I'm being Sued!!!

[gotboostedvr6]

Heres the deal I posted up a 1994 Suzuki for sale on craigslist.org I was contacted by the plaintiff saying he had a running but low compression 48 spl and wanted to trade for my running DT75 he would add $900. I informed him the motor ran but needed a carb cleaning, water pump, and "tuneup" ( plugs, wires, timing check ect.)
thread update:
after a 30 min trial and the judge asking a hundred questions I won the case. The plaintiff ended up changing his story and told the judge he never wanted the motor in the first place but he bought it on impulse and now cant install it. He admits that it is in good condition being a older salty motor and he has no proof it is older then I said it was. Case closed

[Parker Dreamin]

Do you want me to tell you what is going to happen or would you like to lose the lawsuit and a day in court learning for yourself?
spill it....

[DCBob]

Do you want me to tell you what is going to happen or would you like to lose the lawsuit and a day in court learning for yourself?
What he said!

[koyota93]

If it was me, I would probably just return his crap to avoid a headache.

[jkh04200]

If you knowingly mislead somebody you deserve more than you will probably get. If a man isn't worth his word he isn't a man at all

[mike37]

did you keep all your corespondents with him if you did and you can prove you told him every thing

[THOR]

Regardless of what SWB says, tell this guy to go fock himself. Tell him that you are well aware of the law and what goes into a lawsuit. That is, both of you will have to retain counsel and pay a retainer. Probably to the tune of 2K or so. Ask him if he is willing to do so. If so, then tell him that you are willing as well. Tell him you will retain counsel and get all your witnesses aligned. Fact witnesses, percipient witnesses (eye witness) and experts will be called and deposed prior to trial. All of this will cost a ton of money.
Fock this guy and his big balls unless you screwed him of course. ;)

[Sleeper CP]

Do you want me to tell you what is going to happen or would you like to lose the lawsuit and a day in court learning for yourself?
Ditto :D
That would be my take on it:idea: Someone is going to get their ass kicked in small claims court.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[THOR]

I'm about 99.5% on both The People's Court and Judge Judy, so you might want to consider returning his money.
I need your life SWB. You are one lucky mofo to sit and watch these shows all day.

[Miss Perfect]

Regardless of what SWB says, tell this guy to go fock himself. Tell him that you are well aware of the law and what goes into a lawsuit. That is, both of you will have to retain counsel and pay a retainer. Probably to the tune of 2K or so. Ask him if he is willing to do so. If so, then tell him that you are willing as well. Tell him you will retain counsel and get all your witnesses aligned. Fact witnesses, percipient witnesses (eye witness) and experts will be called and deposed prior to trial. All of this will cost a ton of money.
Fock this guy and his big balls.
Why would you retain counsel for small claims court?? :idea:
I think you should give the guy his stuff back and get yours back and go on with your day...IMHO.

[ssmike]

Guys, a $1100 dispute is a small claims court matter. No lawyers, no retainers, etc...
You will need to show up and explain your side of the story. Hopefully, you have something in writing to document what you say.
Good luck! If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask me.

[Parker Dreamin]

Hurry.....
Call LARRY H. Parker..........

[THOR]

I'm pretty sure that is small claims paperwork he posted.
You can do whatever you'd like, I'm just giving you the outcome beforehand. People helping people.
Whoops, I missed that part.
You are going to spend a day in court with a bad outcome then if you sold him a mismarked motor.

[OSidePat]

Regardless of what SWB says, tell this guy to go fock himself. Tell him that you are well aware of the law and what goes into a lawsuit. That is, both of you will have to retain counsel and pay a retainer. Probably to the tune of 2K or so. Ask him if he is willing to do so. If so, then tell him that you are willing as well. Tell him you will retain counsel and get all your witnesses aligned. Fact witnesses, percipient witnesses (eye witness) and experts will be called and deposed prior to trial. All of this will cost a ton of money.
Fock this guy and his big balls unless you screwed him of course. ;)
Boy remind me to NOT send any of my kids to Auburn University first of all its small claims court ie no lawyers why would you stick up for an ahole like that who tried to rip someone off

[gotboostedvr6]

