himself perhaps? :)

[Havasu Hangin']

Himself perhaps? :)
How can anyone who know everything be "full of himself"?
:)

[Brian]

...* Capacitors use power...
Making caps out of superconducters these days?
:D

[Havasu Hangin']

You diss me for being educated and you diss Adam for not knowing how to spell. There's no pleasing you. ;)
Uhhhh...what is "diss"?
Is that some kind of "audiobonics"?
http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/cool/cool0008.gif

[rivercrazy]

LOL!
http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=020321