Warning for Havasu night boaters

[Magic34]

Warning for night boatersÂ…
We had a very close call on Saturday night. We were watching the ASU game Saturday night just outside of Steamboat on the boat. We watched the sun go completely down, beautiful, and watched some more of the game.
I wasnÂ’t really worried about making it back because I have radar and it picks up everything including buoys of the no wake zones and rock hazard buoys. Between radar and knowing the lake very well, I was not worried about making it back to the Nautical in very dark conditions. There was no moon Saturday night either.
Well we get under way for the Nautical around 7 PM and head North towards the canyon section that leads from Steamboat to Copper Canyon. I wasnÂ’t using my spotlight, didnÂ’t need it with radar. We make it through what would be the canyon section and I was cruising around 37 MPH. Well, the lake starts to open up right in front of Copper Canyon and I get on the throttles a little more, about 45 MPH. I am standing up, not sitting behind the windshield and I am only taking my eyes off of the water every 5-7 seconds to double check my radar. I am looking for any sign of buoys that may have not shown up.
I am now in the middle of the bay and feeling very confident in my navigation with my cheater radar. :D
All of the sudden, a light appears directly in front of me. I take a quick glance at my radar and look up again thinking I am seeing things and there is nothing on the radar screen. Next thing I realize is that this light is really a handheld flashlight and they are directing the light at the sails of the fockin boat.
This a-hole is in a sailboat with ZERO lights. It was a much older sail boat as well. All I could see of it was that it had square sails like a pirate ship. I thought the focken Black Pearl was trying to kill me. He had NO, zero, nada navigation lights or anchor lights and at the last minute when I am barreling down on him for a head on collision, he turns a flashlight on. WTF!!! I made a quick turn and missed him by about 20 yards. He had to have gotten a good wave from my wake that close.
As I passed him, I checked and rechecked my radar screen and there was zero sign of this guy on my radar, yet I picked up the buoys at Copper Canyon. He wasnÂ’t there.
I researched radar today and it will not pick up fiberglass alone. It needs something reflective to bounce back for the reading. At West Marine, they sell radar reflectors for sailboats because this is a common problem I guess.
We did pass another sailboat about 3 minutes later in the bay and my radar fully picked him up. This one had a light on the top of the mast, and those lights that are up that high are very difficult to read in Havasu. It blends in with all the lights from the city, so watch for those.
My point is to be very careful out there. There are people on the water without any lights on driving their boats around. I was taking every precaution with exception to running my spot light. In case it matters, the only thing in my cooler was water, Sprite, and a few Cokes. DidnÂ’t drink 1 time last weekend, rarely do. Next time, I will have the spot light in hand.
Look out for the Black Pearl at night. Hopefully it scared the shiat out of him even more and he gets some damn lights installed or working on his boat.

[Froggystyle]

Fortunately for me... counting on my radar for guidance at night isn't a problem I have to concern myself with... ;)
Thanks for the reminder though. I wake up in a cold sweat on occasion thinking about the proverbial person in a black swimsuit in an innertube floating down the river in Parker...

[Havasu1986]

Probably a Canadien snowbird. :mad: :eek: :D

[Magic34]

Probably a Canadien snowbird. :mad: :eek: :D
It was damn close. Almost a deadbird.

[OCMerrill]

Did you stop and ask the dumbass why no lights?
This is why the stealth bomber and fighter are 100% composite. Nothing to reflect.
In some cases power boats will not show up either. Just depends on angle of attack and the amount of metal.
Glad your ok. Damn.

[Magic34]

Did you stop and ask the dumbass why no lights?
I yelled some choice words on the way by. Trust me, he heard them. We were not far apart and my boat is very quiet.
i really didn't want to confront an idiot to begin with in the middle of the lake. Seems he has a death wish, not me.

[shadow]

45MPH at night with no moon?:eek: :D

[Jyruiz]

Any faster and you would have had to spin it out on the reeds.:D
Glad everybody was ok.

[DeltaSigBoater]

Warning for night boatersÂ…
We had a very close call on Saturday night. We were watching the ASU game Saturday night just outside of Steamboat on the boat. We watched the sun go completely down, beautiful, and watched some more of the game.
I wasnÂ’t really worried about making it back because I have radar and it picks up everything including buoys of the no wake zones and rock hazard buoys. Between radar and knowing the lake very well, I was not worried about making it back to the Nautical in very dark conditions. There was no moon Saturday night either.
Well we get under way for the Nautical around 7 PM and head North towards the canyon section that leads from Steamboat to Copper Canyon. I wasnÂ’t using my spotlight, didnÂ’t need it with radar. We make it through what would be the canyon section and I was cruising around 37 MPH. Well, the lake starts to open up right in front of Copper Canyon and I get on the throttles a little more, about 45 MPH. I am standing up, not sitting behind the windshield and I am only taking my eyes off of the water every 5-7 seconds to double check my radar. I am looking for any sign of buoys that may have not shown up.
I am now in the middle of the bay and feeling very confident in my navigation with my cheater radar. :D
All of the sudden, a light appears directly in front of me. I take a quick glance at my radar and look up again thinking I am seeing things and there is nothing on the radar screen. Next thing I realize is that this light is really a handheld flashlight and they are directing the light at the sails of the fockin boat.
This a-hole is in a sailboat with ZERO lights. It was a much older sail boat as well. All I could see of it was that it had square sails like a pirate ship. I thought the focken Black Pearl was trying to kill me. He had NO, zero, nada navigation lights or anchor lights and at the last minute when I am barreling down on him for a head on collision, he turns a flashlight on. WTF!!! I made a quick turn and missed him by about 20 yards. He had to have gotten a good wave from my wake that close.
As I passed him, I checked and rechecked my radar screen and there was zero sign of this guy on my radar, yet I picked up the buoys at Copper Canyon. He wasnÂ’t there.
I researched radar today and it will not pick up fiberglass alone. It needs something reflective to bounce back for the reading. At West Marine, they sell radar reflectors for sailboats because this is a common problem I guess.
We did pass another sailboat about 3 minutes later in the bay and my radar fully picked him up. This one had a light on the top of the mast, and those lights that are up that high are very difficult to read in Havasu. It blends in with all the lights from the city, so watch for those.
My point is to be very careful out there. There are people on the water without any lights on driving their boats around. I was taking every precaution with exception to running my spot light. In case it matters, the only thing in my cooler was water, Sprite, and a few Cokes. DidnÂ’t drink 1 time last weekend, rarely do. Next time, I will have the spot light in hand.
Look out for the Black Pearl at night. Hopefully it scared the shiat out of him even more and he gets some damn lights installed or working on his boat.
Damn sailboaters think the rules dont apply to them :mad: I've been in similar situations out in the ocean.
Sailboats not showing up on radar is a common problem, especailly for trailerable sailboats. The main problem with those refllectors is they're not that big so its only going to be a little plip on the radar.
Regardless that douche still should've been displaying the proper lights!