The motor was in great shape for being an 94 and it ran fine. i made it clear to him and his brother that he would have to do maintenance to it before he ran it.
here is a quick timeline
next day:
he called the next day and said he cant figure out how to install the controls and he will have to bring it to the dealer
that night:
he called and said hes pissed b/c the dealer wants $900 to do a full installation, so he will have his brother do it for less...
2nd day:
he called and said he might have to return it b/c hes brother cant figure it out... i told him to go on craigslist and find a mobile marine mechanic to do it for way less he said fine...
7 days later
his brother called me and said he doesn't want to deal with it and wants me to "stop by and bring his motor" so he can get his money back
i said im not walmart and cant just take "returns" besides i told him it was sold "as is". not to mention the only reason i sold it was to cover my payment for classes.
my last advice to him was to buy a manual and grow a sac

[ULTRA26 # 1]

If the buyer has documentation to substantiate that the motor is a 1988, and you represented it as a 1994, you will lose in Small Claims. It's fairly simple.

[mike37]

If the buyer has documentation to substantiate that the motor is a 1988, and you represented it as a 1994, you will lose in Small Claims. It's fairly simple.
not if he has papers saying it was sold to him as a 94

[squirt'nmyload]

so is the motor an '88 or '94......if you were wrong in telling him the year, then i'd just give the dude his stuff back and call it a day...unless you think going through all the bullshit to fight it would be worth it .

[gotboostedvr6]

also since when does a midsection determine what year a motor was? the powerhead and lower clearly are 94 vintage.
he brought his brother with him before he bought it they were very happy with it i even offered to run it and they declined.

[gotboostedvr6]

he doesnt have an expert witness if they dont stand in front of the judge hes just bitching b/c he cant figure out how to install a jap motor.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

not if he has papers saying it was sold to him as a 94
If the motor is truly a 1988, and I sold it as an 94 BOS or no BOS, I would want to try and defend it.
The motor number will tell it's true age.

[gotboostedvr6]

so what you are saying is if you replace parts on a motor with older parts the age of the motor will increase?

[Sleeper CP]

Regardless of what SWB says, tell this guy to go fock himself. Tell him that you are well aware of the law and what goes into a lawsuit. That is, both of you will have to retain counsel and pay a retainer. Probably to the tune of 2K or so. Ask him if he is willing to do so. If so, then tell him that you are willing as well. Tell him you will retain counsel and get all your witnesses aligned. Fact witnesses, percipient witnesses (eye witness) and experts will be called and deposed prior to trial. All of this will cost a ton of money.
Fock this guy and his big balls unless you screwed him of course. ;)
There's one in every crowd:mad:
Sleeper CP

[THOR]

There's one in every crowd:mad:
Sleeper CP
One what?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

so what you are saying is if you replace parts on a motor with older parts the age of the motor will increase?
Try and make some sense of of this comment for the rest of us.

[THOR]

An SEC fan. :D
That is what I thought he meant.

[gotboostedvr6]

so how do you determine how old something is?
the parts that dont move or the parts that do move...
the "engine", trim unit and "lower" are 94 the mid section is a 88
what year is the motor?

[THOR]

[QUOTE=gotboostedvr6;2890987]so how do you determine how old something is?
QUOTE]
I thought that is why there are serial numbers.

[gotboostedvr6]

also how often do outboards have all the parts match each other in age and total run time?

[ColeTR2]

Is the power head a 94 and the lower unit is a 88 ? if you said the motor is a 1994 then you where not being deceptive. I'd argue that he wants his money back because he doesn't know how to install the engine. Did you say in writing sold as is?

[gotboostedvr6]

there are serial numbers on the powerhead and the mid they do not match which one actually determines the year

[Parker Dreamin]

What does the serial # say it is ?
My truck is a 2004, if I put a 2006 motor in.. How would I list my truck for sale ?

