Indian Gaming Profit Sharing???WTF? Your take?

[beaverretriever]

I sell Harleys as many of you know. I just happened to run credit on a guy that wants to buy a new Ultra Classic. He was a nice guy and we started to shoot the bull. He was about 45 or so yrs old. He is a retired tow truck driver. Well, when it came to his monthly income, he stated $31,000.00 a month!!! That is over 350k a yr.
He is part of an indian rez in Cali that has a casino on it. He sits back and collects 31k a month income from the casino.
What do you guys think of this?

[USCFAN]

Must be nice to be him...

[AirtimeLavey]

Yep, anyone that can prove they're part of the tribe gets paid once they're over 18. Years ago, Soboba had some vandalism probs. from some of the teenage tribe members. Then the elders explained that they only take future money out of their own pockets, and things quickly got better.
Those casinos are making so much, that's why Arnold wanted a piece.

[RitcheyRch]

And he wants finance the bike?

[boats&bars]

Very common to see an income like that from a tribal member.

[squirt'nmyload]

And he wants finance the bike?
my thoughts exactly

[beaverretriever]

And he wants finance the bike?
The more you make the more you spend. He has a new 08 F-450, 3 new Harleys already and a 4000k a month house payment.
The funny part is, I don't even know if he will qualify.. He had a BK:eek:

[Screaming Pete]

I sell Harleys as many of you know. I just happened to run credit on a guy that wants to buy a new Ultra Classic. He was a nice guy and we started to shoot the bull. He was about 45 or so yrs old. He is a retired tow truck driver. Well, when it came to his monthly income, he stated $31,000.00 a month!!! That is over 350k a yr.
He is part of an indian rez in Cali that has a casino on it. He sits back and collects 31k a month income from the casino.
What do you guys think of this?
well i think he's getting what he is intitled to under current tribal laws and there profit sharing plan. the tribes also have to create infastruture, schools, medical ect. and he pays taxes also. so there go half of that to the state and fed. so sell him that harley and put 20k extra in chrome on up your comm. a few points and hope he doesn't read hot boat

[RitcheyRch]

Would think with that type of income would have a nice savings account.
my thoughts exactly
Very true about the more you make the more you spend.
The more you make the more you spend. He has a new 08 F-450, 3 new Harleys already and a 4000k a month house payment.
The funny part is, I don't even know if he will qualify.. He had a BK:eek:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I sell Harleys as many of you know. I just happened to run credit on a guy that wants to buy a new Ultra Classic. He was a nice guy and we started to shoot the bull. He was about 45 or so yrs old. He is a retired tow truck driver. Well, when it came to his monthly income, he stated $31,000.00 a month!!! That is over 350k a yr.
He is part of an indian rez in Cali that has a casino on it. He sits back and collects 31k a month income from the casino.
What do you guys think of this?
If he is entitled to it as a tribe member then what is the problem? It's really no different than a dividend check being mailed to thousands of investors in publicly held companies.....Just so happens that in order to be an investor in this casino you need to be a tribe member.....who cares.....Now, if you wanna talk indian caisnos paying their fair share in corporate taxes then there may be a case to be made.....

[beaverretriever]

If he is entitled to it as a tribe member then what is the problem? It's really no different than a dividend check being mailed to thousands of investors in publicly held companies.....Just so happens that in order to be an investor in this casino you need to be a tribe member.....who cares.....Now, if you wanna talk indian caisnos paying their fair share in corporate taxes then there may be a case to be made.....
Hey, don't get me wrong, I would take it to if I could get. Unfortunately I have to work my ass off every day for the money I make. :rolleyes:

[Baja Big Dog]

He failed to mention the annual bonus...yep, it averages 25-35K for the Pechanga's....

[Roxysnow]

You should have charged him $260,000 for the bike! :D

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I would take it to if I could get. Unfortunately I have to work my ass off every day for the money I make. :rolleyes:
I hear you.....

[beaverretriever]

You should have charged him $260,000 for the bike! :D
LOL, after taxes, doc, prep, shipping, parts, labor, motorclothes, it will be close to that....;) :D

[havaduner]

What did his credit score end up being?
Sad thing is, here is a guy making 350K a year, and he's prolly lucky to have a high school education, hence the BK.
Most of the Indians dont do anything to "earn" that money, so yeah I guess it's hard for me to take.
Dont get me started on the corporate tax thing.

