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Big Warlock
09-21-2007, 08:38 AM
Here is something to get the crowd in a tissy this morning. Lots of stuff being said, but let me throw some stuff out there for discussion:
1) There are approximately 12 million illegals working in America. There are approximately 4 million unemployed Americans. How exactly will that work out for us?
2) Most illegals are on the payroll with forged documentation, and, paying taxes into the system with no hope of recovery. And most taxes are imposed on purchases that they make, much like you and I. For example, gas tax, sales tax, fed, tax, state tax, city tax, county tax, property tax, etc. etc.
3) Illegals don't want to be illegal, it's just that waiting three years at the American Embassy for a work visa is a bit of a stretch for most of them. A worker program would be an easy solution.
4) All illegals are not Mexican!
5) There are more criminal Americans than illegals, by percentage. There are more American criminals in certain ethnicities than illegals by percentage and numbers!
6) The wage argument doesn't hold too much water as many of these illegals have earnings above many Americans in similar work, when there are Americans willing to do that kind of work.
I agree they shouldn't use the emergency services as primary medical service. I agree they are not entitled to social services, etc. etc.
I don't have all the answers, but I offer this:
My solution (other than the obvious Worker's Program)
Have you ever heard of mad cow disease? When they find a cow, the next day they can tell us where the cow came from, what farms his or her siblings, mom and dad are at. And that is out of hundreds of millions of cows!!!
Give every illegal a cow and problem solved!!! :D

Big Warlock
09-21-2007, 08:43 AM
:mad: If not here "LEGALLY", YOU ARE "ILLEGALY" HERE !!! AND ENTITLED TO NOTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:
Not even in dispute!!!

Jordy
09-21-2007, 08:52 AM
Give every illegal a cow and problem solved!!! :D
Sounds great other than this last little tidbit, which is an obvious oversight. :idea:
Give every illegal a cow and it's carne asada for everyone!!! TAMBIEN!!! :D

Big Warlock
09-21-2007, 09:09 AM
Sounds great other than this last little tidbit, which is an obvious oversight. :idea:
Give every illegal a cow and it's carne asada for everyone!!! TAMBIEN!!! :D
I think you are making fun of my plan??? :D

Jordy
09-21-2007, 09:10 AM
I think you are making fun of my plan??? :D
Me? No way. You could get the boys in the shop to crank out a few more of those $30K BBQ pits, I mean trailers and have a mobile carne asada business... take some money back from the illegals. :D :D :D

Big Warlock
09-21-2007, 09:34 AM
Found some interesting stuff:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pji96.pdf
and
http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/DivisionsBoards/CSA/docs/appendices/appendix_a.pdf

Jordy
09-21-2007, 09:37 AM
Are you fockin' new??? This is ***boat, not FACTboat!!! Facts are worse than porn around here. I hope they ban your fact citing ass before chaos ensues!!! :mad: :devil: :eek: :D

socalmoney
09-21-2007, 10:00 AM
Give every illegal a cow and problem solved!!! :D
Damn, it's bad enough we have 20 people living in one house, now you want to add 20 cows?

Jordy
09-21-2007, 10:11 AM
Damn, it's bad enough we have 20 people living in one house, now you want to add 20 cows?
There are definately some holes in the cow part of his plan. :notam:

Big Warlock
09-21-2007, 10:20 AM
Damn, it's bad enough we have 20 people living in one house, now you want to add 20 cows?
Damn I didn't say it was perfect, but you will know where they are!!! :D

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 10:30 AM
You know, I read in the Arizona Republic that a lot of them only want to be here for 2-3 years. That way they can make a decent amount of money. Then they take it back to Mexico to start their own businesses and support their families. :idea:
It is a very difficult process to become a citizen. I actually liked the guest worker program. They get their few years of decent work. We allow it to be "legal". We benefit. Everyone wins.
They say when this labor law starts in January, that construction, food service, farming and landscaping are going to take huge hits. Statistically it is horrible for Arizona's economy. They passed this law in Colorado last year, and now the farmers have to use inmates in the field to work. :jawdrop: I don't think I like that very much, since a lot of Valley areas are next to farms.
JMHO. Hope I don't get flamed.;)

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 10:44 AM
In Peoria last week there wast an inmate on worker duty at the food bank. He walked right out, and showed up at his girlfriends house. A big standoff ensued.
I don't know about you, but I think our tax dollars are well spent keeping them AWAY from society.:idea:

Glamasu
09-21-2007, 10:47 AM
:d :d ................

WaterJunky
09-21-2007, 11:08 AM
Hello all;
I have heard the argument that there will be a cataclysmic downfall of the farming / construction / whatever you want to insert here, in the past. Every time the immigration issue gets brought up this argument has been used. I have never seen this impending gloom and doom. I also hear that "this will be the time" every time. B.S.
I have been actively involved in Northern California agriculture for the last 20+ years. I would like to think I know a little about the industry. The great fall of Ag due to cutting the supply of illegals will not happen. The American farmer (this goes to many Americans) have always been and will always be creative in problem solving. Will any changes cause changes in how things are done, Yes, great downfalls, No. Will the price of labor jump a little, probably. Will that cause the price of some food to increase, yes but very litttle due to farmers (with a few exceptions like milk) having a suprisingly small take from what is paid at the store for goods (processing and stores take the vast majority of that sticker price). I will say that many farmers do like and take advantage of the cheap labor, but the crops will still be grown and harvested.
Gloom and Doom is all B.S. by people with an agenda.

roostwear
09-21-2007, 11:09 AM
So isn't someone who committed a crime a criminal? So by definition, an illegal alien has committed a crime by entering the country illegally making 100% of illegal aliens criminals. How can American citizens have a greater percentage than that?:squiggle:

77Woodbridge
09-21-2007, 11:26 AM
Farming labor costs are not the same across the board. As was eluded to in the comment about dairymen and the cost of milk per pound. The planting and harvest of row crops vary greatly in labor required, orchards, poultry, pork and other producers are "farmers" as well. The statement that this will hurt "farmers" may not be universally true, however the quantity of manual labor required to get the product to market varies greatly by what you're farming. The guys producing the stuff that requires alot of hands on will be hurt. You pay your labor upfront, not at harvset.

WaterJunky
09-21-2007, 11:26 AM
Its called "new math".

