Son Of A Bitch>>>>>>>>>>>.please!!!

[clownpuncher]

I can't take it anymore. Please, if you must have an opinion about the "plane on a treadmill" theory, then post up and vote.
I can't believe some of ya just don't get it:D
So, given the scenario of a plane positioned on a hypothetically large AND MOVING treadmill, can the plane take off?
Be advised, this is a public poll and your ignorance will be visible for all to see.;)

[clownpuncher]

How fast is the treadmill moving? I don't believe that's been brought up.
I don't think it matters, I'm assuming the wheel bearings are good and the wheels will rotate freely

[Excessive Force]

depends if you live in the southern or northern hemisphere:D

[pw_Tony]

Unless the Prop force over takes the force of the treadmill the plane will not take off. A plane has to gain speed, and if the treadmill is equalling the force of the prop it will not move

[clownpuncher]

is the threadmill going forward of backward?:D i realy hope it crashes and boom bang smoke crash and batman comes and saves the day:D
Since Batman isn't real, Superman will have to save the day

[clownpuncher]

Unless the Prop force over takes the force of the treadmill the plane will not take off. A plane has to gain speed, and if the treadmill is equalling the force of the prop it will not move
I'm saving a halfway intelligent response for later.
I'm still amazed:D

[LaveyJet]

YES!,
Basic physics, the wheels aren't providing the thrust for the forward motion, the engine/propellel/jet or what ever is. The thrust is a very big plus, and the friction from the treadmill-wheels is not enough to overcome it.

[pw_Tony]

YES!,
Basic physics, the wheels aren't providing the thrust for the forward motion, the engine/propellel/jet or what ever is. The thrust is a very big plus, and the friction from the treadmill-wheels is not enough to overcome it.
But the plane has to move forward to get lift.
So if the treadmill stays at the same speed as the plane then the plane cannot move forward.
The plane thrust is at 5mph, then the treadmill equals the 5mph on it, so then the plane has to gain more speed for take off at 20mph, yet the treadmill goes 20mph, etc...
So the plane will not take off if it can't overcome the mtching speed of the treadmill

[clownpuncher]

This is freakin funny. Some of the justification on the other thread has me rolling.
I know for a few of the "No, ain't gonna take off" voters that all of a sudden, they're gonna get it, like a light switch just got turned on.:D

[bchbum]

It all depends if the plane really wants to fly , has anyone asked it how it feels ? j/k

[clownpuncher]

But the plane has to move forward to get lift.
So if the treadmill stays at the same speed as the plane then the plane cannot move forward.
The plane thrust is at 5mph, then the treadmill equals the 5mph on it, so then the plane has to gain more speed for take off at 20mph, yet the treadmill goes 20mph, etc...
So the plane will not take off if it can't overcome the mtching speed of the treadmill
All that means is that the wheels will be doubling in speed. Like I said earlier, the wheel bearings will take a beating.
Does anyone get it yet?:idea:

[mickeyfinn]

Come on people! You just aren't thinking. The question stated that the conveyor would match the planes forward speed in reverse. If the plane is moving at 100mph the conveyor will be running backwards at 100mph. This doesn't mean the plane slows down at all. The wheels are just turning twice as fast. This story has been beat to death.

[Excessive Force]

what if the propeller has a serious pitch to it? that would create some lift...works with rc planes!!...thats a possibility taint it?

[OCMerrill]

It will take off regardless. All the wheels do is hold the thing up until enough air speed is achieved to take off. Makes no difference how fast the freaking wheels are spinning.
I can't believe were doing this again.:rolleyes:

[clownpuncher]

LOL, I"m truly laughing.
I think everyone is smart, some are just smarter than others:D

[Excessive Force]

i see alot of french fries missing here

[Tom Brown]

Does this so called "plane" have a nose wheel or is it a tail dragger?

[pw_Tony]

I think I'm going to have to do some small scale testing... but now I wish I would have voted it would taken off because now I get it

[sanger rat]

I just had to even things up. :D

[squirt'nmyload]

it will fly :D

[clownpuncher]

Does this so called "plane" have a nose wheel or is it a tail dragger?
Never did think about that.
Let's say it's a Pilatus PC-12 with a P & W Jet prop. White with blue accents, custom interior and state of the art electronics;)
So, in short, the plane will have a nose wheel, if that's what you wanna call it:D

[clownpuncher]

I think I'm going to have to do some small scale testing... but now I wish I would have voted it would taken off because now I get it
LOL, no worries. I think most of us will forgive you of your mistakes. Glad you finally see the light:D

[Instigators]

It has the same chance as the camera that is capturing the footage does.:D

[BDMar]

It will take off IF the treadmill (not just the tread) is moving fast enough to create enough wind speed/lift.... high pressure bottom, low pressure top of the wing. The key here is wind speed over and under the wing. No wind speed, no lift. Sooooo the treadmill itself has to be moving. Not just the tread.

[snake321]

Why is the plane on the treadmill?
Doctor's orders??

[Instigators]

We have a winner. Lift is generated at the wings with no relavence to the wheels, in this case the ground ( treadmill ) just happens to be moving the wheels faster.:D

[OverKill]

NO WAY
Folks you have to have wind passing under and over the wings to create lift. Remember a treadmill makes the runner run not the other way around. You know the buttons you push to speed it up or slow it down.
So if the treadmill is truning its belt at 100mph and the plane is only creating enough thrust to go 100mph, the plane will go nowhere. Now of the treadmill is turning at 100mph and the plane is thrusting at 120mph then yes the plane will pull forward at 20mph. Bottom line the plane has to be moving forward creating wind/force to lift the plane.
You don't even have to do it with a plane. Just put yourself on the treadmill and start it up and see if you get anywhere. I think we all know the answer to that one.
OverKill

[Instigators]

NO WAY
Folks you have to have wind passing under and over the wings to create lift. Remember a treadmill makes the runner run not the other way around. You know the buttons you push to speed it up or slow it down.
So if the treadmill is truning its belt at 100mph and the plane is only creating enough thrust to go 100mph, the plane will go nowhere. Now of the treadmill is turning at 100mph and the plane is thrusting at 120mph then yes the plane will pull forward at 20mph. Bottom line the plane has to be moving forward creating wind/force to lift the plane.
You don't even have to do it with a plane. Just put yourself on the treadmill and start it up and see if you get anywhere. I think we all know the answer to that one.OverKill
The engines ( prop driven or Jet ) move air to propel the plane forward. Therfore the only relation the tires have in the equation is that they will be moving faster. Thrust will move the Plane with the wheels moving at a speed equal to normal take off plus the speed of the treadmill.
You sure you have a license to fly that plane? Probably a commercial one huh?:D

[mickeyfinn]

NO WAY
Folks you have to have wind passing under and over the wings to create lift. Remember a treadmill makes the runner run not the other way around. You know the buttons you push to speed it up or slow it down.
So if the treadmill is truning its belt at 100mph and the plane is only creating enough thrust to go 100mph, the plane will go nowhere. Now of the treadmill is turning at 100mph and the plane is thrusting at 120mph then yes the plane will pull forward at 20mph. Bottom line the plane has to be moving forward creating wind/force to lift the plane.
You don't even have to do it with a plane. Just put yourself on the treadmill and start it up and see if you get anywhere. I think we all know the answer to that one.
OverKill
You are j/k right? Wheels on a plane are just bearings not driven by anything. They freespin. If the prop/jet/magicforkingflyinggas or whatever propulsion you want to use is providing enough thrust on the wings/plane to go 100mph the planes speed is going to be 100mph minus whatever inconsequential load the bearing cause due to turning twice as fast. From a distance the takeoff would look perfectly normal, but the wheels would be spinning twice as fast as usual

[squirt'nmyload]

NO WAY
Folks you have to have wind passing under and over the wings to create lift. Remember a treadmill makes the runner run not the other way around. You know the buttons you push to speed it up or slow it down.
So if the treadmill is truning its belt at 100mph and the plane is only creating enough thrust to go 100mph, the plane will go nowhere. Now of the treadmill is turning at 100mph and the plane is thrusting at 120mph then yes the plane will pull forward at 20mph. Bottom line the plane has to be moving forward creating wind/force to lift the plane.
You don't even have to do it with a plane. Just put yourself on the treadmill and start it up and see if you get anywhere. I think we all know the answer to that one.
OverKill
james, the wheels do not provide the foward motion on a plane...you can't compare this to a person walking.....come on man, think about it.

[pw_Tony]

But I would think the weight of the plane on the wheels would make the plane not want to roll :idea:

[LaveyJet]

ok, you are standing on a treadmill wearing rollerblades holding on to a rope tied to the wall. If the treadmill is at full speed, it is moving way faster than you are. Will you be able to pull youself forward? I think so.... Same principle

[uvindex]

Remember a treadmill makes the runner run not the other way around. You know the buttons you push to speed it up or slow it down.
You don't even have to do it with a plane. Just put yourself on the treadmill and start it up and see if you get anywhere. I think we all know the answer to that one.
OverKillThe runner on a treadmill is not comparable to a plane on a treadmill (a runner generates force against the treadmill while a plane generates force against the air). For an accurate treadmill analogy, imagine you're on a treadmill wearing rollerskates and you are pulling on a rope attached to a wall in front of you. If you pull on the rope hard enough you'll move forward--same goes for the plane. :)

[LaveyJet]

The runner on a treadmill is not comparable to a plane on a treadmill (a runner generates force against the treadmill while a plane generates force against the air). For an accurate treadmill analogy, imagine you're on a treadmill wearing rollerskates and you are pulling on a rope attached to a wall in front of you. If you pull on the rope hard enough you'll move forward--same goes for the plane. :)
I like the way you think! ;)

[OverKill]

james, the wheels do not provide the foward motion on a plane...you can't compare this to a person walking.....come on man, think about it.
I understand that Brian. I know there is no direct drive to the wheels. Do this for me. Go run around the block and feel the wind rushing in your face, then do the same thing on a treadmil. You won't feel the same rush of wind on a treadmil. So no wind no flight. I don't care what you have moving the plane, if the ground is moving in the oposite direction it isn't going anywhere.
OverKill

[Trailer Park Casanova]

If it's on the treadmill, how will the wings get a differential pressure across them for lift?
The wing has to move to lift.
Some fighterplanes have first stage turbine pressure routed across the wing to fool the wing, but it's differential pressure none-the-less.
If a treadmill worked, then they'd have them on aircraft carriers instead of catapults.

