Best Deck on the Market

[ChumpChange]

When answering the poll, think which one out of these ten you would buy if you had the money.
Don't think best value, just best boat on the market. Yes, some were left off the list but that is because I could only pick ten and these are the ten I felt like listing.
The list is in alphabetical order.

[HM]

When answering the poll, think which one out of these ten you would buy if you had the money.
Don't think best value, just best boat on the market. Yes, some were left off the list but that is because I could only pick ten and these are the ten I felt like listing.
The list is in alphabetical order.
Nice List....so many to choose from! :D
O.k. I saw the thread before the poll went up. :D

[OutCole'd]

Where's the "all of the above" option?:D

[Phat Matt]

:idea:

[djunkie]

Where's the "all of the above" option?:D
Damm you know its bad when you won't even vote for the deck boat that you own. :D :D

[OGShocker]

When answering the poll, think which one out of these ten you would buy if you had the money.
Don't think best value, just best boat on the market. Yes, some were left off the list but that is because I could only pick ten and these are the ten I felt like listing.
The list is in alphabetical order.
I am a Conquest fan. That should change when Dana releases theirs.:idea:

[BarryMac]

Hurricane??? :D

[djunkie]

I am a Conquest fan. That should change when Dana releases theirs.:idea:
I had a tough time deciding between the Howard and the Conquest myself. :idea: :D :D

[ChumpChange]

Nice List....so many to choose from! :D
O.k. I saw the thread before the poll went up. :D
Polls are a two step process. :D

[Phat Matt]

http://a899.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/65/l_1ae12fc7977ca0157e8f3e46d9999ff2.jpg

[OutCole'd]

Damm you know its bad when you won't even vote for the deck boat that you own. :D :D
At least I'm honest, I love my boat, but all those listed are awesome boats. I'm not blinded there Mr. Howard nut swinger....:D :D

[djunkie]

At least I'm honest, I love my boat, but all those listed are awesome boats. I'm not blinded there Mr. Howard nut swinger....:D :D
How do you know I didn't vote for the Conquest? :idea:

[Pussywhippled]

My vote is E Ticket...
But that is based purely on looking at magazines.
I don't get out much.

[Phat Matt]

My vote is E Ticket...
But that is based purely on looking at magazines.
I don't get out much.
I'll back you up. :D

[OutCole'd]

How do you know I didn't vote for the Conquest? :idea:
Because I have a crystal ball you moron.:D

[djunkie]

Because I have a crystal ball you moron.:D
The only balls you got are in your wifes purse!!!!!!! Oooops. Sorry. Thought you were Phebus for a moment. :D :D

[Cole Trickle]

I don't think there is a deck on the market that will compare with the E-Tickets size and rough water handling ability.(I don't think the Magic 30 is in the same class:) )
If cost wasn't an issue I think twin 700's/Nxt drives would be a nice fit:D;)
If there was a budget thrown in the Ultra Deck would have been my choice:)

[hkunz]

Since Advantage isn't listed, I can't respond:)
Seriously, we just finished shopping, for just about a year, for a deck boat that fit our needs. Although we didn't even look at some on the list, for whatever reason, we looked at almost all on your list, rode in most, and even visited the factories. They are all great boats, and each has features that make it shine above the rest in that category. Some have superior paint work, some have great rigging, some have "bang for the buck", some have (literally) laser straight gelcoat, some have well thought out interiors. If you were to go shop for a deck, I would have to say not to leave out any of those on your list. Although, I didn't strictly follow my own advice - we eliminated some without test drives due to such things as aestetically not liking the way the boat looked on the water, or the graphics of a particular boat or series of boats, or if the manufacturing process was distant or not to my liking. Arbitrary, I know. It all comes down to individual taste.

[laveycrafter]

I too would of played, but you failed to list Laveycraft's 28' Party Prowler.:sqeyes:

[Phat Matt]

:D
http://a351.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/15/l_0c7cec35469a4dc7008fd957a8ae3816.jpg

[djunkie]

I don't think there is a deck on the market that will compare with the E-Tickets size and rough water handling ability.(I don't think the Magic 30 is in the same class:) )
If cost wasn't an issue I think twin 700's/Nxt drives would be a nice fit:D;)
If there was a budget thrown in the Ultra Deck would have been my choice:)
The E-ticket is a very nice deckboat. BUT......The lack of a molded swimstep kills it for me. I still feel that the Conquest for the money is the best on the market of the ones I've seen. But if money was no object then I'd take that Howard deck that Bob Teague was testing in Parker on memorial weekend. That thing was running close to triple digits in some nasty water and looked stable as can be.

[HalletDave]

:idea:
Can all of these boats perform the "SPINOUT" maneuver in a safe manner at any speed?:D

[Phat Matt]

The E-ticket is a very nice deckboat. BUT......The lack of a molded swimstep kills it for me. I still feel that the Conquest for the money is the best on the market of the ones I've seen. But if money was no object then I'd take that Howard deck that Bob Teague was testing in Parker on memorial weekend. That thing was running close to triple digits in some nasty water and looked stable as can be.
The MOLDED swim step on my boat is perfect. It fits chicks with tiny asses just fine. I myself sit on the billet one. :D

[dicudmore]

I'd be happy to own any of them :D

[Cole Trickle]

The E-ticket is a very nice deckboat. BUT......The lack of a molded swimstep kills it for me. I still feel that the Conquest for the money is the best on the market of the ones I've seen. But if money was no object then I'd take that Howard deck that Bob Teague was testing in Parker on memorial weekend. That thing was running close to triple digits in some nasty water and looked stable as can be.
Honestly I don't like molded swimsteps....Everyone I have been on has been pretty slippery.(Also part of the reason I like the Ultra)
I think the Conquest is very nice and would be at the top of my list along with Ultra,Howard and Trident.
also...If you think that Howard is in the same league as the E-Ticket your nuts. Phatt Matt went by me at 100mph in the no wake zone on the way to Topok Poker Run weekend and the boat was so smooth his dog never spilled a drop of his Martini:D:D:devil: :sqeyes:

[djunkie]

Honestly I don't like molded swimsteps....Everyone I have been on has been pretty slippery.(Also part of the reason I like the Ultra)
I think the Conquest is very nice and would be at the top of my list along with Ultra,Howard and Trident.
also...If you think that Howard is in the same league as the E-Ticket your nuts. Phatt Matt went by me at 100mph in the no wake zone on the way to Topok Poker Run weekend and the boat was so smooth his dog never spilled a drop of his Martini:D:D:devil: :sqeyes:
I don't think E-ticket should even be on the list. I don't think it is a fair comparison seeing how much bigger it is along with being powered by twins. Of course among the few twin engined decks out there I do feel it is the best.

[dicudmore]

Honestly I don't like molded swimsteps....Everyone I have been on has been pretty slippery.(Also part of the reason I like the Ultra)
I think the Conquest is very nice and would be at the top of my list along with Ultra,Howard and Trident.
also...If you think that Howard is in the same league as the E-Ticket your nuts. Phatt Matt went by me at 100mph in the no wake zone on the way to Topok Poker Run weekend and the boat was so smooth his dog never spilled a drop of his Martini:D:D:devil: :sqeyes:
was Buddy working the sticks again? :D

[Cole Trickle]

was Buddy working the sticks again? :D
Paws forward.......That dog is an animal by the time I got to Moabi (2 hours later;)) the dog had drank so much that he puked and was passed out on the front deck:D

[Cole Trickle]

I don't think E-ticket should even be on the list. I don't think it is a fair comparison seeing how much bigger it is along with being powered by twins. Of course among the few twin engined decks out there I do feel it is the best.
I agree:)
But they said $$ wasn't an option and it's on the list:D

[duner21]

That is a great list of boat builders. How can you choose just one! I am partial to conquest because i own one. If money were no object that would be a tough choice:D

[ChumpChange]

I don't think E-ticket should even be on the list. I don't think it is a fair comparison seeing how much bigger it is along with being powered by twins. Of course among the few twin engined decks out there I do feel it is the best.
I agree:)
But they said $$ wasn't an option and it's on the list:D
I would tend to agree but at the same time....they're still trailing Howard.

[Angry Inch]

Who is more expensive E-Ticket, Howard or Trident?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Trident must have made some seriously good impressions. Considering how few of them are on the water, at the time of this post, Trident was in 4th position and ahead of Ultra.

[jbtrailerjim]

Since I've never ridden in or driven any of these boats on the list, my vote is based on looks, function, articles I've read, builder reputation, and checking them out in person. Howard gets my vote and Conquest Top Cat II is a close second. I love them both and it would be a real hard choice.
Here is the rest of the top ten listed if I was buying off of the list given.
3) Ultra
4) Cobra
5) Shockwave
6) Magic
7) DCB
8) Next
9) Trident
10) E-Ticket

[Cole Trickle]

Who is more expensive E-Ticket, Howard or Trident?
I think the Howard starts around 100K (With an HO) I think you would be pushing 140K with a merc 600 and all the goodies
E Ticket requires twins and I think there base boat is close to 175K(Phatt Matt ruined the good pricing when his sled won deckboat of the year;))
Pretty sure you could get a pimped out Trident for around 140K (99K base)

[Cole Trickle]

Trident must have made some seriously good impressions. Considering how few of them are on the water, at the time of this post, Trident was in 4th position and ahead of Ultra.
Not taking anything from Ultra because they will probably build my next boat but Trident #3 (red/white) was off the hook in rigging/style and apperance.:)
I think just like the E-Ticket the 26 Deck is on the opisite end of the spectrum compared to the other loaded decks. The Ultra is kind of plain (I like that) ammenity wise and has the least amount of walk around room.It's really more a open bow cat with a walk off bow.

[Danhercules]

Top of the list with money no object, E-Ticket for sure.
Next Conquest.
For small deck, ULTRA!!! I love my 21' deck. The 23' is tight too!

[Phat Matt]

I think the Howard starts around 100K (With an HO) I think you would be pushing 140K with a merc 600 and all the goodies
E Ticket requires twins and I think there base boat is close to 175K(Phatt Matt ruined the good pricing when his sled won deckboat of the year;))
Pretty sure you could get a pimped out Trident for around 140K (99K base)
I haven't checked the prices lately but I am thinking 175k wouldn't be base. That would more likely be fully loaded with the HO's, stereo included.

[DMOORE]

Best deck on the market, has to be the Nimitz class. By far MUCH superior to the others.:)
Darrell.

[Froggystyle]

Who is more expensive E-Ticket, Howard or Trident?
Exactly that order... We are the least expensive of the three by quite a bit.
Trident must have made some seriously good impressions. Considering how few of them are on the water, at the time of this post, Trident was in 4th position and ahead of Ultra.
We have had a great year so far. Though we only have a handful of boats out there, each one of them is in the hands of a very, very happy owner, and all are the leading performers in the class. Completely without dispute, the Trident is clearly the lightest, strongest, best rough water handling, highest capacity, fastest, quickest and least expensive.
I do regret taking so long in bringing the outdrive variant to market. Could have been a different last couple of years for us if we had done that first.
Thanks for those who supported us... I had a clear favorite... :D
Wes

[Cole Trickle]

I haven't checked the prices lately but I am thinking 175k wouldn't be base. That would more likely be fully loaded with the HO's, stereo included.
hmmm.....
What would your boat cost to replace to the average consumer walking in off the street?
What would a good guesstimate of build time be?
175K is worse than 140K but not terrible in todays market:) :)

[OutCole'd]

Sad part is, you can add up all those votes, multiply them by 4 and that's how many Magics are on each side of the channel on any given weekend.:D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Not taking anything from Ultra because they will probably build my next boat but Trident #3 (red/white) was off the hook in rigging/style and apperance.:)
I think just like the E-Ticket the 26 Deck is on the opisite end of the spectrum compared to the other loaded decks. The Ultra is kind of plain (I like that) ammenity wise and has the least amount of walk around room.It's really more a open bow cat with a walk off bow.
Your description of the Ultra is spot on. Much more sport boat than deck.
Exactly that order... We are the least expensive of the three by quite a bit.
We have had a great year so far. Though we only have a handful of boats out there, each one of them is in the hands of a very, very happy owner, and all are the leading performers in the class. Completely without dispute, the Trident is clearly the lightest, strongest, best rough water handling, highest capacity, fastest, quickest and least expensive.
I do regret taking so long in bringing the outdrive variant to market. Could have been a different last couple of years for us if we had done that first.
Thanks for those who supported us... I had a clear favorite... :D
Wes
Great job Wes

[No Name]

:) E-Ticket :)

[Phat Matt]

hmmm.....
What would your boat cost to replace to the average consumer walking in off the street?
What would a good guesstimate of build time be?
175K is worse than 140K but not terrible in todays market:) :)
I am saying if walked in to buy a boat set up just like mine you are probably around 175k. I bet you could have it in less than 12 weeks. I am just guessing here but I would think I am pretty close.

[XtrmWakeborder]

Hmm I had to go Trident then the E-Ticket. A ride in both may or may not change that though.

[Wmc]

If you don't have the big $$:D :D

[Troubles No More]

Howard has my vote

[parker guy]

I love my Conquest , I considered the Howard when it first came out but little things like the slide out cooler I didn't like . Conquest in my opinion has refined what you need in a deck boat...

[bohica]

Nice to see there are a lot of nice decks to choose from. It would suck if we were all driving around the same boat. As they say, there's an ass for every seat.:D

[Never Satisfied]

But i'm very interested on seeing the DCB 30 whenever it comes out!!! Comparing apples to apples thats closer to the E-Ticket then a 28 footer, much more boat. I have only seen the drawings in there adds but interested in the finished product. 28 foot range conquest or Howard. I have a Hallett right now but not hip on their deck!(not thats it's even on the list!) i don't like the cutouts on the side!

[phebus]

The new Conquest 32 is going to be incredible. I have seen the work in progress and it's awesome.

