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talkinghead
10-27-2007, 03:36 PM
I was recently recruited by Northrop Grumman and went through two (2) interviews.
After all of that, I was contacted by HR who told me it was a requirement that I submit my most recent paycheck stub so that my salary can be verified.
We had not even started any type of serious salary discussion!
In fact, I never even told them or put down my current salary.
Anyone else ever get this kind of request?
I think it's total BS.

scooooter7
10-27-2007, 03:45 PM
Maybe they just want to verify that you are currently employed. You can still negotiate what you want, if they want you that is.

talkinghead
10-27-2007, 03:47 PM
They stated they need to verify my salary - otherwise I could just blacken out that part.
In addition they want DMV records and Credit Report.

RiverDave
10-27-2007, 03:49 PM
I was recently recruited by Northrop Grumman and went through two (2) interviews.
After all of that, I was contacted by HR who told me it was a requirement that I submit my most recent paycheck stub so that my salary can be verified.
We had not even started any type of serious salary discussion!
In fact, I never even told them or put down my current salary.
Anyone else ever get this kind of request?
I think it's total BS.
When your working in aerospace (defense?) things like that become important for security reasons. It might seem like B.S. but in the grand scheme of things it is necesarry. (All of it)
RD

Rvr Swpr
10-27-2007, 03:55 PM
I would bet your present employer will help all they can for you to get a new job,asap.

BrendellaJet
10-27-2007, 03:58 PM
LOL, Ive got an excel spreadsheet that when printed out looks just like a paycheck stub...Want a raise????:D

OverKill
10-27-2007, 04:09 PM
Don't panic it's just a starting point on there behalf when they negotiate your salary. I had to do the same thing when I went to managment in the casino bizz.
OverKill

Essex29
10-27-2007, 04:34 PM
I was recently recruited by Northrop Grumman and went through two (2) interviews.
After all of that, I was contacted by HR who told me it was a requirement that I submit my most recent paycheck stub so that my salary can be verified.
We had not even started any type of serious salary discussion!
In fact, I never even told them or put down my current salary.
Anyone else ever get this kind of request?
I think it's total BS.
It's pretty much the norm these days. I was just hired on with a company that did a full backgroud check on me, credit, employment history, driving, education and yes, they not only asked for a paycheck, but last years w-2. No big deal if you've got nothing to hide. Be honest, they will find out eventually.

RitcheyRch
10-27-2007, 04:47 PM
Very true. I used to work for Northrop Grumman in El Segundo.
When your working in aerospace (defense?) things like that become important for security reasons. It might seem like B.S. but in the grand scheme of things it is necesarry. (All of it)
RD

GHT
10-27-2007, 04:51 PM
What location are you applying for? Heater (on the boards) works for NG in OKC now maybe he could give you some pointers and maybe help?

talkinghead
10-27-2007, 04:55 PM
I don't have anything to hide at all.
That isn't the issue - would you go to a car dealer and show them your checking account balance? I doubt it.
I won't lie about my salary - but in reality for the average person the only leverage they might have in getting a raise at a new company is not revealing exactly what their current salary is.
Also, my salary is really between me and my current company who pays it.
Bottom line IMO: I am being strong armed for one purpose only - so that they can pay me less than I might otherwise be able to negotiate.

BrendellaJet
10-27-2007, 05:02 PM
I don't have anything to hide at all.
That isn't the issue - would you go to a car dealer and show them your checking account balance? I doubt it.
I won't lie about my salary - but in reality for the average person the only leverage they might have in getting a raise at a new company is not revealing exactly what their current salary is.
Also, my salary is really between me and my current company who pays it.
Bottom line IMO: I am being strong armed for one purpose only - so that they can pay me less than I might otherwise be able to negotiate.
You dont have to take the position...I'd Wait until they discuss money though. Make the case for a raise citing time since last raise, what other companies are paying similar positions and anything else that will help your case(other potential offers, etc). If they are only willing to pay you what you are making and are underhandedly obtaining that information, you dont want to work for them anyway.
If you dont like the money they offer you wont be happy there for very long.

snake321
10-27-2007, 05:09 PM
I was asked to fill out a compensation sheet yesterday. I thought it was for what I wanted. They told me it was for what I'm getting now.