[Magic34]

45MPH at night with no moon?:eek: :D
A Skater wont even stay on plane at that speed.

[shadow]

A Skater wont even stay on plane at that speed.
Just giving you shit!;)

[BigDogIvan]

Glad no one got hurt or run over.
When I first started to read this I thought you may have encountered the cat that made a speed pass from just outside the channel south throught Thompson bay and past the buoys.

[Mrs. Bear Down]

I think it was the "ghost" of the Mother Pearl effing with you!!! ;)

[Magic34]

Just giving you shit!;)
I know. Maybe i should have replaced the word Skater with DCB. :D

[Big Warlock]

Yea, you were lucky, as was he! Should have called him him for no navigation lights!! Sailboats are dangerous at night!!

[Big Warlock]

Yea, you were lucky, as was he! Should have called him in for no navigation lights!! Sailboats are dangerous at night!!

[DeltaSigBoater]

I know. Maybe i should have replaced the word Skater with DCB. :D
At least you didnÂ’t spin out into the reeds to avoid a collision :D

[Havasu Carrera]

Any faster and you would have had to spin it out on the reeds.:D
Glad everybody was ok.
45MPH at night with no moon?:eek: :D
Seems the hot boating comunity may be getting a nice repution.:mad:

[Instigators]

Running any speed faster than you can process the information your senses read in poor visablity or conditions is asking for a problem. A person could have ( and has been known to ) go for a swim at night. That's not against the law and doesn't require lights. In either instance, Swimming or Driving at speed at night, Good Judgement is always better than Poor Judgement. Not digging at anyone at all, just stating my 02.

[4trax]

WHAT IN THE HELL were going that fast for anyways?:mad: Yes, he should of had lights on but you should have not been going that fast and also had your lights and spot on! NO WAKE after DARK!!!:idea:

[RiverOtter]

I don't know much about blow boat but don't they have lead in the keel? Is that too soft a metal to show up on radar? :idea:

[SB]

I agree, use the spots. Like when your in a car, don't outdrive your headlights. Radar won't pick up a wooden boat, or a wooden dock.
Remember those baseball players that hit a dock and died?
If you're stranded at sea, like in "Cast Away," make your craft as visible to radar as possible.
So Froggy, tell us more about these enemy ninjas in innertubes that haunt your dreams. Or are those your old buddies after Sen. Pelosi's budget cuts? :D

[Froggystyle]

I agree, use the spots. Like when your in a car, don't outdrive your headlights. Radar won't pick up a wooden boat, or a wooden dock.
Remember those baseball players that hit a dock and died?
If you're stranded at sea, like in "Cast Away," make your craft as visible to radar as possible.
So Froggy, tell us more about these enemy ninjas in innertubes that haunt your dreams. Or are those your old buddies after Sen. Pelosi's budget cuts? :D
I am not 100% sure, but I think it is illegal to drive at night with spotlights on. I know that they really, really frown on driving lights at all, which is why they always call them "docking" lights.
I wonder if Alan can shed some light on this subject... pun intended... :D

[ClownRoyal]

Warning for night boaters…
We had a very close call on Saturday night. We were watching the ASU game Saturday night just outside of Steamboat on the boat. We watched the sun go completely down, beautiful, and watched some more of the game.
...
Let's focus on the real problem here...ASU lost:(

[HalletDave]

I don't know much about blow boat but don't they have lead in the keel? Is that too soft a metal to show up on radar? :idea:
It is not the softness that matters in the situation you are inquiring about. Lead should show on SONAR, below the surface of the water, but RADAR is above the surface. :)

[RiverOtter]

I am not 100% sure, but I think it is illegal to drive at night with spotlights on. I know that they really, really frown on driving lights at all, which is why they always call them "docking" lights.
I wonder if Alan can shed some light on this subject... pun intended... :D
It's legal in TN..... :idea: Hmmmmmmmmmm another good reason to move here :D

[Instigators]

I am not 100% sure, but I think it is illegal to drive at night with spotlights on. I know that they really, really frown on driving lights at all, which is why they always call them "docking" lights.
I wonder if Alan can shed some light on this subject... pun intended... :D
It's been told to me by Law Enforcement ( trying to give me a ticket for using my docking lights off plane outside Thompson Bay no wake zone ) that Spot Lights while underway is against the law, as well as using docking lights while underway. Docking lights are for no wake zone docking only.

[BoatFloating]

Baller!!!!! :D

[RiverOtter]

It's been told to me by Law Enforcement ( trying to give me a ticket for using my docking lights off plane outside Thompson Bay no wake zone ) that Spot Lights while underway is against the law, as well as using docking lights while underway. Docking lights are for no wake zone docking only.
Why do they say this is a good idea??