[uvindex]

I like the way you think! ;)Same to you! I was typing my masterpiece while you were already posting yours. :)

[mickeyfinn]

I understand that Brian. I know there is no direct drive to the wheels. Do this for me. Go run around the block and feel the wind rushing in your face, then do the same thing on a treadmil. You won't feel the same rush of wind on a treadmil. So no wind no flight. I don't care what you have moving the plane, if the ground is moving in the oposite direction it isn't going anywhere.
OverKill
The plane moves normally!! The ground is not moving, just the treadmill

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Does this so called "plane" have a nose wheel or is it a tail dragger?
Oh for Christ sakes.:D

[clownpuncher]

Holy crap. As I write, we're 50/50 on the votes.
I'm really surprised at a couple of the "no" votes too. Some very intelligent folks voting no.
Soon, the light will flicker...................then you will see:D

[pw_Tony]

ok, you are standing on a treadmill wearing rollerblades holding on to a rope tied to the wall. If the treadmill is at full speed, it is moving way faster than you are. Will you be able to pull youself forward? I think so.... Same principle
Yea but the plane doesn't have a rope, it has to grab air.... while still carrying the weight on the wheels

[uvindex]

If a treadmill worked, then they'd have them on aircraft carriers instead of catapults.Nobody said that the treadmill improves the plane's ability to take off, just that the plane will take off even on a treadmill, so you wouldn't expect to ever see a plane on a treadmill except in hypothetical makes-your-brain-hurt deals like this one. :)

[OverKill]

The runner on a treadmill is not comparable to a plane on a treadmill (a runner generates force against the treadmill while a plane generates force against the air). For an accurate treadmill analogy, imagine you're on a treadmill wearing rollerskates and you are pulling on a rope attached to a wall in front of you. If you pull on the rope hard enough you'll move forward--same goes for the plane. :)
Yes because you have solid attached energy. In other words you have a force that will move you/the plane generated off the plane/you. Take that rope rap it around yourself and pull on it and see if you will get anywhere. Pretend the jet engines are the same as the rope rapped around yourself. Your pulling the rope and the engines are pulling the plane. Your not going anywhere.
OverKill
P.S. Just leave the flying to me guys :)

[mickeyfinn]

If it's on the treadmill, how will the wings get a differential pressure across them for lift?
The wing has to move to lift.
Some fighterplanes have first stage turbine pressure routed across the wing to fool the wing, but it's differential pressure none-the-less.
If a treadmill worked, then they'd have them on aircraft carriers instead of catapults.
The treadmill is a red herring. It doesn't matter. it just causes the wheels to spin faster. It has no effect on ground speed/air speed/lift/differential pressure or the price of tea in china.

[squirt'nmyload]

I understand that Brian. I know there is no direct drive to the wheels. Do this for me. Go run around the block and feel the wind rushing in your face, then do the same thing on a treadmil. You won't feel the same rush of wind on a treadmil. So no wind no flight. I don't care what you have moving the plane, if the ground is moving in the oposite direction it isn't going anywhere.
OverKill
agggggghhhhh....i give up :D :D

[LaveyJet]

Yea but the plane doesn't have a rope, it has to grab air.... while still carrying the weight on the wheels
no, it has a propeller that does the same thing, INDEPENDENT of what's happening with the wheels.

[OverKill]

If it's on the treadmill, how will the wings get a differential pressure across them for lift?
The wing has to move to lift.
Some fighterplanes have first stage turbine pressure routed across the wing to fool the wing, but it's differential pressure none-the-less.
If a treadmill worked, then they'd have them on aircraft carriers instead of catapults.
DING DING DING We have a winner.

[uvindex]

Yes because you have solid attached energy. In other words you have a force that will move you/the plane generated off the plane/you. Take that rope rap it around yourself and pull on it and see if you will get anywhere. Pretend the jet engines are the same as the rope rapped around yourself. Your pulling the rope and the engines are pulling the plane. Your not going anywhere.
OverKill
P.S. Just leave the flying to me guys :)You fly??? :) Again, your analogy is not valid. Of course trying to pull myself with a rope tied to myself isn't going to work, that's kind of ridiculous isn't it? A fair analogy would be me standing on the treadmill, with rollerskates, holding a chainsaw engine with a propeller on it (like you'd see on an ultralight aircraft). In this scenario, it's easy to see that I would move forward on the treadmill. :)

[Phat Matt]

How much of a tail wind is there? :D

[AZJD]

Please ban me! I am losing my mind.

[OCMerrill]

Let me ask this....
Is the treadmill runway length? Because if not the plane will run off the end of the treadmill and crash.
I don't want that on my conscience.

[McIntyrelocal]

i still dont think it will fly the plane still needs wind speed if a plane was flying in the air at 100 mph and got a tail wind of 100 mph it would have to make up the difference to overcome the stall speed so if the plane has no forward momentum because the conveir belt is matching the total speed of the plain.
I MIGHT BE AN IDIOT BUT IM NOT SURE WE WILL FIND OUT IN DECEMBER WHEN THEY AIR IT.:D :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

My no vote was wrong :D

[AZKC]

Running this through a simulator, shows just before becoming airborne, it spins out into the reeds:eek:

[squirt'nmyload]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk

[Faceaz]

I really hope 50% of the people on here are joking. You have to remember any object on a treadmill is stationary & not moving in relation to it's suroundings. It doesn't matter if the tread is going 100mph, the object is still is going 0mph in relation to the ground next to the tread. Being that it's going 0mph, there's no wind & no lift.

[McIntyrelocal]

the plain did not lift and the treadmill speed was not matched i think that the rc plain had more power than 10 mph. what the treadmill speed was.

[Rexone]

My no vote was wrong :D
At least you're in the majority. :messedup: :(

[Excessive Force]

wasnt the question will it fly? that was 5 minutes,4 seconds of my life ill never get back. dam kids in the way too

[OCMerrill]

Is the planes engine running and making power?
If its a glider then no. Power is needed to propel the plane forward.
For some reason I assumed plane take off on a treadmill under its own power.
So I change my vote to NO unless the plane is making thrust (under power)

[EAZYKILLER2006]

not sure if this has been discussed...
cus i aint going to read all the posts...
butt...
HOW BIG ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
CUS LAST I HEARD SIZE DOES MATTER...:devil:
you know what i mean, to get it up?

[Tom Brown]

This airplane deal is one of the best topics ever discussed on ***boat. Even EAZYKILLER is getting into the mix.
Hi Laurie. :)

[Garrddogg]

It will take off easy unless the tail is tied by a rope to a cloud..

[OCMerrill]

Ground speed and airspeed are not related as far as the planes ability to fly. The only thing that applies is air speed over the wing. Say for an example, a certain airplane rotates( flies) at 50 mph and there is 0 head or tail wind then that plane will have to attain 50 mph of both air and ground speed to fly.
If said airplane is taking off into a 50 mph headwind then it will need 0 ground speed to fly but the airspeed indicator will read 50mph.
If said plane is taking off with a 50 mph tail wind then it will need 100 mph ground speed to fly but the airspeed indicator will still read only 50 mph.
On a real windy day, go down to your local airport and find the lightest plane you can and you just might see it flying (wheels off the ground) while it is still chained to the ground.
De plane, she weel fly.
Next,
Rio:D
__________________
I'm still a little taken back by the fact that RioDog of all people managed to diffuse a situation... I'm not quite sure how to respond.
The best answer yet.

[EAZYKILLER2006]

It will take off easy unless the tail is tied by a rope to a cloud..
so your saying its up?http://www.***boat.com/ubb/graemlins/idea_2.gif

[EAZYKILLER2006]

This airplane deal is one of the best topics ever discussed on ***boat. Even EAZYKILLER is getting into the mix.
Hi Laurie. :)
HI TOMMY!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/phlint/My%20Pics/Myspace%20posting/anim199.gifhttp://pic.piczo.com/img/i78549977_26734.gif

[jesco]

Ground speed and airspeed are not related as far as the planes ability to fly. The only thing that applies is air speed over the wing. Say for an example, a certain airplane rotates( flies) at 50 mph and there is 0 head or tail wind then that plane will have to attain 50 mph of both air and ground speed to fly.
If said airplane is taking off into a 50 mph headwind then it will need 0 ground speed to fly but the airspeed indicator will read 50mph.
If said plane is taking off with a 50 mph tail wind then it will need 100 mph ground speed to fly but the airspeed indicator will still read only 50 mph.
On a real windy day, go down to your local airport and find the lightest plane you can and you just might see it flying (wheels off the ground) while it is still chained to the ground.
De plane, she weel fly.
Next,
Rio:D
__________________
I'm still a little taken back by the fact that RioDog of all people managed to diffuse a situation... I'm not quite sure how to respond.
So if you put that same air plane on a tread mill, spinning at 50 mph with the engine off, that plane will take off?????????? I dont know....:idea: :idea:

[OverKill]

You fly??? :) Again, your analogy is not valid. Of course trying to pull myself with a rope tied to myself isn't going to work, that's kind of ridiculous isn't it? A fair analogy would be me standing on the treadmill, with rollerskates, holding a chainsaw engine with a propeller on it (like you'd see on an ultralight aircraft). In this scenario, it's easy to see that I would move forward on the treadmill. :)
DO I fly?? I fly enough to know I need wind speed to get lift of my plane. So tell me then, how could my plane get air under the wings if the plane isn't going anywhere. Think about it, if I'm moving forward in a plane and all of the sudden the ground starts to go the oposite direction how am I going to get the speed I need to take off?? Ball is in your court.
OverKill

[MADDOG355]

This is a case of people that have been educated beyond their intelligence.
Clear your mind and don't over think this.
The motors are producing enough thrust to propel the plane to 200mph on a normal runway.
The treadmill is running at 200mph the other direction.
This means mean the tires on the landing gear are turning 400mph becouse the plane will still have a actual speed of 200mph ( or windspeed if you prefer).
Consider it in reverse.
Same plane in a wind tunnel, The motors are off and the planes tires are immobile. Will the plane still achive lift if the wind tunnel produced 200mph winds?

[Miss Perfect]

There are too many variables to answer this question. If the plane is simply matching the speed on the treadmill then no, it will not take off. It might as well be standing still. If the plane is moving faster then the treadmill and propelling forward, then yes it will take off if it reaches the proper amount of lift.
My answer is no based on the fact that I believe they meant the airplane to only match the speed of the treadmill, not move forward.