[djunkie]

The new Conquest 32 is going to be incredible. I have seen the work in progress and it's awesome.
So you thinking about reclaiming your balls and getting one? :D :D :D

[phebus]

So you thinking about reclaiming your balls and getting one? :D :D :D
The problem is, my moth balls are bigger then my bank account. So not happening anytime soon................:mad:

[2forcefull]

I say howard for the one I like and think is best,
domn8ter should be on the list,
and I think cheetah is the best bang for the buck,
and yes I have a cheetah 28' 496 ho

[BadKachina]

I've only been on a couple on that list, the Trident to me has the best ergonomics and usable space. The rigging is top notch, I'm sure some of the others are in it's class, I just haven't seen them for my self. The Howard looked really good in this months HB, if I had to pick one out of the boats that were tested in this months magazine, I would pick it just on personal taste.
So for me.........
Trident
Howard.

[LAPII]

Guess sales don't mean anything? First functional canopied deckboat will rule market, of course with good lines.

[djunkie]

I'm actually pretty shocked at these results so far. :jawdrop: :D :D

[Phat Matt]

I guess I need to give out some more test rides. :)

[djunkie]

I've never really been a big fan of deckboats. But after seeing this one and how it ran, I think I may want one. :D :D
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37557&stc=1&d=1187673122
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37558&stc=1&d=1187673122
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37559&stc=1&d=1187673122
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37560&stc=1&d=1187673122

[One Particular Harbor]

Completely without dispute, the Trident is clearly the lightest, strongest, best rough water handling, highest capacity, fastest, quickest and least expensive.
I'll dispute a couple of these (armchair quarterbacking of course, since I haven't ridden in all of these deck boats):
Lightest - yes
Strongest - quite possibly
Best rough water handling - :idea: got to go with E-Ticket on this one, bigger boat all the way around with much deeper sponsons
Highest capacity - :idea: Again, the E-Ticket's a big boat. 30' Magic?
Quickest - yes
Least expensive - :idea: This list, it's probably the Shockwave; not on this list...there's a bunch (e.g. Cheetah)
Wes, you build a great boat, no doubts. But I don't think you can win every category ;)
OPH

[Jyruiz]

Man, that is a hard one, but I think I would go with a Trident, but I will probably end up with a cheetah Wildcat. I got to check out Nodiggs Wildcat, and I really like it, seems really big inside for s 26'r.

[ChumpChange]

I'll dispute a couple of these (armchair quarterbacking of course, since I haven't ridden in all of these deck boats):
Lightest - yes
Strongest - quite possibly
Best rough water handling - :idea: got to go with E-Ticket on this one, bigger boat all the way around with much deeper sponsons
Highest capacity - :idea: Again, the E-Ticket's a big boat. 30' Magic?
Quickest - yes
Least expensive - :idea: This list, it's probably the Shockwave; not on this list...there's a bunch (e.g. Cheetah)
Wes, you build a great boat, no doubts. But I don't think you can win every category ;)
OPH
He was only comparing the three quoted in his response. The person asked exclusively about Howard, E-Ticket and Trident ONLY.

[ChumpChange]

I say howard for the one I like and think is best,
domn8ter should be on the list,
and I think cheetah is the best bang for the buck,
and yes I have a cheetah 28' 496 ho
Correct, Cheetah should have been ont the list but they slipped my mind.

[Froggystyle]

I'll dispute a couple of these (armchair quarterbacking of course, since I haven't ridden in all of these deck boats):
Best rough water handling - :idea: got to go with E-Ticket on this one, bigger boat all the way around with much deeper sponsons
Highest capacity - :idea: Again, the E-Ticket's a big boat. 30' Magic?
You haven't ridden in it... The concensus from everyone who has ridden in both is that the Trident is smoother and handles better than the E-ticket, which, for the record would be my choice should the Trident not be on the market. When loaded in the bow, the E-ticket tracks back and forth quite a bit and solidly smacks any big chop headed your way. It doesn't flex or creak as it is a well built boat, but it does hit very hard. The Revolution just doesn't do that. Anyone who has ridden on it in serious water will agree. Normal Havasu chop is a piece of cake.
It holds quite a few more people than the E-ticket as well. 14 coast guard legal. As big as the front benches are, they really only seat one in each under way. Two in the helm seats and six around the back. Real world capacity of 10-12. Ours runs 75 with 12 on board with a 550.
It is by no means the least expensive on the list, or on the market. But it is the least expensive of the premium boats by a lot, and built to higher standards with more advanced materials than all of them.
Come and take a ride... it will blow your mind.

[beaverretriever]

Highest capacity - :idea: Again, the E-Ticket's a big boat. 30' Magic?
OPH
Have you seen that fricken couch Wes put in his boat? You could fit 6hookers, the winner of "The biggest Loser" prior to winning the show, a fullsize keg and one 75lb bag of horse shit on that thing!!!!:D
BTW, I love that couch. It is my favorite part of the boat. Everyone I have showed that couch to on the web site thinks it is awesome.

[Phat Matt]

You haven't ridden in it... The concensus from everyone who has ridden in both is that the Trident is smoother and handles better than the E-ticket...
When loaded in the bow, the E-ticket tracks back and forth quite a bit and solidly smacks any big chop headed your way.
:idea: I may have heard some other things myself. :)
Agreed. I would rather have the weight and people behind me when I drive. The driver and passenger seat is already more forward than most decks. I think it's better for driving and seeing ahead of you. I don't like to have 2 couples (4 people) sitting in the bow and not in the back if I am going to get some speed. The sponsons will dig in and track back and forth. Put the weight in back in the huge horse shoe and I feel safer and am ready to fly. As far as rough water goes, gimme it, I will and have ate it up all day. :D

[Froggystyle]

:idea: As far as rough water goes, gimme it, I will and have ate it up all day. :D
Agreed completely. The two best rough water performers are being compared here, and both are from all accounts the class leaders. One is a 7,000#, twin engine, 10' wide boat that seats 10-12, the other is a 3400# single engine, legal width that seats 14. The former uses weight, size and inertia to make short work of heavy chop and the other uses hull design, light weight and strength to mitigate the chop a completely different way. Both methods work really well, but the latter is faster with less power, costs less to own and operate, drafts considerably less and has unique ingress and egress out the front and rear.
Two great boats for the job. Like I said, if the Trident wasn't on the market... I would likely be in an E-ticket.

[Phat Matt]

Two great boats for the job. Like I said, if the Trident wasn't on the market... I would likely be in an E-ticket.
Well if you would have built your boat a little sooner I'm sure I would have been in a Trident. I remeber talking to you about it when it was a concept at you house years ago and I wasn't even in the deck boat market. :D
We'll be in Havi the next two weekends, which one are you showing up for? :D

[Froggystyle]

Well if you would have built your boat a little sooner I'm sure I would have been in a Trident. I remeber talking to you about it when it was a concept at you house years ago and I wasn't even in the deck boat market. :D
We'll be in Havi the next two weekends, which one are you showing up for? :D
We keep missing you guys. BTW... you rickrolled me big time...
I am busy building boats right now. Hopefully things will lighten up a little later in the season and I can get my boat done one of these days.

[Phat Matt]

We keep missing you guys. BTW... you rickrolled me big time...
LOL. I expect to get a lot of people. I wish I had some kind of tracker. LOL. :D

[rodnjen]

I tidn't see the Hallet on the list. Any particular reason? It is not the prettiest but it does perform well and is very functiontional. Any thoughts?

[dirty old man]

After reading this months HB mag, I vote for the Hallett (not on the list)

[Phat Matt]

After reading this months HB mag, I vote for the Hallett (not on the list)
Maybe Hallett should switch with Next. :eek:

[ChumpChange]

I tidn't see the Hallet on the list. Any particular reason? It is not the prettiest but it does perform well and is very functiontional. Any thoughts?
After reading this months HB mag, I vote for the Hallett (not on the list)
Because I can only have 10 in the poll, that's why. I think Advantage should have been the next to go on though.

[ChumpChange]

Maybe Hallett should switch with Next. :eek:
I wanted to see if they'd get steam rolled.....which they did. I
though DCB was going to get a big fat zero as well. I wonder who voted for that one. :idea:

[Screaming Pete]

I think it would be interesting to compare what makes a boat better than other's is it the construction, the qualty of the hardware,features,size, fun factor or resale. a companys reputation has a lot to do with its resale value in my .02. and how well a boat holds up after 2 or 3 seasons. we need pictures with details, facts.

[Lightning]

This is a pretty tight poll. I'm surprised there are only 150 -/+ votes so far. Split between 10 choices, that's a pretty narrow margin for one to be a few percentage points over another. VOTE BITCHES

[kap]

Howard 28 Sportdeck
It will do all that I ask for my family and run like a sport boat when I'm running solo or with a wingman.
Plus, it will do anything a twin engine deck can do with less cost and maintenance.
Basis for Opinion:
Experience in the following vessels:
Conquest, Ultra, DCB, Magic, Trident, not on list--please add Placecraft, Cheetah [Fast/Wild Cat].
Personal choice and needs demanded---a Howard---from aesthetics, to build quality, to continued relationship with the manufacturer.
________________________
Commentary:
Realistically, the poll establishs only one thing what the popular vote is or desired popular vote in a limited deck boat listing. The boats in the list are all exceptional--- it depends on the fanaticism/personal preference of the operator as it relates to brand loyalty or personal choice.
I thought about choices when I was writing this reply and came up with one basis for selection that has not been mentioned.
Which deckboat would you want to be on in rough weather with your family and feel confident about getting back.
Note: Rough weather means 4-6ft. swells, winds [30MPH+] at Lake Mead--or your choice--- when your at the Hoover dam and need to get to Calville bay without incident. See Footnote 1:
That virtually eliminated all but the big boys [28ft and above] for me :idea: :idea: as size really does matter.
Respectfully,
KAP
---------
Footnote: In that situation, give me a closed bow V-Bottom and we can still see other parts of the lake while everyone else is running for the ramp.

[RiverDave]

KAP, obviously I don't think anyone would prefer to be in 4 - 6' swells and 30mph winds.. But if your asking which deck I'd be in if I had to be in one?
The one with the biggest bildge pumps and the most life jackets.. Becuase in reality in those kinda conditions it's gonna come down to driver abillity or your probably going down with the ship.
RD

[Kilrtoy]

Nothing close to the E-TICKET
a league of its own

[shippingguy]

KAP, obviously I don't think anyone would prefer to be in 4 - 6' swells and 30mph winds.. But if your asking which deck I'd be in if I had to be in one?
The one with the biggest bildge pumps and the most life jackets.. Becuase in reality in those kinda conditions it's gonna come down to driver abillity or your probably going down with the ship.
RD
I would have to agree. 4'-6' swells is a bit exaggerated if you ask me.
Mike

[rivercrazy]

Nothing close to the E-TICKET
a league of its own
Do they make a special Kilrtoy 4WD model for you yet? That way you can make it through the reeds......

[Froggystyle]

KAP, obviously I don't think anyone would prefer to be in 4 - 6' swells and 30mph winds.. But if your asking which deck I'd be in if I had to be in one?
The one with the biggest bildge pumps and the most life jackets.. Becuase in reality in those kinda conditions it's gonna come down to driver abillity or your probably going down with the ship.
RD
FYI, 4 foot swells and 45 mph winds were what I sent Powerboat out in when they evaluated the boat. Several boats on that list went back on the trailer because the weather was "too rough".
Plus, we have four bilge pumps and 14 lifejackets... ;)

[DCBDaytona]

FYI, 4 foot swells and 45 mph winds were what I sent Powerboat out in when they evaluated the boat. Several boats on that list went back on the trailer because the weather was "too rough".
Plus, we have four bilge pumps and 14 lifejackets... ;)
So explain...what is it that makes your Trident handle the rough SO much better?:o

[RiverDave]

FYI, 4 foot swells and 45 mph winds were what I sent Powerboat out in when they evaluated the boat. Several boats on that list went back on the trailer because the weather was "too rough".
Plus, we have four bilge pumps and 14 lifejackets... ;)
I think we must have a very different way of measuring waves, because a 4' Swell is literally surfable and in seeing the worst that Parker has to offer on many occasions.. I never felt like I could get out the old Boogie Board and ride one down to the casino or anything.
RD

[kap]

KAP, obviously I don't think anyone would prefer to be in 4 - 6' swells and 30mph winds.. But if your asking which deck I'd be in if I had to be in one?
The one with the biggest bildge pumps and the most life jackets.. Becuase in reality in those kinda conditions it's gonna come down to driver abillity or your probably going down with the ship.
RD
RiverDave:
You get the idea for me the definition of rough water is the above---everyone can pick their definition of what rough water is on a lake or river.
I have boated on the ocean for quite some time and 4 foot swells are not cause for alarm neither are 6 foot swells an exaggeration. The larger lakes can be pretty nasty and when it does get bad----I do not like running for the ramp :D .
In 2004, the Laveycraft Regatta was held at Lake Mead during the poker run aspect of the Regatta we encountered 4-6 foot swells and high winds. The big boats were handling it well and the little boats were in fear for their lives some never went past the no wake zone and with good sense not too. I could continue with different scenarios but it would be exhausting.
Safer to say the situation ultimately demanded and required a larger vessel. Hence, the rationale for the choice in which deckboat I would select 28 ft and above. Those that disagree may be owners of smaller vessels or do not envision themselves in such a situation or may lack the experience in those conditions.
I personally would rather be comfortable in a larger vessel than run in a 26footer that is barely able to handle the wakes off of wake board boats. Trust me, I've seen some wakes off of an X-80, twin, that would swallow a 21footer. See also the Footnote in prior post.
In conclusion, the hypothetical situation can be tailored to your needs the premise is what will get you back in a critical situation with minimal fear and white knuckles. I was just trying to come up with a criteria where you could establish a benchmark for selection. Clearly, the criteria I selected would eliminate a lot of deckboats in a rather quick neutral fashion.
KAP
P.S. FYI---- You can surf off of the wake on an X-80 with no rope.