[LakeRacer]

I am not 100% sure, but I think it is illegal to drive at night with spotlights on. I know that they really, really frown on driving lights at all, which is why they always call them "docking" lights.
I wonder if Alan can shed some light on this subject... pun intended... :D
Boat Cop has stated before that it is a no no to use spotlights at night. It kills your night vision as well as other boaters. The only lights that are supposed to be on while underway is your navigation lights. If you are anchored then only your anchor light should be on.

[Mandelon]

Can't use those "docking" lights out on the water.....

[STV_Keith]

Good job on avoiding the collision. Sucks to have happened at all. I'm sure he got a good dose of wake...I remember crossing your titanic wake a few months ago. :devil:
One thing though, if he had no lights, any possibility that he had an electrical/mechanical problem that you could have rendered help with?

[boat boy]

Understand what you are saying and I think the guys a fool for doing what he did. But having taught basic boating for a couple of years along with proctoring the class for 4 years, what the sail boater did is exactly what is taught when they have no lights. Like it or not he was correct. Unfortunately they will not show up on your radar either, unless they have some kind of reflector on the mast. Plain and simple the guy was an stupid for being out there at night.

[Instigators]

Why do they say this is a good idea??
Who says what's a good idea ?

[boats&bars]

this is a common occurance in the carribean, power cruisers rely on radar and hit sailboats all the time. the bad thing is that the sailboat under sail has the right of way, not trying to pick sides agreed that the sailboat w/ no lights was a dumb ass however, he still had the right of way. my family has a 60' pilothouse in newport and a brand new 30k raetheon radar/sonar unit
our first trip out withe the sales rep we had a close call. the radar didnt pick up a avon w/an ob.
glad that every one was ok.

[Boatcop]

A boat under sail alone (no kicker motor, or motor not running) has to show red/green bow lights and a white stern light when running after sunset and before sunrise.
A small manually propelled vessel (canoe, kayak, rowboat, etc) doesn't need to show lights, except that they have to display a white light (lantern, flashlight, etc) in sufficient time to make their presence known to avoid collision.
It is illegal to use a bright white light (spot lights, docking lights, etc) for navigation, and they should be OFF while underway. A spot light CAN be used to illuminate hazards in the water to make the hazard known to other boaters, or to illuminate the shoreline or dock, in preparing for mooring. In any case, a spot light should never be directed toward the bridge or helm area of another boat.
It's possible that the small sailboat considered themselves a "manually propelled" vessel and had, what he thought was, the proper lighting for his class of vessel. (he was wrong)
In any case, if it had been a rowboat, his shining the flashlight was all he had to do.
It's up to all boaters to maintain a proper lookout and control speed to what is reasonable, under the conditions. The use of electronic navigation devices (radar) does not remove the responsibility to maintain a visual lookout for other vessels or hazards.

[Instigators]

Thanks Alan

[spectras only]

Magic , I think it's time you carry a mast and sail for night excursion to match the speed of these sailboats ;) . I'll dig out a picture for you tonight of a big boat with a duo delta-conic hull designed by Harry Schoell ,that sports a big sail hoisted on a "A" frame :idea: :) :D .
Actually I'd love to have that boat , piss on the oil companies :devil:

[Keith E. Sayre]

Magic 34: Thanks for all of your help this weekend. That's a great looking
boat you've got there too!
I've made it no secret that I hate driving any boat at night because I share
Froggys little dream of running someone down in the water but with me it's
the old man fishing out of a row boat. Every time I get on plane after dark,
I start worrying so I rarely do it.
I thought I'd also mention that extra caution is also needed when approaching
the Windsor Beach area when coming from the California side. You will be
seeing millions of reflections in the water from the city behind the lake and
then a boat with his lights on can sometimes blend right in and they're difficult
to pick out if they're not moving. Just a thought.
Keith Sayre

[Classic Daycruiser]

Good job on avoiding the collision. Sucks to have happened at all. I'm sure he got a good dose of wake...I remember crossing your titanic wake a few months ago. :devil:
One thing though, if he had no lights, any possibility that he had an electrical/mechanical problem that you could have rendered help with?
There are more reasons to take it very slow than to go fast.
1) Boats without lights (electrical problems, or just stupid people)
2) Wood floating (some wood is so big, it will not only rip the out drive off the rear of you boat, it can also crack the hull.
3) Sandbars and rock islands (lake levels can drop 5 feet at night)
4)Wildlife swimming across the river
5) you can't hear anything (was the guy yelling at you)
You should have hung around the sailboat and assisted then back to shore. They may have been on the lake all day, and had a failure, that prevented them from making it back to thew ramp. It is very possible they paddled out into your path to flag you down for a tow back, or worse help in a medical situation.
Magic34, You would have been at fault if you would have run over another boat...especially a sailboat. Sure you could have argued in court that they did not have there lights on, but I can assure you the courts would find you majority responsible for failing to yield the right of way of a sailboat.
If it was a powerboat with engine trouble and not underway, you again would be found majority responsible.
On a full moon night, I'm sure you could have seen the boat (not always), but there are still huge logs floating out there.
I'm glad you brought this up. It is a great way for us to experience what can happen out there, and how dangerous it can be. Just image if you hit something big enough to throw a passenger out of your boat (maybe a black 39' kachina). Your boat taking on water, and you can't find your passengers.
Take it slow at night.