[AZJD]

If Nick Hogan was drivin on a treadmill, would he have crashed?

[OverKill]

Why don't all of you try running your boats full throttle out of water, and see how fast you move. Nowhere I believe, because you have robbed the very element that moves the craft. Water in the case of boats, air in the case of planes.
OverKill

[OverKill]

There are too many variables to answer this question. If the plane is simply matching the speed on the treadmill then no, it will not take off. It might as well be standing still. If the plane is moving faster then the treadmill and propelling forward, then yes it will take off if it reaches the proper amount of lift.
My answer is no based on the fact that I believe they meant the airplane to only match the speed of the treadmill, not move forward.
Very good. See you know how it works.

[centerhill condor]

all along, I've thought this was some kind of weird inside joke like "taste great/less filling", "meat puppet", because there are sooo many...all along I was the one that didn't get it.
California is such a special place...
Of course Scotty Peterson thought he'd get away with murder..
I get it now....it all makes perfect sense...Brown as governor, Pelosi, pink hair and porches...building houses on the cliffs over the ocean, Wow...all the pieces fit.
CC

[Miss Perfect]

Why don't all of you try running your boats full throttle out of water, and see how fast you move. Nowhere I believe, because you have robbed the very element that moves the craft. Water in the case of boats, air in the case of planes.
OverKill
Exactly! I am glad someone here has some sense. :D

[MADDOG355]

Why don't all of you try running your boats full throttle out of water, and see how fast you move. Nowhere I believe, because you have robbed the very element that moves the craft. Water in the case of boats, air in the case of planes.
OverKill
You are not removing the wind, you are just making the wheels turn at twice the speed, the plane will still be moving at normal speed in relation to the wind.

[73kona455]

Why don't all of you try running your boats full throttle out of water, and see how fast you move. Nowhere I believe, because you have robbed the very element that moves the craft. Water in the case of boats, air in the case of planes.
OverKill
How are you robbing the plane of air?.. the prop is still pulling air threw it and pushing it out the back,, producing thrust.. doesnt matter how fast the wheels are moving.. a boat out of the water has no water to got threw the prop and produce thrust....:eek:

[uvindex]

So tell me then, how could my plane get air under the wings if the plane isn't going anywhere. OverKillBut the plane IS going somewhere, that's the whole point. Prop thrust pushes air backward (thus causing plane to move forward) until sufficient airspeed and lift are achieved for it to take off. :)

[Rexone]

DO I fly?? I fly enough to know I need wind speed to get lift of my plane. So tell me then, how could my plane get air under the wings if the plane isn't going anywhere. Think about it, if I'm moving forward in a plane and all of the sudden the ground starts to go the oposite direction how am I going to get the speed I need to take off?? Ball is in your court.
OverKill
Your propeller is pulling air, which is still, other than prevailing wind. The air is not moving in reverse with the treadmill track. Your propeller (or jet) has nothing to do with treadmill under the tires. The propeller will move the plane forward relative to the air and the ground thus gaining sufficient airspeed (and lift) to take off normally.

[uvindex]

Why don't all of you try running your boats full throttle out of water, and see how fast you move. Nowhere I believe, because you have robbed the very element that moves the craft. Water in the case of boats, air in the case of planes.
OverKillThis is not a valid analogy (the plane isn't in a vacuum, which would be comparable to your example of props without water). :)

[pw_Tony]

Here's something that just crossed my mind.
Wouldn't the bearings on the wheels and friction on the tires be exponential?
Due to the plane needs to go 100mph to lift off, but yet the treadmill will go 100mph..... then they plane will be spinning 500mph and the treadmilll 500mph.... 1000mph? That's alot of friction.
Any thoughts?

[clownpuncher]

LOL still 26-26.
Did anyone NOT see the video AZJD posted?
All you fellas, and one lady, gotta watch the video. Kinda lays it out, real easy like.;)

[hoolign]

Every single person that said it won't fly... take your life ..please. My god people..do you not understand simple physics?? There is no bloody driveshaft powering the planes wheels..it does not rely on the wheels for applying forward motion...the damn wheels are there to let the plane "roll" as it appiles "thrust" ..which is the mechanism of propulsion..not to propel it!! Prop or jet ..it does not matter.. ..
THE WHEELS ARE ONLY ALONG FOR THE RIDE!!!:rolleyes:

[Instigators]

Why don't all of you try running your boats full throttle out of water, and see how fast you move. Nowhere I believe, because you have robbed the very element that moves the craft. Water in the case of boats, air in the case of planes.
OverKill
Here, try this analogy. An air boat ( propelled by an airplane propeller attached to an engine such as one commonly used in swamp lands ) on "still" water will move due to thrust generated by the propeller. The same boat at the same propeller rpm but now has a 10 mph current under the boat will move forward "against" the current at the same speed ( air speed ) but will have a faster water speed indicated by 10 mph or "with" the current with a slower water speed by 10 mph, but the boat will travel across the planet at exactly the same speed in all 3 scenerios. Got it yet?:D

[clownpuncher]

Here's something that just crossed my mind.
Wouldn't the bearings on the wheels and friction on the tires be exponential?
Due to the plane needs to go 100mph to lift off, but yet the treadmill will go 100mph..... then they plane will be spinning 500mph and the treadmilll 500mph.... 1000mph? That's alot of friction.
Any thoughts?
That's not really what exponential means, but, I get what your saying. Still, you're wrong:devil: :D

[hoolign]

Very good. See you know how it works.
You should take the pic of that plane down! :rolleyes:

[pw_Tony]

That's not really what exponential means, but, I get what your saying. Still, you're wrong:devil: :D
Yes it is... but it doesn't make any factor?

[Miss Perfect]

Your propeller is pulling air, which is still, other than prevailing wind. The air is not moving in reverse with the treadmill track. Your propeller (or jet) has nothing to do with treadmill under the tires. The propeller will move the plane forward relative to the air and the ground thus gaining sufficient airspeed (and lift) to take off normally.
Like I said before, there are too many variables. You are assuming that the plane will move forward on the treadmill. Answer the same question, but knowing that the treadmill will always match the speed of the plane. :messedup:

[beaverretriever]

Every single person that said it won't fly... take your life ..please. My god people..do you not understand simple physics?? There is no bloody driveshaft powering the planes wheels..it does not rely on the wheels for applying forward motion...the damn wheels are there to let the plane "roll" as it appiles "thrust" ..which is the mechanism of propulsion..not to propel it!! Prop or jet ..it does not matter.. ..
THE WHEELS ARE ONLY ALONG FOR THE RIDE!!!:rolleyes:
LOL...
I can't believe the poll is as close as it is. There must be a ton of L Ron Hubbard lovers on here...:D They would believe that the thing wouldn't take off.

[hoolign]

Here's something that just crossed my mind.
Wouldn't the bearings on the wheels and friction on the tires be exponential?
Due to the plane needs to go 100mph to lift off, but yet the treadmill will go 100mph..... then they plane will be spinning 500mph and the treadmilll 500mph.... 1000mph? That's alot of friction.
Any thoughts?
I have a couple..but I'll keep my mouth shut. :D

[WYRD]

Now how bout if a sea plane was on a treadmill would it be able to take off?:idea: :jawdrop:

[clownpuncher]

Like I said before, there are too many variables. You are assuming that the plane will move forward on the treadmill. Answer the same question, but knowing that the treadmill will always match the speed of the plane. :messedup:
AHHHH - IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!!! The damn thing will take off
That's it, I need a beer:) :D

[beaverretriever]

Now how bout if a sea plane was on a treadmill would it be able to take off?:idea: :jawdrop:
If the treadmill was very slick, yes.:D

[Instigators]

What scares me most is that I have to boat with these people on the same lake. Now that scares the hell outta me. No common or rational sense.:sqeyes:

[WYRD]

Like I said before, there are too many variables. You are assuming that the plane will move forward on the treadmill. Answer the same question, but knowing that the treadmill will always match the speed of the plane. :messedup:
As long as you have a bearing that will hold the friction of the treadmill it will only make the wheels spin faster, yet the plane will still move forward:)

[WYRD]

Now how bout if a sea plane was on a treadmill would it be able to take off?:idea: :jawdrop:
If the treadmill was very slick, yes.:D
I would pay to see that one:D

[Tremor Therapy]

I get it, I get it...do I? :confused:
If I get this right, the yes camp is saying that the planes method of propulsion is against the air, not the ground, so regardless of what the treadmill does, you will be able to achieve liftoff.
The no camp is stating that since you can't achieve any ground speed, you will be unable to achieve any air speed, thus you will be unable to achieve liftoff.
Something like that? :idea:

[Rexone]

Like I said before, there are too many variables. You are assuming that the plane will move forward on the treadmill. Answer the same question, but knowing that the treadmill will always match the speed of the plane. :messedup:
Assuming the propeller is turning, the plane WILL move forward regardless of treadmill speed.
The air is still. The air is not attached to the treadmill speed. The propeller WILL move through the air as it normally does. There are not any variables great enough to affect takeoff unless you make them up.
Ok I can't repeat any longer. Rexone is done flying for today. :D

[pw_Tony]

I have a couple..but I'll keep my mouth shut. :D
Such as?

[McIntyrelocal]

im up in the air (pun intended) about it.TEEEHEEEE
I think im funny.:D :D

[MR.rvrluvr]

i don't care how fast the wheels are spinning....it can't fly with out wind...:idea:

[Miss Perfect]

What scares me most is that I have to boat with these people on the same lake. Now that scares the hell outta me. No common or rational sense.:sqeyes:
I don't think you need to insult people, but no worries...I am only a passenger in havasu. :rolleyes:

[Tom Brown]

Ok I can't repeat any longer. Rexone is done flying for today. :D
Hey... don't be like that. We are just starting to get to the bottom of this thing.

[hoolign]

Such as?
All I'm going to say here is "you people don't understand what makes a plane move" :rolleyes:

[Miss Perfect]

Assuming the propeller is turning, the plane WILL move forward regardless of treadmill speed.
The air is still. The air is not attached to the treadmill speed. The propeller WILL move through the air as it normally does. There are not any variables great enough to affect takeoff unless you make them up.
Ok I can't repeat any longer. Rexone is done flying for today. :D
I kind of see your point here. I was looking at it so that the plane would not move at all, the treadmill would just go faster and keep it in one place. But yes...now I see that maybe the plane will go forward regardless of how fast the treadmill is going. Ahhhh hell....now I am on the fence. :hammer2:

[hoolign]

I get it, I get it...do I? :confused:
If I get this right, the yes camp is saying that the planes method of propulsion is against the air, not the ground, so regardless of what the treadmill does, you will be able to achieve liftoff.
The no camp is stating that since you can't achieve any ground speed, you will be unable to achieve any air speed, thus you will be unable to achieve liftoff.
Something like that? :idea:
Your catching on! The "no" camp needs to stop..and think about this fo a bit!