[Froggystyle]

So explain...what is it that makes your Trident handle the rough SO much better?:o
2,000+ pounds less weight, a hydro hull design, 1.25" thick gunwales and bulkheads, nearly zero flex and a nearly 4' freeboard underway. Not to mention the closed bow created by the ramp will prevent stuffing it into waves that every boat mentioned except the E-Ticket (front platform much further out of the water) will clean out your boat for you with.
Near as I can tell, we also have the only boat with an overboard scupper for any water shipped on board. That means that water that ends up IN the boat doesn't go straight to your bilge like in every other boat mentioned. That scupper is also 2" pipe, so it dewaters at a very, very fast rate compared to the 3/8" holes in the sole of some of the craft.
Don't take my word for it... ask someone who has been in the boat in rough water. Chuck (Xtreme22) would be a great example. I took him out in some pretty serious icing on Havasu last winter and close to 50 mph winds at some points. Blew his mind. Todd969 went out with us the same day, but on the gentle side of the island, but was also impressed.
Did you read the Powerboat article about the test and the conditions they went out in?

[rivercrazy]

To me there are various types of rough water.
* Swells are typically more rounded and have longer interval or spacing
* Waves aren't evenly shaped. They are typically more rounded on one side but steep faced on the other.
* Then there is mixed wind chop sloppy stuff. Typcially a mix of the two above.
Some of the toughest stuff I've run in is the mixed stuff. Lake Mohave gets this type of condition with the lake oriented north/south. In the summer the wind blows from the south. This allows some pretty big conditions the further north you go. I've run in 3-5' tightly spaced windchop with winds as little as 30-35mph. Its a challenge for smaller boats. there is only one way to run it - FAST. You got to get on top as much as possible.
I assume Mead has some of the same stuff.
Either way, I wouldn't want to be caught in any deckboat in those conditions. Deep V is the way to go if your out in that stuff.......

[Froggystyle]

Either way, I wouldn't want to be caught in any deckboat in those conditions. Deep V is the way to go if your out in that stuff.......
That is precisely the conditions we are talking about. As Matt Trulio said clearly, 4' waves spaced by nasty holes... the worst conditions they had ever seen on the Colorado River...

[DCBDaytona]

That is precisely the conditions we are talking about. As Matt Trulio said clearly, 4' waves spaced by nasty holes... the worst conditions they had ever seen on the Colorado River...
Still not buying it...

[LAPII]

Don't sales statistics have something to say, or all the deckboat consumers out there not that Howard saavy?

[Froggystyle]

Still not buying it...
Still not worried... :D You haven't been on it, I don't think you have seen one in person, and you apparently don't consider expert review credible.
Can't win them all... ;)

[kap]

Froggystyle wrote:
Not to mention the closed bow created by the ramp will prevent stuffing it into waves that every boat mentioned except the E-Ticket (front platform much further out of the water) will clean out your boat for you with.
Ummm! errrrr! You should look at a Howard it has a hidden door that you pull out and blocks any water intrusion into the vessel. It is a manually operated device but really effective :D :D . A scupper is only necessary if your taking water over the door this seems highly improbable given the freeboard and height of the front door on a Howard.
DCB Daytona----As a manufacturer Froggystyle has a bit of a bias---but only slightly:D :D .
____________________
Back to the Thread question at hand--- the best for me is what I bought--- a Howard which is my bias---however it will suit my needs for the next 10 years and still be in style----in addition to my earlier conclusion anything under 28ft simply doesn't make sense for me.
Check the POLL/ Scoreboard for the Leader :D :D.
I just couldn't help it I had to say that.
KAP
LapII not sure what your trying to say could you expound on your theory. I believe your advocating sales numbers to preference choice????

[Kilrtoy]

Don't sales statistics have something to say, or all the deckboat consumers out there not that Howard saavy?
HELL NO
if that is the case, then bayliner would be first and magic a close second....

[Froggystyle]

Don't sales statistics have something to say, or all the deckboat consumers out there not that Howard saavy?
This poll wasn't about best seller. People buy things for a million reasons. My next car won't be a BMW 750 or an S500 Mercedes, though they have quite a reputation as possibly one of the worlds best automobiles. Ferrari would be in the top two or three for worlds best sports cars etc...
Nobody is going to agree that the Ferrari is the greatest car in the world, or argue that a Mazda Miata is the greatest either... it isn't even close. Different game totally... but if you put the money aspect aside and ask what sports car you would rather have magically appear in your garage... The Ferrari is going to show up a lot more times than a Mazda Miata.
This poll only illustrates what people would buy if money wasn't a factor. Fact is, Mazda sells a lot more Miatas (probably the majority of which to people who would prefer a Ferrari but can't afford it...) than Ferrari sells Modenas, and Howard is in the lead followed by E-Ticket and Trident for that reason.
You settle for what you can afford for a million reasons, and you dream about what you can't. The greatest thing about this market is that the difference isn't as profound as in the Mazda/Ferrari example. The lowest price deck on that list is 85K, and the highest priced one is $150K, but with twin engines. Comparably equipped, they are all within 10K of each other in fact.
I have never seen the ability to go from essentially entry level to world-class in less than double the price. Miatas are $30K... Ferraris are $250K, more than 8 times more expensive.
I don't want to drive a truck... but I have to for now. I wouldn't be buying a Mini for Audrey were I able to buy a Bentley GT, but I can't, so the order is for the Mini. That doesn't mean I consider the Mini to be a better car than the Bentley by any stretch... just what I have settled for today.
It is frankly what is confusing to me about this poll. Trying to put myself outside of the industry, I can't understand the votes for boats that clearly aren't in the league of others in the poll.
If the poll was for sports cars and the field ranged from Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, TVR, Corvette, Lotus, Ford Mustang, Mazda Miata, Ford GT40, and Porsche... I would be hugely surprised to see anyone pick a Mazda, Mustang or a Corvette. We might like them and own them... but nobody is dull enough to think that this criteria alone makes them a better sports car.

[LAPII]

Let me expound, quite often here on the forums we hear about the Magic regatta in the channel on any given weekend. So I would think, one would give all of those consumers/buyers a benefit of the doubt and think that they did some research in their big dollar purchase (cuz we all know deckboats are not cheap by any means). Not taking away from Howard or Trident definitely QUALITY builds. Re-reading the topic, don't we as consumers TEND to lean towards the best product out on the market? Lexus and BMW (luxury sedans), Blackberry/Treo (smartphones), BFgoodrich (Tires) , and of course DELL (CPU's) mind you those are sales number examples of better made quality products in their given area, anyway maybe that makes it a little clearer or maybe not.

[LAPII]

HELL NO
if that is the case, then bayliner would be first and magic a close second....
I believe JD Power doesn't rate Bayliners as top selling production boat. I believe it's Chaparral. Magic didn't treat you right as potential buyer, so you are biased if I remember correctly.

[Froggystyle]

Re-reading the topic, don't we as consumers TEND to lean towards the best product out on the market?
I would say no... we lean towards the best that is within our means, and possibly the best of that group that suits our specific needs. Different animal entirely.
Lexus and BMW (luxury sedans), Blackberry/Treo (smartphones), BFgoodrich (Tires) , and of course DELL (CPU's) mind you those are sales number examples of better made quality products in their given area, anyway maybe that makes it a little clearer or maybe not.
Lexus and BMW are HUGELY outsold by Honda and Toyota. The Blackberry/Treo is probably 1% of cell phone sales... if that.
Dell computers probably have a 10% or less hold on the industry as well. You just named three specific areas in which the brands you posted are crushed in a pure volume-sold criteria by cheaper, lower quality brands.

[Phat Matt]

I would have to agree. 4'-6' swells is a bit exaggerated if you ask me.
Mike
Ask That Guy and Mrs. That Guy (Steve and Denise) if they have ever been in those conditions. :D
After I quit skipping over the top of them and absolutely launched it, I pointed the nose in the air and surfed those mofos back. :D Winds were a bit more than 30 also.

[ChumpChange]

It is frankly what is confusing to me about this poll. Trying to put myself outside of the industry, I can't understand the votes for boats that clearly aren't in the league of others in the poll.
Nobody has voted for NEXT yet. :eek: :D

[kap]

Not enough info on NEXT.
Nor have I ever even seen one---- well I take that back I think I saw one briefly at th LA boat show but there were a lot of boats at the show cannot recall.
___________
LAPII
The theory is sound---- numbers equal preference of buyers given the total number of dollars spent on their respective purchase. If your theory is correct then the poll should be heavily in favor of Magic which it is not. The only conclusion, is the current owner may have one---- but wished they had a Howard:D :D .
I'm no statistician but the latter seems more in line with the poll results.
I have heard a lot of choices just not a lot of why's from owners.
JD Powers--- Hmmmm.....I did not consult that reference guide when purchasing any of my boats :eek: :eek: .
KAP

[Froggystyle]

Not enough info on NEXT.
Nor have I ever even seen one---- well I take that back I think I saw one briefly at th LA boat show but there were a lot of boats at the show cannot recall.
That doesn't explain it either. We only have three boats on the water (soon to be four), never hit LA and have only had a Quick Take article written about us in the mags. Next has more than 10 boats on the water, several reviews and puts up some good numbers...
The answer is that lots of boats' owners posted that theirs is the greatest just rooting for the home team. DCB hasn't gotten many votes because I think it is clear that the current boat isn't really a deck, but more of a open bow sport boat, like some others in the poll.
Not a lot of people own Next boats, only one on this forum that I know of, so you won't get the home team advantage playing a role. I am sure that I am capitalizing on good will from forum members I know, but the word is getting out there about our boat and so far it is pretty solid from what I get back. Plus, I am pretty sure that the one member on the board that has a Next voted for us... ;)
Thanks for everyone who supported us, or E-Ticket for that matter. I think collectively Trident and E-Ticket are the best built, best designed decks on the market and look forward to gaining enough momentum to come out on top of one of these polls someday.
Thanks again...

[Havasu1986]

That doesn't explain it either. We only have three boats on the water (soon to be four), never hit LA and have only had a Quick Take article written about us in the mags. Next has more than 10 boats on the water, several reviews and puts up some good numbers...
Thanks for everyone who supported us, or E-Ticket for that matter. I think collectively Trident and E-Ticket are the best built, best designed decks on the market and look forward to gaining enough momentum to come out on top of one of these polls someday. Thanks again...
pssssttt....Your in 2nd right now. :D :D

[Froggystyle]

pssssttt....Your in 2nd right now. :D :D
But I don't have enough money to bribe 16 more people... I already had to take the other half of the Rickrollers that Matt didn't get for E-ticket and put them on the dole... ;)
EDIT: I see what you mean now... We must have just pulled ahead in the last couple of minutes. I'll know who it was when the debit comes through on the credit card I guess... :D

[Havasu1986]

But I don't have enough money to bribe 16 more people... I already had to take the other half of the Rickrollers that Matt didn't get for E-ticket and put them on the dole... ;)
EDIT: I see what you mean now... We must have just pulled ahead in the last couple of minutes. I'll know who it was when the debit comes through on the credit card I guess... :D
Then buy 16 more computers..;)

[Froggystyle]

Then buy 16 more computers..;)
:idea: Hadn't thought of that... technically I can log in from my cell phone... Audrey can log in from... :D

[DCBDaytona]

Still not worried... :D You haven't been on it, I don't think you have seen one in person, and you apparently don't consider expert review credible.
Can't win them all... ;)
I've seen the Trident plenty of times in Havasu...as a matter of fact, I should dig up the thread where you challenged your "Twin Jet Drive TT Motor" ;) Trident against my Mach in acceleration/planing time. Too Funny. Maybe it was the acceleration of that beast that....nevermind. :D
I actually think it was myself and a couple others that recommended a real "drive" from scratch.

[Jbb]

Trident Custom Boats.....#1!

[Froggystyle]

I've seen the Trident plenty of times in Havasu...as a matter of fact, I should dig up the thread where you challenged your "Twin Jet Drive TT Motor" ;) Trident against my Mach in acceleration/planing time. Too Funny. Maybe it was the acceleration of that beast that....nevermind. :D
Well, I would still take the Pepsi challenge on that one, if I still had any TT Dual jets on the water. I would think it would be pretty embarrassing to even have the contest be close for you considering you have a 22 foot boat with twin outboards against a 27' Deckboat loaded with a huge stereo and everything...
That package accellerated like NOTHING I have ever been in, including my blown 19' Daytona jet. It just flat hauled the mail from 0-60. That was pretty much it though, and I had to kank the program when we just didn't get top end figures to match the bottom end figures.

[Havasu1986]

:idea: Hadn't thought of that... technically I can log in from my cell phone... Audrey can log in from... :D
3 more votes for Wes..;)

[fuzz]

y'all have to admit all those deckboats out there in the last few years are all clones of each other. Kudos to Trident for trying to break that mold. I think Advantage recently did it with their x-flight. Its all about trying to keep the wives happy with amenities while still being able to safely haul some butt...

[Kilrtoy]

I believe JD Power doesn't rate Bayliners as top selling production boat. I believe it's Chaparral. Magic didn't treat you right as potential buyer, so you are biased if I remember correctly.
DAMN that is a DAMN good memory.
BUt I finally rode in a few and they did me a GREAT SERVICE albeit at the time I thought it was a great dis-service at the time...

[ChumpChange]

So who were the four that voted for DCB? Current DCB owners? :idea:

[USCFAN]

So who were the four that voted for DCB? Current DCB owners? :idea:
Is there any doubt?

[USCFAN]

So who were the four that voted for DCB? Current DCB owners? :idea:
Is there any doubt?

[Lightning]

I thought that this thread deserved a bump....

[Uniqueperformancewest]

E-ticket is my vote and everyone who says that its kind of a bad comparison because of it being a twin and a more expensive boat. All I have to say is wait til the LA Boat Show when we bring out the E-ticket 26 then you all can really shit your pants, and then after you wash your shorts you can pick one up haha.
John

[DeltaSigBoater]

Hallett has my vote :D

[Lightning]

I wonder how this poll would look if it was polling people who DON'T own deckboats but wanted to buy one. Do you think the numbers would be much different?