Jordy
09-21-2007, 11:27 AM
How can American citizens have a greater percentage than that?:squiggle:
I belive the little word that separates the two percentages is "conviction." ;)

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 11:30 AM
Hello all;
Gloom and Doom is all B.S. by people with an agenda.
I partially agree with you regarding agriculture. There are some creative solutions. But the effects on construction and food service will be the most detrimental IMO. And I do think that even if prices go up a little, this effects the economy negatively. I feel like we are a country in denial of how dependent we have become on the immigrant work force we use. And I still don't see whats the big deal about a guest worker program:idea:

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 11:31 AM
The ol chain gang therory is a good start & a powerfull deterent !!
Very true;)

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 11:32 AM
:d :d ................
Maybe I sound like a hippie right now, but they are still human :(

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 11:34 AM
Eliminate Welfare !!!, Plenty Of Work Capable People !!!
Also agree.;)

SB
09-21-2007, 11:36 AM
Why can't we let in 12 million hot Russian babes? :D

Jordy
09-21-2007, 11:37 AM
Why can't we let in 12 million hot Russian babes? :D
And put a topless car wash on every corner. After all, I'm pretty certain that all the fine people who wash my Pinto and trucks, might not exactly have all their paperwork in order. Once we run them out, there will be a huge shortage of car wash workers. :idea:

Jyruiz
09-21-2007, 11:38 AM
Why can't we let in 12 million hot Russian babes? :D
Probably because there isn't 12 million hot Russian babes.:D

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 11:38 AM
Mrs.20, you Roln 20's other half ??
20" Guns other half :D

Jordy
09-21-2007, 11:39 AM
Probably because there isn't 12 million hot Russian babes.:D
We have to start somewhere... Anna Kournikova can wash my car... topless of course. :)

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 11:42 AM
Probably because there isn't 12 million hot Russian babes.:D
There may be :idea: They have that whole mail order thing going on.:D

Jyruiz
09-21-2007, 11:43 AM
There may be :idea: They have that whole mail order thing going on.:D
I say 6 million tops.:)

2Driver
09-21-2007, 11:47 AM
a free capitalist economy will always find a way to get the job done.
I'm just tired of hearing about how they "built" our country and "run" the service industry. If I have to pay $3 for a head of lettuce for a season or 2 I'm good with that. What I pay in lettuce I know I will get back in the form of less crime, lower healthcare, less ID theft and an increase in taxpayer contributions.

Hal
09-21-2007, 11:48 AM
We can help stop the invasion here...http://www.grassfire.org/index.htm
Pass it around to your friends

Big Warlock
09-21-2007, 11:58 AM
Someone, anyone please, please show me the line of unemployed Americans?????
Again, read the first post in this thread. There was a small math test there and it is very revealing!!

2Driver
09-21-2007, 12:03 PM
Someone, anyone please, please show me the line of unemployed Americans?????
Again, read the first post in this thread. There was a small math test there and it is very revealing!!
I did. I guess what I am saying is the real issues wont be addressed until real pain hits and real issues HAVE to be addresed. Today solutions... same wound different bandaid.

Big Warlock
09-21-2007, 12:06 PM
At the lake last year, I met up with a young lady, approximately 28 years old who was interesting in applying for a CFO job she read about on some internet site. They were looking for someone with ten years experience, MBA minimum or CPA / Master's in Finance preferably. I asked what qualifications she had. She told me she had her high school diploma and three years of doing accounts payable and receivables. She knew the CFO at the office and he really didn't do that much. She was actually carrying the load around there. I asked her if she could tell me the five financial statements and what they meant? Nope. I asked her about fed, state and payroll taxes? No experience. I asked who she knew in banking? Nobody. she then told me that really all she needed was a chance and someone to show her the ropes, then she could handle the job.
This is the short version of a painful story. But that is the problem. No one wants to work for anything. Someone is supposed to give people a chance and then they can do it!! Your and my success is solely based on that! Not that any of us busted our ass, went to college, served in the military, mortgaged our homes to pay for a business, sacrificed at night school, drove trucks, worked construction, etc. etc. Most people in this country want something for free!! And there is no focking people standing around looking for a job. And there certainly is a shortage of skilled labor all over America!!
My .02

Jordy
09-21-2007, 12:11 PM
At the lake last year, I met up with a young lady, approximately 28 years old who was interesting in applying for a CFO job she read about on some internet site.
I almost forgot about that. HILARIOUS to say the least. :D :D :D

Big Warlock
09-21-2007, 12:21 PM
Here's one for you Big warlock, In the US these past few years the population growth has equalled the number of 'invaders"(illegals)=CRIMINALS 1 to 1. That means that we are doing absolutely ziltch when it comes to making this a better country and only adding to the criminal element.
Rio:
I think you don't get it. If the population is growing by the number of illegals entering the country, how is that tied to the prison population? Do you really think that people are thinking, "hey let's go commit a felony and run into USA?" Really? Most are here to improve their lives. About 99% would prefer to have a work visa, but it's not possible (too much red tape and time, up to three years). Is there a criminal element? There is in every statistical population, legal and illegal. Would it be easier to track the illegals if you had a guest worker program? Absolutely! At least they would be finger printed, picture taken and given a number. Right now you don't have shiat! And you also don't have a chance to stop them. You all talk a big game, but you won't do anything about it. At least I acknowledge the problem and propose a solution.
Do you understand that our economy is based on capitalism? Without growth, it dies. So the more people, the better it gets. HOwever, it needs to be controlled growth and resources need to be grown with the population. That's a whole economic class in itself!
Do really think they don't pay into the tax system? Then you don't understand the tax code my friend! They pay just as much as you and I (as a percentage). Should they have access to the social welfare system? No, I don't believe in that, nor the use of emergency rooms for medical services. But I do believe in a worker's program.
There isn't a big push (labor) on hotel help, car wash people, labor intensive farm hands, construction workers, etc. etc. They are not out there. There are more Americans getting handouts that illegal immigrants. Maybe we ought to track their asses down first and get them back into the fold???

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 01:01 PM
You don't sound like a hippy. You just sound ignorant! Every African pigmy and every bushman from Australia's outback is concidered human so tell me Mz Wizard, do you actually think we can take in all of these humans that can't take care of themselves and support them on our backs? If you want to try and support the rest of the world then fine but you do it on YOUR own nickle but as far as the rest of are concerned ->F um<-. If they were productive members of society that may be one thing but all we are getting are the dregs of society. The ignorant, the no skill type individuals. We are going for the lowest common denominator not the highest.
If you saw what I was making that comment in reference to, then you you would have understood me better.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u299/mkepler1/gun.jpg
If you think it is funny to joke about shooting an illegal in the face, then so be it. I didn't.
I believe it is a bigger sign of ignorance to not be able to have a civil debate about a subject without calling people names, or discounting their intelligence level for what they think.

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 01:03 PM
Rio:
I think you don't get it. If the population is growing by the number of illegals entering the country, how is that tied to the prison population? Do you really think that people are thinking, "hey let's go commit a felony and run into USA?" Really? Most are here to improve their lives. About 99% would prefer to have a work visa, but it's not possible (too much red tape and time, up to three years). Is there a criminal element? There is in every statistical population, legal and illegal. Would it be easier to track the illegals if you had a guest worker program? Absolutely! At least they would be finger printed, picture taken and given a number. Right now you don't have shiat! And you also don't have a chance to stop them. You all talk a big game, but you won't do anything about it. At least I acknowledge the problem and propose a solution.
Do you understand that our economy is based on capitalism? Without growth, it dies. So the more people, the better it gets. HOwever, it needs to be controlled growth and resources need to be grown with the population. That's a whole economic class in itself!
Do really think they don't pay into the tax system? Then you don't understand the tax code my friend! They pay just as much as you and I (as a percentage). Should they have access to the social welfare system? No, I don't believe in that, nor the use of emergency rooms for medical services. But I do believe in a worker's program.
There isn't a big push (labor) on hotel help, car wash people, labor intensive farm hands, construction workers, etc. etc. They are not out there. There are more Americans getting handouts that illegal immigrants. Maybe we ought to track their asses down first and get them back into the fold???
Well said....