[clownpuncher]

All I'm going to say here is "you people don't understand what makes a plane move" :rolleyes:
LOL, "you people":eek: :D

[73kona455]

i don't care how fast the wheels are spinning....it can't fly with out wind...:idea:
the wheels have nothing to do with airspeed.:eek: :eek: .... a plane that lands on snow has no wheels at all.. only ski's....:D :D :D

[clownpuncher]

I kind of see your point here. I was looking at it so that the plane would not move at all, the treadmill would just go faster and keep it in one place. But yes...now I see that maybe the plane will go forward regardless of how fast the treadmill is going. Ahhhh hell....now I am on the fence. :hammer2:
There you go. Go with it, it'll click like a freakin light bulb in a bit. Vote "yes" now, you'll be glad you did.:D

[Rexone]

Hey... don't be like that. We are just starting to get to the bottom of this thing.
Brown don't piss me off more than you already have and cause me to start throwing down demerits and infractions. :mad:

[Miss Perfect]

There you go. Go with it, it'll click like a freakin light bulb in a bit. Vote "yes" now, you'll be glad you did.:D
It's too late, I already voted no. But if it helps, I am starting to see the light.

[pw_Tony]

Your catching on! The "no" camp needs to stop..and think about this fo a bit!
I believe it could take off. But theortically if the treadmill is going the same speed of the tires wouldn't that effect it at all? Bearing failure wouldn't slow the plane down?

[beaverretriever]

Jesco, it makes no difference if the treadmill is moving at 50 mph or 1000 mph. The wheels are freewheeling and have no bearing upon the speed of the air moving across the wing. As I explained, even if the plane is tied to the ground it will still fly if the air is moving across the wing at sufficient speed to create lift. Lift is not created by the speed of the wheels whether forward or backwards or whatever. Lift is created by air movement across the wing. Generally, the lighter the plane or the larger(more sq inches-ft) the wing- the less amount of airspeed is needed to create the needed lift to cause the plane to fly.
Rio
Rio, joining the fight with the retriever (yeah, I talked about myself in the 3rd person). :D :D
I am still blown away how close the poll is. I seriously think people are voting for "it won't take off" as a joke. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :idea: :D

[hoolign]

Hooli, I just think they don't know what forces are playing against each other to cause the plane to do what it does.
Rio
this is so bloody funny! I can't believe " No it wont fly" OMG I'm dying here :D :D :D

[jesco]

Jesco, it makes no difference if the treadmill is moving at 50 mph or 1000 mph. The wheels are freewheeling and have no bearing upon the speed of the air moving across the wing. As I explained, even if the plane is tied to the ground it will still fly if the air is moving across the wing at sufficient speed to create lift. Lift is not created by the speed of the wheels whether forward or backwards or whatever. Lift is created by air movement across the wing. Generally, the lighter the plane or the larger(more sq inches-ft) the wing- the less amount of airspeed is needed to create the needed lift to cause the plane to fly.
Rio
Exactly, there is no air moving across the wings. The plane is not moving. You need that wind for lift..like you just said...If the plane is on a treadmill with it spinning at the same rate of speed that the plane engine is creating then where does the lift come into play?

[Miss Perfect]

Miss Perfect, (I'm not yelling!) I'd just love to take you for a plane ride an splain the facts of life,xx err what makes a plain fly. Heck, I'd even let you fly the plane and then you could join the mile-high club.:D
Rio
GAWD...I said I get it already. It just took me a bit. :D

[soupersonic]

I just asked my wife this question if it would take off or not. Even my wife says "of course it would fly" :D

[2forcefull]

here's what the pilot said
Man I might be foc'd, with all the woops in the road
I won't be able to get enough MPH to get the plane off the ground
It dosen't matter how fast the props turn'n, I need to get mph to fly
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42649&stc=1&d=1194494015

[Miss Perfect]

Exactly, there is no air moving across the wings. The plane is not moving. You need that wind for lift..like you just said...If the plane is on a treadmill with it spinning at the same rate of speed that the plane engine is creating then where does the lift come into play?
Ok Jesco...this is where I went wrong too. The plane will move forward. The wheels will match the treadmill, but the propeller will pull it forward...even if those wheels/treadmill are going a gazillion miles an hour. Geez, why don't you all get this already :D

[riverroyal]

the plane has ZERO forward movement correct?If the jets or propellor create more thrust then the treadmill speed increases,correct?If the plane isnt moving forward there wont be enough "lift" or pressure differential on the wings to raise the plane.Now if the plane isnt standing still then it will fly.So the plane needs to be held in place.The thrust will push it forward no matter what SPEED the treadmill is going

[clownpuncher]

Exactly, there is no air moving across the wings. The plane is not moving. You need that wind for lift..like you just said...If the plane is on a treadmill with it spinning at the same rate of speed that the plane engine is creating then where does the lift come into play?
I give up:rolleyes:

[riverroyal]

Ok Jesco...this is where I went wrong too. The plane will move forward. The wheels will match the treadmill, but the propeller will pull it forward...even if those wheels/treadmill are going a gazillion miles an hour. Geez, why don't you all get this already :D
we are all jeanouses here

[Miss Perfect]

I give up:rolleyes:
No no no, don't give up just yet. I got, they will get it too eventually. :hammer2:

[hoolign]

I believe it could take off. But theortically if the treadmill is going the same speed of the tires wouldn't that effect it at all? Bearing failure wouldn't slow the plane down?
Oh don't confuse them anymore than they already are!:D

[beaverretriever]

Gawddamn, I am so pleased that I started the Plane/Treadmill threads. I have literally not posted but a couple of times in the past weeks but this stuff makes it alllllll better. :D

[pw_Tony]

Oh don't confuse them anymore than they already are!:D
Yes but are we talking "literally" or "hypothetically" on this plane taking off?
In real life that could be a factor... in physics it wouldn't be

[Riverkid]

the plane has ZERO forward movement correct?If the jets or propellor create more thrust then the treadmill speed increases,correct?If the plane isnt moving forward there wont be enough "lift" or pressure differential on the wings to raise the plane.Now if the plane isnt standing still then it will fly.So the plane needs to be held in place.The thrust will push it forward no matter what SPEED the treadmill is going
Without the correct take off speed (lift) she's in the bushes! :D

[jesco]

Ok Jesco...this is where I went wrong too. The plane will move forward. The wheels will match the treadmill, but the propeller will pull it forward...even if those wheels/treadmill are going a gazillion miles an hour. Geez, why don't you all get this already :D
Yes, you are correct if the plane moves forward faster then the treadmill. But I think most people,including me are assuming (yes I know what happens) that the question is meant to be read that the plane will not move forward, that the treadmill will keep up with its "land speed"... I dont know.

[hoolign]

Yes but are we talking "literally" or "hypothetically" on this plane taking off?
In real life that could be a factor... in physics it wouldn't be
I'm "Literally" shaking my head.. at the "No people" LOL:D

[hoolign]

Yes, you are correct if the plane moves forward faster then the treadmill. But I think most people,including me are assuming (yes I know what happens) that the question is meant to be read that the plane will not move forward, that the treadmill will keep up with its "land speed"... I dont know.
No soup for you...3 years! :rolleyes:

[Instigators]

Jordy might have to add a new word to his vocabulary. :confused: " wrong " :D
He's not gonna live this down for a while.:D
View Poll Results: Will the plane take off from a moving treadmill?
Yes, the damn thing will take off :
73beast, 73kona455, AZJD, beaverretriever, clownpuncher, CornWater, Froggystyle,
Havasu1986, hoolign, HPBoats83, Instigators, LaveyJet, MADDOG355, maxwedge, mickeyfinn,
Moneypitt, OCMerrill, Oldsquirt, Phat Matt, RatherBeInLHC, Rexone, riodog, sanger rat, Sleek-Jet,
soupersonic, squirt'nmyload, ULTRA28, WYRD, ~FM 29 51.79%
No, ain't gonna take off :
24sleekenforcer, AZKC, bchbum, BEER&WATER, boatsnblondes, Chubby4Life, essexjet, Excessive Force,
Faceaz, Forensic, grads2112, jesco, Jordy, kylesbds,
Miss Perfect, N2Lake, OGShocker, OverKill, pw_Tony, scottneedsaboat, Some Kind Of Monster,
SummitKarl, titties and beer, Trailer Park Casanova, ULTRA26 # 1, Wet Dream, XFactor 27 48.21%

[hoolign]

Jordy might have to add a new word to his vocabulary. :confused: " wrong " :D He's not gonna live this down for a while.:D
View Poll Results: Will tee plane take off from a moving treadmill?
Yes, the damn thing will take off :
73beast, 73kona455, AZJD, beaverretriever, clownpuncher, CornWater, Froggystyle, Havasu1986, hoolign, HPBoats83, Instigators, LaveyJet, MADDOG355, maxwedge, mickeyfinn, Moneypitt, OCMerrill, Oldsquirt, Phat Matt, RatherBeInLHC, Rexone, riodog, sanger rat, Sleek-Jet, soupersonic, squirt'nmyload, ULTRA28, WYRD, ~FM 29 51.79%
No, ain't gonna take off :
24sleekenforcer, AZKC, bchbum, BEER&WATER, boatsnblondes, Chubby4Life, essexjet, Excessive Force, Faceaz, Forensic, grads2112, jesco, Jordy, kylesbds, Miss Perfect, N2Lake, OGShocker, OverKill, pw_Tony, scottneedsaboat, Some Kind Of Monster, SummitKarl, titties and beer, Trailer Park Casanova, ULTRA26 # 1, Wet Dream, XFactor 27 48.21%
Well..without sounding cruel..oh hell ..I can't do it.. just under half this place is retarded:D :D

[beaverretriever]

Oh shit,,,, the poll is tied. Our universe is going to end. Its like the Reps and the Dems going at it. :D :D :D

[riverroyal]

or maybe we read it wrong.The plane is not held stationary.Its just on the treadmill,only the wheels touching.So it will drive right off the threadmill with the wheels going a billion mph