[Boatcop]

Some tribes pay their members (called per-capita payments), some don't. The CRIT members here in Parker haven't seen one thin dime off the Blue Water Casino. Others, like the Morongo and Pachenga pay their members handsomely. But they have relatively few real members who get payments. Some in the Indio area may only have a few dozen members.
One tribe in Riverside County, the Augustine Band of Mission Indians near Palm Springs. has 1 (one, uno, single, less than 2) adult member.
The Augustine Reservation was abandoned back in 1986 after the last remaining member died. It was still held in Trust for the Tribe, but there were no remaining members of the band. The land pretty much turned into a dump for household goods, appliances, batteries, junk cars, etc.
The last remaining member, Roberta Martin, had a granddaughter Mary Ann, and two sons, who were adopted and being raised in the Los Angeles area. May Ann is half black, as were the brothers
She found out that she had lineage to the Augustine band and at age 22 went back to the Reservation and set up a single wide trailer, with her African American husband, and her 2 brothers. The BIA certified them as members in 1991. The brothers, members or an LA Street Gang, were killed in Banning in separate drug deals, leaving her, her children, and the brother's 4 children as the only remaining members.
She negotiated a deal with Paragon Corp (Circus-Circus) to open a Casino in 2000, with her and her family being the only beneficiary of the profits.
On top of that she qualified for more than $1 million in Federal Funds. In 1999 and 2000 alone, government audit reports show, she pulled in $476,000 for housing, $400,000 for tribal government and $146,000 for environmental programs. And she continues to get federal funds for education, tribal development, and other Native American benefits.
All for just 8 members, 7 of them children.
Another example is the San Manuel Band. Their Casino pulls in 100 million a year. If all profits went to the 110 tribal members they would get about $900,000 each, every year.
Casinos were supposed to bring independence to the Tribes that have them, but they still receive the same amount, if not more, of Federal assistance than they did before Gaming.
So when you drop that quarter into the machine at an Indian Casino, remember that they're taking a lot more than that single quarter out of your pocket.

[rmarion]

I
What do you guys think of this?
I wish I were Indian........:jawdrop:

[vmjtc3]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I would take it to if I could get. Unfortunately I have to work my ass off every day for the money I make. :rolleyes:
Hey John, Whats the deal with the new boat. Should be about ready ??? Got any pics of it yet? :idea:

[Nord]

The Pechanga Indians make between 20-30k a month. There is a big political battle between old members and new members. They lose their "share" if they marry out of their tribe!!! Its crazy!!

[havaduner]

Some tribes pay their members (called per-capita payments), some don't. The CRIT members here in Parker haven't seen one thin dime off the Blue Water Casino. Others, like the Morongo and Pachenga pay their members handsomely. But they have relatively few real members who get payments. Some in the Indio area may only have a few dozen members.
One tribe in Riverside County, the Augustine Band of Mission Indians near Palm Springs. has 1 (one, uno, single, less than 2) adult member.
The Augustine Reservation was abandoned back in 1986 after the last remaining member died. It was still held in Trust for the Tribe, but there were no remaining members of the band. The land pretty much turned into a dump for household goods, appliances, batteries, junk cars, etc.
The last remaining member, Roberta Martin, had a granddaughter Mary Ann, and two sons, who were adopted and being raised in the Los Angeles area. May Ann is half black, as were the brothers
She found out that she had lineage to the Augustine band and at age 22 went back to the Reservation and set up a single wide trailer, with her African American husband, and her 2 brothers. The BIA certified them as members in 1991. The brothers, members or an LA Street Gang, were killed in Banning in separate drug deals, leaving her, her children, and the brother's 4 children as the only remaining members.
She negotiated a deal with Paragon Corp (Circus-Circus) to open a Casino in 2000, with her and her family being the only beneficiary of the profits.
On top of that she qualified for more than $1 million in Federal Funds. In 1999 and 2000 alone, government audit reports show, she pulled in $476,000 for housing, $400,000 for tribal government and $146,000 for environmental programs. And she continues to get federal funds for education, tribal development, and other Native American benefits.
All for just 8 members, 7 of them children.
Another example is the San Manuel Band. Their Casino pulls in 100 million a year. If all profits went to the 110 tribal members they would get about $900,000 each, every year.
Casinos were supposed to bring independence to the Tribes that have them, but they still receive the same amount, if not more, of Federal assistance than they did before Gaming.
So when you drop that quarter into the machine at an Indian Casino, remember that they're taking a lot more than that single quarter out of your pocket.
Well said Alan!!