Glamasu
09-21-2007, 01:46 PM
Maybe I sound like a hippie right now, but they are still human :(
Death row is occupied by "humans".
Do you think they should open the door and let them out? Maybe give them a number so they can be "documented"?

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 02:14 PM
Death row is occupied by "humans".
Do you think they should open the door and let them out? Maybe give them a number so they can be "documented"?
Somehow I don't think that the crimes they committed to get themselves on Death row are even close to the "crime" of crossing the border and working a job. Not even close.

CA Stu
09-21-2007, 03:04 PM
Somehow I don't think that the crimes they committed to get themselves on Death row are even close to the "crime" of crossing the border and working a job. Not even close.
What, you mean that wanting to feed your family and being willing to trespass to better your life isn't equal to raping and murdering? :confused:
Are you sure? :confused:
Big Warlock, you are a sharp guy. Thanks for your intelligent, reasoned contribution.
Stand by for a big angry borderline illiterate response .... :D
Thanks
CA Stu

Mrs. 20
09-21-2007, 04:22 PM
What, you mean that wanting to feed your family and being willing to trespass to better your life isn't equal to raping and murdering? :confused:
Are you sure? :confused:
Big Warlock, you are a sharp guy. Thanks for your intelligent, reasoned contribution.
Stand by for a big angry borderline illiterate response .... :D
Thanks
CA Stu
LOL:D I'm ready for it

20" gun's
09-21-2007, 05:24 PM
All I can say is I am not picking potatoes, and I cant get a White or Black guy to dig a trench. Oh man, those Mexican's work hard for there money. I wish my employees had some of those work ethics. I would need half the staff to complete my jobs. :idea:

'75 Miller
09-21-2007, 05:52 PM
We should give every illegal the same treatment given to the infected cows.....problem solved.

Biglue
09-21-2007, 06:02 PM
no welfare and a hungry tummy are a good motivator................
Do you know what level of motivation it takes to cross illegally into this country? Just as you said "hungry tummy". Not being able to feed yourself or your family is one hell of a motivator. I believe it also drives a person's work ethic. That is why you get people observing and reacting like in this quote.
I cant get a White or Black guy to dig a trench. Oh man, those Mexican's work hard for there money. I wish my employees had some of those work ethics. I would need half the staff to complete my jobs.
That is in no way a slam to Blacks and Anglos. I get guys who work for me who bitch and moan about certain jobs I task them to do including other Mexican cats in their 20's. I ask one of the older Mexicans who work for me, and they're on it. They do a better job and less time without the hassles. Not every immigrant legal or illegal is here to mooch of the system. If you took the time to look at the big picture, most of the immigrants here in the US are in search of a better life. They're humble and hard working. And the one thing I see in more of those people than anyone else is the loyalty they demostrate to a person or people who has lent them a hand. If there was a way to educate people entering the US of the requirements to benefit from the opportunity that America provides, there wouldn't be all this misguided type of opinion about how all immigrants are all trash. My family came here as immigrants and we have accomplished the American Dream. Everyone here on this forum has had their family accomplish the exact thing in some past generation. Some of us just seem to forget it. Just my .02

totenhosen
09-21-2007, 06:44 PM
I'd still rather have an illegal hard working person than a f-ing bum collecting welfare. At least they are making some what of a postive contribution to the country. F-it give them citizenship if they are willing to serve in the armed forces for a 4 year stint.

Hal
09-21-2007, 07:07 PM
Real time stats...
http://immigrationcounters.com/

Jesster
09-21-2007, 08:12 PM
If you take the stats one step futher you find that if 39.7% of the prison pop is white and 18.5% is hispanic and the total pop of the prison system in 1996 was ~597K and the pop of the US was 262 ~ Million them the percentage of whites in prison by population is ~
.124% the Pop of Hispanics in prison by population is ~ .22% thats pretty close to double the crime rate hispanic Vs. White by population. If my math is wrong its because I am a product of the overburdened public school system.:D

bignet
09-21-2007, 08:20 PM
Do you know what level of motivation it takes to cross illegally into this country? Just as you said "hungry tummy". Not being able to feed yourself or your family is one hell of a motivator. I believe it also drives a person's work ethic. That is why you get people observing and reacting like in this quote.
That is in no way a slam to Blacks and Anglos. I get guys who work for me who bitch and moan about certain jobs I task them to do including other Mexican cats in their 20's. I ask one of the older Mexicans who work for me, and they're on it. They do a better job and less time without the hassles. Not every immigrant legal or illegal is here to mooch of the system. If you took the time to look at the big picture, most of the immigrants here in the US are in search of a better life. They're humble and hard working. And the one thing I see in more of those people than anyone else is the loyalty they demostrate to a person or people who has lent them a hand. If there was a way to educate people entering the US of the requirements to benefit from the opportunity that America provides, there wouldn't be all this misguided type of opinion about how all immigrants are all trash. My family came here as immigrants and we have accomplished the American Dream. Everyone here on this forum has had their family accomplish the exact thing in some past generation. Some of us just seem to forget it. Just my .02
Good point Biglue....we can't forget where we came from, and I am all about creating a law or laws that will make it legal for immigrants to earn a living and pay taxes like everyone else. I know many immigrants that want to do just that, and are willing to pay for every penny they earn. It's a shame many HBers put every illegal immigrant into the same ball of wax and assume all immigrants are about beating the system.....but it's ok for big business and millionaires to beat the system...they do it all the time.
My .02
:devil:
bignet

Jordy
09-21-2007, 08:24 PM
Come here legally and noone has a problem.................pretty simple.
Scott,
That's where the problem lies. Coming here legally, as I have come to understand it, is a 3-5 year progression. In the mean time, we need shore term worker visas, so as Big Warlock has pointed out, at least we know where the workers are.
Face it, how many lazy white people on welfare ( I'm picking an easy target) really want to get out and dig ditches, wash cars, pick fruit (all of which I have done to make money when I was in school) when they can sit home on their fat asses and do nothing and make MORE money.
I have a contractor friend who needed some day labor (dating back about 10 years ago), day labor consitsting of nothing backbreaking, just picking up scraps on a jobsite. He saw a guy standing on a corner with a "WILL WORK FOR FOOD" sign and struck up a conversation. Back then, the minimum wage was under $5 an hour, just for a point of reference. He offered to take the guy to his jobsite, have him work for $10 an hour CASH, buy him lunch, and dinner, and then give him a ride back to WHEREVER he wanted to go... seems pretty generous...
The guy's response:
F*&K YOU!!! I'll make more money standing here today.
I can guaranty that today he could find a guy who would be glad to do the same stuff for $5 an hour. He might not be legally here though.