HemiDude
10-27-2007, 05:17 PM
Get them to make you an offer or ballpark pay scale first. I wouldn't show your cards first--that's what they want. Remember, they are recruiting you. You need to know what they intend on paying you before your salary discussions. Are they offering you an x amount or an x amount above your current salary???. Do your due diligence before you give them any info...
Just my 2 coppers.

AZJD
10-27-2007, 05:40 PM
I would bet your present employer will help all they can for you to get a new job,asap.
Oh SNAP!:eek:

KLEPTOW
10-27-2007, 05:41 PM
Standard corporate practice, some have hard and fast rules on MRZ’s and how much of a raise they will give you, over your current salary, industry standards are 10-15% above your current salary. Hard ball is to not give you anything, because of the large job pool they have to pull from.
Use caution here if you truly want to work for them, it’s an employer market right now and they know it, majority of these large corporations are taken advantage of the current job market.

ThongMagnet
10-27-2007, 06:01 PM
Don't do it....its a trick. Tell them it has "personal information" on the paycheck...(401K deductions, healthcare costs, married status, etc....)
:jawdrop: I think I would have them put it in writing, then sue them:idea:

snake321
10-27-2007, 06:07 PM
They already asked what kinda money I wanted. The sheet was about the perks.

ThongMagnet
10-27-2007, 06:09 PM
Standard corporate practice, some have hard and fast rules on MRZ’s and how much of a raise they will give you, over your current salary, industry standards are 10-15% above your current salary. Hard ball is to not give you anything, because of the large job pool they have to pull from.
Use caution here if you truly want to work for them, it’s an employer market right now and they know it, majority of these large corporations are taken advantage of the current job market.
WTF, This is not a standard corporate practice. It could be easily seen by the courts as a way for an employer to check if your married, how many kids you have, your age, Union dues/Union member, etc...

delemorte
10-27-2007, 06:52 PM
I would think its part of a background check. to make sure you are not living beyond your means or in debt up to your eyeballs.. if you have serious debt you might sell company secrets.. or if you are lving beyond yoru means you may be on some foreign services payroll..
just my 2 cents.
PS. if you have been honest about your previous pay grade then there is no reason to hide your pay stub. your application and background check will give them all the info they want.

talkinghead
10-27-2007, 07:59 PM
PS. if you have been honest about your previous pay grade then there is no reason to hide your pay stub. your application and background check will give them all the info they want.
I have never been asked about my current pay at all.
They only need to ask - but reality is they don't trust me to tell the truth.
I understand some states do have laws preventing this, but not Cal.
But in fact I do have a reason(s) to "hide" my pay stub: first and foremost it's my business and not theirs. Secondly, as I already mentioned, it could potentially help me in my salary negotiations.

XtrmWakeborder
10-27-2007, 08:23 PM
You don't even know if you have the job yet do you?.... You should know how much the job you are applying for should pay, if they low ball you bring up what it should be. Just give em the paycheck or walk.

talkinghead
10-27-2007, 08:43 PM
You don't even know if you have the job yet do you?.... You should know how much the job you are applying for should pay, if they low ball you bring up what it should be. Just give em the paycheck or walk.
No, I don't have the job and that is partly my point. I think were putting the cart before the horse. Although, I did go through (2) interviews.
Luckily I am still employed and don't have to do anything desperate.

Faceaz
10-27-2007, 09:31 PM
I don't have anything to hide at all.
That isn't the issue - would you go to a car dealer and show them your checking account balance? I doubt it.
I won't lie about my salary - but in reality for the average person the only leverage they might have in getting a raise at a new company is not revealing exactly what their current salary is.
Also, my salary is really between me and my current company who pays it.
Bottom line IMO: I am being strong armed for one purpose only - so that they can pay me less than I might otherwise be able to negotiate.
You're right on the mark here, it's our policy to request a current pay-stub to verify current salary. But, we only do it to verify salary, not before asking your current salary. I guess our way may be worse because we're using it to tell if you're being truthfull. The brightside is, it's likely they're planning to make you an offer.

