PDA

View Full Version : Uaw



Jbb
09-24-2007, 08:14 AM
On Strike!... (http://finance.comcast.net/www/news.html?x=http://www.comcast.net/data/news/2007/09/24/771104.xml&cvqh=itn_gm):(

Tequila-John
09-24-2007, 08:47 AM
glad to see they are standing up for what they believe is right!

Stoneman
09-24-2007, 09:22 AM
glad to see they are standing up for what they believe is right!
That's really going to help their slumping sales. Sales are down, so let's get more money!!!! Who cares if Toyota is kicking our ass, I want more money dammit!!!

RitcheyRch
09-24-2007, 09:43 AM
They can only hope for more money and hope their jobs are there when they come back.
Not a good situation for either party to be in.
That's really going to help their slumping sales. Sales are down, so let's get more money!!!! Who cares if Toyota is kicking our ass, I want more money dammit!!!

Tequila-John
09-24-2007, 10:04 AM
That's really going to help their slumping sales. Sales are down, so let's get more money!!!! Who cares if Toyota is kicking our ass, I want more money dammit!!!
I didnt see anywhere they were asking for more money. They are trying to protect there jobs from being out sourced. I have seen first hand what out sourcing can do to a co and there workers families..

centerhill condor
09-24-2007, 10:10 AM
that'll show 'em!
I've had many friends in the UAW and am, yet again, amazed by their view on economic reality. Talk about an attitude of entitlement.
This is, however, the fault of american automobile management. Lee Iococa's first autobiography quoted loosely, "we gave them whatever they wanted 'cause we were making sooo much money".
CC

asch
09-24-2007, 10:47 AM
yet again, amazed by their view on economic reality. Talk about an attitude of entitlement.
CC
Same here. My "Union" friends' logic (or lack thereof) on econmics and business kills me.

GoCiggie31
09-24-2007, 10:49 AM
I didnt see anywhere they were asking for more money. They are trying to protect there jobs from being out sourced. I have seen first hand what out sourcing can do to a co and there workers families..
I believe that if they (UAW) get their way and not have any outsourcing, then GM (and Ford) will both turn into speciality car companies with significant reduction of USA sales .
The current legacy cost are killing both MFG's. They need profitable USA volume to live with the workforce they currently have in North America.
Fyi, ford is profitable outside USA.

It's Only Money
09-24-2007, 11:01 AM
This is the dumbest strike of all time. GM is limping along (Ford too) and barely getting back to profitablity and then the jackasses at the UAW want to force the issue via a strike. It is the unrealistic compensation structure for the unskilled employees that got them into this mess. Look at a Toyota and its build quality and just try to compare any GM product to it. Unskilled and uncaring workers (read: Union) are responsible for the shabby workmanship. Total crap coming from the U.S. automobile companies. Let them strike. Then GM will outsource the complete car! No UNION workers needed.

DCarr
09-24-2007, 11:19 AM
That's really going to help their slumping sales. Sales are down, so let's get more money!!!! Who cares if Toyota is kicking our ass, I want more money dammit!!!
Where in the world did you read the UAW is asking for more money ???
One of the biggest issues is GM is wanting the UAW or someone else to take over the managing of the retiree's health care plan yet they only want to transfer 70 % of the funds to the new managers......
Some people need to actually listen and read what is going on rather than just spout out BS
A couple of the plants have agreed to give up ALL of their material delivery and sub assembly jobs to people who make 1/2 of the going line rate ........ thats a lot of decent paying jobs givin up w/o a fight and only asking for job security for the rest of the line workers.
GM has been given most everything they have asked for during these current negotiations, but yet when he it comes to what the UAW is asking for GM is standing strong against it.
Neither GM or the UAW want this strike or can afford for it to go on for very long ..............

DCarr
09-24-2007, 11:25 AM
This is the dumbest strike of all time. GM is limping along (Ford too) and barely getting back to profitablity and then the jackasses at the UAW want to force the issue via a strike. It is the unrealistic compensation structure for the unskilled employees that got them into this mess. Look at a Toyota and its build quality and just try to compare any GM product to it. Unskilled and uncaring workers (read: Union) are responsible for the shabby workmanship. Total crap coming from the U.S. automobile companies. Let them strike. Then GM will outsource the complete car! No UNION workers needed.
Another uninformed asswipe basing his thoughts off of 25 yr old rumors

Shreve"T"
09-24-2007, 12:00 PM
I agree with "Its only money". I first hand have watched what the UAW can do to a plant. I was in high management for a GM Supplier who provided the interior for the Colorado/Canyon and the H3 Hummer. In this same plant we also did the interior for the Nissan Titan and Armada.
The unions had a place in time for what they did. It dosnt take a genius to figure it out what they have done to todays economy. Just take a look at all the goods made over seas and the big 3 are no different. How can you secure jobs when you have people making 30+ dollars an hour for putting a sticker on a window 60 times within his shift.
The Shreveport GM plant like many others walked out today making 2/3 there salary for stricking. Mean time hurting GM and then wonder why plants are closing.