bignet
09-21-2007, 08:31 PM
Scott,
That's where the problem lies. Coming here legally, as I have come to understand it, is a 3-5 year progression. In the mean time, we need shore term worker visas, so as Big Warlock has pointed out, at least we know where the workers are.
Face it, how many lazy white people on welfare ( I'm picking an easy target) really want to get out and dig ditches, wash cars, pick fruit (all of which I have done to make money when I was in school) when they can sit home on their fat asses and do nothing and make MORE money.
I have a contractor friend who needed some day labor (dating back about 10 years ago), day labor consitsting of nothing backbreaking, just picking up scraps on a jobsite. He saw a guy standing on a corner with a "WILL WORK FOR FOOD" sign and struck up a conversation. Back then, the minimum wage was under $5 an hour, just for a point of reference. He offered to take the guy to his jobsite, have him work for $10 an hour CASH, buy him lunch, and dinner, and then give him a ride back to WHEREVER he wanted to go... seems pretty generous...
The guy's response:
F*&K YOU!!! I'll make more money standing here today.
I can guaranty that today he could find a guy who would be glad to do the same stuff for $5 an hour. He might not be legally here though.
I will get crucified for agreeing with you Jordy, but u pretty much hit the nail on the head.
:devil:
bignet

Jesster
09-21-2007, 08:39 PM
Good point Biglue....we can't forget where we came from, and I am all about creating a law or laws that will make it legal for immigrants to earn a living and pay taxes like everyone else. I know many immigrants that want to do just that, and are willing to pay for every penny they earn. It's a shame many HBers put every illegal immigrant into the same ball of wax and assume all immigrants are about beating the system.....but it's ok for big business and millionaires to beat the system...they do it all the time.
My .02
:devil:
bignet
Every illegal immigrant here is beating the system in at least one way. If big business and millionaires are beating the system then lets take care of that also. But 2 wrongs don't make a right. We did come from somewhere else, all of us but the Native Americans. But we came here legally willing to learn the language, and pledge allegiance to this country. I don’t think anybody is against immigration as long as its legal. Is the system slow? yes. but if we let them come as fast as they want to come it wouldn’t matter how fast the system was, it couldn’t keep up. The only thing that would work as far as they are concerned is an open border. This country can't support the illegal’s that are already here much less all the ones that would like to be here. I for one think we pay enough in taxes, but let’s take a vote and all those for illegal immigration can pay for it in extra taxes and those who are against it don’t pay extra. See how fast the illegal’s are made to leave then.

Biglue
09-21-2007, 08:59 PM
I was in no way arguing that illegal immigration is OK. Believe me, I am just as pissed as the next guy about all the taxes as the next person. I do not enjoy that some one without desire to get ahead is supported by the taxes I pay, Blacks, Browns or Whites.
I've been gainfully employed since I was 16 and did the paper route thing and odd jobs before that. It's just a thing my parents instilled with me about a strong work ethic. With that said, I can't help but notice that everytime these illegal immigrant rants pop up it's always concentrated on Hispanics, Mexicans, Central Americans etc. Very rarely is another race ever mentioned. Think about it people, you can't help but wonder if there is some underlying message there. Being Hispanic there is some offense to be taken within that. Hope that makes sense.

bignet
09-21-2007, 09:13 PM
Every illegal immigrant here is beating the system in at least one way. If big business and millionaires are beating the system then lets take care of that also. But 2 wrongs don't make a right. We did come from somewhere else, all of us but the Native Americans. But we came here legally willing to learn the language, and pledge allegiance to this country. I don’t think anybody is against immigration as long as its legal. Is the system slow? yes. but if we let them come as fast as they want to come it wouldn’t matter how fast the system was, it couldn’t keep up. The only thing that would work as far as they are concerned is an open border. This country can't support the illegal’s that are already here much less all the ones that would like to be here. I for one think we pay enough in taxes, but let’s take a vote and all those for illegal immigration can pay for it in extra taxes and those who are against it don’t pay extra. See how fast the illegal’s are made to leave then.
I agree with u on some points, but also want to point out that it will be virtually impossible to get every illegal immigrant out of the US. You're talking about the exodus of 12 million immigrants. All the numbers point to the fact that it will cost billions to get rid of them. Not trying to stir the pot, but am pointing out logic. Even Pres. A+Hole Bush stated in his last State of the Union, that we've gotta find a way to get them visas or something. Who knows.
:devil:
bignet

Biglue
09-21-2007, 09:19 PM
What's going on Bignet? How are you doing bro?

Jesster
09-21-2007, 10:50 PM
I agree with u on some points, but also want to point out that it will be virtually impossible to get every illegal immigrant out of the US. You're talking about the exodus of 12 million immigrants. All the numbers point to the fact that it will cost billions to get rid of them. Not trying to stir the pot, but am pointing out logic. Even Pres. A+Hole Bush stated in his last State of the Union, that we've gotta find a way to get them visas or something. Who knows.
:devil:
bignet
Don't get me wrong, I know there is no way we could get rid of them at this point either. But what has been presented so far is not going to work either. For one the borders need to be secure if that takes draconian methods so be it, one way or another it has to be stopped.
Also the illegal’s that are here should, in my opinion, have no right to vote unless they complete everything required to become a citizen and that includes leaving and coming in the right way. If they don’t want to vote give them a work visa or whatever you want to call it. If after 5 years an illegal is caught without legally issued documentation deport them. They should also not be allowed to bring anybody with them that is not already here. And they should be required to start from scratch with the social security system. No credit for money paid. It wasn’t their SSN so ef em.
There is to much political correctness and to little common sense by our government, and to many illegal’s with a “somehow we are entitled to it” attitude. They are entitled to nothing. The only thing they have going for them is that it is unrealistic for us to throw them all out. My biggest problem isn’t that they are here it is what it costs us to have them here. The benefits are outweighed by the cost to us as a society.
The immigration system is there for a reason and that is to regulate the flow so the infrastructure can keep up. It is so far out of whack it may never catch up. Think about how the freeway system in CA would be if we were to take all the illegal’s off the road.. Not to mention the school systems.

Jesster
09-21-2007, 11:01 PM
Quick note regarding the freeway systems, all the studies done on the illegal contribution take into account taxes that are paid services used and such and it is still upside down (they use much more than they contribute) I wonder what it would look like if you took into account lost hours because of our traffic situation. I remember “The day the Mexicans stood still” my commute to work and back was incredibly fast.

Jesster
09-21-2007, 11:11 PM
I agree with u on some points, but also want to point out that it will be virtually impossible to get every illegal immigrant out of the US. You're talking about the exodus of 12 million immigrants. All the numbers point to the fact that it will cost billions to get rid of them. Not trying to stir the pot, but am pointing out logic. Even Pres. A+Hole Bush stated in his last State of the Union, that we've gotta find a way to get them visas or something. Who knows.
:devil:
bignet
Just out of curiosity how many billions is the projection because over the last 10 years it has cost the taxpayer a half trillion dollars to have them here. I wonder what the cost benifit would look like.

