Damaged goods?

[R.A.D.man]

Have an issue at work. Ordered a special order item that was manufactured and shipped by my vendor to me, upon arrival, items were damaged and delivery was refused and the shipper took the goods with them. Just received a bill for the damaged goods and the replacement goods. Called vendor, they say I need to make the claim, I figured it is their responsibility. This is with Fedex Ground. Who should be responsible for making the claim for reimbursement from the shipper?

[BrendellaJet]

Was your PO FOB origin or destination? If it doesn't specify I would take a look at your agreement with the vendor(if you have one on file). Can also depend on whose account the product shipped on.

[Big Inch]

Generally speaking the responsibility will lie on whomever paid for shipping.

[R.A.D.man]

Purchase was FOB and the vendor paid for the shipping and passed the cost on to me in their invoice which included the original pieces and the replacement pieces, this is one of my biggest vendors, I'm one of their biggest accounts too, they are telling me its my problem. Fedex Ground has now confirmed that me as the receiver of the goods has to file the claim. Just seems real backwards. So be warned, if you order something, its damaged, you did not pack it, or select the shipper, and a replacement is shipped to you too, you pay for both items and freight and you have to make the claim for reimbursement and wait for your money which will at least take 30 days minimum, I bet it takes at least double that. I'm not paying the vendor until I get paid that's for sure. Now I have to do all the paperwork for it. This sucks.

[R.A.D.man]

I'm sure I will have a salesman visit me in the near future wondering where all our business went. I look forward to that day.
He is offering no help whatsoever with this issue.

[R.A.D.man]

Generally speaking the responsibility will lie on whomever paid for shipping.
That's what we thought. Now we are being told otherwise.

[Big Inch]

That's what we thought. Now we are being told otherwise.
When mentioned it was FOB on another post but FOB where? If you are being charged for shipping on their invoice then that implies it is FOB shipping point not FOB destination. Essentially their liability ends when it touches the carrier's hands since they are billing you for it, regardless of who's account the actual shipping charge goes on. They may not have asked you which carrier you preferred to use but since you are paying for it I'm sure they give you the choice. Also if it was insured I'm sure that cost would be billed to you as well. It's very basic contract law and is why very few things are sent with shipping built into the price of the goods. Why do you think all those late night infomercials can offer free trial periods and money back guarantees on everything and still stay in business?

[Big Inch]

Take your business elsewhere, unless you can't. I'd refuse to pay the invoice.
Good advice.

[R.A.D.man]

That's the stupid end result. My business goes elsewhere.
I just pisses me off that I had no hand in getting the goods to the point where they were identified as damaged except for placing the order in the first place, and it's my responsibility to clean up the mess. This whole thing cost me a week and a half of crew production too.

[Seadog]

I would get a lawyer to confirm this, but if you refused delivery, it seems that your claim is that you never had possession of the goods. So you cannot be charged for goods or services that you do not receive. I am sure there is loop holes on both sides of this. It depends a lot on who can do without who the most.

[R.A.D.man]

When mentioned it was FOB on another post but FOB where? If you are being charged for shipping on their invoice then that implies it is FOB shipping point not FOB destination. Essentially their liability ends when it touches the carrier's hands since they are billing you for it, regardless of who's account the actual shipping charge goes on. They may not have asked you which carrier you preferred to use but since you are paying for it I'm sure they give you the choice. Also if it was insured I'm sure that cost would be billed to you as well. It's very basic contract law and is why very few things are sent with shipping built into the price of the goods. Why do you think all those late night infomercials can offer free trial periods and money back guarantees on everything and still stay in business?
By your explanation, it is FOB shipping point, they billed me for it.
I did not accept it, it was refused at the dock and never unloaded. I thought the goods would go back to the vendor at that point. Now they are in la la land somewhere.

[Big Inch]

I would get a lawyer to confirm this, but if you refused delivery, it seems that your claim is that you never had possession of the goods. So you cannot be charged for goods or services that you do not receive. I am sure there is loop holes on both sides of this. It depends a lot on who can do without who the most.
You have the right to refuse the goods and return them at your expense but since he is billed for the shipping and I would assume has been billed for shipping on all of his prior orders from this company then the law will side with the vendor. The fact is that by him being billed for it and agreeing to pay for the shipping he is also agreeing to the carrier. In fact, in court it would be shown that it was his choice of carrier and that the vendor has no responsibility for damage caused to their goods by his carrier of choice. He would be forced to either pay for the goods or pay to repair them and possibly compensate the vendor for restocking and possibly more.
If this vendor and/or your salesman values your business at all then just tell them to make it right or you will never do business with them again. Even if legally they can prove it is your responsibility they still should take care of it for you. After all you are their customer.
Best of luck with the situation. It's hard to believe these people are still in business with this level of customer service.

