B.A.D.D. Boaters Against Drunk Driving

[TheCarDudes]

This is continuation of what I posted in another thread which I reposted here. There have already been many responses in support on the idea as well as monitary support from a few members here.
This post is from the thread where the little girl died at Topock
I don't post very often with opinions or strong gesture but I couldn't resist.
This whole thing is just terrible. We have 3 kids 15,14 and 3. I could not imagine life without any one of them. I could not imagine life being any part of that incident; making the call, receiving the call, driving the boat reponsible and living with that on my conscience. It's just bad all the way around.
R.I.P. little angel. Our prayers go to everyone to find the strength to get through this.
Hopefully this is a wake up call for everyone.
I think we need to all step up and try to take some control of the situation. Like it has already been stated, with accidents like this, it will only be a matter of time before we are stripped of our freedom as we enjoy it today in regards to boating in Havasu and surrounding areas. Unreasonable speed limits will be set, rules will be changed, laws will be passed. As Rex said, high performance boating might not survive another decade, at least not in Havasu if this keeps up.
It seems that there are a certain group of people here that are willing to make a difference now. I pledge to be part of that group. I think the idea of printing the article and keeping it on the boat is great. I'm going to do it. I going to go one step further. I'm going to print extra copies to pass out to boaters that I see are drinking and even thinking about driving.
I suggest we take it one step further. With alcohol being suspected to be involved and most probably true in the last 3 fatalities in Havasu and the river, I think it's time for some kind of movement. We need to establish a "group name" against boating under the influence. It should go beyond the flyers and printed articles. I know there are a bunch of companies related to the industry that would or should be happy to support this cause. We need to have T-Shirts of a unique color printed. Wearing one of these t-shirts while you are boating states that you support the cause. I remember a HB memeber in spam looking for silk screening work. Maybe we can get a great deal from him. We can make our presence shown so that others will hopefully feel compelled out of respect to join in. Come on people. We can all post on here and state our opinion, I think we need to make it known in the public and be so obvious that we make a difference. I have read many posts up to this one about what everyone is commiting. Let's take it to the next step before it gets to the next step on its own in a bad way.
We just need the help of a few indiviuals in town to get this done. We need someone to design the shirt. Any graphics designers here? We need some one to coordinate the silk screening. Everyone can pitch in with either contacting anyone in the industry they do business with in town for some kind of a small donation to get the shirts done. This will help keep the cost down for any individuals that want to purchase these shirts. There could also be some other ideas funded by these donations to help stop OUI. I'm reaching out to anyone who wants to be invloved. Boat manufacturers, service facilities, restaurants, anyone and everyone.
Is this a lofty goal? Can we do this? I think we can. I sure want to make a difference now. Just think of that sick feeling you got by reading this post from the beginning. Convert that to determination to make this happen.
I would like to make the first commitment for a donation. I will personally donate $500.00 to help get this going. I want to see it happen for the safety of my family and everyone else on the lake. A very small price to pay for everyone's well being. Any small donation by a business or an individual will get us that much closer to making this happen. We need the power of many. The many people here that care.
Please keep this positive people. Please post only positive remarks instead of bashing the idea. I know it may sound like a huge undertaking, buy I know it can happen in some form at some level and grow. I know there are people that watch things happen and people that make things happens. I'm looking for the ladder of the two. A long time ago a group of mothers against drunk driving formed MADD, look at them today. The D.A.R.E. program has been exteremely effective everywhere. This can happen, at least in our little resort town. I need a few peeps to step up to take responsibilty to help me get this done. Any of those people either retired or with some extra time on our hands in Havasu, please speak up. It's not much to do if you have the time.
Our goal is to keep our intentions true and real. We have made many comparisons to driving a car. No matter what your position on the boating subject is or will be, we will still think it is OK to go to dinner and have a beer or glass of wine and them drive home. I think that is OK. It is why we have "legal limits" of blood alcohol content laws. I don't think this is about saying that anyone who is a part of this will never enjoy "A" beer with their turkey sandwich while anchored in a cove somewhere. And maybe another beer an hour or two later before it is time to pull the anchor and go home. This is about responsibilty, not abstinance. If you need to completely abstain from drinking to reach your goal, then that is your decision. Just rememer that your choice to drink affects everyone in your boat as well as everyone else on the lake around you that day. So, make your decisions accordingly. Set goals to be responsible and to be an example. Don't set goals to be failed. Just be responsible.
Once again, I will start this fund with the first $500. PLEASE keep this positive. Post up any ideas you have to contribute here.
Peace
George

[Magic34]

As I said in the other thread, I am in 110%. :)

[VictoryIzMine]

Moderators...Please make this thread a Sticky.

[driverno8]

I'm in and second making this a sticky

[BoatPI]

??

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Also as I stated in the other thread, I'm in on this one
BoatPI here is your pic
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36540&d=1186425564

[TheCarDudes]

Also as I stated in the other thread, I'm in on this one
BoatPI here is your pic
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36540&d=1186425564
I like this pic. Very simple and to the point. It should be incorporated on the shirts, stickers, pamphlets, etc. We can discuss the benefits of starting a chapter of the national B.A.D.D. as compared to starting our own deal (LHBADD). As soon as I get the info from them, I'll post it up here.

[boats&bars]

Good thinking, The problem is not just at havasu maybe a campain for everyone, I think a 800 number for these dumb asses to call and get towed in might help, kinda like the AAA arive alive program.

[jbtrailerjim]

Turns out that there already is a Boaters Against Drunk Driving organization. Maybe a Havasu chapter could get started?
http://www.badd.org/chapters.htm

[TheCarDudes]

Turns out that there already is a Boaters Against Drunk Driving organization. Maybe a Havasu chapter could get started?
http://www.badd.org/chapters.htm
Yes. Someone else pointed it oit in the other thread. I've already contacted them and have info on the way.
Thanx for the heads up.
George

[finsfan4life]

??
Of course with the family's permission, how about adding a memorial and the little girls Name (or even a pic) to this T-shirt......

[boats&bars]

Of course with the family's permission, how about adding a memorial and the little girls Name (or even a pic) to this T-shirt......
how about all of the names of the people that have died this year.

[uLtRADeNniS]

How about cooziess?... You'll think twice before putting a beer in it.

[driverno8]

How about cooziess?... You'll think twice before putting a beer in it.
Great idea and they're only a buck a piece.

[BoatPI]

Keep everyone updated as I would truly like to see LHMA be a leader in this. I am in.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

How about cooziess?... You'll think twice before putting a beer in it.
cooziess????? Help
________________
The following was taken from the "Young Girl Dies at Topock" thread.
Pretty much.. and I'll bet 100.00 says if they get those shirts made, I'll grab a picture of somebody wearing one of those shirts drinking a beer, getting ready to drive a boat inside of 3 months.
Hell look at the guy that started the thread Ultradennis, we were at a bar, saw this tragedy, and we poured out our drinks and went up river. What were you drinking Dennis? A coke? Not likely..
As well this same board, has absolutely zero clue as to what happened, or what caused the accident. Hell to my knowledge they haven't even confirmed that alcohol was a contributing cause to the accident, yet they want this guy to hang from the nearest tree, and start a movement.. WTF?
That's the mentallity of this board.. I think it's a terrible idea to get wasted and boat, but I also think it's a terrible idea to support something blindly with zero leadership, zero responsibillity for their own actions, in the name of a good cause.. What a sham.. They could likely do more damage to our sport in a shorter amount of time then throngs of drunk boaters.
You people are on a witch hunt, and all logic has gone right out the window.
Everybodies gotta blame something though I guess.
RD
Dave,
It's true that we don't know if the death of this innocent child was related to alcohol or not. If you recall you and I have communicated about driving a boat while drinking on another occasion. If I also recall, your position was that you didn't want your right to drink and drive your boat taken away as a result of those who can't handle alcohol as well as you believe you do.
There are many of us who post in these forums who are fed up with those who drink and drive on the water. Of course we all understand that lack of experience plays a large role in boating accidents. However, add alcohol to a lack of experience, you have a recipe for disaster.
If the the person who caused this had a blood alcohol level of over .08, he/she should be severely punished. There are laws against OUI. There are no laws against lack of experience.
Crowded weekends on AZ Lakes and Rivers have become dangerous enough without adding alcohol into the mix. Anyone driving on the water at .08 or more, increases an already high level of danger.
Preserving the rights of those who desire to use the AZ Lakes and Rivers safely, is far more important than preserving your right to drink and drive.

[soulboater#1]

I am down for this!! we have had to many problems with DRUNK AZZ boaters in 100+mph boats with beer bongs and the Jeager being passed around. Come on people, lets do the right thing and hand the keys to someone in the boat who has not had a drink and that person will get you and the crew back to the marina!!
.. I am the guy that does screen printing on shirts and we NEED to get shirts out to people! Maybe a grey with black writing(not to dark of a color for the river)
Let me know how i can help with the cause-cause it is way over due!
Your Soulboater#1

[Todd969]

The LHCMA is an very strong supporter of boating safety.
As funding/members keep coming in we can have the ability to be at Windsor\site 6\LH marina, with handouts.
FYI- the LHCMA is more than Havasu, it's Davis dam to Parker dam.
There's alot of changes coming to boating on the river as you know it. Sadly it's accidents like this that give those agencies the ammo needed to make said changes. Don't let 1 idiot ruin the recreational boating life you and your family enjoy.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r103/todd969/lhcmatrifold.jpg?t=1186437839
Todd 928-208-6044

[uLtRADeNniS]