Glamasu
09-22-2007, 12:11 AM
No we did not forget how are grandparents came here, mine all did it :"LEGALLY"!! THATS THE POINT !!! They may be hard working, but here "ILLEGALLY" does not make it right !!! Come here legally and noone has a problem.................pretty simple.
THAT my friends is the fricken POINT>>>>>>>LEGALLY!!!!!!MS FRICKEN 20"S FRICKEN LEGALLY!!!
Youll have to excuse my yelling....I have found the bottom of the JACK bottle tonite

Glamasu
09-22-2007, 12:18 AM
Somehow I don't think that the crimes they committed to get themselves on Death row are even close to the "crime" of crossing the border and working a job. Not even close.
This is the first crime..crossing the border illegally...Obviously no one you care about works in law enforcement.. they would have educated you on the PATTERNS that will follow.
Crossing the border illegally is a crime...why would you give them the opportunity to commit a 2nd ???? or a 3rd???
Maybe I sound like a hippie here but....

Moneypitt
09-22-2007, 12:24 AM
Why is it when you put the word alien after the word ILLEGAL it somehow takes on a whole new meaning????? ILLEGAL means against the LAW, period........end of story...........MP
Is there a closed season on invaders to OUR country? If not, lets all give them a "good ol' boys" welcome, remember all those old 30-30 rounds?
.............Hell, we could even give awards to the ones with the most kills.............The very idea that US choppers drop water and food to these idiots is enough to make me refuse to pay taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rexone
09-22-2007, 12:38 AM
I don't feel like typing it again so I'll just post a link to post #52 (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2790307#post2790307)
Watch the video at the bottom of my sig if you think illegal immigration will not destroy the US as we know it. It puts a whole new light on the scope of the issue and what your children and grandchildren will have for a life.
I also think a controlled guest worker program is a good answer at this point. Bring here for a couple years, adios. No free services either and no anchor babies.
:)

Glamasu
09-22-2007, 12:53 AM
I don't feel like typing it again so I'll just post a link to post #52 (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2790307#post2790307)
Watch the video at the bottom of my sig if you think illegal immigration will not destroy the US as we know it. It puts a whole new light on the scope of the issue and what your children and grandchildren will have for a life.
I also think a controlled guest worker program is a good answer at this point. Bring here for a couple years, adios. No free services either and no anchor babies.
:)
The 2nd paragraph of post #52 says it all.....says it all well at that
(too bad it wasn't post 51...we coul really have fun with that)

Hal
09-22-2007, 01:22 AM
I was looking for that video... Everyone needs to see it.:jawdrop: :(

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 08:10 AM
THAT my friends is the fricken POINT>>>>>>>LEGALLY!!!!!!MS FRICKEN 20"S FRICKEN LEGALLY!!!
Youll have to excuse my yelling....I have found the bottom of the JACK bottle tonite
Did you not read where I said I would like a guest worker program? My point to you was that the picture you posted was not humane. Has nothing to do with what the other gentleman said. I think everyone would like to find a solution here.

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 08:16 AM
BigWarlock, I didn't make myself clear. Sorry. The US population growth = the number of illegals. Basically what the stats said was that if there were NO illegals then the US would be at 0 population growth. These are not my figures but the figure of 11 million illegals is the same as our population expanded for that year.
This has nothing to do with the prison population. I was referring to illegals as criminals due to the fact that they broke the law by entering the country illegally.
I said nothing about them not paying taxes and am well aware of the tax code etc. I am doubting that the taxes they pay in offsets the benefits that they derive from the system. While it is without a doubt that they pay sales tax the same as all of the rest of us the income tax and all other associated taxes that are supposed to be paid by the employers for said workers are nil. These are not rocket scientists, doctors, shysters, or any other of the highest earners hence the income tax paid is meaningless.
BigW, we really don't disagree and we do need a solution. "THEY" are gonna keep coming! This is true. The part I resist is that "THEY" don't know the difference between right and wrong. "THEY" are going to keep coming and "THEY" don't care whether "THEY" do it legally or illegally. It doesn't make any difference to them whether "THEY break our laws or not. "THEY" don't give a rat's ass about our laws or anything else as long as they get what they want. How "THEY" do it has no bearing upon them. "THEY" don't give a damn about whether we want them here or not as long as "THEY get what "THEY" want.
20guns, it is totally irrelevant to the conversation as to whether "THEY" are good workers or not. After "THEY" get here legally then hire whomever does the best job for you but until then obey the law and hire people that HAVE gone by the rules and gotten here legally.
CA STU, STFU, you're nothing more than an illegal that got away with it and if you think for one minute that there is any respect for you here on this board you are sadly mistaken. Your opinion means nothing as you are just a pos that slipped thru the system.
Mrs20->"Somehow I don't think that the crimes they committed to get themselves on Death row are even close to the "crime" of crossing the border and working a job. Not even close."
That's not the point. THEY are criminals>>> what part of that do you not understand? How can they be taken seriously when the very first thing they do is break a law?
Let's see if I can make this simple for you to understand. My name is Pedro and I just wanna be a good upstanding citizen and work and pay taxes and have a better life for myself and my family. In order to do this I just need a few thousand bucks to get started so I'll go rob a bank. Then I'll can start my new life, get a job, and pay my taxes. I just broke one little law so we can just forget about it and start from scratch. It was only a leetle moneys!
Where do we draw the line at which laws we can ignore?
It's hunting season and there is nothing I'd like better than to get my dog and rifle and go hunting for ****tard idiots from england. Just cap um in the knee and watch them wiggle. NOT legal so I guess I'm outta luck cuz I won't break the law just cuz I want to. That's the difference. STFU CA STUPID, nothing says I can't sprinkle snail poison outside your front door.
I'm really not against anyone that wants to better their lot in life. I don't much care if they're brown, black, white or pink. I just believe that by following the laws is the only way to maintain an orderly society in which everyone can get the most out of this country and I see no reason what-so-ever to make an exception just because one group doesn't feel like thay should have to abide by the laws that everyone else does. Do they think they are God's gift to earth and are something special? Get the fu(k back in line and do it the right way and then I might have some respect for them.
Rio
Your post actually made me laugh. And your comments to CAL stu are ridiculous to say the least. It's sad that you think the only way to get your point across is to be an a**hole.:rolleyes: It's very hard to take you seriously.

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 08:24 AM
This is the first crime..crossing the border illegally...Obviously no one you care about works in law enforcement.. they would have educated you on the PATTERNS that will follow.
Crossing the border illegally is a crime...why would you give them the opportunity to commit a 2nd ???? or a 3rd???
Maybe I sound like a hippie here but....
Death row is occupied by "humans".
Do you think they should open the door and let them out? Maybe give them a number so they can be "documented"?
So are you implying the patterns that follow are in most cases rape and murder? Does that mean that you really think that the illegals being here are the equivalent of releasing death row inmates?
Again, there is no decent legal system right now for them to come here and work for 3 years. They have to wait "in line" 3-5 years. There are solutions. Them all leaving in a mass exodus is not one of them. With guest worker programs we can keep track of where they are, just like the rest of us.