[Jbb]

So Froggy, tell us more about these enemy ninjas in innertubes that haunt your dreams. Or are those your old buddies after Sen. Pelosi's budget cuts? :D
Most of Froggy's nightmares these days, are centered around this guy, we will call him....Smokey...:jawdrop:
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42475&stc=1&d=1194306138

[Magic34]

For those who think I am unsafe, I guaran-frickin-tee you that you and your family are 1000x safer with me on the water over 99.8% of others out there.
Boatcop thanks for your response.
If he was in distress, he was sailing the wrong damn way. He was heading South. Why, if you were having problems would you head South and not towards the place where there are the most resources for help, like the channel or marina. Getting a cab to take you to your trailer where it may be is the most logical choice in any circumstance.
He was not in distress and heading AWAY from the best possiblity for getting more immediate help.
My eyes were glued to the water and my electronic navigation equipment. I was in what would be the direct center of the channel. I saw him once his flashlight turned on. Other than that, he had nothing and was very well under way in the direction of his choice. Not towards what would be needed help if he was in distress.
Also, as I passed the guy he just looked at me. If he needed help, he would have been waiving his arms as I passed. He didn't.
I will agree, once I was comfortable I did increase speed, however it was by no more than 10 MPH over what would have been minimial operation speed for any long period of time.
I learned what I needed to out of this, but to say that I am unsafe is the dumbest damn thing I have read on here. Sorry.

[Magic34]

WHAT IN THE HELL were going that fast for anyways?:mad: Yes, he should of had lights on but you should have not been going that fast and also had your lights and spot on! NO WAKE after DARK!!!:idea:
You are calling me out but if you read what the law says, you are wrong. Sorry.

[Magic34]

I guess I should edit 1 thing. You are safer with me on the water unless you are swimming in a black wetsuit in pitch black conditions and you decide to swim directly down the center of the lake from Thompson's to Havasu Springs. Then, I am not your guy you want to boat with or I guess swim/boat with.

[Magic34]

Your boat taking on water, and you can't find your passengers.
My worse nightmare ever imagined. I thought about that the very second as well and reduced speed to about 33 MPH.
Even if someone was going 20-25 MPH in as dark of conditions as it was, they would have hit him if he did not turn a flashlight on.
By the way, the other sailboat had a white light, but no navigation lights on and was under power. Radar fully picked them up and I clearly saw their light on the mast.
If you are going to boat at night, you better be prepared for it. Make sure your lights work. Why would you even leave a marina to head out for a cruise.
If this was the ocean and I came across that guy, then I would offer assistance, but when it was so easy to get help in Havasu and know exactly where to go for that help, I am calling BS. He was out for a dark cruise.

[mbrown2]

Maybe it was Pirates..:)

[Magic34]

Maybe it was Pirates..:)
That was my thought and I outran them through the reeds.

[Not So Fast]

I dont think its safe at night, on Havasu anyway. We live close enough to hear the boats and I cant tell you how many times I have heard boats making speed runs at 10 pm-1 am, some later:confused: If your in their way then its gonna be ugly period, no thanks, not me or my family!! NSF

[Bella]

Liar!!!!!! I specifically remember our daughters drinking Capri Suns on your boat!!:eek:
By the way, thanks for coming and hanging.
Brett
[QUOTE=Magic34;2876784]Warning for night boatersÂ…
In case it matters, the only thing in my cooler was water, Sprite, and a few Cokes. DidnÂ’t drink 1 time last weekend, rarely do. QUOTE]

[Magic34]

I dont think its safe at night, on Havasu anyway. We live close enough to hear the boats and I cant tell you how many times I have heard boats making speed runs at 10 pm-1 am, some later:confused: If your in their way then its gonna be ugly period, no thanks, not me or my family!! NSF
Agree, but does the time of year matter to you? In November when the lake is 15% of the traffic it is compared to the summer?
There is nothing nicer in Havasu than sitting on your boat in the middle of an empty lake and watching the sun go down.

[Magic34]

Liar!!!!!! I specifically remember our daughters drinking Capri Suns on your boat!!:eek:
By the way, thanks for coming and hanging.
Brett
They were the watered down version. Very low sugar intake. Nothing crazy. :)

[Magic34]

Liar!!!!!! I specifically remember our daughters drinking Capri Suns on your boat!!:eek:
By the way, thanks for coming and hanging.
Brett
Actually, those were in the fridge. :D

[Havasu1986]

Agree, but does the time of year matter to you? In November when the lake is 15% of the traffic it is compared to the summer?
There is nothing nicer in Havasu than sitting on your boat in the middle of an empty lake and watching the sun go down.
You have a point there..but I prefer doing it a little closer to the launch ramp. ;)

[Bella]

Have you every thought about selling boats in Corona?
Brett

[Magic34]

Have you every thought about selling boats in Corona?
Brett
What kind of boats? Like deckboats and cats with wakeboard towers> ;) :D

[Bella]

all of the above!

[Magic34]

all of the above!
If you take my advice and chop that shiat, yup I'll sell them. Maybe even buy one myself with an employee discount. :)

[OCMerrill]

You know calling Magic34 unsafe is really pointless. He was paying attention and saw the flashlight. The Snailbote was clearly in the wrong.
I have run up on peeps floating down the strip at night with no lights on, full moon out, and still get within a couple hundred feet before they are seen. Point is they are seen.
This is why docking lights should be left off. I hate that shit. They don't do shit under power anyway except light up all the bugs flying above the water's surface. Other than that you cant tell they are on. Better to not know bugs are going to hit your teeth. They taste better that way.