cooziess????? Help
________________
The following was taken from the "Young Girl Dies at Topock" thread.
Dave,
It's true that we don't know if the death of this innocent child was related to alcohol or not. If you recall you and I have communicated about driving a boat while drinking on another occasion. If I also recall, your position was that you didn't want your right to drink and drive your boat taken away as a result of those who can't handle alcohol as well as you believe you do.
There are many of us who post in these forums who are fed up with those who drink and drive on the water. Of course we all understand that lack of experience plays a large role in boating accidents. However, add alcohol to a lack of experience, you have a recipe for disaster.
If the the person who caused this had a blood alcohol level of over .08, he/she should be severely punished. There are laws against OUI. There are no laws against lack of experience.
Crowded weekends on AZ Lakes and Rivers have become dangerous enough without adding alcohol into the mix. Anyone driving on the water at .08 or more, increases an already high level of danger.
Preserving the rights of those who desire to use the AZ Lakes and Rivers safely, is far more important than preserving your right to drink and drive.
Hes a real tool.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Then why all the "BADD" talk in this thread? Or is the reality of the situation, your using this little girls death as shock value to help further your own personal agenda? But it's a good cause right?
Survey says, wrong big guy.. I don't drink and boat, but if I do it might be one or two across the day. My position (for the 500th time) is I'm tired of people claiming booze is to blame for everything, becuase they can't blame the person at fault. People blindly point the guns at the booze dealio, and proceed to crush one of the few freedoms we have left, when in reality irresponsible operators are at fault for 95% of the accidents out there.
There are many of us that are fed up with people trying to create legislation and support legislation that protects people from themselves. The country was based upon freedom and the idea of personal responsibillity in your own pursuit of happiness. I don't need some lawmaker with zero boating experience telling me what's right and what's wrong. What you don't understand is creating a cause like this just puts another crack in the dam. Sure it looks responsible on the surface.. Performance boaters against drunk driving.. What could be more responsible then that? We'll say you accomplish your mission, we'll say you get zero tolerance in a boat! Great!! It doesn't stop there, it never does.. next thing you know, no open containers in boats.. Congragulations you just killed the river. Don't believe me?
Some guy that doesn't own a boat, doesn't know anything about boats, and could really care less about us, decided 86DB is how loud YOUR boat should be..
Well there should be laws with regards to actually looking at what the cause of EVERY accident was, and not just saying "well that guy had a beer lets hang him." There was an incident with a jetski and a boat on parker not that far back.. jetski swiped a floating boat.. Guy in the floating boat went to jail for OUI (for floating and minding his own business). Is that right?
I don't want to be the one to break this to you, but the river is safer then it has EVER been!! less wrecks, less fatalities etc.. I'm not sure if you know this, but boating is kinda dangerous. If it wasn't dangerous then odds are it wouldn't be fun.
And there is where you and I disagree.. You immediate decide for you and the rest of the world what's right and what's wrong, or what's more important.
Safety is NOT the most important thing. Would you support a law that demands all of our citizens wear helmets at all times? Why not, it'd be safer? People die tripping over curbs and hitting there heads. There's some statistic that an amazing amount of golfers fall out of karts and hit there heads on sprinklers and die.
Personal responsibillity is where it's at.
Look at Kilrtoy's deckboat thread and you might start to catch on.. 2 morons turn the wrong way.. Kilrtoy was in the wrong for running up on a situation that hard with the "I gotta DCB get outta my way attitude"
1st thing that anybody says is "Well he DOESN'T DRINK!!" Well does that make his mistakes right?
Garaunteed if I had my 2, 3, 4, or whatever amount of beers.. I wouldn't have put myself in a situation to spin a cat out in the reeds.. I ain't in that big of a hurry, and I wouldn't endanger the other people in my boat to feed my ego. If I'm satan becuase I believe that accepting responsibillity is a STATE OF MIND, and not something that is negotiable (beer or no beer) then so be it..
In the meantime, you got Kilrtoy up on Havi stone cold sober, not accepting responsibillity for anything and taking part in actions that could've ended up just like this story.. But he was sober so I guess that makes it alright?
RD
Well everyones got differing opinions on this..
I'm far more concerned about inexperience, and "stuck on stupid" as some put it, then people that have had cocktails and know what there doing.. Just my opinion.
RD
Depends on who you ask.. Some argue it's more difficult then driving a car, others would argue it's ridiculously easier (me being one of them).. Matter of opinion I suppose.
RD
Isn't a person that gets up off the couch more likely to get hurt?
Isn't a person that doesn't wear a helmet every day more likely to get a head injury? I mean everybody trips and falls sooner or later?
Should it be a law that we have to wear shoes in the shower? A shitload of people die from slipping in the shower every year (alot more then you'd think)
when you start making laws to protect people from themselves, then your no longer living in the land of the free.. (and the home of the brave). WITH FREEDOM COMES RESPONSIBILLITY, AND ACCOUNTIBILLITY. If you take that away then YOU ARE contributing to the errosion of our society as a whole..
RD
If that were true then the laws would factor in the people they are trying to protect. They don't.
If that were true, people wouldn't get DUI's for sleeping it off in their car. That's right, if the keys are even inside the car with you (not in the ignition) you get a DUI..
If that were true they wouldn't give DUI's to people on bicycles and skateboards now would they?
RD
My response suggests that people should use common sense. One could say well common sense dictates don't drink and drive..
One could also say that common sense dictates not to go tear assing around if you've been drinking. :idea:
You keep comparing it to a car.. Can you idle a car home from the bar at 2 mph?
Common sense dictates that darwinism can, and will happen regardless of how many laws we try to make to prevent it. My common sense tells me that we were better off before when 2 or 3 beers didn't cost you 10 grand, and try to ruin your life. Especially given the fact that alcohol isn't even the #1 cause of boating accidents!
#1 cause of accidents in boats is inexperience.. Don't believe me? That's what the US Coast guard claims is the #1 cause of all boating related accidents.
LOL... I love how your posts come off with such authority.
EVERYBODY STOP POSTING!!! Ultra 26 # 1 said END OF STORY!!!
Who do you think you are?
I'm sure you believe your in charge of something, and maybe your wife and kids don't know that you aren't.. But buddy I know, and I'm here to tell you, your less then a pimple on the ass of progress, and you ain't exactly talking to Ultra John over here, so lose the tone dipshit.
RD
Don't make me give you my "Oh" face.. :D
You sure about that? Becuase the way laws are being created and enforced as of late it's very questionable if any of us are in charge of ourselves anymore? Travel a little bit, and you'll realize how much freedom we really have here in America..
Then how come they don't give tickets for that?
even if one is safer then the other? Or perhaps not a cause of a problem to begin with? can you tell me switching the law from .10 to .08 really saves lives? If you can say yes to that, can you tell me the same for when they are about to switch it from .08 to .05 or .04?
I'd agree.. Those people making these laws need to get some common sense. ;) :D
RD
2 points here.. Lack of experience is in fact the # 1 Cause.. Not booze.. This brings up the point the stupid people were stupid from the get go, booze didn't make them that way.. (Albeit I'll admit it does make stupid people worse)
2nd.. You pointed out that 100% of the accidents are above .08.. How many of those same accidents were above .10? I'd bet 99.99% You said it yourself once.. There seems to be 2 types of boaters out there nowdayz.. Dead sober and totally wasted (1.5+ kinda guys)
So the few people like myself (and countless others on this board... come to think of it "few" is not the right term) that'd average a .05 - .08'ish maybe on a good day .10 BAC get screwed, when in reality lowering the limits does NOT help to solve any of the problems, becuase the people with experience in the .08'ish range aren't the ones doing stupid shiznit..
RD
26 you should thank Brown for the Assist, but lets not go patting each other on the ass just yet..
Define Drunks Canatard.. People doing Beer Bongs, and shots? Or a guy having 2 or 3 beers watching the game? You see your entire argument (this post) is based off the fact that "impaired" is "drunk" when in reality, .08 you could hardly be called drunk..
And everytime I'm in a bar getting near closing time I get my shit and go, becuase these people aren't "impaired" they are drunks and at some point there's gonna be problems..
I sound like one of those assholes? Damn Brown now my feelers are all hurt n shit. I might have to sig my mentally unstable attack dog on you, if only she didn't have to cross all those rail road tracks to get there..
Lets talk REALITY here Brown.. Do you think you'd see a crowd of people in front of your car and in instance 1 (sober).. Wait for them to pass, but in Instance two (.08 - .10) your going to mash the gas and run them all over? Do I need to even describe what that sounds like?
Brown at one or two beers I'd have a hard time believing I handle my liquor better then 99% of the people out there?
Few being the key word there Brown.. I'm sure if I drank 2 road rapers and did a bunch of beer bongs it'd only be a matter of time before I would think it's the worlds greatest idea to nuke canada just to permanently put a lid on what's commonly known here in the states as "Hanson." :D But after a "few" well, he's no threat, just a little leprechaun in short short shorts..
RD
All your words Dave. Again, it appears you most concerned with losing your right to "have a few" while boating.

[RiverDave]

Ultra26, if your going to be taking posts from other threads.. atleast take all of them, replies included..
Be aware if your not careful with your actions in this matter, you couple of people (not thinking 100% clearly) can do more damage to our sport in a matter of months, then the greenies, and every other anti performance boat group could in years.
I can not stress enough how bad of an idea I think this is, especially with morons like you and Dennis at the helm. Swallow your pride and do what's best for the sport, not for your ego.
If your gonna do it, atleast let somebody with half a brain that will consider the consequences of their actions be the guiding factor. Hell let boatcop do it if you feel it absolutely has to be done.
In reality though (again) stats prove, the river is safer then it's ever been.. I'm not sure the need to go starting an activist group to strip more people of their rights is absolutely necesarry at this point..
RD

[Tom Brown]

.... you couple of people (not thinking 100% clearly) can do more damage to our sport in a matter of months, then the greenies, and every other anti performance boat group could in years.
Dave, is 'our sport' drinking and boating? I don't hear anyone trying to shut down boating.
... especially with morons like you and Dennis at the helm.
One thing on which you and I are in complete agreement Dave, is that Dennis is a moron. :cool:

[RiverDave]

All your words Dave. Again, it appears you most concerned with losing your right to "have a few" while boating.
Read each posts in it's entirety moron.. Or perhaps we can take a look at yours the same way?
Does that mean this post above just says "Have a few while boating!"
I'm not concerned with having a few while boating or not having a few.. I'm concerned (FOLLOW ME ON THIS FOR THE 100TH TIME) that PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE CAUSING BIGGER PROBLEMS FOR THE SPORT, BY CREATING SOLUTIONS THAT DON'T SOLVE THE PROBLEMS AT HAND"
I.E. Your saying that guy drives like a jack ass! Lets lower the BAC content some more..
Or That guy got into an accident!! He blew a .15, lets lower the BAC some more..
Or Lets lose all beer from boats!! if you need beer to have fun then go home!!
Or most recently I.E. this thread Hey an accident happened that we know nothing about!! Lets start an activist group!!
It's not about the booze retard, it's abuot self responsibillity!! Of which I can tell you have NONE. If you got into a boating accident, I can already tell you'd have every excuse under the sun ready, accept the most obvious "I did something wrong."
RD

[RiverDave]

Dave, is 'our sport' drinking and boating? I don't hear anyone trying to shut down boating.
Yeah well there probably not up in Canada.. but rest assured they are down here!
One thing on which you and I are in complete agreement Dave, is that Dennis is a moron. :cool:
Well it doesn't take much to put that puzzle together.
RD

[uLtRADeNniS]

Hey Rd, looks like you need to pull your head out of your ass.

[uLtRADeNniS]

Dave, is 'our sport' drinking and boating? I don't hear anyone trying to shut down boating.
One thing on which you and I are in complete agreement Dave, is that Dennis is a moron. :cool:
Who the fock do you think you are... call me a moron when you see me on the river. ;)
you fockin bitch!

[Tom Brown]

It's not about the booze retard, it's abuot self responsibillity!!
What, if anything, would you propose to improve safety at the river, Dave?
Is your position that things are safer than ever so no (or, at least no drastic) changes are needed?
What about 100% enforcement? I guess the easiest implementation of that would be to check 100% of people as they pull their boat out of the water. Are you in favor of that?
I read Froggy's note on a half dozen people being arrested for BUI/DUI on a 100% of a few hundred people. My interpretation of those results are different than his, however. To me, that statistic shows that about 1~2% of people are so f ucking stupid and/or such chronic alcohol users that they will drink and boat/drive even if they know there is 100% chance of getting caught.
The BUI on that 100% enforcement lake probably went down significantly when they started that enforcement program.

[Tom Brown]

Who the fock do you think you are... call me a moron when you see me on the river. ;)
you fockin bitch!
Dude... seriously.... are you retarded?

[RiverDave]

Hey Rd, looks like you need to pull your head out of your ass.
Dennis, someday when you grow up you'll realize I'm right.
RD

[uLtRADeNniS]

Dude... seriously.... are you retarded?
No I believe I just called you out. ;) Some times people need to learn to stop trash talking behind their computer screens and not back it up in person.
Next time you see me flag me down with that rainbow flag you hang on your boat.

[HavasuSelect]

No I believe I just called you out. ;) Some times people need to learn to stop trash talking behind their computer screens and not back it up in person.
Next time you see me flag me down with that rainbow flag you hang on your boat.
Dude, grow up.

[uLtRADeNniS]

Dennis, someday when you grow up you'll realize I'm right.
RD
Your right??
Did I once say shit to you? You started running your mouth about me trying to say I drink and boat. Thats my problem with you. Do I believe that alcohol is the only thing causing these wrecks??..NO! Go back and read what I posted in that thread. I strongly believe that lack of experiance has way more to do with it.
Dont start fockin trash talking me without knowing what your talking about.

[THOR]

No I believe I just called you out. ;) Some times people need to learn to stop trash talking behind their computer screens and not back it up in person.
Next time you see me flag me down with that rainbow flag you hang on your boat.
Is this thread really gone this direction? Resulting in threatening someone who insulted you via the internet? Unbelievable that a little girl is dead, you are condeming every person that has had a drink and driven, and folks are creating their own faction on how to enforce a law that doesnt yet exist.

[uLtRADeNniS]

Dude, grow up.
stay outta of it;)

[uLtRADeNniS]

Is this thread really gone this direction? Resulting in threatening someone who insulted you via the internet? Unbelievable that a little girl is dead, you are condeming every person that has had a drink and driven, and folks are creating their own faction on how to enforce a law that doesnt yet exist.
Who did I condemn??? huh??

[Tom Brown]

Some times people need to learn to stop trash talking behind their computer screens and not back it up in person.
When I was younger, I volunteered with a group that organized events for mentally disabled youth. I developed a lot of respect for that group of people, both the volunteers and the disabled.
One of the things I bring with me from that experience is a hessitancy to really unload on someone who shows the signs of a disability. These individuals were doing the best they possibly could and I have to respect that.
This is why I'm treating you with some respect, uLtRADeNniS. Between your anger and stupidity, I believe you are truely disabled. I'm sorry for that and wish you well.
:cool:

[OutCole'd]

When I was younger, I volunteered with a group that organized events for mentally disabled youth. I developed a lot of respect for that group of people, both the volunteers and the disabled.
One of the things I bring with me from that experience is a hessitancy to really unload on someone who shows the signs of a disability. These individuals were doing the best they possibly could and I have to respect that.
This is why I'm treating you with some respect, uLtRADeNniS. Between your anger and stupidity, I believe you are truely disabled. I'm sorry for that and wish you well.
:cool:
Tom, shush, you've been "called out"......:rolleyes:

[riverbound]

Hey Rd, looks like you need to pull your head out of your ass.
Young and dumb.... In all reality it looks as though you need to pull YOUR head out of your ass. You posted about being at the bar (drinking) and then pouring your drink out jumping in your boat and (driving) it up river. :idea:
Then all of a sudden you are on the B.A.D.D. band wagon. :idea:
Very hypocritical if you ask me.
I can honestly say (as someone who is with RD 99.9% of the time he is at the river) we have a DD 99.9% of the time and boat safer than most "sober" boaters on this board. the .01% of the time I can say the person behind the wheel is maybe a drink or 2 deep and idling back from the bar.....at a whopping 4 MPH I dont see anyones life in Danger
If you cant see the commons sense aspect RD is trying to point out your original name is the one you shoud have stuck with.
I have been a round quite a few times where a truly impaired driver tried leaving RDs dock (including me)only to be pulled out of the boat and told you will NOT be driven home or to be driven home by a sober member in our group.
I recall a time where I had a couple drinks and a sober driver was driving a group us home, he almost put us up on the shore,hit a sandbar, hit another boat floating in the water, and was driving WAY too fast at night. I ended up taking the wheel and literally idled the boat home. EVERYONE on the water that night was safer with my "drunken Killer" ass behind the wheel, then Mr. Sober idiot with no experience.
Like has been state SOOOOOOO many times. Inexperience or lack of self control is more of a danger than a couple drinks.