SB
09-24-2007, 12:09 PM
Where in the world did you read the UAW is asking for more money ???
One of the biggest issues is GM is wanting the UAW or someone else to take over the managing of the retiree's health care plan yet they only want to transfer 70 % of the funds to the new managers......
Some people need to actually listen and read what is going on rather than just spout out BS
A couple of the plants have agreed to give up ALL of their material delivery and sub assembly jobs to people who make 1/2 of the going line rate ........ thats a lot of decent paying jobs givin up w/o a fight and only asking for job security for the rest of the line workers.
GM has been given most everything they have asked for during these current negotiations, but yet when he it comes to what the UAW is asking for GM is standing strong against it.
Neither GM or the UAW want this strike or can afford for it to go on for very long ..............
Good answer.
If the UAW doesn't bargain on the retiree health-care, the manufacturers
won't have much choice but to move the plants out of the country.
This is fantastic news for GM. Their stock is up almost a buck already on the news of the strike. When they ain't making any money they don't care if they are building SUV's or not. They can hold out a lot longer than the union workers.

LaveyJet
09-24-2007, 12:11 PM
The issue isn't productivity, its health care for retirees. Back in the 60’s GM agreed to fund health care of retired workers. What other business does that?
Now they can’t afford it. People are living longer and health care costs have risen. GM wants to give a big pot of money to the union and let them handle retiree’s health care. The Union likes things the way they are,

DCarr
09-24-2007, 12:15 PM
I agree with "Its only money". I first hand have watched what the UAW can do to a plant. I was in high management for a GM Supplier who provided the interior for the Colorado/Canyon and the H3 Hummer. In this same plant we also did the interior for the Nissan Titan and Armada.
The unions had a place in time for what they did. It dosnt take a genius to figure it out what they have done to todays economy. Just take a look at all the goods made over seas and the big 3 are no different. How can you secure jobs when you have people making 30+ dollars an hour for putting a sticker on a window 60 times within his shift.
The Shreveport GM plant like many others walked out vtoday making 2/3 there salary for sricking. Mean time hurting GM and then wonder why plants are closing. Makes you wonder .....:D :D :D :D
More BS ..... The UAW is NOT asking for any hourly rate increases, actually they are looking at accepting a $ 6.00 per hour wage cut ... But the uninformed keep speaking what they heard years ago.
There is NO one making 30 + $ an hour ( on straight time ) for putting a single sticker on a car 60 times an hour. The guys putting stickers on the cars have a job load of AT LEAST 85 % and most are closer to 95 %. We had had a cycle rate of up to 83 JPH.
Without a doubt some people work a lot harder than others and get their job done in less time which in turn gives them more free time, but tell me of a trade where that cant happen.

hkunz
09-24-2007, 12:20 PM
The end result isn't about money, or not. In today's world, it is about perception, and there is no spin doctor in the world that can undo the negative connotations of a strike. GM is foundering, so the folks who depend upon GM for thier livlihood are trying to sink it? Doh.
This will be a repeat of previous strikes - GM will lose market share and productivity, further declining, and causing more layoffs.
I remember a big Boise-Cascade strike a few years back - what they asked for was money, what they got was the sawmill shut down, and the homes they lived in were abandoned, valueless - with no mill, the homes wouldn't sell. The town is now a ghost town, the strikers scattered.
Then we have the grocery strike a few years back - grocery workers out of work for five months, only coming back when they got the exact same deal initially offered - except - Ralph's completely pulled out, shut down, everyone out of work. The union bosses really helped these people.