[OverKill]

You should take the pic of that plane down! :rolleyes:
No you should take a ride in a plane on a treadmill and ask why your plane is delayed. It's simple put the treadmill at 100mph and the planes thrust equivalent to 100mph, the plane wont fly until you gradually raise the plane to pull it's self forward. Again you have to have low preasure under the wings to get it to fly, and to do that the FRIGGEN Plane has to move forward.
OverKill
P.S. Are we there yet

[Instigators]

or maybe we read it wrong.The plane is not held stationary.Its just on the treadmill,only the wheels touching.So it will drive right off the threadmill with the wheels going a billion mph
Exactly. It's called flight.:D
It will FLY RIGHT OFF THE TREADMILL

[Instigators]

No you should take a ride in a plane on a treadmill and ask why your plane is delayed. It's simple put the treadmill at 100mph and the planes thrust equivalent to 100mph, the plane wont fly until you gradually raise the plane to pull it's self forward. Again you have to have low preasure under the wings to get it to fly, and to do that the FRIGGEN Plane has to move forward.
OverKill
P.S. Are we there yet
Dude, I bet your a killer pilot.:D
ROTFLMAO

[Riverkid]

or maybe we read it wrong.The plane is not held stationary.Its just on the treadmill,only the wheels touching.So it will drive right off the threadmill with the wheels going a billion mph''
will kick in. It needs a "Juice"... :)

[2forcefull]

the theory is
treadmill takes the forward roll of the wheels away, the plane stay
stationary, no land speed, no flight
simple test,
get a plane and take off the wheels creating the stationary plane
and see how far you go
the only way you will go anywhere is in a helicopter
now look a a helicopter, see how big the propeller is compared
to the helicopter
same as the little toy rubber band planes, they put them big ass
props on them that would wack the shiat out of your fingers
and you would have to throw the plane to get it to fly!!!
when I used to fly out of paso robles, In like a 49 bonanza
the prop would be haul'n ass, but we needed the whole airport
runway to get up speed to lift off

[soupersonic]

or maybe we read it wrong.The plane is not held stationary.Its just on the treadmill,only the wheels touching.So it will drive right off the threadmill with the wheels going a billion mph
Ding !! We have a winner :D

[Miss Perfect]

Dude, I bet your a killer pilot.:D
ROTFLMAO
Yet another insult. You are not very nice.

[Instigators]

the theory is
treadmill takes the forward roll of the wheels away, the plane stay
stationary, no land speed, no flight
simple test,
get a plane and take off the wheels creating the stationary plane
and see how far you go
the only way you will go anywhere is in a helicopter
now look a a helicopter, see how big the propeller is compared
to the helicopter
same as the little toy rubber band planes, they put them big ass
props on them that would wack the shiat out of your fingers
and you would have to throw the plane to get it to fly!!!
when I used to fly out of paso robles, In like a 49 bonanza
the prop would be haul'n ass, but we needed the whole airport
runway to get up speed to lift off
Did you go to the OverKill Flight School?:D

[OverKill]

the plane has ZERO forward movement correct?If the jets or propellor create more thrust then the treadmill speed increases,correct?If the plane isnt moving forward there wont be enough "lift" or pressure differential on the wings to raise the plane.Now if the plane isnt standing still then it will fly.So the plane needs to be held in place.The thrust will push it forward no matter what SPEED the treadmill is going
The only way the thrust will push or pull the plane forward is if the Thrust is greater than belt speed of the treadmill. For example if the treadmill belt is spinning at 100mph and the planes thrust is X Pounds of thrust being equal to 100mph belt speed than it will not move.
And for all those Prop Buffs such as myself. Wind thust from a prop plane isn't enough to create low preasure and lift a plane.
OverKill

[Baja Big Dog]

Goddamn bunch of dumbass', regardless of the lift required, if the molecules of air that are the positive charge that is required by all moving objects, to overcome the generic drag we have to deal with every day because of physics.
The power required to move me has been accomplished, because..
I drove down and got insurance for Geico.com....:D :D

[OverKill]

Did you go to the OverKill Flight School?:D
Very firggen funny :D

[2forcefull]

Did you go to the OverKill Flight School?:D
I'm still alive ain't I, lot of know it all can't tell em nothing
youngsters dead as mo fo's though

[hoolign]

No you should take a ride in a plane on a treadmill and ask why your plane is delayed. It's simple put the treadmill at 100mph and the planes thrust equivalent to 100mph, the plane wont fly until you gradually raise the plane to pull it's self forward. Again you have to have low preasure under the wings to get it to fly, and to do that the FRIGGEN Plane has to move forward.
OverKill
P.S. Are we there yet
Again..take the pic down..take it down now..do not ever tell anyone you can fly a plane..ever!
You just proved that the wheels will go 100mph...with the plane at 0..now just give it a bit of thrust..c'mon just a bit more..what just happened?? the plane moved forward..give it some more ..what's happening?? the wheels might be doing 500 mph backwards....but the plane is moving forward..the prop, or jet is pullling air thorugh creating thrust... causing it to move forward!
:rolleyes:

[OCMerrill]

The only way the thrust will push or pull the plane forward is if the Thrust is greater than belt speed of the treadmill. For example if the treadmill belt is spinning at 100mph and the planes thrust is X Pounds of thrust being equal to 100mph belt speed than it will not move.
And for all those Prop Buffs such as myself. Wind thust from a prop plane isn't enough to create low preasure and lift a plane.
OverKill
You know.....Awh fukit...nobody reads my shit anyway.:idea:

[OverKill]

Without the correct take off speed (lift) she's in the bushes! :D
Thats REEDS man REEDS :D

[24sleekenforcer]

This is too damn funny.......

[Riverkid]

And you're getting dirty! :D :D

[2forcefull]

the part most of you are over look'n is a propped plane
works mostly on glide
a jet will take off, you wont have any control till you reach flight speed
cause your rudders will be useless , kind of like a jet boat thats haul'n
ass in to a cove and kill the motor

[hoolign]

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3897/chickeneggau9.gif (http://imageshack.us)
:idea:
:D :D :D :D
Now we need to introduce thrust..a golf club can provide that for us..WHACK THAT FUĊKING CHICKEN..oh..bye bye chicken:D

[OverKill]

Again..take the pic down..take it down now..do not ever tell anyone you can fly a plane..ever!
You just proved that the wheels will go 100mph...with the plane at 0..now just give it a bit of thrust..c'mon just a bit more..what just happened?? the plane moved forward..give it some more ..what's happening?? the wheels might be doing 500 mph backwards....but the plane is moving forward..the prop, or jet is pullling air thorugh creating thrust... causing it to move forward!
:rolleyes:
The damn Treadmill is making the wheels move right? Lets say I just put the plane on the treadmill with the engines off, the plane would just fall off the treadmill right. So I have to engage thurst to pull myself/plane back on the treadmill. It isn't until my thurst is greater than the belt speed of the treadmill will I gain any thing.
OverKill

[Instigators]

The damn Treadmill is making the wheels move right? Lets say I just put the plane on the treadmill with the engines off, the plane would just fall off the treadmill right. So I have to engage thurst to pull myself/plane back on the treadmill. It isn't until my thurst is greater than the belt speed of the treadmill will I gain any thing.
OverKill
Man you got your hand on the light switch now just turn it on.
The damn Treadmill is making the wheels move right? ****Yes****Lets say I just put the plane on the treadmill with the engines off, the plane would just fall off the treadmill right.****Exactly**** So I have to engage thurst to pull myself/plane back on the treadmill. *** By generating thrust which causes airspeed***** It isn't until my thurst is greater than the belt speed of the treadmill will I gain any thing.*****Just add a little more thrust which increases airspeed and VIOLA your FLYING*****
Is the light on yet?:D

[OCMerrill]

The damn Treadmill is making the wheels move right? Lets say I just put the plane on the treadmill with the engines off, the plane would just fall off the treadmill right. So I have to engage thurst to pull myself/plane back on the treadmill. It isn't until my thurst is greater than the belt speed of the treadmill will I gain any thing.
OverKill
Which is the same thrust it would take you to pull away from your tie down spot. Maybe a little more if you factor in wheel bearing resistance, tire rolling resistance, and maybe weight aiding in those resistances. I am not talking about coasting but the initial thrust you apply to get the plane moving.

[hoolign]

I had to google this debate..and apparently Pilots have this same argument (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/136068/) LMOA ..oh brother!:D

[2forcefull]

Man you got your hand on the light switch now just turn it on.
The damn Treadmill is making the wheels move right? ****Yes****Lets say I just put the plane on the treadmill with the engines off, the plane would just fall off the treadmill right.****Exactly**** So I have to engage thurst to pull myself/plane back on the treadmill. *** By generating thrust which causes airspeed***** It isn't until my thurst is greater than the belt speed of the treadmill will I gain any thing.*****Just add a little more thrust which increases airspeed and VIOLA your FLYING*****
Is the light on yet?:D
so you're say'n if I turn my fan on high it will fly across the room???

[riverroyal]

if the plane needs 200mph to lift off ,at the end of the runway the plane will be traveling 200mph forward,the treadmill will be going 200mph backwards(the treadmill will need to set up to match plane speed) and the wheels will be going 400mph by lift off.
And to think I graduated high school with a D average,im a fricken jeanous

[clownpuncher]

. Again you have to have low preasure under the wings to get it to fly, and to do that the FRIGGEN Plane has to move forward.
OverKill
P.S. Are we there yet
OK, not to doubt your stick skills, BUT, I was under the impression that you had to have
low pressure above the wings to get it to fly? No?