[gotboostedvr6]

the only item on the outboard that is 88 is the midsection the original midsection was damaged when someone cut holes in it to make it louder

[Havasu1986]

so how do you determine how old something is?
the parts that dont move or the parts that do move...
the "engine", trim unit and "lower" are 94 the mid section is a 88
what year is the motor?
Split the difference. It's a 91'. :D

[ULTRA26 # 1]

What does the serial # say it is ?
My truck is a 2004, if I put a 2006 motor in.. How would I list my truck for sale ?
As a 2004

[gotboostedvr6]

I'm going to have to bring a poster of what makes up an outboard and how all the pieces interlock to create a working piece to show the judge why it is such an unimportant part of the puzzle

[Oldsquirt]

the only item on the outboard that is 88 is the midsection the original midsection was damaged when someone cut holes in it to make it louder
You probably should have advertised it as a "94 with an 88 mid-section". That would have been enough to cover your ass. Now what you need to do is get an outboard specialist to provide documentation stating that the 88 midsection is functionally identical to, and a legitimate service replacement for, a 94 midsection.

[Miss Perfect]

so how do you determine how old something is?
the parts that dont move or the parts that do move...
the "engine", trim unit and "lower" are 94 the mid section is a 88
what year is the motor?
Remember that you are going before a judge that most likely will not have a clue about motors. They will see the statement from the other guys shop that says it is an 88 and they will go with it. The judge will not want to hear your explanation about moving parts vs not moving parts.
Again, save yourself the aggravation and give him his stuff back.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

the only item on the outboard that is 88 is the midsection the original midsection was damaged when someone cut holes in it to make it louder
You needed to disclose this. Your case has holes.

[gotboostedvr6]

These guys obviously have been messing with the motor when trying to install it and i have no idea if they screwed up something along the way.
Would you take back a 300x from a guy that has had problems installing it for 7 days?
or currently a motor that has been manhandled for the past 5 months and god only knows what its been through.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Remember that you are going before a judge that most likely will not have a clue about motors. They will see the statement from the other guys shop that says it is an 88 and they will go with it. The judge will not want to hear your explanation about moving parts vs not moving parts.
Again, save yourself the aggravation and give him his stuff back.
Great advice

[502 JET]

so how do you determine how old something is?
the parts that dont move or the parts that do move...
the "engine", trim unit and "lower" are 94 the mid section is a 88
what year is the motor?
When you sold the engine or traded or what ever....
Did you/or your ad, lead the guy to believe he was buying a '94' vintage motor? OR did your ad say it was a piece together of mixed years?
Are you even sure what you were selling?
Course, regardless of what it was the buyer should have determined all that before he went through with the deal. AS IS where is....DUH!
:idea: You can file a counter claim. Maybe this traded engine wasn't all the plaintiff said it was.
Why not invite the plaintiff here to argue his side of the case? Or since you left your name on the complaint he can copy this thread and use this against you in court.:jawdrop::D

[Parker Dreamin]

If you had not spent the money then give it back........ now you are ****ed, good luck bud.
You know you only have a 50% chance of coming home a winner, just like he does.

[thatguy]

Sorry, You will lose no way around it. Judges do not care about working parts or moving parts. A 1994 anything is a 1994 anything. Not some of this or that. At the very least, if anything goes in your favor, He will split it somehow.
Small claims are not trials, there will be no nitpicking like on Judge Judy. If the whole thing is not a 1994, YOU WILL LOSE.
Tommy

[gotboostedvr6]

so lets get this straight a 00 civic hatch has a 96 door on it and all is in safe working condition.
the vin number on the replaced door says 96 the car is a 00 does this have to be disclosed?

[ColeTR2]

The engine is what generates the power.. sounds like you where not deceptive. The engine is the engine and the drivetrain & transmission is not the engine. If it had a 1988 prop on it could he sue you? NO the prop is not the engine. Tell him to pound sand....He just wants his money back because he can't just bolt it on to his boat. Best to referrer to the powerhead as a engine not a motor.. motors are mostly electric

[gotboostedvr6]

I also made it clear to him i had replaced alot of parts when i bought it because it had been kept in saltwater and ran by a fellow whom didn't believe in fresh water washdowns. He never asked for me to be more specific so i didn't get into details.
I left it with him the motor runs, you need to some work on before you run offshore, and i also made it clear it was sold as is.