[Boatcop]

The Pechanga Indians make between 20-30k a month. There is a big political battle between old members and new members. They lose their "share" if they marry out of their tribe!!! Its crazy!!
Not only that, but there's about 600 members that that the tribe is trying to banish from the tribe. It seems that the 600 are descendants of a family that had had a falling out with the ruling tribal family back in the 1920s.
The leaders of the tribe are descendant of that ruling family, and are trying to get them disenrolled, so they don't have to pay them the per-capita, and have more money for themselves.

[Nord]

Not only that, but there's about 600 members that that the tribe is trying to banish from the tribe. It seems that the 600 are descendants of a family that had had a falling out with the ruling tribal family back in the 1920s.
The leaders of the tribe are descendant of that ruling family, and are trying to get them disenrolled, so they don't have to pay them the per-capita, and have more money for themselves.
I heard that was happening, thats why I said there was a political battle going on.......They guy who cleans the bathrooms at that casino makes more than I do..............:(
Pretty sad

[jbone]

If he is entitled to it as a tribe member then what is the problem? It's really no different than a dividend check being mailed to thousands of investors in publicly held companies.....Just so happens that in order to be an investor in this casino you need to be a tribe member.....who cares.....Now, if you wanna talk indian caisnos paying their fair share in corporate taxes then there may be a case to be made.....
But he is NOT an investor, just an indian.
I am actually jealous of their opportunity to get rich, so I really don't have a problem with the casinos on reservation land. Problem is they are branching out and purchasing property off the reservation. They are trying to say that property is now an extension of the reservation. This could become a major problem
J

[Biglue]

Interesting reading here Boatcop. That just blew me away.
Everytime I thought "Indian Reservation" I pictured a run down wooden shack in a poverty stricken community seen in movies and articles. Guess things are different for certain tribes. I remember reading on this topic on here before and some forum members being pretty upset at the whole Indian Gaming deal, now I understand why. 31K/month just because you're of Indian dessent (sp?), anyone else find that a little unfair?

[YeLLowBoaT]

hey I'm a Native american... I wonder if I could get some of that???
I wouldn't take it even, its supose to help those in need, which its not. Besides I kind of that this stick about being able to stand on my own two feet.

[Boatcop]

Interesting reading here Boatcop. That just blew me away.
Everytime I thought "Indian Reservation" I pictured a run down wooden shack in a poverty stricken community seen in movies and articles. Guess things are different for certain tribes. I remember reading on this topic on here before and some forum members being pretty upset at the whole Indian Gaming deal, now I understand why. 31K/month just because you're of Indian dessent (sp?), anyone else find that a little unfair?
I don't really have a problem with them getting 31K or whatever a month, Lue. As many know, my wife is Native American. Cherokee to be precise. She gets absolutely nothing from the tribe, as she doesn't reside in Cherokee Indian Country. (They no longer have a "reservation" per se in Oklahoma.)
She does qualify for some benefits, such as Indian Preference hiring at her current job in the Indian Health Service, and medical care through same. But she is an employee of the Federal Dept. of Health and Human Services, not a particular tribe.
What pisses me off, is that Indian Gaming was allowed as a way to Indian independence and self reliance. A way to get them off the Government dole. But even as they are taking in millions and sometimes billions from gaming, they still get the same, if not more, funding from the US Government. While some like Pachanga and Morongo pay thousands a month to their members, other tribes don't do squat.
CRIT is a prime example. The way most of them live is as you envision it. In run down trailers and old, falling apart homes, which in some cases can best be described as "shacks". The CRIT members are just now asking where the money is. There is a committee formed to revise their Constitution and recall all the Tribal Council. They also want term limits so the same handful or Tribal power mongers aren't running the Res for decades at a time. We'll just have to wait to see how that all pans out.
If the Tribes want Gaming to enhance their sovereignty, and help their people more power to them. But they should be weaning themselves off the Government nipple at the same time.

[Baja Big Dog]

Hey John, Whats the deal with the new boat. Should be about ready ??? Got any pics of it yet? :idea:
WTF????

[Dribble]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I would take it to if I could get. Unfortunately I have to work my ass off every day for the money I make. :rolleyes:
Selling Harleys, with no haggling, hanging in the Harley shop and checking out the customers wives and girlfriends isn't exactly digging ditches.