[riverroyal]

so you're say'n if I turn my fan on high it will fly across the room???
that hits it

[OverKill]

OK I just called the airport here in Mesa Arizona. I talked with the air traffic controler and he tells me the same thing. It won't fly.
OverKill

[Instigators]

I had to google this debate..and apparently Pilots have this same argument (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/136068/) LMOA ..oh brother!:D
Next time I fly, I'm askin the Pilot this question and if he answers "No" I'm turning around and going back to the Bar and havin another drink until some pilot answers "Yes". Then I'm gonna buy him a drink and ask him if he'll fly me to my desination. I would rather take my chances with an Intoxicated Smart Pilot than a Sober Dumbazz One.:D

[OverKill]

OK, not to doubt your stick skills, BUT, I was under the impression that you had to have
low pressure above the wings to get it to fly? No?
Sorry bout that your right

[beaverretriever]

OK I just called the airport here in Mesa Arizona. I talked with the air traffic controler and he tells me the same thing. It won't fly.
OverKill
Thinking to myself: Please God, may I never have to fly into Mesa Az. :D

[Instigators]

OK I just called the airport here in Mesa Arizona. I talked with the air traffic controler and he tells me the same thing. It won't fly.
OverKill
And we wonder why we are running out of Air Traffic Controllers. They can't pass the Exam.:D

[hoolign]

OK, not to doubt your stick skills, BUT, I was under the impression that you had to have
low pressure above the wings to get it to fly? No?
The treadmill cancells out pressure differentials.. :D

[Some Kind Of Monster]

Anyone that seriously voted that this plane will fly on a treadmill is either on crack or was born yesterday. An airplane requires air moving over the wing to create a low pressure and lift. No air over the wing = NO LIFT NO FLIGHT. The treadmill can be going 10000000 miles per hour, the plane will not fly.
There is a simple test you can do at home! Try this kiddies!
Pick a model plane up, spin the wheels as fast as you can with your hands and drop it. Then go buy another plane because yours is broken.

[sanger rat]

The treadmill has nothing to do with it flying. If it was a Seaplane a on a river with a 100 mph current it would fly before it spun out in the reeds.:) :D

[2forcefull]

Pick a model plane up, spin the wheels as fast as you can with your hands and drop it. Then go but another plane because yours is broken.[/QUOTE]
LMFAO!!!

[riverroyal]

Anyone that seriously voted that this plane will fly on a treadmill is either on crack or was born yesterday. An airplane requires air moving over the wing to create a low pressure and lift. No air over the wing = NO LIFT NO FLIGHT. The treadmill can be going 10000000 miles per hour, the plane will not fly.
There is a simple test you can do at home! Try this kiddies!
Pick a model plane up, spin the wheels as fast as you can with your hands and drop it. Then go but another plane because yours is broken.
mile a hour,is the plane?Thats why I said the question leaves out some info.The plane is NOT held in place with a cable from the tail.Imagine Astro from the jetsons,the treadmill was hauling ass,he was on his leash,without it he would have went forward

[clownpuncher]

Anyone that seriously voted that this plane will fly on a treadmill is either on crack or was born yesterday. An airplane requires air moving over the wing to create a low pressure and lift. No air over the wing = NO LIFT NO FLIGHT. The treadmill can be going 10000000 miles per hour, the plane will not fly.
There is a simple test you can do at home! Try this kiddies!
Pick a model plane up, spin the wheels as fast as you can with your hands and drop it. Then go but another plane because yours is broken.
Watch AZJD's video. I think you may be missing the point.;)

[Some Kind Of Monster]

mile a hour,is the plane?Thats why I said the question leaves out some info.The plane is NOT held in place with a cable from the tail.Imagine Astro from the jetsons,the treadmill was hauling ass,he was on his leash,without it he would have went forward
I see your point... Definitely details are missing. The word "positioned" suggests it is held back though.

[beaverretriever]

I am BLOWN away that the poll is going this way. I can't believe people don't understand aeronautics or physics even on a jr high level. :eek:
Best thread ever. This place seriously gets me laughing. Thanks for all the smiles guys. Right or wrong. ;)

[riverroyal]

I am BLOWN away that the poll is going this way. I can't believe people don't understand aeronautics or physics even on a jr high level. :eek:
Best thread ever. This place seriously gets me laughing. Thanks for all the smiles guys. Right or wrong. ;)
been fun

[riverroyal]

I see your point... Definitely details are missing. The word "positioned" suggests it is held back though.
then,no it wont fly

[Some Kind Of Monster]

Furthermore, it would have to be one hell of a LONG treadmill (post only states large scale) because it would take it forever to get up to speed with the wheels spinning in reverse ;-)

[beaverretriever]

Seriously guys. I am getting a little scared you are not getting it. I can't wait till Mythbusters shows the plane will take off.
Given the constraing of a situation that can actually be created in our universe using finite resources, I'd say that the definition of the treadmill's speed would be that it moves backward at the same rate as the plane moves forward relative to the world beyond the treadmill.
That is, if the fuselage and wings move 10 feet away from the starting point, a dot painted on some arbitrary location on the treadmill will move the opposite direction 10 feet.
If the plane moves away from the starting point (relative to planet earth, beyond the treadmill) at 50 MPH, the dot painted on the treadmill will be observed traveling the opposite direction, also at 50 MPH. At this rate, there should be 50 MPH of wind moving over those wings, and the differential between the plane and the treadmill's surface will be 100 miles per hour, thus the wheels will be spinning twice as fast as normal, but since they're on bearings and not driven directly by any kind of propulsion on their own, they will simply coast along happily as if going 100 MPH.
As the plane accellerates, the treadmill will also, doubling the amount of speed the wheels are coasting, but otherwise having zero effect on the plane. The plane will also make progress down the runway, and thus progress through the air surrounding it. Assuming we're talking about a small plane, such as a single-prop Cessna, it should be able to get airborne around 60-70 MPH, at which point the wheels are no longer attached to the treadmill, meaning that the plan has, in fact, lifted off from a treadmill.
Now, you can imagine a world where a treadmill can spin to a nearly infinite speed, but that does require some really good, nearly frictionless bearings for the treadmill. Assuming one could borrow that same bearing technology for the plane's wheels, you have yet another dilemma on your hands.

[OverKill]

I am BLOWN away that the poll is going this way. I can't believe people don't understand aeronautics or physics even on a jr high level. :eek:
Best thread ever. This place seriously gets me laughing. Thanks for all the smiles guys. Right or wrong. ;)
Fun indead. I in fact did very well in physics in HS. It's funny how a simple question can really divide you mind in half.

[riverroyal]

Furthermore, it would have to be one hell of a LONG treadmill (post only states large scale) because it would take it forever to get up to speed with the wheels spinning in reverse ;-)
the are going roughly twice the speed of the treadmill.If the plane is going 200mph forward,treadmill would be 200 backward,wheels would be going 400 forward:idea:

[Riverkid]

the are going roughly twice the speed of the treadmill.If the plane is going 200mph forward,treadmill would be 200 backward,wheels would be going 400 forward:idea:
and shit... :D

[Some Kind Of Monster]

the are going roughly twice the speed of the treadmill.If the plane is going 200mph forward,treadmill would be 200 backward,wheels would be going 400 forward:idea:
Ill draw a diagram! Maybe I have the wrong picture in my head,,

[riverroyal]

Seriously guys. I am getting a little scared you are not getting it. I can't wait till Mythbusters shows the plane will take off.
Given the constraing of a situation that can actually be created in our universe using finite resources, I'd say that the definition of the treadmill's speed would be that it moves backward at the same rate as the plane moves forward relative to the world beyond the treadmill.
That is, if the fuselage and wings move 10 feet away from the starting point, a dot painted on some arbitrary location on the treadmill will move the opposite direction 10 feet.
If the plane moves away from the starting point (relative to planet earth, beyond the treadmill) at 50 MPH, the dot painted on the treadmill will be observed traveling the opposite direction, also at 50 MPH. At this rate, there should be 50 MPH of wind moving over those wings, and the differential between the plane and the treadmill's surface will be 100 miles per hour, thus the wheels will be spinning twice as fast as normal, but since they're on bearings and not driven directly by any kind of propulsion on their own, they will simply coast along happily as if going 100 MPH.
As the plane accellerates, the treadmill will also, doubling the amount of speed the wheels are coasting, but otherwise having zero effect on the plane. The plane will also make progress down the runway, and thus progress through the air surrounding it. Assuming we're talking about a small plane, such as a single-prop Cessna, it should be able to get airborne around 60-70 MPH, at which point the wheels are no longer attached to the treadmill, meaning that the plan has, in fact, lifted off from a treadmill.
Now, you can imagine a world where a treadmill can spin to a nearly infinite speed, but that does require some really good, nearly frictionless bearings for the treadmill. Assuming one could borrow that same bearing technology for the plane's wheels, you have yet another dilemma on your hands.
3 hours ago!!!:D

[riverroyal]

Ill draw a diagram! Maybe I have the wrong picture in my head,,
stick people for flight attendants

[Racey]

This is about as split as the last presidential election :eek:
wow i guess half the country really is stupid :D :D :D

[2forcefull]

Here's how it works, plane speed is gradual,
at o mph the plane has full weight on the wheels
as it moves foward, the weight gets lighter
the weight comes off the wheels cause of the air lift
the lighter the weight on the wheels the more the plane starts to glide
same as a boat when it gets on plane
if you put a thirty mile an hour boat in
a thirty mile an hour current it will never get on plane

[OverKill]

This is about as split as the last presidential election :eek:
wow i guess half the country really is stupid :D :D :D
So you must be on the stupid it can fly side right??:D

[squirt'nmyload]

OK I just called the airport here in Mesa Arizona. I talked with the air traffic controler and he tells me the same thing. It won't fly.
OverKill
at falcon field??? thats not saying much since that is the same guy that works at the chevron there :D :D

[Some Kind Of Monster]

These wheels are in fact moving in reverse despiite the plane moving forward. The plane speed cannot equal the speed of the treadmill (drag).
http://www.***boat.com/FORUMS/attachment.php?attachmentid=42660&stc=1&d=1194499248

[hoolign]

Here's how it works, plane speed is gradual,
at o mph the plane has full weight on the wheels
as it moves foward, the weight gets lighter
the weight comes off the wheels cause of the air lift
the lighter the weight on the wheels the more the plane starts to glide
same as a boat when it gets on plane
if you put a thirty mile an hour boat in
a thirty mile an hour current it will never get on plane
The only way to compare that is by putting drivehafts, differentials and axels to the planes wheels!.. and eliminating the prop or jet!! :rolleyes:

[Some Kind Of Monster]

Here's how it works, plane speed is gradual,
at o mph the plane has full weight on the wheels
as it moves foward, the weight gets lighter
the weight comes off the wheels cause of the air lift
the lighter the weight on the wheels the more the plane starts to glide
same as a boat when it gets on plane
if you put a thirty mile an hour boat in
a thirty mile an hour current it will never get on plane
YES it will! ;)

[OverKill]

at falcon field??? thats not saying much since that is the same guy that works at the chevron there :D :D
LMAO thats who I called B. You know he's right.:D

[JAY4SPEED]

Whats the big deal? The earth rotating is in fact a GIANT treadmill and planes take off every day. It's all about perspective. For the record, I voted for yes it will take off so I can say "I told you so" later on.
Jay

[OverKill]

These wheels are in fact moving in reverse despiite the plane moving forward. The plane speed cannot equal the speed of the treadmill (drag).
http://www.***boat.com/FORUMS/attachment.php?attachmentid=42660&stc=1&d=1194499248
Billy the wheels are moving in the forward direction twice as fast by the treadmill not reverse. The plane can equal the speed of the treadmill by forward thrust. And by being equal to the treadmill robs the plane moving forward to gain speed to fly.