Moneypitt
10-27-2007, 09:48 PM
Ask them for minutes from the last 3 years labor board hearings they were involved in. Ask them for a shareholders dividend sheet for the last 3 years. Ask them for an employee turn over print out, for the last 3 years......Ask them for any and all Cal OSHA issues, again, in the last 3 years...All this info is so YOU can decide if you really want to work for them, regardless of any salary offer.......Then, after carefully studing the above info, decide IF they are worthy of your services.........And say "OK, I'll need $XXXxxxx to make the switch" ......An employers market? Maybe, but everyone is looking for better help, to do the same things BETTER, faster, cheaper, than who they have doing them now......Be that better person....And they'll want you...As far as all of their requests, tell them to pound sand........Personal info, is just that, personal. Would they want you devulving that info to a future employer while you're working for them???? I think not...........MP

C-2
10-27-2007, 10:08 PM
Gotta love it, they ask you to provide certain items so they can sidestep the myriad of laws and protections which applicants enjoy. By doing so, they are not conducting an investigation.
And most background investigations are nothing more than a feel-good effort. For example, if an employer uses a background screening company to check for criminal records (and most do), they can only go back 7 years. If you were an serial killer 8 years ago, the company is shiat out of luck. Red rum red rum.
Another fine example is a common name like, Robert Smith. You know how fuggin hard it is to hook up the correct guy, and the expense to do so? It ain't happening for $20 (even $500 for that matter). It's a lot easier to check the box which sez "no records found" and collect the $20.
Sad but true.
--
Good luck with it :)

jbone
10-28-2007, 04:18 AM
I have never been asked about my current pay at all.
They only need to ask - but reality is they don't trust me to tell the truth.
I understand some states do have laws preventing this, but not Cal.
But in fact I do have a reason(s) to "hide" my pay stub: first and foremost it's my business and not theirs. Secondly, as I already mentioned, it could potentially help me in my salary negotiations.
If you have something to hide, don't show it. Good luck on that job offer.
J

KLEPTOW
10-28-2007, 07:05 AM
You're right on the mark here, it's our policy to request a current pay-stub to verify current salary. But, we only do it to verify salary, not before asking your current salary. I guess our way may be worse because we're using it to tell if you're being truthfull. The brightside is, it's likely they're planning to make you an offer.
Bingo.
As I said standard corporate practice, most people don’t have a clue why they didn't get a call back after they embellished on there application about time on any of there previous jobs or how much they were making.

totenhosen
10-28-2007, 07:46 AM
By running a credit report or 3 they can pretty much figure out what you are earning. They're just like everybody else in this country at the moment, information is power and the more they have the more control they have over you. I would give them as much verification as possible as to whether you are qualified and able to do the job. If they confirm in writing that you have the job then I would supply the requested information. If no job then fu(kum, as they don/t need to have anymore info than they already have.
Rio
Credit report gives them no indication or way for anyone to figure out how much salary you make.
I think the paystb thing is BS. That kind of stuff should happen after they offer to hire you, during your probation period, and be verified with your current HR dept.

BrendellaJet
10-28-2007, 07:49 AM
I dont think any company has a right to know whats on your paystub. Pay is negotiable. They have a right to know how much they will pay you and that is it. If the figure is agreeable to you then thats great. If not, Fock em.

talkinghead
10-28-2007, 11:29 AM
I just love that "if you have nothing to hide" crowd...