[THOR]

Who did I condemn??? huh??
It sure seems like that is in your tone. You just need to step away and take a deep breath.

[RiverDave]

What, if anything, would you propose to improve safety at the river, Dave?
Is your position that things are safer than ever so no (or, at least no drastic) changes are needed?
What about 100% enforcement? I guess the easiest implementation of that would be to check 100% of people as they pull their boat out of the water. Are you in favor of that?
I read Froggy's note on a half dozen people being arrested for BUI/DUI on a 100% of a few hundred people. My interpretation of those results are different than his, however. To me, that statistic shows that about 1~2% of people are so f ucking stupid and/or such chronic alcohol users that they will drink and boat/drive even if they know there is 100% chance of getting caught.
The BUI on that 100% enforcement lake probably went down significantly when they started that enforcement program.
My proposal Tom, is everybody should take a safe boating course when they purchase a boat. I don't care if they are previous boat owners or not, they should take another one when they sell and upgrade.
My proposal Tom, is that they oughta put the ocean boats back in the ocean, and leave the river boats to the river.. but out of respect and common sense not legislation..
My proposal Tom, is for people to man up and accept responsibillity for there actions.. Case in point, there are several on this board that can't drive for shit, sober or impaired. They should understand that and ask for help or perhaps there friends should man up and make suggestions? Could save someones life someday.
My proposal Tom, is more cops out on the water excersizing COMMON SENSE, by that I mean they used to leave you alone if you weren't doing something stupid, and only pulled over those that appeared to be doing something wrong or wreckless.
My proposal Tom, is that the current cops out on the water doing safety inspections without asking to see any of the safety equipment should find new places to work.
I got proposals for days.. But my most important proposal is for people to understand the basic concept that a person is smart but people are dumb. (Well not so much in young Dennis's case but that's neither here nor there) If you get an angry mob pointed at something, they can do alot of damage.. Best to make sure your intentions, and game plan, or rather ducks are in a row before you go pulling the trigger on something like that, and finally if you are gonna do it, make sure you have someone with atleast half a brain behind the wheel of that program. Someone who's best interest is for the sport and not for their own personal agendas.
RD

[Tom Brown]

Who did I condemn??? huh??
Hey Algernon....... over here.

[uLtRADeNniS]

Real good one Tom Brown.
You both came out talking to me for NO reason. I did or said nothing for either you to make comments about me. If you read that whole thread I started, you will see that I never bashed anyone or blamed drinking for all boating accidents.
You wanna talk about growing up??..Ok..
Its really grown up and mature of you to come on this thread which THECARDUDES started. He felt from his heart that he wanted to do this with his time and his money to hopefully save lives and prevent restrictions on the river. You have no right to come on here and put everyones idea down. Im sorry that both of you have small black hearts and dont care about anyone else, as long as you get to have your few beers and drive.
Grow up.

[Magic34]

The point isn't to change the laws.. It is simply to trigger something in someone that might change a decision. This doesn't need to be a pissing match in points of view.
For example...
If there was an 8' large white sign in front of the ramp at Windsor that had this on it...
"On August 5, 2007 andother child was killed by a drunk driver of a boat on this lake"
"Dont drink and drive."
Now, before I go any further, we dont know what caused the accident, but everyone does know and tests show that the ability to make a decision when over the legal limit is hindered.
Legislation would have to be changed to deal with inexperienced boaters. Once again, I dont think the point is to change anything in the legal system, it is just to create another level of awareness.
Shirts, hats, whatever. Dave is right... Someone who would be wearing the shirt eventually will kick back 4-5 beers and go for a ride, but you cant stop the cause.
We need more than brochures and lame bumper stickers. Create a sign that is 1 very last reminder before going out on the water. That is just an idea. The rangers taking your money... A simple 15-20 words as they are handing you change. "Be careful, a little girl died from a drunk driver last weekend and we want everyone to stay safe."
Reminders are all that I would be looking for with this group. Party hard, but make sure you can get back to the ramp safe and legally. That would be my message.

[riverbound]

Who the fock do you think you are... call me a moron when you see me on the river. ;)
you fockin bitch!
Well since Tom is Canadian... I doubt he boats the same River you do;) But I would be more than willing to discuss you moronish behaviors with you when I see you at the river. i will meet you at Foxes for Bloody mary's and then we can jump in the boats and drive while discussing how bad drinking and driving is ;)

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Ultra26, if your going to be taking posts from other threads.. atleast take all of them, replies included..
Be aware if your not careful with your actions in this matter, you couple of people (not thinking 100% clearly) can do more damage to our sport in a matter of months, then the greenies, and every other anti performance boat group could in years.
I can not stress enough how bad of an idea I think this is, especially with morons like you and Dennis at the helm. Swallow your pride and do what's best for the sport, not for your ego.
If your gonna do it, atleast let somebody with half a brain that will consider the consequences of their actions be the guiding factor. Hell let boatcop do it if you feel it absolutely has to be done.
In reality though (again) stats prove, the river is safer then it's ever been.. I'm not sure the need to go starting an activist group to strip more people of their rights is absolutely necesarry at this point..
RD
Dave,
This isn't about ego or your right to have a few. I'm sure you can handle a few just fine.
The problem is, and it is becoming more apparent every single weekend, that there are way to many people driving boats who can't hold their alcohol. My boat is 13 months old and has 146 hours on it. I see this shit every time I'm out which, I know, is more than most.
IMO, I see the best way of enforcing OUI laws LE setting up launch ramp exits from 4:00 pm to 7:00 pm.
For some reason you want me to accept that alcohol is in some way good for the sport of performance boating and displaying one's distaste for drinking and driving, on the water, is in some way, bad for the sport of performance boating. I'm sorry Dave, I don't understand this.
I'm not in favor of adding new laws to the books, however I am favor of enforcement of the existing laws, with regard to illegal OUI.
John
PS. UltraDennis watching a child die in front of him was no doubt a life altering experience or a "wake up call" Give the dude a break.

[HavasuSelect]

Well since Tom is Canadian... I doubt he boats the same River you do;) But I would be more than willing to discuss you moronish behaviors with you when I see you at the river. i will meet you at Foxes for Bloody mary's and then we can jump in the boats and drive while discussing how bad drinking and driving is ;)
I don't think he can yet. When he first registered as Dumb and Young he was boasting in another thread about how he was a big underage drinker.

[riverbound]

I don't think he can yet. When he first registered as Dumb and Young he was boasting in another thread about how he was a big underage drinker.
Gotcha. Make sense ;)

[uLtRADeNniS]

I don't think he can yet. When he first registered as Dumb and Young he was boasting in another thread about how he was a big underage drinker.
Shouldn't you be putting High School Myspace regattas together? Again, stay out of this. I already dont like you, never have never will. So lets just end at that.
Dave,
This isn't about ego or your right to have a few. I'm sure you can handle a few just fine.
The problem is, and it is becoming more apparent every single weekend, that there are way to many people driving boats who can't hold their alcohol. My boat is 13 months old and has 146 hours on it. I see this shit every time I'm out which, I know, is more than most.
IMO, I see the best way of enforcing OUI laws LE setting up launch ramp exits from 4:00 pm to 7:00 pm.
For some reason you want me to accept that alcohol is in some way good for the sport of performance boating and displaying one's distaste for drinking and driving, on the water, is in some way, bad for the sport of performance boating. I'm sorry Dave, I don't understand this.
I'm not in favor of adding new laws to the books, however I am favor of enforcement of the existing laws, with regard to illegal OUI.
John
Agreed.

[RiverDave]

Dave,
This isn't about ego or your right to have a few. I'm sure you can handle a few just fine.
The problem is, and it is becoming more apparent every single weekend, that there are way to many people driving boats who can't hold their alcohol. My boat is 13 months old and has 146 hours on it. I see this shit every time I'm out which, I know, is more than most.
IMO, I see the best way of enforcing OUI laws LE setting up launch ramp exits from 4:00 pm to 7:00 pm.
For some reason you want me to accept that alcohol is in some way good for the sport of performance boating and displaying one's distaste for drinking and driving, on the water, is in some way, bad for the sport of performance boating. I'm sorry Dave, I don't understand this.
I'm not in favor of adding new laws to the books, however I am favor of enforcement of the existing laws, with regard to illegal OUI.
John
John, you see what every weekend? People that don't know how to drive a boat? You instantly assume they are OUI.. When these people cut you off, do you flag them down and give them the ole breathylizer?
Just becuase someones an idiot, doesn't know the rules of navigation, just financed there big ass, haul ass deckboat, and doesn't know how to drive doesn't make them OUI.. It makes them an idiot.
RD

[Magic34]

My proposal Tom, is that they oughta put the ocean boats back in the ocean, and leave the river boats to the river.. but out of respect and common sense not legislation..
RD
Damn, dont hold me down. :( I would have to say that I am safer in my 37' boat than 98% of all boaters on Havasu. I would like to think that I am safer than everyone, but I left some room for a few other people. :) :D Dont say I am not a giver. :D
I only go to the river 2-3 times a year.

[Magic34]

There is a way to keep the big boats off without changing any laws, but I dont want to share becuase I like my 2-3 trips per year. :D :D

[Tom Brown]

Again, stay out of this.
Consider him my guest. :cool:
His drinks will go on my tab and he's welcome to take my boat keys from the table, if he wants to go for a spin.

[Magic34]

This thread has gone to shit. Sad. :(

[RiverDave]

Damn, dont hold me down. :( I would have to say that I am safer in my 37' boat than 98% of all boaters on Havasu. I would like to think that I am safer than everyone, but I left some room for a few other people. :) :D Dont say I am not a giver. :D
I only go to the river 2-3 times a year.
Don't take it personal Mike it was a generalization of sorts.. If ya ask me though no that big ole bardge doesn't fit the bill for Havasu style boating. ;)
Doesn't mean I won't have a beer with ya though..
Wait a minute, is beer still legal?
RD

[Tom Brown]

This thread has gone to shit. Sad. :(
It's gone about the way you'd expect it to go if you were to try to reason with a bunch of bar patrons around closing time. :D

[HavasuSelect]

Shouldn't you be putting High School Myspace regattas together? Again, stay out of this. I already dont like you, never have never will. So lets just end at that.
Agreed.
Didn't I just deny your friend request to add the ***boat Myspace page?

[Magic34]

It's gone about the way you'd expect it to go if you were to try to reason with a bunch of bar patrons around closing time. :D
Tom, you are right.

[Tom Brown]

Wait a minute, is beer still legal?
Only if you don't get caught. :cool:

[Magic34]

Don't take it personal Mike it was a generalization of sorts.. If ya ask me though no that big ole bardge doesn't fit the bill for Havasu style boating. ;)
Doesn't mean I won't have a beer with ya though..
Wait a minute, is beer still legal?
RD
Anytime Dave. Yes, all the beer you want... I'm driving, always will be. :D :D

[Magic34]

Didn't I just deny your friend request to add the ***boat Myspace page?
This is fockin lame. Take it to another tread.
Sorry to quote you on this HavasuSelect, but all of this little personal BS like what you quoted is garbage.
It the internet people... Remember that. your kewboard doesn't deserve the abuse you are giving it as you get all pissed off.

[riverbound]

Anytime Dave. Yes, all the beer you want... I'm driving, always will be. :D :D
Ahhhem... I wouldnt mind a beer or 10 and a chauffer.
<---will be down below watching DirectTv with the AC going full blast :D

[RiverDave]

This thread has gone to shit. Sad. :(
What is sad is people using certain things of shock value, and emotional distress to try and further their own ideals onto others.
I stand behind everything I said, and I genuinely hope this deal never comes to light. I'll play whatever part I can in crushing it, if I feel it's a danger to the lifestyle of boating as a whole.
An angry mob on a witch hunt can only result in disaster.. Too much emotion, no common sense, no level head = disasterous results, for everyone in the end.
The power of this board is amazing.. I've seen it first hand. I'd hate to see it abused, and the people talking right now have no regard for the consequences of their actions. That's dangerous as shit no matter how you slice it.
Something that starts as a good idea, can quickly turn ugly (seen that 1st hand as well), and with dissention amongst the ranks, it's just more cracks in the dam that the greenies, and other activist groups can get their roots into to expand upon.
RD

[Magic34]

For what it is worth as well, I think that Dave brings up a very valid side to the discussion, actually one that fits hand in hand with the drunk driving side of things.
The way I see it, there are 2 problems... People who DRIVE while legally drunk, AND those lacking any experience or knowledge of boating.