[pw_Tony]

These wheels are in fact moving in reverse despiite the plane moving forward. The plane speed cannot equal the speed of the treadmill (drag).
http://www.***boat.com/FORUMS/attachment.php?attachmentid=42660&stc=1&d=1194499248
beautiful :D

[Instigators]

Here's how it works, plane speed is gradual,
at o mph the plane has full weight on the wheels
as it moves foward, the weight gets lighter
the weight comes off the wheels cause of the air lift
the lighter the weight on the wheels the more the plane starts to glide
same as a boat when it gets on plane
if you put a thirty mile an hour boat in
a thirty mile an hour current it will never get on plane
The speedometer will read 30mph and be on plane but the air speed will be zero if its going into the current and will never get anywhere. However if it is going with the current the speedometer the speedometer will read 30 mph on plane and the airspeed will be 60 mph and and haulin azz and will eventually spin out in the reeds.:D

[Instigators]

beautiful :D
That's cause your plane is powered by a Ford:D Thats the problem:D

[Some Kind Of Monster]

beautiful :D
Thanks!
The plane's wheels in my picture are moving in reverse. Unless you are talking about something else. That's why I drew the diagram!

[2forcefull]

ok, I'm chang'n sides,
because of the infinite lenth of the tread mill
this senerio would be the same as a pontoon plane,
it would still get foward propulsion
same as it would fly if it went against the current
so if the treadmill was going 100mph
and the plane was going 100 mph
the wheels would be going 200mph
now if you say the plane has to go a speed
that keeps it stationary, it won't fly

[hoolign]

Fixed the pic
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42661&stc=1&d=1194500478
:D

[Sleeper CP]

But the plane has to move forward to get lift.
So if the treadmill stays at the same speed as the plane then the plane cannot move forward.
The plane thrust is at 5mph, then the treadmill equals the 5mph on it, so then the plane has to gain more speed for take off at 20mph, yet the treadmill goes 20mph, etc...
So the plane will not take off if it can't overcome the mtching speed of the treadmill
Yeah, what he said. Tony in short you said all that needs to be said.
The original thesis is just as you put it. The conveyor will match what ever the wheel speed is. If that is the case from a relative position on the ground it would gain Zero ground speed.
As a jet even at full thrust it will be processing a lot of air thru the engines but it would have to have 150 mph air flow across the entire wing to create enough lift to make it take off.
As that one NASA info sheet stated; a one million pound jet may have 200,000 lbs of thrust; that is a power to weight ratio of .20:1 That may have enough power to push an airplane down the run way but it won't pick it up. That would take a power to weight ratio of 1:1 to achieve lift. That isn't going to happen with any commerical aircraft.
If you do an experiment don't do what I saw on the you-tube video's. The plane must be to scale: Power to weight and also wing span to relative size.
The first video I saw certainley wasn't and I doubt that the other one was either.
My belief is it won't fly as the thesis was stated; which you would have to assume the relative ground speed is zero. It could only gain lift if it had a power to weight ratio of 1:1 or greater.
Edit: With a power to weight ratio of 1:1 or greater it would be a rocket. They don't fly with lift they fly by thrust. Planes fly with lift and if the relative ground speed is Zero or less than the needed take off speed it won't fly. Has anyone mentioned why Aircraft carriers head into the wind when they are launching jets from a catapult. Even though the cat will accelerate a plane to 140 mph in that short burst the plane needs the extra airspeed of heading into the wind at 20+ knots from the launch platform(carrier) to make the relative airspeed 160+ it just adds to the safety factor so it won't stall and it's moving 140 plus.:idea:
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Hal]

Fixed the pic
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42661&stc=1&d=1194500478
:D
All you got to do in this picture is put the brakes on and the plane will take off.

[Some Kind Of Monster]

Fixed the pic
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42661&stc=1&d=1194500478
:D
Fokkk Simply proving that those wheels spin in reverse unless the motor is fired up. We didnt even discuss that. I have been assuming that the plane was dead stick. Are you all thinking otherwise?

[Some Kind Of Monster]

All you got to do in this picture is put the brakes on and the plane will take off.
Noone said squat about brakes.

[clownpuncher]

ok, I'm chang'n sides,
because of the infinite lenth of the tread mill
this senerio would be the same as a pontoon plane,
it would still get foward propulsion
same as it would fly if it went against the current
so if the treadmill was going 100mph
and the plane was going 100 mph
the wheels would be going 200mph
now if you say the plane has to go a speed
that keeps it stationary, it won't fly
Takes a good man to admit when he's wrong;)
Welcome, to the correct side:D

[Some Kind Of Monster]

Takes a good man to admit when he's wrong;)
Welcome, to the correct side:D
He wasn't "wrong" because everyone made up rules as the thread progressed.

[hoolign]

Fokkk Simply proving that those wheels spin in reverse unless the motor is fired up. We didnt even discuss that. I have been assuming that the plane was dead stick. Are you all thinking otherwise?
The planes engine is running;)

[Instigators]

Yeah, what he said. Tony in short you said all that needs to be said.
The original thesis is just as you put it. The conveyor will match what ever the wheel speed is. If that is the case from a relative position on the ground it would gain Zero ground speed.
As a jet even at full thrust it will be processing a lot of air thru the engines but it would have to have 150 mph air flow across the entire wing to create enough lift to make it take off.
As that one NASA info sheet stated; a one million pound jet may have 200,000 lbs of thrust; that is a power to weight ratio of .20:1 That may have enough power to push an airplane down the run way but it won't pick it up. That would take a power to weight ratio of 1:1 to achieve lift. That isn't going to happen with any commerical aircraft.
If you do an experiment don't do what I saw on the you-tube video's. The plane must be to scale: Power to weight and also wing span to relative size.
The first video I saw certainley wasn't and I doubt that the other one was either.
My belief is it won't fly as the thesis was stated; which you would have to assume the relative ground speed is zero. It could only gain lift if it had a power to weight ratio of 1:1 or greater.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
How bout this. Lets bolt a moving treadmill to a tire suspended from an airplane and watch the plane take off. Then when the plane figures out what you said we can watch the plane fall out of the sky. Whata Ya Think?:D

[Some Kind Of Monster]

The planes engine is running;)
Dammit I need another diagram..

[squirt'nmyload]

Dammit I need another diagram..
with the treadmill going the opposite way the plane would go

[pw_Tony]

Dammit I need another diagram..
Do it! haha

[hoolign]

Dammit I need another diagram..
Would you like me to send you some pictures of clouds to put under it?? :D :D

[clownpuncher]

He wasn't "wrong" because everyone made up rules as the thread progressed.
I'm not seeing where the rules were made up.
Same as always...........plane on an oversized runway, in motion from front to back in relation to the plane, will the plane take off or not?
I've said yes from the start.
Unless I read 2forceful incorrectly, I'm thinking he finally understood what was originally proposed and changed his mind.
It really isn't as difficult to understand as most of ya are making it.
Kind of a "it's so simple...it's hard" kinda thing.
Think about it some more, you too may change your mind;)

[Some Kind Of Monster]

So I am to assume this is the proper scenario that you are trying to propose?
http://www.***boat.com/FORUMS/attachment.php?attachmentid=42662&stc=1&d=1194501474

[hoolign]

:D :D
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42663&stc=1&d=1194501634

[squirt'nmyload]

So I am to assume this is the proper scenario that you are trying to propose?
http://www.***boat.com/FORUMS/attachment.php?attachmentid=42662&stc=1&d=1194501474
yes.....throttle up the motor and watch it take off!!

[clownpuncher]

So I am to assume this is the proper scenario that you are trying to propose?
That's basically it.
EDIT: That's what was originally proposed, not by me. I just posted this thread as a "poll" to see who thinks what.

[clownpuncher]

:D :D
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42663&stc=1&d=1194501634
You're ****ing killing me:D

[ClimbToFL350]

It will take-off.

[hoolign]

and flying back fo another look at the treadmill :D
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42664&stc=1&d=1194501847

[hoolign]

and a lil stunt flying ..just to show off after the take off
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42665&stc=1&d=1194501962

[Some Kind Of Monster]

If that is the proper scenatio, the plane isn't taking off UNLESS the motor is throttled forward until it more than compensates for the tread mill. If the throttle is suck that the plane is stationary in space, but the wheels are spinning, it will not fly. It will need the VS airspeed to take flight. It cannot take flight with a speed matching the treadmill because it's airspeed would be a big ZERO.

[Some Kind Of Monster]

yes.....throttle up the motor and watch it take off!!
That plane won't take off until the treadmill is compensated for. Zero airspeed.

[MADDOG355]

The only way the thrust will push or pull the plane forward is if the Thrust is greater than belt speed of the treadmill. For example if the treadmill belt is spinning at 100mph and the planes thrust is X Pounds of thrust being equal to 100mph belt speed than it will not move.
And for all those Prop Buffs such as myself. Wind thust from a prop plane isn't enough to create low preasure and lift a plane.
OverKill
You are right at the edge of it, The problem is you are thinking that it will take all the thrust to counteract the rolling resistance. This is not the case, rolling resistance would only take a small amount of thrust to overcome (10% or less).

[hoolign]

That plane won't take off until the treadmill is compensated for. Zero airspeed.
I'm gonna blow it up for trying to hold me back . PAP ..PAPPAP ..PAPPAP ..PAPPAP ..PAPPAP ..PAPPAP ..PAPPAP ..PAPPAP ..PAPPAP ..PAPPAP ..PAP
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42666&stc=1&d=1194502204

[clownpuncher]

If that is the proper scenatio, the plane isn't taking off UNLESS the motor is throttled forward until it more than compensates for the tread mill. If the throttle is suck that the plane is stationary in space, but the wheels are spinning, it will not fly. It will need the VS airspeed to take flight. It cannot take flight with a speed matching the treadmill because it's airspeed would be a big ZERO.
Somebody just shoot me:(
I still have faith that you'll get it soon enough.;)

[Some Kind Of Monster]

That clears up a lot. I never saw the original thread. Concerning these rules:
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction) instantly.
Will the plane be able to take off?
Not in a million years. That plane will not fly. It is NOT reaching it's VS and has zero airspeed.