[mbrown2]

I wonder how this poll would look if it was polling people who DON'T own deckboats but wanted to buy one. Do you think the numbers would be much different?
Yes, I think it would look different because 16% of people who are buying custom deckboats are not buying Tridents...I think the stats don't come close to representing the real purchasing stats of custom deckboats....IMO

[plaster dave]

Congrats Gene and Mike on winning the deck boat challenge! 7 weeks and still the clear winner.:D

[Not Allways A Deck]

Congrats Gene and Mike on winning the deck boat challenge! 7 weeks and still the clear winner.:D
Yea,they used to say how deck boats suck for the first several years on the market now thats what pays the bills!!! OH and how many cats do they build a year? PLASTER DAVES MIGHT BE A COLLECTORS ITEM!!! still fast though.:mad:

[hotlavey]

Hallett has my vote :D
Mine too- It was initially designed as a deck boat and is not a converted cat like some of the others(not next or trident for sure).

[Lightning]

Mine too- It was initially designed as a deck boat and is not a converted cat like some of the others(not next or trident for sure).
Would the design of the running surface change a lot if it's not a coverted cat? Look at it this way, would Next or Trident alter the bottom of their boats if they eventually offered it in a Cat style? I don't know much about boat design, but I guess the weight and balance point of the hull would change. So do you move the steps around, push the helm forward a little? or is it even worth it? I can't imagine it would change things a whole lot.

[little rowe boat]

[QUOTE=Not Allways A Deck;2826004] now thats what pays the bills!!! QUOTE]
I don't know about that. Last time I checked they did not even have one in the mold.

[ChumpChange]

I don't know about that. Last time I checked they did not even have one in the mold.
In the last ***boat I think Howard stated that it is their most ordered model at this time which means.......it pays the bills.

[DeltaSigBoater]

Would the design of the running surface change a lot if it's not a coverted cat? Look at it this way, would Next or Trident alter the bottom of their boats if they eventually offered it in a Cat style? I don't know much about boat design, but I guess the weight and balance point of the hull would change. So do you move the steps around, push the helm forward a little? or is it even worth it? I can't imagine it would change things a whole lot.
I’m sure I’ll be corrected if wrong…
The way I understand it is that Next, Hallett, & Trident designed their hulls as “Air Entrapment Hulls” solely for the purpose of being a deck boat.
Not slamming any builder, but why a builder would opt for a Cat Hull is to cut down on the costs and space of having different molds, not to mention all the components that go into a boat; fuel tanks, cables, controls, trailers, etc. This way the builder can offer 2 models of the same size using the same hull mold, and cater to 2 different types of buyers. Only differences are the decks.

[Lightning]

anyone else have an opinion? And while we're talking boat design. Is there some sort of formula about the placement of steps on a hull? Weight & length determine distance? or ????

[Strippoker]

anyone else have an opinion? And while we're talking boat design. Is there some sort of formula about the placement of steps on a hull? Weight & length determine distance? or ????
this isn't the best formula but kind of explains the "No Brainer" of why most deck boat hulls are the shape they are.
http://www.rcwarships.com/rcwarships/nwc/stability.html

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Never hear anyone gripeing about their Ultra.
Nice customer experience when designing it and delivery too.
Great color and interior options,,
Gotta go with a winner.

[Strippoker]

Never hear anyone gripeing about their Ultra.
Nice customer experience when designing it and delivery too.
Great color and interior options,,
Gotta go with a winner.
wait tell the LA Show we have some serious shockers coming.

[plaster dave]

Yea,they used to say how deck boats suck for the first several years on the market now thats what pays the bills!!! OH and how many cats do they build a year? PLASTER DAVES MIGHT BE A COLLECTORS ITEM!!! still fast though.:mad:
I still say I will put my Howard next to ANY OF 26' CAT in 2'-3' chop and just Laugh at them when I dont see them anymore. :D

[mbrown2]

Had a chance to attend the Trident Regatta this past weekend (aka...its Froggy's bro's wedding, so take up all the parking at foxes with Tridents)..:).
All joking aside....although the boat still has the same basic shape, layout and principals as the initial designs, Froggy and team have been tweaking along the way...just all the little things that get tweaked with each boat that comes out to make it better then the prior...placement of items, floor surfaces, billet here and there......refinement is the same sort of thing I always liked about DCB...
One of the Trident's slogans was sharpening the cutting edge (i think); well they are living up to that motto...
Very nice boats on display this weekend.!:)

[Strippoker]

We're taking two 26 decks to the absolute this weekend anyone wants to check them out PM before friday. One with a 525 and one with a 496. shuold be on the water most of the day saturday shooting pics.

[Froggystyle]

Had a chance to attend the Trident Regatta this past weekend (aka...its Froggy's bro's wedding, so take up all the parking at foxes with Tridents)..:).
Hey now... we had a Regatta... we threw a luau for it and it just happens my brother got married before it started... :D
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40880&stc=1&d=1192063412
All joking aside....although the boat still has the same basic shape, layout and principals as the initial designs, Froggy and team have been tweaking along the way...just all the little things that get tweaked with each boat that comes out to make it better then the prior...placement of items, floor surfaces, billet here and there......refinement is the same sort of thing I always liked about DCB...
One of the Trident's slogans was sharpening the cutting edge (i think); well they are living up to that motto...
Very nice boats on display this weekend.!:)
Thanks Mike. We had a blast getting to see you, and I wish we could have hung out a little bit more. I figured you would have had a bitchin Schiada on the dock though with all of them going by. If you did, I didn't see it. We were after all taking up all of the parking. ;)
Ran some good numbers too. The 496HO boat got a 74 with light fuel and a non-labbed 26 on it. We were on the limiter too, but a lab 28 brought us way down in revs... so we may need something built for the boat. Either way, it is on it's way to Tennessee right now. I am flying out on Friday.
They are coming right along. We are like the energizer bunny... just keep on going!
See you all in Tennessee!

[Strippoker]

this is one of the 2 we will have on the water I will post more recent pics tomorrow when its done getting detailed. For those of you that are in to stereos make sure you stop by to see the system on this deck its amazing. The neighbors are getting use to us setting off the alarms when we show it off.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/web113.jpg

[mbrown2]

http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40880&stc=1&d=1192063412
I figured you would have had a bitchin Schiada on the dock though with all of them going by. If you did, I didn't see it. We were after all taking up all of the parking. ;)
Great numbers with the power...I left the boat in storage...too windy on Thur and Friday and I felt like crap on Saturday so just auto'd it down to Foxes..
The Tridents looked great...great pic!

[FlyingSquirrel]

:D I vote Next! I will throw my 2 cents in for what it is worth because I own a Next but I have to say everything about it is top of the line. I looked at Shockwave, Ultra, Cobra Magic and a few other not on the list. In the end I went with Next, the look and performance are awesome.
http://www.refreshstudios.com/images/boat/flyingsquirrel.jpg
If you have not seen them take a look http://www.nextcustomboats.com

[Singleton]

My vote was for Ultra.
However I have to ask:
If 30 peeps voted for Trident, why have they not sold more?
Something is driving everybody else to different boats. If you like the boat so much, give the business to Trident and not somebody else.
Also the numbers on the 496 are lower then expected. I thought the hull would perform better with a 496 then it did. Thought this Trident hull was supposed to out perform everything when equal power is in the boat. Looks like it performs the same, unless you put some large power in it.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Not slamming any builder, but why a builder would opt for a Cat Hull is to cut down on the costs and space of having different molds, not to mention all the components that go into a boat; fuel tanks, cables, controls, trailers, etc. This way the builder can offer 2 models of the same size using the same hull mold, and cater to 2 different types of buyers. Only differences are the decks.
I know that the Howard Sportdeck is not simply a new deck on their cat bottom. Rather it is a derivative of the same.
Mike Willen spent over a year working on the Sportdeck. First thing he did was stretch the bottom from the original 26’ length to a new length of 28’6”. The new bottom was then placed on a round beam on the shop floor to find the new balance point (center of gravity). This was very important in determining the weight distribution. Once Mike found balance point he was able to simulate the engine weight, fuel tank weight and passenger weight and see how all of this affected the balance of the hull. Mike then deepened the sponsons in an order to accommodate the additional freeboard that was added. The angle of entry at the bow was sharpened and changed to increase the wave piercing effect which results in a softer entry producing a smoother drier ride in rough water. Another nice thing is that Mike incorporated the bow walk off area as part of the new bottom and deck molds so the walk off is actually molded into both the top and bottom of the boat, not just bolted on. This creates a “unitized body” and is one of the reasons why the Howard is as strong and rattle free as it is.
Mike further fine-tuned the bottom by increasing the opening in the step and relocated the step to allow for more air-flow, resulting in greater air entrapment which uses the compressed air between the water and the bottom of the hull as a hydraulic arm lifting the boat without having to trim the drive, therefore keeping the boat level and increasing hull efficiency.
Additionally, the bottom from the step aft was completely redesigned including changing the height of the transom notch to allow for higher drive heights which result in greater top end speeds. The dead rise angle of the bottom at this point was also changed.
Howard also changed the whole lamination process was changed from the Cat. In order to keep weight at a minimum and strength at a maximum, a fully composite hull and deck lamination schedule was developed. A complete fiberglass inner liner was designed and more than a dozen separate molds are used in the build process.
As I said, all of this was in development for over a year before Howard even popped the first deckboat from the mold. So, not all deckboats are just a new deck on an existing cat bottom. The Howard 28 Sportdeck is in essence a whole new hull with completely separate molds from the Howard 26 cat. This is what I was able to learn while ours was being built.

[Nord]

:D I vote Next! I will throw my 2 cents in for what it is worth because I own a Next but I have to say everything about it is top of the line. I looked at Shockwave, Ultra, Cobra Magic and a few other not on the list. In the end I went with Next, the look and performance are awesome.
http://www.refreshstudios.com/images/boat/flyingsquirrel.jpg
If you have not seen them take a look http://www.nextcustomboats.com
Flying Squirrel...............You wouldn't happen to be related to Bob would you?

[FlyingSquirrel]

Nord - no on in my family named Bob? Why do you ask?:confused:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I know that the Howard Sportdeck is not simply a new deck on their cat bottom. Rather it is a derivative of the same.
Mike Willen spent over a year working on the Sportdeck. First thing he did was stretch the bottom from the original 26’ length to a new length of 28’6”. The new bottom was then placed on a round beam on the shop floor to find the new balance point (center of gravity). This was very important in determining the weight distribution. Once Mike found balance point he was able to simulate the engine weight, fuel tank weight and passenger weight and see how all of this affected the balance of the hull. Mike then deepened the sponsons in an order to accommodate the additional freeboard that was added. The angle of entry at the bow was sharpened and changed to increase the wave piercing effect which results in a softer entry producing a smoother drier ride in rough water. Another nice thing is that Mike incorporated the bow walk off area as part of the new bottom and deck molds so the walk off is actually molded into both the top and bottom of the boat, not just bolted on. This creates a “unitized body” and is one of the reasons why the Howard is as strong and rattle free as it is.
Mike further fine-tuned the bottom by increasing the opening in the step and relocated the step to allow for more air-flow, resulting in greater air entrapment which uses the compressed air between the water and the bottom of the hull as a hydraulic arm lifting the boat without having to trim the drive, therefore keeping the boat level and increasing hull efficiency.
Additionally, the bottom from the step aft was completely redesigned including changing the height of the transom notch to allow for higher drive heights which result in greater top end speeds. The dead rise angle of the bottom at this point was also changed.
Howard also changed the whole lamination process was changed from the Cat. In order to keep weight at a minimum and strength at a maximum, a fully composite hull and deck lamination schedule was developed. A complete fiberglass inner liner was designed and more than a dozen separate molds are used in the build process.
As I said, all of this was in development for over a year before Howard even popped the first deckboat from the mold. So, not all deckboats are just a new deck on an existing cat bottom. The Howard 28 Sportdeck is in essence a whole new hull with completely separate molds from the Howard 26 cat. This is what I was able to learn while ours was being built.
Scott,
No doubt many of the reasons that Howard leads the rest. Howard has always been at the top, with regard to quality. :)

[Froggystyle]