[Magic34]

Ahhhem... I wouldnt mind a beer or 10 and a chauffer.
<---will be down below watching DirectTv with the AC going full blast :D
No dudes in the cabin other than me :D.
It's cool though, I have a 19' LCD in the cockpit too hooked up to the Tracvision. :D Dave can blow on you and give you the A/C effect. :D

[Singleton]

This thread has gone to shit. Sad. :(\
I agree. This tread started off great and is now a pissing match.
Let’s get back to the point of why this tread was started.
A group of members what to take action to attempt to reduce drinking while driving a boat, I personally think this is a GREAT IDEA.
If you are going to get into a pissing match, start another tread, this is not the place IMO.
And remember a little girl (someone’s child) passed away on the river last weekend, due to possible drinking and boating on the river. If that does not make you think, then what will?
Now let’s get back to the reason this tread was started.

[Tom Brown]

You know Dave, for what it's worth, I can see a lot of value in your argument with regard to making a law tougher, if the law is already being broken, will not help a situation. In this case, tougher enforcement is required.
You may have a defeatist view on this place and the discussions that go on here but I would suggest there are still some quality discussion and exchange of ideas taking place.
I've always respected the way you handle yourself in an argument and the way you don't hold it against people when the argument is done. It would be great if more people were like that. We could openly discuss religion, politics, world affairs, and whatever we want. We'd all be more informed, for the experience.

[RiverDave]

What is sad is people using certain things of shock value, and emotional distress to try and further their own ideals onto others.
\
I agree. This tread started off great and is now a pissing match.
Let’s get back to the point of why this tread was started.
A group of members what to take action to attempt to reduce drinking while driving a boat, I personally think this is a GREAT IDEA.
If you are going to get into a pissing match, start another tread, this is not the place IMO.
And remember a little girl (someone’s child) passed away on the river last weekend, due to possible drinking and boating on the river. If that does not make you think, then what will?
Now let’s get back to the reason this tread was started.
:rolleyes:
RD

[ULTRA26 # 1]

John, you see what every weekend? People that don't know how to drive a boat? You instantly assume they are OUI.. When these people cut you off, do you flag them down and give them the ole breathylizer?
Just becuase someones an idiot, doesn't know the rules of navigation, just financed there big ass, haul ass deckboat, and doesn't know how to drive doesn't make them OUI.. It makes them an idiot.
RD
Dave, I see people every weekend who are seriously intoxicated. Drive through the channel, stop at the Sandbar, the Mini Sandbar, or observe at the launch ramps, from Davis to Parker, and you will see in some focked up peeps, both operator and non-operator.
Again, Dave, I'm not making this up.
One thing on which you and I are in complete agreement Dave, is that Dennis is a moron. :cool:
UltraDennis, watched this innocent child die. A sobering experience, at least.
Now let's get back to the topic of this thread.

[Magic34]

What is sad is people using certain things of shock value, and emotional distress to try and further their own ideals onto others.
I stand behind everything I said, and I genuinely hope this deal never comes to light. I'll play whatever part I can in crushing it, if I feel it's a danger to the lifestyle of boating as a whole.
An angry mob on a witch hunt can only result in disaster.. Too much emotion, no common sense, no level head = disasterous results, for everyone in the end.
The power of this board is amazing.. I've seen it first hand. I'd hate to see it abused, and the people talking right now have no regard for the consequences of their actions. That's dangerous as shit no matter how you slice it.
Something that starts as a good idea, can quickly turn ugly (seen that 1st hand as well), and with dissention amongst the ranks, it's just more cracks in the dam that the greenies, and other activist groups can get their roots into to expand upon.
RD
Dave,
I fully understand what you are saying and I know that George and the others I have talked to dont want to change the laws or anything like that. We just want 1 last minute reminder before someone gets on their boat.
The idea behind the shirts are that if someone sees one, maybe they'll remember that before firing their boat up in the channel after a 6 pack and wait a few more hours to sober up.
Personally, I would like to see a sign at every launch ramp. Even something with an active count on it the rangers would change each day.
"37 days without a fatality on Lake Havasu"
"Stay safe, dont drink and drive"

[Magic34]

You know Dave, for what it's worth, I can see a lot of value in your argument with regard to making a law tougher, if the law is already being broken, will not help a situation. In this case, tougher enforcement is required.
You may have a defeatist view on this place and the discussions that go on here but I would suggest there are still some quality discussion and exchange of ideas taking place.
I've always respected the way you handle yourself in an argument and the way you don't hold it against people when the argument is done. It would be great if more people were like that. We could openly discuss religion, politics, world affairs, and whatever we want. We'd all be more informed, for the experience.
Tom, what has gotten into you. I agree with you 2x today now. Wow. :D
He is right. Dave doesn't take it personal and does well thought out posts. Regardless if you agree with him or not, you are able to have a good, healthy conversation about the subject.

[Tom Brown]

UltraDennis, watched this innocent child die. A sobering experience, at least.
Fair enough. I understand the guy is upset but it would go a long way if he could tone things down and perhaps back off on the fight requests.

[HavasuSelect]

This is fockin lame. Take it to another tread.
Sorry to quote you on this HavasuSelect, but all of this little personal BS like what you quoted is garbage.
It the internet people... Remember that. your kewboard doesn't deserve the abuse you are giving it as you get all pissed off.
You're right. I will admit it was inappropriate for this thread. I apologize to those who might have been offended.

[Magic34]

You're right. I will admit it was inappropriate for this thread. I apologize to those who might have been offended.
Nicely put. Great post.

[sofa king smooth]

Ultradenis you always seem to find yourself in some type of pissing contest and you always come out looking dumb. Take a chill pill and choose your battles.

[Ultracrazy]

:rolleyes:
RD
It's cool to see your side of the coin but not the others Dave? Why is that? You can spout your opinion but others can't? I don't get it. We all know how you feel and think yet God forbid someone might feel different.

[FOURQ]

I AM IN 200%.. I would like to add to the donations I will be willing to give $1000.00 from the sale of one of my boats. I have connections to a few local non-profit agencys here in town that could lead us to some grant money to help fund it. I will get the wife to post up what she knows about starting/running a non-profit as thats what she does. if there is anything I can do please let me know
Shawn
928-208-0291

[TheCarDudes]

I AM IN 200%.. I would like to add to the donations I will be willing to give $1000.00 from the sale of one of my boats. I have connections to a few local non-profit agencys here in town that could lead us to some grant money to help fund it. I will get the wife to post up what she knows about starting/running a non-profit as thats what she does. if there is anything I can do please let me know
Shawn
928-208-0291
Thanx Shawn. I'll call you probably tomorrow to get some info.
George

[vee-driven]

Ultradenis you always seem to find yourself in some type of pissing contest and you always come out looking dumb. Take a chill pill and choose your battles.
have a drink and calm down.

[Kaotic]

Thanx Shawn. I'll call you probably tomorrow to get some info.
George
Let me know if I can be of help. I can get you good quality white shirts for .0.95-1.15 each, printing for 1.50 - 2.00 per shirt, and coozies for .55 - .75 printed. The good coozie cups. I will do all this at cost, no mark up of any kind.
I can also send you the information were to get this pricing using my business license if you decide to print shirts or make the coozie cups.

[FOURQ]

Thanx Shawn. I'll call you probably tomorrow to get some info.
George
ya NO PROBLEM George..
and I would like to state that I am not for taking away anyones rights to drink while boating. Its just I think there needs to be some awareness giving to some people by the way of a heart hitting story weather it be a child or a friends death.kinda like when they put the smashed up cars from a DUI on display. maybe put a boat at a few of the ramps just to grab a little awareness. I have 4 children 2-10 1-8 and 1-6 I feel very bad for this family but that is not why I am standing behind this. I have been boating my whole life and seen many people get hurt or killed thats not it either. I would like to see our great sport live on like it has for me for my kids. we were all taught right from wrong we know the laws why not follow them how hard is that? now does that mean no drinking? I don't think so just use a little moderation. I do not drink while I have a boat on the water and that is my choice. I do not condemn anyone else for drinking either its just MY CHOICE for my safety and my passengers safety so I can hopefully react fast enough or see it coming before it happens.
just my feeling on the subject

[Tom Brown]

I AM IN 200%.. I would like to add to the donations I will be willing to give $1000.00 from the sale of one of my boats. I have connections to a few local non-profit agencys here in town that could lead us to some grant money to help fund it.
I don't understand the purpose of raising all this money? Is money needed for legal fees to copyright an organization name or perhaps instantiate a chapter of the existing BADD organization? Perhaps money is needed for an accountant, since you're collecting money.
If money were all that would solve the OUI problem, it would have been solved by now. Where I live, there are tons of TV spots that show the dangers of drinking and driving and we have a couple of spots (played less often) that plead a case against drinking and boating too. Guess what... people are still the same ignorant pricks they always were.
.... so, as much as I don't care for drinking and boating/driving, I will not donate money to this cause. If I thought it would make a difference, I might. I might even buy a t-shirt or three... even if they are at an elevated price for the purpose of raising money for some reason... but that's as far as I'd care to go.
Suit yourselves. I wish you the very best and I admire your intentions.
Seriously, if you raise a bunch of money, one day you'll find it gone. Tracing it down, you will likely as not discover it was used for the purposes of gambling, drugs, or drinking. No kidding. The alternative is to have a staff to look after the money. This, they will do very well with their salaries.
Sorry for the negativity but I just received a PM from Jbb and that always pisses me off.

[jbone]

I'd like to add canopy covers with the B.A.D.D. logo and a meeningful phrase to the list of things to spread the word. They are large and can be seen far away. It won't be cheep, but probably one of the most visible ways to spread the word. I would buy 2.
J

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Fair enough. I understand the guy is upset but it would go a long way if he could tone things down and perhaps back off on the fight requests.
We are in agreement on this one

[Moneypitt]

Until something is done to stop stupid "sober" people on the same waterways, stopping "impared" people won't really make a difference. Case in point, 43% of deaths on the highways are contributed to impared drivers....so, 57% are due to SOBER drivers?????.........Almost the same can be said about water deaths...........WTF are we gonna due about SOBER people that KILL other people????????????......Highway or waterway, we're barking up the wrong tree..........SOBER people still kill more than DRUNKS................MP

[HM]

What is sad is people using certain things of shock value, and emotional distress to try and further their own ideals onto others.
I stand behind everything I said, and I genuinely hope this deal never comes to light. I'll play whatever part I can in crushing it, if I feel it's a danger to the lifestyle of boating as a whole.
An angry mob on a witch hunt can only result in disaster.. Too much emotion, no common sense, no level head = disasterous results, for everyone in the end.
The power of this board is amazing.. I've seen it first hand. I'd hate to see it abused, and the people talking right now have no regard for the consequences of their actions. That's dangerous as shit no matter how you slice it.
Something that starts as a good idea, can quickly turn ugly (seen that 1st hand as well), and with dissention amongst the ranks, it's just more cracks in the dam that the greenies, and other activist groups can get their roots into to expand upon.
RD
I am with you 1000% especially on the stuff highlighted in red. Feel good fanatics caught in the emotion of an incident are well intended but completely miss their mark and ultimately cause more harm than good.
If people truly want to reduce death of innocent people, in numbers that make wars pale in comparison....ban the auto. Hundreds and thousands of lives will be saved every year...it would be worth it if it only save one life right? Oh but wait...this would actually affect everyone's life and doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening. Very few people are willing to stand up in the face of irrationality of Feel Good legislating because you appear mean and unsympathizing.
BTW - I am glad to see the real RD finally stand up and offer his junk for all to kick. :D

[shrek]

This is truely unbelieveable........another thread that I thought could not go wrong.
You should all be ashamed........
I sound like my grandma, but thats the best way to express it.
Shrek

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I am with you 1000% especially on the stuff highlighted in red. Feel good fanatics caught in the emotion of an incident are well intended but completely miss their mark and ultimately cause more harm than good.
If people truly want to reduce death of innocent people, in numbers that make wars pale in comparison....ban the auto. Hundreds and thousands of lives will be saved every year...it would be worth it if it only save one life right? Oh but wait...this would actually affect everyone's life and doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of ever happening. Very few people are willing to stand up in the face of irrationality of Feel Good legislating because you appear mean and unsympathizing.
BTW - I am glad to see the real RD finally stand up and offer his junk for all to kick. :D
Sir,
This isn't about feel good fanatics. It appears to be about a group of people who want to bring the dangers of illegally OUI more out in the open. No new laws are needed, just better enforcement of current ones. I will happily display B.A.D.D on my boat, as a reminder to others.
As I recall, Riverdave and Jet Boat Brian, were involved in organizing members of HB, , back in 2002. "In Memory of our Brothers Lost" This was a cause that the these men believed in, as I did. I sported the in memory of the HTM tragedy stickers for years.
Little things such as shirts and stickers act as reminders. If being involved in this movement saves 1 life, it will be considered a success.
Shirts and stickers are not a threat to the sport of performance boating.
Until something is done to stop stupid "sober" people on the same waterways, stopping "impared" people won't really make a difference. Case in point, 43% of deaths on the highways are contributed to impared drivers....so, 57% are due to SOBER drivers?????.........Almost the same can be said about water deaths...........WTF are we gonna due about SOBER people that KILL other people????????????......Highway or waterway, we're barking up the wrong tree..........SOBER people still kill more than DRUNKS................MP
MP,
If you stop the 43% who are killed by those who are impaired you have reduced a significant number of highway deaths. Your logics is senseless

[uLtRADeNniS]

How about all the people that are anti BADD, stop posting in this thread. Keep your opinions to yourselves and stop trying to put this Idea down. Whether it is is successful or not, at least we are willing to try unlike yourselves.
I cried as I saw this young beautiful girl die right in front of my eyes, something I will never forget. I have lost hours of sleep already. If there is something I can do to prevent my eyes or someone else's from seeing that I will. In fact I was shocked that very few people in Topac that day knew how to perform CPR. I will be enrolling in a class to get certified this week. Just one more thing I can do to help keep lives around me safe on the water. I was going to see if I can get a group rate for the CPRprogram and maybe everyone who would like to participate in BADD could do it as well.
To everyone who is pro BADD, you guys are awesome! If there is anything I can do to help...Phone calls, research, $, etc.. Please let me know.