Cheap Thrills
10-28-2007, 11:38 AM
I just love that "if you have nothing to hide" crowd...
I know :rolleyes:
I'm with you on the privacy issue. I don't think past salary or credit history is any of their business as a prerequisite of salary negotiations. The credit report does give them a bit of security.
The chances of you being a safety/security risk is high if you're in debt and are behind on your creditors. It's a catch 22 situation.
I'd say if you really want the job and they really want you the disclosure of said information should come only after you both are satisfied with the salary negotiations.
Best of luck with the job.
T.

welk2party
10-28-2007, 12:04 PM
I don't agree with showing the pay stub, but if you want the job I guess you have no choice. I also don't agree about having your credit run, unless you are in a business involving other peoples financial information, or national security.
But, that is my opinion.

totenhosen
10-28-2007, 03:19 PM
My ass, By investigating the credit report and analizing their debt, payment record and total amount of debt reported you can pretty well get an idea of what their income is like. There are exceptions to every rule however you do not usually find some one that's making upper 6 figures with a credit line of only 5000 bucks on their M/C. Get my point?
Rio
Yes you are an ass and completely wrong! Let's see, I've been in commercial lending for 10+ years now and I guess I must be missing out on the info and math skills you are privy to.
You can have people who makes tons of money and are financially conservative and won't even have a home loan and revolving debt availablity above $20k because they pay for everything in cash. Than you could have some guy with $200k+ in revolving debt that makes $50k a year.
Thanks for the lesson!

SmokinLowriderSS
10-28-2007, 04:46 PM
I don't have anything to hide at all.
That isn't the issue - would you go to a car dealer and show them your checking account balance? I doubt it.
I won't lie about my salary - but in reality for the average person the only leverage they might have in getting a raise at a new company is not revealing exactly what their current salary is.
Also, my salary is really between me and my current company who pays it.
Bottom line IMO: I am being strong armed for one purpose only - so that they can pay me less than I might otherwise be able to negotiate.
Then bottom line, don't take the job.
If you don't want them to see what they want to see, then you will not be hired.
Aerospace is a big money business, and also a huge business on corporate espionage. Corporate secrets.
Security is a BIG concern. Forget being trusted untill you prove yourself AND have a need to be trusted.
Non-Disclosure agreements, UA's, access restrictions of various types, both local site restrictions and computer access, luchbox searches leaving the site, etc, etc, just for starters.
Arround here a potential APARTMENT will run your credit references before leasing to you, even a $250 studio.

SmokinLowriderSS
10-28-2007, 04:53 PM
The chances of you being a safety/security risk is high if you're in debt and are behind on your creditors.
The DOD is a bit testy about this as well, one of the reasons my monsterously spending and check-bouncing 2nd ex ALMOST cost me a career.
Air Force Security, without any security clearances. :jawdrop: :idea:
Fortunately, I got it all straightened out and DOD is happy again.

totenhosen
10-28-2007, 06:25 PM
Tote
Ya know, I started to just pm you but I'll just let it all hang out for everyone.
I didn't start out by callin you names but if that's the way you want to play it so be it. Just remember ya better not show up at this gunfight with your 2" pecker knife cuz that won't do it.
Rio:D
Fine, I shouldn't have said ass. But it irritates me when people give out false info such as you have done and than think they are 100% right. You do a disservice to others including the original poster when you do so.
So just admit you were wrong and we can move on!;)

Faceaz
10-28-2007, 06:58 PM
Remember, this is all a negotiation. You have every right to decline to provide the info, but they will probably think you're hiding something & either give you a low ball offer or no offer @ all.

Big Warlock
10-29-2007, 05:25 AM
Fine, I shouldn't have said ass. But it irritates me when people give out false info such as you have done and than think they are 100% right. You do a disservice to others including the original poster when you do so.
So just admit you were wrong and we can move on!;)
Strange, on Hot Boat, so many prefer the "not so truthful" to the truth. Happens everyday here!! :D

superdave013
10-29-2007, 05:56 AM
I had to give one when I hired on at Huges Aircraft. It was a paycheck stub from a min wage summer job right out of school. Needless to say they did NOT start me out at that rate.
Hell, I had to let them take photos of my retinas before I could do any laser work. If you don't want to jump through some hoops then it sounds like Aerospace is not for you.