My vote was for Ultra.
However I have to ask:
If 30 peeps voted for Trident, why have they not sold more?
Frankly, I am having a tough time helping them move the boats they currently own. I have a minimum of eight people right now who have chosen Trident as their next boat already, but need to sell theirs first. Down market... do the math.
Something is driving everybody else to different boats. If you like the boat so much, give the business to Trident and not somebody else.
The sentiment is appreciated but debatable... I have only lost two clients that were really, really interested. One was to Shockwave and a boat price that was $30K smaller and the other was to Advantage for a similar reason. No question about our quality, but just didn't want to swing the extra cost.
Also the numbers on the 496 are lower then expected. I thought the hull would perform better with a 496 then it did.
Frankly, so did we. The boat still is running quite a bit faster than any other 496 at the ***boat evaluation, and according to many folks who have tested a LOT of different decks in real world conditions... none are hitting 74 loaded with audio and many of the features ours has.
Another aspect is just plain efficiency. Our hull hasn't really started to work yet in the mid 70's, so we are leaving a lot on the table. We will be testing one soon without the huge audio system (500# for the subs, box, amp and batteries) and we will see the 80's almost for sure. Would have been nice as well to have a shorty lower on there for testing as the "X" is WAY down on this boat, but the price point had to be met, so the short lower was not optioned.
Thought this Trident hull was supposed to out perform everything when equal power is in the boat. Looks like it performs the same, unless you put some large power in it.
Again, under the same conditions we were 9 mph faster than a Magic deck with a 496 that was next to us and about the same faster than a Conquest also parked with us. I asked many, many people what they were getting for real numbers out of their 496HO powered decks and most conceded that they were in the low to mid 60's given a light load and perfect conditions. Considering the audio system load, anchors, fenders, front ramp etc... I would say that we do out-perform the other boats with equal power, even with the 496... but we definitely have a MUCH larger advantage when you put an Ilmor in the boat. The hull does seem to like a bit more power, and will make the most of your investment in a larger motor.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Frankly, I am having a tough time helping them move the boats they currently own. I have a minimum of eight people right now who have chosen Trident as their next boat already, but need to sell theirs first. Down market... do the math.
The sentiment is appreciated but debatable... I have only lost two clients that were really, really interested. One was to Shockwave and a boat price that was $30K smaller and the other was to Advantage for a similar reason. No question about our quality, but just didn't want to swing the extra cost.
Frankly, so did we. The boat still is running quite a bit faster than any other 496 at the ***boat evaluation, and according to many folks who have tested a LOT of different decks in real world conditions... none are hitting 74 loaded with audio and many of the features ours has.
Another aspect is just plain efficiency. Our hull hasn't really started to work yet in the mid 70's, so we are leaving a lot on the table. We will be testing one soon without the huge audio system (500# for the subs, box, amp and batteries) and we will see the 80's almost for sure. Would have been nice as well to have a shorty lower on there for testing as the "X" is WAY down on this boat, but the price point had to be met, so the short lower was not optioned.
Again, under the same conditions we were 9 mph faster than a Magic deck with a 496 that was next to us and about the same faster than a Conquest also parked with us. I asked many, many people what they were getting for real numbers out of their 496HO powered decks and most conceded that they were in the low to mid 60's given a light load and perfect conditions. Considering the audio system load, anchors, fenders, front ramp etc... I would say that we do out-perform the other boats with equal power, even with the 496... but we definitely have a MUCH larger advantage when you put an Ilmor in the boat. The hull does seem to like a bit more power, and will make the most of your investment in a larger motor.
Wes,
I'm sure your HO speed numbers will improve with the reduction of weight. From my experience, weight is a large factor with a cat or tunnel until the point of serious lift, which doesn't seem to occur until about 80. IMO, 74 is a damn good number for a stock HO, 28 ft loaded with audio. Also, you might want to give a Merc labbed 28 a shot. Not sure what Merc does to these props but I have seen some unexpectedly good results with mine.
John M

[Not Allways A Deck]

I think this is the best deal on the market now!$80k=DONE!!!!!!!:D take this for a ride and post your thoughts.call me for details 661-607-2447:sqeyes:

[RiverToysJas]

Another aspect is just plain efficiency. Our hull hasn't really started to work yet in the mid 70's, so we are leaving a lot on the table.
Wes, Are you saying the bottom is not really working at speeds below 70? If so, wouldn't it be better to re-design the bottom for peak efficiency in the mph range where most people boat, most of the time (40-60)?
RTJas :D

[Jbb]

Frankly, I am having a tough time helping them move the boats they currently own. I have a minimum of eight people right now who have chosen Trident as their next boat already, but need to sell theirs first. Down market... do the math.
Did these two enjoy the test ride?....
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41246&stc=1&d=1192581178

[Froggystyle]

Wes, Are you saying the bottom is not really working at speeds below 70? If so, wouldn't it be better to re-design the bottom for peak efficiency in the mph range where most people boat, most of the time (40-60)?
RTJas :D
Kind of. We are still getting nearly 2.8 mpg with this setup. It works really, really well between 40-60, and as anyone who has ridden in the 96 powered Trident can attest, it certainly does kick you in the ass with response in that range.
What I mean is, the bottom doesn't begin to have the significant speed advantage below 80 or so.
Still holeshots with little or no bowrise, rolls inside on turns, eats up chop, runs efficiently and buoyantly and is absolutely effortless to drive. For many people who could care less about a 90 mph top speed, the HO may be the answer for them. As I mentioned, I don't know of a single deck on the market running in the 70's loaded with audio and equipment on a stock lower and prop.

[Froggystyle]

Did these two enjoy the test ride?....
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41246&stc=1&d=1192581178
She tried to get me to buy a bible from them.

[Jbb]

She tried to get me to buy a bible from them.
I would not trust her...

[Froggystyle]

I would not trust her...
Greasy...

[RiverToysJas]

As I mentioned, I don't know of a single deck on the market running in the 70's loaded with audio and equipment on a stock lower and prop.
No doubt. I would bet there is not another 28' boat period that is hitting low-mid 70's with an HO under "normal" conditions (certainly not v's - I don't much about cats). I know a lot people w/ 25's claim it too...but I'm not drinking their cool-aid either. :D
RTJas :D

[Uniqueperformancewest]

Heres some new stuff from E-ticket.
Thanks John

[Strippoker]

quick pic from this last weekend this boat is beyond breathe taking in person
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/web212.jpg

[NEXT1]

Check out something all new !www.nextcustomboats.com/gallery/album5/large/5.6.7.jpgwww.nextcustomboats.com

[ChumpChange]

Check out something all new !www.nextcustomboats.com/gallery/album5/large/5.6.7.jpgwww.nextcustomboats.com
You got anything else to say?:rolleyes:

[DILLIGAF]

I know that the Howard Sportdeck is not simply a new deck on their cat bottom. Rather it is a derivative of the same.
Mike Willen spent over a year working on the Sportdeck. First thing he did was stretch the bottom from the original 26’ length to a new length of 28’6”. The new bottom was then placed on a round beam on the shop floor to find the new balance point (center of gravity). This was very important in determining the weight distribution. Once Mike found balance point he was able to simulate the engine weight, fuel tank weight and passenger weight and see how all of this affected the balance of the hull. Mike then deepened the sponsons in an order to accommodate the additional freeboard that was added. The angle of entry at the bow was sharpened and changed to increase the wave piercing effect which results in a softer entry producing a smoother drier ride in rough water. Another nice thing is that Mike incorporated the bow walk off area as part of the new bottom and deck molds so the walk off is actually molded into both the top and bottom of the boat, not just bolted on. This creates a “unitized body” and is one of the reasons why the Howard is as strong and rattle free as it is.
Mike further fine-tuned the bottom by increasing the opening in the step and relocated the step to allow for more air-flow, resulting in greater air entrapment which uses the compressed air between the water and the bottom of the hull as a hydraulic arm lifting the boat without having to trim the drive, therefore keeping the boat level and increasing hull efficiency.
Additionally, the bottom from the step aft was completely redesigned including changing the height of the transom notch to allow for higher drive heights which result in greater top end speeds. The dead rise angle of the bottom at this point was also changed.
Howard also changed the whole lamination process was changed from the Cat. In order to keep weight at a minimum and strength at a maximum, a fully composite hull and deck lamination schedule was developed. A complete fiberglass inner liner was designed and more than a dozen separate molds are used in the build process.
As I said, all of this was in development for over a year before Howard even popped the first deckboat from the mold. So, not all deckboats are just a new deck on an existing cat bottom. The Howard 28 Sportdeck is in essence a whole new hull with completely separate molds from the Howard 26 cat. This is what I was able to learn while ours was being built.
That is an excellant informed post.....

[Luki]

As i am reading here and in much other posts about the Trident, it seems to be a good Deckboat. What i would not feel comfortable with is, that the deck is very shallow! When seating, half of the body is outside of the boat, and that gives not a secure feeling in it...the beam is very small too...i absolutely cannot imagine driving it with 14 people...
And my opinion is, that weight is important only, to get the boat quickly to plane. After that, weight is not important. Much more important are the planing-abilities...or am i wrong?

[NashvilleBound]

Wes was out here in TN and we went to take it for a spin. I was completely shocked as to how good its hole shot was, much less the top end, for the 496HO. When Wes told me it was that motor I was like "Boorrrrring"...... but it was cool. I can only imagine a 625 or 700..... thing would be insane.... It handled the little chop we encountered perfectly and leaned into the turns as it should. I would feel comfortable driving it in anything I would take my Magic in. I look forward to the next one delivered out here with more power!!!! They will have a hard time getting me out from behind the wheel..... well....... they can try ;)
The stereo.... wheww..... thing ROCKS!!

[phebus]

The Trident is a very comfortable, secure riding boat. I went out with Wes on a day that was really blowing with some really big rollers. Boat got right on top and made it a smooth dry ride. I sat all around the boat in different seats, and never felt anything but safe.

[NEXT1]

OK, there has been some talk about deckboat performance.So i thought i would see if there is any deck tested with 496 HO in print in any mag that can even come close to 74.9 that Next posted in PB Dec 06, or the 109.3 with Teague 800 Next posted in PB in there 100 mph roundup issue.I am sure
if you care to look you will find quite a few mfg tested with equal powerplants.www.nextcustomboats.com

[ChumpChange]

OK, there has been some talk about deckboat performance.So i thought i would see if there is any deck tested with 496 HO in print in any mag that can even come close to 74.9 that Next posted in PB Dec 06, or the 109.3 with Teague 800 Next posted in PB in there 100 mph roundup issue.I am sure
if you care to look you will find quite a few mfg tested with equal powerplants.www.nextcustomboats.com
Are you going to have a conversation or just SPAM the boat. Do you work for them?

[NEXT1]

Well just got off the phone with Wes. He was XXXXX don't you know you can't come on here and just toss Next, and gave me some advice.And for Wes I thank you, to you guys i am new here. So sorry for the spam. Guess i'll start over. Did anyone out there know Wes can sing better than he can build a boat?

[ChumpChange]

Well just got off the phone with Wes. He was XXXXX don't you know you can't come on here and just toss Next, and gave me some advice.And for Wes I thank you, to you guys i am new here. So sorry for the spam. Guess i'll start over. Did anyone out there know Wes can sing better than he can build a boat?
Well if you own a NEXT, tell us about it, which one and bla bla bla. Why you think it's good and all that other stuff. Don't just give the one liners....it's makes you look like the builder and doesn't do much else.
Although Wes is a builder and throws out Trident, there are many other things he does on these boards.

[Lavey29]

I think there are a lot of nice deck boats on the market now but most of them look and perform very similar depending on size and options. Judging from everything that I have ready and personally looked at, the Trident is the most innovative boat out there right now and the fastest. It has a very trick infused resin manufacturing process which accounts for a very light significantly stronger boat that equates to speed. Every option and then some is included with the boat and Wes seems like the most straight up honest guy to deal with as far as boat sales are concerned. I would match a Trident up with any other deck out there and bet it would out perform the other boat in speed, handling and options but this is just my opinion based on things that I have read and learned from other boaters on here.

[newmexico]

Lets see some pics of these Howards that are winning the poll!!!!!!

[Froggystyle]

Well just got off the phone with Wes. He was XXXXX don't you know you can't come on here and just toss Next, and gave me some advice.And for Wes I thank you, to you guys i am new here. So sorry for the spam. Guess i'll start over. Did anyone out there know Wes can sing better than he can build a boat?
Don't worry about it Brent... this place has a really short memory.
***boaters... this is Brent. Brent... these are the ***boaters...
Brent and I have become freinds over the course of the last year or so, and I wish him all of the luck in the world. The Next is a really nice boat, with some great features. I am happy to be back to back with him against an entire industry as new innovators and would have no problem calling him for advice for any reason.
This is a tough enough market out there. He isn't as spooled up on the whole internet savvy thing as many are around here, so let's cut him a break and welcome him to the community.
This is the best group of folks I have ever been part of, and many played a huge role in getting the Trident to market. It has, to a large degree been borne of the forums, and even with as many posts as I have on here and being one of the first members... I still step on my dick pretty regularly when it comes to over-promoting on here.
So, please give a warm round of applause for Next1 you guys. The forums benefit hugely any time you get another manufacturer willing to come on here and hang it out, so let's do our best to show him the in's and outs.
Wes

[ChumpChange]

***boaters... this is Brent. Brent... these are the ***boaters...
Ahhhhhhh, so it is Brent.

[Froggystyle]

Ahhhhhhh, so it is Brent.
Yes... and he is older than he looks.... ;)

[drejustice]

OK, there has been some talk about deckboat performance.So i thought i would see if there is any deck tested with 496 HO in print in any mag that can even come close to 74.9 that Next posted in PB Dec 06, or the 109.3 with Teague 800 Next posted in PB in there 100 mph roundup issue.I am sure
if you care to look you will find quite a few mfg tested with equal powerplants.
I guess that'll do wonders for being able to get insured with the standard insurance carriers :sqeyes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What's the best Deckboat? I think it all depends on what you want out of it and what you need. Each has it advantages and disadvantages and with us being on the East Coast, we had additional criteria.
What was I looking for? Easy of obtaining insurance, Safe, Strong, reputable builder with long proven record, the ability to customize for some of our needs, friendly, responsive, and above all else CUSTOMER SERVICE.
For us Ultra met that mark. Their after the sale customer service has been great considering we 3000 miles away. Let's just say Ultra has taken care of any issue that popped up. Maybe that's not important to some but for me when I spent those $$$ on a boat I wanted peace of mind.
If anyone has specific questions concern our Ultra purchase or customizations, feel free to pm me or look at some of our previous posts.

[Luki]

Looking at the NEXT, i'm wondering how it handles with 6 or 8 people in the Lounges...:confused:
Why do they never test the boats loaded with 8, 10, or 12 people ??? I mean, these are Deckboats...

[RiverOtter]

what brand :idea:
quick pic from this last weekend this boat is beyond breathe taking in person
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/web212.jpg

[voodoomedman]

what brand :idea:
That there is an Ultra

[RiverOtter]

That there is an Ultra
Nice, where's the badge?

[voodoomedman]

Nice, where's the badge?
Either that's a water test and it's not on yet or the customer had them leave it off or pulled it off. Ultra only uses stickers for that so there is no damage to the gel should the customer want it taken off.

[Singleton]

Nice, where's the badge?
That was a customer delivery I helped with last weekend. The owner lives in New Mexico. The customer did not want and badges on the boat.