[HM]

How about all the people that are anti BADD, stop posting in this thread. Keep your opinions to yourselves and stop trying to put this Idea down. Whether it is is successful or not, at least we are willing to try unlike yourselves.
I cried as I saw this young beautiful girl die right in front of my eyes, something I will never forget. I have lost hours of sleep already. If there is something I can do to prevent my eyes or someone else's from seeing that I will. In fact I was shocked that very few people in Topac that day knew how to perform CPR. I will be enrolling in a class to get certified this week. Just one more thing I can do to help keep lives around me safe on the water. I was going to see if I can get a group rate for the CPRprogram and maybe everyone who would like to participate in BADD could do it as well.
To everyone who is pro BADD, you guys are awesome! If there is anything I can do to help...Phone calls, research, $, etc.. Please let me know.
News Flash....public forum(actually it is private, but they allow ALL views to be expressed...not just the ones that go along with the thread starter). You want to be able to post your opinion, be prepared for counter opinions...if you don't like them...don't read them. I happen to think feel good fanatics are a major part of what is killing this country...because they only want you to look at their intention...never the results, especially when they do the exact opposite.
BTW - why did you pour out your drinks? Especially since they were non-alcoholic? What did that have to do with anything? I think RD nailed another hypocrite with an ego.

[uLtRADeNniS]

You cant leave a bar or restaurant with a glass. Thats why I left the drink smart ass. I also ordered food that I left without as well. He didnt catch me in anything. I had one Iced tea, and order Margaritas for my passengers. And RD would have no room to talk after saying hes had drinks while boating.
You really need to grow up. No one cares about your opinion... I sure dont. Nothing you say will cause me, or the rest of this group trying to make a difference to give up.
I will no longer respond to you in this thread.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

How about all the people that are anti BADD, stop posting in this thread. Keep your opinions to yourselves and stop trying to put this Idea down. Whether it is is successful or not, at least we are willing to try unlike yourselves.
I cried as I saw this young beautiful girl die right in front of my eyes, something I will never forget. I have lost hours of sleep already. If there is something I can do to prevent my eyes or someone else's from seeing that I will. In fact I was shocked that very few people in Topac that day knew how to perform CPR. I will be enrolling in a class to get certified this week. Just one more thing I can do to help keep lives around me safe on the water. I was going to see if I can get a group rate for the CPRprogram and maybe everyone who would like to participate in BADD could do it as well.
To everyone who is pro BADD, you guys are awesome! If there is anything I can do to help...Phone calls, research, $, etc.. Please let me know.
I agree with you Dennis

[Tom Brown]

I agree with you Dennis
I disagree with your agreement with Dennis.

[HM]

You cant leave a bar or restaurant with a glass. Thats why I left the drink smart ass. I also ordered food that I left without as well. He didnt catch me in anything. I had one Iced tea, and order Margaritas for my passengers. And RD would have no room to talk after saying hes had drinks while boating.
You really need to grow up. No one cares about your opinion... I sure dont. Nothing you say will cause me, or the rest of this group trying to make a difference to give up.
I will no longer respond to you in this thread.
You said "poured out" not left. Are you changing your story?

[uLtRADeNniS]

I agree with you Dennis
Thanks

[thatguy]

How about all the people that are anti BADD, stop posting in this thread. Keep your opinions to yourselves and stop trying to put this Idea down. Whether it is is successful or not, at least we are willing to try unlike yourselves.
I cried as I saw this young beautiful girl die right in front of my eyes, something I will never forget. I have lost hours of sleep already. If there is something I can do to prevent my eyes or someone else's from seeing that I will. In fact I was shocked that very few people in Topac that day knew how to perform CPR. I will be enrolling in a class to get certified this week. Just one more thing I can do to help keep lives around me safe on the water. I was going to see if I can get a group rate for the CPRprogram and maybe everyone who would like to participate in BADD could do it as well.
To everyone who is pro BADD, you guys are awesome! If there is anything I can do to help...Phone calls, research, $, etc.. Please let me know.
This is something that I feel all drivers, boaters and people from all walks of life should have. I originally had my training because of work 17 years ago. I kept it current to have more job oportunities. However, one night driving home near Lodi, on Woodbridge road off of 99, suddenly there was a 4x4 cardboard shipping box in my lane. I swerved around it, barely maintaining control. I looked in my mirror to see a Suzuki Samuri swerve and start rolling off the road and into the grapes. It must have flipped at least 4 times.
I turned around and raced back to find the vehicle on its wheels, steaming and crushed. As I called 911 I was looking inside and did not see anybody. Then I saw her. A 17 year old girl. She was jammed under the dash on the passenger side. I stayed on the phone and tried to get vitals as another vehicle drove up. This young man in his 20's was an EMT going home with his girlfriend. Can you believe it?
He knew exactly what to do. Like watching an angel at that moment. He carefully got her out and went to work. After a very fast evaluation of her He took the phone and reported to the operator who was in contact with the responding EMT's. Because of my training I was able to perform rescue breathing, albiet very clumsily. He took over again and almost immidiatley the girl began coming too. I will never forget those wails and screams.
Her lower right leg was near amputated, but did not seem to be bleeding much. Her arms had multiple fractures and she seemed to be cut everywhere.
The EMT's arrived and because of this "kid's" training and reporting they new exactly what they facing and were perfectly prepared. I don't know if He saved her life for a fact, but in my eyes he did just that. After she was taken away I told him as much. He said "I do that ALL DAY LONG, this was not a bad wreck at all". Wow, these guys are your angels without a doubt.
Point is you never know what is going to happen or where. YOU can make a difference if you know what to do. Since that night I have expanded my traing from First Aid and CPR to include First Responder training. Hopefully I will never need it.

[uLtRADeNniS]

This is something that I feel all drivers, boaters and people from all walks of life should have. I originally had my training because of work 17 years ago. I kept it current to have more job oportunities. However, one night driving home near Lodi, on Woodbridge road off of 99, suddenly there was a 4x4 cardboard shipping box in my lane. I swerved around it, barely maintaining control. I looked in my mirror to see a Suzuki Samuri swerve and start rolling off the road and into the grapes. It must have flipped at least 4 times.
I turned around and raced back to find the vehicle on its wheels, steaming and crushed. As I called 911 I was looking inside and did not see anybody. Then I saw her. A 17 year old girl. She was jammed under the dash on the passenger side. I stayed on the phone and tried to get vitals as another vehicle drove up. This young man in his 20's was an EMT going home with his girlfriend. Can you believe it?
He knew exactly what to do. Like watching an angel at that moment. He carefully got her out and went to work. After a very fast evaluation of her He took the phone and reported to the operator who was in contact with the responding EMT's. Because of my training I was able to perform rescue breathing, albiet very clumsily. He took over again and almost immidiatley the girl began coming too. I will never forget those wails and screams.
Her lower right leg was near amputated, but did not seem to be bleeding much. Her arms had multiple fractures and she seemed to be cut everywhere.
The EMT's arrived and because of this "kid's" training and reporting they new exactly what they facing and were perfectly prepared. I don't know if He saved her life for a fact, but in my eyes he did just that. After she was taken away I told him as much. He said "I do that ALL DAY LONG, this was not a bad wreck at all". Wow, these guys are your angels without a doubt.
Point is you never know what is going to happen or where. YOU can make a difference if you know what to do. Since that night I have expanded my traing from First Aid and CPR to include First Responder training. Hopefully I will never need it.
Thats an amazing story. Thanks for sharing. I know it would only do our society better to have more people trained that can handle emergencies like that. Im really excited about taking the course. Hopefully I will never have to use it, but Its better so be safe than sorry. I care so much about the people around me in my life. And it would kill me to stand there at a time of crisis not knowing what to do because I never took the time to seek out the education.

[thatguy]

Thats an amazing story. Thanks for sharing. I know it would only do our society better to have more people trained that can handle emergencies like that. Im really excited about taking the course. Hopefully I will never have to use it, but Its better so be safe than sorry. I care so much about the people around me in my life. And it would kill me to stand there at a time of crisis not knowing what to do because I never took the time to seek out the education.
Thanks, when it happened it seemed unreal, like a movie or practice. I would point out that no one on that scene had consumed ANY alchohol, although the cops really tried to find some evidence of that. I found out the next day they saved her leg and that she had been at her boyfriends all day and was going home. I saw him at the accident sight picking up debris and he told me He had spent a couple hours the day before tightning all the bolts on her little factory rollbar. Smart Kid! I heard she made a full recovery from some high school kids I talked to a few months later.
Tommy

[Rexone]

This guy is a good choice. I've been CPR and FA trained due to observing in ski racing for the better part of 30 years now and have had several instructors over that period. This guy is the best. He does onsite training if you have a large enough group or you can jump in to a group he has somewhere else. He is Heart to Heart CPR & First Aid, Jack is his name 714-894-5620.
Regardless of which side of the fence you're on on the thread issue, this training is a good idea. You never know what's gonna happen out there, or in your backyard for that matter. CPR and FA training is a good thing. Accidents will happen regardless of whatever reduction efforts come to pass.
As far a BADD I think the intentions are commendable and if implemented properly can probably have a positive impact on reducing the number of alcohol related incidents. I also share concerns that if implemented improperly or somewhat unfocused might draw more unwanted attention from those who would like to impose more restrictions to boating. I share the view that reducing even the 43% number resulting from OUI's is a positive thing. But it still doesn't address the remaining 57% stupid factor. My personal feeling on that is that mandatory education could reduce (not eliminate) the number. Mandatory education and / or licensing has been discussed and proposed within government for some time now and not come to fruition. I think it eventually will and hopefully in a form that will not bring other unwanted and unnecessary restrictions along with it. Much of the marine industry is against any type of licensing. The objections I've heard mostly relate to possible reduced sales due to excessive red tape and hoops to jump through that new buyers would be subjected to. I think being against it just for the above reason is somewhat shortsighted when considering people may be turned off by ongoing stupidity and accidents within the boating community. I'm on the fence on licensing and feel there are pros and cons to it. Administering it too could turn into a nightmare with the DMV involved. Conversely how do you effectively do mandatory education without some form of license to certify a person had the education? Some form of beaurocracy becomes involved I think regardless of the exact method. Perhaps it should be administered at the boat dealer level. That would catch only some people that buy boats through dealers or manufacturers. Doesn't touch the used boat buyer or the existing boater who's out there doing things wrong.
These are just my thoughts, I have no answers on what the best way to reduce accidents might be. As has been mentioned by Boatcop and others, deaths are actually way down from where they used to be in years past overall in spite of increased numbers of boaters. Although sometimes it doesn't seem that way. I think that might be due to the exposure the deaths that do occur now get from internet forums such as this. And in saying that I'm not suggesting that the existing number doesn't need to be reduced. It certainly does need to be reduced. Personally with all the dumb stuff I witness people do these days I'm amazed the accident and death rate isn't higher than it is.
Something else to think about since Havasu has been used as an example for the most part. Havasu seems to continue to become a more popular boating destination, particularly with the party hardy crowd. Not that that is a bad thing in and of itself. And with gang bangers, which is a problem in and of itself. But what happens if you add another 10% or another 25% of boat traffic to an already congested weekend scenario (weekends being the problem periods)? At what point does the accident rate shoot skyward just due to sheer numbers on Havasu and other crowded venues? How do you address that if at all? Should boat size be limited in the narrow river areas vs. lakes (like Parker, the gorge, etc)? Should speed be limited anywhere? I've always felt personally that if a boat can't turn around (easily maneuver) in any given waterway without having to come off plane to do so it doesn't belong on that waterway do to it's size. My view hasn't proven to be all that popular with others.
Just things to ponder, consider, discuss, and think about in the ultimate effort to reduce accidents and the resulting deaths and injuries that occur.