[pw_Tony]

HOOLIGAN Please please stop! That is just too fockin funny.... this is becoming a very good thread ROTFLMFAO!

[Racey]

No more BS people, here is the original question, no more word games.
This was posted on another forum and it has gone about 40 pages so far. I cant believe people cant figure this out. Its scarry how dumb people are. :rolleyes:
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction) instantly.
Will the plane be able to take off?
Highlighted in red is proof that the plane will take off. here is why:
For the conveyor to start 'tracking the plane's speed'
the plane will actually have to move forward
So if the plane moves 10mph, the result would the be
the conveyor moving the opposite direction at 10mph.
So what we have is the plane Moving Forward at 10mph, and
The conveyor countering with an opposite movement of 10mph.
with a ground speed of the wheels at 20mph.
This is the same no matter what numbers you use, For Example:
150mph plane:
The plane Moving Forward at 150mph, and
The conveyor countering with an opposite movement of 150mph.
with a ground speed of the wheels at 300mph.
The thrust of the plane's engine will kick the shit out of the friction produced by the wheels every time, if it didn't NO PLANES COULD EVER TAKE OFF.
I would guess that it would take probably 10x, if not more, the speed of the plane on the conveyor to create enough friction to slow the plane down.
The Plane Takes off! screw you numbskulls that disagree, keep believing in Santa Claus while you're at it, I'm out! :D
Maybe if i simplify it for you, you will understand: imagine instead of a plane, you've got a rocket with wheels sitting on that belt. When that rocket fires, it's eventually going to rocket off the end of that belt...which means that it doesn't remain stationary to the ground and if it had wings, it would fly.

[ClimbToFL350]

No more BS people, here is the original question, no more word games.
Highlighted in red is proof that the plane will take off. here is why:
For the conveyor to start 'tracking the plane's speed'
the plane will actually have to move forward
So if the plane moves 10mph, the result would the be
the conveyor moving the opposite direction at 10mph.
So what we have is the plane Moving Forward at 10mph, and
The conveyor countering with an opposite movement of 10mph.
with a ground speed of the wheels at 20mph.
This is the same no matter what numbers you use, For Example:
150mph plane:
The plane Moving Forward at 150mph, and
The conveyor countering with an opposite movement of 150mph.
with a ground speed of the wheels at 300mph.
The thrust of the plane's engine will kick the shit out of the friction produced by the wheels every time, if it didn't NO PLANES COULD EVER TAKE OFF.
The Plane Takes off! screw you numbskulls that disagree, keep believing in Santa Claus while you're at it, I'm out! :D
PERFECT! Now lock the thread and go to bed!

[Some Kind Of Monster]

150mph plane:
The plane Moving Forward at 150mph, and
The conveyor countering with an opposite movement of 150mph.
with a ground speed of the wheels at 300mph.
I don't see how the plane has a ground speed of 300 mph if the plane is equal to the treadmill. The plane's groundspeed would be 150 if the tread mill is running 150. Somehow (going against stated rules) if the plane had a groundspeed of 300 and the treadmill is running 150, it would fly.

[hoolign]

SOME OTHER BASTARD USED THE TREADMILL TO!! :mad:
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42667&stc=1&d=1194502854

[Some Kind Of Monster]

I'm tired as hell. I'm going to bed. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong, but I don't see it. It is not possible with the stated rules.

[pw_Tony]

SOME OTHER BASTARD USED THE TREADMILL TO!! :mad:
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42667&stc=1&d=1194502854
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA

[MADDOG355]

I don't see how the plane has a ground speed of 300 mph if the plane is equal to the treadmill. The plane's groundspeed would be 150 if the tread mill is running 150. Somehow (going against stated rules) if the plane had a groundspeed of 300 and the treadmill is running 150, it would fly.
The wheel speed (not actual ground speed) is 300 becouse the planes actual speed is 150 and the tread mill is doing 150 in the other direction.

[ColeTR2]

Ground speed or what the wheels are doing has no bearing on when an airplane will fly. it's air speed that makes a plane fly period. A plane propels it self by the air going through the engines or props. It's not like a car that uses it wheels to move forward. So the wheels will just move faster with a treadmill going under them but the plane will still generate it forward momentum / Air speed with its engines.
Read this
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/instruments/q0210.shtml
Watch this video and picture the guy walk on a treadmill the wind is blowing hard enough to make the wing generate lift and start flying with no ground speed. if the wind started blowing harder it could take off and fly backwards
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5naItOmXSfQ

[Sleeper CP]

This is freakin funny. Some of the justification on the other thread has me rolling.
I know for a few of the "No, ain't gonna take off" voters that all of a sudden, they're gonna get it, like a light switch just got turned on.:D
Come on people! You just aren't thinking. The question stated that the conveyor would match the planes forward speed in reverse. If the plane is moving at 100mph the conveyor will be running backwards at 100mph. This doesn't mean the plane slows down at all. The wheels are just turning twice as fast. This story has been beat to death.
So if a plane crashes on the border of Canada and the US where do you bury the survivor's:confused: :o
Is that was this is:idea: :o
Got it with that as the senario, not relative to ground speed.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[hoolign]

So if a plane crashes on the border of Canada and the US where do you bury the servivor's:confused: :o
Is that was this is:idea: :o
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Those survivors are going to be pissed! :D

[clownpuncher]

I'm tired as hell. I'm going to bed. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong, but I don't see it. It is not possible with the stated rules.
LOL, don't lose any sleep over it. Actually, you won't be the first to admit you're wrong cuz, like 40 of us already admitted it for ya:D
BTW, it will work with the stated rules. :)

[MADDOG355]

Those survivors are going to be pissed! :D
Did someone tell the pilot thay tookoff on a treadmill? :rolleyes:

[OverKill]

No more BS people, here is the original question, no more word games.
Highlighted in red is proof that the plane will take off. here is why:
For the conveyor to start 'tracking the plane's speed'
the plane will actually have to move forward
So if the plane moves 10mph, the result would the be
the conveyor moving the opposite direction at 10mph.
So what we have is the plane Moving Forward at 10mph, and
The conveyor countering with an opposite movement of 10mph.
with a ground speed of the wheels at 20mph.
This is the same no matter what numbers you use, For Example:
150mph plane:
The plane Moving Forward at 150mph, and
The conveyor countering with an opposite movement of 150mph.
with a ground speed of the wheels at 300mph.
The thrust of the plane's engine will kick the shit out of the friction produced by the wheels every time, if it didn't NO PLANES COULD EVER TAKE OFF.
I would guess that it would take probably 10x, if not more, the speed of the plane on the conveyor to create enough friction to slow the plane down.
The Plane Takes off! screw you numbskulls that disagree, keep believing in Santa Claus while you're at it, I'm out! :D
Maybe if i simplify it for you, you will understand: imagine instead of a plane, you've got a rocket with wheels sitting on that belt. When that rocket fires, it's eventually going to rocket off the end of that belt...which means that it doesn't remain stationary to the ground and if it had wings, it would fly.
It wont kick its ass if the treadmills speed is the same as full thrust of the plane. Fine fire up the plane to max speed, lets say 500mph. Then fire up the treadmills motors to move the belts at 500mph, well over take off speed. Do you honestly think your gonna move forward with your max thrust to get lift under the wings.
OverKill

[Sleeper CP]

LOL, don't lose any sleep over it. Actually, you won't be the first to admit you're wrong cuz, like 40 of us already admitted it for ya:D BTW, it will work with the stated rules. :)
Over 1,700 views and only 80 votes. What a bunch of chickens:)
I stand corrected with the explanation.
Shouldn't assume more than is stated:o
Sleeper CP

[clownpuncher]

It wont kick its ass if the treadmills speed is the same as full thrust of the plane. Fine fire up the plane to max speed, lets say 500mph. Then fire up the treadmills motors to move the belts at 500mph, well over take off speed. Do you honestly think your gonna move forward with your max thrust to get lift under the wings.
OverKill
YES:D

[clownpuncher]

I'm out. All y'all have fun, and, for those of ya still saying "no"..........
.......Kiss my ass:D

[hoolign]

It wont kick its ass if the treadmills speed is the same as full thrust of the plane. Fine fire up the plane to max speed, lets say 500mph. Then fire up the treadmills motors to move the belts at 500mph, well over take off speed. Do you honestly think your gonna move forward with your max thrust to get lift under the wings.
OverKill
http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42669&stc=1&d=1194504446

[Troy McClure]

You guys are nuts...
So if a plane was on skids and on a VERY slippery frozen lake, You could put all the throttle into it and the plane would.......STAND STILL. THE wheels would have no traction on the ice and THEREFORE, no traction, no forward momentum = no fly.!!!!!
I've got it all figured out...:D :D :D
Oh, yea.... The plane will fly no matter what is underneath it going whatever speed.....makes no difference if its ice, water, asphalt OR a treadmill....:idea:

[MADDOG355]

It wont kick its ass if the treadmills speed is the same as full thrust of the plane. Fine fire up the plane to max speed, lets say 500mph. Then fire up the treadmills motors to move the belts at 500mph, well over take off speed. Do you honestly think your gonna move forward with your max thrust to get lift under the wings.
OverKill
If it takes all the thrust of the motor to turn to tires, Then how does it produce enough thrust to compensate for wind resistance on a normal runway?
:confused:

[EAZYKILLER2006]

Without the correct take off speed (lift) she's in the bushes! :D
WHEN WE FIND IT IN THE WEEDS CAN WE CALL KILRTOY?:confused:

[ColeTR2]

Picture this you are on a treadmill with roller-skates and there is a rope tide in front of you to the wall and you're holding on to it. The treadmill is running and your not going anywhere. Now your arms are like the engine on a plane. If you start pulling yourself forward with the rope you will move forward. it doesn't matter how fast the treadmill is running you propelling yourself with the rope. Just like a plane will propel itself with its prop and the density of the air. Your arms are like the prop and the air is like the rope.
It's that simple and if you don't get it. I'm sorry you have a low IQ LOL!

[OverKill]

I love ya all and I'm going to bed, I'm tired.
OverKill