[RiverOtter]

That was a customer delivery I helped with last weekend. The owner lives in New Mexico. The customer did not want and badges on the boat.
I like it :)

[catman-do]

E-ticket is the shiznit!

[NEXT1]

In responce to how the boat does with 6-8 persons in the lounges.Well labor day i seemed to have became a water taxi. At times had as many as 13 persons aboard. Of course any boat of that size tunnel or vee is not at it happiest.

[Phat Matt]

I still step on my dick pretty regularly when it comes to over-promoting on here.
Wes
C'mon Wes, it's deck, you step on your deck. :D

[Strippoker]

Nice, where's the badge?
As singleton said He didn't have us put the badges on due to he has custom ones that he had made for the boat. They should be on the boat real soon the new stickers are beyond sweet looking he showed us one when we dropped the boat off.

[Froggystyle]

Looking at the NEXT, i'm wondering how it handles with 6 or 8 people in the Lounges...:confused:
Why do they never test the boats loaded with 8, 10, or 12 people ??? I mean, these are Deckboats...
Powerboat Magazine does... it will be in March, and we can't wait. As Phat Matt can attest, here is our boat, completely loaded running 75 with a 550 on the Poker Run weekend this year on the way down to our designated party spot across from BML basically...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3135&g2_serialNumber=2
This was the crew before we started running...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3027&g2_serialNumber=2
And at the raft up...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3131&g2_serialNumber=2

[Jbb]

Powerboat Magazine does... it will be in March, and we can't wait. As Phat Matt can attest, here is our boat, completely loaded running 75 with a 550 on the Poker Run weekend this year on the way down to our designated party spot across from BML basically...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3135&g2_serialNumber=2
This was the crew before we started running...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3027&g2_serialNumber=2
And at the raft up...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3131&g2_serialNumber=2
Is that Bunny.... bottom pic/ mid screen/ left?

[Froggystyle]

Is that Bunny.... bottom pic/ mid screen/ left?
I think it is... They were parked a little down from us...

[OutCole'd]

Is that Bunny.... bottom pic/ mid screen/ left?
Good eye Brian, stalker.......:D
Add that to the collection?

[Jbb]

Good eye Brian, stalker.......:D
Add that to the collection?
:D

[Luki]

Are these 8 people? ok, 75mph is not bad...and with 12 people, or even 14...?
I know, it makes no sence to run WOT with 12 or 14 people on board...i'm just wondering and looking forward to the tests...

[Froggystyle]

Are these 8 people? ok, 75mph is not bad...and with 12 people, or even 14...?
I know, it makes no sence to run WOT with 12 or 14 people on board...i'm just wondering and looking forward to the tests...
Well, our 75 was with 10 adults on board. The boat is very, very smooth at that speed, and totally safe and dry.

[Jbb]

Well, our 75 was with 10 adults on board. The boat is very, very smooth at that speed, and totally safe and dry.
Not to mention multiple storage areas ...for essentials such as mild pepperoni and chicken chips!...

[slowneasy]

Does it feel like you sit very high in the Trident? I sat in one this weekend at a shop in Havasu. Looking at the pics and after sitting in one, are they all positioned that way? I am ready to buy a deckboat, so any info would be appreciated.

[NEXT1]

Well there are tons of interior lay-outs these days. Wes at Trident builds a great one to look at. If you are looking for something that has a little more depth maybe take a look at NEXT. www.nextcustomboats.com

[Froggystyle]

Does it feel like you sit very high in the Trident? I sat in one this weekend at a shop in Havasu. Looking at the pics and after sitting in one, are they all positioned that way? I am ready to buy a deckboat, so any info would be appreciated.
The concept behind the higher drivers seating was that you have a far more commanding view of the lake in front of you. Even with a fully loaded boat, you can easily see over the tops of your passengers heads, who are sitting well below your height. You probably noticed that every other seat is much further down in the boat than the drivers.
That has met resistance from everyone but the owners it seems like. As soon as you have a boat full of people, you understand immediately why we did it that way.
That said, that resistance is keeping people from pulling the trigger on a new boat. So, we have re-designed the helm seat to put them nearly 7" down further in the boat, and make it adjustable fore and aft to accomodate tall or short drivers. It is a pretty cool idea, and will incorporate the subwoofers in the helm seat base as well, allowing the port side of the boat to open up into full seating without the subs over there.
If you would like any further information on any aspect of the boat, please feel free to drop me a PM or call me at the shop.
There was a reason for everything. If you disagree with the reasoning, we can within reason, custom build any aspect of the boat to meet your needs better.
Wes

[NEXT1]

More Subs. Great idea, i think you need a Keraoke option.

[Froggystyle]

More Subs. Great idea, i think you need a Keraoke option.
Every boat comes with it... you just have to out-sing the radio... which happens pretty much every time we play "Cowboy" or "Hot in Heere" out on the Sandbar.
Oh... and "Billy Jean" does it through the channel as well...
:D
And it is actually less subs... we will drop from 4 to 2 if that option is selected. Everyone wants the 4x12" version so far though...

[Not So Fast]

Hey Wes, I saw Robert launch his boat a week or so ago and was wondering which motor he wound up with? It sure sounded good and looked like he was hauling butt, any idea what speeds he's seeing:idea: At least you stood behind your product, good for you:D NSF

[Froggystyle]

Hey Wes, I saw Robert launch his boat a week or so ago and was wondering which motor he wound up with? It sure sounded good and looked like he was hauling butt, any idea what speeds he's seeing:idea: At least you stood behind your product, good for you:D NSF
He has a 625 Ilmor in it now with a Teague Platinum XR Drive. He is in the mid-nineties, but has some dialing in to do still, which we will accomplish this winter if he lets us have it long enough.. :D
Robert and Arleene are family. That boat will be forever upgraded and retrofit to as close as we can get to new standards for as long as they have it.

[slowneasy]

That is probably the orange, yellow and blue boat I sat in. I was at E-Ticket this weekend and wasnt allowed to look at the 26. Larry was in California, salesperson gone for the day, employee I talked to was very nice but very reluctant to show me the new 26. After driving 800 miles! I need a single engine deckboat that will last for the money these bad boys are costing! No power less than a 600 Merc!

[HavasuHome]

That is probably the orange, yellow and blue boat I sat in. I was at E-Ticket this weekend and wasnt allowed to look at the 26. Larry was in California, salesperson gone for the day, employee I talked to was very nice but very reluctant to show me the new 26. After driving 800 miles! I need a single engine deckboat that will last for the money these bad boys are costing! No power less than a 600 Merc!
Then look at the Howard SportDeck!!

[kap]

HavasuHome:
I'll second that Motion all those in favor say AY!
AY! Passed with no dissenting remarks :D.
I haven't heard one yet about the Howard Sportdeck.
____________________
DISCLOSURE:
I must disclose a potential conflict of interest as I have one so I must be biased and thus recuse myself for ethical reasons:)
KAP
P.S. No we will be on the lower Colorado but I may drive up to Havasu for the day if Mom gives me a hall pass.

[NEXT1]

It sounds like you are really looking for a high end boat with some power. In all the years in this industry 25+, i can not recall a customer say, '' I think i have too much power ''. And sure wish i had a buck for each one that said '' I should have got more power ''. So i guess what i'm saying is if you want a boat with 600 hp, drive one with 600. If you think you want more, drive one with more. Anyway thats my 2 cents.

[slowneasy]

It sounds like you are really looking for a high end boat with some power. In all the years in this industry 25+, i can not recall a customer say, '' I think i have too much power ''. And sure wish i had a buck for each one that said '' I should have got more power ''. So i guess what i'm saying is if you want a boat with 600 hp, drive one with 600. If you think you want more, drive one with more. Anyway thats my 2 cents.
Why are the Mercury engines so expensive? I've owned a 700hp engine before but it was built up. Illmor, Mercury, make the TEAGUE 800-900 look like the way to go price wise. But then you have to deal with the darn drive! This is really not an easy decision to make. I feel the power decision is as hard as the type of boat to buy. You start getting into some real power, and that is the same price of the boat without power! Let me ask this, is 169k too much for a 26-28ft deckboat with a Teague 800? Any brand of boat!

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Let me ask this, is 169k too much for a 26-28ft deckboat with a Teague 800? Any brand of boat!
You can't throw the any brand of boat out there becasue not all boats are constructed in the same manner with the same materials and with the same attention to detail. $169k for some deckboats with a Teague 800 is in line, not so much with others.
You need to really look at how the boat is constructed. How is the fiberglass laid up? What is the layup schedule? What type of glass is used? What type of resin is used. Is there any type of coring in the hull? If so, what kind? How is it applied and where is it applied? Is all of the hardware thru-bolted? Go to a builder and ask them to show a hull that is being laid up and watch the work being performed. ASk questions. If the builder does not want to show I would ask why? What is it they are hiding?
These are the types of questions that need to be asked when looking into buying a new boat. At least I think so. Like I said, not all boats are constructed the same way. It's not as simple as just some fiberglass and resin thrown together. Anyone that tells you that they've got the same boat as brand X but paid $20k less is blowing smoke and has no idea what really goes into building boats. That's my $.02

[Froggystyle]

You can't throw the any brand of boat out there becasue not all boats are constructed in the same manner with the same materials and with the same attention to detail. $169k for some deckboats with a Teague 800 is in line, not so much with others.
You need to really look at how the boat is constructed. How is the fiberglass laid up? What is the payup schedule? What type of glass is used? What type of resin is used. Is there any type of coring in the hull? If so, what kind? How is it applied and where is it applied? Is all of the hardware thru-bolted? Go to a builder and ask them to show a hull that is being laid up and watch the work being performed. ASk questions. If the builder does not want to show I would ask why? What is it they are hiding?
These are the types of questions that need to be asked when looking into buying a new boat. At least I think so. Like I said, not all boats are constructed the same way. It's not as simple as just some fiberglass and resin thrown together. Anyone that tells you that they've got the same boat as brand X but paid $20k less is blowing smoke and has no idea what really goes into building boats. That's my $.02
That is the best possible answer to this question... Great job!

[Jbb]

Mild Pepperoni is best stored in a cool, dry place... :)

[Froggystyle]

Why are the Mercury engines so expensive? I've owned a 700hp engine before but it was built up. Illmor, Mercury, make the TEAGUE 800-900 look like the way to go price wise. But then you have to deal with the darn drive! This is really not an easy decision to make. I feel the power decision is as hard as the type of boat to buy. You start getting into some real power, and that is the same price of the boat without power! Let me ask this, is 169k too much for a 26-28ft deckboat with a Teague 800? Any brand of boat!
To a degree you just answered your question... you have owned a 700 hp motor before, but it was "built up". You know what you can get one built for, but you are still interested and shopping around for the premium, turn-key warranted engine packages. That is essentially why...
...you want the power, but reliability and even more, accountability for that much money. The additional accountability is what we are really paying for. The ability to shove it up their ass if it breaks, and unfortunately for them to financially be able to warranty engines to do what we do with them, they need to have a solid amount of profit to offset the warranty.
Plus, they have a lot of engineering, R&D and testing that goes into them.
I am not a big Merc fan, I prefer the Ilmors, but there is no question where the money went when you put a blue motor up against a black motor side by side.
That said, you want 600hp, but you didn't mention speed... how fast do you want to go?

[Froggystyle]

Mild Pepperoni is best stored in a cool, dry place... :)
Not your dad's burned out trailer... :D

[Jbb]

Not your dad's burned out trailer... :D
....It's the way of the road, Wes.......:D

[slowneasy]

You can't throw the any brand of boat out there becasue not all boats are constructed in the same manner with the same materials and with the same attention to detail. $169k for some deckboats with a Teague 800 is in line, not so much with others.
You need to really look at how the boat is constructed. How is the fiberglass laid up? What is the payup schedule? What type of glass is used? What type of resin is used. Is there any type of coring in the hull? If so, what kind? How is it applied and where is it applied? Is all of the hardware thru-bolted? Go to a builder and ask them to show a hull that is being laid up and watch the work being performed. ASk questions. If the builder does not want to show I would ask why? What is it they are hiding?
These are the types of questions that need to be asked when looking into buying a new boat. At least I think so. Like I said, not all boats are constructed the same way. It's not as simple as just some fiberglass and resin thrown together. Anyone that tells you that they've got the same boat as brand X but paid $20k less is blowing smoke and has no idea what really goes into building boats. That's my $.02
With what my friend is working with, the payup schedule is really his own choice after a huge downpayment. He wasnt impressed with kevlar layup and vacuum bagged as for someone showed him that it would be impossible to do a boat fast enough with the vacuum bagging. True? Do the top three in this poll belong there? Or is there just that many more of these brand of boats made? I am learning really fast and seriously appreciate all of your help. This is going to be a high dollar decesion for me and I need it to be the right one. Is it true that the Illmor's dont run very well in 100 degree plus weather? Why do some boats get stress cracks where eye hooks are placed and others dont?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

With what my friend is working with, the payup schedule is really his own choice after a huge downpayment. He wasnt impressed with kevlar layup and vacuum bagged as for someone showed him that it would be impossible to do a boat fast enough with the vacuum bagging. True? Do the top three in this poll belong there? Or is there just that many more of these brand of boats made? I am learning really fast and seriously appreciate all of your help. This is going to be a high dollar decesion for me and I need it to be the right one. Is it true that the Illmor's dont run very well in 100 degree plus weather? Why do some boats get stress cracks where eye hooks are placed and others dont?
Just my .02. Howard builds a top quality boat. I own an Ultra which I love, but my vote went to Howard.
I am not a big Merc fan, I prefer the Ilmors, but there is no question where the money went when you put a blue motor up against a black motor side by side.
Wes, do you see a retail difference of over $20K when when looking at an HP525 and a 496HO or an HP500 and a 502EFI? Personally I think when comparing the actual engines, $20k more for a 525 is outrageous, especially when yoiu can buy a complete crate 502/502, for about $6k, which is the same basic motor, without Merc EFI, a different cam and better valves,

[kap]