[Classic Daycruiser]

You need to respond to the claim, Ask for further clairification from the suzuki dealer in writting. Then you can get further clairifacation from the mechanic that inspected the motor. Get his statement as to how he thinks you mis represented the item you sold (Show him the craigs list ad). Ask him what fair market value is for your motor. Ask him to put it in writting.
You may be in the right if you can show the judge that you also followed up and talked with his expert witness. His expert did not see a problem with using a 1988 mid-section on a 1994 motor. That the real problem he saw with the motor were???
Do you have any receipts from the mid section swap? Was it professionally installed?
If you sold him junk, then you owe him.

[Miss Perfect]

I also made it clear to him i had replaced alot of parts when i bought it because it had been kept in saltwater and ran by a fellow whom didn't believe in fresh water washdowns. He never asked for me to be more specific so i didn't get into details.
I left it with him the motor runs, you need to some work on before you run offshore, and i also made it clear it was sold as is.
Do you have proof or is that just what you told him? Without proof, you are pretty much screwed. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

[PHOTOGLOU]

What does the serial # say it is ?
My truck is a 2004, if I put a 2006 motor in.. How would I list my truck for sale ?
well are you selling the truck with a motor or a motor that includes a truck?????

[Sleeper CP]

One what?
Well let's see....:idea:
Regardless of what SWB says, tell this guy to go fock himself. Tell him that you are well aware of the law and what goes into a lawsuit. That is, both of you will have to retain counsel and pay a retainer. Probably to the tune of 2K or so. Ask him if he is willing to do so. If so, then tell him that you are willing as well. Tell him you will retain counsel and get all your witnesses aligned. Fact witnesses, percipient witnesses (eye witness) and experts will be called and deposed prior to trial. All of this will cost a ton of money.
Fock this guy and his big balls unless you screwed him of course. ;)
Why would you retain counsel for small claims court?? :idea:
I think you should give the guy his stuff back and get yours back and go on with your day...IMHO.
I'm pretty sure that is small claims paperwork he posted.
You can do whatever you'd like, I'm just giving you the outcome beforehand. People helping people.
Add me to that, I think everyone else understood it to be small claims court.
Secondly, not trying to pick a fight with you, but somethings just aren't worth fighting over. Your dig your heals in "fock him "attitude doesn't seem very productive.
The complaint spelled out that the engine was not what it was represented to be. Ignore the fact that the guy and his brother(we found out after my statement) don't know what they are doing. That is beside the point. The fact is the engine is not what he represented, that is a problem for him. A real big problem. If it is the fact he obviously needs to weigh the time,energy and effort it will take to fight this instead of comming to terms with the guy.
Has he stated yet what he did with the trade engine? Does he still have it or the money to give back to the guy?
(I reserve the right to edit if something is not clear)
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[gotboostedvr6]

I have the blown up and seized 48 spl he said ran still but was low compression
I also can get the money but I'm a full time student and don't work. So this is going to hurt me. The money i have is loan money and the semester is almost up so that means no check till jan 30 so ill have no money from now till then if this case goes downhill.
What this is going to come down to is do i have to disclose all parts on the motor.... i mean everything like different heads? different carbs? does it still run correctly and in spec and if it does, do the items that were replaced change the year of the engine? what percentage of the engine has been changed
What percentage of the engine is 94?, 88?
One part was changed with an donor part, some parts were brand new from dealer but the foken engine is a 94 and it runs good and thats all that matters.

[shueman]

Sounds like you stiffed the guy and did not respond when he called to reverse the deal....your gonna loose, either way...:)

[HemiDude]

Hello,
I only do litigation I can win and phock my client over as well as the opposition. Sorry, your case sucks.
Sincerely,
Larry H. Parker
:idea:
Hurry.....
Call LARRY H. Parker..........

[HemiDude]

Best advisr award goes to...SML....
so is the motor an '88 or '94......if you were wrong in telling him the year, then i'd just give the dude his stuff back and call it a day...unless you think going through all the bullshit to fight it would be worth it .