[Rexone]

It's standard procedure that the receiver has to file shipping claim with the freight carrier for damaged goods. Once the freight leaves the shippers dock it is out of their control and in the control of the freight company whether it be UPS or other. Most companies have this written right into their terms and conditions of purchase that damage claims must be filed directly with the freight carrier. All of our major vendors do. When we receive damged stuff we file the claim with UPS or the applicable freight carrier. This is the type of thing shipping insurance is designed to cover. UPS automatically insures to $100 and offers insurance in $100 increments above that amount. Most trucking companies you have to specify value and insurance on the bill of lading.
Now if the buyer requested insurance on the shipment and the shipper didn't insure it that might put another twist in the equation. We won't ship anything that isn't insured for it's value for this very reason. We want our customers covered in the event of a loss and we can't afford to absorb freight company's mistakes or losses of shipments. It's just part of the shipping costs.
Also if you receive damaged goods keep the packaging. Depending on the value the freight company rep may want to see it when you file a claim.

[BrendellaJet]

That Free On Board thing doesn't hold much weight in court either, just FYI.
Where are you getting this information. The term FOB deals specifically with title transfer. It is a legitimate legal term and actually does hold weight.

[R.A.D.man]

It was shipped on the vendors Fedex Ground account and they pay that bill, not me. I pay the shipping charge when the goods are invoiced to me, no COD in this instance if anyone wonders.
Big Inch, it seems the vendor will leave it as our problem. I too would think they would step up and offer some help in an instance such as this but they are not.
In the end, it will not hurt me outside of the extra effort I have to make to get the claim. It will definately hurt the vendors sales to have an account such as mine seemingly disappear. My customer is happy and knows nothing of this issue and never will. They have already given me twice the work in new contracts as compared to what this issue relates to. I can get the goods for the new work elsewhere.

[HokeySon]

That Free On Board thing doesn't hold much weight in court either, just FYI.
Not sure why you would say that (I am guessing a bad experience). millions of dollars have been decided upon just this issue.
Generally speaking (because this stuff is much more complicated than it should be), risk of loss passed at the FOB point. At that point, the purchaser has an insurable interest that he/she can protect.
To caution others -- risk of loss can pass earlier than delivery to an FOB point-- expecially in the case of specially manufactured goods. Like I said: more complicated than it should be.

[Rexone]

While the vendor can certainly put some pressure on the freight company via their rep (which we do in these situations), the receiver is responsible for actually filing the damage claim with the freight company. Freight company policy dictates this procedure.
In the case where a shipment is lost and never received by the buyer then the shipper would file the claim.

[R.A.D.man]

Now if the buyer requested insurance on the shipment and the shipper didn't insure it that might put another twist in the equation. We won't ship anything that isn't insured for it's value for this very reason. We want our customers covered in the event of a loss and we can't afford to absorb freight company's mistakes or losses of shipments. It's just part of the shipping costs.
Also if you receive damaged goods keep the packaging. Depending on the value the freight company rep may want to see it when you file a claim.
You mention its the buyers responsibility to recover costs, then you mention you can't afford to absorb a freight companies mistakes so you insure everything you ship. Is this to protect the seller or the buyer, now I'm really confused because why do you need to protect yourself if its the buyers responsibility?
I just read yoou last response. That's answers my question. My post took too long.

[R.A.D.man]

Rex or ***boat Pros,
So as a purchaser of goods, what steps do I take at the point of delivery of damaged goods to help speed a claim? Do I keep the damaged goods or refuse them entirely. I always felt if they were accepted, then I would be screwed because I in fact accepted them. Rex says the opposite when he says keep the packaging.
Also, as a buyer, Rex is saying it is my responsibility to request insurance on goods being shipped by a seller and not the sellers responsibility to insure them as the shipper for the value of the items they are shipping?
Like Hokeyson said, this is more complicated than it should be.