[Cole Trickle]

Is this thread for gay Freightliner owners?:eek: :mad: :D ;)

[boats&bars]

what makes it so safe to be with you than the other guys? you were moving at 65 feet per second in the black of night. and missed him by 20 yards. thats frickin scary. do you have a captans licencse to prove that you may be safer than the next guy. you have proved that how much money you have in electronics or your boat dosent make it any safer than the next boat. Im not trying to be a dick but that may be a very arguable statement that you made. I will take my chances on my $10k daycruiser with no radar at 10 mph at night.For those who think I am unsafe, I guaran-frickin-tee you that you and your family are 1000x safer with me on the water over 99.8% of others out there.
Boatcop thanks for your response.
If he was in distress, he was sailing the wrong damn way. He was heading South. Why, if you were having problems would you head South and not towards the place where there are the most resources for help, like the channel or marina. Getting a cab to take you to your trailer where it may be is the most logical choice in any circumstance.
He was not in distress and heading AWAY from the best possiblity for getting more immediate help.
My eyes were glued to the water and my electronic navigation equipment. I was in what would be the direct center of the channel. I saw him once his flashlight turned on. Other than that, he had nothing and was very well under way in the direction of his choice. Not towards what would be needed help if he was in distress.
Also, as I passed the guy he just looked at me. If he needed help, he would have been waiving his arms as I passed. He didn't.
I will agree, once I was comfortable I did increase speed, however it was by no more than 10 MPH over what would have been minimial operation speed for any long period of time.
I learned what I needed to out of this, but to say that I am unsafe is the dumbest damn thing I have read on here. Sorry.

[4trax]

Warning for night boatersÂ…
There was no moon Saturday night either.
I was cruising around 37 MPH. Well, the lake starts to open up right in front of Copper Canyon and I get on the throttles a little more, about 45 MPH.
We are safer riding with you?????:idea: NO THANKS! I will keep driving at night with no wake and all lights on. 45mph in pitch black is safe????:idea:

[boat boy]

I tried to scan and post what I said earlier, but the file comes out to large if someone can tell me away to go around this issue, then I can post the information straight from the USPS book. The bottom line is a sail boat under 23 feet or a rowboat while operating at night must use a white light shinning agaist the sails or in the case of the rowboat point the light into the night sky while under way. You'll find this information I referenced in the USPS handbook 2004 Edition in chapter 12 on pages 129 & 130.
Magic 34, I think what you were doing while operating at night went beyond the call of duty. I don't think to many people at Havasu have radar or know how to use it. I believe anyone that would operate a sailboat at night under these conditions again is a fool, not to mention a rowboat.

[caroftheweek]

We are safer riding with you?????:idea: NO THANKS! I will keep driving at night with no wake and all lights on. 45mph in pitch black is safe????:idea:
I would feel safer in the 37 foot, 16000 pound barge against your 20' jet boat:D

[4trax]

I would feel safer in the 37 foot, 16000 pound barge against your 20' jet boat:D
That's a no brainer:D

[SJP]

It can cost a lot of time and money being "right" in a lot of cases. Not to mention having a clear conscience if involved in a fatal accident even when operating in the "right". Congrats on avoiding the incident all together.

[Classic Daycruiser]

I tried to scan and post what I said earlier, but the file comes out to large if someone can tell me away to go around this issue, then I can post the information straight from the USPS book. The bottom line is a sail boat under 23 feet or a rowboat while operating at night must use a white light shinning agaist the sails or in the case of the rowboat point the light into the night sky while under way. You'll find this information I referenced in the USPS handbook 2004 Edition in chapter 12 on pages 129 & 130.
Magic 34, I think what you were doing while operating at night went beyond the call of duty. I don't think to many people at Havasu have radar or know how to use it. I believe anyone that would operate a sailboat at night under these conditions again is a fool, not to mention a rowboat.
The harzard on the lake at night is a boat that is traveling faster than is safe for the conditions. If you hit something on the lake at night, it quickly turns into a surivial cruise. Who really cares about blame, if you are sinking, and you have people in the water at night.
I believe a couple boats came apart this year on the lake. I believe there were deaths, and injuries. These accidents happened in daylight. How much help is out on the lake at night? not much.
There are people that go out to star gaze, and yeas they turn off there lights to see the stars, and to keep the bugs off them.
There are also boats that are stolen and then left drifting on the lake with no lights.
You, as a skipper, might be game getting wet in the water at night, but those passengers on board might not be capable of staying a float for 5-12 hours waiting for someone to pass by to help.

[caroftheweek]

There are people that go out to star gaze, and yeas they turn off there lights to see the stars, and to keep the bugs off them.
how many bugs do a small red,green, and white light attract? And if it were bugs or death, I choose bugs.
There is absolutely no reason to have lights off when out after dark. PERIOD.
Magic34 may have been going a little faster than he should have but the
dude without lights is clearly in the wrong. How can you expect any boater
to see a boat without lights? Regardless of speed.

[sleekcrafter]

A few summers ago our river had a Venetian night, boats decorated up with lights. This is a ten mile round trip event, upon leaving the event, we are in a pontoon boat, this heavily lighted boat is approaching us from the back. The boat moves to the right to pass us at a safe distance, but dies beside us, and it was lights out. We had our tunes cranking and had just lowered the volume to see if we could assist them. In the distance we hear another boat approaching, with only bow nav lights on. we are 30ft away from the other boat now, and this boat is cruising at about 45 mph straight for us. We had all the lights we could have on ON we are waving off this boat, to no avail. The approaching boat ,hits the dead in the water boat, that is just off our side now. It launches up and over the stalled boat shearing off the windshield and crashing down into the open bow area. The engine of the approaching boat is stuck in the bow of the stranded boat. We see blood all over the remains of the console, and a man overboard floating away, in the seconds afterwards. The guy with the stalled boat shoved his wife, down to the floor, as he was throw out of his boat. The occupants of the approaching boat all remained in the boat, with minor injuries. The wife had suffered cuts to the back of the head, but was conscious, the driver who was thrown out had a tear in his leg about 12 inches long. I'll tell you it is sobering when stuff like this happens, We me and two other guys were in the water, not more than five seconds after the accident to recover the guy floating away, while the girls applied first aid to the injured woman. The driver of the approaching boat was a mess, as in shock from the moment, he couldn't do anything we asked. We called 911 and towed the vessels to a nearby dock. Rescue wanted us to beach the boat on a rocky shore a hundred foot from the dock, we insisted to land at the dock, as it was now three boats tied up. I rarely boat after dark anymore, not because I can't navigate but for the reason there are so many that don't obey the night time rules.