Hello Slowneasy:
I am neither a manufacturer or marine industry person. The questions you are asking require "you" to do your homework and trust no-one vendor or manufacturer when conducting a Q & A session.
You begin with setting your base goals:
1. How fast do I want my deckboat to go?---Relates to power your going to put in your boat and be happy----NEXT1 Is right on the mark if you think you will need X-amount of HP then go bigger. You never hear guys saying Gee I wish I had a smaller motor---not gonna happen.
2. What are the features I really want?---Relates to Hull design and layout ie.. seating, features, and hull type ie.. rear walk through cat modified v etc.
3. Drive or experience as many choices as you possibly can and know from the begining what your looking for---- do not do it blindly.
A great deal of quality info has already been posted by HB members and manufacturers.
However, from your posts I can only conclude that you are unfamiliar with some of the most basic concepts. [Note: This is not intended to offend you just that you may need more information]
An example is your statement---Is it true that the Illmor's dont run very well in 100 degree plus weather? No engine makes great horsepower in 100 plus weather any one that says theirs does is lying. Temperature, humidity, and altitude are all major variables in the horsepower equation. Your question ties in to the equation if you need X-Horsepower and it's 100 degrees you will need an output that is greater than the base amount due to loss of HP from high temps.
In addition, if you want the cost benefit analysis you need to comparison shop different engine combinations and drives and flesh out the real benefits and costs before asking a general statement in a public forum where most information is suspect--- due to personal agendas or sales goals etc...
Having recently completed a project for my family I am very in tune to what it takes to have your project meet your base goals. The base goal approach is a starting point that you can modify and make your own depending on how your early experiences form with different companies and engine builders.
In conclusion, I can sum it up in a succinct fashion---hardwork and lots of personal R & D.
Good luck with your project it's time consuming but worth the effort if you acheive your goals.
Respectfully,
KAP

[Havasu_Dreamin]

With what my friend is working with, the payup schedule is really his own choice after a huge downpayment. He wasnt impressed with kevlar layup and vacuum bagged as for someone showed him that it would be impossible to do a boat fast enough with the vacuum bagging. True? Do the top three in this poll belong there? Or is there just that many more of these brand of boats made? I am learning really fast and seriously appreciate all of your help. This is going to be a high dollar decesion for me and I need it to be the right one. Is it true that the Illmor's dont run very well in 100 degree plus weather? Why do some boats get stress cracks where eye hooks are placed and others dont?
Where I typed payup, it was supposed to be layup as in layup schedule. That is, how long is the boat in the mold? Sometimes my typing skills are really lacking, sorry about that.
Well, I know that Howard is leading the poll with 55 votes and I am fairly certain they do not have 55 Sportdecks on the water yet so it's not all 'cheerleading'. Ours was number 18 and we took delivery in December of 06.
As far as stress cracks, that's why you ask the question I posed in my earlier post.
Ask away here and I'll, along with many others, answer to the best of my/our knwoledge based on what I/we have learned haivng been through the build process before. Does it make me an expert? Hell no...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...once or twice... :)

[Froggystyle]

With what my friend is working with, the payup schedule is really his own choice after a huge downpayment. He wasnt impressed with kevlar layup and vacuum bagged as for someone showed him that it would be impossible to do a boat fast enough with the vacuum bagging. True? Do the top three in this poll belong there? Or is there just that many more of these brand of boats made? I am learning really fast and seriously appreciate all of your help. This is going to be a high dollar decesion for me and I need it to be the right one. Is it true that the Illmor's dont run very well in 100 degree plus weather? Why do some boats get stress cracks where eye hooks are placed and others dont?
I think he meant "layup" schedule... meaning the number of laminates in which succession and how they comprise the reinforcement layers in the hull.
Kevlar and carbon are awfully sexy, but used mostly improperly in the applications I have seen them used and charged for in our end of the market.
For example, carbon is not any lighter than e-glass. 40 ounces of carbon has the same weight and the same potential for holding resin as E-glass does. What it is, is stronger per ounce.
With an optimized layup... i.e. an engineered, scientifically arrived at layup, you can reduce the amount of reinforcement you use by opting for carbon. It is about 10% stronger by weight then e-glass. Meaning, if you had 40 ounce e-glass, you can use 36 ounces of carbon... but that is only half the story...
The problem is that if you are wet laminating, the resin to fiber ratio is right around 70% resin. A little higher in some spots (bottom of the hull) and lower in some (top of the gunwales). Optimal fiber volume would be about 30% resin. With an optimal vacuum bag setup, you can hope to drop that down into the 50% range, but optimal setups are impossible to use on a boat hull. Best you can hope for with the method people need to use to "vacuum bag" a boat is 60% or so. They aren't magic, and just plain aren't pulling much resin out compared to what has to go in to ensure it is all wet. What vacuum bags do well in today's performance boats is de-bulk... or ensure that air bubbles are squeezed out and fiber layers are in intimate contact with each other. This helps a lot... but don't expect a massive drop in resin content.
So, if 70% of your hull is resin, and you lose 10% of your fiber volume, what have you really lost? Lets say the hull is 2,000#. 1400# of that is resin, 600# is glass. There is quite a bit more weight tied up in the bulkheads, wood floors, stringers etc... but lets work just with the hull and deck for this number. By switching to carbon or Kevlar, you stand to be able to lose 10% of 600, or 60 pounds. Total percentage savings of 3%
So, a carbon switch, if engineered properly will give you a loss of 60 pounds on a 2000# boat. Hardly worth the energy and certainly not worth the expense.
Resin infusion brings the resin content down to 33% or so. Nearly optimal. Not quite perfect, but nearly. With the same boat above, your boat weight would drop to the same 600 pounds of fiber, same exact strength, and a hull weight of about 890# or so. It will actually increase in strength because of an increase in the elongation modulous, and a decrease in brittleness. Pools of resin are non-structural.
In this model, you will begin to see a payoff for a carbon or exotic material. Again, same model, you can lose the same 60# of laminate but lose almost 7% of your total hull weight. More than double the percentage loss... but on a boat like this, still not worth it.
A far more useful material to switch is your core. Balsa is commonly used in boat hulls, but from a composites industry perspective, it is a commodity level material. They make fiberglass tank lids and such out of it. As a natural material, it has a ton of drawbacks, and limited highlights. It can rot, fracture, and has very little shear strength. It is however VERY inexpensive, and it is excellent in compressive strength... which is unfortunately a double edged sword. It will hold up on the outside, but delaminate on the inside in the event of an impact.
Linear foams, Styrene Acrylo-nitrate cores (SAN cores) are the strongest, most durable and highest strength cores you can use for this application. They are also the lowest density (lightest) and unfortunately the most expensive by a lot. Compared to balsa at $.75 a foot or so, SAN cores are closer to $9/ft.
Regarding vacuum bagging and its utility in boats...
The maximum time you can keep fiberglass resin fluid (the only time it would do any good to 'bag it) is about 90 minutes. In order to properly vacuum bag a part, you would need to wet out the entire part completely, clean a flange, insert your peel laminates and vacuum bag, seal the edges and have enough slack to allow for all of the elevation changes in the hull and deck, draw a vacuum, check for leaks, fix the leaks and pull it tight.
On a dry lamination, the vacuum bag takes us about 3 hours to install and leak check. Could be done in 2 more than likely if really hustling.
Problem is, by the time a lamination crew has gotten to the stern of a 27' boat, the bow end is already dry. Not to mention laminating the other side, the center sponson etc... It is physically impossible to laminate an entire boat, bag it and pull any resin out of it. Not going to happen.
You can do it with post-cured epoxies that are heated to cure, but that isn't what is being advertised as vacuum bagging today...
What is happenning is that you are getting a wet lamination, curing, sanding, a vacuum bag holding your core in place, the bag removed and the inner laminates wet laminated in. Hardly the industry meaning of the term. Your freind is correct... you can't lay up an entire boat and then vacuum bag it.
To answer your next question, Ilmor's are just as susceptible to heat as all other motors. I haven't seen an increased or decreased drop in performance with them over a V-8. They will outperform a similarly powered V-8 in any condition due to the 250# weight loss however. That weight doesn't know what a thermometer is, and you are going to see a heavier boat always outperformed by a lighter boat in the same conditions.
"Stress cracks" in gelcoat are common when you have a flexible panel (un-cored, un reinforced) and a heavy 20+mil thick gelcoat layer. As mentioned before, resin is non-structural, and gelcoat is nothing more than tinted polyester resin. You will find that it is worst with a "full boat blend" because of the extensive use of clear gel. With no laminate support, it cracks instead of flexing (again, the aforementioned elongation modulous) and usually does this around areas of greater stress, such as openings, through bolts and bow eyes. The answer to stopping these is in spreading out the load over a greater surface with a backing plate and loading it properly. Boats should be designed with lift points, and only lifted using them.
Any further questions, please feel free to drop me a PM, as I think I have gone over my allotted technical jargon limit for the day... :D
Wes

[Jbb]

It's really bad when the police get your prescriptions.....:jawdrop:

[Froggystyle]

Wes, do you see a retail difference of over $20K when when looking at an HP525 and a 496HO or an HP500 and a 502EFI? Personally I think when comparing the actual engines, $20k more for a 525 is outrageous, especially when yoiu can buy a complete crate 502/502, for about $6k, which is the same basic motor, without Merc EFI, a different cam and better valves,
I am nauseated by the price of performance engines. When I get my boat back together, I am going to using one of my turbo motors for it more than likely, as I wouldn't spend that kind of money for a one year warranty and minimal extra power. I think the 550 Ilmor is a great value, but paying $14K more for 130 extra horsepower is ridiculous to me, and I have a tough time marketing it. A Viper tuner could give you 1200 hp for that kind of cash, and leave $7K in the bank to cover your first refresh.
The Mercs are even worse... but at least they come with a drive. Even if it does need to be upgraded to be durable enough to run hard.
I think at this level of cash out, you should get more for your money. Perhaps I am delusional, but far more than 60% of my total cost to build goes into just the engine and drive. More than 70% if it is blue or a V-10. Compared to the 8 hard weeks of rigging and constructing, the 9 guys I have working on it and the myriad vendors churning away, I see a lot more value in my boats than I do the engines. For one, I am giving a lifetime warranty on the hull... they give a year warranty on their parts.
I will likely struggle with this my entire career. But, the people have spoken, and they want warranted, turn-key power and are willing to pay for it. I am doing my part by not making a single additional dollar off of the engine and drive upgrades. I make the same amount of money on my base boat as I do a boat with a 700 Ilmor in it. The way I see it, it doesn't cost me any more to install the motor or drive... the same hole is cut in the same place... why charge more?
Because of that, you will find it is a lot less expensive to upgrade to a Viper or Merc Racing motor with us than any other boat builder.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Because of that, you will find it is a lot less expensive to upgrade to a Viper or Merc Racing motor with us than any other boat builder.
You are assuming that every other builder builds profit into the motor upgrades and not all of them do...

[clownpuncher]

I am doing my part by not making a single additional dollar off of the engine and drive upgrades. I make the same amount of money on my base boat as I do a boat with a 700 Ilmor in it. The way I see it, it doesn't cost me any more to install the motor or drive... the same hole is cut in the same place... why charge more?
Because of that, you will find it is a lot less expensive to upgrade to a Viper or Merc Racing motor with us than any other boat builder.
That's refreshing to hear from a business owner;)

[Strippoker]

my 2cents for the day is it me or is this thread kind of getting off balance if we are honestly trying to compare deckboats then why arent we setting standards to go off. Like any good research project you have to first set up a control
A. Same motor
B. Cargo
C. Cost
D. Length
E. Standard Features gel colors,and interior (NOT UPGRADES)
Like my grandpa use to say you can put all sorts of flowers on a turd, but in the end its still a turd

[Froggystyle]

You are assuming that every other builder builds profit into the motor upgrades and not all of them do...
Well, you are right... but the quotes that I have been handed to match or comp to are charging quite a bit more for motors than I do. It is all I can compare to.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

You are assuming that every other builder builds profit into the motor upgrades and not all of them do...
Scott,
I believe dealer cost to upgrade from an HO to a 525, is roughly $13K. I don't know of any builders who offer this upgrade for this amount. But maybe I haven't looked hard enough. ???

[kap]

my 2cents for the day is it me or is this thread kind of getting off balance if we are honestly trying to compare deckboats then why arent we setting standards to go off. Like any good research project you have to first set up a control
A. Same motor
B. Cargo
C. Cost
D. Length
E. Standard Features gel colors,and interior (NOT UPGRADES)
Like my grandpa use to say you can put all sorts of flowers on a turd, but in the end its still a turd
________________________
I agree but no one cares to make that base control the benchmark.
Good Point--- Strippoker :idea: I was thinking the same thing.
KAP

[Froggystyle]

Scott,
I believe dealer cost to upgrade from an HO to a 525, is roughly $13K. I don't know of any builders who offer this upgrade for this amount. But maybe I haven't looked hard enough. ???
Our 496HO base boat is $105K. Our exact same boat with a 525 is $120K. We pay a little more for the exhaust in the 525 as it is a stainless downtube setup, and we charge to switch the plug from a Merc connector (garbage) to the Deutch connectors we use throughout the boat.
Important also to remember that the HO doesn't come with an XR drive stock. To upgrade to an XR drive from an X costs nearly $3K.
Trident upgrades from a 496HO Bravo 1X drive to a 525/Bravo 1 XR for $15K.
To upgrade drive for drive it is only a $12K upgrade for us.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Our 496HO base boat is $105K. Our exact same boat with a 525 is $120K. We pay a little more for the exhaust in the 525 as it is a stainless downtube setup, and we charge to switch the plug from a Merc connector (garbage) to the Deutch connectors we use throughout the boat.
Important also to remember that the HO doesn't come with an XR drive stock. To upgrade to an XR drive from an X costs nearly $3K.
Trident upgrades from a 496HO Bravo 1X drive to a 525/Bravo 1 XR for $15K.
To upgrade drive for drive it is only a $12K upgrade for us.
Wes,
Thanks for the specifics.
BTW anyone notice that HB's server and everyone 's PC think daylight savings time is over. :D :D

[Froggystyle]

Wes,
Thanks for the specifics.
My pleasure. Now you can honestly say you know of a manufacturer willing to do that for their clients... :D
BTW anyone notice that HB's server and everyone 's PC think daylight savings time is over. :D :D
Mine's fine...