Shreve"T"
09-24-2007, 12:30 PM
More BS ..... The UAW is NOT asking for any hourly rate increases, actually they are looking at accepting a $ 6.00 per hour wage cut ... But the uninformed keep speaking what they heard years ago.
There is NO one making 30 + $ an hour ( on straight time ) for putting a single sticker on a car 60 times an hour. The guys putting stickers on the cars have a job load of AT LEAST 85 % and most are closer to 95 %. We had had a cycle rate of up to 83 JPH.
Without a doubt some people work a lot harder than others and get their job done in less time which in turn gives them more free time, but tell me of a trade where that cant happen.
Now this is BS..I walk through the GM plant daily here and dont tell me what I dont see...I have been dealing with GM production for years..
Your right this strike is not about wage increases. But you pull what these ass clowns pull with smaller companies and see what happens to your job.

DCarr
09-24-2007, 01:02 PM
Now this is BS..I walk through the GM plant daily here and dont tell me what I dont see...I have been dealing with GM production for years..
Your right this strike is not about wage increases. But you pull what these ass clowns pull with smaller companies and see what happens to your job.
I've never been through the Shreveport plant, but I have driven through the town ... and all I can say is I understand why the workforce is what it is there. I've never been through a bigger sh*thole in my life.
Are you really going to try and give the impression to these people that NO one at Shreveport works their ass off and is worth the money they make ? Or that the majority of the work force sits around most of the day just raking in the big bucks ? Remember .. GM has agreed to every wage increase ...
You quoted my whole post but only disagreed with part of it, so being that your on the management side ( I take it ) who's to blame for accepting the work load situation ? I know what the work load is where I work and I know what its like to have surgery on my hands.
There are reasons the workloads are set up as they are, so management cant walk up to someone they dont like and force more work on them and put them well past their cycle time.
I'm sure many people ( maybe even you ) would like to see everyone on an assembly line loaded up 100 % not giving anyone a chance to make up for lost time due to a stripped or dropped fastner or a part that doesnt fit correctly ... but then you would just bitch about first time quality

Shreve"T"
09-24-2007, 01:06 PM
I've never been through the Shreveport plant, but I have driven through the town ... and all I can say is I understand why the workforce is what it is there ... I've never been through a bigger sh*thole in my life.
Are you really going to try and give the impression to these people that NO one at Shreveport works there ass off and is works the money they make ? Remember .. GM has agreed to every wage increase ...
You quoted my whole post but only disagreed with part of it, so being that your on the management side ( I take it ) who's to blame for accepting the work load situation ? I know what the work load is where I work and I know what its like to have surgery on my hands.
There are reasons the workloads are set up as they are, so management cant walk up to someone they dont like and force more work on them and put them well past their cycle time.
I'm sure many people ( maybe even you ) would like to see everyone on an assembly line loaded up 100 % not giving anyone a chance to make up for lost time due to a stripped or dropped fastner or a part that doesnt fit correctly ... but then you would just bitch about first time quality
Your part of the reason why our jobs are going over seas..WAKE UP !!!!!!To blast somebody for where they live is also man of ya....You my friend are an IDIOT

DCarr
09-24-2007, 01:08 PM
Your part of the reason why our jobs are going over seas..WAKE UP !!!!!!To blast somebody for where they live is also man of ya....You my friend are an IDIOT
Hey just speaking from experience ..... your the one blasting people for doing their job. And again .. you only respond to one of the points I made.
You have NO idea on what type of worker I am or what I do for the company I work for .. but yet I'm part of the reason " our " jobs are going overseas ..... I never realized how much power I have ..... hmmm.. what should I do next .
Have a good day !!

rrrr
09-24-2007, 01:55 PM
Facts are facts......GM has a $25-$30 hourly wage disadvantage to the foreign builders making cars in the US.
GM lost over $4,000 on every car it made in 2006.
Bring it on.