[Jbb]

When I was younger, I volunteered with a group that organized events for mentally disabled youth. I developed a lot of respect for that group of people, both the volunteers and the disabled.
One of the things I bring with me from that experience is a hessitancy to really unload on someone who shows the signs of a disability. These individuals were doing the best they possibly could and I have to respect that.
This is why I'm treating you with some respect, uLtRADeNniS. Between your anger and stupidity, I believe you are truely disabled. I'm sorry for that and wish you well.
:cool:
:jawdrop:

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

No one thinks of himself or herself as a fanatic. Doesn't mean there aren't any.

[THOR]

You really need to grow up. No one cares about your opinion... I sure dont. Nothing you say will cause me, or the rest of this group trying to make a difference to give up.
What is the definition of ignorant again?
Whoops, sorry, I will keep my opinion out of here. Only facts.

[ACEB36TC]

As A Pilot, Which Is A Privilige I Protect At All Costs, I Apply The 12 Hour "bottle To Throttle " Rule When I Go To The Lake. These Massive Torpedoes We Drive Can Create Carnage At Only A Few Miles An Hour. I Like My Life And Would Never Fly After Even Only One Beer. I For One Would Worry About The Father Of A Dead Child Well Before I Would Worry About Leo`s Response To Drinking And Boating.
Now Don`t Get Me Wrong. I Like To Drink And Am Quite Good At It. On The Dock, At The House, Or Even On The Shore. I Am Just Dumb Enough To Know When Not To Drink.

[INSman]

Until something is done to stop stupid "sober" people on the same waterways, stopping "impared" people won't really make a difference. Case in point, 43% of deaths on the highways are contributed to impared drivers....so, 57% are due to SOBER drivers?????.........Almost the same can be said about water deaths...........WTF are we gonna due about SOBER people that KILL other people????????????......Highway or waterway, we're barking up the wrong tree..........SOBER people still kill more than DRUNKS................MP
There are those that we see oh too often and DAILY on our streets and highways that can't drive period, and they are stone cold sober and we can't change that and am baffled on how these people even passed their driving test to begin with. The one thing we can change is making the decision to get behind the wheel of your car, plane or boat in this case while impaired by alcohol and risking your own life, the lives of your family and friends that may be with you and risking the lives of others that you may come in contact with.
If this campaign/cause saves just (1) life, it would all be worth it. I could not imagine having to continue on in life knowing that I contributed to killing one of my own family members, personal friend or a complete and total stranger for that matter.

[Tom Brown]

Thanks for quoting that, INSman. I hadn't read Moneypitt's original post.
That is perhaps the most ignorant post I've ever read. I'm still laughing about it. :D :D :D
I think I'll swing by Moneypitt's house, kick his door in, and take all his shit. I'll do it while he's watching. If he says anything, I'll tell him that tweakers would have done it to him eventually, anyway so a non-tweaker taking his stuff really won't make a difference.
I hope he wasn't sober when he made that post.

[thatguy]

Until something is done to stop stupid "sober" people on the same waterways, stopping "impared" people won't really make a difference. Case in point, 43% of deaths on the highways are contributed to impared drivers....so, 57% are due to SOBER drivers?????.........Almost the same can be said about water deaths...........WTF are we gonna due about SOBER people that KILL other people????????????......Highway or waterway, we're barking up the wrong tree..........SOBER people still kill more than DRUNKS................MP
This is easy to settle guys. Put 100 boats w/ sober people on the water for 12 hours. Record the results. Put 100 boats on the water w/ drunk people record the results. Any wagers?
Tommy

[squirt'nmyload]

The BUI on that 100% enforcement lake probably went down significantly when they started that enforcement program.
hey tom, that happened at lake pleasant 1 time to my knowledge. i was there and went through it (twice) and was never stopped. same with the boat in front of us. also they were only checking people that launched at the 10 lane launch ramp. there are 3 other ramps at the lake and numerous places to launch from shore....and i don't think the enforcement had any effect on reducing the amount of people thinking twice before drinking and boating :)

[Tom Brown]

hey tom, that happened at lake pleasant 1 time to my knowledge. i was there and went through it (twice) and was never stopped. same with the boat in front of us. also they were only checking people that launched at the 10 lane launch ramp. there are 3 other ramps at the lake and numerous places to launch from shore....and i don't think the enforcement had any effect on reducing the amount of people thinking twice before drinking and boating :)
Thank you for this information. I thought they did it on all of the busy weekends on all access points.
It's nice to know the lake is still somewhat RD friendly. :D

[squirt'nmyload]

Thank you for this information. I thought they did it on all of the busy weekends on all access points.
It's nice to know the lake is still somewhat RD friendly. :D
your welcome :)......lmao :D

[RiverDave]

This is easy to settle guys. Put 100 boats w/ sober people on the water for 12 hours. Record the results. Put 100 boats on the water w/ drunk people record the results. Any wagers?
Tommy
Put a 100 people with little or no experience in various boats for 12 hours.. Now put 100 people at a .08 - .10 in the same conditions that have owned boats there entire lives and you got yourself a bet.. ALL DAY LONG.
RD

[MKEELINE]

Put a 100 people with little or no experience in various boats for 12 hours.. Now put 100 people at a .08 - .10 in the same conditions that have owned boats there entire lives and you got yourself a bet.. ALL DAY LONG.
RD
The facts are that .08-.10 is over the legal limit. They could have all the experience in the world, they're still breaking the law. These are the facts, not just one guys opinion.

[RiverDave]

The facts are that .08-.10 is over the legal limit. They could have all the experience in the world, they're still breaking the law. These are the facts, not just one guys opinion.
I agree MKEELINE, but read what I wrote... He spoke of a hypothetical situation and a wager.. In a hypothetical world, I like my odds in a "what is safer" bet..
RD

[riverbound]

I agree MKEELINE, but read what I wrote... He spoke of a hypothetical situation and a wager.. In a hypothetical world, I like my odds in a "what is safer" bet..
RD
Dave,
In all reality trying to reason with these guys would be a complete waste of energy and time. Kinda like trying to reason with a religious fanatic. They dont have the ability to reason and comprehend. These guys are reading what you are writing and then holding onto 1or2 words instead of reading the entire point and actually using that thing on top of their shoulders for more than a hat holder:rolleyes:
Im still fond of the "tough guys" like that douche that called you out in the other thread.

[RiverDave]

Dave,
In all reality trying to reason with these guys would be a complete waste of energy and time. Kinda like trying to reason with a religious fanatic. They dont have the ability to reason and comprehend. These guys are reading what you are writing and then holding onto 1or2 words a=instead of reading the entire point :rolleyes: and actually using that thing on top of their shoulders for more than a hat holder:rolleyes:
Im still fond of the "tough guys" like that douche that called you out in the other thread.
I love keyboard cowboys.. I just post your address, and tell em to come on over anytime their feeling lucky!! :mad:
RD

[riverbound]

I love keyboard cowboys.. I just post your address, and tell em to come on over anytime their feeling lucky!! :mad:
RD
I will post mine with a "B" at the end of it. :D

[thatguy]

Dave,
In all reality trying to reason with these guys would be a complete waste of energy and time. Kinda like trying to reason with a religious fanatic. They dont have the ability to reason and comprehend. These guys are reading what you are writing and then holding onto 1or2 words a=instead of reading the entire point :rolleyes: and actually using that thing on top of their shoulders for more than a hat holder:rolleyes:
Im still fond of the "tough guys" like that douche that called you out in the other thread.
Actually I think Riverdave has a valid point. I don't think I would cover that bet. Dave is probably right!
Tommy
PS- i ain't been to church since 2nd grade, so I don't think I can be compared to a religious fanatic.:D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Put a 100 people with little or no experience in various boats for 12 hours.. Now put 100 people at a .08 - .10 in the same conditions that have owned boats there entire lives and you got yourself a bet.. ALL DAY LONG.
RD
And now put 100 people at .00 that have owned boats their entire lives in the same conditions and you really have a winner.
BTW Riverbound, Dave has made his position about drinking an driving a boat very clear in the past. It's not about selective reading.

[RiverDave]

And now put 100 people at .00 that have owned boats their entire lives in the same conditions and you really have a winner.
zealot.. Talk to Brown big guy... I'm off duty.
RD

[ULTRA26 # 1]

zealot.. Talk to Brown big guy... I'm off duty.
RD
zeolot :) :confused:

[djunkie]

I will post mine with a "B" at the end of it. :D
I'm sure Gordo wouldn't mind. I actually feel sorry for the guy that would be knocking on his door. :D :D

[Charley]

Until something is done to stop stupid "sober" people on the same waterways, stopping "impared" people won't really make a difference. Case in point, 43% of deaths on the highways are contributed to impared drivers....so, 57% are due to SOBER drivers?????.........Almost the same can be said about water deaths...........WTF are we gonna due about SOBER people that KILL other people????????????......Highway or waterway, we're barking up the wrong tree..........SOBER people still kill more than DRUNKS................MP
Your numbers disturb me, and what's sadder is that it appears that you are insinuating something about how more accidents are non alcohol related than are... as if this 57/43 number defines your point that we need to be hunting stupidity here. I will not disagree that there is more to look at than booze, but please don't deny Booze is the biggest single issue causing accidents at 43%. We will all agree that accidents do happen, and that there is no way to completely halt that fact. What we can due is make a conscious effort to curb the number of accidents no matter what the cause. Bottom line is that some of those accidents are due to stupidity and some due to Booze.... the very emotional point I think is hard for some people to grasp, is that drinking the booze is a choice, stupidity is unfortunately is not. Even the best of drivers are dramatically more prone to cause an accident while under the influence of alcohol. So... if you think that a very talented and capable 30 year old man, who has had 6 beers, and is still a better driver than a 75 year old sober man justifies any real point that drinking is ok then you are mistaken.
I will agree with you 100% that the old guy needs to be off the road too, Driving tests need to be tougher and in ENGLISH ONLY as well. In my humble opinion driving a boat or a jet-ski should be an earned privilege for people over 18, and not a right for whoever can afford the payment and their children or buddies who happen to be in their campground that weekend. I am completely sick and tired of being cut off by 10year old to 65 year old clueless jet-skiers in my boat ... it is beyond annoying, but consider this.... If a clueless jet-skier with his or her 10 year old son or daughter hits a drunk boater, and the child died we all know who is screwed in that scenario...pretty much everyone to different degrees...now if the boater could have avoided the accident if he had been sober, that is when your point falls short. We have to start somewhere people... I made a choice not to drink on the water at the beginning of last year... I will have 1-3 Odouls, but that is my concession to the 2-6 beers I used to drink in the past. We are all human, people that like to drink will have a hard time giving it up, but please try to make a responsible choice for yourself, your family and maybe other families as well.

[MKEELINE]

Dave,
In all reality trying to reason with these guys would be a complete waste of energy and time. Kinda like trying to reason with a religious fanatic. They dont have the ability to reason and comprehend. These guys are reading what you are writing and then holding onto 1or2 words instead of reading the entire point and actually using that thing on top of their shoulders for more than a hat holder:rolleyes:
Im still fond of the "tough guys" like that douche that called you out in the other thread.
I will assume your refering to me here.
I guess I should have used better "reasoning"when trying to make a point about RD's hypothetical world of inebreated boaters.
And now we are religious fanatics without the ability to reason or comprehend. You are humerous.
You want to talk about religious fanatics? I've never seen a bigger bunch of blind followers than you sheep that congregate at the church of RiverDave.
Don't get me wrong, I tend to agree with alot of what RD and his followers post. But I'm not drinking this punch.
Now, I'm fairly sure your not refering to me with "tough guy" and "douche" comments. Although I love how RD trys to position you as "tough guy" by saying he'll post your address and to head that way when anyone is feeling "lucky". That was really cute.

[riverbound]

I will assume your refering to me here.
I guess I should have used better "reasoning"when trying to make a point about RD's hypothetical world of inebreated boaters.
And now we are religious fanatics without the ability to reason or comprehend. You are humerous.
You want to talk about religious fanatics? I've never seen a bigger bunch of blind followers than you sheep that congregate at the church of RiverDave.
Don't get me wrong, I tend to agree with alot of what RD and his followers post. But I'm not drinking this punch.
Now, I'm fairly sure your not refering to me with "tough guy" and "douche" comments. Although I love how RD trys to position you as "tough guy" by saying he'll post your address and to head that way when anyone is feeling "lucky". That was really cute.
Again your reading comprehension amazes me. but then again, if everyone here actually read and comprehened waht was being written, this place would be no fun. ;) Keep twisting words, Im bored :D

[riverbound]

I'm sure Gordo wouldn't mind. I actually feel sorry for the guy that would be knocking on his door. :D :D
I pity the foo :D

[Tom Brown]

And now put 100 people at .00 ...
.00 is pretty hardline. I never thought I'd say this but there should be some scientific data and reason behind any reduction to civil rights. It shouldn't just be the whimsical wishes of someone who chooses not to drink... or someone that drinks but doesn't realize their own hypocrisy.