[Redneck]

45MPH at night with no moon?:eek: :D
exactly

[Kilrtoy]

MAGIC34 thanks
FOR POSTING MY STORY...
Amazing how the outcome and sympathy was different because someone else posted my story.
Again thanks Magic for posting my story

[Redneck]

MAGIC34 thanks
FOR POSTING MY STORY...
Amazing how the outcome and sympathy was different because someone else posted my story.
Again thanks Magic for posting my story
your still a homo lol

[boat boy]

The harzard on the lake at night is a boat that is traveling faster than is safe for the conditions. If you hit something on the lake at night, it quickly turns into a surivial cruise. Who really cares about blame, if you are sinking, and you have people in the water at night.
I believe a couple boats came apart this year on the lake. I believe there were deaths, and injuries. These accidents happened in daylight. How much help is out on the lake at night? not much.
There are people that go out to star gaze, and yeas they turn off there lights to see the stars, and to keep the bugs off them.
There are also boats that are stolen and then left drifting on the lake with no lights.
You, as a skipper, might be game getting wet in the water at night, but those passengers on board might not be capable of staying a float for 5-12 hours waiting for someone to pass by to help.
This past summer traveling from Havasu Landing to the Natical Inn while passing site six, passed one guy with no lights, one guy coming from right to left just missed him. He was moving rather fast, his lights blended in with the city ligths reflecting on the water. Then there was the lake lice as there refered to moving at night, again by site six.
This is a very touchy subject regarding the speed issue, personaly while traveling the lake at night will no longer travel faster than 10 MPH.

[Magic34]

We are safer riding with you?????:idea: NO THANKS! I will keep driving at night with no wake and all lights on. 45mph in pitch black is safe????:idea:
Sorry buddy you are.
If you feel otherwise, just stay clear of me on the lake and I will avoid you as well. I wouldn't want to put your family in harms way. Maybe head up river because I only boat from the island south. Much safer waters where I am not.

[caroftheweek]

Sorry buddy you are.
If you feel otherwise, just stay clear of me on the lake and I will avoid you as well. I wouldn't want to put your family in harms way. Maybe head up river because I only boat from the island south. Much safer waters where I am not.
you know...if you had those 525's you were talking about you could have done like 60 in the dark and really pissed people off:sqeyes: :D

[Magic34]

what makes it so safe to be with you than the other guys? you were moving at 65 feet per second in the black of night. and missed him by 20 yards. thats frickin scary. do you have a captans licencse to prove that you may be safer than the next guy. you have proved that how much money you have in electronics or your boat dosent make it any safer than the next boat. Im not trying to be a dick but that may be a very arguable statement that you made. I will take my chances on my $10k daycruiser with no radar at 10 mph at night.
I am not the one to throw money around as acting like I am superior to anyone else.
Yes, it is safer on my boat at night due to the electronics that are made for low visibility navigation. I also have everything required by the coast guard for emergency situations.
I was traveling anywhere between 40-45 MPH. For that situation, I will say that is was a safe speed where I had every precaution possible to make for a safe travel from one end of the lake to the other at night.
I didn't account for an idiot not running lights on his boat. Next time I will, from that very second I did, and I will reduce my speed to account for anything I thought every boater would not do. In the end, my safety will be much improved. Cant say much for another boater who isn't running lights.

[Magic34]

you know...if you had those 525's you were talking about you could have done like 60 in the dark and really pissed people off:sqeyes: :D
Nah, I would have been at idle because I cant afford to extra fuel it will burn. :)

[Magic34]

We are safer riding with you?????:idea: NO THANKS! I will keep driving at night with no wake and all lights on. 45mph in pitch black is safe????:idea:
Do you have every coast guard required item on your boat? So, if you are dead in the water with no power, you could avoid a story like what was posted above?

[Magic34]

A few summers ago our river had a Venetian night, boats decorated up with lights. This is a ten mile round trip event, upon leaving the event, we are in a pontoon boat, this heavily lighted boat is approaching us from the back. The boat moves to the right to pass us at a safe distance, but dies beside us, and it was lights out. We had our tunes cranking and had just lowered the volume to see if we could assist them. In the distance we hear another boat approaching, with only bow nav lights on. we are 30ft away from the other boat now, and this boat is cruising at about 45 mph straight for us. We had all the lights we could have on ON we are waving off this boat, to no avail. The approaching boat ,hits the dead in the water boat, that is just off our side now. It launches up and over the stalled boat shearing off the windshield and crashing down into the open bow area. The engine of the approaching boat is stuck in the bow of the stranded boat. We see blood all over the remains of the console, and a man overboard floating away, in the seconds afterwards. The guy with the stalled boat shoved his wife, down to the floor, as he was throw out of his boat. The occupants of the approaching boat all remained in the boat, with minor injuries. The wife had suffered cuts to the back of the head, but was conscious, the driver who was thrown out had a tear in his leg about 12 inches long. I'll tell you it is sobering when stuff like this happens, We me and two other guys were in the water, not more than five seconds after the accident to recover the guy floating away, while the girls applied first aid to the injured woman. The driver of the approaching boat was a mess, as in shock from the moment, he couldn't do anything we asked. We called 911 and towed the vessels to a nearby dock. Rescue wanted us to beach the boat on a rocky shore a hundred foot from the dock, we insisted to land at the dock, as it was now three boats tied up. I rarely boat after dark anymore, not because I can't navigate but for the reason there are so many that don't obey the night time rules.
That is a horrible story and I could not imagine being there. Was a flare gun on board? I would think a shot of the flare gun into the sky would have prevented that situation.