[Sleeper CP]

I have the blown up and seized 48 spl he said ran still but was low compression
I also can get the money but I'm a full time student and don't work. So this is going to hurt me. The money i have is loan money and the semester is almost up so that means no check till jan 30 so ill have no money from now till then if this case goes downhill.
Sorry that you find yourself in this situation, I don't think any of us are saying you deliberatley screwed the guy. It's just a bad situation you find yourself in and I would bet on SWB and thayguy that as stated you would lose your case.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Moneypitt]

You probably should have advertised it as a "94 with an 88 mid-section". That would have been enough to cover your ass. Now what you need to do is get an outboard specialist to provide documentation stating that the 88 midsection is functionally identical to, and a legitimate service replacement for, a 94 midsection.
Yeah, what he said....Do you have a hot girlfriend? Or know a super hot chick that would go with you to court?:idea: ........Let HER:sqeyes: explain it to the judge.....:D :D :D ...There have been numerous studies done on the out come of situations based on the attractiveness of the particapants......MP
Oh, and post the pics after you win.........

[OCMerrill]

I will share a small story here...
I sold an International Scout II back about 6 years ago. I missed one feature and placed it in the add claiming it had a Dana 300 transfer case (4x4). The guy that bought it crawled under and over the thing for two days before he cut loose with the whopping $2,800 we agreed on. As is no refund or other was on the Bill of sale.
About a year later he calls me and tells me that it never had a Dana 300 and I miss represented the sale. Even thought he could have swapped it out. When he showed up at my house and I inspected it there was indeed a D-20 and not the D-300 that should have originally been there. I told him I would give him $150 which was 1/2 of what a good used D-300 would cost just to make him go away. I did feel a bit in the wrong.
He told me to FO and he was suing me for like $4k with expenses, lost time, etc. We went to court and the Judge listened to him and then my turn came. I told him I offered $150 as a good faith gesture a year later that the buyer did not accept.
Without even 1 min passing after I finished my explanation the Judge asks the buyer if he could read? "Do you see as is?" He told the guy he should have taken the gift of $150.
He told the buyer to better inspect his purchases in the future. He then asked if this Scout runs and drives. The buyer said yes...the the Judge said "Why are we even here then"...NEXT.......
So I am thinking that if the Engine runs well just maybe you have a small chance of not getting the total shaft.

[jkh04200]

I have sold all kinds of chit over they years and never ever once have I had a problem looking the guy in the face a week even a year later.
Its all about morals and values. You screwed him and you know it. Be a man, to hell with courts and the law. Do what is right and quit trying to justify your lack of values.

[DelawareDave]

Correct me if I am wrong, but on an outboard motor, isn't the factory ID tag, with serial number, attached to the mid-section? And isn't that what is generally accepted as the outboard's identification? It seems to me that it is the only outwardly visible ID, and if the C/G or marine patrol inspect it, that is what they look at.

[R.A.D.man]

Correct me if I am wrong, but on an outboard motor, isn't the factory ID tag, with serial number, attached to the mid-section? And isn't that what is generally accepted as the outboard's identification? It seems to me that it is the only outwardly visible ID, and if the C/G or marine patrol inspect it, that is what they look at.
On the outboard I own now, the ID tag is located on both the powerhead stamped into a freeze plug and on the midsection with an ID tag (Mercury), not sure if his is the same, but it likely is if someone else made the determination that the pieces are of different year. I think he would have a chance if he can prove that the midsection used to replace the original is a like item and functionally equal. That might be hard if he does not have the numbers recorded and available to him since the other guy will likely not share the information now.

[Some Kind Of Monster]

That is a very good example. Probably a better example would be a 2004 truck and a 1998 motor. You would have to disclose that to a buyer or face the same problem.
An even better example might be a 2004 with 1998 wheels or body panels.