[hkunz]

Waaa Waaa Waaa.
Physics don't care if you drive a $500,000 super duper ultra extreme catamaran deck boat that three magazines reviewed with five blown 800 cubic inch engines, or a 4.3 liter powered upside down bathtub that tops out at 35 MPH. If you have alcohol in your bloodstream, you have some amount of impairment, above and beyond your age, experience, eyesight, concerns about your job/wife/kids/mistress/boobjob, and all the other things we go to the river to leave behind.
None of this is personal. If you think it is, think again. It is all about physics and biology. Those sciences don't care if you make your money as a firefighter, policeman, male prostitiute, Vegas hooker, Realtor, or grunt for the Marine Corps. They also don't care if you drive a Tahoe or Camry, boat a gorgeous DCB or HTM, or a 15 year old Mariah or pontoon.
I like to go fast. I like my family (most days). Therefore, I don't drink (alcohol) when I take the boat out. My worthless son-in-law (did I say that?) drinks starting at 8 AM, but he never gets to drive the boat.
Make your choice. Live with it. I can't stop you from drinking and boating. If you hurt me or mine, and you were drinking and boating, expect no quarter. I'd love to own everything you, your spouse, and your forebearers have worked so hard for, as well as your childrens' and grandchildrens' inheritance, and so would many others. If you can't figure it out, that's just too bad for you, and for your victims.
Soapbox off. Where do I get the "BADD" products?

[Tom Brown]

Where do I get the "BADD" products?
TheCarDudes should take care of you.
While you're here, how about a donation? The current mark to beat is $1000. How about stepping up with $1500 for this excellent cause.

[blown65]

Originally Posted by Moneypitt View Post
Until something is done to stop stupid "sober" people on the same waterways, stopping "impared" people won't really make a difference. Case in point, 43% of deaths on the highways are contributed to impared drivers....so, 57% are due to SOBER drivers?????.........Almost the same can be said about water deaths...........WTF are we gonna due about SOBER people that KILL other people????????????......Highway or waterway, we're barking up the wrong tree..........SOBER people still kill more than DRUNKS................MP
odds are that a higher percentage of drunks will cause an accident vs a sober person. How many drunks vs sober ppl are on the highway, of course the numbers will be close. Millions of sober ppl vs a thousand or whatever drunks. Of course those percentages would be like that.

[fuzz]

;) Put a 100 people with little or no experience in various boats for 12 hours.. Now put 100 people at a .08 - .10 in the same conditions that have owned boats there entire lives and you got yourself a bet.. ALL DAY LONG.
RD
Ok first post here folks although I have been reading this forum for years. I do not own a "hot boat" but I have had some great times at the river with a boat maybe more closely described as a "family bayliner." I really and admire the hot boats I see out there and I have found in most cases the people who own and drive them are polite and generally follow all the safety rules. There are,of course, exceptions. I am relatively new to boating, just the last 10 years (still in my first boat, hey its almost paid for), and some experience from when I was a kid in my dads boat in the saltwater off the east coast.
About 30 years ago I was at Lake Nacimiento in my girlfriends grandpas ski boat. I had been drinking beer. I don't remember how much, but I was buzzing a bit. I almost chopped up my girlfriends sister with the prop cuz she was swimming right next to the outdrive when I started the boat when we were skiing. The boat never made it into gear or anything but it scared the crap out of me. I made a promise to myself never to drive a boat and drink again.
I'm no tea drinker either, I like beer, I like whiskey too.
Nowadays when I launch I have two beers in my cooler. One for when I am wiping the boat down when its back on the trailer and one for when I get to wherever I am staying. Those are just about the best tasting beers you can have.
I have alot of expertise in evaluating people under the influence of alcohol and drugs. Twenty years of it. I know what I am talking about.
Fact #1 Alcohol impaires you. Limits set by the law are those that have been proven to impair drivers to an unacceptable level.
Fact#2 Even though you have been walking and balancing your whole life, you can not do this as well when you have been drinking. Your motor reflexes as well as your decision making ability are impaired with alcohol, period.
Now with this in mind, I give you this scenario. You are motoring up by Topoc in your godzillian dollar boat with your family. You know that besides the usual navigation hazards of sandbars, rocks, floating debris, weather, or whatever, there are new boaters, drunk boaters, jet skis, kids in tubes, all over the place, in front of you, behind you, besides you.
Now explain to me why in God's name wouldn't you want to be on the very top of your game? To say that you can drive your boat better at a .10 BAC than most brand new boaters sober might be true! But thats really not saying alot, you know? Why would you want to diminish your ability down to that level while jeapordizing the safety of your family or friends??
The point is you will not be able to drive your boat as well as you could sober. You just can't. This could very well be the factor that ultimately causes you to either avoid a collision or become involved in one. Maybe the difference between life and death.
Your call buddy. Make the right one. Please. ;)

[Boatcop]

Sorry, Fuzz.
It's against the rules for a person's first post to make any sense. And with the sense that that post made, expect to be banned from, not only Hot Boat, but from every boating forum on the internet.
Good Words, Dude. Welcome aboard.

[djunkie]

Again your reading comprehension amazes me. but then again, if everyone here actually read and comprehened waht was being written, this place would be no fun. ;) Keep twisting words, Im bored :D
Huh???? I don't get it. :confused: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :D

[thatguy]

Waaa Waaa Waaa.
Make your choice. Live with it. I can't stop you from drinking and boating. If you hurt me or mine, and you were drinking and boating, expect no quarter. I'd love to own everything you, your spouse, and your forebearers have worked so hard for, as well as your childrens' and grandchildrens' inheritance, and so would many others. If you can't figure it out, that's just too bad for you, and for your victims.
Soapbox off. Where do I get the "BADD" products?
There you have it. Right or wrong, no matter the cause, If you are over legal limit you are done.
The argument can be made using Moneypits figures. If you agree that stupidity is the leading factor in accidents, then you will agree that you have a better chance being hit or whatever by an idiot of some sort. That means that, using MP's figures, chances are better than not that he is sober, according to his statistics.
That means that, if YOU are drinking, YOU are done and hung.
Sad, but true. Some idiot who can't drive not only phucked up your stuff, he now will own it, while you go to jail.
I am not preaching to you guys, I like throwing down as much as anybody, more than most!;)
But opening yourself up to kind of liability has to be considered.
Tommy

[ULTRA26 # 1]

.00 is pretty hardline. I never thought I'd say this but there should be some scientific data and reason behind any reduction to civil rights. It shouldn't just be the whimsical wishes of someone who chooses not to drink... or someone that drinks but doesn't realize their own hypocrisy.
Tom,
I agree completely. But isn't there scientific data on this issue?

[fuzz]

Thanks Boat Cop!

[hkunz]

[QUOTE][But isn't there scientific data on this issue?/QUOTE]
"Scientific data" does not apply. It has come down to the legal system. ANY amount of alcohol, or other "inebriants" in your bloodstream make it your fault, regardless of how incompetent and/or stupid the other guy was.

[Charley]

Put a 100 people with little or no experience in various boats for 12 hours.. Now put 100 people at a .08 - .10 in the same conditions that have owned boats there entire lives and you got yourself a bet.. ALL DAY LONG.
RD
RD you are missing the point.. As a father, I want for these two guys to have the benefit of all that Experience UNIMPAIRED .... dodging the newbies definitely sucks, but to take the good drivers that are out there and make them any less makes it worse.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/jens_digital_121.jpg
I am not stating I am perfect, and it wasn't an easy decision to give up my beer on the water, but my concession was odouls and I drink after I'm back at the house now and the boat is put away.

[Old Texan]

So if I quit drinking beer when I'm driving my boat, I won't have any empties to throw at Jet Skies that cut me off???? :confused:
On a serious note. It really doesn't make sense to jeopardize anyone's safety by indulging while you're behind the wheel. If you do, you're just playing against the odds and that's just too big of a gamble when you look at those 2 little fellas on the Jeep in Charley's driveway.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

"Scientific data" does not apply. It has come down to the legal system. ANY amount of alcohol, or other "inebriants" in your bloodstream make it your fault, regardless of how incompetent and/or stupid the other guy was.
If a driver is alcohol impaired he/she doesn't have the same reaction time to deal with the incompetent or stupid.
The legal system is clear. The law don't consider you impaired at .00 to .05From .05 to .08 impaired is determined by one's actions. .08 and above, you are legally intoxicated.
Drinking and driving is a choice, stupidity is not. All that many of us are asking is that EVERYONE make the proper choice and not drive while legally impaired. It's not that difficult.

[Magic34]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/jens_digital_121.jpg
.
Charley,
That is a cute picture!!! I cant believe you fit in that little jeep with your son.
:D :D :D

[Charley]

Charley,
That is a cute picture!!! I cant believe you fit in that little jeep with your son.
:D :D :D
LMAO.... bastard!:D

[ChumpChange]

Charley,
That is a cute picture!!! I cant believe you fit in that little jeep with your son.
:D :D :D
That was funny. I am really laughing out loud at that. :D

[USCFAN]

Charley,
That is a cute picture!!! I cant believe you fit in that little jeep with your son.
:D :D :D
That was funny.:D

[MKEELINE]

Huh???? I don't get it. :confused: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :D
No, you probably don't get it.:confused: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :D

[djunkie]

No, you probably don't get it.:confused: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :D
I know you are but what am I? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Sleek-Jet]

TheCarDudes should take care of you.
While you're here, how about a donation? The current mark to beat is $1000. How about stepping up with $1500 for this excellent cause.
$1500 will buy a lot of T-shirts... :rolleyes:

[MKEELINE]

RD you are missing the point.. As a father, I want for these two guys to have the benefit of all that Experience UNIMPAIRED .... dodging the newbies definitely sucks, but to take the good drivers that are out there and make them any less makes it worse.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/jens_digital_121.jpg
I am not stating I am perfect, and it wasn't an easy decision to give up my beer on the water, but my concession was odouls and I drink after I'm back at the house now and the boat is put away.
If your not agreeing with RD, YOU must be an unreasonable lemming that can't comprehend anything.
Charley, as you stated none of us are perfect, but you try to set a good example for your kids(cute kids by the way) and keep them as safe as you can. That means you make sacrifices, but staying sober while on the water is a small sacrifice at best.

[MKEELINE]

I know you are but what am I? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
First, second, third, bald headed turd?

[riverbound]

If your not agreeing with RD, YOU must be an unreasonable lemming that can't comprehend anything.
Charley, as you stated none of us are perfect, but you try to set a good example for your kids(cute kids by the way) and keep them as safe as you can. That means you make sacrifices, but staying sober while on the water is a small sacrifice at best.
So Im guessing that you lemmings (;)) have completely missed the posts that have repeatedly stated that the group we hang out with (which includes RD) does always have a DD:rolleyes: The point he continues to try and amke is the fact that, you guys are continuously trying to go after something that will neve change. and it will ultimately result in more and more legislation being thrown our way.

[Mrs. Bordsmnj]

So Im guessing that you lemmings (;)) have completely missed the posts that have repeatedly stated that the group we hang out with (which includes RD) does always have a DD:rolleyes: The point he continues to try and amke is the fact that, you guys are continuously trying to go after something that will neve change. and it will ultimately result in more and more legislation being thrown our way.
What is a lemmings? I think I am being grouped as one of these lemmings and I do not know what that means. If it means a bunch of good looking, responsible, fun loving adults,well then yes, we are lemmings. LOL ;)

[djunkie]

So Im guessing that you lemmings (;)) have completely missed the posts that have repeatedly stated that the group we hang out with (which includes RD) does always have a DD:rolleyes: The point he continues to try and amke is the fact that, you guys are continuously trying to go after something that will neve change. and it will ultimately result in more and more legislation being thrown our way.
"Oh no you didn't!!!":jawdrop: :idea: :D

[MKEELINE]

So Im guessing that you lemmings (;)) have completely missed the posts that have repeatedly stated that the group we hang out with (which includes RD) does always have a DD:rolleyes: The point he continues to try and amke is the fact that, you guys are continuously trying to go after something that will neve change. and it will ultimately result in more and more legislation being thrown our way.
Now it's your reading comprehension that's amasing me. What am I trying to go after, what am I trying to change?
I'm sure you guys are smart about the whole deal, I have no reason to question that.
I've only pointed out facts, not judgements as far as drinking and boating goes. Honestly, I think we're only arguing for arguments sake.
Stay safe.