Blown 472
09-22-2007, 08:34 AM
So are you implying the patterns that follow are in most cases rape and murder? Does that mean that you really think that the illegals being here are the equivalent of releasing death row inmates?
Again, there is no decent legal system right now for them to come here and work for 3 years. They have to wait "in line" 3-5 years. There are solutions. Them all leaving in a mass exodus is not one of them. With guest worker programs we can keep track of where they are, just like the rest of us.
Are you some bleeding heart lib or some sorta crap? wtf you are ok with them overrunning our country? sad.

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 08:38 AM
I don't feel like typing it again so I'll just post a link to post #52 (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2790307#post2790307)
Watch the video at the bottom of my sig if you think illegal immigration will not destroy the US as we know it. It puts a whole new light on the scope of the issue and what your children and grandchildren will have for a life.
I also think a controlled guest worker program is a good answer at this point. Bring here for a couple years, adios. No free services either and no anchor babies.
:)
That was a very good video. Thanks for sharing. I agree with everything you just said.

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 08:40 AM
Are you some bleeding heart lib or some sorta crap? wtf you are ok with them overrunning our country? sad.
I am actually a republican. I don't think you read what I said. I don't want them overrunning the country. I want a guest worker program. :confused:

Big Warlock
09-22-2007, 08:45 AM
I am actually a republican. I don't think you read what I said. I don't want them overrunning the country. I want a guest worker program. :confused:
Ditto!!!
Some of you need to read the WHOLE thread. I don't think we are that far apart. I do think some works needs to be done regarding public schools! :)

cave
09-22-2007, 09:17 AM
Simple solution, Follow the laws that are on the books today. Convict those who hire them & take away there ability to run, operate & manage any business. They all go home. For every dollar that is sent to Mexico it cost them 95 cent.:eek: That's right they can pay up for all they have taken.
We for too long have been blinded by our need for cheap unskilled labor. You get what you pay for. :o Get in line. Learn English. Pledge allegiance to our flag and forget you allegiance to Mexico, you loose them on this one hands down. Then you can earn the dream. Its not a right to be here its a privilege. Break the law loose the privilege. Right? By by. The systems not broke. No one enforced it. We are the enforcers not the government. Who is building your house? did you ask the contractor if he hires illegals? Who is in your home servicing crapper? you see you should be concerned who is here and maybe working in or around your home. The broke the law just by being here illegally. You think they care about the law?
Again get in line, Learn English, take the pledge. Then burn the flag of you birth place. Hey most hippies do this last part religiously. ;)
For too long I have heard "we cant hire any American to do this job". Of course not, you want to pay them like an Illegal. How do you expect to get a person who earns a trade to give away their knowledge. If you hire them you are part of the problem and should be ashamed of that. You should also be kicked in the A$$ by every hard working citizen that has followed the rules & laws. Traitors you are:mad:
I read Rex's sig line many years ago. Thank you Rex. Its been there a mighty long time.

Blown 472
09-22-2007, 09:24 AM
I am actually a republican. I don't think you read what I said. I don't want them overrunning the country. I want a guest worker program. :confused:
Why???

Jordy
09-22-2007, 09:27 AM
Simple solution, Follow the laws that are on the books today. Convict those who hire them & take away there ability to run, operate & manage any business. They all go home.
Why???
OK, let's try this again:
1) There are approximately 12 million illegals working in America. There are approximately 4 million unemployed Americans. How exactly will that work out for us?
So with 0% unemployment, which assumes that those who are unemployed really do want to work, we're still 8 million people short... Now what??? :idea:

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 10:19 AM
I have never put anyone-whether I agree with them or not- on the ignore feature as I do take everyone's opinion into consideration. You are the first who's comments I find totally worthless and of no value. Don't push it. You're not up to the task of the verbal sparring that goes down in these debates. Now back to the kitchen, bedroom, laundryroom, or where ever that keeps hubby happy.
CA STUpid is still a hypocrit.
Do you find my comments worthless because I am a female???:confused:
There were many others here who said the same thing as me, yet I am the only one who gets told by you "go back to the kitchen"???
This is the third time now in this thread that you have called me worthless/ignorant/stupid for saying the exact same thing that many others here have said. Do you feel like a big man now???
You're probably right. This FNG should probably have not spoken my opinion about this. My only purpose here should be to put up revealing photos and make mindless cute comments, right??? I'll leave you men to your intelligent conversation Rio.:rolleyes:

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 10:24 AM
Simple solution, Follow the laws that are on the books today. Convict those who hire them & take away there ability to run, operate & manage any business. They all go home. For every dollar that is sent to Mexico it cost them 95 cent.:eek: That's right they can pay up for all they have taken.
We for too long have been blinded by our need for cheap unskilled labor. You get what you pay for. :o Get in line. Learn English. Pledge allegiance to our flag and forget you allegiance to Mexico, you loose them on this one hands down. Then you can earn the dream. Its not a right to be here its a privilege. Break the law loose the privilege. Right? By by. The systems not broke. No one enforced it. We are the enforcers not the government. Who is building your house? did you ask the contractor if he hires illegals? Who is in your home servicing crapper? you see you should be concerned who is here and maybe working in or around your home. The broke the law just by being here illegally. You think they care about the law?
Again get in line, Learn English, take the pledge. Then burn the flag of you birth place. Hey most hippies do this last part religiously. ;)
For too long I have heard "we cant hire any American to do this job". Of course not, you want to pay them like an Illegal. How do you expect to get a person who earns a trade to give away their knowledge. If you hire them you are part of the problem and should be ashamed of that. You should also be kicked in the A$$ by every hard working citizen that has followed the rules & laws. Traitors you are:mad:
I read Rex's sig line many years ago. Thank you Rex. Its been there a mighty long time.
That law was just passed in Arizona actually, and takes place January 1st. Anyone who hires illegals will lose their license. We also have to use the Basic Pilot program to verify citizenship, where as before it was voluntary. My employees have also been learning about how to spot fake documentation, since there is a lot of identity theft involved. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction.

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 10:24 AM
Why???
They aren't just going to disappear now.

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 10:25 AM
OK, let's try this again:
So with 0% unemployment, which assumes that those who are unemployed really do want to work, we're still 8 million people short... Now what??? :idea:
Exactly.

Blown 472
09-22-2007, 10:28 AM
They aren't just going to disappear now.
We can make them disappear. Huge cattle drive south.

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 10:29 AM
We can make them disappear. Huge cattle drive south.
:D If only...