Havasu Hangin'
10-29-2007, 01:03 PM
Remember, this is all a negotiation. You have every right to decline to provide the info, but they will probably think you're hiding something & either give you a low ball offer or no offer @ all.
Yep.
Or bettery yet, white out all the info you don't want them to see.

totenhosen
10-29-2007, 01:05 PM
Fine, so you want an answer.
You are probably correct if that's what you do all day long. If you're only looking at one or all of the three credit reports in a written format I don't remember if it is so stated "asZhole makes $$$$$$$$" per year. I never said I was 100% right. As I said, there are exceptions to the rule BUT if he's only making 60,000 a year with a million dollar morgage then somethins off and would require a deeper look. In other words, whoever is reading the report would have to be able to think for him/her self and read between the lines. I am aware that some of these "account executives" that have popped up in the last few years (that are now lookin for jobs) are not capable of this type of discernment. In this case he stated that he was applying to an aerospace company and as they usually do background checks including criminal,driving and credit, then income most likely will be included. (that's what I'm looking at now and that was included). They could very well be checking just to see how truthful he's being.
I have some bigasz numbers on my credit report but that doesn't reflect my income from my day job. It might indicate that I must have some way of making the payments when due so that should tell whoever is looking something. That has to be true with many of the peeps that are self employed and also have a day job or just intend to keep part of their income hidden.
Don't try and show off for the crowd with your vast knowlege by picking points that don't mean a hill of beans . There are many ways to ascertain a persons income, etc., so your point is moot.
Are you happy now or do you want to keep up the pissing match?
Rio
I like how you try to change the argument.
I know, you are 100% wrong as there is NO WAY at all to be able to tell a person's income from their credit report. END OF STORY! So quit trying to act like you were right but throwing out all these other items and exceptions after the fact. My points were 100% valid unlike yours.
If you wanted to end the pissing match you would just say I was right instead of trying to add your but..but..exception to the rule...
In my type banking if we can't verify your income from the tax returns, K-1's etc to support your debts on your credit report it doesn't mean crap. Don't care if you have a hidden source of income. No stated income loan stuff here.

HM
10-29-2007, 01:13 PM
I like how you try to change the argument.
I know, you are 100% wrong as there is NO WAY at all to be able to tell a person's income from their credit report. END OF STORY! So quit trying to act like you were right but throwing out all these other items and exceptions after the fact. My points were 100% valid unlike yours.
If you wanted to end the pissing match you would just say I was right instead of trying to add your but..but..exception to the rule...
In my type banking if we can't verify your income from the tax returns, K-1's etc to support your debts on your credit report it doesn't mean crap. Don't care if you have a hidden source of income. No stated income loan stuff here.
You realize that you are arguing with an angry trucker that gets boolitz delivered via UPS?

Big Warlock
10-29-2007, 01:13 PM
I think the paystub would prove what you make from the position you listed as your present position. Your tax returns would provide a much clearer position as to what your income is. Your credit report will let you know how your doing with regard to your debt, and can be an issue for national security. With sensitive jobs, they tend to get into your personal business pretty deep.
It really takes lots of information to get to a complete picture. No one piece of information gives you a total picture. Probably with a request for paystub, they just want to confirm your application. Nothing more.

C-2
10-29-2007, 01:48 PM
Rio & Tot
You’re both right, only in different scenarios.
Credit reports are great for wage earners, but are of little use for extremely wealthy people.
Nuff said, save all your ammo for the next mortgage/pitbull debate:)