[LEADFOOTjosh]

Before I sold my shop in Temecula.. I built lots of trucks and jeeps for the Pala and Pechanga tribes.. They dont save any money.. just spend.. but do you blame them.. they get 15-25K a month for the rest of there lives.. if they want something.. they just wait a month :D

[Biglue]

I don't really have a problem with them getting 31K or whatever a month, Lue. As many know, my wife is Native American. Cherokee to be precise. She gets absolutely nothing from the tribe, as she doesn't reside in Cherokee Indian Country. (They no longer have a "reservation" per se in Oklahoma.)
She does qualify for some benefits, such as Indian Preference hiring at her current job in the Indian Health Service, and medical care through same. But she is an employee of the Federal Dept. of Health and Human Services, not a particular tribe.
What pisses me off, is that Indian Gaming was allowed as a way to Indian independence and self reliance. A way to get them off the Government dole. But even as they are taking in millions and sometimes billions from gaming, they still get the same, if not more, funding from the US Government. While some like Pachanga and Morongo pay thousands a month to their members, other tribes don't do squat.
CRIT is a prime example. The way most of them live is as you envision it. In run down trailers and old, falling apart homes, which in some cases can best be described as "shacks". The CRIT members are just now asking where the money is. There is a committee formed to revise their Constitution and recall all the Tribal Council. They also want term limits so the same handful or Tribal power mongers aren't running the Res for decades at a time. We'll just have to wait to see how that all pans out.
If the Tribes want Gaming to enhance their sovereignty, and help their people more power to them. But they should be weaning themselves off the Government nipple at the same time.
I hope I didn't touch on a sore subject for you Alan. That wasn't my intention. I appologize if what I posted offended you or your Mrs.
I do agree with your view tho. Total sham it seems.

[beaverretriever]

Selling Harleys, with no haggling, hanging in the Harley shop and checking out the customers wives and girlfriends isn't exactly digging ditches.
Not to change the subject; but if that is all there was to selling them, I wouldn't sell 19-35 bikes a month compared to most others west of the Mississippi that sell 8-13 a month. ;)
Oh, you forgot to add "post on Hot Boat"!!! LOL:D :D

[beaverretriever]

Hey John, Whats the deal with the new boat. Should be about ready ??? Got any pics of it yet? :idea:
I got some build pix, but I won't post it till its done. I will have it about the 23rd. I will be on Mead with it on that Friday to break it in then off to Havi.

[Boatcop]

I hope I didn't touch on a sore subject for you Alan. That wasn't my intention. I appologize if what I posted offended you or your Mrs.
I do agree with your view tho. Total sham it seems.
No sore subject, Lue. Kathy knew she had SOME Indian blood, from stories from her Dad. Hell. She was born in Santa Monica and lived her whole life (until me) in Manhattan Beach.
It wasn't until the Internet and my genealogy research that we found out exactly how much Indian blood she had. In the first 3/4s of the 1900s it wasn't "cool" to be Indian, and her family distanced themselves from the culture.
We just happened to be contacted by a cousin, who she didn't know about, in Oklahoma who steered us in the right direction. We found she was eligible for membership, and spent about 2 years trying to get the proper documentation.
We were also able to obtain letters and other things from her family. One letter from her Great-Great-Great Grandmother, who had walked the Trail of Tears at age 7, was telling her daughter and grand-daughter to accept the land grant of the Dawes Commission in the late 1890s when the Cherokee Reservation was being dissolved. Many Cherokee were debating whether to accept the grants, or leave the territory.
The descendants of those who accepted the grants are those that make up the Cherokee Nation of today. The descendants of those who didn't are SOL. Even some who may be full blooded Cherokee are not eligible for citizenship in the Tribe, because the Dawes Land Rolls are the basis for membership.
It's fascinating to read and discover the real story of what this Nation did to it's Native People, rather than base it on the Hollywood version.
It's been compared to slavery and their African-American descendants of today. But it's completely different. The bigots and racists are telling blacks to go back where they came from.
And that's all the Indian people ever wanted to do.

[fourspeednup]

A few years ago my dad was seated next to a native american architect on a 3 hr flight and learned a great deal about how the casinos work vs the original concept. Basically the only real money makers are the casinos...Ballys, Wynn, etc. The few tribal members left had to live on the reservation to get the benefits, 250k a year for each family member in this case. According to him there would be a row of double wides with 4-5 escalades parked in the dirt in front.
He said the minority of educated ones put the $$$ away and understand that it won't last, probably due to unorganized tribal councils like Boatcop said.
This architect had educated parents who had to trace their bloodlines back to see they had Indian blood. (I think he grew up in San Diego) He saw a market opening since the casinos had to have native americans involved in the design and construction process so he pursued an architectural degree and now makes a killing with guaranteed contracts. Cool guy who capitalized on some good fortune :)

[The Doctor]

There would be no revenue being dished out if there weren't gamblers to feed the system. Personally, I believe gambling to be a tax on the less intelligent. Keep in mind, it's just one man's opinion.