Big Warlock
09-22-2007, 10:46 AM
I am going to go out on a limb here and bet that the Feds step in before the end of the year. Az. law will not go into effect. You heard it here first!! :)
And for all the shiat house lawyers in here, read the manual kids!!! If some guy looks hispanic and his name might be "Manuel Jose Rodriguez", and he produces 2 forms of ID, it is NOT the emplorers right to decide if that ID is false or not. In fact, you can be prosecuted for discrimination by denying that person employment because you think he has false ID. (If it has Mickey Mouse and the Magic Kingdon on the face, ok, your cool with that one!) As an employer, you need to have your I-9 s completed and on file. I am hispanic and my last name is hispanic and if my emplorer denies my application on the basis that he thinks I am illegally in this country, his butt will be mine!!:D (That's right Jordy, let his stupid ass try it!!!) Now I know you guys all know this stuff because you are all VPs of human resource.
(Oh crap, this is Hot Boat, not Legal Aid for Jackass's site!!! My bad!!!) :D :D

ULTRA26 # 1
09-22-2007, 10:53 AM
I don't feel like typing it again so I'll just post a link to post #52 (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2790307#post2790307)
Watch the video at the bottom of my sig if you think illegal immigration will not destroy the US as we know it. It puts a whole new light on the scope of the issue and what your children and grandchildren will have for a life.
I also think a controlled guest worker program is a good answer at this point. Bring here for a couple years, adios. No free services either and no anchor babies.
:)
I think a guest worker program has become a necessity. Read recently where CA farmers are moving to MX for legal labor. This is where the new MX truck issues are coming from.
The entire immigration issue, legal and illegal, if not dealt with will destroy this Country.

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 10:59 AM
I am going to go out on a limb here and bet that the Feds step in before the end of the year. Az. law will not go into effect. You heard it here first!! :)
And for all the shiat house lawyers in here, read the manual kids!!! If some guy looks hispanic and his name might be "Manuel Jose Rodriguez", and he produces 2 forms of ID, it is NOT the emplorers right to decide if that ID is false or not. In fact, you can be prosecuted for discrimination by denying that person employment because you think he has false ID. (If it has Mickey Mouse and the Magic Kingdon on the face, ok, your cool with that one!) As an employer, you need to have your I-9 s completed and on file. I am hispanic and my last name is hispanic and if my emplorer denies my application on the basis that he thinks I am illegally in this country, his butt will be mine!!:D (That's right Jordy, let his stupid ass try it!!!) Now I know you guys all know this stuff because you are all VPs of human resource.
(Oh crap, this is Hot Boat, not Legal Aid for Jackass's site!!! My bad!!!) :D :D
I think you may be right. There is too much risk for the employers. This was a knee-jerk reaction by Napolitano in response to the falling through of a federal law being enacted. Not well though out. We are damned if we do, damned if we don't regarding fake id verification. So in the mean time, I have I-9's and copies of the id they presented. And currently taking training for Basic Pilot.

westair
09-22-2007, 11:12 AM
I am actually a republican. I don't think you read what I said. I don't want them overrunning the country. I want a guest worker program. :confused:
Guest worker program = Amnesty ... Bush thought he could call it something other than amnesty, but the people saw right through that. Beware he will repackage it and try again, Bush loves illegal immigration for some reason.

cave
09-22-2007, 11:29 AM
OK, let's try this again:
So with 0% unemployment, which assumes that those who are unemployed really do want to work, we're still 8 million people short... Now what??? :idea:
Jordy who says 12 million are employed? Even if it is 8 million then we could work it out for those who are willing to sponsor them. That's the law today. If you cant get someone to fill the spot you posted in the paper you can sponsor an employee. They can get a temporary work visa while waiting to get a full on green card. You see them on Chandler & Arizona Ave any many other streets waiting for a pick up truck to wave some fingers (how many to jump in the back not the bird).:D I see hundreds out there on Broadway & main and cops drive right by them. :idea: I call BS on this 12 / 8 million
The system isn't broke. We were hit by a tidal wave of illegals. Everyone turn a blind eye till they, the illegals all wanted the same rights as all of us and shut our streets down to wave their flag in our country. If you did that in Mexico you go to prison! They want our social programs but hate us for helping them. They Love there country whether its Mexico or Nicaragua or any other southern country they don't want to be assimilated. they want us to leave them alone. so they can change our country into their country. No blood spilled. Its a great way to win. Question is will we allow this to happen.
We could solve this in a weekend. We just need to get those POS people in Washington out. Replace all of those who side with the illegals. Republican or Democrat.
If they illegals win all these people in Washington will be voted out and their new reps will speaka spannich.
Now jordy move along and chop quote someone else:D

Jordy
09-22-2007, 11:49 AM
Now jordy move along and chop quote someone else:D
Sorry to chop up your rambling nonsense, but I was just tying to get to the key points you don't understand and that you keep proving that you don't understand. :notam: :D
I can see that math isn't your strong point, so I'll try again. I'll even use your 8 million figure to make it easier to understand. There are 4 million Americans who are unemployed. When the 8 million illegal workers are run out of the country, and the 4 million unemployed Americans are put to work, we're still 4 million workers short. :notam: :D
Like it or not, we need foreign workers to fill this deficit. Wouldn't things be better served with some type of worker program that would help alleviate some strain on the system??
If you have one bucket that holds 3 gallons and one bucket that holds 5 gallons, how many buckets do you have??? :idea: :notam:

Big Warlock
09-22-2007, 11:51 AM
Jordy who says 12 million are employed? :D
No one is saying there are 12 million unemployed.
Let's try again. These are approximate numbers.
The government says there are 4 million Americans unemployed.
The government says there are 12 million illegals working on payrolls.
Jordy was asking, as did I, if you have 12 million illegals and you remove them from the workforce, add the 4 million unemployed, where do the remaining 8 million people to replace them come from?
There's a TV show like this right now isn't there??? :D

Big Warlock
09-22-2007, 11:52 AM
Don't get so fast on the button Jordy, I am trying to multi task here at the office. Hot Boat is killing my productivity again today!!!! :D

Jordy
09-22-2007, 11:53 AM
Everyone turn a blind eye till they, the illegals all wanted the same rights as all of us and shut our streets down to wave their flag in our country.
Oh, and the Mexican flag waving thing pisses me off too!!! :mad:
Apparently they've realized that might not be sending the message they would like to send as at the last few assemblies I've seen, they've all been waving American flags. I train horned them anyway. :D

Big Warlock
09-22-2007, 11:55 AM
You can "copy", "Cheat" or "ask the other student". If all else fails, you were supposed to choose a student and if your answer is wrong and they have it right, then you get a save. Fock dude, watch the show!!!!:D

Jordy
09-22-2007, 11:57 AM
Fock dude, watch the show!!!!:D
I tried and it made me feel dumb. Give me a break, I only have a 1.5 GPA remember??? :D

Big Warlock
09-22-2007, 12:01 PM
This is good for my post count though...:idea:

Big Warlock
09-22-2007, 12:02 PM
only 20,000 and some change to catch up!!!!:eek:

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 01:04 PM
Aren't you guys supposed to be at Lake Pleasant all weekend???:idea:
Why are you still working?:D

speedymopars
09-22-2007, 02:14 PM
Hey, there isn't a problem with unchecked illegal immigration - just ask the American Indians. It all worked out for them, Right?
Seriously though, we should do what the immigrant country does.
Lets see starting with Mexico - if you are an illegal there, that is a felony and carries a 20 year prison sentence. HMM..but Vincente Fox says that his border doesn't end until Canada! ... So with my logic, anyone who is a mexican citizen who breaks into the county should be sent to prison for 20 years, then deported.
We let people in here legally - based on what our economy can stand...I would be really easy to bump the numbers up to let more in if that is really what was needed.