Froggystyle
09-24-2007, 02:41 PM
Workers "security" is a touchy issue. In my personal opinon, security comes from solid production, quality, efficiency and constant improvement.
To me, protecting workers doesn't solve any problems. If you are afraid you can be replaced by someone for $10 less per hour, you probably aren't worth $10 more per hour... no matter how long you have been doing it and for whom.
I have had employees feel they are irreplaceable. They aren't. Likewise, I have had employees that truly are irreplaceable, or very dangerous to have working on the open job market because of a high level of skills. Look at Tony, now at Eliminator as an example...
Tony used to work down here in El Cajon, and has always been a truly premium rigger. He was someone I tried to pick up, but he was happy where he was at, and frankly, he made quite a bit of money... higher than most that would be considered comps at any other company. Then he started his own business and rigged for some time until he was given the proverbial "offer you can't refuse" from Eliminator.
Lets just say that Tony's capability raised the bar for what you can expect to pay for a truly premium rigger that is consistently high quality, high reliability and highly skilled. THAT is job security. Do a better job than anyone else in the business, get paid the most.
If you think that someone putting 83 stickers on a car per hour needs job security... you are right. That job can be trained very, very easily to nearly anyone, and you certainly don't need to pay a union wage to accomplish it. Frankly, I am suprised it hasn't been given to a machine by now.
I saw an episode of "Amazing Factories" or something where a machine picks up a new Harley V-rod that has been put on a pallet and strapped in, puts a top on it, wraps strapping material around the box, crimps the bands and sets it on a conveyor belt.
Imagine how much money that cost to design, build, install and maintain... just to box and band a motorcycle. That tells me that not only in the long run, but also probably in the short run, it was cheaper to spend $500K+ on a purpose built machine then pay two people hourly to do the same job. Boggles the mind what those two people must cost in order for that to economically work...
I have never had a job that was capable of being outsourced. The work I have done over my adult life would be too complicated to standardize, quantify, supervise and QC for that to happen. It costs less to hire someone like me then it does to put the infrastructure into replicating what I can do.
The same cannot be said for the modern factory/production line worker. Lots and lots of people are out there waiting for a job like that.

DCarr
09-24-2007, 02:57 PM
Shreve "T" let me ask you something ..... Do you feel that EVERY person in Management is doing the best job that can be expected .. or is it possible that some of them have NO Business in a management posistion ? Do you know of ANY UAW Members who would make better supervisors than some of your counterparts ?
Do you know of anyone who was promoted to a higher posistion even though they were far from qualified and there were at least a few that were much better suited for the job ?
Do you know of any employee's who were unjustly walked out just because the Foreman had to make an example of someone ?
And I'm going to say this ... I've never been nominated for " Employee of the Week " or even of the hour, but I've known damn well that if I didnt do my job correctly that I wasnt going to have a job to do. And I honestly feel that is the same opinion carried by the vast majority of UAW members, thats why I hate to see it when people try to badmouth the UAW as a whole.
GM is in a hole and they had a role in creating the situation.

Froggystyle
09-24-2007, 03:41 PM
Do you know of any employee's who were unjustly walked out just because the Foreman had to make an example of someone ?
No. I have however seen situations where people prior to that infraction should have been let go but weren't, and once repeated, management had no choice but to make good on it's promise of termination.

GoCiggie31
10-02-2007, 07:24 AM
GM/UAW deal may pose problems for Ford, Chrysler
Negotiations could get complicated if Ford and Chrysler need “customized” contracts
Ford and Chrysler officials would not publicly comment about what the GM deal means for them. But industry analysts were reading between the lines of the UAW-GM contract, according to a report in the Detroit Free Press.
The analysts said it is clear that Ford and Chrysler need a customized deal, regardless of UAW president Ron Gettelfinger's calls for "a pattern" among contracts with automakers.
The UAW-GM deal contains many provisions beneficial specifically to GM and its UAW workforce. Some of those terms seem potentially damaging to Ford and Chrysler.
"Because the main feature of the agreement is relief on health care for retirees and GM has the highest active-to-retiree ratio, it's disproportionately better for GM," said John Casesa, managing partner of Casesa Shapiro Group in New York.
GM provides health benefits to more than four retirees and surviving spouses for every active worker it employs. Ford's ratio is two retirees for each active worker, and Chrysler's ratio is about one-to-one.
For Ford, the specificity of the GM agreement could force it to provide greater clarity about its turnaround plan, which aims to make the North American division profitable by 2009, said Arthur Wheaton, a labor expert from Cornell University. Ford may disclose the six remaining of 16 plants it plans to close as part of its restructuring.
Ford and Chrysler also face dealing with a component of the GM-UAW deal that allows GM to hire workers -- who would be UAW-represented -- for non-core jobs at lower pay. Ford is ahead of GM in outsourcing non-core jobs. Over the past two years, the UAW approved what are known as competitive operating agreements at Ford plants that allowed non-core jobs to be subcontracted out at lower pay.
Now, the GM-UAW deal raises the possibility Ford might have to pay those workers more and make them Ford employees
per DealersEdge.com Daily Headlines 10/01/07

Tequila-John
10-02-2007, 07:59 AM
should get interesting