[Magic34]

I tried to scan and post what I said earlier, but the file comes out to large if someone can tell me away to go around this issue, then I can post the information straight from the USPS book. The bottom line is a sail boat under 23 feet or a rowboat while operating at night must use a white light shinning agaist the sails or in the case of the rowboat point the light into the night sky while under way. You'll find this information I referenced in the USPS handbook 2004 Edition in chapter 12 on pages 129 & 130.
Magic 34, I think what you were doing while operating at night went beyond the call of duty. I don't think to many people at Havasu have radar or know how to use it. I believe anyone that would operate a sailboat at night under these conditions again is a fool, not to mention a rowboat.
Thank you.
My point of this thread was that there are people on that lake who do not take the same precautions that you may so be safe.
If you are in a 18 ft jet boat and travel at 10 MPH and go dead in the water with zero lights, do you have flares to fire warning or distress shots into the air? Many of us on this board probably not.
If you are planning on doing night driving on the lake, make sure you have everything you need because there are some people who dont take the same precautions you may, like operating a boat down a waterway with zero lights or traveling too fast for what you feel is safe.

[SummerBreeze]

magic34
I hope you slow down... 40 to 50 mph is to fast at night
don't be that guy at night

[Magic34]

magic34
I hope you slow down... 40 to 50 mph is to fast at night
don't be that guy at night
It wasn't 50 and thinking back, I doubt it was barely above 40. I cant see my speedo and it feels faster at night. You are right. From now on 35 MPH or less and in all actuality I could have been close to that. I was watching nothing else but radar position and the water in front of me.
I understand everyone's position, however many scenarios have been dead on the water scenarios. This guy was under power, even if it was wind and was cruising with no lights. if you are going to night boat, be ready for it. This guy simply didn't care. Went out sailing with a flashlight and nothing else in terms of lights on his boat.
Kilrtoy should have had his lights on, end of story.:)

[SummerBreeze]

Magic34
good... looks like you may have gotten a second chance at boating at night.
I think boating at night can be very unsafe at high speeds
Thanks for slowing down

[INSman]

Any faster and you would have had to spin it out on the reeds.:D
Glad everybody was ok.
Too damn funny ;) :D

[spectras only]

Magic here's the boat you should have ;) . Sail at night , power during the day :D :D :D .
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/65foot.infinity.jpg

[caroftheweek]

Nah, I would have been at idle because I cant afford to extra fuel it will burn. :)
Come on man...you cannot make a comment like that on here and expect
anyone to take you seriously.:D

[Magic34]

Come on man...you cannot make a comment like that on here and expect
anyone to take you seriously.:D
It's true though. I spent my wad on buying a truck that can legally and safely tow my boat. :D

[Magic34]

Magic here's the boat you should have ;) . Sail at night , power during the day :D :D :D .
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/65foot.infinity.jpg
Does that sail thingy fold down? If not, it is going to be a bitch to tow.

[Magic34]

I am changing my story. It was the ghost ship of Havasu and it only comes out when there is no moon, just like the Pirates of Carribean movies.
He was hoping to force me into the rocks so he could take my soul and keys to my truck.
That is the only way to explain it!!!

[DeltaSigBoater]

Magic here's the boat you should have ;) . Sail at night , power during the day :D :D :D .
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/65foot.infinity.jpg
OMG WTF is that :eek:
Hopefully they only built one :D

[4trax]

Do you have every coast guard required item on your boat? So, if you are dead in the water with no power, you could avoid a story like what was posted above?
You bet I do and then some! Like a 44mag for people that put me or my family in harms way!:idea:

[Instigators]

I didn't account for an idiot not running lights on his boat. Next time I will, from that very second I did, and I will reduce my speed to account for anything I thought every boater would not do. In the end, my safety will be much improved. Cant say much for another boater who isn't running lights.
Sounds like Magic34 is an enlightened and better informed boater to me. Hopefully we have all learned something from this thread as I'm sure that was the original intent of it in the first place. Thanks for posting your experience at the expense of a beating. I'll boat with you anytime Day or Night Bro.:) You can follow me in the Day and I'll follow behind you at night.:D Glad it worked out for everyone. Good job man.

[Instigators]

Do you have every coast guard required item on your boat? So, if you are dead in the water with no power, you could avoid a story like what was posted above?
You bet I do and then some! Like a 44mag for people that put me or my family in harms way!:idea:
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42537&d=1194364691
Or you could just stand-up and bend over and BA everyone to supply a full moon. I'm sure they would see that.:D:eek: :confused: :idea: :D

[40FlatDeck]

You bet I do and then some! Like a 44mag for people that put me or my family in harms way!:idea:
I know Magic34 and he is very,very safe, like boring safe. I think you should relax a little, Havasu is not Shawano Lake.:sqeyes:
MAGIC34 - WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING POSTING THIS ON ***boat. You know people will flame you for this. You could jump in front of a bullet to save your grandma, tell your story here, and people would call you out for not jumping the right way.:D

[Magic34]

I know Magic34 and he is very,very safe, like boring safe. I think you should relax a little, Havasu is not Shawano Lake.:sqeyes:
MAGIC34 - WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING POSTING THIS ON ***boat. You know people will flame you for this. You could jump in front of a bullet to save your grandma, tell your story here, and people would call you out for not jumping the right way.:D
Boring... You focker!!!!! :) :D

[SB]

One further thought, yes it is bad form to blind other boaters with a spot light, even where it might be legal. On a very dark nite, I would still use the spot to look out for objects in the water ahead, I guess I'd risk the ticket.