cave
09-22-2007, 02:17 PM
Fellas, I understand perfectly. The 8 million jobs created for 8 million illegals will be gone.:D So I have to wash my own trucks. No biggie, I can mow my own lawn. Trim my own palm trees. Clean my own pool. What the heck was I thinking. Please forgive me all knowledge ones for not being as smart as you both. :D
Looks like a few companies that made a killing hiring these people will be gone. So what. I'm not going to shed a tear for them. If they have a sound business plan they will find employable people. I know my competition is shitin their pants because of the new law we got here in AZ. Equal playing field now suckas. Believe me I know how hard it is to find employable people but If i can get it done i'm sure others can too.
BW, Quoting numbers from the government? Shame Shame.:D
its just the Internet guys. I'm not offended by :rolleyes: or anything else you post. I'm helping your post count ...:D
I think we all can agree there could be a simple solution if we had the right people in government.
OOh man look at the time, I need to go back to writing G-code. I do suck at math but this code shit is easy... PHP too. Be safe at pleasant.
;)

BadKachina
09-22-2007, 05:28 PM
After reading the title of the thread, and then reading this page with Rio's reply, I'm feeling the urge to go back and Read the entire thread to see what I've missed. I'm not really sure I have the extra time, what with all the other important activities I'm currently doing.
Would it be possible for some one to give me a quick outline or summary?:idea:

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 05:30 PM
You don't sound like a hippy. You just sound ignorant! Every African pigmy and every bushman from Australia's outback is concidered human so tell me Mz Wizard, do you actually think we can take in all of these humans that can't take care of themselves and support them on our backs? >
Rio
Mrs20->"Somehow I don't think that the crimes they committed to get themselves on Death row are even close to the "crime" of crossing the border and working a job. Not even close."
That's not the point. THEY are criminals>>> what part of that do you not understand? How can they be taken seriously when the very first thing they do is break a law?
Let's see if I can make this simple for you to understand.
Rio
So far you have impressed NOBODY with anything you have written so if you'd like to continue to be treated like a lady of which I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt->Stay the hell out of history of which you have NO knowlege.
Most people that show up on these forums have the intelligence to at least lurk for awhile and get to know the players before they start running at the yap. You obviously think that anything you have to say is relevant to any subject without knowing what the preamble contained. It's like reading a book whereas you started in the middle and think you know what the first 10 pages said.
You're not up to the task of the verbal sparring that goes down in these debates. Now back to the kitchen, bedroom, laundryroom, or where ever that keeps hubby happy.
I took the liberty of quoting all the remarks pertaining to how ignorant I am.
How you speak to everyone else does have bearing on how you speak to me in this thread. Contrary to what you believe about me parroting, I was one of the earlier posts to enter into this discussion. Please see post #13. If you would look back, you would see my contribution to this thread was not just parroting others. I actually do have a mind of my own.
Also, just so we can clear this up, I really don't care about post count, nor do I think that I have to have a higher post count in order to have my opinion be respected the same as everyone else. I would hope that at some point you are able to look past my count, because you seem to keep bringing it up.
My being a female had a lot to do with this, since you feel it is ok to tell me to go back to the kitchen, laundry room, etc. I doubt you would talk that way to any male here. I can handle anything that gets dished to me here. If I couldn't, then I would have avoided such a hot topic. I have only called you out on your rude behavior to me. Not on your beliefs about immigration.
Lastly, I will be first to apologize regarding your issues with Cal stu. If that is the way the two of you communicate, it is not by business to interfere. or judge.
Hopefully you can look back at this thread, and we can be more civil in the future.
"Tootsie":D

Mrs. 20
09-22-2007, 05:31 PM
After reading the title of the thread, and then reading this page with Rio's reply, I'm feeling the urge to go back and Read the entire thread to see what I've missed. I'm not really sure I have the extra time, what with all the other important activities I'm currently doing.
Would it be possible for some one to give me a quick outline or summary?:idea:
Just some normal, civil immigration discussion.
:D :D :D

Hal
09-22-2007, 09:37 PM
Whatch this....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&q=number

Hal
09-22-2007, 09:41 PM
Read this...
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html

BadKachina
09-22-2007, 10:14 PM
Hey Bad, what's the latest on your Buddy? Haven't heard much from him lately. I think I'll be in Mesa in a week or two, wanna get togather with the rest of my fan club and go pay him a visit? We'll grab a six and go visiting. LOL
Yeah, I'd love to. I saw him post the other day, it took all I could not to light him up. :mad:

Hal
09-23-2007, 03:01 AM
The Mexican president's state of the union address to the Mexican nation.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/04/Dobbs.Sept5/index.html

Big Warlock
09-23-2007, 10:27 AM
Fellas, I understand perfectly. The 8 million jobs created for 8 million illegals will be gone.:D So I have to wash my own trucks. No biggie, I can mow my own lawn. Trim my own palm trees. Clean my own pool.
I know my competition is shitin their pants because of the new law we got here in AZ.
;)
Glad you do understand it's just the internet. But let's agree to disagree.
1) 8 million jobs created FOR the illegal immigrants? You better tell the government, because your right, we can stop it then. We shouldn't just make up jobs and stuff. I was unaware there was no demand!!:eek:
2) Let's not forget in the "companies" you proclaim will get hit, ALL of the hospitailty business is going down right? Golf, restraunts, hotels, the works baby!! Oh, and already feeling the pinch from the housing crunch, the state has realized that their revenue projections will not be coming to fruition (sp?). So when they close all the hospitality business, right before Super Bowl, there is going to be a bit of a problem. which leads me to .....
3) I got lunch that says the new Az. law will never, ever go into effect. The state will allow the Feds to step in and act on the injunctions already filed by the above business organizations.
What say you my friend? Got lunch on this one??? :D Say by End of year??? :idea:

ULTRA26 # 1
09-23-2007, 11:44 AM
Glad you do understand it's just the internet. But let's agree to disagree.
1) 8 million jobs created FOR the illegal immigrants? You better tell the government, because your right, we can stop it then. We shouldn't just make up jobs and stuff. I was unaware there was no demand!!:eek:
2) Let's not forget in the "companies" you proclaim will get hit, ALL of the hospitailty business is going down right? Golf, restraunts, hotels, the works baby!! Oh, and already feeling the pinch from the housing crunch, the state has realized that their revenue projections will not be coming to fruition (sp?). So when they close all the hospitality business, right before Super Bowl, there is going to be a bit of a problem. which leads me to .....
3) I got lunch that says the new Az. law will never, ever go into effect. The state will allow the Feds to step in and act on the injunctions already filed by the above business organizations.
What say you my friend? Got lunch on this one??? :D Say by End of year??? :idea:
Rob,
I agree completely that the Feds will put a hault on the AZ law, and quickly