[ULTRA26 # 1]

My pleasure. Now you can honestly say you know of a manufacturer willing to do that for their clients... :D
Mine's fine...
Note the time of your last post.

[Cole Trickle]

Our 496HO base boat is $105K. Our exact same boat with a 525 is $120K. We pay a little more for the exhaust in the 525 as it is a stainless downtube setup, and we charge to switch the plug from a Merc connector (garbage) to the Deutch connectors we use throughout the boat.
Important also to remember that the HO doesn't come with an XR drive stock. To upgrade to an XR drive from an X costs nearly $3K.
Trident upgrades from a 496HO Bravo 1X drive to a 525/Bravo 1 XR for $15K.
To upgrade drive for drive it is only a $12K upgrade for us.
Post some pics of the blue boat already!!!!:D

[shippingguy]

Post some pics of the blue boat already!!!!:D
Why so you can kick it's trailer tires???:D Just messin with ya Brandin. Hope all is well with married life.:)
Mike

[Cole Trickle]

Why so you can kick it's trailer tires???:D Just messin with ya Brandin. Hope all is well with married life.:)
Mike
Married life is great......No different;):) How was Hawaii?
I wish I was in the market to kick tires on a new boat. the way the market is on used boat I don't see my self trading on for a couple years. I love boating but there is no way I am gonna take a bath on my perfectly fine 2005 boat.

[Froggystyle]

Post some pics of the blue boat already!!!!:D
Lots of pics here...
Deep Ocean Blue Gallery (http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=2682)
Here are a couple though... This is at night...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3438&g2_serialNumber=2
At the Nautical with #2...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3422&g2_serialNumber=2
With Merc power... :sleeping:
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3362&g2_serialNumber=2
And there are some good ones from Tennessee at Pier57.com (http://www.pier57.com/TRIDENT.htm)
http://www.pier57.com/IMG_0398.jpg

[shippingguy]

Married life is great......No different;):) How was Hawaii?
I wish I was in the market to kick tires on a new boat. the way the market is on used boat I don't see my self trading on for a couple years. I love boating but there is no way I am gonna take a bath on my perfectly fine 2005 boat.
I hear you there. Your boat is very nice and you enjoy it and that is all that matters. I would hang on to it for a while.
Glad to hear things are going well. Hawaii was great. As soon as I slow down I will download some pics.
Mike

[Cole Trickle]

Lots of pics here...
Deep Ocean Blue Gallery (http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=2682)
Here are a couple though... This is at night...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3438&g2_serialNumber=2
At the Nautical with #2...
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3422&g2_serialNumber=2
With Merc power... :sleeping:
http://www.tridentboats.com/trident_boats_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3362&g2_serialNumber=2
And there are some good ones from Tennessee at Pier57.com (http://www.pier57.com/TRIDENT.htm)
http://www.pier57.com/IMG_0398.jpg
Boat looks great and the rigging/details look amazing.
Whats being built now? (How many hulls are done ready for rigging?)
Red one is still my favorite thus far;):D

[Froggystyle]

Boat looks great and the rigging/details look amazing.
Whats being built now? (How many hulls are done ready for rigging?)
Red one is still my favorite thus far;):D
We are building a 710 Ilmor/Teague boat for a client and that is it right now.
I am done with building boats for stock. Inevitably it isn't exactly what people want, and I get talked down on the part.
Our boats are very expensive and time consuming to build. We are approaching a mindset where the boat will cost what it costs, and if we build them, GREAT, if not, we are focusing on our other aspects a bit more now.
Discounts are pretty much a thing of the past with us though. I have essentially paid everyone $20K to this point to get to build them a boat, and we are shifting fire to more lucrative fields in the meantime.
I am suprisingly at ease with building low volume, high end craft instead of trying to compete at every level with boats that have far less invested into the construction. These new avenues will allow me to build the best boat for the folks who want the best, and let the company survive competing in areas other than building boats for a disappearing market.

[Cole Trickle]

We are building a 710 Ilmor/Teague boat for a client and that is it right now.
I am done with building boats for stock. Inevitably it isn't exactly what people want, and I get talked down on the part.
Our boats are very expensive and time consuming to build. We are approaching a mindset where the boat will cost what it costs, and if we build them, GREAT, if not, we are focusing on our other aspects a bit more now.
Discounts are pretty much a thing of the past with us though. I have essentially paid everyone $20K to this point to get to build them a boat, and we are shifting fire to more lucrative fields in the meantime.
I am suprisingly at ease with building low volume, high end craft instead of trying to compete at every level with boats that have far less invested into the construction. These new avenues will allow me to build the best boat for the folks who want the best, and let the company survive competing in areas other than building boats for a disappearing market.
Did you already pop the 710 boat?
Sounds like things are going ok and thats cool:)
I wish the market was the same as it was 3 years ago and they were flying off the shelf. The boats have come so far from 1-4 I can't imagine how bitchen/dialed they would be by the time you got to boat 20-30-50-etc....

[Froggystyle]

Did you already pop the 710 boat?
Sure did. We are starting to rig shortly...
Sounds like things are going ok and thats cool:)
I wish the market was the same as it was 3 years ago and they were flying off the shelf. The boats have come so far from 1-4 I can't imagine how bitchen/dialed they would be by the time you got to boat 20-30-50-etc....
Yeah, I keep thinking the same thing. I feel better when I realize that the market that we are in would have happenned whether or not we were already selling boats or not... and a least now I have low overhead and can survive.
If I had received even a modicum of success in that period I would be bankrupt from the three Ferrari payments and the house in La Jolla... I know myself well enough to know that I would have gone straight "Dumb and Dumber" with the money and come home with a foam cowboy hat and an Italian exotic. :D

[Cole Trickle]

Sure did. We are starting to rig shortly...
Yeah, I keep thinking the same thing. I feel better when I realize that the market that we are in would have happenned whether or not we were already selling boats or not... and a least now I have low overhead and can survive.
If I had received even a modicum of success in that period I would be bankrupt from the three Ferrari payments and the house in La Jolla... I know myself well enough to know that I would have gone straight "Dumb and Dumber" with the money and come home with a foam cowboy hat and an Italian exotic. :D
lol....that would be a sweet halloween get up;):D
Dont forget the Lambo...lol

[Luki]

I still think, the Luxury Cat is the best Deck on the Market...:D :cool:

[Froggystyle]

I still think, the Luxury Cat is the best Deck on the Market...:D :cool:
It seems you would not be alone either...

[Phat Matt]

Well, I know that Howard is leading the poll with 55 votes and I am fairly certain they do not have 55 Sportdecks on the water yet so it's not all 'cheerleading'. Ours was number 18 and we took delivery in December of 06.
They same could be said for E-ticket and Trident. :)

[Froggystyle]

I think that one of the greatest things about this particular poll is that the top four are completely different boats.
The Trident and E-ticket are both great... both have a ton of innovation, great concepts for utility and are both motivated, low volume builders focused on premium quality above all else. The two boats couldn't be more different, or attack problems more dissimilarly. Both have a ton of rounded features and lines, and neither are derivative of anything else in the industry, nor could they realistically be confused for anything else.
The Howard is new tooling by a company that has been known for quality since before I was born. The Willens have done a great job injecting a new vein into the line with the Bullet and sport cats, and it shows with the deck.
The Conquest is what it is... a crowd favorite. The bottom works, the top works and recent modifications have really added a bit of sizzle to the design which has been around quite some time. Interesting that the AO, Eliminator and other near exact duplicates are not even anywhere near as popular.
I think it is a great poll. Really indicative to me of the current market state is the results for Magic... by far the most popular deck on Havasu.
I think it shows that there is what you want... and what you get.

[ChumpChange]

I think that one of the greatest things about this particular poll is that the top four are completely different boats.
I finally brought something useful to the ***boat forums. :D :D :D

[slowneasy]

this boating deal is all jacked up! I have been wanting a brand new deckboat for a while now. Have the money for almost any kind. This is what I have come to conclude: Please correct me where I am wrong,
A: Dcb== seems to sell at different prices to different people, depending on financial needs and speed of getting a deal done.(spoke with about 8 dcb owners)
B:Magic== Whatever you want whenever you want as long as you live in Havasu
C:Trident==great ideas that started at the wrong time, a little too late.Boat market not that great for innovations
D:Conquest== selling way too many used ones
E:Howard==you better have a lot of money right now! No questions about it!
F:E-Ticket== get in line if they have time for you
G:Eliminator==Always a new model around the corner

[Phat Matt]

this boating deal is all jacked up! I have been wanting a brand new deckboat for a while now. Have the money for almost any kind. This is what I have come to conclude: Please correct me where I am wrong,
A: Dcb== seems to sell at different prices to different people, depending on financial needs and speed of getting a deal done.(spoke with about 8 dcb owners)
B:Magic== Whatever you want whenever you want as long as you live in Havasu
C:Trident==great ideas that started at the wrong time, a little too late.Boat market not that great for innovations
D:Conquest== selling way too many used ones
E:Howard==you better have a lot of money right now! No questions about it!
F:E-Ticket== get in line if they have time for you
G:Eliminator==Always a new model around the corner
Pick what you want and go for it. It's winter time. Whether you get it in a week or 6 months, at least it's the one YOU want.

[havasu5150]

this boating deal is all jacked up! I have been wanting a brand new deckboat for a while now. Have the money for almost any kind. This is what I have come to conclude: Please correct me where I am wrong,
A: Dcb== seems to sell at different prices to different people, depending on financial needs and speed of getting a deal done.(spoke with about 8 dcb owners)
B:Magic== Whatever you want whenever you want as long as you live in Havasu
C:Trident==great ideas that started at the wrong time, a little too late.Boat market not that great for innovations
D:Conquest== selling way too many used ones
E:Howard==you better have a lot of money right now! No questions about it!
F:E-Ticket== get in line if they have time for you
G:Eliminator==Always a new model around the corner
Interesting analysis. Here's my take:
A) DCB = Quality boat ...have yet to see an actual deck on the market
B) Magic = Very popular. See several every weekend have not met an unhappy owner
C) Trident = Interesting ideas Saw one at Havasu all summer...floating stereo
D) Conquest = my particular choice. Disagree with the selling way too many used ones comment. The two that have been in the spam section are the exception. Almost never see one in the trader. New hull design in 06 improved an already excellent product.
E) Howard = The few I've seen are very nice, however I doubt the number of decks they have sold match the number of votes they received.
F) E ticket = Great boat, however I agree that the market for the E ticket is more closely aligned with the Magic 30' or the new Conquest 32. Different market share.
G) Eliminator = Also a great boat, however the copy of the old Conquest/ American Offshore hull is getting dated. Looking forward to seeing a new deck offering.

[Froggystyle]

this boating deal is all jacked up! I have been wanting a brand new deckboat for a while now. Have the money for almost any kind. This is what I have come to conclude: Please correct me where I am wrong,
A: Dcb== seems to sell at different prices to different people, depending on financial needs and speed of getting a deal done.(spoke with about 8 dcb owners)
B:Magic== Whatever you want whenever you want as long as you live in Havasu
C:Trident==great ideas that started at the wrong time, a little too late.Boat market not that great for innovations
D:Conquest== selling way too many used ones
E:Howard==you better have a lot of money right now! No questions about it!
F:E-Ticket== get in line if they have time for you
G:Eliminator==Always a new model around the corner
Call me. Seriously.

[BadKachina]

Sure did. We are starting to rig shortly...
Yeah, I keep thinking the same thing. I feel better when I realize that the market that we are in would have happenned whether or not we were already selling boats or not... and a least now I have low overhead and can survive.
If I had received even a modicum of success in that period I would be bankrupt from the three Ferrari payments and the house in La Jolla... I know myself well enough to know that I would have gone straight "Dumb and Dumber" with the money and come home with a foam cowboy hat and an Italian exotic. :D
Stick to your guns, I love your product, just can't afford it. Someday maybe.......:D

[Froggystyle]

Stick to your guns, I love your product, just can't afford it. Someday maybe.......:D
Dang,
Well, we aren't going anywhere. I am going to however redirect some effort into our other ventures that have recently become more... attractive... ;)
When this all turns around, we will still be here, and still be building the most amazing things we can think of.

[Lightning]

Dang,
Well, we aren't going anywhere. I am going to however redirect some effort into our other ventures that have recently become more... attractive... ;)
When this all turns around, we will still be here, and still be building the most amazing things we can think of.
Sounds like there are some good things brewing for you guys. The thing that's cool about Trident; they never stop, don't believe in quitting, always do things the right way, and are always busy doing....something.
Every time I stop by the shop, it's packed with boats and everyone is working their ass off.
Last time I was there, there was a huge Skater in there getting the bottom repaired, another little jet flipped over getting the bottom worked on, a 28 Stealth getting some gelcoat repairs, one Revolution getting rigged for a local customer (cool colors BTW), the blue boat was getting ready for delivery, etc.... Not to mention all your little projects - Rhino upgrades, your Revolution, the shop truck, etc....

[Luki]

They are all great Decks (where is the Advantage X-Flight here...?). Everyone has different preferences. As i have it for my business. Cruising all day long, with always 8-14 people on board, almost 10hrs a day, there is nothing better than the Luxury Cat for me.
If i had to buy a boat for myself and for private occasions, i think i would go for the Advantage. It's an awesome boat with a very interesting hull.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

They same could be said for E-ticket and Trident. :)
I 'knew' that as well, but since I do not really know for a fact I felt it would have been wrong for me to say that. Whereas with the Howard I know they do not have 50+ on the water...