[WYRD]

Until something is done to stop stupid "sober" people on the same waterways, stopping "impared" people won't really make a difference. Case in point, 43% of deaths on the highways are contributed to impared drivers....so, 57% are due to SOBER drivers?????.........Almost the same can be said about water deaths...........WTF are we gonna due about SOBER people that KILL other people????????????......Highway or waterway, we're barking up the wrong tree..........SOBER people still kill more than DRUNKS................MP
I wasn't going to get in the middle of this but this post has me thinking, if your statistics are correct this is the exact reason you shouldn't drink while at the helm. We all know the number of inexperienced boaters on the water has increased greatly over the last few years and many of us have taken steps to avoid them. I am no saint when it comes to drinking on the water but it seems the older I get the less important it becomes. I completely understand the ground that RD stands on and to some extent agree with him but I think his argument only works on his own merit by stating he could get himself home on the water after a few drinks just fine, however the "wild card" is if something unexpected happens such as one of these "SOBER idiots" or a newbie on the water. If one of these wild cards causes him to have an accident, whether RD is at fault or not, the alcohol consumption will be blamed. As others have stated I have worked too hard and achieved too much to put at risk intentionally. The days of being on the water and tossing back a few are nearing the end for me, such is life.....
WYRD

[MKEELINE]

What is a lemmings? I think I am being grouped as one of these lemmings and I do not know what that means. If it means a bunch of good looking, responsible, fun loving adults,well then yes, we are lemmings. LOL ;)
Shit, is that what that means. And to think this whole time I was dening being one.

[riverbound]

Now it's your reading comprehension that's amasing me. What am I trying to go after, what am I trying to change?
I'm sure you guys are smart about the whole deal, I have no reason to question that.
I've only pointed out facts, not judgements as far as drinking and boating goes. Honestly, I think we're only arguing for arguments sake.
Stay safe.
Actually, I just finished watching Pee-wee's playhouse and the word of the day was lemming (ahhhhhhhhhhh) so I wanted to use it in a sentence before I forgot ;)

[moneypit]

My question is, what would BADD do that is already happening on its own with the enforcement? I mean, we already see a decline in deaths and casulties. What would BADD do? I like having a beer sometimes on the river. I dont get intoxicated and drive. People on my boat drink as well. I would just hate to see my right to have alcohol on my boat.
I think Dave has a legit argument.

[riverbound]

My question is, what would BADD do that is already happening on its own with the enforcement? I mean, we already see a decline in deaths and casulties. What would BADD do? I like having a beer sometimes on the river. I dont get intoxicated and drive. People on my boat drink as well. I would just hate to see my right to have alcohol on my boat.
I think Dave has a legit argument.
you bigot :mad:
:D

[Sleek-Jet]

My question is, what would BADD do that is already happening on its own with the enforcement? I mean, we already see a decline in deaths and casulties. What would BADD do? I like having a beer sometimes on the river. I dont get intoxicated and drive. People on my boat drink as well. I would just hate to see my right to have alcohol on my boat.
I think Dave has a legit argument.
BADD has t-shirts... :rolleyes:

[3queens]

just slow down in traffic, anticipate the squid in front of you to cut you short. and a lot can be avoided without out more beauacratic bs invloved in
our lives
and please dont get DRUNK and drive
:crossx: boobs in boats not beers
thats my input on the t's

[DeathFlightMedic]

Until something is done to stop stupid "sober" people on the same waterways, stopping "impared" people won't really make a difference. Case in point, 43% of deaths on the highways are contributed to impared drivers....so, 57% are due to SOBER drivers?????.........Almost the same can be said about water deaths...........WTF are we gonna due about SOBER people that KILL other people????????????......Highway or waterway, we're barking up the wrong tree..........SOBER people still kill more than DRUNKS................MP
This may be true, But drinking and driving/boating is a CHOICE, stupidity is just bad breeding.
But you are right, inexperience on the river has probably been the cause of it’s fair share of fatalities. Nothing is scarier then the guy who mortgaged his house to buy a 30’ boat just to keep up with the Jones’s, out on the lake for the first time full throttle, wondering where the break is!
My belief is Boating should be like Skiing, until you get the hang of it you stay in the Bunny Pool.

[bunny 166]

My belief is Boating should be like Skiing, until you get the hang of it you stay in the Bunny Pool.
Hey, leave me outta this... :D

[INSman]

Hey, leave me outta this... :D
Where you been, sent you a text last week and we hope all is well :confused:

[bunny 166]

Where you been, sent you a text last week and we hope all is well :confused:
Hey! I'm having probs with my texts...just call next time, ding-dong....:rolleyes: :D

[LHC30Victory]

Hey, leave me outta this... :D
I'd be VERY happy to stay in the Bunny Pool :idea: :rolleyes: :D

[91nordic29]

My proposal Tom, is more cops out on the water exercising COMMON SENSE, by that I mean they used to leave you alone if you weren't doing something stupid, and only pulled over those that appeared to be doing something wrong or reckless.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Somebody gets dangerously "cut off" by another boat and instead of going after the idiot, they stop the first boat for a "safety check":rolleyes:
As for the drinking and boating argument going on here, I think some of you are preaching to the proverbial choir.

[Moneypitt]

Well thanks Tom. You post up a quote from another thread into this one?...Those stats were true a few years ago, and those stats were on subject when I posted them. This thread is a little different, given the circumstances and timing. I have to side with RD when it comes to inexperienced boaters vs an experienced boater that has had a few......
Since the subject of enforcement was brought up, when are the patrol officers going to site the huge wake makers for the damage they cause, ON PURPOSE!!!! If the cops would site a few of those jerks instead of being noise and pastie patrols, perhaps a few of these single boat roll overs could be avoided. Another area that needs to be addressed is unsafe speed. People are always talking about their 100 MPH boats, 120 MPH boats etc etc... Now imagine 2 boats approaching each other, 1 mile apart, head on....One is running 120, the other 60MPH.....The closing rate is 180!!!!! That mile seperation is gone in 20 SECONDS!!!!!! I think a reasonable speed limit, 60-70-80....would make a huge difference in the water experience everyone is looking for. As mentioned, anyone that HAS to get shitfaced to enjoy the water, AND anyone that HAS to run 100 plus to enjoy the water should BOTH put it on the trailer and never come back..........As far as sober drivers killing people, what possible excuse could they have??? Can't drive? Just stupid?...No, I AM NOT advocating drinking and driving, highway or waterway, but I have to side with RD and Martygras when it comes to placing the blame for unfortunate situations. It is not always the person that has had a few, (.08) at fault.....I have seen so many stupid moves on the water by people that have no clue and have no interest in learning. Ticketed? No......LEO was too busy writing a noise ticket.......LOUD boats DO save lives. Too bad the people with the power can't see that............MP

[Jbb]

Speed limits.......Negative ghostrider.....:mad:

[Tom Brown]

Well thanks Tom.
You're welcome, Moneypitt. :)
You post up a quote from another thread into this one?
You'll find that quote under every one of my posts, that's how much I like it.
I have to side with RD when it comes to inexperienced boaters vs an experienced boater that has had a few......
The neat thing about a democracy is that things can be changed, views can be swayed. At this point, it's going to take a little more than, "I think I can handle it." Your opposition has had accredited people study this issue in depth at length and approach the study in a somewhat scientific way.
That's not to say science is always right, however. As frequently happens, science is corrupted by people's desire for a certain outcome.
Here's what I recommend: Get some well accredited people, do an extensive study, and have a look at the effects of someone who has been drinking, as compared to someone who is inexperienced. At what threshold of inexperience and sobriety are the two conditions approximately equivalent?
These are the sort of things you'll have to figure out. It's probably going to take more than saying you've driven before after having a few and you were fine. I had a power boat when I was 9. I drove it around all the time and I was just fine.
I'm sure you see the point. Study the problem, collect data, and then present your case. With so many lives on the line, a gut feel isn't a real strong argument.
Too bad the people with the power can't see that............MP
The man is tryin ta hold us down. http://www.***boat.com/ubb/mad.gif

[Boatcop]

Until something is done to stop stupid "sober" people on the same waterways, stopping "impared" people won't really make a difference. Case in point, 43% of deaths on the highways are contributed to impared drivers....so, 57% are due to SOBER drivers?????.........Almost the same can be said about water deaths...........WTF are we gonna due about SOBER people that KILL other people????????????......Highway or waterway, we're barking up the wrong tree..........SOBER people still kill more than DRUNKS................MP
I think it's been pointed out before, but I'll throw some hard figures in here.
Research has shown, through independent sources and NHTSA studies, that about 10% of the drivers on the road on a Friday or Saturday night are above the legal limit. (.08%)
A checkpoint we held on the river, between 2:00 PM and 8:00 PM on a Saturday afternoon resulted in 16 people above the limit (.08%) out of 165 boats contacted. Again about 10%.
Now that's in the peak partying times. Friday and Saturday nights on the road and Saturday afternoon on the water. It's a safe bet that those percentages are much lower during other times/days.
So 10% of the population is responsible for 43% of the fatalities. And you don't see that it's a problem?
Your argument would be valid if there were an equal amount of sober drivers and drunk drivers. But that's not the case.
In 2006 there were 42,642 traffic fatalities.
18,336 deaths caused by drunk drivers.
If there were an equal amount of drunk drivers as sober drivers on the road, the drunks would account for at least 91,680 deaths. More than twice the number as sober drivers.

[Tom Brown]

Research has shown, through independent sources and NHTSA studies, that about 10% of the drivers on the road on a Friday or Saturday night are above the legal limit. (.08%)
A checkpoint we held on the river, between 2:00 PM and 8:00 PM on a Saturday afternoon resulted in 16 people above the limit (.08%) out of 165 boats contacted. Again about 10%.
Holy shit! Are you focking kidding me? :jawdrop:
That's unbelievable to me. :(

[Moneypitt]

Alan, once again you have shared the straight poop with us, I do appreiciate that, as well as whatever you and the others that try to keep everyone safe are up against. However, The stats are based on an unknown factor, the actual, real number of .08 driver out there. It is kinda like illegals, we, nor our government really knows exactly how many are here. We/they know how many are caught, but the others are a non number, unknown. Also the stats I refered to, although somewhat out dated, are also skewed based on the level of imparement, vs "alcohol related".....The alcohol related deaths also include drunk pedestrians that walk in front of cars, as an example. If 2 beer cans fall out of a wreck, it is alcohol related.....I agree there are too many innocent people hurt/killed by "impared" drivers, no arguement there. But based on an unknown number it is impossible to say how many drivers are impared unless, and until, they are caught, same with illegal aliens. We can determine how many deaths are caused by drunks, and by sober people, and we can agree it is way too many. I feel the penalty for vehicular/vessel manslaughter should be very simular, drunk or sober, and very severe for both. There was a young girl here in Ventura County that caused the deaths of 5 or 7 people from one family in a rear ender. She was sober, not paying attention. If alcohol related she would be under the prison for a long, long time. But she was given PROBATION!!!!!!!! Someone please tell me how that was right!!!!!! People caught .08, having hurt no one, No accident, not even a moving violation associated with the traffic stop WILL do time, and she gets probation because it was an accident??????? It was no accident, she should have never been driving in the first place because she lacked the basic skills to do so...........Alan, I do respect you and the job you try to do, I also respect your opinion, your knowledge, and your very difficult experiences...MP

[sheba]

Hello Everyone,
Some of you have heard of Sara Margiotta (www.saramargiotta.org) the 10 year old girl that was taken from this world in a head on boating collision on August 4, 2007 on the Colorado River in the Topock/Havisu area.
My name is Erica and I was on the boat that Sara was on when the tragedy
happened. First I would like to thank each and every one of you for your kind words,thoughts, prayers, support, and encouragement to the family and friends. It means so much...
I wanted to extend the following information to all of our new friends
and for those who want to support the efforts of safer boating. In early
November 2007, Sara's family and friends will be holding the First
Annual Sara's Way Golf Benefit, dinner and auction in Temecula, CA. The
details are still being finalized, but for those of you who would like
more information regarding the Golf Tournament, please e-mail me
(sheba144@hotmail.com) your contact information and I would be happy to
send you the details, which will be finalized by next week.
Sara's Way is a not-for profit organization that is currently in the
final stages of being set up in Sara's name by family and friends. I
would also love to share more information regarding Sara's Way for those
who are interested. Let's make a difference. It is said that actions
speak louder than words, so let's act... Thank you all again for your
support and I look forward to hearing from all of you.

[Wicky]

Real good one Tom Brown.
You both came out talking to me for NO reason. I did or said nothing for either you to make comments about me. If you read that whole thread I started, you will see that I never bashed anyone or blamed drinking for all boating accidents.
You wanna talk about growing up??..Ok..
Its really grown up and mature of you to come on this thread which THECARDUDES started. He felt from his heart that he wanted to do this with his time and his money to hopefully save lives and prevent restrictions on the river. You have no right to come on here and put everyones idea down. Im sorry that both of you have small black hearts and dont care about anyone else, as long as you get to have your few beers and drive.
Grow up.
Damn...Dennis truly redefines what it means to be a "Barney"
My condolences for the family of the little girl.
DUIs/BUIs...a billion dollar industry