RiverDave
10-29-2007, 02:00 PM
I just love that "if you have nothing to hide" crowd...
Talkinghead, for most every job situation in the world I'd agree with you.. but when it comes to defense, aerospace, etc.. These things are VERY necesarry.
Let me give you just one of the 1000's of reasons why.. Lets say you currently make 50K a year (doesn't matter) and your living way beyond your means.. Credit cards maxed, mortgaged to the hilt.. Lets say your even in a less "sensitive" area (not design, or mfg, but purchasing) All of a sudden some supplier makes you a little side offer. Use us, and we'll give you kick backs!! Well your far more likely to do that if your stretched then if your stable. etc.. etc..
Like I said earlier, invasion of privacy? Maybe, but your dealing with aerospace shit, and the bottom line is they try to filter out "flakey" people in that industry. If you have things to hide on your paystub(s) then odds are you shouldn't be in that industry anyways. Keep in mind you don't have to work for them if you have a problem with their policies, lots of people hiring out there!
Good luck.
RD

Cole Trickle
10-29-2007, 02:02 PM
I always like to know what range they are looking to pay so I don't waste time.
I was making decent money a couple years back at a lage insurance brokerage. A headhunter contacted me as someone in the industry that I had met at a convention wanted me to run there smaller agency. The job sounded promising and I scheduled the interview. I showed up and they made you do a 100 question test and I had to speak with 2 people prior to the owner. At the end of the day they liked me and I was 1 of 2 people being considered for the job and they wanted me to write out a essay on what I could offer the company and come back for interview #2.
Prior to leaving I asked the owner what he expected out of an employee and what he was looking to pay.
He advised that the person must be willing to work 40-50hrs a week on Salary,pass random drug tests and shave side burns and all facial hair. I told him I have never done drugs and I would shave anything for enough $$$. We laughed and I got the impression that I was a shoe in. Right before I got up he said he was looking to pay 40-45K a year:D :D
I stood up and thanked him for the opprotunity and explained that my current employer allows me to have facial hair and pays me 30K a year more. He seemed surprised by my reaction and I explained that I assumed based on his needs and the conversation with his head hunter that this was nearing a 6 figure job. I advised that I was making that kind of $$ as a lead underwriter when I was 20.
I knew the other guy that was interviewing and he called me on the cell as I was leaving the building. He was scheduled for interview #2 later that day. I advised how much they wanted to pay and he no showed the interview;) :eek:
I think showing a pay stub is BS:)

Big Warlock
10-29-2007, 03:09 PM
I've never asked anyone to show a pay stub as I know what the (my) industry pays. However, on sensitive positions I have applicants sign a consent to a background check. I have found that most people embelish on their resume. And believe me I think I have seen most everything!!
It's not that you can or can't do the job. It's integrity for me. You lie to me, you will cheat, steal, whatever you can, to get ahead. People amaze me with their shiat!! You wouldn't believe resume verses reality! It is very entertaining sometimes. :D

Big Warlock
10-29-2007, 03:12 PM
You bring me 30,000,000 worth of business at 10% profit and I will happily pay you $300,000 per year plus benefits. Simple as that! :eek:

ThongMagnet
10-29-2007, 04:11 PM
You bring me 30,000,000 worth of business at 10% profit and I will happily pay you $300,000 per year plus benefits. Simple as that! :eek:
Somebody wants to bring me that kind of business and I'll go $315,000 plus benefits. :D
Will I have to show my paystub, or will you take my word:D :D :D

centerhill condor
10-29-2007, 04:58 PM
Ask them for minutes from the last 3 years labor board hearings they were involved in. Ask them for a shareholders dividend sheet for the last 3 years. Ask them for an employee turn over print out, for the last 3 years......Ask them for any and all Cal OSHA issues, again, in the last 3 years...All this info is so YOU can decide if you really want to work for them, regardless of any salary offer.......Then, after carefully studing the above info, decide IF they are worthy of your services.........And say "OK, I'll need $XXXxxxx to make the switch" ......An employers market? Maybe, but everyone is looking for better help, to do the same things BETTER, faster, cheaper, than who they have doing them now......Be that better person....And they'll want you...As far as all of their requests, tell them to pound sand........Personal info, is just that, personal. Would they want you devulving that info to a future employer while you're working for them???? I think not...........MP
he's right...it is a two way street. I like the "better help" concept.
CC