[Rexone]

We automatically insure everything we ship. To protect both us and the customer in the event of a loss or damage (the insurance does not distinguish a difference between the coverages at time of shipment, covers both). But all shippers may not do this unless the customer specifies it. It's an option we have to fill in on the shipping terminal. So that's a variable I guess shipper to shipper.
Most damage is discovered after the receipt of goods. Your question would be a good one for Voodooman perhaps as to the refusal or acceptance if damage in known prior to acceptance of goods. Not sure on that one where the claim responsibility falls.
As far as filing a claim most freight companies have a standard procedure and customer service number I think to handle just such issues.
Bottom line is if it was insured and the product was not packed improperly (a big out the freight insurance carrier will try to exploit to avoid paying claims, which is the same reason you always keep all the packaging) you or the shipper will get reimbursed and the problem will go away. If the shipper did in fact pack improperly causing the damage the liability will usually fall back on them and the insurance claim will be denied. In that case the shipper then has a choice to make as how to handle the customer.

[HokeySon]

Rex or ***boat Pros,
So as a purchaser of goods, what steps do I take at the point of delivery of damaged goods to help speed a claim? Do I keep the damaged goods or refuse them entirely. I always felt if they were accepted, then I would be screwed because I in fact accepted them. Rex says the opposite when he says keep the packaging.
Also, as a buyer, Rex is saying it is my responsibility to request insurance on goods being shipped by a seller and not the sellers responsibility to insure them as the shipper for the value of the items they are shipping?
Like Hokeyson said, this is more complicated than it should be.
I wish I could give you a straight simple answer, but I can't. It all comes down to being "commercially reasonable" and what the contract states. Personally, I would keep the goods and write something about the damage on the shipping reciept, UNLESS the delivery was under a bill of lading or negotiable instrument of title, then I wouldn't accept it. Then I would deal with the seller or hauler as the case may be.
Also, I respect Rex and have no quarrel with what he has written about his own practice. However, there are lots of different ways to do things and risk of loss doesn't always pass when the goods are delivered to a shipper. In fact, in consumer transactions (as opposed to business dealings), I would guess that risk of loss stays with the seller unless clearly and unambiguously stated to the contrary.
Oh, and just to make it more complicated for you, every state is a little bit different on the legalities.

[Dave C]

ditto. Thats my understanding as well.
Rex has a good point.
Not sure why you would say that (I am guessing a bad experience). millions of dollars have been decided upon just this issue.
Generally speaking (because this stuff is much more complicated than it should be), risk of loss passed at the FOB point. At that point, the purchaser has an insurable interest that he/she can protect.
To caution others -- risk of loss can pass earlier than delivery to an FOB point-- expecially in the case of specially manufactured goods. Like I said: more complicated than it should be.

[Tom Brown]

That's the stupid end result. My business goes elsewhere.
I don't see how you have a choice, particularly if the vendor forces the shipping choice as so many do.
Lots of vendors still force UPS only, although not as many do it anymore. When I order something, pay the abusive UPS charges they throw on Canadians both at the source and the destination, and then receive a busted up box.... that's the end for that vendor. If they're calling all of the shots, they get to take all of the responsibility too.
When I chose the shipping method, I feel a little less righteous about portioning blame. I've only received one damaged package from CanadaPost and it was from the business of a friend in the US. A bunch of heavy steel parts were thrown loose into a pretty thin walled box with no filler. It's little wonder the box got torn to bits. When I received it, pieces of the box and all of the contents were in a thick plastic CanadaPost bag with a form letter apology on it from CanadaPost. Miraculously, the contents were all in perfect shape. That vendor is nobody on this forum, by the way.

[Jbb]

[QUOTE=Tom Brown;2677806When I chose the shipping method, I feel a little less righteous about portioning blame. [/QUOTE]
Just getting a package from you is becoming an oddyssey....:D

[Tom Brown]

Just getting a package from you is becoming an oddyssey....:D
Perhaps but when you receive my package, you will enjoy it.

[Jbb]

Perhaps but when you receive my package, you will enjoy it.
The ****ers in customs must be.....:mad:

[Tom Brown]

The ****ers in customs must be.....:mad:
I just shipped it 8 days ago so it's not that late just yet.
... but if it should come to pass that you feel the package has become lost or damaged, go to your local post office and deal with them. I can't be responsible for anything I ship.
Thank you for your patronage,
Park Management.

[R.A.D.man]

I just shipped it 8 days ago so it's not that late just yet.
... but if it should come to pass that you feel the package has become lost or damaged, go to your local post office and deal with them. I can't be responsible for anything I ship.
Thank you for your patronage,
Park Management.
Touche ;)

[Big Inch]

I just shipped it 8 days ago so it's not that late just yet.
... but if it should come to pass that you feel the package has become lost or damaged, go to your local post office and deal with them. I can't be responsible for anything I ship.
Thank you for your patronage,
Park Management.
Literally in tears I am laughing so hard.