[4trax]

I know Magic34 and he is very,very safe, like boring safe. I think you should relax a little, Havasu is not Shawano Lake.:sqeyes:
MAGIC34 - WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING POSTING THIS ON ***boat. You know people will flame you for this. You could jump in front of a bullet to save your grandma, tell your story here, and people would call you out for not jumping the right way.:D
10-4!:D

[2Driver]

Does that sail thingy fold down? If not, it is going to be a bitch to tow.
LOL Only you would look at that as a trailer boat. :D

[spectras only]

Does that sail thingy fold down? If not, it is going to be a bitch to tow.
Actually , yes the frame folds down to the bow ,you wouldn't even notice it when folded down :) .
The shape of the a frame conforms with the gunwale . And no , Magic couldn't tow this boat with his truck , it's 65' ;) . Schoell designed the boat , duo deltaconic hull to have semi planing efficiency with the sail .

[Magic34]

LOL Only you would look at that as a trailer boat. :D
I refuse to pay those slip fees. :D

[Froggystyle]

Just a quick backup for Magic34 here... I don't see anything at all wrong with the precautions he took, the alertness level and sobriety he exhibited during the cruise or the speed he was running. 35-45 is pretty slow all things considered.
You can't account for everyone. If you hit the swimmer in the innertube at 15 they still die. If you want to boat, float, swim, kayak or sail on the Colorado River at night with no moon and no lights... you are an idiot and are likely going to be hit. He was lucky that Mike is conscientious enough to have taken the precautions he did and was able to avoid him, but in all honesty, according to Darwin's theory that guy should have been removed from the gene pool.
I am always trying to be aware of the other guy, always trying to boat for that event and as a result I too am very well prepared for emergencies... better than most.
I boat at night, and sometimes I boat at 45 mph. If you are that guy floating around at midnight with no lights on, you are at risk.
My lights are on... my spotlight is in my lap, and my GPS is plotting my known good course.

[Jbb]

Just a quick backup for Magic34 here... I don't see anything at all wrong with the precautions he took, the alertness level and sobriety he exhibited during the cruise or the speed he was running. 35-45 is pretty slow all things considered.
You can't account for everyone. If you hit the swimmer in the innertube at 15 they still die. If you want to boat, float, swim, kayak or sail on the Colorado River at night with no moon and no lights... you are an idiot and are likely going to be hit. He was lucky that Mike is conscientious enough to have taken the precautions he did and was able to avoid him, but in all honesty, according to Darwin's theory that guy should have been removed from the gene pool.
I am always trying to be aware of the other guy, always trying to boat for that event and as a result I too am very well prepared for emergencies... better than most.
I boat at night, and sometimes I boat at 45 mph. If you are that guy floating around at midnight with no lights on, you are at risk.
My lights are on... my spotlight is in my lap, and my GPS is plotting my known good course.
And you are munching on chicken chips....

[Froggystyle]

And you are munching on chicken chips....
And Pepperoni... :D

[Jbb]

And Pepperoni... :D
Word...

[RiverDave]

Just a quick backup for Magic34 here... I don't see anything at all wrong with the precautions he took, the alertness level and sobriety he exhibited during the cruise or the speed he was running. 35-45 is pretty slow all things considered.
You can't account for everyone. If you hit the swimmer in the innertube at 15 they still die. If you want to boat, float, swim, kayak or sail on the Colorado River at night with no moon and no lights... you are an idiot and are likely going to be hit. He was lucky that Mike is conscientious enough to have taken the precautions he did and was able to avoid him, but in all honesty, according to Darwin's theory that guy should have been removed from the gene pool.
I am always trying to be aware of the other guy, always trying to boat for that event and as a result I too am very well prepared for emergencies... better than most.
I boat at night, and sometimes I boat at 45 mph. If you are that guy floating around at midnight with no lights on, you are at risk.
My lights are on... my spotlight is in my lap, and my GPS is plotting my known good course.
Gotta be honest here.. 45 mph seems way to fast to me for cruising at night, especially on a big dark lake like Havi.. (double time for the no moon bit) Atleast on Parker you have all the shore lights that help navigate the way, and you can see "breaks" in the light beams across the water (if you know what to look for) to see if there's something floating in front of you.. Even with a full moon and all the percieved advantages of shore lights though I wouldn't run that fast. I usually run the slowest maintainable planing speed of the boat (16 -22'ish mph in most smaller V-Bottoms). If it was some big skater cat that didn't plane until 50mph, then I guess I wouldn't be running that boat at night, atleast not on plane. (personal opinions)
I'm not talking shit on magic34 though. I'm just saying that at the end of the day "What's the hurry?" ;) :D
RD

[Magic34]

Gotta be honest here.. 45 mph seems way to fast to me for cruising at night, especially on a big dark lake like Havi.. (double time for the no moon bit) Atleast on Parker you have all the shore lights that help navigate the way, and you can see "breaks" in the light beams across the water (if you know what to look for) to see if there's something floating in front of you.. Even with a full moon and all the percieved advantages of shore lights though I wouldn't run that fast. I usually run the slowest maintainable planing speed of the boat (16 -22'ish mph in most smaller V-Bottoms). If it was some big skater cat that didn't plane until 50mph, then I guess I wouldn't be running that boat at night, atleast not on plane. (personal opinions)
I'm not talking shit on magic34 though. I'm just saying that at the end of the day "What's the hurry?" ;) :D
RD
I have determined that it was less than 45, but I first said 45, so I will just stick with that.
Once I picked up a line from a light at the marina, I stuck to that as well all the way into Thompsons.
Even if I was going 20 MPH and that guy did not shine a light up at the last minute, he would have been hit by if not me, someone else.
I feel I have a better eye view of everything because my eyes are about 10' above the water when standing and driving.