[Jbb]

Im suing Tom Brown......on account of he just pisses me off...:mad:

[WYRD]

So Kachina Ken is looking for some outboards for his new project:confused: :D

[Some Kind Of Monster]

You might have a chance considering it was such an insignificant part, however I would just give him the $ and his junk back and sell yours to someone else. :idea:

[Mandelon]

Maybe you should try to get on Judge Judy or Judge Joe or one of those shows. They pay for it if you lose! :D

[topless]

Maybe you should try to get on Judge Judy or Judge Joe or one of those shows. They pay for it if you lose! :DI agree but the sale was as is and since he did NOT sell it under fraudulent means, it is the buyers responsibility to inspect the part before the sale is final. (I saw that on The Peoples Court so I'm an expert) :D

[4trax]

I agree but the sale was as is and since he did NOT sell it under fraudulent means, it is the buyers responsibility to inspect the part before the sale is final. (I saw that on The Peoples Court so I'm an expert) :D
Ditto! ( AS IS ) Buyers fault for looking it over and agreeing to what was said and looked at. Been there done that. Signed receipt by buyer and seller saying AS IS is all you need.

[roostwear]

Where the copy of the ad? THAT's what a judge will want to see first.

[Troy McClure]

Ditto! ( AS IS ) Buyers fault for looking it over and agreeing to what was said and looked at. Been there done that. Signed receipt by buyer and seller saying AS IS is all you need.
I'm not sure what you typed here as I can't stop looking at your avatar.......:D

[HDF WATERDOG]

For Sale '07 GMC pick-up. $75000 firm. Please ignoir the fact that the VIN, block #s, licence plates say it's a '75. I bought all '07 parts for it. Get my point. That "old" ID number is year that motor is period. That's all the judge is going to see. Your gonna get hammered with a gavel.

[Sleeper CP]

I also made it clear to him i had replaced alot of parts when i bought it because it had been kept in saltwater and ran by a fellow whom didn't believe in fresh water washdowns. He never asked for me to be more specific so i didn't get into details.
I left it with him the motor runs, you need to some work on before you run offshore, and i also made it clear it was sold as is.
Ditto! ( AS IS ) Buyers fault for looking it over and agreeing to what was said and looked at. Been there done that. Signed receipt by buyer and seller saying AS IS is all you need.
If he has a signed receipt that says "as is " it might help but he hasn't said that he has one. Maybe he does?.
Also, as the buyer purchasing a car "as is" and expecting to work on it is one thing, buying a car that is sold as a 1992 Mustang and then finding out it is a re-skinned 1988 maybe something different all together.:idea:
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[thatguy]

Maybe you should try to get on Judge Judy or Judge Joe or one of those shows. They pay for it if you lose! :D
A buddy of mine went on Joe Brown this year on a damage to property case.
He had what seemed a clear cut case and only did it because the guy he sued would not respond. Being on TV got the other guy to put the pipe down and go.
Once before Joe, however, my buddy got ridiculed and slammed hard. Ended up not getting shit and looking like a complete fool. Joe gave the other guy all the money for a counterclaim.
Still, he aint as bad as Judge Judy.
Tommy
PS- I still think you will lose on false rep., but you never know. If it's worth the gamble go for it. Seems like a lot of hassle when you could really just re-sell it.

[topless]

This is why the judge shows are so entertaining, because most people don't have a clue about the law. As is does not cover misrepresentation.Not only that but the TV show pays not you so if you lose, you really don't lose anyway.

[gotboostedvr6]

after a 30 min trial and the judge asking a hundred questions I won the case. The plaintiff ended up changing his story and told the judge he never wanted the motor in the first place but he bought it on impulse and now cant install it. He admits that it is in good condition being a older salty motor and he has no proof it is older then I said it was. Case closed

[sunsoaker8]

Glad to see you took the time and effort to fight this and came out on top. If more people and insurance companies would fight these lawsuits it might just slow the stupid shit down. Good for you.. glad to hear you came out on top.

[Ken F]

Now turn around and sue him for "unjust enrichment" as he got something better than he thought he was buying.
That would keep this BS going for another 8 weeks.

[RitcheyRch]

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear you won.

[Moneypitt]

Anyone else get a vision of the special olympics.........Even if you win, you're..............

[gotboostedvr6]

Kinda annoying that i had to do downtown and waste a day doing this.
I'm glad the judge asked him to repeat his answers to questions that were asked 20 min prior... he tripped on his own words and changed the story 2 times before he admitted he was wrong.
I'm half tempted to offer him half or so the money in return of the motor.
I'll just resell it to someone who can handle it. This time I'll include a bill of sale lol